Christianity and Islam, while both Abrahamic faiths, differ fundamentally in their understanding of God, Jesus, and salvation. The Bible presents Jesus as the divine Messiah who died for humanity's sins, while Islam views Jesus as merely a prophet and denies the atonement. The Quran's theology aligns more closely with Roman Catholicism than Protestant Christianity, sharing doctrines like the immortality of the soul, Mary's elevated status, and the rejection of Christ's divinity. These core theological differences mean that despite surface similarities, the two religions worship fundamentally different conceptions of the divine.
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WUP 240 - One Seed, Divided Worlds, Christianity vs Islam - Walter V & Martin (Subtitle Indonesia)本站添加:
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[music] [music] >> [music] >> Hello and welcome to to this special episode of What's Up Prof. Hi Walter.
>> Hi Martin.
>> Are you doing okay?
>> Don't ask me. [laughter] Yes, I'm doing fine.
>> We're running around like headless chickens. But today we've got a very special guest.
>> Very special guest.
>> Would you like to introduce him because you've been working with him for quite a while.
>> Well, I've known Shabbaz for quite a long time and uh I'm very happy to be talking to Shabaz. He has an amazing testimony. People should listen to it.
and uh he is a wealth of knowledge and he's very active in his work and reaching out to the Islamic world and it's a privilege to speak to him. Hi Shabbaz. Welcome Shabbaz.
>> Hello Walter. Hello brother Martin. Good to be with you both.
Okay. So, we have also an interesting backdrop that will be leading into the discussion. But I think before we discuss this, let's have a word of prayer to open up our discussion.
>> Yes.
>> Okay.
>> Our heavenly father, we thank you that we can be able to do discussions like these. It's important, but it's also not that easy. So we ask that you be with us with the Holy Spirit and guide us through this in Jesus name. Amen.
>> Amen.
>> Amen.
>> This is a very controversial subject because there are so many opinions and so many views on this issue and uh I think it's it's a good time to put some things on the table to see exactly where we stand on this issue.
and is it relevant for the time in which we are living.
>> So thank you gentlemen for having me. I this is a privilege to be with you today and uh to discuss this very important uh subject something that is very near and dear to my heart as I have come out of Islam myself and uh converted to to be a Christian a 7th day Adventist Christian and for now I don't know for a few decades and I'm thankful to God for for for bringing me and my family uh to this wonderful truth. Um uh I love the people of of the Islamic world. I I come from it and uh my desire is to reach them with the gospel and but but there has been a lot of talk uh denominational talk and not just in our church but in other denominations as well. And regarding Islam, is Islam the same religion as at least is Islam's God, the same God as the God of the Christians?
Is there a similarity between Christianity and and Islam? Specifically between Seventh Day Adventist Christianity and Islam and uh who is Allah? Is is he the God of the Bible?
Can we trust him? uh does it teach the same teachings that we read about in the Bible? Um and I don't want to I don't want to digress nor I want to move on to something too quickly but these are questions that need to be answered. A lot of people when I travel in different places, uh, Adventists come and ask me, hey, uh, Pastor Shabbaz, please tell us what do you think about this teaching, uh, that is being taught right now or what what do you believe about Allah? Is he the God that we worship? And so, everyone is asking this question everywhere I go. It it doesn't fail everywhere I go. So this is something that we should be really opening up right now and bringing it to people's attention. So there's a so we're not in muddied waters anymore but that we have a clear understanding of what is truth and and separate truth from error.
>> Absolutely.
>> That's amazing uh that you talk about these things. Shabbaz I have of course not been as involved with Islam as you have because you come from there.
But I have dealt with uh with people in the Islamic religion and when I was a professor at the university uh my students some of them were Islamic and there was a large group of Islamic students at our university and I always enjoyed working with them because they are so serious about their faith And uh many of them of course regard Christianity as rather frivolous because uh you know there aren't these strict paradigms that the people uphold and they were always amazed because me also from an adventist background uh was I was different to the others because I held to certain standards and norms which they appreciate it. And also on the issue of creation and evolution, they were very much for creation and therefore they were often very supportive of me and I found them very sincere and I have been longing to reach out to them. So I share that sentiment.
But we are going to compare in our discussion uh two issues and two two paradigms and two documents. The one the Bible, the other one the Quran. And uh the question is can they be reconciled? Are they basically similar stories with a different angle or are they something else? And yes, for that of course I myself I haven't always been a seventh day Adventist Christian. I have been an atheist. I have been an occultist.
I have been a Catholic. I had a I had a whole series of of you know stages in my life. And when I was searching, I studied Eastern religions, I studied Hinduism, and I read the Quran very seriously as I would read the Bible. So I am familiar with the Quran and its writings and yes, we can have I think a fruitful discussion on this issue.
>> Amen.
You know, I uh the thing that just kind of jumps at me is is this um notion that somehow because Ishmael was Abraham's son, therefore because of that relation and Ishmael's relation to the children of the east, uh specifically talking about the Arabs, uh that suddenly Islam is now a religion that that is um basically fostered uh or or or or presented as a religion that is divinely mandated >> and that's related to Christianity.
>> Correct. Yeah. So because of that Abrahamic connection uh suddenly there's three groups. There are the Christians, the Jews, and the Muslims.
And they're called the Abrahamic faiths.
And um and this is this is this is a this is an important question. You know, Walter, when I used to work for Amazing Discoveries many years ago, um in one of the videos that was produced on that channel, um an imam responded to a particular presentation I did on the question of who is Allah. And that imam uh agreed with me. He said he said he said in the comment section of of that channel he said um I I completely agree with the speaker the god of Christianity and the god of Islam are two different gods. Now he meant it as evil toward us and good for him. Uh but but that was that was and he's right and I am I am of a firm belief that the gods of Islam and these are two different gods completely two different gods. We cannot we cannot connect them together. They're just not the same personality.
>> Yes. So if I can get the ball rolling, I would like to compare let's say the Bible with the Quran just to get a a basic uh picture.
Number one, the Bible is a historic book. It contains a lot of history and that history has been corroborated by the spade of the archaeologist.
Uh you know the science of archaeology is a very young science and uh basically it really only kicked off around about 1844 when uh it was possible to translate some of the uniform writings and uh decipher the hieroglyphics etc. So the Bible historically has been u attacked in many in many instances but it has been corroborated and the excavations that are taking place in the Middle East are just amazing on that level. The Quran on the other hand is not really a historic document as I read it and some of the history is uh different or let's say uh if compared to the Bible or one or the other must be out of sync if I can put it that way uh to put it mildly then the Bible also is a a book of salvation.
And the [clears throat] Bible is a book of prophecy. And again, the Quran is is a description of events and a description of Allah and the relationship between Allah and his people. But it is not a prophetic book in the sense that the Bible is a prophetic book with very distinct prophecies, very distinct timelines. And these prophecies not only affect uh kingdoms and powers that would arise on this earth and those that would play prominent roles in the his in the history of humanity culminating into in the setting up of the kingdom of God.
And then the cor the Quran and the the Bible differ in terms of the central figure. The central figure in the Bible is the Messiah.
And you read the prophecies of Daniel and there are very accurate prophecies like Daniel chapter 8 and 9 that tell you exactly the year in which the Messiah would be born, what his mission would be. And then you pick it up in the New Testament and Christ fulfills every single one of those prophecies. And they are exceedingly precise prophecies with timelines and events. And it also talks about the the change over from Israel, literal Israel to spiritual Israel. And it all revolves around this Messiah who uh in the New Testament is identified as Jesus Christ. And the big problem there for Islam or compared to Islam is that this messiah is divine.
So uh Jesus Christ is described in the Bible as the divine messiah and John makes it quite clear in the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God and that he is the creator the one who spoke everything into existence whereas Islam recognizes him only as a prophet and then there are certain powers which are um portrayed in in the book of Daniel and in the book of Revelation that talks about a distorted Christianity that would be presented to the world, a false picture which Paul referred to as a falling away and that another power would present itself as a Christian power and the reformers referred to that as the antichrist whom they identified with the papal system.
Now, none of that history is in the Quran and none of that timeline or prophecy is in the Quran. So, basically, you're dealing with with people. Jesus is mentioned in the Quran. Uh his mother is very prominent in the Quran. In fact, his mother is elevated to the position of the highest woman in heaven in the Quran. So, we have some parallels and some issues. But Jesus is only recognized as a prophet and there's only one God and that is according to the Quran Allah. And it is actually an insult to have Jesus elevated to the position of deity or even for him to to sacrifice his life for sins which is an insult to to Allah because he needs such no such minations in order to save uh humanity. He can just do it by decree. So there are very distinct differences and Sabaz from what I have studied on this issue is that the Quran is very similar in its theology or the attributes of Allah are very similar in in their theology to what is presented by the Roman Catholic system.
And therefore it is a reflection of Roman Roman Catholicism.
So in that sense there is a link between this so-called Christianity and the Quran.
But is the God of Catholicism the same God as that of the Bible? And here we have a link because the people out there want to have the deities the same that Allah really is just another name for the same God that we have in Christianity. No, he has the same attributes as the Catholic [clears throat] portrayal of God.
>> But he doesn't have the attributes that are portrayed in the Bible. And uh if we can we if we can look at some of the similarities perhaps that would make it clearer and you must please give your comments regarding this.
Number one, the Quran denies the atonement.
Catholicism denies the atonement.
Catholicism teaches that Christ never died for you. He he brought the perfect sacrifice by obedience but not for you.
You have to pay your own sins in in Catholicism because you have to go to a place called purgatory where you pay for your own sins. Therefore, Christ in Catholicism is not the sinbearer.
He's not the one who takes the penalty of sin. the wages of sin is death upon himself. No, he was just obedient unto death, but he never took the penalty of sin upon himself in Catholicism.
And therefore, Islam, when it teaches that there is no atonement, that that is a sherad. It's the exact same doctrine as Catholicism.
That's a core doctrine.
When it comes to uh issues like uh marology, the Quran elevates Mary above all the other women in the Quran, even putting her above Fatima.
And then you have all of these connections. You have a place called Fatima in Catholicism where Mary is the pivotal point. And I've been to the Middle East where there are shrines where is Islamic pilgrims come to communicate their wishes to Mary.
So this is very similar to what we have in Catholicism.
So there's no atonement. And then the other thing is that Jesus is just a mere prophet in the Quran as as Muhammad was a prophet in the Quran.
And in Catholicism, Jesus is basically a created being >> because Catholic teaching says that he was generated by the father. So that makes him a created being. So that would put him on the same level as everybody else and he can be a prophet but he cannot be what the Bible claims that he is. So as far as I am concerned the God of Islam is the same or let's put it this way is the God with the same attributes as that of Catholicism.
But that's not the God of the Bible.
Do you see it like that as well?
>> Absolutely. I completely agree with you and and uh it's the the similarities between Islam and and Catholicism. Uh the I'm not talking about what they show on a weekly basis in Catholic churches.
We're talking about the the the underlying foundational connections between Catholicism and Islam is undeniable. It's it's there. You can't you can't separate the two. Um the God of the God of Islam um literally I mean in in the Quran he denies that he has a son.
>> Yes. And he even asks Jesus. He says Jesus and it it's interesting um uh that every time Jesus is mentioned in the Quran the title follows his his name Jesus the son of Mary.
The son of Mary is com is is all the time emphasized because the very purpose of Islam I believe was to not just to be a barrier against the progress of Christianity in the eastern countries but it was also to um um uh to take away Jesus's sunship to the father in heaven.
And and so that's why in the Bible Jesus is mentioned as the son of God in the New Testament and also in the in the Old Testament at least in one verse. And but in the Quran he's always the son of Mary.
>> Yes. And and and you're right, Mary is elevated even just uh uh just last month in Tehran in Iran. Uh one of the metro stations, a brand new metro station that was just opened across the street from the largest Catholic church in Tehran.
There's a metro station dedicated to Mary. Her image is in the metro station, a beautiful big image. And it's one of the most beautiful metro stations that you probably have ever visited. And not far from the Milad Tower in Tehran, there's a there is a there's a very big statue of Mary that has been dedicated.
Now, here is a Islamic nation that has no problem with with erecting uh images to Mary or or even dedicating metro stations and other things to Mary, but never Jesus. Uh and Mary Mary is just looked upon with with um not just a regular respect. And um so so in in Islam Marism is very much alive and um this is why I believe that Islam is being used as a a decoy as well. Let me just say this really quickly. I believe that Catholicism is using current events with Islam as a decoy to get people's attention off of what the Catholic Church is doing and looking over on the other side while the Catholic Church is is planting and building and creating its empire and and bringing the world to that final takeover that they they're planning to have. And and they've been they're well nice successful anyways. already there.
>> And um so yeah, it's it's so interesting. I I appreciate the things you said because I totally 100% agree with you.
>> All right. There's some core issues that are very important that people should understand as well.
And one of the the very basic issues which require a plan of salvation in the first place is that the wages of sin is death.
The day that you eat of it, says the scripture to Adam and Eve, is the day that you die.
In other words, death will come in as a consequence. Now the doctrine of the immortality of the soul again is a Roman Catholic doctrine that has been transferred even to the other Christian denominations and most Christian denominations. The great majority of them believe in the immortality of the soul. Thus negating that very first statement in the Bible that uh you are mortal because the Bible says God alone is immortal immortal and um life is conditional to obedience.
Now if you have immortality then what happens to those that disobey God? they go to hell where they suffer eternal torment. And this has been a central doctrine in in Catholicism.
And uh if you are saved, you first go to purgatory to be purged because you have to bear your responsibility for your own sin. And if you go to heaven, what is that heaven going to be like? Well, normally there is a utopic description whereas the Bible gives a a totally different picture. It's a place where you will be in the presence of God. Yes.
But not in some form of utopia where you are pampered and receive a lot of ladies to take care of your needs and all of these issues. So the doctrine of this utopia or eternal damnation in hell is a Roman Catholic doctrine and Islam has the same doctrine.
But the Islamic doctrine on hell is so descriptive in the Quran.
Whereas in the Bible, you have to you have to look at types and shadows and and cross references to get the picture of what it is what it is about. This hell is the grave and the other hell is the that fire of cleansing that destroys the wicked so that there are no more.
Whereas in Islam, you are in this place of burning inferno where your skin is burnt off and you receive a new one every day so that you can feel the suffering and the pain all over and over again. So it reminds us almost of Dante's Inferno.
>> Yeah. Right, Martin? I just wanted to ask you now you mentioned this that sounds all of this actually sounds a lot like mythology like Egyptian mythology and all these other uh pagan religions >> and and uh ancient uh Greek philosophy and all of these issues. So that is a totally uh synonymous view as we have it in Catholicism and that is not biblical because God is not a a a monster that will torture you for all eternity on the basis of one short life that you've had here on earth. And heaven is a place of activity. The Bible tells it that you will you will plant and you will you will take care of a farm gardening planting fruits. You will build houses. You will you will uh communicate with God and be in the city and it's a life of activity.
Whereas in the Quran, you receive a couch and you lie down and you are served by individuals and it's a totally different picture.
But the very basic thing that you mentioned Chabaz is Allah doesn't have a son.
So if he doesn't have a son, can he be the same God as the God of the Bible?
That's the that is the million-dollar question. Really, this question wasn't worth a million dollars until some Christian theologians decided to give it meaning because they they started to teach that Allah is the same God as the God that we worship as Christians. And you know in there's a surah in the Bible um the surah and I was mentioning that when Jes when the when Allah asks Jesus and says Jesus son of Mary did you did you teach the Christians that that you are equal to Allah and that you're my son and Jesus says Allah most beneficient this is a lie that the heavens tremble at so immediately that verse all by itself self sets the Bible completely on some other place compared to the Quran. Um the the Jesus of the of the Quran cannot be the Jesus of the Bible because the Jesus of the Bible never denied his sunship to the father.
But in the Quran, he denies it. And the the god of the Quran is not the ancient of days mentioned in Daniel chapter 7 because the god of the god of the Quran says he has no son but the ancient of days in the in the Bible at Jesus's baptism his voice was heard clearly by everyone that this is my son uh in whom I'm uh in whom I'm well pleased and then later on on mount of transfiguration before that Uh later on Jesus also is mentioned again by the father. This is my son.
Listen to him. Obey him. Um so uh every Christian has to make this decision.
This confusion that has come in in the Christian camp about Islam has to be clarified. Muslims have no problem by saying that we and Christians are not the same. But we Christians go out of our way to always claim that we are the same. We have so much in common.
>> They have a health message. We have a health message. Their their their God is the same God that we worship. And and their father was Abraham. Our father was is Abraham. And and it's just it's it's it's all like a confusion, a bad of noise. And I think it's time. And it's been I mean I've been working at I've been doing this ministry for 26 years.
and and ever since 2000, I've been trying to teach this to my brothers and my sisters that that hey, you know, um I haven't made it a mission because my mission is to save bring people to to know Jesus Christ.
>> Yes. And but but but on the sidelines, as much as I can, I try to make the issues clear because I'm I'm really tired of seeing uh people in our denomination that are just selling out, completely selling out. And sometimes they're not selling out because they want to sell out, but they are compromising because they either been deceived or they want to deceive people.
That's the bottom line. You were you were mentioning that we have a health message and they have a health message.
Uh if I can just comment on that a little bit.
We have a health message. Yes. which is based on what you read in in Leviticus and in the history of of the Israelites where God changed their diets and uh in the in the walk through uh the wilderness for 40 years. He he even uh tried to get them to to eat a more uh healthy diet excluding meat, for example.
And they rebelled against it. And there were very clear guidelines as to what kind of flesh foods you were allowed to eat. And those were the clean and unclean foods. And the list in Lefeticus is is quite exhaustive.
And uh as a scientist I was very interested into in this. And basically if you can cut it down to the basics, the creatures that are unclean are those that will accumulate more toxins either because of their lifestyle or because of accumulation due to carnivory etc. All carnivorous animals are declared as unclean for example and uh there are other issues like coopraagy animals that eat their own excretor and things like that and the list is very precise. When you go to the Quran that list is very uh restricted.
Uh the pig is declared as an unclean animal in the Quran. But the animals that are unclean in the Bible like uh the animals in the ocean for example, I'm not talking about fish with fins and scales. Now I'm talking about the other creepy crawies like uh you know the mollusks and all of those creatures. Uh they're perfectly fine in in Islam. And these health laws that were uh mentioned in the Bible according to Quran to the Quran were uh decreed for the Jews because of their unbelief and disobedience not because they were unclean in within themselves. So in in the Quran uh the Muslim is quite happy to eat any of the marine creatures and the camel that is declared an unclean animal in the Bible is is something that is definitely not unclean in the Quran. So there are a lot of contradictions there. So the health message basically revolves around pork and it revol revolves around things like alcohol for example.
>> But uh one of the the things that are unhealthy in in the world is for example smoking.
There's no there's no restriction when it comes to that. So as far as I'm concerned, there is basically no health message in Islam other than pork.
Well, you uh they in fact in in the Sharia law and in Islamic tradition, a provision has been made that in times of dirt when there is no other food, even the flesh of a pig is permissible to be consumed in Islam. So in times of dirt, you can eat the flesh of a pig in Islam.
Uh so there there is absolutely no no correlation no connection between the seventh day adventist health message or the biblical health message and the and the Quranic as you mentioned.
>> Yes.
>> They can eat the they can eat the flesh of camels. They can eat any sea creatures. Um they don't eat lobsters but they do eat shrimps. They do eat shellfish.
Most most shellfish and stuff. Um they they can eat um ostrich meat, eggs, um uh any type of birds and stuff. Uh they can eat because there's no and and you mentioned smoking.
Quran doesn't have a Bible verse that says your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit that if you destroy your bo this body, God will destroy you in in hell.
They don't have that. They don't have any restrictions except poor eating the flesh of a of of pigs or alcohol. And and really the reasoning behind this prohibition on alcohol and and the the the the meat of a pig is goes back to to the to the Islamic desire to reveal or at least show themselves that they are of an Abrahamic faith.
And because if that wasn't even in if that was not in the in the Bible today, Muslims would be eating pigs and and drinking alcohol and all that and that would have been allowed. Muslim clerics regularly smoke cigarettes because there's no prohibition. They have no belief that their body is a temple of the Holy Spirit. Even though the the even though uh Quran mentions Holy Spirit but their understanding of the Holy Spirit is zero.
Another correlation they make is that Jesus the the Quran says that Jesus is which is come is the same word as the rua in Hebrew which means spirit or breath or Allah is the name of the god of Islam. So in the Quran Jesus is referred to as which it means that Jesus is the Holy Ghost and um and you know that there's a teaching that been permeating in the 7th day Adventist church for some years now which is a false teaching that teaches that Jesus is the spirit of God.
>> Yeah.
>> Yes. Very good. And but we believe as Protestant Christians in in in the in the Godhead, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Three distinct separate personalities that can exist apart from each other, but they are one in every aspect. It's not three in one, there are three as one. But this teaching in the Quran that Jesus is ruah that he is the Holy Spirit I it it goes back to that Catholic teaching because >> it's a Catholic doctrine >> earlier >> it's a Catholic doctrine >> say that >> it's a Catholic doctrine because because in Catholicism uh they teach that Jesus is generated by the father and that the father and Jesus once having been generated together sued blew breathed the Holy Spirit into existence. So basically the Holy Spirit is the spirit of Christ and the spirit of the father and they are basically one entity in Catholicism with three aspects.
But the true trinity in the Bible is one in purpose but three separate entities, individuals, powers.
If I may say something here that's really going to stir something.
The pioneers of this church, a lot of them when you get these arguments, they say that they were anti-terrinitarian or non-terrinitarian.
I believe if you do really do your study, you'll see that they non-atholic trinitarian.
>> Absolutely. And they weren't unitarians either.
>> Yes. They did not go against the biblical explanation of a triune God.
>> No. But and so these people that run to that side and say, "Oh, but we the the Adventists have the same view as the Catholics on Trinity is have no clue what the Catholics teach on Trinity."
>> The irony is Martin that they actually teach Catholic doctrine by making Christ the generated being and the Holy Spirit the spirit basically of Jesus Christ.
And therefore they >> and the interesting is the interesting thing is Walter and Martin that Islam does the same thing. Ex >> that's amazing just shows you Catholic teaching the same thing.
>> It's amazing how this just fits in together. So, if we can just backtrack a little bit and say, "All right, what what does the Bible say about end time events and who the enemy of God really is in in the portrayal of the book of Revelation and the little horn of Daniel chapter 7. Uh the reformers were absolutely crystal clear that the little horn represents the papacy.
The reformers were absolutely crystal clear that the beast of Revelation 13, the beast out of the sea, that that represented Catholicism because it had the same aspects as the beast or as the little horn. It persecuted the saints.
that change times and laws etc etc. Now is Islam in the book of revelation has a place yes when it came to uh you know the battle between Christianity and and Islam but the role players right until the end remains the little horned power or the papal system that ruled for 1,260 days. Now shabaz if that is the antichrist system that changed the times and that changed the laws of God and has a mark which is their mark of authority which they claim Sunday worship is their mark of authority.
If that is true and that is the issue in the Bible, then Islam is in the same predicament as the rest of the world, even the Christian world.
>> Because when they acknowledge the papal system and in their in their fraternity documents, they are acknowledging them them each other as brothers and in in the in in the religion. Isn't it in the Abrahamic Accord?
>> In the Abrahamic Accord as well. Then if they embrace Catholicism as this leading power and eventually even may introduce the mark of authority of of Rome, which is Sunday keeping, then they run the same risk as the rest of the Christian world of being deceived by a power that the Bible says will have control over the minds of men in the end of time. So mustn't they be warned in the same way in which the warning of the three angels messages has to go to the world it doesn't it applied to them as well I would love to warn them that they are in dangerous ground by going into a alliance in the Abrahamic accord with Catholicism and Judaism both of whom deny deny the atonement. So that accord is three religious systems that deny the divinity of Christ and the atonement.
and uh and the fact that in this in this uh accord which they called Chrislam uh the one world uh religion complex that in Dubai UAE um these there is no there's no seat for Protestants at least for true Protestants anyways um it's it's head by the Catholics and in fact All the leaders usually go to the Vatican. They the Vatican never goes to them. And and uh they have it in UAE because UAE is just it's just it was created for the globalists that that that place and and they they in this in this accord their entire premise is to destroy who Jesus the son of God is. That's the whole premise of this accord is to to take the world under the guise of this supposedly peaceful religious union that they have created. But it really everyone who has signed that accord has signed their soul over to the devil. That's that's the bottom line. I mean it's time for them to repent >> because right now that's what they've done.
>> There's no time for Christ in that equation. uh only by deception.
>> I remember in your um lecture Islamic connection, you show how all of this goes actually back to Luciferian worship, both Cathol Catholicism and Islam, because behind the scenes, you got the exoteric and the esoteric doctrine that's running there. So most Muslims don't know what's the actual teaching of what's behind the scenes and where they what's the real religion.
>> Yes. You see false false religion in in Christianity and I'm talking about papal religion is based on the three lies of the serpent in the garden of Eden. You will surely not die. In other words, the doctrine of immortality.
You shall be as gods and you will be able to distinguish between good and evil. You don't need God's law for that. And Rome does exactly the same thing. They claim immortality.
They say that Jesus became man so that man can become like God. That's in their catechism.
and their basis for moral teaching is natural law and not the law of God.
Therefore, they can change the law of God as it pleases them and they have done so. Now, when the Bible says that this power will set the mindset for humanity, then I ask myself the question, have they not done it >> in uh Judaism? Have they not done it in Islam? Have they not done it in the Christian world? Because the Christian world today in its doctrine is basically Catholic. It has totally negated the reformation. So the whole world is following the mindset of the Roman Catholic system. And the Roman Catholic system has uh overshadowed the world to such an extent that the Muslim is as a captive of their religion as is the western world.
>> Amen. Yeah. Absolutely. They they you know you mentioned the law the ten commandments and and when you read the Quran cover to cover when you read the hadith whether it's the Shia hadith or the Sunni hadith you you will never find the entirety of the ten commandments anywhere recorded in their any of their doctrines and so the ten commandments is non-existence in in Islam. Now, there are particular sayings in the Quran that that people have said because I've heard Christians, even Adventist theologians tell me, "Oh, the Ten Commandments is in the Quran." And um but but it's not. You do not have the entirety of the Ten Commandments. Now, you have somewhere it says Allah says you're not to worship any other gods. They say, "See, that's the Ten Commandments, but it's not in its entirety." Or for instance, the Sabbath commandment is not even mentioned in the in the in the Quran. In the Quran, it says that talks about the Jews that that the Jews said that there was there's a Sabbath. Talks about the Sabbath like that. But then the Quran brings it right back around to JM or or or the day of um the day that Muslims are supposed to gather, which is Friday.
And which which so in the Quran Allah says I've given you J as your day and it's not a full day. It's not like a Sabbath to them. Muslims go to the mosque. They leave the mosque. They go back to their secular jobs. They do whatever they want to do but but there's no placement. So in in Catholicism, Sunday takes the place of the Sabbath.
In Islam, Friday takes the place of the Sabbath. and Sabbath is negated in all these religions. We're talking about 1.7 billion Muslims and and we we're talking about another billion Catholics. They are all negating the commandments of God. All of it is being negated. Christ is being negated.
His sunship to the father is being negated. His divine purpose, he as the creator is being negated. I I want to just tell you something. I had a Muslim one time come to me. I was doing an evangelistic seminar in San Jose, California for Iranians and and an Iranian Muslim.
Middle of the seminar, uh I think it was day 16, I see this new guy and I went at the end of the meetings, I went over to shake his hand and he got up and he said, "I have not come here to listen to you. My sole mission is to bring you back to Islam."
And I said to him, I said uh I said, "What's the purp what is your problem that I became a Christian?" And he said, "Christianity is a false religion.
Christianity is is a corrupt religion and and Islam is the only true religion.
Allah is the only true God." And I told him, I said, "So you have a problem with Jesus, don't you?" He says, he says, "Yes, Christians teach that he is God."
And I said to him, I can prove that to you from scriptures, but I know you don't accept scriptures. And he said, "No, I don't accept the Bible at all except the writings of Moses.
Only the Torah, the first five books of Moses." And and many many Muslims regard the writings of Moses as intact. They're not corrupted, but the rest is corrupted. Yes.
>> I told him, "If I show you from the writings of Moses that Jesus is God, will you follow him?" He said, "It's impossible. It's not there." I said, "Well, let me show you." So he and I went to somewhere private and I opened my Bible, took him to Genesis 1:1. In the beginning, Elohim created the heavens and the earth. And I explained to him what Elohim means in the Hebrew plural original Hebrew. And and then he said he said, "Okay, what what does that mean?" And I took him down to Genesis 1 26 27 when he says, "And God said, let us make man in our image. Let us make him in our likeness, in the likeness of God." He God created them. He created them male and female. And then I said, "Who is this us speaking here?" He said, "I don't know." I said, "This has nothing to do because in the in the Quran, Allah refers to himself as us, we he's not talking about polar multiplicity here. He's talking about in the Arabic religion in the in the in the formal format of the Arabic religion if I was to speak to you Walter or Martin I wouldn't use the word you singular I would use the it's like in French the word vu which is plural because I'm trying to respect you they do that to monarchy as well they do it in Persian in Arabic in French in many languages it's built that way that's why Quran was written that way and I told them Bible was not written that way. And he said, "So who's talking here?" I asked him, "Do you think it's the angels?" And he thought about it. He says, "Well, I don't think angels can create." I said, "No, he's talking to someone." So I told him, "Well, let's go to Genesis chapter 11." Took him to where God said, God came and he confounded the languages. He divided the languages. Let us con let us confound their languages. And then he said, and then and then I took him to John chap. Now I could take him to New Testament because I built his confidence from the writings of Moses. Took him to New Testament. John chapter 1 verse one and which says in the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God and everything was made by the word and the word in verse 14 became flesh. The minute he heard all of this, I tell you, he tiptoed backwards. He hit the wall behind him and then he said, "Maybe I need to become a Christian."
And he ran to his car. He turned that engine on. He revved that engine. He took off. He never came back. Never saw him again. But I pray that he has become a Christian since. So the point is this is that Muslims argue that the Bible is corrupt. And my my response to them has always been if you believe that the Bible is corrupted and you believe that its origins were good that that you say Allah gave the Bible but the Bible was corrupted.
So Allah was forced to bring the Quran.
What guarantee do I have that that same Allah that failed the first time from protecting his own word will not fail again.
And and and no Muslim can ever answer that question.
>> There's no answer to that question.
>> What was that?
>> I said that's a very good point. If you if you had to go deeper into the Torah and show him the plan of salvation in the sanctuary system, that is all about Jesus. And when when Moses speaks about a prophet like him that would come, they relate to Muhammad.
But uh the prophecies related to Jesus Christ because they even give the timelines exactly in in the Bible. So yes, that that is a story. Now I have a very similar story. Well, not a similar story but a story. Uh, I had a visit from an Islamic lady from Saudi Arabia and she came to my house and uh, she wanted to consult with me and she was a strict Muslim, but she had a problem with the position of women within the Quran and the position of women in the future life hereafter.
And [clears throat] she she was basically saddened by this doctrine that uh the woman is basically there to serve basically the needs of the man whereas in the Bible of course Adam and Eve were co-equal. She was placed by his side not under his feet. So she came to me and she asked me I must in in one sentence tell her what the difference is between uh Christianity and Islam.
And I I said to her the difference is for God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever should believe in him should not perish but have eternal life. And she said, "No, she can't accept that because she doesn't accept the deity of Christ and or the sunship of Christ." And so I did the same thing you did. I gave her a Bible study.
And when I'd done the Bible study, she said, "Now she's totally shocked because then Jesus is is who he claims to be.
Then he is God because it's in the Bible." And I I did very similar thing to what you did. And then she said to me, what are the attributes of these god this god and what is the position of the woman? Now if you read the Quran, it's very very clear that a woman doesn't reach the same stature as a man. For example, if you are in a court case, there have to be two women for each one man. also in the in inheritance and all of these issues. The woman takes a very secondary role and I explained to her the co-equality but that there is a hierarchy but that it's based on love and respect for each other on the same level.
And she burst into tears and she says, "But I want that God.
I want that god.
And I said to her, but you can have that god. And she says, but if I go back to my country and I show that I have this god, they will kill me.
And I said, well, I understand your predicament, but uh I don't know what to tell you on that issue other than that you can keep it in your heart.
And so she actually knelt down with me and we prayed and then she left. And I don't know what happened to her thereafter.
But there is this terrible longing for a God that loves you, that wants to take care of you, that's prepared to even die for you, rather than this uh separated God who looks at you and sees whether you come up to scratch or not and on the basis of an arbitrary choice takes you to heaven or condemns you to eternal hell.
Amen. Praise. Praise be to God. I am confident that she's following her savior today. And the seed was planted.
This is this is beautiful. Beautiful testimony. My heart just my heart is longing to see every Muslim become a believer of Christ and follow him. I have some I I wanted to give you some good news. um in the country that I represent. I'm uh originally I'm from Iran and um uh and in Iran according to Gam which is a institution in the Netherlands and they do statistics and and they collect data. They did a research on Iran. And it took him like I think three or four years to gather all the data and they concluded this is about 3 years ago maybe four years ago this came out um that that Iran has the fastest growing Christian church in the world. The church in Iran is growing at a rate of literally almost 20% annually.
and um and and and this the the statistics said that 60% of Iranians have already left Islam in their hearts.
They are not Muslims anymore. and uh and and um many have become uh either uh Zeroastrians, many have become atheists and many many more have become Christians and 40% of Iranians still consider themselves as Muslim as of five year four five years ago. Out of that 40% only 2% practice Islam on a daily basis. The other 38% do not go to the mosque. In fact, in Iran, mosques are closing at a rate that is unbelievable. And by one uh news commentator said that in one of these popular news media channels, he said Iran is the first postIslamic nation the world has ever seen. Um uh Muslims are looking not just in Iran, in in Egypt, in Saudi Arabia, many countries in the region, people are turning to Christ.
Angels are visiting people. People are having visions and dreams and they're seeing the truth and they are they are converting and um and and our job our ministry is to reach them and to tell them and to help them to understand so that in this transition they can they know where they're supposed to go where is where is their support system.
Obviously Jesus is their support first and foremost. But where the church exists, they can turn to that church.
And and right now in Iran, we have many many many underground churches uh Adventist underground churches and that are are every Sabbath they're worshiping and they're honoring Christ and they are they are uh they are growing. Uh this ministry is growing leaps and bounds and God is working in a mighty way. We're going to see a lot of Muslims come to Christ very soon. But I wanted to point to one thing, Walter and Martin. And that was that's in in in Genesis because everybody talks about uh there's a well-known author in the Seventh Day Adventist Church. He wrote a book called Islam, God's forgotten blessing.
And his premise is is that Islam is a blessing that has been forgotten. and he's he's using the the the couple of times that the Muslim uh forces uh basically attacked Europe and because of that the the the the u reformation movement was saved.
remember the the the the soldiers the uh uh that the Catholic military the Catholic soldiers that were attacking the reformers then there would be a loud cry that the Muslims are attacking our southern border so they would retreat and go back and to defend the borders and couple of three times even the khalif admitted hey I'm I'm god is using me to save the the protestants the thing is is they use these these these arguments to prove that Islam is a blessing. But wait a minute, I thought that Cyrus and the Persians who did not worship the true God of Israel, they also saved Israel from their Babylonian captivity. But God never said that the that the Jews are supposed to become Zaroastrians now or or or worship Mitra.
But you know God God is sovereign. He can use even his enemies for his purpose.
>> He do. He does it.
>> And he does it all the time.
>> All the >> I say he does that all the time.
>> All the time. And and the verse that I want to mention is in is in Genesis 16:12 where the angel of the Lord meets with Hagar and and tells Hagar in in chapter 16 verse 7-14. He's talking to Hagar and he says to Hagar, "Where are you going? I'm fleeing from my mistress Sarai. And and the angel says, "You have to go back to your mistress. You, you know, you have a son. His name shall be called Ishmael." So, okay, unique.
Because now God is actually giving the name of the son of this Egyptian bond woman. Well, not a bond woman, but she was a Sara was her mistress. Uh uh. and and um she and then the angel says he will be a wild man. His hand will be against all men and all men's hand will be against him. The word wild men there is translated from the original Hebrew which says wild donkey. He will be a wild dunkey kicking. You can't tame him.
He's he's just going to be a wild kicking donkey. His hand will be against everyone and everyone will be against him. Basically, basically there there's a prophecy of Islam right there through Ishmael and his connection with the with the Arabs and and in fact he didn't even even even move.
He he went to the wilderness of Pon and it was his children that mixed with the Arabs and and his wife was an Egyptian wife that his mother picked for him from Egypt because his mother is Egyptian.
Ishmael is three4 he's only he's only uh children's his children are three4 Egyptian.
He's only half Seemetic from his father and half Egyptian, North African. I'm not arguing that that that that is Muslims are not Ishelites, but what but what I'm saying not all Arabs areites and not all Ish isites are Arabs and and so so the fact that the Bible predicts there's a prophecy about Islam that will be a wild religion, it will be always fighting everyone and everybody will be fighting it. We're seeing that on the news every day. It's happening all the time.
>> Well, there's a greater connection also via Esau because Esau also uh intermarried with Ishalites.
So there is that connection and uh it's interesting that Petra for example was a very big religious center and Mecca is a much later construct and happens to be on a on a pagan lay line uh of religious systems. So there's a whole issue there as well.
God wants to save all nations because the gospel is for every tribe and people and nation and there will be seed of Abraham even through the line of Ishmael that will accept Jesus. And there are web pages now that tell about all of these miraculous dreams that people are having that Jesus is uh the true Messiah that he will come again.
But there's another aspect about the Bible and Quran that's interesting and that is the question of free choice.
Uh in the Bible you have angelic beings that are described and you have humanity that's being described. So there are two orders of being. In the Quran there are three orders of being. You have you have the angels then you have the geni and then you have humanity.
And uh when in the Quran Allah told uh the geni that they must bow down to humanity and be subjugated to them. They refused and uh so they have a freedom of choice.
But according to the Quran, the angelic host doesn't have a freedom of choice and humanity has a freedom of choice.
And they have this intermingling, this confusion of the geni with Idlib, the leader of the geni. And in the Quran, these entities actually were instrumental in building the temple in Jerusalem.
So that wasn't something that Solomon did but that Geni actually helped to construct. So you have you have basically demonic entities uh involved in the building of the temple. So there's a total confusion as to that part of their religion as well.
And uh yes is it like that or is it not?
Are there good genie like you see in the movies when the genie comes out of the bottle and bad genie that will you know try to deceive you but basically according to the Quran a Muslim cannot be receive deceived only the Christian can be deceived. Now I I had this question when I did Islamic connection whether Rome that was supposed to rule from 538 to 1798 and Islam arrives after 538 whether in the secret echelons of the underground currents of secret societies whether there wasn't some concord between them and Islam might have been used to get rid of true Sabbathkeeping Christianity in the Eastern churches >> so that Rome would be able to rule because the Islamic religion is the same as Catholicism as we have discussed.
>> They even use beads for praying. They've got the same um emblems and stuff on the churches. They have the the moon and the star in it which is the Roman Catholic monstrance with the host in it. It's basically uh a relic of Baal worship. So you have all of these issues. So is that not plausible?
And why why do the secret societies like uh the shriners for example where affairs with the Islamic symbols on it plus the Islamic sword that was uh used to destroy Christianity and by chopping off the head which is a feature of ISIS for example.
And uh why do these secret societies and these freemasons honor Islam and the fairs which was a symbol of the blood shed by the Christians in uh the river fears. [snorts] So we know that the that the higher me masonic echelons are luciferian.
So obviously they must have the same doctrine as the luciferians. And they put the Quran and the Bible on the same level because they teach the same doctrine as interpreted by Catholicism and Isan and not really the Bible. I've got two questions. The one is the mark of the beast.
How will Islam accept the what are they going to do? How is that going to be work working to try and implement this mark of the beast? And then you've been talking about it, Shabbaz. Um there I've heard um preachers in our denomination say that the reason why we can have similarities by Allah and God is because the root word for God is actually more pagan than the word Allah is for God. Is that true? Can we just get to know Can you just explain to on those two questions?
>> What's your take?
>> That is so sad. Now, um the English word, if they're talking about the English word god, obviously the English word god is is just a neutral word in the English language which has evolved and and uh it represents any deity in any religion obviously. So there's a you can argue that, but that's not a strong argument. That's not that's not theology. That's not that's not taking taking a word in pieces. Allah Allah predates Islam. The word the name Allah.
And the name Allah has a has an address, has a direction. You know, when you say Buddha, everybody knows what you're talking about. When you say Allah, everyone knows what you're talking about. Um Allah Muhammad the prophet of Islam his father's name was Abdullah which means in that's an Arabic word which means the servant of Allah and and uh obviously his father was either named Abdullah or he actually was a priest that served Allah pre-Islamic uh Allah in in in in Arabia. That means that Allah was already worshiped by Arabs before Islam even became a religion in that region.
>> That's right. Was a you can't have the you can't have the cart before the horse. Muhammad's father was born before Muhammad. At his birth, they named him Abdullah. And um and when Muhammad comes on the scene uh and I know now there are historians that even challenge whether or not he even existed and even Maka even existed.
But when he comes on the scene in in Mecca or Mecca or however you pronounce it in he comes and there's this there's this square building called Kab and and Arabs at that time worshiped 300 deities and the the number one deity they worshiped was Allah. It was a black stone that that they it was actually a meteor that had come down from from the sky and from space and this they found this meteor and it's a it's a it's very it's metallic and it's black and they they put it in Caba and they said this is the god that came down and and from moon and they worshiped it. Muhammad comes on the scene. He gets rid of 299 of those idols and he takes that last one and he says, "This is not Allah.
This is the eye of Allah." That's why in Caba, if you look in Caba, if you go look research it, that black stone is encased in a golden eye, shape of an eye, and it's in Caba. And every Muslim, faithful Muslim goes to to to the pilgrimage and they go around the Cabba seven times worshiping that stone. And and so so Allah predates Islam. Allah and some people even argue, well Elohim is a form of Allah. Absolutely not. This is this is this is nonsense. Everybody is so desperate to to make an ecumenical mess out of our divided world that that that we're willing to just negate every immoral differences just for the sake of unity.
>> But there [clears throat] can't be unity when there is truth is being compromised.
>> Amen.
>> And and this is this is the problem that we're having even now in our church.
Yes.
>> To to a great degree. And and and I'm not condemning the Seventh Day Adventist Church. I love the Seventh Day Adventist Church. All of us are serving God's church and and and we will continue to serve the church, but we are having problems and we got to call it call call it out. This is my take on it. I would love to hear what you gentlemen think.
>> I think exactly the same thing. And I've had u high officials within our ranks come to me and say that uh Islam the Muslim doesn't have to come out of his system because the only difference is a cultural system. He can stay in his mosque. He can stay in his worship system. Uh I used to be a Roman Catholic. I had to come out of the system. I cannot be part of Roman Catholicism which is the beast of revelation.
and has the dragon [clears throat] giving him his power and his seat in great authority. I cannot stay within that system. I have to come out and be separate. The same applies to Islam.
Now you mentioned the eye and the eye is so important. Now just jump to Catholicism. How important is the allseeing eye in Catholicism?
>> It's important right from the very beginning. You have it in many many cases. And then of course it's perfected in Jesuitism.
In every Jesuit conclave there is the allseeing eye. And why should that very same symbol be the same symbol that you find in masonry >> which is basically Luciferian worship and you find it in the occult world. uh you find it all over and all of these these things point to one basic form of worship which is Luciferian.
Now if if that the true deity that is served by these entities is Lucifer and I cannot see it any other way because they believe his doctrine and they follow the lies of the serpent from the garden of Eden and and immortalize them in their doctrines then they must be Luciferian at heart and that is a esoteric doctrine which the initiates would know about. And there is an exoteric doctrine that the uninitiated is kept in slavery to. And I believe exactly the same that happened in Catholicism is happening in Islam.
And these poor people have to go through rituals. They have to have their their prayer times in specific places. If you follow the ritual, then you're fine.
Catholicism does the same thing. If you pray your rosary, if you go to the mass, if you do your pilgrimages, then you get points [snorts] and you get absolutions from purgatory. The same with Islam. You have to do a pilgrimage.
It's a it's a religion of works. It is not the religion of the Bible. And therefore these brethren of ours that ask for the blessing of Isl Allah for example are inadvertently in my opinion practicing what the occult world is practicing and what Catholicism is practicing. It's a very dangerous precedent. There are only two systems and the one is based on the Messiah, faith in the Messiah and obedience to his precepts.
Everybody who deviates from obedience to his precepts and acceptance of his atoning sacrifice is in a false religion. No matter what we're going to call it.
>> Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. You know there there is there is this um you talked about the geni in in uh in the Quran that you read about and and when I was a kid I remember we were always scared you know that that the genia will come and get you and all that and and and you never thought about fallen angels or angels.
Angels were kind of like dismissed.
Genie eyes were the ones that were the the the boogeyman and that you were had to be scared of and stuff. And the devil had has worked really hard to get the attention off of himself, hide himself and create this scary situation to control people through fear and and all these false religions control people through fear. And that's what Catholicism does as well. Controls people through fear. if you don't obey, you're going to burn in hell. You're going to be in purgatory for so long and then you're going to be this and you're going to be that and and um and I remember when I first became a 7th day adventist, just shortly before I became a Seventh Day Adventist, I remember I was praying to Allah and I was literally beating my body trying to appease Allah to get him to listen to me. And that's when he didn't listen to me. And that's when I fell to the floor and I was crying and and I c I didn't say Allah anymore. I used the word God. This is proof. This is a case in point. Um in my case, in my experience when I met Jesus, I was literally calling Allah and nothing happened. And I was crying, I was weeping, I was beating my body. I wanted forgiveness. I needed to be forgiven. I was 18 years old. And during during that that that traumatic experience I was having at the end of it I just gave up. I fell to the floor. I was weeping weeping like a baby. And I cried the last words that I said.
These were the final words I was saying and I was giving up. And I said I didn't say Allah anymore. I used the word God which is neutral. The word God is neutral obviously. And I said, "God, please help me." The minute I said that, Jesus showed up in my room. He actually appeared in the middle of my room. Now, I'm praying for 40 minutes. Allah, Allah, Allah, beating myself, crying and asking for help. Nothing happened. But he couldn't come. Had Jesus showed up when I said Allah, he would have one, denied himself, and two, I would have remained a Muslim. I would have never become a Christian. and and but Jesus showed up as Jesus not as Allah and changed my life. My life changed and I became a believer and and so did all my family members eventually one by one and they met Jesus in their dreams as well.
So so so yes this question of Allah is clear.
Even a Muslim imam agreed with me although he took it as a point for himself. uh but but you know fi the final thing that really stands out in in this discussion also just equally is esquetology the esqueological views of Islam regarding what happens at the end of time when everything ends and judgment has come and all that and and and there are so many people in the church that that cry and say oh uh we are all the Same with the Muslims. They have esquetology. We have one. Jesus comes. They're, you know, they say Jesus will come and all that. And and the question is, is it really the same? Is our esquetology and their esquetology the same? Are they teaching the same? In fact, do they even have a theology that we can actually rest on and and and look at it as a solid um um solid way of theologically understanding line upon line here a little there a little as as Walter mentioned earlier in the program Quran is is you don't find many things in the Quran. In fact, the Quran was written in a very confusing way. There is no line of reasoning and and there's there is is is is disorganized.
There is no there is no theology in it.
There's no line upon line here line upon line here a little there a little that you can compare verses and and come out with a theology. There's no two or three witnesses if they agree. So it's established a way that we as as Christians study the Bible. So these are the things that we need to talk about. I would like to hear what what you have to say about the esquetology of of of the Quran and and the Bible and the second supposedly the second coming of of when Mai will come back the at the end and and Jesus supposed to be coming right behind him >> and and and the end will come. Okay, let's look at these two aspects about uh the esquetology and and the Bible and the Quran as a book.
Let's first look as the the Quran and the Bible as a book.
Catholicism does not accept the Bible as nominative only in the sense as it is in harmony with their tradition.
So tradition is above the Bible in uh Catholicism.
In true religion, the Bible is above your tradition. You have to come into harmony with your tradition. In the Quran, as you say, there are many confusing things. And I I believe the Quran also confuses Mary with uh the sister of Moses rather than the mother of Jesus at a much later stage. So there are many confusing things there in in the Quran. The Quran's value in Islamic life is basically in song. There is a divine reading of the Quran which is done and the method of reading it rather than the content of what you are reading is important. The way you pronounce it, the way you sing it etc. Now in Catholicism you have the same. In Catholicism you have what you call lectio deina divine reading where the psalms and the verses in the bible are sung in a particular chanting fashion. That's a correlation with Islam. It's exactly the same thing. And uh there would be a a singer and a reciprocity response. And you have the same also in Islam. So it is totally the same as Catholicism. And Catholicism is a pagan religion. It's not Christianity.
So that's the one point when it comes to esquetology.
Many in Islam long for the coming of Jesus because Jesus in the Quran denies anyone or will punish anyone that has deified him. So in in um Islam, the coming of Christ is a retributive action. He comes to punish those that worshiped him as deity.
Whereas in the Bible, he comes to uh gather those that worshiped him as deity. So it's the exact opposite.
So the esquetology is the destruction of Christianity and the survival of Islam.
Whereas in the Bible, it is all that come into harmony with God and keep his commandments and accept the atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ are embraced in the kingdom of God. It's a universal message of salvation and not the destruction of one in favor of the other.
>> Beautiful. Praise God. Absolutely correct. Absolutely right. And and this is the whole purpose of Islam to take away the the deity of Christ. You know, five times a day when the call to prayer is done at the minetses in all the mosques around the world, Sunni religion and in the Shia religion is done three times a day. Part of that part of that call to prayer is the denouncing of anyone that claims to be equal to Allah.
That Allah has no consort.
So five times a day they proclaimed from the minat the whole the whole purpose and existence of Islam was to deny the deity of Christ. That's the whole purpose of Islam is to that and also create a barrier against the the the the growth of of Protestant Christianity in the east and and it became a wall. You know another interesting thing about the esquetology of Islam is is the teaching that they believe that when Mai will come, Christ will come after him and then Christ's whole purpose is to to fulfill whatever Mai says. And and obviously one the most important thing is to to destroy those who deified him.
But but he also will kill 70,000 Jews only. 70,000 Jews. And he will proceed to kill all pigs on earth. Every four-legged animal creature we call pig will be killed. All hogs, pigs, boores, all of them. Jesus will kill all of them. His job is finished.
He will his job is finished. Jesus will get married, have children, and die after 40 years, but Mai will live forever. And and and and I asked I asked those in in our group in our denomination that teach that we have a similar esquetology as they do. Where do you see the similarity? How can you connect these dots that don't even exist? Now in in the esoteric world and in some denominations that call themselves Christian that are not Christian there are these two sons of God. The one is Jesus and the other one is Lucifer.
And they believe that Lucifer was the the elder one the true son of God and Jesus was the usurper and that Lucifer will take his throne back. Now there are even denominations that call themselves Christian that believe that and let's not go into into that detail but that is what the esoteric world believes and therefore they worship Lucifer as the ultimate winner. Now as you have just explained this Iman Madi who will come uh and Jesus will follow him.
Isn't that a depiction of the same thing where Lucifer, the true son of God according to them, is the one that lives forever and the other one is denigrated to humanity and will die and disappear off the stage of history. So all of these religions out there are a negation of Christ.
>> Yeah. Bringing him lower.
>> And the most deceptive one is Catholicism.
And that what's makes it the the son of pedition, the denier, the betrayer of Jesus Christ. You know this word uh son of pition is used only for Judas and for the man of sin.
They pretend to worship Jesus whereas they deflect the worship to Mary and other entities like the saints that are all deceased. They deny the divinity, the true self- sustaining divinity of Christ and make him a created being and present that to the Christian world as though they were Christians. They're not. They are the enemies of Christ.
They are luciferian in their worship. I had a a a man who grew up in in an imam family who told me that he once overheard a group of imams in his family worshiping a secret form of Allah which was basically occult behind the scenes.
And uh because he overheard it, he had to take part in that ritual eventually and become initiated.
So again, you have it seems to me from that story and uh it's a very credible source that you also have an esoteric and an exoteric portrayal of the religion for the insiders and the outsiders. Of course, masonry is very prominent in Islam as well. And you have all the Islamic lodges and behind the scenes they are actually one in worship but externally they are not. So this is very fascinating to me. There's only one true religion and as far as I can understand it corroborated not only through faith but through actual historic data and prophetic data.
And you will only find that in the Bible. You will find it in no other writing.
>> Amen. Amen. Amen. Praise God. I I am so blessed to spend this time with you gentlemen. and and uh just a wonderful wonder wonderful and and and I wanted to say that that um in our mission to reach people whether they are Catholic or Muslims or Protestants or Buddhists or Hindus or whatever they may be that that truth will prevail. Truth always prevails and and error has has no place cannot even stand in the presence of truth. Now people may hold on to error and think that error is is going to be victorious. People ask me how do you minister to a Muslim and I tell them read them for the Bible. The God has promised that if you if you cast your bread it will return to you. The word of God will not return to me. Jesus says void. So his word will not return to them void. And and and people are scared of sharing the Bible with Muslims. And I tell them, "No, just like you did, Walter, with that Arab woman from Saudi Arabia, you studied the Bible with her."
>> Yes.
>> What else can you do? The word of God is the only truth that we can rest our faith upon. And it is a living word of God and it has power. Every time I open the Bible, I hear noises. Not not psychologically, but spiritually I hear I hear the noises of beasts and I see nations and I see the future and I see the past and I see history. I see the truth of God. I see the cross of Jesus.
I see the agonizing of the son of God. I see his victory over sin, over death.
And I see that I can have life and have it more abundantly through Jesus Christ.
And when I share this word with anyone whether they are Muslim or not, it will not return to God void. Somewhere there will be a response. They may say no that within itself is a response but it will accomplish that which God has said for it to be to do and it this word will accomplish. Let's not be ashamed of the word of God and hide it. Let's share it whether it's a Muslim or not. And don't don't worry about whether or not they believe that the Bible is is corrupt or not. Just you read it because your faith in the Bible is contagious. When you believe the Bible with all your heart, with all your mind, with all your soul, with all your life, no one can deny you.
No one can deny you.
>> You know, >> sorry, I get emotional, but that's my love.
>> It's wonderful. The day the day you said, "God, >> help me."
That's when you got your answer. I sat in a in a Catholic church and I said, >> "If you exist, God, reveal yourself to me." Where did he take me? He took me to the Bible.
>> And I came out of that system. In the same way, a Muslim must come out of that system because he's been deceived.
And he must accept the truth as it is in the scriptures.
>> That system is linked to Babylon. Yes.
>> And the third second angel's message is come out.
>> Come out of her.
>> The And that brings I I I'm sorry, but I just want to take you guys back just to this one place. Can because the third angel's message is don't take the mark of the beast.
Why will a Muslim what will be the how will that affect him?
>> The Muslim doesn't really have a rest day. That's what >> Friday is just a lunchtime prayer.
>> It there's no rest day and humanity needs a rest day and the Muslim world in conjunction with the western world has already accepted Sunday as a rest day also in terms of commerce and banking.
>> Perfect.
>> So there is no reason why he shouldn't accept the mark of the beast and accept the authority of Catholicism. He's already gone into a triune union with him in the Abrahamic Accord >> and >> which is run by the Catholic Church.
>> And you can go and look at the buildings that have been erected for the Abrahamic Accord. They're not based on Protestantism, the the Christian one.
It's based on Catholicism. The whole architecture, everything associated with it is based on Catholicism. It's not biblical.
>> Thank you. because it's just I hear that question every time coming and I just want people to know that that's not the stumbling block that's going to keep them from implementing the mark of the beast >> and because we're dealing with uh with a very difficult situation of reaching the people that are in that window.
God is actually intervening through prayer. I mean through through visions and through dreams that people are having for them personally. Isn't that also a fulfillment of the prophecy of Joel that the young people and the men and the women will have dreams and God will will lead because God is in the business of saving souls not in condemning souls. He didn't come to condemn. He came to save. He's a God of love. He's a god of of equality.
And the Islamic world needs to be freed from the shackles of of their theology as much as the Roman Catholic needs to be freed or the occultist or the Hindu or the Buddhist or the shaman or whatever you want to call them.
>> The Jew, >> the Jew, all of them. The Jew has recognized that the time of Daniel chapter uh nine has passed because of their unbelief. No. Then come back to belief and accept that the Messiah that was prefigured in their sacrificial system is their Messiah.
Don't accept a spurious Messiah that will come and wipe out your enemies so that you can rule. We are all of one blood. We are all children of God. And Ishmael is a son of Abraham. But Abraham goes all the way back to being a son of God because he was created by God through Adam.
>> Amen. And also in that in the covenant that Paul mentions in Galatians, the two covenants, the covenant one from Mount Si, Hagar, because he says Abraham had two sons and then he says talks about Isaac and talks about Ishmael and says and then and then talks about Jerusalem above and then Jerus and then talks about Mount Si. One genderth to bondage, the other one is freedom. one persecutes the other one and the one that genderth to bondage persecutes the one that's free. So, so for those that claim that Paul taught that that that um that Islam is uh is is the religion that came from God, then then Paul here clearly says he makes a distinction between these two covenants. And he calls one Hagar one and and and Ishmael and the other one is Isaac and Jerusalem above our mother Jerusalem above. So the these the the freedom that Muslims will feel will only come to them when they find Christ like I did. And like many millions of other Muslims that have come become Christians and believers who finally the shackles fell off. They were freed. They came forward and they're now standing in freedom in Jesus Christ. And my I might add that that when Jesus revealed to me the Sabbath, the night that he showed me the Sabbath, it was in a dream. And in my dream, a 7th Day Adventist Bible co-porter had already told me about the Sabbath. And I didn't know if it was true or not. So I prayed and asked Jesus, I said, "Lord, show me if this is really true, if this is your Sabbath."
And that night, he gave me that dream.
And in my dream, he showed me the Sabbath. And he it stood out. And [clears throat] I was actually standing next to a 7th day Adventist church and it was Sabbath. It was Saturday. But the day was alive. There was this active electricity that was vibing in the air.
Something that only with spiritual eyes you can see. And in my dream that spiritual eye was given to me. And then God showed me the Bible. And next to it he showed me the writings of what we call the spirit of prophecy. And I had no idea that there was even a spirit prophecy at that moment. All of that was shown to me in my dream. And in my dream, a basement was shown to me in a church. And that basement later on, I was baptized in that church. And I went into that basement where they had fellowship. They would have their Sabbath Saturday on Sabbath. They would have podlock in that basement. I stood in that same basement that I had seen in my dream. I had never been in that state basement before. All of that was revealed to me in my dream and and the writings of spirit prophecy writings of Elenad was revealed to me, shown to me my dream. All of that. So this this God is working. Yes. As as he mentioned in the book of Joel, this is happening in a large sense. Why is it happening in a large sense to Muslims? Part of the reason is is that God told Abraham, "For your sake, I will bless your son, Ishmamail." It was never in God's plan for him to have a son named Ishmael. But husband and wife took it upon themselves to go and be God's for a moment. And they they they believed Lucifer. They were standing at the tree. They can be like God. So they decided, let's make a child so we can fulfill God's promise.
So they made a child with him taking Hagar. And now God says, "Okay, you put you put yourself and you put me in a special predicament just like Peter put Christ in a predicament and had boasted that Jesus will pay tax." And Jesus said, "You should have not said that.
But now because you've said it, go there's going to be a fish and there's going to be money in its mouth. You take that money and you pay your tax and my tax."
Abraham and and and Sarah did the same thing. They put God in a predicament. So now God says, "Okay, Abraham, because of you, I will bless your son Ishmael. I will bless him." But he is not the chosen blessing. That blessing will come through Isaac. And because of that promise, God is working very diligently and hard to reach Muslims with the gospel of Jesus Christ. And it's and it's paying off. Praise God. Paying off all over the place.
>> I agree with you 100%. What what they need to understand regarding the Sabbath, the Sabbath is resting in a completed work that God did and not we did. Pagan religion, all false religion is based on what we can accomplish.
And Hagar is Abraham's effort to fulfill God's promise.
>> Whereas Sarah is God's promise that even the barren will be able to bring forth life.
And that is salvation by faith compared with salvation through your own efforts.
That's why the religion of Catholicism is one of rituals and sacraments, sacramental activities and pilgrimages and uh indulgences and Islam is exactly the same. a religion of ritual and works and beads and pilgrimages and own effort and God is looking to see who comes up and steps up to the plate and the ultimate sacrifice is if you give your life for the cause of Allah you go straight to heaven >> and that's why you have a religion like that and uh it is not the religion of the Bible it is not the same deity and anybody who teaches it I believe is either sincerely deceived or deceptive.
So I just want to before we close off completely Shabbaz will you just tell the viewers um about your ministry that you are doing?
>> Yes. Um well our ministry the ministry is Advent Lighthouse Ministries and uh your viewers can uh check us out on on our website admanlighthouse.org and our ministry is basically geared and tailored to reach um Muslims specifically uh Persianspeaking Muslims.
There's about 130 million Iranian Persian speaking people in the world and um uh it's not it's not just that but beyond that but that's our specific goal and and point and God raised this ministry and and we are reaching people in a in an unprecedented way. Now we have uh 20 Bible workers that we support that live on the ground in these in that region and they are planting churches and um and this year we're going to uh bring on another uh probably about 25 more Bible workers that will that that will add to our number. So, we should have around by the end of 2026, um, we should have about 45 Bible workers that that that work for our ministry. And God has blessed God is the one who's making this happen. We're just following his directions. The Lord has blessed me. We we have uh good people here that that support the ministry that work at the ministry and and and our website and our Instagram account is is is growing amongst the Persian speaking people diaspora outside of the region in the 1040 window region and within the 1040 window region and um people are hearing the gospel they're hearing the messages in fact and in fact the husband of one of our employees who's an Iranian and he's translating Walter's uh uh presentations into Persian. So Walter is now speaking in tongues in Persian and and and uh and it's really fascinating to see him to see those sermons in Persian. So God is blessing this ministry. Our work is growing and uh please pray for us and uh and uh and we'll continue to pray for you. God bless you.
>> Thank you. It was a an honor to speak to you. It was an absolute pleasure to speak to you. I know this will be considered controversial by many, but I believe it is a sincere longing to reach people that have been kept in in basically darkness regarding all of these issues. And uh everybody has a right to hear the gospel and to be able to respond to it. And and your mission is very very important and God will bless your mission because it is the the message for our time to those people that you are trying to reach. May God richly bless you in what you are doing.
[clears throat] >> Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. God bless you.
>> Thank you.
>> Shall we close in prayer?
Our loving heavenly father, we look at the the other son and we look at the turmoil of history and the blood that has been shed over the ages.
And basically what we have is a war against the son of God.
And Lord, I pray that even this presentation will somehow be instrumental in reaching people so that they can make a decision for the times that we are living in. I pray that you will bless the ministry of Shabbaz and that you will bless the efforts that we put forth to bring the three angels messages to the world. And thank you Lord that we can have discussions like this and may they do the work that we envisioned for it to do is our prayer in Jesus' name. Amen.
>> Amen.
>> Amen. Amen. Amen.
[music] [music] >> [music]
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