Hiring Top Talent on a Startup Budget (What Actually Works)

Added: 2026-05-24

[00:00:01]Culture only takes you so far with talent. Do you agree?

[00:00:06]>> No. No. No.

[00:00:07]>> You don't agree?

[00:00:07]>> No. No. No. When I'm talking about culture, it's not some nice sounding thing. I'm talking about people who will go there, who are committed, >> who are committed, who have a can do spirit and say, don't worry, this isn't working. Let's try this. Cuz some people say, oh, which is more important, competence or or capability? as in whether it's the the culture they're bringing. I say it's culture first because if you draw a two by two, you need someone who is fully competent and fully committed.

[00:00:38]>> Yes, that's the ideal scenario.

[00:00:39]>> That's the ideal scenario. But as an early stage entrepreneur, you may not always be able to get fully committed, fully competent. Therefore, be ready to shift your expectations. When do you use performance improvement plans pip and when do you simply say you know what tomorrow please drop your laptop drop your ID and it's been great >> we hire for technical skills right and that spark but I've seen us fire more for behavioral infringement >> than poor performance Welcome to Periscope, the podcast that allows you scale your idea from zero to 100. We discuss a range of topics on this show from fundraising, financing, marketing, tech, HR, legal, and all the messy bits in between. This is the show where you will learn everything that you need to take your amazing idea from start all the way through to scale. I am Lola and I am the host of the show today and with me I have Abin Ba. You want to introduce yourself briefly Abin Ba?

[00:02:01]>> Hi Lana, nice to be here with you. My name is Abin Baing. I am a pharmacist, but right now I'm the founder and CEO of Advantage Health Africa.

[00:02:13]>> You know, I love that you have blended pharmacy and business, which you don't find very often, and I'm curious to know how or why you decided to go down that road.

[00:02:26]So I think that business or entrepreneurship or uh things that create value and turn into profit that is how we will sustainably solve African problems. When I say African it could apply to any other continent but I'm African and I need to focus here. So I see many social issues yet I understand that if you twist the same issue around or flip the coin you might see an opportunity there.

[00:03:01]>> Now many times we want to solve those problems with some interventions and they're beautiful. They're well intended but to solve it sustainably >> why don't we go through the angle of a business something that will >> so for profit >> it's for profit it's commercial and it can have a life of its own that would even surprise the initiator in such a manner that it will resoundedly solve the problem and also be you know be meaningful for you so I I I'm all for business I'm so sold out to business in education, business in agri, business in healthcare.

[00:03:43]>> Any sector you can think of that is still underdeveloped in Africa is crying out for business solutions. I'm not saying you must come and be a scavenger >> or you must come and be exploitative, but you must find what is the angle here that is calling for a business, >> a solution that is sustainable.

[00:04:06]>> And we're going to unpack that when we get to the deeper conversation.

[00:04:11]>> But clearly, we also know that in business, you can't do it alone.

[00:04:15]>> You need a team around you.

[00:04:17]>> And at the very early stages, you often may not be able to afford that team.

[00:04:21]right? For whatever reason, right, they're way beyond your budget. You're not able to retain even those that you that you hire into the business. And that's a big topic. So, our topic for the show today is hiring top talent on a budget. And I'm curious to just very quickly get your thoughts on how you've been able to do that or some observations that you've seen uh in your day-to-day hiring your team for Advantage Health Africa.

[00:04:52]>> First of all, Lala, I'm a very lucky person.

[00:04:54]>> Okay, I am lucky. So, you might you might find that I am not able to fully articulate how come I've made a success of this. I will attempt to but the fundamental is to know that this is one of my blessings.

[00:05:12]>> I attract good people.

[00:05:14]>> I attract curious people. I attract people who have a can do spirit.

[00:05:20]>> Honestly, if you giving me people with that mix, I'm good because the competence will then come because we then roll up our sleeves and figure it out how to do. But I need those ingredients initially.

[00:05:33]>> So you help them figure it out. We work alongside them to learn >> together to figure it out cuz I haven't >> they're not doing their jobs because that's a whole another, you know, but you know, kettle of fish if you then have to basically do their jobs for them to allow them learn it.

[00:05:51]>> It's tempting. It's a temptation all of us struggle with.

[00:05:54]>> Yeah.

[00:05:55]>> We all want to do because we're like, you know, do it this way. You you don't want to micromanage, but you're almost tempted to micromanage. So I I I have learned how not to micromanage. I may be able to talk to to you about that. But in I'm intentional about getting those three perspectives first of all >> particularly someone who comes with a can do spirit who is not daunted by it's never been done before >> and so we can't figure it out.

[00:06:22]>> We can't figure it out.

[00:06:23]>> So the mindset is so important.

[00:06:25]>> Mindset first. Mindset first. And maybe I'm blind to those who have not come with that mindset. But I think almost everyone has come with that mindset to the point that I'm almost aware that come on this person has just come there must be a project this person is coming to do. It came to that point that if I met you Lola and I hear you you begin to find an interest in my business and I can see those three qualities. I'm like, hm, what's Lola here to come to do? Something is happening that we leveraging what she's bringing in to that for the business.

[00:07:02]>> Incredible. So, that's a very much a pull strategy, >> right? Versus you actively going out to source. Do you actively source for talent?

[00:07:12]>> Now, we do.

[00:07:13]>> Okay.

[00:07:13]>> Now, we do. So, >> based off of your size and off of >> based off of size and where we're operating in. So, Advantage Health Africa gets medicines to people all across the country. We have the direct to consumer where we leverage over a,000ies.

[00:07:31]>> Amazing. Over a,000 pharmacies.

[00:07:34]>> So, we pick their inventory and get it to the last mile. But we also have our own workforce, a sales team that goes out to ensure that products that are ours, franchised to us, get to the very last mile, get to the hospitals, get to the pharmacy. So that work force is important.

[00:07:53]>> To support that workforce, we've got a central team.

[00:07:56]>> Sophia based in Lagos.

[00:07:58]>> Yeah. Based in Lagos. So we are we're over 100 now.

[00:08:02]>> Oh, incredible. And for us, we've grown to a point where I'm not I'm not the only one involved in recruiting. There are others. I come from the perspective that I don't have to be the only one in recruiting.

[00:08:17]Those who I have charged with that responsibility know what we're looking for.

[00:08:21]>> They know the mindset. they know that oh is this person going to fit into the culture because AHA we have a distinct culture and we can hire you for technical skills but just be mindful that we're also looking for a fit >> right >> and so when you do come in we know that you must fit otherwise you you you find your way out >> I really love the point you just made because founders sometimes hire for competence and forget the fact that fit culture synergy is so important >> oh yes >> there's is >> so I put fit first >> from the very first >> ahead of competence even >> I put fit first >> it's so important otherwise I won't sleep and I like sleep >> I love my sleep I love peace I love calmness >> I have this calm energy so I know people can destroy that energy >> therefore I need to have people that I am happy with to know that look they're good. Even if they misbehave, >> I know often that I would attack it first from a misbehavior, from a lack of knowledge >> from some improper values >> that we should address, not sweep under the carpet.

[00:09:38]>> So, I give you an example. Earlier today, we had teamwide meeting and someone had misbehaved with a senior manager >> and I said, "Okay, no problem. bring it to my attention for the teamwide meeting and at the meeting we had done all the operational meet um discussions towards the end we were going to have a culture series we call it culture series >> okay and you have that every week during your >> every two weeks >> every two weeks okay during the team meeting >> during that team meeting it's 10 minutes for anyone who's been picked randomly to come to speak about one of our six core values I said excuse me excuse me before we go there I need to bring this up. So I brought it up and I brought my whole force that we don't do that here. You know, I spoke all the grammar, all the English. You would have been proud of me.

[00:10:30]And I said it all. Then someone called me after and said his wife was listening, but I didn't say who exist you. I said Kai, I missed that. I should have added that to who exist you. Why do you think it is all right for you to behave in this manner? We don't do that here. So I put that in because it's our culture.

[00:10:50]>> Once you allow bad behavior to continue, what you're essentially doing is you are rotten.

[00:10:58]>> Correct. You're corrupting the core.

[00:11:00]>> You are corrupting it. So I thanked the person who brought it to my attention because some will say why did you go and tell I hate that. The person who brought it to my attention likes celebrated.

[00:11:12]Yes.

[00:11:13]>> Likes me wants the best for my family.

[00:11:15]what's the best for this business who is eager to make sure we're growing.

[00:11:21]>> So if you're hiding and covering things, then you are not going for the best.

[00:11:26]>> And you might think you're tackling it, that's fine. I want you to be enabled to tackle. But please surface the issue.

[00:11:34]Don't overlook them and don't sweep them under the carpet. Bring them up. let us tackle it so that a person who misbehave might actually have a reset and say, "Oh, they don't talk like that here."

[00:11:46]>> Yes. So, let's make sure that I >> that person will become a better person.

[00:11:51]>> Fantastic. There's a lot for us to deep dive during this episode. We'll talk about culture, about fit, about attracting folks with the right energy for your business and affording those people as well. Again, my name is Lola and our topic today is hiring top talent on a budget.

[00:12:14]>> I think if you can't pay top n, you can still hire the right people cuz I have discovered that it's not just about money.

[00:12:22]>> So, if it's not just about money, what else is it about? Can't wait to hear more on how best to hire top talent for your business. Let's get started.

[00:12:38]Cascador is our partner making today's conversation possible. If you are a mid-stage founder, then Cascador is for you. It's an intensive program that combines education, leadership, mentorship, and access to a $2 million catalytic fund to allow you scale your business. Whether you're looking to refine your leadership, pressure test your ideas, or get connected to a community of advisors, Cascador is the place to allow you do that. Apply for the next Cascador program at cascad.org.

[00:13:15]So, our topic today is how to hire top talent on a budget. And I have a very special guest that would break this down for us. How to attract the right people for the right culture, the right feed, clearly the right compensation package, not just money just as we had mentioned earlier. I mean, pleasure to have you here.

[00:13:37]>> My pleasure to be here.

[00:13:39]>> You started your business 9 years ago.

[00:13:43]So, it's been a journey for sure.

[00:13:46]Let's talk about those initial early hires, right? The first two, three, four, five people that helped kick this off with you.

[00:13:56]>> I think the very first person, Olawali, >> you remember him very clearly?

[00:14:01]>> Of course I do.

[00:14:02]>> Is he still with you?

[00:14:03]>> No, not any longer. But not working with me, but still in my periphery.

[00:14:08]>> Amazing. Um, Olawale came because I had gone to speak somewhere and for some reason he missed what I was saying and afterwards he saw a lot of people coming behind to ask for my card. He said, "Let me grab your card." And somehow he reached out within weeks to say, "I see you're doing so and so. How can I help?"

[00:14:30]That was very uncommon.

[00:14:30]>> Amazing. Yes. Actually, >> it it was very uncommon and just reaching out to ask how can I help?

[00:14:38]Incidentally, I had something he could help with >> and I needed him to go somewhere, help me get a database and so on. And I sent 5,000 NRA to him at that time, you know, did the work and wanted to send the change to me.

[00:14:54]>> That's so unusual.

[00:14:55]>> So, I was wanting change or 5K, you know. So, >> well, 5K 9 years ago is not the same 5K today. So, we should also just put that down.

[00:15:05]>> Lola was still he stood out. Yeah.

[00:15:08]>> And then I had another one. Then I told him, you know what?

[00:15:14]Then he said he needed a full certain place. You can go and work there. And he started working there for them. They liked him.

[00:15:23]>> But months in, I then said, "Are you still interested in working with me?"

[00:15:28]>> And he left and came to work. So that was my number one hire >> and Olawale was very young, but I I I promote a firstname basis. So both of us would go from pharmacy to pharmacy and they would hear him calling me Abima and they very curious.

[00:15:44]>> He could pass as my son but I regarded him as a full-time staff >> staff member. So that respect is very key on both sides.

[00:15:53]>> Yes, I respected him. Of course he would do his work. He would write his notes.

[00:15:58]>> Not the standard I was used to but you can see he's clearly put some thought >> into this work and he was growing rapidly. M >> when he then said he was going to serve, I was like, "Oh, you've not served, >> you know, I didn't."

[00:16:14]>> So, you did not check that even, right?

[00:16:17]Cuz that wasn't a top priority for you.

[00:16:19]It was more about the person and the ability to actually get the job done versus certifications, NYC degrees, and >> let me let me shock you. I don't know what he studied.

[00:16:31]>> Wow.

[00:16:33]>> I have several people. In fact, I had someone in HR and the first day I realized she was an architect. I had to do a double, you know, so how did I miss this? Because somehow that part of my brain is more or less just sorted that people come in different shapes and form >> and I'm open to that variety. I'm open to that diversity. It is clear to me for maybe from where I worked cuz getting into Accenture, one thing that stood out for me when I heard about the place was they take anybody from Euroba to neuroscience.

[00:17:09]>> So >> I could fit in there as a pharmacist.

[00:17:12]>> As a pharmacist >> and somehow it rewired my brain that that wasn't top priority. Now if I need a specific role like a pharmacist of course >> or a finance person >> or a finance person but we even have some people in finance who have learned to then earn their their their icon >> on the jobification but there are roles now that okay we're more specific about so we hire for that but generally the background doesn't quite >> so let me push on that point which is you're hiring talent that is learning on the job and in some cases even getting certified on the job. You know, if I think about a finance person for example, are you saying that they already have the skills but but may not have the stamp or you're saying that even if they don't necessarily have the skills, if they have the right personality, the right approach, willingness to work, eagerness, you would take them on board and be patient with them to learn that skill set.

[00:18:16]It is that what? Let me qualify it.

[00:18:18]>> Yes, please.

[00:18:20]>> It is all that.

[00:18:22]>> See, if you do the work of defining what you need, >> you'll be able to break it down to clear expectations.

[00:18:33]>> If what I need here is curiosity, ability to sift, ability to consolidate, ability to follow up and so on, those things are not tied to a degree. M. Now if in finance I need someone who has clear understanding of all the IFRs, all the rules. Yes, I need that. And it might come from you being certified as a CFA or >> a charted account, whatever else it is.

[00:18:59]>> But if what I need from you is bookkeeping, keeping the numbers, making sure they are readily available, they're updated daily or regular periodically, >> then it is not the degree. someone with a math background, someone with >> an analytical mindset, >> analytical mindset can do that just as well.

[00:19:17]>> Absolutely. And in the early stages of setting up a business, you cannot afford to overload your pay your pay your pay bracket >> payroll, >> your payroll with heavy heavy heaters.

[00:19:33]>> You can't afford it. M >> and then sometimes at the early stages you would undercompensate with work and then undercompensate with money which is why I have the philosophy it's not just about money >> you would undercompensate >> with work >> with work >> and then undercompensate with money >> with money >> for work you must give people what is befeitting to their capacity >> if at an early stage I just need 10% of you you can't throw in your all >> because then my business isn't quite fit or suited for your capacity.

[00:20:11]>> So in that case you'd hire them in a fractional role or you not hire them at all?

[00:20:15]>> I hire two types of people.

[00:20:16]>> Okay.

[00:20:17]>> I hire people who can come in with a lot of oomph, a lot of um interest but can't be full-time. So I define what I need.

[00:20:27]Remember I said if you know what you need, I define what I need and I say I need you to deliver this like a consultant. and I pay you based on your consultancy.

[00:20:37]>> So it's more or less I've outsourced that to the person that person is not a full-time staff.

[00:20:44]>> That's fully transparent. So it's it's not a case where >> it's transparent and I also need to know >> to know the what else is going on with them. So you could also manage your responsibilities and expectations from them.

[00:20:56]>> Yes. In managing expectations, managing what's going on around them. I know they have a full-time job or another part-time thing or they're just not able to fully commit.

[00:21:06]>> So I must dimension the work into bits that we can measure that you have done well. And I actually tell a lot of entrepreneurs this cuz some people say which is more important competence or or capability as in whether it's the the culture they're bringing. I say it's culture first because if you draw a 2 by two, you need someone who is fully competent and fully committed.

[00:21:31]>> Yes, that's the ideal scenario.

[00:21:32]>> That's the ideal scenario. But as an early stage in entrepreneur, you may not always be able to get fully committed, fully competent.

[00:21:42]>> Therefore, be ready to shift your expectations.

[00:21:45]>> You would have some people who are fully competent but are partially committed.

[00:21:50]Pay for that. M >> understand that I had people who will do some capacity building sessions and that's all they come in for >> cuz I needed to train pharmacist.

[00:22:01]>> So they coming for that get paid for that but are they ha people in their minds they are >> they all rooting for me but they can't do this full time >> now culture only takes you so far with talent do you agree? No, no, no, no.

[00:22:16]>> You don't agree.

[00:22:17]>> No, no, no, no.

[00:22:18]>> So, at some point though, you will need So, let's take for example fundraising, right?

[00:22:24]>> You've hired a bookkeeper that has the right culture, very energetic, eager to work, >> and that's great in your first 6 months, maybe even your first 12 to 18 months.

[00:22:37]As you evolve, I would imagine that you want a bit more sophistication, right?

[00:22:40]If you're going to be fundraising, maybe someone that can that is client facing as we say, right? Investor ready, uh that can talk the talk, can pitch, can present, can represent you without you always being there. Don't you then see that there's a limit or there's a ceiling to which that culture or that energy can take that individual >> when you put it in that way? Yes.

[00:23:04]>> Okay.

[00:23:05]>> But we were talking about early stage.

[00:23:08]>> Fair enough. now >> even at the earlier stages, right?

[00:23:12]>> I don't know. For me, I'd rather throw analy out there >> and help him know what to do and he gets there and he's creative. I know his mind is in the right place.

[00:23:26]>> I know his confidence is high.

[00:23:28]>> I, you know, there are certain things I'm looking out for. All will improvise.

[00:23:33]He will go the extra mile. I've seen people who came to work with me, even on a part-time basis, drive to Kurodu at 11:00 p.m. to do stock taking overnight and go back home at 6:00 a.m.

[00:23:50]>> part time.

[00:23:50]>> Incredible.

[00:23:52]>> Now, there's some full-time, fully qualified people who would not do that.

[00:23:56]Their work is 8 to 5 >> and then they're done.

[00:23:58]>> That's what I'm talking about. Culture, >> I need to know you go the extra mile.

[00:24:03]Not because everybody is putting pressure on you or you want to impress me with nothingness but because you know this has to be done. This is the best.

[00:24:11]We can only do this stock taking overnight.

[00:24:14]>> Do you get the point? So when I'm talking about culture it's not some nice sounding thing. I'm talking about people who will go the extra committed who are committed who have a can do spirit and say but don't worry this isn't working.

[00:24:27]>> Let's try this.

[00:24:29]>> My second hire came from Twitter. I saw his profile and I saw pharmacist and graphic artist. I said, "Ha, this someone like me." Odd qu all right.

[00:24:41]Hello.

[00:24:42]>> Let's have a conversation.

[00:24:44]>> Yes. And from Twitter, we started conversing and I assigned him. He was based in Potacord at that time and he brought his friend along. So, he brought someone along and that's >> to also join a joint.

[00:24:57]>> Okay. And so we had >> even though you were not hiring for that person so you have to worry about salary for this individual. Okay.

[00:25:04]>> There was work to be done.

[00:25:06]>> Okay.

[00:25:06]>> And then I'm I'm fortunate in that I tend to attract people >> who are ready for anything right >> and so if I'm able to define oh you know oh great he's a pharmacist. Oh beautiful. In fact we need to create this database for this online pharmacy.

[00:25:24]And so I need someone who has database.

[00:25:26]And I said don't worry. He said don't worry my friend he wanted to bring four more. I said oh >> no >> there were six of them. So I said no just these two >> we're still early stage >> these two are okay you know >> you still need you know funding to keep the business running.

[00:25:39]>> Okay we'll come back to some of the points that you've raised to summarize some three points that you've mentioned around what what you look for. The first is someone who is truly committed to the business. Second is a strong can do attitude to go the extra mile to get the job done.

[00:26:00]>> And then third is definitely prioritizing culture commitment etc over what we typically will call you know experience right or >> certification >> or certification. Okay that's clear now we'll come back to how you attract those types of people and how you also assess for those types of people. But before we do that, let's understand AHA.

[00:26:24]Let's understand why you began this business, where the idea came from. You mentioned you were in consulting. So tell us how you went from consulting for Accenture and working with uh Tony Alumu Foundation. You mentioned that also during the the meet the guest and how you evolved from there to starting AHA.

[00:26:47]>> Okay.

[00:26:49]I think a a started from a need or an embarrassment really.

[00:26:54]>> Okay.

[00:26:55]>> A family member needed medicines. I wasn't practicing pharmacy at that time.

[00:26:59]He needed something and it's not very common but I thought oh don't worry don't worry let's go. We were living in Sher then let's go over to the island.

[00:27:08]There are lots of fancyarmacies there.

[00:27:10]We will find >> get what we want. Mhm. They went to nine and none had it. And I was quite embarrassed cuz I was looking at you're a pharmacist now.

[00:27:21]>> Yeah. You should know where to get this.

[00:27:22]>> Eventually, we cracked it and where we found it. Lola, you've never been to such a place.

[00:27:28]>> You may be surprised.

[00:27:29]>> Legit legit pharmacy, but it doesn't really come to your site, your line of sight readily. And I had to sit back and say, "Come on, >> I've seen that there are I mean this was just an aha moment, >> but I've seen many people need medicines and they go around 65ies and they just can't complete their prescription >> and I could I could see that it was common and this was when e-commerce was emerging >> and I thought if we can order food >> food that someone is biking to you and can open it and say this Lola you cannot cook in your house just to you know be nasty >> and you would trust that meal and you would eat it >> then why can't we order medicines >> and I looked around and I could find only one online pharmacy >> I checked their systems and I thought no no no this is not scary >> so comprehensive enough the inventory was quite len just the inventory it was a pharmacy located in two places and I thought this isn't the idea Yeah, >> I I go abroad and I can order anything and they would consolidate from their various points.

[00:28:42]>> The reach was very limited to me. So that >> I thought no let's do it this way. Let me aggregate pharmacies.

[00:28:51]>> I can speak to pharmacies. I understand them. They understand me. They would trust me. So I became an evangelist so to speak of aggregation. And I said, "Many of you are sitting on inventory and it's dead in your pharmacy cuz it's not moving fast enough.

[00:29:07]>> Let me bring some access to market for you where I can consolidate orders, bring to you and then we fulfill through you."

[00:29:15]>> I see.

[00:29:15]>> And that's the model that we >> build it up, build a platform for it and launched it October 21. October 1st, 2017.

[00:29:25]>> Amazing. Independence Day.

[00:29:26]>> Yes. And that was called my medicines.

[00:29:29]Okay.

[00:29:29]>> Prior to launching >> that's a website that folks can go to or they have to download the app or what's the format to get access to it? Both.

[00:29:37]Okay.

[00:29:37]>> Now, but we quickly learned even WhatsApp >> right >> many people would go to the website find the medicine and then come to the WhatsApp and say I need >> so e-commerce.

[00:29:52]Yes. And I think for health you want to engage.

[00:29:55]>> So we've opened multiple platforms. You can send us an SMS or WhatsApp, email, go to our platform. Now you can download, you know, mobile app any medicines to you.

[00:30:08]>> Incredible.

[00:30:08]>> So that was how we started and it's called my medicines. That solution is called my medicines and it's grown up until today. Earlier today there was feedback again. Someone ordered at 10:21 >> and said in the morning >> this morning and got the medicine 11:39.

[00:30:26]Incredible >> for us. That's under two hours.

[00:30:30]>> Turn around time.

[00:30:31]>> Turn around.

[00:30:32]>> Even for the food delivery guys, you sometimes don't get your your meal that fast.

[00:30:37]>> You're talking about food. What about electronics, books, and so on? It takes days.

[00:30:42]>> So, we knew we had to be able to set up a system that could respond quickly, >> less than four hours. And we're doing it. If you're in Kaduna, we know where to pick from to bring to you in Kaduna.

[00:30:54]So we've delivered in >> shepherd that is actually >> I'm not surprised. So there's someone who lives here in Lagos and his mom needs medicine. So he uses our services >> for both his mom and his dad and we deliver to Shepher.

[00:31:10]>> Where's Shepher?

[00:31:11]>> Shepher is in the border of O state with Ben Republic.

[00:31:15]>> Ah >> over there it's about 3 hours from people hardly go there. So we're talking about access. These are semi- urban and rural areas where we're able to take medicines to.

[00:31:30]>> So we even had to partner with NIPOST at a point in time.

[00:31:34]>> Now who has the breath of being able to reach all seven of the four local government areas? It's >> NIPost >> and they were like no no we don't do we don't pick up and then go and drop off.

[00:31:44]We have to convince them. So for us they opened up and okay let's try >> and em their career service you know. So we had to partner with people where because they let's try >> interesting >> let's try and >> fascinating and you make money through commission on >> commission fromies >> from the pharmacy so they're the ones paying and I guess the extra delivery charge that the client will pay for that >> the client pays for >> okay and do you have your own logistics or you partner with NIPOS and other logistics providers because >> it's a mix >> let's understand AHA's scale in numbers >> okay So we know that you're 9 years old.

[00:32:23]>> Yes.

[00:32:24]>> Talk us through employee size if you can share financial you know numbers you know revenue etc number ofarmacies scale just so that we have a sense of what you have built for the last 9 years.

[00:32:36]>> Okay so in terms of the back end we have over a thousandies >> over a thousandies >> in every state. So September 2024 we had crossed being able to deliver in every state. That for us would be impressive.

[00:32:52]>> So to clarify, a thousand each in each state or a thousand? So you are in every state? Okay.

[00:32:57]>> We're in every state. No, Nigeria doesn't have up to 6,000.

[00:33:03]So we have that presence.

[00:33:06]We have three main divisions in the business. The my medicines is what we call market access.

[00:33:14]>> Okay.

[00:33:15]>> Making medicines accessible. So it sells people direct to consumer and that leg of the pharmacy brings in about 40% of our total revenue.

[00:33:26]>> Okay.

[00:33:27]>> The second leg of the business brings in about 60% of the b of the revenue which is where as we began to move along we did some backward integration and so we distribute products our own pharmaceutical products.

[00:33:41]>> So you have your own brand.

[00:33:43]>> Yes. of panadol or >> okay of products >> of product okay >> these these ones that you would know us for DHA plus HB129 are ours exclusive to distribute >> and they're manufactured by a local manufacturer and we are the distributors >> I see >> so that accounts for 60 60 to 65% of our revenues so in all we have to as a last payroll 107 staff about 86 of them are full-time and others are interns.

[00:34:18]>> Amazing.

[00:34:18]>> And it comes to my point about how did I attract >> let's talk about that. Yes. So how do you attract the right type of people to AHA?

[00:34:28]>> I I I found out very early that I was able to attract curious people who wanted a different type of pharmacy business. M >> they wanted pharmacy mixed with tech, >> pharmacy mixed with supply chain, >> pharmacy mixed with capacity building and somehow I represent >> impact too.

[00:34:48]>> I represent that. So impact now in fact >> so we attract the sort of people and then you'd find them coming in organized fashion or one by one >> and in the early >> when you say organized fashion what do you mean you >> so someone like Lola would train 60 people and then you look for where to place them. So you organized interns and we will say we want two that can code one that can do AI another that can handle graphics and so on. So are these recruitment agencies or they a bit different from your typical recruitment agencies? I'm not this model. I'm not quite familiar with this model. So let's hear more about it. They're young enterprising people who say health and health tech needs a different set of skills and understanding and then they take people through the rigor of just understanding the sector understanding the startup nature >> and getting the entrepreneurial skills that they need to come and work with us.

[00:35:49]So some they shadow us. They want to set up a health tech solution themselves.

[00:35:54]>> They want to see how this one works. So I'm now open to say come come because the sky is big right come and learn.

[00:36:01]We've had people from Tanzania work with us remotely because they want to know about tele pharmacy and tele medicine and so on and so forth. So those are kind of programs.

[00:36:12]>> Interesting. Now that raises a bunch of questions around just the bandwidth to manage that group of people. I assume that that's not a money-m business for you. probably pay them a small stipend possibly. Right? Accommodate them possibly. Right? So just curious to know why you actually do that. Is it more from a pipeline to AHA? Is it more purely part of your passion and mission to bring up young professionals and you know leverage your own skills and gifts to to raise them up? or is there something else driving you doing that cuz it's it's not traditional for sure.

[00:36:59]>> It makes business sense LA. It makes business sense. Many of these people come and they work. They throw themselves into the work.

[00:37:09]>> They come eager to learn but inadvertently we learn from ourselves.

[00:37:15]>> They handle some areas and we then offer them a full-time role.

[00:37:19]>> And we have some who have stayed. We have our CSR tied fully into training young pharmacist. That's what we've committed to for 10 years. And we're running our CSR with the regulator pharmacy council of Nigeria.

[00:37:34]>> From that program, almost every year I have people who ask, can I come and work with you full-time? M >> so I have thrown my weight behind capacity building and in any shape or form in such a manner that they inspired to come to work with the business that I talk about.

[00:37:53]>> So it's made business sense. It helps me to access a lot of people. It also helps me to be able to feel rules because we have a pipeline that we can quickly draw on and it also brings in curious people who are willing to make mistakes >> or make errors and we still get on get on well.

[00:38:11]>> Fantastic.

[00:38:12]>> So I've attracted volunteers from a very long time.

[00:38:16]>> Let's talk about retaining them. So it's one thing to attract them.

[00:38:21]>> It's something else to actually retain >> Yeah. your very good hands with the business. And early stage businesses struggle with this, right? Because you bring someone in, you train them, you expose them to the way that you work, you upskill them, and then they're off to take on, you know, the next job for slight just slightly higher pay in some cases. So, what's your retention strategy?

[00:38:45]>> So, for me, retention, you have to be realistic. What's what is a reasonable period of time to have someone work with you?

[00:38:54]Back then it was 10 years.

[00:38:57]>> After a while we found it was more realistic five years.

[00:38:59]>> Five years.

[00:39:00]>> What is realistic for now?

[00:39:03]>> First of all, you need to have that understanding. If someone works with me for a year, two years and decides to move on. I had no bad feelings.

[00:39:13]>> So I needed to understand what >> and be comfortable with two years. Yeah, >> it's not the best. I would love to have people work with me for 10 years but guess what you may carry someone who is too heavy for 10 years >> right >> so just have a balance the second thing I believe is that you want to retain people on salary you cannot succeed >> why do you say that because banks do it all the time >> I'm not sure banks are telling >> there are people that don't like banking Okay. They don't want to be in finance, but they're there because they can frustrated.

[00:39:54]>> Yes. They're frustrated.

[00:39:55]>> They're frustrated. A frustrated person.

[00:39:58]A frustrated person would not give their best >> be fully engaged.

[00:40:02]>> And I need engaged people because we're in new territories. We need people who can try new things and are not grumbling.

[00:40:10]>> I'm not thinking they're doing me a favor.

[00:40:14]>> They must want to work.

[00:40:17]So I don't want to retain people that are grumbling and are just here because this salary is too good. I cannot lose it though. No, >> not that I'm intentionally paying people below, but I'm just saying you work here. It isn't because of the pay.

[00:40:34]>> I'll pay you a right amount and I'll keep edging to make sure you have benefits. So we'd look for ways to creative ways to pay bonuses. would look for ways to make sure that you know you get something to go home with. When we had a spike in transportation cost, we carved out money specifically for junior to meet senior to make sure they had extra funding >> and then we radically changed our way of working to be more remote than in the office. So you could spend less time on the road and less money.

[00:41:07]>> So my point is people must see you are intentional about them.

[00:41:14]That for me is much more than that you're paying a big salary.

[00:41:19]>> The way we are intentional about our staffing make them feel valued.

[00:41:24]>> So what specific things do you do? So you mentioned one which is subsidizing transportation moving to a bit more of a hybrid structure. What other specific things do you do within AHA to attract and retain the right people in your organization even if they're only with you for two years?

[00:41:43]>> Let me give you maybe three.

[00:41:45]>> Let me give you maybe examples will help.

[00:41:46]>> Yes, that would be that would be very an anniversary milestone and we were low in cash. You know sometime it can be great on the book paper profit but cash is anything >> very different. and we were low in cash and I said you know what we cannot afford any party and we had a brain wave maybe I had a brain wave I don't know who exactly had a brain wave but I rode with it instead of having a party find out so everybody bring your parents bring your mother or father some people are just mother bring their name some parents who live in calaba bring and we sent a care package to every parent >> how lovely LA, you think it's lovely if you know the kind of videos, recordings this parent sent to us, >> saying they've never heard of this kind of thing before. Oh, this is beautiful.

[00:42:44]Prayers upon prayers. The staff themselves felt good because their parents felt they were working >> organization. The kind of organization that is scary. If you had a child working somewhere >> and they nasty, wouldn't you be the one helping to >> them to find somewhere else to go?

[00:43:03]>> But we have parents who are urging them to stay.

[00:43:07]>> We didn't know. We didn't do it for that. We did it because we just wanted to mark that milestone >> and we do it differently versus the typical party.

[00:43:16]>> We just did it to say if we can't give the staff something that will impress them, give their parents and parents liked it. a package with a medicine, a nice uh those bottles something and a t-shirt also.

[00:43:29]>> So something simple doesn't have to be elaborate.

[00:43:32]>> Lola, we're intentional about our people.

[00:43:35]>> The other thing is that they know when Abima says we cannot pay this thing. We cannot pay.

[00:43:40]>> They're not really >> we keep our >> they trust they trust that we not you are not taking out and then just not giving to the team. Well, I hope they don't think I'm thinking that, >> but we're we're very intentional about being truthful and being transparent.

[00:43:57]>> So, last year we had promised because cost of living was really jumping over the past 3 years. So, we had promised there would be a salary increase, >> but I can't increase because I have a board.

[00:44:10]>> I have a board I'm accountable to. So, it has to pass through the board and of course the board will ask you certain questions. Then we go back to the team and say we're working with the board you've asked this thing but don't worry we will sort it out because we will come to that point and at a point when the board approved we couldn't pay >> so we went back to the team and said board has approved we cannot pay you >> yet >> we will pay you I think that approval came in February and we said we'll pay you in July >> so everybody expected salary increase from July from June I knew it was not going to based off of the numbers and how the business there were certain things happening that cash would just not flow or would start and then not continue and we have not broken salaries in the years since >> for about seven eight years >> every month you get your salary you may think salary but is normal in the very mature organizations yes it is normal >> but in smaller organizations or entrepreneurs.

[00:45:17]It's a big deal.

[00:45:18]>> It is absolutely.

[00:45:19]>> So I didn't want a situation where we would start and then stop. So I told them, look, July is coming. I'd written to I try to write once a month kind of thing. July is coming. We're unable to pay you that promised salary. It's all been sorted and worked out, but cash is not available to do it. There are three milestones we must hit in September. If we meet them, >> then we would have the cash. We hit two and we said let's start. So from September we started and the feedback from staff was you people do what you say you said you would do. So that level of trust and sticking with your commitment to your employees as well.

[00:46:01]>> So when I say it's not just about salary I I mean it >> the last part I would mention now is the vision.

[00:46:09]M.

[00:46:09]>> So I think one of my biggest rules in AHA is to share a key vision >> that anyone who works in AHA knows that we're going somewhere. Now it's not boooo and it's not to just you know string you along.

[00:46:26]>> It's for you to understand you're part of a meaningful venture >> sharing feedback about how we are impacting people's lives >> and how transparent do you get with your team? So it's one thing to share impact metrics for example right we've recruited a thousand pharmacies across all states in Nigeria when it comes to your earlier point on cash flow how transparent can you realistically get as a business leader with your team to the point where they >> believe that this truly is the case without also scaring them that you know what maybe I should go find somewhere else because this business looks like you know it might not be fully >> fully solid just yet.

[00:47:09]>> We've had that. So, we've swung to the fully transparent full disclosure and it was too dangerous.

[00:47:16]>> Yes.

[00:47:17]>> And so, we you know, this is a measured >> disclosure.

[00:47:22]>> So, what do you do? What what do you disclose to your team?

[00:47:25]>> So, so every two weeks all teams there are four four department all four department declare their business. If so if you're >> if you're hitting 40% of your revenue it's you have to declare it >> okay >> if you're on 35 what is the actual number and how you going to bridge it all so targets are all transparent performance management is very regular >> very clear very regular and everybody knows and you can question >> so even if a senior manager is presenting you should be able to ask what are you doing to bring our money in because I can see there's a lot of receivables and so on. So more people understand even the business we're doing.

[00:48:07]>> I think I've worked with I've seen some some organizations that people don't even understand how you're making money >> to be honest. Yes.

[00:48:15]>> And where some of our money is coming from grants. We announce all the grants.

[00:48:19]We announce what we're applying for. We announce when we win those that don't come with money. M >> we announced uh when we so even when we couldn't raise capital >> I had to ensure people understood that look for every receivable out there this is the cost of capital >> this is what is happening when we say go and collect our funds and all of that >> the impacts >> I think we we're as transparent as we should be >> where do you draw the line >> what do you not share with your team that you reserve for either the board or just the closest most senior management.

[00:48:55]>> I think the team may not know what our exact margins are.

[00:48:59]>> Okay.

[00:49:01]>> They may not know that. But for board meetings, I attend the board meeting with the four executives that work with me.

[00:49:08]>> Okay. Across the four.

[00:49:09]>> So all five of us know.

[00:49:11]>> So it's not just >> Abimala.

[00:49:14]But some people don't know margins, but they know the impact of margins because there are some units that the margins are high, some the margins are low, but these ones have receivables, these ones are paid in. So, it's a blend. You should understand that. I'm not quite sure what else they don't know.

[00:49:33]>> That's actually quite unusual, right?

[00:49:36]The level of transparency that you have in your business.

[00:49:39]>> Very intentional. So you found that to also help with attracting the right people and keeping them retaining them with you.

[00:49:46]>> Retaining the right people.

[00:49:48]>> I think transparency, caring, being intentional about their engagement level and watching culture, those are factors that are very important and sometimes more important than just what you pay people.

[00:50:01]>> Let's discuss equity.

[00:50:04]>> Okay. Do you use equity as a compensation lever or not? If you do, how do you think through that? How do you determine who you give it to? How do you determine how much to give out and when to give it out?

[00:50:18]>> So, equity as compensation came up when I was going to hire a particular executive.

[00:50:24]And in terms of pay, this person was going to earn a certain amount plus perks plus bonus plus equity.

[00:50:35]>> So articulating it and you know following through it was clear that he's motivated in that manner.

[00:50:42]>> I had another executive who hadn't negotiated such but I thought their work was equally balanced >> and then we granted equity to that person. wasn't negotiated but it was part of let's compensate for this reason and then the board passed that through >> we also have early starters the I was mentioning >> and a few other early people who have a percentage in the company >> so when you say is not with me he's not with me but he's with me >> he's with you >> you know so uh when I was taking on uh angel investors it was clear to them that I have this commitment to certain people early associates I call them that I would like to give a certain percentage in block two >> and then we set out aside some percentage for executives that would come on we don't quite have an esop now >> okay >> but we set up a threeman team of the staff to work out okay this is our valuation so they know our valuation >> and this is what is possible if we had an ISOP in place and they worked out the details So the details are worked out.

[00:51:53]Like I try not to rush into things. They know it will come out >> eventually >> when the time is right. Yeah. Fantastic.

[00:52:01]So you mentioned that you hired two senior executives and you had a relatively robust pay package, right?

[00:52:08]With perks, bonuses, equity also thrown in. At what point do you decide to hire experienced individuals versus the early hungry but inexperienced individuals like that you had mentioned earlier.

[00:52:27]So, so I think at a point in time when you're growing the business and you want far more stability >> than experimentation, you must bring in people who are seasoned >> and who can also challenge your ideas. I tell you something, one of our board advisors earlier before we had a full board, n he he he came for our sessions because I tried to bring them in on a quarterly basis just to see what I'm doing >> and advice and he listened to all the presentations and things and when we were walking out he said oh well you're doing very well you're doing well >> but you know so there was a but hanging there >> and I said what's the but he said but you don't have anyone that can challenge you I said only they can challenge In fact, well on a firstn name basis you say yeah I hear all that >> but you have no one >> that can say this is the idea has put forward >> this is where it might have some gaps >> so that reflection >> you know I was shaken and I thought you know that's so true with all his good intentions can't really say mother we can't do this thing >> do it >> you know >> so when we raised funding Part of why we raised was so that I could steadily attract and then keep >> people who have worked in places. So I think one of the notable people was someone who had worked in Coca-Cola >> to come and work in finance >> and I was so happy because honestly I wasn't keeping good books.

[00:54:03]>> Oh my god.

[00:54:04]>> Which is not unusual.

[00:54:05]>> Early stages >> for entrepreneur they're just trying to get the job done. So he came on and he had worked in a cong organization. He had been in a London office or another organization. So hey welcome you know >> you have work to do.

[00:54:22]>> Yeah you have work to do but I was very lucky very fortunate.

[00:54:26]>> I didn't hire people who were stuck up you know there's a way you would hire someone from a corporate organization >> and they expect paper to be in the photocopying machine. They expect water in the water dispenser.

[00:54:42]>> In a startup or a newme >> is all hands on deck.

[00:54:46]>> Maybe you have to go and drive down to bring the water.

[00:54:50]>> You know, we are we're building the job done however it needs to be done.

[00:54:56]>> We get the job done. And I'm very fortunate that I didn't hire people who couldn't understand the realities of of of starting up a new business.

[00:55:07]The the other major hires came when we needed managers of people and so they came from experience some level of experience from diverse backgrounds again until co showed us that we needed to diversify our business. We needed to pivot >> there. I needed an executive.

[00:55:28]So while people were growing, I needed someone who had seen a different kind of business that had launched products and had seen pharmaceutical distribution through and through >> and I was fortunate that there was someone I had been talking to from before I even started the business.

[00:55:46]>> Got it. So there was that relationship.

[00:55:48]So it wasn't somebody just offering recruitment agency.

[00:55:52]>> No.

[00:55:52]>> Yeah. So I went to call on him that we can afford you now >> was MD or somewhere and said oh it has to be MD here as well. I said no problem.

[00:56:01]>> We'll give you the title.

[00:56:02]>> I'm founder. See you. You'll be MD C.

[00:56:06]>> So I had no qualms about such because the work needed to be done.

[00:56:12]>> Yeah.

[00:56:12]>> I am not hung up about titles.

[00:56:15]>> So when he could claim that I had to find a different title.

[00:56:19]>> That's why when you say who am I? I'm founder, CEO.

[00:56:22]>> I think that's important to note. I might joke about it, but really you must give people the accord, you know, accord them the respect that they they need.

[00:56:31]>> And so he came in as an MD for a full subsidiary and he's been driving it as though it was his business.

[00:56:37]>> Fantastic.

[00:56:39]>> So when I say I'm fortunate, I'm really fortunate you get >> and of course we've retained, they have a free hand, they move things >> and then we've promoted someone from manager up on to senior VP. So we have a whole mix. You know we've also had from the industry someone very articulate with pharmacies that network of pharmacies used to be one of their you know top officials when they can bring that on board we then brought him in so there those five executives >> but I think more people have grown >> within the organization to be an an officer and you've grown grown and of course u >> we're we're open to to to different kinds of people >> you've painted a very rosy almost idealistic picture.

[00:57:28]This is what every entrepreneur dreams of, right? Being able to attract folks with the right level of competence, culture, fit, >> driving the business, being independent, growing. I mean, that all sounds amazing, but we also know that sometimes things don't often go as we expect them to. I'm curious to hear some of your thoughts on when things haven't gone well, right?

[00:57:59]Why they didn't go well and how you've managed those tricky situations.

[00:58:04]>> We've had many instances. When you hear me talk about how well it's going, you wouldn't believe how many we've had.

[00:58:13]>> We've had many instances just that I can't focus on them. I try to learn from them and apply it forward. I give you one very recent situation. We hired someone well recommended >> and he came in you know foreign trained beautiful spirits and >> resume very you know very good can do spirit those nice qualities that I look at.

[00:58:37]>> Okay. So what what happened >> and his can do was overdue.

[00:58:44]>> Okay. No, don't let me trivialize it. He came in, he had a specific goal. I shared the vision of a specific aspect and he kept running with it.

[00:58:55]>> But he didn't have experience working with people.

[00:58:59]So he's probably probably these are guesses >> probably his natural tendency is to lord it over >> or divide and rule >> whatever those tendencies didn't go well and when it caught my attention I realized something had to give >> was either I let him go or I lose lose two, three people >> on the team.

[00:59:31]>> Yes. Not just lose them. They could stay, but I would lose them, >> right? Their commitment, their focus, >> their their their commitment.

[00:59:40]So, I let him go.

[00:59:42]>> And how was that conversation?

[00:59:44]>> It wasn't a conversation. He didn't respond.

[00:59:47]>> Oh my goodness.

[00:59:48]>> It was It was very silly. It went badly, >> but it had to happen.

[00:59:53]>> It happened. And then you sort of move on from it.

[00:59:55]>> Yes. I moved on. and he's moved on.

[00:59:58]Unfortunately, somewhere else that needed someone like him that had his skills.

[01:00:04]They found his CV and came to meet me to ask, oh, how is this person?

[01:00:10]And I'm like, he's great, but >> just keep these things in mind and that works for you.

[01:00:15]>> They didn't hire >> they didn't hire him.

[01:00:17]>> Someone else who had left, I recommended and she was taken on fantastic pay and all.

[01:00:23]>> So, that's one example. A second example is someone who was recommended by one of my senior executives >> that have worked with this gentleman. So he'll be great here. And he came on full responsibility, lots of work to do and he seemed to be doing it well. Very charismatic, beautiful guy. And if he spoke to you, you would get carried away.

[01:00:48]>> But I start seeing gaps. Someone would say, "Oh, this person reports some false claims, >> you know, and all the I think at a point in time there were clashes, right?

[01:01:01]>> And so he polarized the team and when that begins to happen, you talk, you have that chat and say, you know, this person better you work together than a polarized fashion." I think the the the straw that broke the camel's back for me was when I heard one of our staff up country knelt down to ask him for something.

[01:01:30]>> Oh my goodness. Okay.

[01:01:33]>> So, I couldn't understand what would push a grown human being to kneel down to a colleague to beg for access.

[01:01:47]It was just in I couldn't conceive it. I couldn't think.

[01:01:51]>> So it means that his leadership style is on others.

[01:01:57]>> He must have been barricading access.

[01:02:00]And I realized that when they needed goods, he would let some have goods and he would let some, you know, starve >> and so they couldn't make their money.

[01:02:11]Like how? Nobody can beg me. I started a company.

[01:02:17]I don't tolerate such. How can you be the kind of person they begging? You must have created yourself. You must have made yourself a monster >> in this company. You've got to go.

[01:02:30]>> So that was a full no. And so I advised HR to help him, you know, get out of the company.

[01:02:38]You just don't do that. When do you use performance improvement plans, PIPs, and when do you simply say, you know what, tomorrow, please drop your laptop, drop your ID, and it's been great, but >> no, thank you, >> Lola. We hire for technical skills, right? And that spark, but I've seen us fire more for behavioral infringement >> than poor performance. M >> quite honestly, if it's a PIP, there's a plan, >> right?

[01:03:12]>> You you're meant to be handling the the digital presence of this product, >> right? And you're not >> come on, >> tell me how you know, step up, do and if it's not improving in your performance appears on 6 months, 3 months or 1 month, you must show improvement. M >> honestly I can tell you I have seen improvement >> in almost every case that has come to my attention and I believe that so they don't always have they don't always cut it but when we bring it to your attention and draw up a plan >> it's usually sit up they almost always sit up I can't >> I can't remember someone we've said to go because of performance >> I've seen people go because they just developed an attitude >> yeah issues We had a young lady and she just was rude to her manager.

[01:04:05]How you rude to this manager?

[01:04:08]Unfortunately, maybe fortunately or unfortunately, she was close to me.

[01:04:12]>> That's the manager.

[01:04:13]>> No, the the >> young lady, >> she used to teach my son to bake.

[01:04:18]>> Okay. So, she assumed that since she's close to you that she could behave. Hope not.

[01:04:22]>> I hope not. So, she misbehaved at a point in time. We told her she should go for a drug test.

[01:04:29]you cannot be all right.

[01:04:32]So her father paid for a drug test >> and it turned out that >> turned out she wasn't on drugs.

[01:04:37]>> Okay.

[01:04:38]>> So we did the corrections. The committee met with her, corrected her and all that. And then about 3 months afterward she was rude. She had to go.

[01:04:46]>> The behavior just didn't change.

[01:04:48]>> The behavior didn't change adequately.

[01:04:51]>> So can I tell you more? Because there are many.

[01:04:55]>> There's so many. There's so many. The point is when it happens, you deal with it decisively. I've had a cousin, my like a nephew, you know, when someone is so close to you, like a nephew who worked with us.

[01:05:08]>> And since then, we've not hired my family members.

[01:05:12]>> I was ready to take him to the police station.

[01:05:14]>> It was that serious.

[01:05:15]>> It was serious. And then he withheld information and closed off uh a Google document that his whole team was working on. So I said I'll get the police. So I called his father and I'm calling the police for your son cuz I cannot I I can't tolerate nonsense.

[01:05:34]>> So you might think that I come across as being open and >> also consequences when we had a family meeting and at that meeting I said unfortunately he's blocked the chances I cannot hire anybody else in my family. M >> so when you come now say you want to work with me >> I have no no hesitation >> telling you it's not possible >> cuz I close that from that guys my behavior >> interesting so when it's performance related you work with them through a PIP but when it's behavioral you have to take sweep action >> we have >> right because you just can't tolerate that for the best interest of the company and to avoid corrupting the culture >> especially if They think, "Oh, this one is getting away with it because of our being."

[01:06:27]>> That other young man came from one of my board directors.

[01:06:31]So if he got away with it, the others will feel oh they get away with this kind of things, you know, and then they feel all that culture thing is, you know.

[01:06:43]>> This has been great, Abinah. Thank you so much for sharing. Are there any maybe top three final tips that you'd want to leave for the audience as you hire talent for early stage founders?

[01:06:55]>> Thank you L. I've had a refreshing time talking with you. But I think let me drop these three things. First of all, be intentional about hiring people.

[01:07:04]>> They come in different shapes, different form. They walk in to your life from different angles, not always the formal way, but when you're hiring, hire for a purpose. and as much as possible put a dimension to what they will come to do.

[01:07:19]The second point I would emphasize is that be swift, be decisive with people. Don't let them linger if they need to go and find themselves elsewhere. They may thrive elsewhere, >> maybe not where you are. So don't let things linger because it spoils the rest. He spoils the water for for all the all the all the others. And I think the third point is that it's not just about money. Money is important, but many times when you show people that you are truly believable and you can be trusted.

[01:08:00]>> I think that counts a lot more than whether we're increasing pay by a few thousands.

[01:08:08]>> This has been an incredible conversation with Abima. Thanks. so much for sharing from your wealth of wisdom and just nuggets of truth that you have dropped during this episode. It's been a pleasure having this chat with you guys.

[01:08:22]Hope you enjoyed this as much as I did and hope you learned one or two things to help you think about hiring talent and retaining talent when you have folks on your team. Thank you very much for listening and see you next time. Please follow us on our social media channels at Instagram at periscope.podcast, on Tik Tok at periscope.podcast, on Twitter at Paris Media, and on YouTube at periscope.podcast.

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