Face the Nation: Gottlieb, Lieu, Soeripto

Added: 2026-05-12

[00:00:05]Welcome back to Face the Nation.

[00:00:06]Passengers from the hantavirus-stricken cruise ship arrived this morning in Spain's Canary Islands, where they were ferried onto land by small launch boats, then checked for symptoms before being flown on evacuation flights.

[00:00:21]Close to 150 people on board the ship, and among them 17 of them Americans, they're going to be flown to a quarantine unit in Nebraska. No one so far is showing symptoms. For more now, we turn to former FDA Commissioner Dr. Scott Gottlieb. He also serves on the boards of Pfizer and United Healthcare.

[00:00:40]Welcome back, doctor.

[00:00:43]Thank you. So, there have been three deaths linked to the outbreak here in the US. There are six states monitoring potential exposure, all either linked to the ship itself or flights of people who had been on the ship. And then those 17 Americans. Um, do you agree with the CDC and the World Health Organization that the risk to public health is low?

[00:01:08]Yeah, I do agree with that. Uh, we have to concede that there are still things we don't know about this virus. We haven't had to grapple with many outbreaks in the past. There's been two large outbreaks in Argentina, but based on that experience, what we know is that typically for transmission, you have to have close contact. We also know that people typically aren't contagious unless they are showing signs of of the infection itself in the what we call the prodromal phase, where they start to have an onset of symptoms. And the progression from that onset of symptoms to um, severe disease and in the these cases, death, is typically just days.

[00:01:39]This is a very aggressive virus. And so, based on what we know, the transmission risk is low. Now, that said, when you look back at the past experience, there are these outlier cases where there appears to have been transmission among people who weren't, um, perceived to be in close contact. And so, there are these, um, cases that we need to look at closely from the past experience and just be wary that perhaps there's things we don't know fully about this virus. I will say that we are nearing the end of the transmission window for the people who are being repatriated here in the US. And so, it looks to me like the last death on that cruise ship was May 2nd.

[00:02:11]That patient had an onset of symptoms on April 28th.

[00:02:15]If you believe that the incubation period is about 2 to 6 weeks, they'll be at the peak of that incubation cycle some point this week.

[00:02:23]So, I think we're about 2 weeks away from knowing whether or not there'll be additional cases that come from that initial outbreak on the cruise ship. So, a key moment here. I mean, the WHO said it's very clear this is not COVID all over again. But, as you know, it has ignited some of the very same skeptics who during the pandemic really questioned our government institutions and the response. The WHO has said there is no research that Ivermectin is an effective treatment for the virus. But, I'm wondering what you make of these calls for alternative treatments and resistance of government health advice.

[00:03:05]Look, I think we're going to be relitigating the consequences of COVID for a long time. And I think a lot of people who are in public health positions right now believe that their tenure and their appointment to these positions is a referendum on COVID in some respects. And so, that echoes through their public comments. This is not COVID. It's not going to spread like a pandemic virus like COVID did, like a coronavirus did. It spreads far less efficiently. There aren't any treatments, successful treatments for this virus. Ivermectin certainly isn't an effective treatment. Just by virtue of its mechanism, it doesn't work against this virus. It prevents viral replication in the nucleus, not the cytoplasm where this virus replicates.

[00:03:41]It's just not going to work. So, I would encourage people not to use that. I know that there's been some things on social media suggesting that people should stockpile Ivermectin. We don't have an effective treatment for Hantavirus. And that would what makes us very menacing.

[00:03:53]Well, indeed and we're going to continue to to track that. You served in the first Trump administration as his FDA commissioner in the first term.

[00:04:03]The person in that job now has been a guest on this program Dr. Marty Makary.

[00:04:08]He was a vocal critic of COVID response during Trump and Biden. There's a lot of reporting right now that his current position that he's at risk of losing his job.

[00:04:20]Given how important the FDA is, they regulate I saw 1/5 of consumer spending in this country. How damaging would it be to lose its leader and is there someone who could step in quickly?

[00:04:35]No one obvious to me and there's been some reporting about different candidates that could work on an interim basis there. Marty's a friend. You know, I I think that that's a very difficult job. It as you said regulates about 20% of the US economy, products that are very important to people's lives, medical products, food, food safety. And so there there's a lot of debate and consternation about decisions that get made at FDA and so it's been a controversial position for whoever has held that job including me. You know, I got criticized for decisions that I made in that position as well. I think the continued upheaval at FDA has been detrimental to the agency, not just the speculation about Marty's fate but also the departures that we've seen from the agency. The agency's lost thousands of medical reviewers, some voluntary through the through the dodge cuts or some forced through the dodge cuts. Involuntary means some voluntary. There's been a lot of voluntary departures from the agency.

[00:05:25]If you look at the oncology division, they had a starting strength of about 100 medical reviewers at the beginning of this administration, they're down to about 50. The hematological group that reviews drugs for leukemia and lymphoma had 21 medical reviewers and is down to six. They lost an entire breast cancer review team. So there's been a lot of departures from the agency. You've seen political appointees take over what are typically career leadership positions running the medical product centers, the drug center, and the biologic center.

[00:05:52]Mhm. So, I think cumulatively that's taken a toll on the agency and this continued speculation that we saw on Friday I think is just going to be another step downward.

[00:06:00]Uh those are stunning numbers to hear you rattle off there. Um I want to ask you about some of current leadership there.

[00:06:08]Uh Secretary Kennedy was speaking about the use of antidepressants in this country. Um almost 17% of Americans use them. He says they're over prescribed and he compared his experience of heroin withdrawal to a family members experience getting off antidepressants known as SSRIs. Take a listen.

[00:06:29]I watched family member get off of them after a couple of years on them and she was suicidal literally every day.

[00:06:39]She woke up every morning and said, "I don't want to live." And she said, "The only reason I'm staying alive is for you guys, for the family."

[00:06:49]He later said that he was not telling people to stop if they're taking that medication. But, what do you make of his description of antidepressants as risky?

[00:07:01]Look, these are prescribed in a primary care setting and like any drug that's prescribed in that setting, I'm sure there's some marginal prescribing. Um you know, isolated marginal prescribing.

[00:07:10]But, for most Americans who take these drugs, they're very important and in some cases life-saving and I would um encourage everyone who is thinking about potentially stopping these medications based on the Secretary's comments to consult their doctor. There is a period of time that patients need to be weaned off these drugs. They can be successfully weaned off these drugs if they want to be and there's alternatives that could be effective for their mental health. But, nobody should just stop these drugs um outright without being under the consultation of a medical provider. I worry that the Secretary's comments is going to discourage legitimate use of these drugs in in same way that his comments around Tylenol discourage use of Tylenol in the setting of pregnancy where it could be very important for certain pregnant women who need pain relief and fever relief in that setting. We saw a lot of women move away from those drugs, use of those drugs, even appropriate use of those drugs based on the secretary's comments about that. I worry about the same thing here. It's clear that the secretary wants to put downward pressure on the prescribing.

[00:08:02]He tried to implement regulatory steps to do that as well. And so it is concerning. Mhm.

[00:08:07]Okay.

[00:08:08]Um Dr. Gottlieb, we're going to have to leave it there. I want to have you back to talk about vaping um one of these days but I'm going to have to leave it there due to time constraints. Thank you so much for your analysis.

[00:08:19]We'll be back in a moment.

[00:08:24]Virginia Democrats suffered a major setback on Friday when the state Supreme Court struck down a congressional map recently approved by voters that could have created four Democratic House districts.

[00:08:36]The court's majority found that the timing of the referendum process had violated the state's constitution.

[00:08:41]Virginia Democrats say they plan to challenge that decision.

[00:08:45]Meanwhile, furious Democratic protesters charged state capitals in Louisiana, Alabama, and Tennessee when legislators there took steps to redraw current district maps that would be favorable to Republicans.

[00:09:05]Congressional maps in at least five other states have also been changed for partisan reasons ahead of the midterm elections.

[00:09:11]CBS estimates that Republicans are now approximately nine seats closer to keeping control of the House.

[00:09:19]We go now to California Congressman Ted Lieu. He is a vice chair of the Democratic Caucus and a member of the Foreign Affairs Committee. He joins us this morning from Los Angeles. Good morning to you.

[00:09:30]Good morning, Margaret.

[00:09:32]So, you are in Democratic leadership.

[00:09:34]You just heard us lay out what's going on with redistricting. How concerned are you that Republicans now hold the advantage given the recent court decisions?

[00:09:45]Uh thank you, Margaret, for that question. Let me just first say happy Mother's Day uh to all the mothers across America.

[00:09:52]Regarding your question, I would disagree that Republicans may have a nice seat nine-seat advantage because that's based on data from last term. And their Trump coalition has completely collapsed because of skyrocketing gas prices, surging inflation. And if you look at the polling data and the results we've had in special elections this year as well as last year, we think the Republicans may have an advantage of anywhere between three to five additional seats. That is not enough for them to stop a Democratic blue wave coming this November. And the best thing to do uh when uh a court does something outlandish like the Virginia Supreme Court is to get back up and fight and make sure we win in the midterms. But that Virginia push by Democrats, you spent more than $60 million on that redistricting effort. Um wouldn't those funds have been better spent on those frontline candidates and arguing on the issues?

[00:10:54]Yeah.

[00:10:55]So, what the Virginia Supreme Court did was not only wrong, uh it was disgraceful. They basically said, "Hey, Virginia, spend all this taxpayers' money holding an election, do all this stuff, and oh, by the way, just kidding, that election didn't count." The court could have stopped this by not having the election in the first place. They suckered the people of Virginia. It was a complete disgrace. Now, most of the money that Democrats spend in the race is called C4 money. So, that's not direct hard money that we're going to need for races in the midterms. But it was taxpayers' money that was wasted because of the disgraceful You think it was worth the You think it worth the financial cost?

[00:11:36]somehow continue to fight this in court?

[00:11:41]Uh we're going to look at all available options. We're definitely going to try to keep fighting this battle. And I just want to note, the best way again, if someone shoves you down, is to get right back up and fight back. And that's what we're going to do. And of these four seats in Virginia, we believe we're going to win two of them in the midterms. And that's what we're doing.

[00:11:59]We're fighting back. Okay. So, you still believe that Democrats can retake the House. What is your main message? Uh that was We will take the House. On on what message?

[00:12:14]The American people voted in Donald Trump because they wanted lower costs, and he lied to them. We have surging inflation, sky riding sky rocketing gas prices. The Trump tariffs have raised costs across many products across America. People are drowning in debt and in bills. And Democrats are going to reduce health care costs, lower costs across the board, reduce your energy costs. That's the message we're running on.

[00:12:40]>> going to do that? Democrats shut down the government to have an argument over health care, and they didn't get any policy concessions, and premiums went up. You lost that fight.

[00:12:49]Well, actually, we passed through the House an extension of ACA tax credits for 3 years. We urge the Senate uh to pass that legislation as well. Democrats, when we get control, we're going to reverse the massive Medicaid cuts, the Medicare cuts, and the cuts to ACA that Trump and Republicans put in last year.

[00:13:09]Let me ask you about your position on the Foreign Affairs Committee. Um Secretary Rubio said Taiwan will likely be discussed during President Trump's visit to China this week to meet with Xi Jinping. This is a hugely consequential summit. Um on Friday, Taiwan's parliament approved $25 billion in funds to buy more American weapons. Are you largely supportive at this point of the Trump administration's willingness to to strengthen Taiwan's defense?

[00:13:38]Both Democratic and Republican administrations have had the exact same policy, which is to preserve the current status quo, and we're trying to keep China from doing anything stupid in Indo-Pacific, including a military conflict. And I just want to emphasize that the Iran war has shown that we need a brand new strategy in the Indo-Pacific, because in any prolonged conflict with China or Russia, the US will run out of defensive munitions. We already started running out of defensive munitions in a war that lasted less than 60 days, and even against a second-rate military like Iran, they struck multiple US bases. So, in any overseas conflict, our overseas bases will be obliterated by Russia and China. We need a new defense strategy, and I call on the Pentagon to deliver that to Congress.

[00:14:28]Well, President Trump has made these record-large promises of arms sales to Taiwan. Are you saying that America actually can't deliver on them, because the stockpiles are so depleted and the industrial base can't deliver?

[00:14:45]That's absolutely correct. We don't have enough defensive munitions in any prolonged conflict with Russia and China that will sustain what we need to do. We couldn't even do this in Iran, of a war of less than 60 days, we started to run low on defensive munitions. And part of the problem is some of these missiles, for example, take a long time to make.

[00:15:06]We basically make 96 of some of these defensive missiles a year. That's just not enough.

[00:15:12]Uh I want to ask you about AI. The Times report, New York Times reported that President Trump is considering an executive order that would implement some government oversight over new AI models. I know you have legislation on I just want to first say as a recovering computer science major, I think it is horrible for their AI industry to run wild. We need to have reasonable guardrails.

[00:15:44]Yep.

[00:15:45]Okay. Sorry, I think we're having >> hear me? Yeah, I think we're both having audio issues there, um, Congressman, but I'm going to go to commercial break here. Thank you.

[00:15:59]We turn now to Janti Soeripto. She is the President and CEO of Save the Children US, which works to provide humanitarian aid and health resources to children worldwide. Good to have you here on this Mother's Day.

[00:16:11]Thank you, Margaret, and happy Mother's Day.

[00:16:13]You're just back from Sudan, which is one of the hardest places in the world to be a parent, certainly to be a mother.

[00:16:21]>> [snorts] >> Pope Leo called it an inhumane tragedy.

[00:16:24]The UN says 34 million people need urgent assistance.

[00:16:28]I know the US is trying to work on humanitarian ceasefire, but tell me what you saw there on the ground.

[00:16:34]Well, Margaret, it is truly the the world's worst humanitarian crisis with millions of people in need, uh, and probably also the the one that gets the least attention relative to the need. Um, it literally took me 4 days to actually get from here to see the first school, um, that we are supporting there. So, the level of logistical operational impediments to actually get support to children and mothers where they are is unbelievably difficult. You have to cross multiple lines of, uh, of various militant groups. Mhm. Um, it is truly truly the last mile. Um, and and the scale of the need is is really astonishing. I see a lot of emergency situations across the world. I see a lot of fragile states, but this was really right up there.

[00:17:24]Um I know the US has said this is essentially a proxy fight now. Um but when you look at the humanitarian need, some of the statistics that were flooring to me here was the degree of sexual violence. It is systematically used as a tactic of war according to the UN.

[00:17:43]Um 13 million people, mostly women and girls, require support according to the UN related to that kind of violence.

[00:17:50]That's four times higher than before the conflict. Doctors Without Borders said the war is being fought on the backs and bodies of women and girls.

[00:17:59]But they fault aid groups for not doing enough. Do you think aid groups are?

[00:18:05]We're doing what we can, but I would certainly agree that it is not enough.

[00:18:09]We simply do not have the resources.

[00:18:11]Uh and I would agree with what I what I heard there and that is just a tiny tip of the iceberg was completely you know, unbelievable.

[00:18:21]Our colleagues there, we have about 150 colleagues in Darfur, which is the area where I was. Um all of those have lost their home. They are displaced themselves. They have lost their homes.

[00:18:30]Most of them came from Al Fasher where a lot of the violence occurred last October.

[00:18:35]I spoke to a colleague of mine who had to walk with her 16-year-old daughter.

[00:18:38]The daughter was threatened. She fought. I mean, I saw the scars on her face. She fought to to help her daughter to keep her daughter alive and safe. And then she did get out and was essentially rescued by by somebody. So, this one had a a somewhat happy ending, but so so many don't have that. And you see it in the eyes of the women that I spoke to, you know, they walked for days without sleep, uh just trying to keep themselves and their families alive. Um most of the households in the north of Darfur where I was, where there are 700,000 displaced people in one stretch of desert. the The vast majority of those households are women-led households.

[00:19:18]>> Mhm. The men are either have either been killed or have disappeared or or have joined uh the the fighting groups. So, these women are literally doing everything they can to keep their families and themselves alive. There's a lot of humanitarian aid that's stuck in that Strait of Hormuz right now because of the war in Iran. Um how significant is the impact on the ability to give goods to those who need it?

[00:19:41]>> Yeah, it is truly what we say, you know, this is another element of the example of the cost of war, right? There's a human cost and then there's the financial cost, which also lead to human cost. We have currently about a half million stock still stuck in Dubai that we can't get out. Med- medicine um uh drugs um Cost of transport have gone up, as you hear everywhere. So, you know, the the plumpy'nut treatment for malnutrition for young infants and and and children who are malnourished is now what is it? 12 to 15% uh more expensive than it was before uh before before the war. So, and it takes longer to get there because we have to find alternative routes.

[00:20:20]Uh in in order you know, versus the direct route we had. So, yes, it makes it harder and our supply chain teams have are already who have to be incredibly creative and adaptive all the time because the logistics in the country are also incredibly difficult to get authorization >> Mhm. to I mean, the the tarmac road ended an hour after from the border in in Western Darfur. So, from then on in, it is essentially a very very rocky road. So, to get stuff there even physically is is takes days and sometimes weeks.

[00:20:58]Let me ask you about the Middle East. Um the White House says there is tremendous progress on implementing President Trump's 20-point peace plan in Gaza. I know you and a number of other organizations said 6 months into the Gaza ceasefire the plan is failing.

[00:21:15]Those are two incredibly different accounts of what's happening on the ground. What is happening on the ground?

[00:21:21]So, we've taken a 20-point plan and and we literally looked at okay, so what are we seeing on the ground? So, we we took the data our own staff accounts of what they were witnessing, publicly available data from the UN and others to say, okay, so is there less violence? Is there access and better access for supplies and for staff? And and we scored them accordingly. We've published the methodology and we stand by those by those facts as as we see them. There is still I mean we have 200 staff in in Gaza doing heroic work every day. Yeah. It is incredibly difficult for us to get supplies in. We cannot get staff in and rotated. So, no, that that plan as it stands is is not working.

[00:22:06]Ynte Sripada, thank you for the work you are doing. We'll be right back. Thank you.

[00:22:14]That's it for us today. Thank you all for watching and happy Mother's Day to all the moms out there. Until next week.

[00:22:21]For Face the Nation, I'm Margaret Brennan.