Therapist Reveals: The Real Reason You're Exhausted

Added: 2026-05-20

[00:00:00]Conversations with my therapist, episode one. When I hit 30, I decided that I wanted to try therapy because I was pretty miserable. I did this for a couple of years and it taught me so much about myself, coping mechanisms, how to be more self-aware, and rewired bits of my brain I struggled with. I do not believe that you do therapy and you're cured of all ailments cuz you are forever sort of working on yourself. So, I thought it'd be nice to have a catch up with Shane, my therapist, especially as he also wanted to tell me all about his new online therapy course he's created. And today we spoke about burnout and comparisons.

[00:00:31]>> How have you been?

[00:00:31]>> Yeah, not too bad. Seven and a half, eight out of 10.

[00:00:35]>> Feel okay. Feel okay. How have you been?

[00:00:38]>> I I you know what? I feel that when I reflect on how I've been. So the past couple of weeks I've been great. Prior to that, one might say that my brain was being like a bit of a glitchy was glitching a bit.

[00:00:52]>> Glitching.

[00:00:52]>> I would have to say that it looked like my brain was on fire. All right. How long's that been going on?

[00:00:58]>> I've been feeling the effects of burnout a lot more lately. And I think that like I go through these phases where I feel like when I'm calm, everything's Yeah.

[00:01:05]It's all right. Okay. I'm I'm in control. And then all of a sudden, a lot of life stuff happens and I kind of set on fire. I'm in a good place right now.

[00:01:14]I'd say what would you say? A green or a what was the other zone we talk about?

[00:01:18]>> So, quickly here's zones. So, you've got the green zone. This is calm, safe, relaxing, positive, resting, rejuvenating, chill, zen. A really nice and just a lovely a lovely place to be.

[00:01:32]The blue zone is which we get the endorphins and the dopamine release, you know, like so doing creative stuff. You feel motivated. You're doing things that you enjoy. You're sort of like productive but in like a good Yeah, cool. Loving it. I'm getting enjoyment.

[00:01:49]This is filling my cup. Then you've got the red zone. This is where you feel pressure, stress, fear, negativity, anger, frustration. When you've taken on too much, it's just getting to you a bit. You know, the gray zone is burnout.

[00:02:04]And that's when you get lack of motivation, self-doubt, tired, freeze, fight or flight, dissociation.

[00:02:11]Everything is just it's too much. You can't, you don't want to. No more. I can't. Please don't. And then you've got the black zone. This is bad breakdown, hopelessness, cognitive shutdown, self-loathing, total apathy, anger, desperation. You don't want to be in the black zone.

[00:02:30]>> I say blue and green is it is where I'm at right now.

[00:02:33]>> Rather than I say burnout, I call it the gray zone.

[00:02:36]>> The gray zone.

[00:02:36]>> But but if you've in been in the red zone, which is work, work work and too much pressure.

[00:02:41]>> You know what I think my issue is? And I've I've spoken about this on here before on my channel. I do not believe that I have a lot going on. My dayto-day, my life, my social life, everything is is on paper very, very manageable. The thing that I struggle with when it comes to feeling burnt out is actually the way that I'm processing everything that I need to do. So, this is like a form of rumination where essentially I will think of everything that I have to do in a day. I'll go for it mentally. I like, right, so then first of all, we got to go to the gym.

[00:03:14]Then we'd got to get ready in the and then yeah, okay, that's fine. So the the to-do list is done and then I'll go back to the top of the list and it will be like this loop, >> okay, >> all day, every day for for a period. And then because my brain has been working overtime, I as a individual then feel >> exhausted, >> exhausted. And it's like it affects like nearly every corner of of life. If you just think, I can't be bothered to go for that walk that normally would bring me joy. I can't be bothered to see my friends or anything else that's added to the list just tips me over.

[00:03:50]>> I think that going back to the top of the list and going through it and rumination is a good word is that possibly the list is um too hard >> or or too long >> or you've you've not got enough time.

[00:04:01]The second thing is you need to put bits of green into what might be a red list.

[00:04:05]You say to yourself, okay, do I need to do that today? Can it wait till tomorrow? And you'll find that some things keep moving because they're not really that important, but you don't have to think about them because you placed them over there. You place them over there. This doesn't work for everybody. It's not the list per se.

[00:04:21]It's how you've how you've um planned the list.

[00:04:24]>> And then the deeper thing is how you think about the list, which is you're going back to the top of the list possibly to reassure yourself that you can do it. So you spend all of your time rather than being effective. So, I have this story when I talk about red boxes.

[00:04:40]So, I have 20 red boxes and in the 20 red boxes, >> yeah, >> in the red boxes, there's a job. I open red box number 20. I look in, I pick it up, I do the I do the job.

[00:04:51]>> Mhm.

[00:04:51]>> I might just peek into box number 19, but the rest of the boxes go out there.

[00:04:56]>> I'm not allowed to look in those boxes until I've done box number 20. So, I do the box number 20, push it across there, and I pick up box 19 and blow me down.

[00:05:04]another box joints into the queue, but I'm not going to think about that box.

[00:05:07]But then what I'll do is I'll say, "Well, I'm going to work on this box half now. Then I'm going to go for a walk, make a cup of tea."

[00:05:13]>> Mhm.

[00:05:13]>> And then or just do something.

[00:05:15]>> Yeah.

[00:05:16]>> And then that takes that puts you into the green or do the 20 20 m 20 second stair, something like that.

[00:05:22]>> This is this is it. So I remember you telling me about the box. Sometimes my brain will just physically cannot just cannot imagine those boxes anymore and it just becomes a wall. So I fixate on trying to get everything done or I fixate on things that really aren't that important or I just cannot perceive the importance of a job. So everything is the same priority, right? And I cannot perceive either. And I think this is uh this is definitely an ADHD uh trait. I cannot perceive time particularly well. All of these tasks are either the same priority or they take the same amount of time or I don't I can't even picture the time it takes.

[00:06:04]Everything feels at equal intensity. So it sometimes even though the list might be very manageable or not particularly long, it just feels like a wall of like obligation.

[00:06:14]>> So what I think this is is a it's a form of anxiety. what you just said is irrational because obviously >> doing something complicated and taking the bins out has a different mental process and a different you you don't need as much mental activity to take the bins out hopefully if you can rationalize things and this is your bog standard CBT if you like cognitive behavioral therapy you might want to consider marking it well that's an eight out of 10 bins one out of 10 >> and it it's if if you do that you say right I know where that stands on the scale that's a one out of 10 bins >> yes cuz that's different thinking that's only 5 minutes and or that's an hour because I still think of the time as a concept doesn't really work for me, but a scoring might be better because it's a different way of looking at it.

[00:07:00]>> I've got a um digital calendar.

[00:07:02]>> Mhm.

[00:07:02]>> And I'll put things in like really silly things like makeup tea >> and it'll be a tiny little sliver, you know, cuz you've got it down to five minutes.

[00:07:10]>> Yeah.

[00:07:11]>> So that helps me as well visually >> and I know you're a visual person. you sort of visually slices of green in there where I'd say go for a walk.

[00:07:23]>> But if you've got a tiny little bit that says put bins out and it's this thick and then you've got your other job that's >> visually >> that does help. It is almost like an anxiety. I get my chest feels tight and my brain just goes in these like repetitive >> okay >> and then I end up feeling burnt out. I don't like saying I'm an all or nothing person because I do I do think that it's good in some respects but like I hate that about myself that I can't I'm either like doing everything a thousand things literally you know firing from all cylinders and then being just like a sloppy mess on the floor like >> you are you are fairly active let's get that right so acceptance you are active you walked up Snowden recently didn't you some time ago I remember you telling me >> we didn't walk up there fast all the Did you?

[00:08:12]>> No.

[00:08:12]>> So when you stop, >> oxygen goes into your muscles >> and you have a break and you have a rest.

[00:08:19]>> It's the same thing psychologically. And and we do know there's a direct correlation between what happens between our ears >> and this thing we call our soul >> and physically. So physiologically we feel tired. And then you'll get this secondary psychological thing saying I'm failing or I've got to get this done.

[00:08:36]And then that will compound that. And then you'll edge into this a bit of overwhelm if you want.

[00:08:41]>> Yes.

[00:08:42]>> And it it's a case of I'm going to use this term. I use this term a lot. Unique because everybody's unique. Contented because >> contentment for you and me. We both work hard and we like to achieve stuff and we and we >> but finding the balance and that's the final word. You need contented balance.

[00:09:02]So you get your >> balance right. I think that what you're talking about here and avoiding the gray zone is easily achievable. I'll rephrase that is achievable. It will take some effort. Yeah. Because it's just changing the way you approach your um your pattern of work.

[00:09:21]>> Mhm.

[00:09:22]>> And behavior, >> working out a plan. And you might not get it right first, second or third time, but eventually you will get it right. Mhm.

[00:09:28]>> This the other thing I was going to say is when you said um I'm fine this week, I'd like you to look at the weeks when you're fine and say, "What am I doing this week? How am I achieving being fine?"

[00:09:37]>> Yeah.

[00:09:38]>> How can I replicate being fine?

[00:09:40]>> Yeah.

[00:09:41]>> And what causes me >> for that then to shift into being discombobulated and feeling pressured?

[00:09:48]>> This is something that I've just started to be a bit more aware of and and action. I think about the weeks where I am feeling good. what what have I done?

[00:09:58]My morning routine is the same every day. I've worked out. I've had that bit of time in the morning for me to just >> Yeah.

[00:10:05]>> work out, but also figure out the day.

[00:10:06]My to-do list isn't crazy long. It's really manageable. And I've put in >> enough little breaks in the day.

[00:10:14]>> And then I've stopped working or being on my phone at like 6:00 7:00 p.m. And it's then me and Finn time to relax. And I think that actually being aware that I need space in the day. I need time to think. I need time to restore. And I need my on and off times. When I'm feeling burnt out or I'm trying to be super productive, it's because I feel guilty that I perhaps aren't achieving as much in the day as I think I should or I'd like to.

[00:10:39]>> So is is super productive.

[00:10:42]>> You're running up Snowden.

[00:10:43]>> Yes.

[00:10:44]>> When really what you got to do is you've got to walk up Snowden fairly steadily and then take breaks. And I think that you you it sounds to me like you you you you virtually know what to do. It's just a case of are you actually doing it and are you disciplined enough to create a habit. I I think that going back to the major premise of um of how you can be easier and not ruminate >> and then overwork. You are spontaneous.

[00:11:09]Let's get that right. You are spontaneous and um at the same time most human beings like a bit of consistency.

[00:11:15]>> Yes.

[00:11:16]>> And they like certainty.

[00:11:17]>> Mh.

[00:11:18]>> So your little habits give you those certainties. Just just as a point, I don't use the D word because I don't think it's a disorder. I use the T word which is a tendency. Yeah.

[00:11:27]>> ADHD because it's a tendency and certainly your case that part of your mind gives you um this wonderful abstract quality which is creative.

[00:11:37]>> Mhm.

[00:11:38]>> But having that sort of a mind means that you might have to do some boring stuff and actually plan to plan >> and then make sure you're okay with the plan. So when you sit there, your felt sense instead of go, oh, like this, you go, that's okay.

[00:11:52]>> Mhm. Yeah. I wrote a really long to-do list the other day cuz I had a big shoot list, like a lot to film in a day that I want I wanted to film in a day. And I felt almost a little bit anxious writing it because in my head I was like, I'm not going to be able to do this today.

[00:12:05]>> What do you think I'm going to say about that you just told me? Well, what do you think? Because >> because I think if as you're writing it Yes.

[00:12:13]>> Okay. And you think you think, yeah, I'm not going to do this. Yes, >> I'd take time to stop and consider. You stop, you look at it and consider and think, >> would I feel easier >> if I did 2/3 of it? So, if you give a person enough time to do 10 jobs, >> y >> Yeah. But then you give them 15.

[00:12:30]>> Okay. They're going to feel like failures because they've only done 10.

[00:12:34]>> But if you give them um enough time to do 10 jobs, you give them six, >> they're going to feel like a success because but they've only done six jobs, but they'll feel like a success. So, it's I'm talking about how you're feeling, not your productivity.

[00:12:46]>> Since I've taken ADHD medication, >> yeah, >> I've become a lot more focused >> and I feel like I can I do less, but what I do do, I do well. Whereas before I was doing a lot of stuff, >> chaotically, making a lot of mistakes.

[00:13:01]>> I was feeling great though because I did lots and I need to be able to accept that you can't do as much, but what you do, you do it well.

[00:13:09]>> So, that's quality over quantity.

[00:13:11]>> Yes. And quality. Good quality over bad quantity.

[00:13:14]>> Mhm. Yes. Good quality over bad quantity. I like that.

[00:13:17]>> Do you?

[00:13:18]>> Yeah. I wonder could it be possible that after you know like how when I started doing this as a job uh I had a lot of people in my past like mock it or downplay it or make me feel silly. Do you think that my need to achieve a lot in a day or be productive in a day is almost like a subconscious like >> might it be even that subconscious? So self-awareness usually takes us back to our past, our learned behaviors and our conditioning from our past >> and those experiences and how we experience um those experiences based upon that foundation. So my father didn't speak to me much. Put me down. He put me down quite a bit. I had several teachers say you'll amount to nothing.

[00:13:58]looking and then so I'm working my backside off >> panicking and stressed and irritable and low and antisocial and I'm thinking I'm not enjoying life but I'll show those bastards. Then I look at it and think all these bastards are dead.

[00:14:14]>> What what what am I what am I thinking about? Why am I trying to prove to dead people and think it's not the dead people is it's yourself?

[00:14:21]>> Yeah, >> you're doing this thing and you are being driven by something that doesn't exist. If you only live in the present and the future, the past in theory doesn't exist. But unfortunately, the way we are built and and the way we have created ourselves individually is that the past does have it. So somewhere along the line >> and those people that mocked you >> are properly culpable of saying, "Yeah, you ain't going to do this."

[00:14:46]>> Yeah.

[00:14:47]>> And you've got a little bit of a fear saying, "I've got to keep doing this cuz otherwise they're wrong." The same way if someone says to me, "You're useless."

[00:14:53]>> Yeah. I think I don't now because other people's opinions >> other people's opinions are other people's opinions.

[00:15:00]>> My opinion of myself is that I'm okay.

[00:15:03]>> So their opinion is their opinion.

[00:15:05]>> Their opinion. I almost told you about that bloke. I was So I was running in tights, running tights and a and a and a vest.

[00:15:12]>> Yeah.

[00:15:12]>> And I meet my mate and he says, "You look like a dick dressed like that." I said, "No." I said, "You think I look like a dick dressed like this? I'm fine with how I'm dressed."

[00:15:22]>> Yeah. But I'm slightly concerned that you're concerned about how I'm dressed.

[00:15:26]>> Yeah.

[00:15:27]>> Very relevant to what I do because people have a lot of opinions on me. I often get it where it's very parasocial.

[00:15:35]So I get people that say they like I've watched you for 12 years or 10 years, but I'm disappointed that. And then I'll insert the thing that they're into they're disappointed in me about. And I at first will feel sad because they've they've dedicated like 10 12 years of their life watching me and I've disappointed them. But I have to remember that like I don't know them and the only people that that matter to me that I've disappointed are the ones that actually know me. And I find that a really sometimes quite a challenging thing to deal with because I don't want to disappoint people but I think it's kind of it's kind of strange and parasocial because I can't live up to everybody's expectations of me. That's the key because you're not in control of their expectations.

[00:16:19]>> No, >> they their expectations might be distorted.

[00:16:22]>> They don't know all the intricacies of my thought process and why I do things.

[00:16:26]>> Or they might say, "Ah, this person's the answer to all my ills." Well, they failed because I've still got ills. I mean, that's that's not your fault, is it? I mean, you you you don't set yourself up to say, "I'm going to cure all of your ills."

[00:16:37]>> No, I don't. I think it's kind of important for me now to understand why I see such value in being productive or being busy all the time. What does that look like for me? And actually, it's okay to slow down and implement a bit more balance and not be so bothered by what everyone else is doing. Like it only really matters on have I got a roof over my head? Am I content? Am I am I enjoying life? Why do I need to think so deeply and so hard and overwork myself to prove a point to people that or to something or someone to an entity?

[00:17:14]>> Why do why do you have you got an answer for that question? Why do you >> I don't The answer is I don't have to.

[00:17:19]And so therefore my idea of being productive and working hard I can create a new reality like what does that look like for me?

[00:17:27]>> Yeah. It's subjective. It is subjective.

[00:17:29]Absolutely. So if you say this is how hard I want to work, this is how hard I want to relax. I have this thing where I I plan to plan and sometimes I plan to do nothing. Most people haven't got the awareness. It sounds to me like you've you've got a a really good handle on >> it. It's a case and you even know cuz we've talked about this how to change it.

[00:17:50]>> Mhm.

[00:17:51]>> It's just that occasionally I have this expression, the ghost of the person I used to be comes back to haunt me.

[00:17:57]>> Yeah. From your experience, where where do you think burnout comes from? And why do people why does it happen to people?

[00:18:04]because what are they neglecting within themselves? Obviously, we've spoken about my experience, but like generally speaking, what would you say?

[00:18:11]>> Oh, that's a lot too big.

[00:18:13]>> Well, it's a big it's a big question because it's going to be different for different people. So, I can imagine I I've I've had a lot of people come to me and they've been burnt out because their boss bullies them and squeezes them so hard they have to do work or, you know, that's just too much for them to take on >> or they've got a lot of pressure. you know, they may have bills and debts where they've got to work really, really hard and take on two or three jobs just so they can pay those off. You're talking about almost a psychological burnout that can be alleviated by uh planning. And that planning, whilst it's rather difficult and complicated to actually sort out because it's um a learned behavior thing, >> you can do it eventually.

[00:18:52]>> Mhm.

[00:18:52]>> And yours comes from the fact that you have a drive where you want to do these things. And you mentioned earlier on when I did a really really big list and I I smashed it, I thought, "Yeah, I've smashed it. That's great." And you got a dopamine hit, sense of achievement, etc., etc. But I would say that's um it's an artificial hit because eventually if you keep smashing it, eventually you'll fall off the edge because you just get too tired because >> you're trying to do too much >> in a in a short period of time, your energy will run out. So that's what's happening. So if you think your energy is running out in whatever guys, it varies from person to person, but I would say that overwork in relationships, you can be with someone who is wearing you out emotionally somehow. So they they're either trying to control you or they're not understanding you or you just don't relate to them after a period of time.

[00:19:41]So that becomes tiring because you're trying hard to work at something that's never going to work. I will talk about chasing artificial dreams and so distorting your self-concept. your self-conscious is I can do this and you're going to do it and I ought to be doing this because that is what people say is successful and I want to be successful because everybody else seems to be successful and I want to be successful. So what you do is you really work hard so hard at doing something you don't necessarily enjoy you don't necessarily want to do and you you may be successful aimatically in terms of the fact yes I've made this amount of money or I've got this promotion or I've doing whatever it is but deep inside you think I don't like this and deep inside that's the bit will catch you where below your awareness or subconsciously you'll say we've had enough of this we're going to close you down now >> you burn yourself out I feel like because you've you're doing something that isn't sort of filling your cup especially Usually people my age and I've experienced it. It's like for example sometimes I'm like I've got this lovely house, my lovely life, but why do I still feel so unfulfilled? We have an idea of what we think is success or what we think is good for us >> based off external ideas, what we see on social media, what our parents were doing, even down to what our friends are doing. But like I don't think that there is a rule book to to to to that suggests that you know this is going to make you happy or this is going to be successful for you. And I think that it's interesting cuz I definitely have experienced in the last few years like do I want to be doing this forever? Is this fulfilling for me? And what I get go even go lower like why do I need to feel fulfilled? Why do I need to have purpose? What is purpose? What does that even mean? And what does that mean for me?

[00:21:26]>> Oh, then I go, "Oh my god, it's like the universe question."

[00:21:29]>> So, existential thought processes you you have got. But I mean, I think the thing is I think the thing is that um innately your genetics will have a driver. We have an urge to do something more.

[00:21:42]>> Mhm.

[00:21:42]>> Which is why lots of humans do stuff like, you know, let's go and conquer the North Pole or let's do this or let's do that. Let's go to Why do we need to go to the moon? We didn't need to.

[00:21:52]>> No, >> we did. But I mean there's loads of things that people want to do. You're born with that to a degree.

[00:21:57]>> Yes.

[00:21:57]>> And then there's a larger proportion of us that just cruise through life.

[00:22:01]They're quite happy to get on with life.

[00:22:04]So they are possibly more grateful >> Mhm.

[00:22:08]>> that they've got a nice house and you know all the things that um our parents might have think were desirable. Yeah.

[00:22:15]>> But if you are blessed andor cursed with this um drive that if you bite off more than you can chew. because you want to chase this dream, >> you might eventually choke on it, which is it's not worth it, is it? So again, it comes to that big boring word balance where your balance is your balance, my balance is my balance, everybody else's balance is their balance.

[00:22:37]>> So it's a case of do I want to do a bit more or do I want to say I don't need to compete with other people. It's what Helen wants to do. That's the important thing.

[00:22:45]>> This is very important. Well, I actually started saying that a couple of years ago. What does Helen want? But it's very easy to slip into this thing. this this thought process of what I think I should be doing based off what other people are doing. And so I use social media as an example because it's obviously my job and everyone uses it pretty much. You see what everybody else is doing and achieving and it's very hard to in that moment rationalize that that's everyone, not one person. So like you look at a wall of people, that person's going on holiday, that one's just got a new house, that one's just having a baby, they've got engaged, they've got this job, that's they brought a book, you know, the list goes on. So it's very easy to look at that wall of people and their successes successes and then compare it to you in that moment like, but I'm not doing that. I'm not doing that. I'm not doing that. So you start thinking, okay, well, I need to be doing more, more, more, more, more to feel almost accomplished. But then again, that's artificial accomplishment because that's based off comparing yourself to other people to something that is unobtainable and is unrealistic because you're basing your comparison off lots of people at once.

[00:23:49]>> The key word there is unrealistic, I think, because you you you might be able to do one of those things.

[00:23:54]>> Mhm.

[00:23:55]>> Because that one person's doing that one thing.

[00:23:58]>> Yeah.

[00:23:58]>> But very very few, matter of fact, virtually no people do all that stuff contemporaneously. They they just don't.

[00:24:04]It's just like an impossibility >> if they tell you they are doing it all at once. You might think they're telling porky pies. Then to compare yourself with those people. So comparisons are usually um very confusing >> and you just alluded to that. They they can they can destroy your soul because you're thinking everybody else is doing this when they're not. So that's an irrational fear which um is basically what anxiety is. So they'll give you that feeling in your tummy where you think, "God, I'm a failure."

[00:24:32]>> Mhm. when you're not.

[00:24:33]>> I guess really the question is if you're feeling burnt out, overwhelmed, and you're just sort of having this like midlife existential crisis, and you're in this constant like cycle of I'm burnt out. Okay, I'm all right now, but I'm burnt out. I'm all right now. And you're also questioning whether your your place in life, >> yeah, >> is worthwhile. There's a lot there's there's a lot in there, but I mean I would say if you're in a cycle, >> yeah, >> it comes back to this >> being aware of what's causing the cycle.

[00:25:08]>> And it'll be different for everybody. I know that's not what people heard, but it's usually to do with trying to do too much or trying to do something you don't really really viscerally want to do.

[00:25:19]You're distorting your experience by saying, "I'm going to do this because it's going to be good for me when really it's not good for So you got to work out >> what is good for you >> and probably more pertinent what is bad for you. Then then you then you ask about um what can you do about to stop that >> once you're aware of it you can say right this is what's causing me to feel like this. So when I'm feeling good I will be aware of that. When I'm feeling bad I'll I'll be aware of that. Then I'll try and reduce what makes me feel bad and I'll try and maximize or optimize what makes me feel good.

[00:25:57]Reality is it's never always going to be always good.

[00:26:01]>> No, >> but it's getting that that boring word again, balance where you get that balance where you say, "Okay, why did I feel good this week?" And write it down if you need to. You you have to find out you have to find out what's wrong before you can put something right. Then you have to possibly accept there are some things you can't change. And then there's adaptation. How can I adapt and move forward? How can I adapt and move forward? You have to expect and accept setbacks and also review and revise your forward movement. So as you move forward, you say, "Okay, that's not quite right, is it?" So you adapt again.

[00:26:34]You review and you revise how you're moving forward.

[00:26:38]>> I've taken on board what you've said. A lot of the stuff is just like I know it.

[00:26:42]like it's already in me. But to have someone like you almost not validate it but almost reiterate it in a in your professional manner, insightful man, wisdom, all the experience. It's just sort of like, yeah, really need to stop being so hard on myself or stop trying to have all the answers.

[00:27:03]>> Once once somebody's decided how they want to change, we have got the tactics and techniques to actually change. But it's a case of saying we develop tactics and tech techniques and methods and systems whereby you can it takes some time and it takes some effort but you can change.

[00:27:20]>> Yeah. And it comes from a place of want to I want to do this for me not that I should should be.

[00:27:28]>> Yep.

[00:27:29]>> Yeah.

[00:27:30]If you liked our conversation today and are also interested in therapy, Shane has created an incredible online course that you can get 30% off with my code in the description. Thanks for watching and we'll catch up again soon.