Can't Make A Hero Out of Him | A Sophie Poe Interview Discussing Billy the Kid and Pat Garrett

[00:00:04][music] [music] >> Mr. Poe did not know the kid.

[00:00:23]>> No, he didn't know the kid. That's the reason I sent him up there. No.

[00:00:28]>> Garrett did.

[00:00:29]>> Yeah. Garrett always wanted to go away.

[00:00:32]He said it's a wild goose chase and he determined not to not to stay. But Mr. Poe said Patty said I think we ought to stay until we find out what's going on here. So they went in and hitched the horses in the peach orchard.

[00:00:50]And then they went around to this house as I showed you. And that's where Mr. Poe met the kid for the first time. Mr. Poe sitting out in front of that gate.

[00:01:03]He sitting in the gate and Kid McKinney was sitting outside.

[00:01:08]And he came up along this fence. It was picket fence along there.

[00:01:12]>> And that was Billy the Kid.

[00:01:13]>> That was the Kid.

[00:01:14]>> Now there's some stories out, Mrs. Poe, that the Kid he had a butcher knife in his hand.

[00:01:21]>> Yeah.

[00:01:21]>> That he was going out to cut some meat off of some beef hanging in a tree. Have you heard that?

[00:01:26]>> Yes. Yes, that was right. That's what he did. That's what Mr. Poe said.

[00:01:30]>> And he probably saw Mr. Poe and went up to inquire as to who he was.

[00:01:33]>> Yes. That's it. Whenever you any strangers came around, why the Kid always went out right straight to find out who it was and if he thought they weren't all right, he killed them right there.

[00:01:45]He had a knife in his hand and nothing on but his underwear and two belts of cartridges and six-shooter.

[00:01:53]And soon as he saw Mr. Poe, he just took his his pistol against him and he said, "Kill us." And Mr. Pool said on me, he goes, "Don't be alarmed." And he did that three times. And Mr. Pool said he thought Providence was taking care of it. He could have killed him right there. And then when the kid asked him the third time who he was, he backed back into this room here.

[00:02:20]It just shows in the picture here in the old office. He backed right back in there.

[00:02:26]And Garrett was sitting right at the head of Pete Maxwell's bed.

[00:02:30]>> Visiting with Pete Maxwell?

[00:02:32]>> Huh?

[00:02:32]>> He was visiting with Pete Maxwell.

[00:02:34]>> Yes, he was asking him about the kid that Maxwell was denying. And uh Pete Maxwell was a good man, but he's like everybody else. He knew his life depended on keeping out out of the way of being with the kid. Cuz he'd shoot everybody. Shoot him in the back. Shoot him in the face. Kill him.

[00:02:55]So Patrick was sitting there and when kid came in, he saw Garrett sitting there and he said to Pete Maxwell, said, "Pete, who are those men out there?"

[00:03:06]And Garrett said that he never even aimed. He said he had his pistol like that and he and he shot. He shot him right in the heart. Well, then the kid shot. And his bullet struck head of the bed, one of those old-fashioned beds.

[00:03:24]Well, then Pete Maxwell jumped up and ran out.

[00:03:29]And as he went out, Mr. Pool started to kill him.

[00:03:32]He said he just thought they were in for killing there. And Garrett knocked his gun up.

[00:03:39]>> Garrett knocked Mr. Pool's gun up?

[00:03:40]>> Gun up. He said, "Don't, for God's sake, don't kill Pete."

[00:03:45]Well, then they got him to go out and get a candle and bring it around and set it go window sill.

[00:03:52]And they look in, and there was a kid dead on the floor.

[00:03:56]They stayed all night there, and the Mexican women came in and wept over him like they do, you know.

[00:04:04]He did He's good Mexicans. He's like Robin Hood. He'd steal from the white people and give it to Mexicans, so they thought he's all right.

[00:04:14]Well, they took him to blacksmith shop and put him out on a bench, and set candles around him. And the next morning, they took him out and buried him there at Fort Sumner.

[00:04:28]You know, he 21 years old, and he had killed 22 men.

[00:04:33]And they can't make a hero out of that man.

[00:04:36]>> There was considerable reward, I think, offered connection with the kid's death.

[00:04:40]Did Garrett divide up all right with Mr. Poe and Kid McKinney?

[00:04:45]>> no.

[00:04:45]No, he didn't.

[00:04:46]>> Well, did Mr. Poe get any of that reward at all?

[00:04:50]>> No.

[00:04:51]>> Didn't get any?

[00:04:52]>> No, he never got any reward.

[00:04:53]>> And McKinney didn't get any either, did he?

[00:04:55]>> No.

[00:04:56]>> Garrett took it all.

[00:04:57]>> Uh-huh.

[00:04:58]>> As a matter of fact, while Pat Garrett was a law officer, wasn't he just as cold a a character as Billy the Kid or any of the rest of them?

[00:05:07]>> Why, I think he killed seven people after he got to be sheriff. Of course, that's his aim, killing. Garrett had told a Mason he wanted to be sheriff for one reason, two reasons I might say. He says, "I want to be sheriff so I can carry a gun, and I'm going to kill two men. I'm going to kill John Poe and Smith Lee." Smith was Mr. Poe's deputy in the early days and jailer when he was sheriff.

[00:05:38]Pat didn't know anything about masonry, you know. And this man, he told Mr. Poe.

[00:05:46]Mr. Poe didn't say a word to me about it. Thought he never wanted to worry me.

[00:05:51]Well, anyhow, that's something Mr. Poe did.

[00:05:54]Went to work to run another man for sheriff.

[00:06:00]And they worked at it and they elected Joe Miller and they just left out.

[00:06:05]>> Mrs. Poe, didn't Teddy Roosevelt appoint Pat Garrett to some office?

[00:06:10]>> He was um customs officer.

[00:06:12]>> Customs officer?

[00:06:13]>> At the El Paso.

[00:06:15]>> Yes. And then Teddy Roosevelt removed him. Do you know why he did that?

[00:06:18]>> and then he wanted Pat wanted Roosevelt to send him as ambassador to Mexico.

[00:06:25]And um Mr. Garrett told us himself. He said Teddy turned him down. He said he knew everything that I'd done.

[00:06:34]And he said when he went to see him, he said, "Pat, I can't appoint you. What woman was that you were out with on such and such an occasion?

[00:06:45]Now, what woman were you out with on this other occasion?"

[00:06:49]"No," he said, "I can't appoint a man like that as ambassador to Mexico."

[00:06:54]So, Garrett was turned down.

[00:06:58]>> And he did not reappoint him as collector.

[00:07:00]>> No. [clears throat] No, Teddy was a clean man.

[00:07:05]He stands for those things.

[00:07:07]>> Did you ever hear Mr. Poe discuss the killing of Pat Garrett? Did he think that Jim Miller killed him?

[00:07:16]>> Well, Lease Crutchfield did not believe the word we got.

[00:07:20]Lease was only 19 and it wasn't anything against him only that he had this ranch, you know, Pat Garrett's ranch and he leased it.

[00:07:30]And it didn't say in the contract what he was put on.

[00:07:35]He put on goats. And of course, we all know goats are awful bad range, you know, goats and sheep both. sold.

[00:07:43]Garrett told him he had to take the goats off.

[00:07:47]And he said he wouldn't. He said there's nothing in the contract that says what I should put on there.

[00:07:53]After I got him in a meeting, he said if I go out to that ranch and all the goats are still on that ranch, I'll kill you on sight. And so, he and this man >> Miller?

[00:08:08]>> Yes.

[00:08:09]They They went out to the ranch.

[00:08:12]And I don't suppose Miller knew anything about Garrett going to kill him. Brazel, he said that Garrett stopped in the road and got out.

[00:08:21]And he said Brazel had one of these folding guns. And he had a pistol, a six-shooter, but Garrett didn't know that.

[00:08:31]And he thought that before that boy could open that gun, that he'd get him.

[00:08:37]And he went around behind the buckboard and got his rifle out of the out of the back of the buckboard, and walked right around.

[00:08:46]And the boy just shot him dead as he came around.

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