The Parent-Child Relationship: The Primary Place of Wounding or Healing | Dr. Ermine Leader

Added: 2026-05-31

[00:00:00]Mhm. Thank you. You see what I told you?

[00:00:03]All right. But I'm not ashamed. I'm learning. I'm a lifelong learner.

[00:00:09]>> Amen.

[00:00:13]>> Okay. So really the bottom line of this presentation although it says little hearts are not imu im immune the message really is the parent child relationship is a primary place of wounding or healing in the life of the child.

[00:00:32]Are you with me?

[00:00:35]So why does this topic matter?

[00:00:44]You hearing me still right?

[00:00:46]>> Then good thing goodly.

[00:00:49]Clearly.

[00:00:49]>> A couple of things. Let me go as quickly as I can. Children's brains and hearts are still forming. They are uniquely vulnerable to emotional and relational pain. The home is the first and most powerful environment shaping a child's sense of who they are, safety and God.

[00:01:10]But often enough in our society with both parents at work, hear me now, if they happen to be two in the home.

[00:01:18]That's one. The safety assumed is not experienced.

[00:01:23]Did I make sense? We think our our children are safe and they're not cuz we don't know who is doing what to them.

[00:01:30]And many parents absent during the day are preoccupied and too tired to really embrace and nurture their children when they get home at evening. Be careful then my dear parents and others with what we assume regarding our children and our expectations of individuals.

[00:01:54]um our expectation of actually trying to be to make a buck and that keeps us very busy and in so doing we fail to sit to it that safe individuals are helping our children in our absence. Did I make any sense there?

[00:02:16]Know that trauma does not wait for children to grow up. Instead, trauma lives in the body, in the behavior, and in the spirit. And so, here's a call to the church to be a partner. And I really mean it with families in the ministry of healing and wholeness. Do not, by the way, although it's not part of the scope here tonight, let's not underestimate the impact of school and schooling on each child. I had to put it in there because I've been to education systems in different places and we may underestimate what is going on with them as a result of school. So we have four areas of focus tonight and you see them here on this screen right?

[00:03:13]Understanding children and trauma, building trust between parents and children, involving emotions, and equipping parents to respond well.

[00:03:27]Why does this topic matter?

[00:03:33]Do we know why?

[00:03:42]Look at what I have there. Children's brains and hearts are still forming.

[00:03:47]They're uniquely vulnerable to emotional and relational pain. That is how people treat them. The home is a first and most powerful environment changing shaping the child's sense of self, safety, and God.

[00:04:04]Okay. So and the others they kind of mentioned before.

[00:04:10]Let's talk about the first area.

[00:04:12]Remember we have four areas. So we're talking here about understanding children and trauma.

[00:04:19]So let's look at one a the first the first section.

[00:04:26]Are you seeing this? I hope you're seeing the screen. I guess you won't be able to answer me.

[00:04:31]>> Yes.

[00:04:31]>> Yes, we're still seeing.

[00:04:32]>> All right.

[00:04:34]Trauma overwhelms a child's developing nervous system.

[00:04:41]And so when trauma has been experienced by a child, let's please stop the wickedness of beating them. Why you wetting your bed again? Or they they revert to thumb sucking or they become clingy. And you know some others that are not here on this list. When you see a change in a child's behavior, even if the child is not your own, my brothers, my sisters listening here, know that something has happened.

[00:05:08]And so a person to approach that child would be someone that that person trusts, someone that the parents, and I'm talking about I know we trust people who do evil to our parent, our children, but you get what I'm talking about.

[00:05:23]Okay, here's something else to know.

[00:05:26]Children do not, we all know children do not have the kind of adult vocabulary to describe complex feeling. And so what they do, they do what they know best.

[00:05:37]They act out. They may become aggressive or they may disappear. Meaning they suddenly withdraw. All of those are signs, my brothers and sisters, that something is up.

[00:05:52]The third thing how they experience the pain and know that they feel deeply but differently even amongst children they don't all express themselves in the same way we I believe have been um familiar with the terms the terms fight or flight but some of us may not have no realize that they have had some other fs added like freeze meaning they fight they flight, meaning they move away, or they freeze, meaning they're too numb to move. And fawn means they run, they go along with it. They fake that it's okay cuz they don't know what else to do.

[00:06:32]They are trapped.

[00:06:34]Emotional memory is stored. Oh, and by the way, when we're talking about the stress responses, they're those somatic complaints. They have headaches. They have stomach aches.

[00:06:47]They have some places aching them when it's really not aching them. But that's a way of expressing I'm in trouble. I need help. I need protection. Emotional memory is stored in the body. It not just only in the mind. And so don't be surprised at sleep disturbances and nightmares as experienced by by children.

[00:07:11]Now I must say to us that trauma is anything that overwhelms a child's ability to cope. It is not defined by the event. Note very well it's not defined by the event but by the child's experience of it.

[00:07:33]I know some of you from over there in our our sponsoring um church area, you have already had a presentation talking about the prefrontal cortex and different parts of the brain and and what they're involved in etc. So I'm not going to go into into that except to say children's brains as I think I mentioned before that are responsible the areas that are responsible for reasoning and emotional regulation which is the prefrontal cortex they are still developing is not developed until in the 20s.

[00:08:12]Okay, they're about the mid20s.

[00:08:15]The nervous system responds to threats to threat automatically. I just mentioned the four of them. But even in safe environments, that still happens.

[00:08:27]So where this is the case, can you imagine the toll on the body, the mind and the functioning always on the alert?

[00:08:36]And so do parents ever wonder when their children who are doing well at school academically and otherwise when they notice a change do they ever want stop to wonder what is happening and actually look into it. I invited you I invite you to do that. Um what do hurting children look like?

[00:09:05]They really announce their pain with words.

[00:09:09]By now you know that they do it with behavior. And so the question is what is the role of the parent, the teacher, the church leader?

[00:09:18]And that is really to learn the language of distress.

[00:09:24]That's the only way we would be able to help them in some small or not so small way. And actually when children come to us about anything that has happened to them, let us remember to res respond with curiosity rather than correction with calmness.

[00:09:42]No emotional outburst in front of the children. I think I have it in my notes later. I may as well say it now. When we do that, children somehow think they have done something wrong and it shuts them down. So we as parents need to regulate or you know adults older ones need to regulate ourselves and the way we respond to children when they're trying to communicate something to us.

[00:10:07]Okay. So what are some of the things to look for? Behavioral changes. We have um sudden aggression de defiance withdrawal from enjoyable activities.

[00:10:21]We see academic decline. We see shifts in social and relational, you know, connections.

[00:10:32]We may see regression to behaviors of a younger age. Bedwetting, thumb sucking, baby talk. There may be excessive clingingness, clinginginess. Just look at some of the things I have here. um they may become really preoccupied with themes like danger, death, abandonment and you will see some of it even in the way they play or in the art world. Don't be blind parents. I mean we keep them on this thing you know on on social media so much is not a good idea but um my topic is not about social media tonight.

[00:11:12]There needs to be interaction and interaction that builds that that draw you know family members closer that make children feel that they are part of something something good something positive even if there is some lack in terms of what we have you know what we have available to us. these things about parenting and and making children feel like they're part of something mi makes a big difference and it really helps with what's going on around us in our homes etc. Just look at what's going on socially and you see what I'm talking about. Um okay now there are some spiritual indicators and what I have here on the screen is questions about God's protection. There's fear. There's loss of hope. There's loss of joy.

[00:12:11]Children suddenly have questions whether God is real, whether he's good, whether he's present. You might see them no longer interested or less interested in things like prayer and coming to worship and things that they used to enjoy, faith activities that they used to enjoy it. they become less interested in them now based on what happened to them which you probably don't know or sometimes parents are the ones responsible for what happened to them based on how they treated the child or children um they are shamed and so they begin to believe God doesn't love me or I am too bad to pray so it's very important important when we respond to children to respond with curiosity be to be calm and like I said if they see we can't take it and we we emote a lot they're going to withdraw and then we won't ever know more of the story this we told in Psalm 34:18 the Lord is near to those who have a broken heart and say such as have a contrite spirit That includes our children.

[00:13:32]And so it's really important to engage our children in talking about what they're feeling. I mean, you you you look at this screen and you get an idea.

[00:13:42]It's important to teach children words that go with emotions and let them to be able to to practice it at home. You know, I feel really annoyed today, mom.

[00:13:54]Um and so yeah, you do. Okay. So, tell me what happened. And you let the And don't be too quick. Let's not be let's not engage anymore in this evil practice of as soon as a child or you know a teenager begins to tell us what they're feeling, we jump on them and say, "Well, no, it can't be that." No, we haven't heard them out yet.

[00:14:18]We need to hear them out.

[00:14:21]Okay.

[00:14:23]Um let's go on to sorry the next section is called teaching children to res recognize and to name their emotions.

[00:14:36]This is so important.

[00:14:39]Um it was done seagull who came up with this saying that you see there on the screen. Name it to tame it. It says when we put words to our feelings, we engage in the reasoning brain which helps to calm the emotional brain. This is not just psychological insight. It is a parenting and ministry skill in grounding that is grounded in truth. I I must say. So there are few things to be able to do in order to um to make this work effectively in our interactions with our children.

[00:15:21]Um and I just showed you a chart there.

[00:15:23]They could actually write put drawings have them draw different kinds of faces and actions and and and over time they put okay so what's the emotion attached to that? So they are learning to use appropriate descriptors for what is going on and what the be what behavior is being displayed. So four things uh in terms of our response to you know a child in trouble.

[00:15:52]The fourth step validate I see that you you you might be feeling upset. Am I right or what is it? because it's it's actually better to ask them what they're really feeling before actually suggesting the the name like upset here is not necessarily the first thing that needs to be said is like I notice that you know you you seem a bit off today what's going on for you what are you feeling right now they may have trouble telling you but you know you work on it and before it's really important to acknowledge something rather that your job right now is not to correct them naming the emotion is really helpful for the child. Um I'm feeling sad I'm feel feeling scared whatever the word is and then normalize you know we sometimes feel people everyone feels angry sometime mom dad we all do is and then what is important is what we do with what we are feeling never shame a child for the emotion that they experiencing and the questions the open questions is so powerful Because that child could take you around and back when they when they recognize that you're with them emotionally, you're listening to them and you're not quick to jump in and correct them.

[00:17:18]Can you tell me more about what happened? And my beloved adults, um there are times when we have sacrifice our children for people we have in our lives whom we think we cannot do without.

[00:17:42]I'm just going to say a little more about it. There are times when a son or a daughter, it could be either gender, would come to us to say so and so. So it could be been mother's boyfriend. It could be daddy's, you know, girl, whoever, whatever, or some neighbor that they've been asked um who have been asked to help or have volunteered to help look after the children. And because the parent me we the nervous parent the parent who is not that grounded because we don't we feel so nervous about what's going on and we don't know what to do and how to deal with this perhaps is because of things that has happened have happened to us when we were very small. We shut down the child and that's the end of that. our children become a sacrifice for our fear. So be very careful with that. It is in Proverbs 12:25 we read, "Anxiety in the heart of man causes depression, but a good word makes it glad." Let's be encouraers. Let's be encouraers.

[00:18:53]Um it's important as we move along to remember that building trust between parents and children like us as parents building trust and some of us haven't didn't know that you know way back when we were having our children and raising them. But as we grow older and as we get more information and are more exposed, there are times is often enough when we need to go back to our children or a child and say, you know, I did so and so or remember so and so. I'm really very sorry. I just was out out of it. I you know, so in building trust between parents and children, we talk about um creating emotionally safe and responsive home.

[00:19:40]I'm going to say a little more about that. And well, let me start there.

[00:19:48]I think I'll I I'll start there and say a word or two on that. Um we're told that the home is supposed to be holy ground. That's why fathers and I believe it also means mothers, parents, do not provoke your children to wrath, but bring them up in the training and admonition of the Lord. So there's no bullying here, no, you know, pushing our way through is nurturing them because they're learning. They're watching and learning from us. Okay. So the single greatest predictor they say of a child's emotional health is not the absence of adversity. Hear that is not the absence of adversity. However, it is a presence of a safe, consistent and loving caregiver.

[00:20:44]Bulby and Einworth who came up with attachment theory confirm was what scripture has always said about children needing a secure base. Do we know what the four pillars of an emotionally safe home are? I have them there before you on the screen.

[00:21:06]Predictability is the first one that regulates help children to regulate their nervous system around patterns. You see when home is chaotic and unpredictable, volatile, children are always bracing for impact.

[00:21:26]Routines, consistent meal times, regular prayer and stable expectations. These res reduce anxiety and communicate you are safe here, we love you here.

[00:21:41]They regulate their nervous system around the patterns that are going on at home. So remember when you see children misbehaving you need to wonder what's going on at home that keeps them on edge break and and even when something improves because their system has been um so have become so accustomed to expecting the next blow. They always on edge and they're just waiting for the next negative to thing to happen. And by the way, I believe by now you all know even a child who is doing well at school when there's so many things preoccupying the mind like worrying is that going to be drunk tonight? Is mom going to be screaming and asking those things? This kind of unpredictability actually keep them from doing their best and and can have a negative um impact on their schooling on their ability to learn their academic performance. What about warmth?

[00:22:47]You know there are some homes where hugs and smiles and a tap on the back those are not experienced but children thrive on affection on affirming words and physical presence one's physical presence signal to the child that he or she is loved unconditionally.

[00:23:12]So I talk to us who you know parents who are working outside. It doesn't even matter how tired you are when you get home. Spend a little time with the children. Let them tell you. Some of them they're bursting with anxiety. I mean in a good way to tell us what happened and then we shut them down by saying we tired. Go away go somewhere else.

[00:23:36]So we talk about predictability, warmth.

[00:23:39]What about repair? There is not a single home on earth that is perfect.

[00:23:45]But the willingness to repair ruptures is what will bring lasting trust. the child will say, "Okay, mom and dad or mom or dad or whomever or grandparent."

[00:23:57]Um, yeah, they they sometimes mess up and D, but one thing I could say about him or her is that when I tell them that how hurt I felt or when they realize how it has affected me, they actually come and apologize. So, and part of what would build this kind of thing is to spend time together and to model grace to children when they themselves mess up.

[00:24:27]Don't get on them. I mean, sometimes we're so hypocritical. We get on the children when they do stuff and when we ourselves do things, it's like, well, whatever. We take no accountability.

[00:24:40]Uh, and the last one in this section, children who are heard. Thank you.

[00:24:46]Children who are heard are children who heal. Did you hear that? Children who are heard are children who heal. If my child believes that she can come home because that's all we have. Our three are she can come home and say, "Mom, so and so and so and so happened." Instead of saying, "Girl, go for me. I'm busy here." And I said, "Really? We need to talk about that." Okay. Can we talk about that after dinner or after so and so and make sure it happens? That child is learning that his or her voice matters and actually this leads to healing. So we need to create space for our children to express themselves without fear of punishment. Do I have a witness?

[00:25:40]Sorry, I need to. Anyway, moving right along.

[00:25:46]I need to find it now.

[00:25:51]Sometimes in the busyiness of home life, of family life, of work, having to work with young children around or even, you know, those who are a little bigger, we forget. Oh. Oh, yeah. And and those of us who are always doing church work always be all kinds of meetings.

[00:26:09]Sometimes the meetings are waste of time anyway because people don't do the work they need to do in order to get to the meeting and get things done. Well, okay, I'm just saying it. I've lived with it for 45 years, so I know what I'm talking about. Doesn't mean every church has that. But we cannot be too busy. I don't care whether we work for food or we work for church. If we are too busy to take a break half an hour, you know, once a week, I got I think I have something there I will share a little later. If we are too busy to take time out to connect with our children, to have fun with our children, some people can't even make a move with the body and dance like that's unholy.

[00:27:01]Really? I wish I could really dance right now because my age is catching up on me. No sir, our children need to know there are so many ways and safe ways of taking a break. then they won't be that tempted by other people around them who are you know offering a a drug you know some drugs or something else but don't tell anybody they would less likely um gravitate to that kind of behavior are you with me my dear participants >> yes ma'am >> okay >> I'm talking about children >> and I believe some of you have heard and even said children must be seen and not heard.

[00:27:46]Is there a yes and a yes and a yes?

[00:27:50]>> Yes, I've heard that.

[00:27:52]>> Okay, let me drink a little water on that. Thank you.

[00:27:54]>> They even used to say ladies must be seen and not heard because I was raised in a family of girls only.

[00:28:00]>> Oh my goodness. Okay, we talk about that.

[00:28:07]I have here on screen something that came to me while I was preparing this.

[00:28:15]You remember the little girl who was servant to Non's wife?

[00:28:23]You remember Non was the commander of the army of Syria.

[00:28:30]And this girl was enslaved in Neymar's house, an Israeli girl.

[00:28:38]Eden is a teenager.

[00:28:42]And I'm sure that she heard a lot of discussions around her. Small donkey got big ears. Some of you have heard that children hear much of what is said and it says with them all the time. But then this little girl, oh, and by the way, there's the other one. The other belief and statement. Maybe y'all don't come from where I come from. But I have heard children must be seen and not heard.

[00:29:06]That is so wicked. That is not right in God's eyes. Because Jesus himself, by the way, said, "Let the little children do what?

[00:29:17]come unto me >> and don't mess with them because the kingdom is made of such like these Matthew 19:14 etc. Well, there's also another one. Know your place and stay in it. Well, if she was a um as a since she was a captive and she probably didn't even know the language of Syria too well, she should have known her place and stayed in it.

[00:29:45]And non would probably never have known healing from his leprosy. But this little girl, something about what she was taught at home back in Israel before she was taken as a slave to Syria, she had learned she had a voice. She had learned to observe well. and she had learned to walk with God and to know the impact of the prophet on things that were broken. And so she in 2 Kings 5:3 was able to go to and I imagine I I I wonder if she was 9, 10 or 11, you know, going to um Neon's wife. She's not named otherwise. Um and said to her, um there's a place there's a there's a a prophet in in Israel. 2 Kings 5:3.

[00:30:46]And I believe he can help her. He can help um your husband.

[00:30:52]And although there was some trepidation initially, Neon was healed.

[00:31:00]How did he know? How did he get to the point of being healed? Because somebody listened to the little girl.

[00:31:10]So I do believe children and our teens because of the warmth of their upbringing they are we are setting them up to be channels of blessing to others. Now that young lady who sang for us tonight, I don't know anything about her family, etc., etc., but someone must have encouraged her to pursue, I guess, a gift of learning. And young lady, if you like singing, you better know that you bless some hearts here tonight.

[00:31:42]So, let God use your gift and use it well.

[00:31:46]I'm saying in our homes, let's keep dialogue alive.

[00:31:52]Let's keep giving our children, our little ones, a voice. You see, the mistakes we made with our children, I know by God's grace, we're not making them with our grandchildren when they come by. And right now, we have them all three with us.

[00:32:10]So, we are going to the second area. Let me excuse me. Let me finish this.

[00:32:19]That is 2B. We already did 2 A. Remember the children, we have two ears, but we have one heart. And so here's the links I'm inviting us to make. When we tell people you shouldn't feel that way, we're insulting people. How dare how do I dare tell someone how they should or shouldn't feel?

[00:32:43]They're trusting us with something and they say, "I feel let them tell." And so an empathic response would be hm tell me more because I want to understand your perspective cuz maybe you've had a totally different relationship with the per person about whom that individual is complaining now and you know we like to say stop crying not all that serious how do you know it's not serious instead we can say I can see this really hurts I'm Yeah, whenever you're ready to talk some more about it, just let me know.

[00:33:23]Oh, and then those active children, you know, cuz children are very expressive, we respond to them by, there you go, overreacting again.

[00:33:34]Instead of saying to the child, your feelings make sense.

[00:33:40]Let's talk about what happened and see what we can we can um figure out and what plan we can come up with.

[00:33:50]And that next one, why can't you just behave like so and so for a chance for a change?

[00:33:58]That's the worst thing we can do because that child is not that other child. That person is not that other person.

[00:34:05]So appropriately a response could be something like something seems to be bothering you. Are you ready to tell me what happened? And if they say no, not right now, you say okay, whenever you're ready, before I go to bed, before we go to bed, you can come and tell me what happened. And when they come and they lay out their heart toward them, please don't go tell them. Don't jump on them as if they did something wrong. You ask the Lord to give you the wisdom in order to deal appropriately with what this child has shared. Are you with us?

[00:34:44]Are you with us? And so we're talking some more about emotions, you know, because they're really a big deal.

[00:34:50]Really a big deal.

[00:34:53]And we can't go wrong to learn some more and to learn how to do things better in you know the lives of those whom we love.

[00:35:07]So let me go down to the next slide. I know we have Psalm here Psalm 51:10 here that says create in me a clean heart oh God and you know the rest say renew a right spirit within me. We want to focus on breaking the not we want to we are focusing and ought to make every effort to focus on breaking the cycles of anger of silence of control. There are others but these seem to be as those who have done research the big ones. What we receive, guess what? We are going to repeat until we decide to stop. Until someone intervene and you know help us to wisen up and go, but you complain about what so and so did to you. What is it that you're doing? What is different what you're doing with your child? Okay, that's just one example because we as parents, most of us have parented the way we were parented when young even when that parenting hurt us unless we became very very aware of and determined that the way we were treated, we're not going to treat our children. Meaning we were deliberate about breaking the cycle. And you know what? with God's grace and with intentional effort. Families are redeemed. We are not just saved. We are redeemed. And so families like a year or two ago, we were, you know, were kind of all over the place and stuff.

[00:36:42]There are people who now will be looking at them and say, "Wait, I wonder what happened. They seem so calm now. They seem so cohesive now because Jesus was invited to be the leader in the family." Folk, a lot of what happens in our lives have to do with us being the leader and not God himself. I'm going to say it again. We get into a lot of stuff in families in other places where you know we have we have people all around us simply because and I'm saying and I'm going to say this without fear of of um correction or contest even in our church in our churches many many cases they are not places of safety.

[00:37:43]They are not places of safety because there's where some people go to flex their power or whatever whatever when Jesus is not in it. Okay, I'm not going to go too much on that but I'm saying it without fear of contradiction.

[00:37:59]And so Jesus, you know that part in um is not in my notes, but in in Revelation, I think it's about three, I'm not sure, my husband, one of those where he said Jesus said, "Behold, I stand at the door and knock."

[00:38:13]>> Revelation 20.

[00:38:15]>> Exactly. Thank you so much. Jesus is standing on the outside of our church doors knocking to say, "Let come in."

[00:38:22]And I can say more about that. Let's go.

[00:38:24]So there's a cycle of anger, explosive reactions. Know that these silence our children and teach them to hide instead of share sharing. And so what we need to do is to be regulated and self-aware so that I will learn my triggers before I use those on on my child. Are you with me? I need to know what triggers me and know it's not fair to kind of put them on our children when something maybe similar to whatever happened to us comes up. The cycle of silence, that's the other one.

[00:39:04]Emotional shutdown teaches children that their feelings are shameful or unwelcome.

[00:39:15]Did you hear me?

[00:39:19]How can we address that?

[00:39:22]Having proactive conversation. Ask them regularly. Not just when there's a problem. Just have conversation. How was school today? I can remember before co uh a Friday night worship was the best in our home. Why?

[00:39:39]Because at somewhere along the line towards the end of family worship on Friday night, everybody gets a chance to say how their week went.

[00:39:51]But then co took care of that because my husband had to make room for doing church and d but and even at times when my husband wanted to maybe go look over his sermon or do something in a Friday night like the children would say no no no they're not giving permission for that. this is our time. This is what they look forward to on Friday night when we could talk about our week. So, we don't only have conversations to address issues.

[00:40:20]We have conversations regularly because each of us, each member of our family counts.

[00:40:29]And let's look at this big one. We're talking about breaking these cycles.

[00:40:33]Breaking the cycle of control. Some people think they have to if they over control something, if they have rigid rigid hole on something, then this and this and that can happen. But we know the devil is so smart. We're so stupid.

[00:40:46]I mean, we are no don't have any wisdom compared to Satan's wisdom unless we stand in the wisdom of Christ. Quote me correctly when you do. So over control and harshness, these both breed fear, not respect. And it actually impairs healthy development. And not just healthy physical development, but healthy development amongst people.

[00:41:14]Because if I saw my dad control my mom and want to control everything she did and everything we did, I either will gravitate to a man who would do that to me or tell myself, "Hell no, I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to get myself into any kind of uh uh uh uh uh uh because something inside of us already told, you know, told us that that is not how God deals with anyone and none of us has the right to impose that kind of expectation and behavior on another person. So how do we break the the cycle of control? We have here gracebased boundaries.

[00:42:01]Gracebased boundaries.

[00:42:04]But these cycles can and these sorry talking about gracebased boundaries is mean it's about being firm. Yes, I said that. Yes, that's it. Whatever it is, we are consistent. We are firm but tender.

[00:42:21]Consistent yet compassionate. Are you with me? We're talking about a balance.

[00:42:27]So the gospel of the broken cycle, awareness, that's the first thing. We got to be aware that something is not right with how we're doing things. If we think what we're doing is God's best gift, we're not going to want to change anything. And sometimes, by the way, folk, we see something, we see a big problem. Sometimes we are not the one to go and approach the individual. It's someone who is closer to them or whom they trust is the best agent to go and and address it with take it on with that individual. So awareness the patterns that I have demonstrated in my home among my children and so on and so on. I I have to ask myself what is it that I'm really passing on to them?

[00:43:14]But healing will require honesty with God. Hopefully a trusted counselor and not I know a lot of us Adventists don't believe in counselors and often with your child. We need to be honest with our with God with our child even with our other spouse. If we are butting heads about how we need to be dealing with the child, the Lord your God is in your midst. We are told, you see, when we're dealing with these things and breaking all these cycles, our God is powerful. He is the mighty one who will save. He will rejoice over us with gladness. And he will quiet us with his love. Find that in Zephaniah 3:17.

[00:44:00]So, just want to put something in here at this point in time. What we're talking about parents is not about shaming you really.

[00:44:17]It's about helping us to become the kind of parent that Jesus would love to have had as parent when he walked as a human being here on earth.

[00:44:30]Breaking the cycle, my brothers, my sisters, is really acts of love and courage because that's what it is. It's not about pointing a finger. It's not about shaming anybody.

[00:44:47]But often enough in our blindness, we don't see what we're doing or we think we are high and mighty. Someone has to come and say brother, sister, whoever you are, this is not right. It is not right before God. And yes, so in our high house, we say who you think you be or however you put it in your language, whether it's whatever the language is, who you think you be, I am a child of God just like you. And we are told in the word we need to build up one another. and I'm trying to help you and help save the next generation.

[00:45:28]Are you with me? So, we're moving on um to remember and we're going to uh the next section which is strengthening consistent connection and presence.

[00:45:42]Remember that connection is not built in crisis moments. It's everyday life. It's in ordinary things in life. the casual dinner conversation, the drive to school, the bedtime routine, the prayer before sleep. These are the deposit or that call or that quick note to mom or dad. Um you know something happened today. I can't wait to come home to tell you don't come when they come home you're yawning saying oh I'm so tired.

[00:46:10]Okay. Um connection connection over any and everything.

[00:46:16]These are what is what are called deposits that accumulate into a relational account from which both parent and child can draw in times of difficulty. You know why? Because times of difficulty will always come. But it it is what we have built that will help us survive such times. Now research confirms that exactly what scripture models which is children need consistent repeated embodied presence. We're talking about patterns sable patterns not un not occasional grand gestures. I I've known cases where a parent let's say a dad really hardly ever reaches out to the child. He's not with the mother and hardly ever. And from time to time they will come and bring great big gifts. Children don't need that. Is the consistent small gestures knowing that they are seen, they are heard, they are loved.

[00:47:26]That is what help children. And if you can at some point in time remember Genesis 6 6 sorry Deuteronomy 6 6 and 7 I read it. It says you shall teach them God's principles diligently to your children and shall talk of them when you sit in your house when you walk by the way when you lie down and when you rise up.

[00:47:54]They are practical things. So talking about strengthening consistent con connection here are a few of them I have then here daily suggestions weekly and seasonally. So again connection is not for crisis moment. So what about family worship and prayer?

[00:48:18]What about face to face connect conversation? We've mentioned that before. What about physical affection?

[00:48:25]Guys, you guys remember the hugs? Like the tight hugs? Um, you know, as a little one or even you who are around little ones, they might hang on to your leg to hold on to your leg. High fives, pats on the back, you know, forget about these things. We allow children to have too much in their hands. And remember, the physical affection mean a lot more to them and it should to you too.

[00:48:52]So don't think by giving them their what you call the iPad and all those things those are the best gifts. I don't think they are. What about weekly presents?

[00:49:04]Because it's a present is a present dedicated one-on-one time for each one.

[00:49:10]One and one family meals without screens.

[00:49:15]And you can ask what was the best part of the week or the week so far and your long conversation longish conversation if you have multiple children might be but on Tuesday I'll talk to that one and my time with so and so will be on another day. You get me?

[00:49:31]It doesn't mean you have to put in those of you who are gifted with a quiver full doesn't mean you have to force it into one evening one day and seasonally review family values together. I think children really take the light in when they're asked what are some of the things that we need to put as as rules in our family you know things that we value in our family they take delight in in giving input also celebrate milestones and celebrate growth I remember last was it last summer our grandchildren were with us and we went we spent a Sabbath by a group that was camping cuz camping was my thing since I was what 14 you know the youth camp which we don't have here where we are I am in Ontario anyway um and we were visiting this group and sometime during the afternoon our second granddaughter um she come grandma grandma She lost her first tooth and it was a big celebration. I took pictures. We did this. We did that and had her smile. That's a milestone folk.

[00:50:51]I don't care how silly it is. That was an important milestone to mark. And so she probably have lost four or so by now. And she gives me that smile and she just empty spaces and so on. We celebrate. You know why the child is growing. It can seem silly but it make something of it. And then the other thing here which is similar create family tradition of safety and joy as traditions doesn't have to well creating traditions family tradition it has little to do with doing dangerous stuff it's more about things that bring joy bring smile bring togetherness and all the rest of it and so I'm coming down to this other section now and we're talking about we're talking directly to parents now.

[00:51:46]Equipping parents to respond well.

[00:51:48]Parents, we're talking to you. We continue to speak to you.

[00:51:56]Navigating difficult conversations and disclosures. See, what we need to remember is that we're never alone.

[00:52:05]And sometimes among us it feels like you know we are cut off from a a source and it doesn't need to happen that way.

[00:52:17]So I went through that one already. Just a minute. Just a minute. Okay.

[00:52:28]When a child speaks, they talk about navigating difficult conversations with disclosures and disclosures.

[00:52:42]We talk about this, right? I I mentioned this earlier. They hardly disclose pain in full sentences. And children, they tend to test the waters. They drop hints. They act out. And a child will finally speak. When a child finally speak, that moment is very sacred. So, we need to make room for that to happen.

[00:53:03]Here are the things to do to stay calm because your reaction impacts whether the child will tell you more.

[00:53:15]It's important to believe the child first and investigate gently later, not skeptically. You sure that person could never do that to you, guys? I know.

[00:53:26]Never mind. That's another topic. Thank the child for their courage. Notice that. Thank the child for their courage in telling you my mom long dead.

[00:53:41]I loved her for that because there's certain things as a you know a little child in I was very young when I went to school and I would come home and tell her she was a nononsense person and she would come and she would take on the teacher. I mean, I didn't find it as a joke. It's just as I grew, I go, man, that woman was bold. And she would even go to the education officer for a for area to tell that teacher not to mess with her child, whether it was me or my older brother.

[00:54:16]And we need to our children need to know that we are there for them. And for our children, what I said to them was, you know, when they were in school and so on, anybody mess with you, come home and tell me, well, you tell me the truth and you tell me the whole truth and I'll go bat for you. Some of you may have heard me say that before, but don't tell me and willfully leave out some things because then you won't have me batting for you. and I've had quite a few innings I could say to use uh cricket or some other term. Okay. So thank them for having that courage to come and tell you because not many children are given permission to come and tell the parent what is going on with them what they what they heard what was said to them etc etc and remind them somebody else's behavior is not their fault. Remember always to follow up with more conversation that is so needed. Please avoid panicking visibly because it will shut down the child and don't minimize what they say. Oh, I'm not sure it's not bad. How do you know that you're not in the child's skin? You're not there in the in the context. And as well do not interrogate. Just ask open simple questions.

[00:55:39]And we need to always remember to make promises only that we can keep.

[00:55:46]If necessary, if needed, if we are kind of lost and not sure what to do, that's why we have professionals seek help promptly. Do not carry it alone.

[00:55:58]And I have here since it was Alberta who asked me to do this presentation I'm sure you know whom to report things to if there are reasonable grounds to suspect that a child who is less than 18 years is or may be you don't even have to be certain but you you you see things you hear things each province has its own process but see I have the number here Um for for Alberta, the child abuse hotline operates 24/7 800 3875437.

[00:56:39]And on those of you are in Ontario, um I'll just give you the 8665270833 number. You can copy it down, but most of most of you are on your gadgets anyway and you can find that information. Some of us are too shamed to reach out for help. Too ashamed to reach out for help.

[00:57:00]Especially those of us who are semi advantages, we hide. And in hiding, we sacrifice our children and our relationships, not knowing that God would make a way through any and all situations that face us if we are faithful and as we are faithful to him.

[00:57:20]Moving right along. Um there's something they call responding with wisdom rather than reaction. We're talking about the pace framework for parental response. So let me start with with this PAC playfulness.

[00:57:39]Playfulness doesn't mean carelessness.

[00:57:42]It's about lightening the moment.

[00:57:45]Is not every connection that needs to be correction that needs to be heavy. You can't simply say well let's talk about this later. Remind me if I forget.

[00:57:54]Remind me by whatever day to actually da da da da because sometime you can come up with something positive about the child who is reporting something to you.

[00:58:06]Something about the child and say you know what I don't know why somebody would say that to you or do that to you because you're such a this kind of child and I really love having you around me. I don't know what I'm going to do when you go up and go off to college or something like that. Joy disarms defensiveness and it brings warmth. That's what playfulness here is about. This is not about, you know, diminishing stuff. Acceptance. It doesn't matter what has been done to the child or even what the child has done in his or her struggle. Accept the child fully.

[00:58:42]You don't have to accept every behavior.

[00:58:44]You can say you know what you did you said so and so we'll talk about that later but we must accept every person because an individual is not the struggle that they experiencing that he or she is experiencing. Are you with me? Curiosity before you assume ask a question and something like and this is this is an indirect question.

[00:59:09]Okay, you told me that. I wonder what was happening for you when that happened or just before that happened. What was happening for you? Because that opens the door for the person to tell you more, for the child to tell you more.

[00:59:24]Empathy is very very important. It's not sympathy. It's empathy.

[00:59:30]It's feeling with the person is walking the walk with the person. Empathy doesn't excuse behavior because even the individual may have been at some level of fault. That's not what this is about.

[00:59:43]It's about connecting with the person, walking with the person because connection, as we've heard, leads to cooperation. And if you haven't heard it, here it is before you. So guiding children through healing and stability with stability and care.

[01:00:03]Healing from childhood pain is hardly ever linear. Meaning it's not an event.

[01:00:10]It is a process. It may move in spirals.

[01:00:14]It may move f forward. It may move backwards. It may move sideways.

[01:00:20]And sometimes we parents who expect a straight path to the solution will become discouraged because our expectations are off.

[01:00:35]But parents who understand the nature of the journey will remain steady and that steadiness itself is a profound gift both to the child and to you. So they have five phases here listed in terms of five phases of healing. Are you with me?

[01:00:57]Stabilizing.

[01:00:59]Ensure physical emotional safety of the child.

[01:01:03]That's first. Are you okay? Come, let me give you a hug. You know the child likes so and so, likes to do so and so, likes to listen to so and so. Provide some of those. Diminish the stressors.

[01:01:17]Build a routine. And I have some scriptures look locations be below each one. Build routine. As I said much earlier, routine builds safety for most people including children.

[01:01:34]So we're talking about stabilizing. The next one is connecting. Be present consistently.

[01:01:41]No here and then you're gone and then they'll see you for a few months and so consistently. Now you the the child or in question may not be someone who lives in your home or lives with you but they have confided in you because you're the person they can trust the most. Be present consistently. Visit often enough occasionally or you know have some kind of routine. Is it once a week you're going to go to the home? Once a week you'll meet with the child or whatever or you and the child will meet someplace. Let the child however lead the pace of the disclosure. Often when a child discloses something, they only drop a little bit to see what you do with it. Let the child lead, then process it. In processing it, you may need to engage professional counselors when needed. You may need to talk to you that might remind you of something you have heard about before with you know involving certain families. You might find it necessary to talk to somebody from that area and ask how they dealt with it, how did it go, how did they process it and notice that prayer and therapy are not opposites because if that was so then I have been sinning all these years that I have worked as a psychologist helping people with their problems.

[01:03:06]Number four, integrate. Help the child to find meaning.

[01:03:11]You see, I don't know how many among us have ever climbed mountains. And some of you may not come from places that had mountains.

[01:03:20]Some places have hills. But even so, elevations.

[01:03:25]I like to share with people this.

[01:03:29]In order to climb to the top of the mountain, there must be obstacles. You cannot I've never climbed a mountain.

[01:03:38]I've been a climber. I wonder if I'll get it done at this age. But you know, I have so many have had so many um opportunities from high school days into universities etc to mountain climb. And here is what is very important in mountain climbing. There must be obstacles whether a big stone, a stream in my we call the waist them thing that hanging down and those those are my thing. People say, "Well, I mean, how you went hiking and you kept your pants not mess up because I don't drag myself my bottom and those thing, but I know how to hang on to the whist and swing across to the other side." What I'm using that to simply say is that as we go along, as we go along, we are we must face obstacles. But these obstacles we face in life are opening for us opportunities to go to a higher level. God doesn't keep us on the same level at all. We got to grow. We got to grow. Which lead us to flourish.

[01:04:46]Celebrate growth. We say, "Oh God, why me is well, okay God, you understand this. You know what this is about.

[01:04:55]I can't see it, but you see it. Please help me as I go through this. And as we speak of our child about their future and the hope, we give them the blessing. We tell them we we I like I really like to use this thing about mountain climbing because when you reach to the top of the mountain, nothing is blocking what you can see.

[01:05:16]You look all around, you know, I I stand on a mountain in Neas and I could see St. Kits, Sabre, St. Justaceious Monserat Antigga and a good day I could see Guadaloop.

[01:05:33]>> Yeah, Guadaloop. Yeah, >> Guadloop. Okay, I can see and I haven't caught even all the islands. But I wouldn't see them if I stay on the on the low ground. And in order to get up there, I've had to um overcome obstacles. Life is like that. Let's normalize life and and I put in cause.

[01:05:55]Notice me.

[01:05:57]Bad things happen, but God uses those things to grow our faith. And if nothing else, I hope that you can take that along. And now prayer. The church has a role. And I don't want to stay I won't stay too long on this one. And I didn't even want to say has a role. We have roles to play. pray intentionally for our children and with the children and the families of of our congregation is not notice earlier I think I said it takes a village in the village whatever that village is whatever section it is offer parenting education and trauma informed family ministry is very important but it has to be relevant train children's ministry leaders to recognize signs of distress and Hear this one. Create please, please, please, safe spaces where children are seen, heard, and celebrated.

[01:06:56]And sometimes you might hear something on the road that happened to the child or that the child did, and nobody, you know, you're not hearing it in church.

[01:07:05]But you're going to maybe whisper to the parent or the child and say, "I heard so and so. Is that so?" And then he said, "Church, you guys got we have to we have a hero in here or a hero in the making and we are when I said bigging it up, I'm talking about encouraging the child.

[01:07:23]Connect struggling families with professional Christian counselors.

[01:07:28]Module a culture of emotional honesty and grace from the pulpit and elsewhere within the church. Lord have mercy."

[01:07:37]Okay, I'm going to resist that temptation.

[01:07:40]Be truly a part of the village that values, a village that protects, a village that by our actions sends children the unmistakable message that they matter because they matter to God.

[01:07:54]And if they matter to God, why should they matter less to us? May God be with us as we do what he wants us to do on this issue.

[01:08:11]I'm done.

[01:08:18]>> Amen. I I feel like I want to say amen.

[01:08:20]Hallelujah. Thank you, Jesus.

[01:08:24]This has been powerful.

[01:08:28]This is powerful.

[01:08:31]There are just so many gems, so many takeaways there. It is just I'm just in awe of the wealth of information and I want to say thank you so much Dr. Leer. Thank you for allowing God to use you and thank you for answering the call to be a part of our program. I am sure that we have all learned something or we were reminded of something and by God's grace we can walk away with intentionality knowing that God is able as long as we're willing he is able to walk with us. Now we are going to go into our question segment. If you have if there are any questions you can raise your hands and then you will be at knowledge your virtual hand you will be at knowledge and then we will go in that order and the first one is pastor Charles that's Dr. leader's um husband.

[01:09:43]>> That's right. Thank you. Thank you.

[01:09:45]Thank you, sister. I mean, for that presentation, I can say I know that she did put a lot of time and thought into it. But a question for you, um Dr. I mean, I am not a parent anymore. I'm a grandparent.

[01:10:03]How might this be relevant to me? What kind of responsibility do I have?

[01:10:09]We've raised children already and I sense that a number of us here are out of childbearing age.

[01:10:20]What's my responsibility as a as an older person?

[01:10:29]>> Young man once a parent always a parent.

[01:10:33]Baby >> have mercy. So our children have left our home and we have reason to reflect on how did we do with our children.

[01:10:49]What are some of the ways in which we may have failed them and we need to do due diligence by talking with them and you know asking pardon and whatever explaining stuff because we didn't do it totally right. We did better than our parents but we didn't totally right. Didn't do it totally right. And then we have grandchildren and we have it's not just grandchildren there other children. Our approach to children now should be much more in the line of who Christ is and who he made us to be than when we were learning the hard ways, you know, with our own children. I don't know if that makes sense.

[01:11:33]>> Yeah, that's right. And just a quick followup, am I hearing from you then that um I I need to be more like Jesus, learn from him and how he interacted with children and and and follow him. Yeah, >> that's right.

[01:11:49]>> That's right.

[01:11:51]>> Yeah.

[01:11:52]>> Cuz some children would tell you they prefer they prefer their grandparents than their parents. Cuz grandparents often enough at a place where they have more time and and spend more time and give more space and do more with the the with the children than the parents are able to.

[01:12:10]My last thought my um just perhaps from observation and it may be rhetorical I don't know but um and you spoke about it what what should my attitude be to children I I some of us some you know sometimes we are I am hard I am rough I am tough is part of your appeal to us to me to be kinder, gentler, fair, firm, not the same old perhaps some of the treatment that we receive. Is there the need for being more like Christ even from your observation?

[01:12:58]>> Always, always.

[01:13:00]And as we deal, as we grow older and we deal with the younger ones, we see mirrors of ourselves if we are really paying attention.

[01:13:08]And we could remember oh I remember doing that and now what was helpful in this stage what was helpful for example eating you better eat up all this food I mean I'm not saying we did it but this is something that we would have heard right but as we are around other children it's like okay maybe the ch child doesn't want that doesn't is not accustomed to it and maybe it's an opportunity to introduce it to the child little by little in other words I believe raising children nowadays require quite a bit of patience which parents we were more lacking on and I'm not saying all parents but as we you know as we interface with the generation after our children we have an opportunity to correct those mistakes that we made with our own children and it's really about device.

[01:14:08]>> Thank you, K. Rest my case. There may be others.

[01:14:14]>> All right. Thank you. Do we have any other questions or thoughts, feedback?

[01:14:22]No, I take it that we're all Oh, go ahead, Pastor Ali.

[01:14:27]>> Yes, sita.

[01:14:29]>> You made mention of the regular proverb. It takes a village to raise a child.

[01:14:37]What added benefits does that have that it takes a village because we see that the villages are fractured now.

[01:14:49]>> Yes. A village can make a child or break a child. Can build a child or destroy a child. I'm talking about a village um in which parents we surround ourselves by people whom we we we trust.

[01:15:06]Um and sometimes you know small groups of parents within the village. I'm not saying the whole village is worthy, but we got to pick from we we when parents stand by themselves, the pressure is a lot more devastating than when um someone or a few others in the village, the literal village, whether it's within church, within our school area or whatever, can step in and say, "Okay, I could help with this."

[01:15:37]Others may have I'm not even I remember once uh just before my mom died so I was 12 going on 13 a lie was told on me about matters sexual matters um that I said about somebody and it's like I don't even know what they're talking about. I don't I I don't I don't know what they're talking about. And I was visiting the home of the person in our village who to me u was like a mother to my mother cuz my mother's mother lived in in a different village. And that lady turned to my mom.

[01:16:19]I I'll tell you in English and said to her, "You don't dare put your hand on."

[01:16:26]I don't believe she said that. And if you put a your hand on on on today, we're going to fall out.

[01:16:34]To me, that was part of my village standing up for me. Even though I didn't know how to say it to my mom, except that I don't know what these girls are talking about.

[01:16:46]I don't know if that helps.

[01:16:48]>> It's not the whole village who is going to help, but there are choice people within the village, within the group, within your your church. Because there are some people within your church, your children should never be around.

[01:17:01]Maybe not your church, but most churches I know.

[01:17:04]>> So, I mean, why did you rob us the NIV Crayon? I' I'd have loved to hear it.

[01:17:11]>> Whatever.

[01:17:13]>> Sorry, Josh.

[01:17:21]>> Sorry, but I hope that answered your question.

[01:17:23]>> I didn't mean to take a thunder.

[01:17:28]There must be se is although we're saying select um a village we must be selective in that village. And by the way you see some people look about their own children. That is a big mistake. You know why? Because our children mix with their children. So we should be interested in other people's children too. And if we see something I miss, we may say something to the child, but we make sure we communicate that to the parent as well. This is what I saw. Talk to the child and hear what he or she says about it. Okay.

[01:18:03]Sorry.

[01:18:05]That's all right. Um Dr. Leer, you spoke a lot um about spending quality time and being present and connecting with the children. Now we live in a very fastpaced North American society kind of a lifestyle. How do we balance that the demand of everything that we have to do with that and more so when we're talking about um a single parent for example who have to navigate all of these um dynamics?

[01:18:42]>> A good question.

[01:18:45]Now you use the term single parent and I believe is for such people having a village concept that's very very important but it doesn't mean that everything has to be poured out onto other people because a child will still want to know am I important to mommy am I important to dad and so if if it means a few minutes at the end of the day to ask your child how was school today or how did you do today and you know just check in with them you're not strangers and then put time out whether on the weekend I mean some parents work weekend but arrange things rearrange things sometimes I'm saying a lot but sometimes we spend too much time running after things trying to get things trying to accumulate things when those matter less to our children than our interest in them.

[01:19:49]I can leave it at that. I think I think you guys could read enough into this.

[01:19:53]>> Yes. Yes. Thank you so very much. Do we have any other questions or feedback or comments?

[01:20:04]No. All right. I know it's a lot and some of us are still digesting the information and um we're just trying to Oh um Cheryl, go ahead.

[01:20:17]>> Yes. Hi, good evening. I just want to know if the um the slides would be available um like anytime later like the slides that you used for the presentation if they would be available.

[01:20:31]>> I haven't decided on that yet. said I guess I talked to sister Kan and and >> okay >> who asked me to do it.

[01:20:40]>> Okay.

[01:20:41]All right. So if there are no other questions oh Dr. Leer you are in demand persons are asking how they can get in touch with you. Am I okay in sharing your email address or do I give them through your manager?

[01:21:02]through your manager.

[01:21:05]>> Okay. I I'll send them to your manager.

[01:21:09]I'll send them to pastor um to pastor leader. Okay. All right. Um some of the highlights for me um the ones that I jotted down is the home should be holy ground. And I thought about that like even in my own home of raising our daughter that that's a huge responsibility.

[01:21:29]>> Mhm. But then if we put it into perspective, if we're driving towards and leading towards the heavenly kingdom, then it makes sense that the home should represent what we're thriving towards. Um, children who are heard are children who heals.

[01:21:50]That's very, very powerful.

[01:21:53]And for me personally, it's to know my trigger.

[01:22:00]before my own trigger is passed on to my daughter or she becomes >> the bearer of my own trigger. That's very very personal to me. Make room for regular conversation. Firm but tender, consistent but com but with compassion.

[01:22:20]And here is the the the the another big one. In hiding we sacrifice our children and relationships.

[01:22:29]And that is saying to me that if I am not dealing with my own trauma, if I'm not on my journey of healing, then ultimately what I'm doing is sacrifice what God has designed because he created relationships. He >> blessed us with children. Children are heritage. So this is really a statement for us that all of us who have healing to do, we should be encouraged that we're not just doing it for ourselves, but really and truly we're doing it for the people around us also and we're doing it to our children. You know, as you said that statement, it dawn and me that we love our children, we love our spouses, we love the people around us, but how much are we investing in taking care of ourselves so that we can really love them the way that God had intended for them to be loved and for us >> to feel that love. So that was another big one for me. And finally, I will say breaking the cycle is an act of love and courage. Sometimes, you know, when we think about breaking the cycle, we think about the pain, we think about the hurt, we think about it in a negative way because yes, it is heavy. It is a lot of work. You know, throughout the course of this week, I've been saying it's like a two-edged sword. On one side, it's hurtful, but on the other side, we can see the beauty that comes with that healing and that healing process, right?

[01:24:01]So this is a very good way for us to close is just for us to be reminded that breaking the cycle is an act of love and courage. And thank you again Dr. Leer for your powerful gems and for allowing the Lord to use you in such a mighty way. It is my prayer.

[01:24:27]>> Go ahead Dr. I was going to say you finish what you're saying and then I just want to say a quick >> Sure. I was going to say it is my prayer and my hope that all of us will do some soularching or continue to do some soularching because I know the work that that um has already begun in some people. But let us not bottle that in.

[01:24:50]let us know why we're doing the work and let us know who is able to help us through this process. And you know just this week I was saying to the presenters who are in person is that and the participants that we in the Adventist church we are blessed because we don't have to go outside to find people who don't know the principle and the concept of God but it's holistic. So we are blessed with persons like you and our presenters that we have in person this week and we pray that the Lord will continue to bless your homes, bless your lives as you lead and empower others as well.

[01:25:29]>> Thank you very >> and Oh, go ahead. Um I'm sorry. Go ahead.

[01:25:34]>> Yes. Um, I would be remiss if I didn't say thank you to Charles for, you know, helping me kind of organize things and also for coming home having been called away to hospital north of here for a young man we knew very well uh who is now in a coma. So, he had to take off and come back um to look after the the three grandchildren while I organize myself, focus on actually being here.

[01:26:04]And I see that um our eldest daughter, Colette Leader Coli, at least I see her name there. So I don't know if somebody's using a thing or whether she's actually there. So you and Pascal um thank you guys for the honor of coming on and husband. I mean you've looked you've looked at quite a you know who all live there. I haven't had the honor of looking to see who or scrolling to see who's there. But and thank you Kan for actually being persistent and all the stuff you did and when I had a question you would respond to me and Leo man.

[01:26:42]Okay, you know our conversation. Thank you very much for wheeling me in this afternoon.

[01:26:49]>> All right. And I also want to tell the folks Oh, sorry. Go ahead. I became so flabbergasted by what Dr. Leer said that I almost forgot what I wanted to say.

[01:26:59]>> What?

[01:27:01]>> Um Ken, I realized someone is asking about the recording. Now, this is on YouTube, is it not?

[01:27:08]>> Yes, it is on YouTube. It's on the Western YouTube page.

[01:27:12]>> So, they can go back and view it.

[01:27:14]>> Yes.

[01:27:15]>> Okay. So, so those who are asking, you can And what are the call letters for it? Just go to YouTube and look for West Edmonton. Edmonton SD. Yes, SDA church and you will find it.

[01:27:26]>> Okay. And just quickly before you close, >> I did belatedly sent out some um invitation to some folks and quite a number came on um Kon from St. Kits from the States here in Toronto.

[01:27:46]Remember folk, if I don't call your name, Jesus has called your name.

[01:27:49]Trinidad. Claudia, I'm glad that you made it on. And Angela Double L, you're there. Sister Alan, you're there. Um, there's so many others who are there.

[01:28:01]There two donors, you know who you are.

[01:28:03]I saw Seafford who is there. James Bachelor, you're there. And you also took time out to invite others to Evette. Um, Isaac, I'm glad that you came on also. the Marses, you are there and others. There's a sister Brown with an E and K. When you see that, that person's from the Eastern Caribbean.

[01:28:27]>> That's right.

[01:28:31]>> Celida is also there.

[01:28:33]>> Who's that?

[01:28:34]>> Celita. Celita is also Celita.

[01:28:38]>> So, we're just recognizing those who've come and um the others whom we have not recognized.

[01:28:44]Thank you very very much. Um we try care to have some sessions on Thursday night as my wife's time is available and also I will chip in sometimes but it's learning.

[01:28:58]It's learning and I know we're going to close now. We always close with a challenge. My prayer and my hope is that we will take to heart what we heard and um we'll endeavor by the grace of God to to improve not only for ourselves but for the ensuing generation.

[01:29:17]>> I really my case now and I thank you.

[01:29:20]>> Amen. Amen. I was going to say thank you to all the folks who are not members of the West Edmonton 7 Adventist Church for journeying with us um this evening. At this time, I'm going to ask Pastor Alli, our senior pastor, to close us out in prayer, please.

[01:29:45]Let's pray.

[01:29:48]Dear father in heaven, we give thanks to you for leading us into this study that we had. We thank you for the great reminder Sister Leita shared with us and helping us to remember the responsibilities we have as parents as godly parents in training our children in the way you would want them to go. We ask father that each of us may live our lives in such a way that it will be a good impact on the lives of our children so that they will be able to walk with you. You know dear father without you in our lives we will fail.

[01:30:31]>> So we trust ourselves into your hands and ask for divine wisdom so that as we interact in our homes in our communities in our churches wherever we are we will be able to represent you. Thank you for everything dear father and for blessing us with such a beautiful message. In Christ's name we