Caller Claims God is Both Your Parent And Your Spouse!?

Added: 2026-05-29

[00:00:00]God provides. How are you?

[00:00:02]>> Guys, how are >> Good. How are y'all doing today?

[00:00:05]>> I'm doing good. Um, you are 18 and older, correct?

[00:00:11]>> Correct.

[00:00:12]>> All right. So, today we are talking about questioning faith. Um, I want to know like if you think that your God created a plan of salvation for you, uh, doesn't that mean that you do know the mind of your God? Do you believe that it's possible to know the mind of a god?

[00:00:33]>> Yes, I do.

[00:00:35]>> You do? H how is how is that possible to know the mind of an infinite being? Like you are a finite being, right?

[00:00:47]With limited cognitive abilities.

[00:00:51]>> Huh?

[00:00:51]>> I don't think we're finite. I think we're infinite as well.

[00:00:55]>> You think humans are infinite?

[00:00:57]Yeah.

[00:01:00]>> You know what finite means?

[00:01:02]>> Well, spiritually cuz humans have spirits according to Christian beliefs, right?

[00:01:09]>> Well, you believe it, but that doesn't make it true, right? What is a spirit?

[00:01:18]>> Being that lives infinitely.

[00:01:22]>> No, that's what it does. I'm asking what is it?

[00:01:30]I would say it's the most prime version of life.

[00:01:38]>> Like the source of life, >> prime spirit.

[00:01:45]>> Optimus promise.

[00:01:46]>> It's the foundation of all life.

[00:01:50]>> What do you mean by the foundation of all life? God provides.

[00:01:54]Because I don't think there's any living things that aren't connected to spiritual things. In fact, I would say everything is connected to spiritual things.

[00:02:03]>> What do you mean when you say spiritual things?

[00:02:10]>> Every every kind of spirit, you know, you got like gods, angels, all kinds of beings out there, right?

[00:02:17]>> No, I think that's why we're asking the question because if we saw them out there, I don't think we would be asking you to define them for us. But spiritual is indistinguishable from imaginary. So if you're saying it's out there, how are you detecting it? How how are you where is it? Help us understand that.

[00:02:36]>> Yeah. So I would say that somebody has to experiment through prayer. I think that's the best opportunity.

[00:02:43]>> Experiment through prayer.

[00:02:45]>> Yep.

[00:02:46]>> So I just say words in my mind and whatever words I say in my mind become real.

[00:02:56]You're talking about like manifestation, right?

[00:03:00]>> No, I'm trying to understand what you mean.

[00:03:03]>> No, I'm just trying to understand about what you mean by spiritual.

[00:03:08]>> There's one aspect that's like telepathy where you're you're doing your best to communicate with a spirit.

[00:03:15]>> Y'all can't communicate in English. How to telepathy? You get what I'm saying?

[00:03:22]>> Hold on. So, you're you're speaking to your God telepathically?

[00:03:28]>> Yes.

[00:03:31]>> So, he speaks to your mind and you speak to its mind.

[00:03:36]>> It's a oneness.

[00:03:38]It's an interconnected network.

[00:03:41]>> Another hive mind, another like a a universe. You believe in the universal mind thing too?

[00:03:54]>> There are individuals but all the indivi individuals are actually connected to each other. So it depends how you look at it but yeah would all be interconnected as like one big thing.

[00:04:04]>> So is God VCna?

[00:04:08]>> I don't know what that is.

[00:04:10]>> I don't know.

[00:04:10]>> So wait and so if you if y'all are all one mind then that means you know what each other are thinking at any given time.

[00:04:20]Well, that's the goal of empathy, isn't it?

[00:04:23]>> No, I don't need to know what another person's thinking to be to feel empathy towards them.

[00:04:29]>> That would be like a super high version of empathy. That would be super ideal, though, wouldn't it? Wouldn't that be beneficial?

[00:04:36]>> Are you able to empathize with your guy?

[00:04:40]>> Yes. question how >> you know I I'm it's like seeing things from their perspective everybody's seeing everything from everybody's perspective so yeah seeing things from their perspective >> how how can you empathize with an all- knowing all powerful uh omnipresent being like and who is responsible who has sovereign power right and responsible for billions of people on the planet responsible for uh aliens, angels, demons, hell, and his uh his son who is also like him. A ghost that's just like him and uh the devil.

[00:05:35]How How can you empathize with all of that?

[00:05:40]Because there's a commonality among living things and I would say every living thing is basically trying to be an empire. Like even oregano that I'm growing right now >> what >> this man said oregano she asked you how God provides. How can you do that?

[00:06:01]I'm like he gonna be basil next week.

[00:06:09]Can you answer the how question?

[00:06:10]>> Living Living things want to expand and multiply and be an empire. That's what they want to do. So that's what God wants to do, too. So God is expanding and all that just like every other living thing.

[00:06:22]>> But h but how do you empathize with him? How do you empathize with him? Do you know what empathy is?

[00:06:35]>> Yeah. Well, God, listen, God God's got goals. God wants to be friends with everybody. And I can I can empathize with God. God, not everybody wants to be friends with God.

[00:06:44]>> How do you know he wants to be friends with everybody?

[00:06:48]>> Because of what the Bible says. And when I pray, when I talk to God, >> does he want to be friends with Satan?

[00:06:55]>> Yeah.

[00:06:57]>> Your God wants to be friends with Satan.

[00:07:00]>> Absolutely.

[00:07:02]>> Why?

[00:07:04]Cuz God wants to be friends with everybody and so do I.

[00:07:12]>> Satan is God's enemy. Correct.

[00:07:18]>> I'm still trying to figure that out. It could be that it could be that the Heavenly Father asked Satan to like Well, just look at the book of Job, right? It's almost like they're um playing a game with like Job's life and discussing, you know. So, I I don't know if they have a setup. I don't know if this is like a game that they're playing. I don't know their whole backstory is what I'm trying to say. I don't know the whole backstory. It could be an agreement.

[00:07:43]>> I thought you talked to him telepathically.

[00:07:46]>> Yeah. Go on.

[00:07:48]>> So, if you talk to him telepathically, can't you ask him right quick?

[00:07:53]>> Okay. You want me to pray about it right now?

[00:07:56]>> No, you ain't got to pray like you ain't got to pray out loud. If you talk to him telepathically, there's no reason for us to hear the words that you say. Like, you just talk to him telepathically and ask him if they had a setup.

[00:08:09]>> Okay. So, as as far as I've gotten, I I'm pretty sure there was a flood before Adam and Eve, and there was an entire drama that went down before that. I I haven't I haven't gone to like the prequel prequel. You're asking about like the prequel prequel. I just know about the prequel before Adam and Eve.

[00:08:26]What are are we talking God or DC Marvel?

[00:08:33]Like are what? Are you talking about a prequel?

[00:08:37]>> So, okay. So, if you go to Genesis 1 says that God created the heavens and the earth, right? And then if you go to Genesis 1:2, it says that then the earth became like uh destroyed. And uh the the words in the Hebrew are Tovo and Boho, which implies that it got overrun with water. So it it implies that there was a flood that happened in Genesis.

[00:09:00]>> You're you're trying to say that that the in Genesis 1, it's being recreated.

[00:09:10]The earth is being recreated from a previous flood. Is that what you're trying to say?

[00:09:15]>> Well, in in Genesis 1 vers1, everything was created all nice. And then in Genesis 1 vers2, it points to a destruction. And then if you and then the verses after that is about God fixing everything up.

[00:09:27]>> You said Genesis 1:2 points to a destruction.

[00:09:30]>> He's saying that he's I think he's appealing to the Hebrew.

[00:09:34]>> Do you read Hebrew? God provides.

[00:09:38]>> Yeah. I use blue letter Bible to look into the Hebrew.

[00:09:42]I didn't ask it if you I said, "Do you read Hebrew?

[00:09:48]Do you read Hebrew or are you just >> Huh?

[00:09:52]>> I just know some of it to understand some verses that are controversial, you know, when I need to use it kind of thing."

[00:09:58]>> Yeah. But like, so if you don't read Hebrew, why are you using the Hebrew to come up with an interpretation that there was a flood before he said, "Let there be light?"

[00:10:10]Like just because Genesis 2 >> like Genesis 2 says that the earth was formless and dark, right?

[00:10:20]>> And it says that your God spirit hovered over the waters, right? Over the darkness, over the waters. So, like why are you positing that Genesis 2 um is saying that there was a flood that happened on this earth once before and then your God starts building the earth again for a second time. Why are you positing that?

[00:10:47]So, one of those words only happens in the Bible in the Hebrew like uh a few very few times. And that >> matches >> what?

[00:10:57]>> Which home?

[00:11:00]>> Uh I can I can look it up right now, but it matches Jeremiah 4:23 almost exactly with the the way that it's set up. I can look it up right now.

[00:11:10]One second.

[00:11:12]You You said Jeremiah what?

[00:11:16]>> 4:23, I believe it is.

[00:11:20]>> I looked on the earth and it was complete chaos into the heavens and they had no light.

[00:11:28]>> So if you go to the Hebrew, you'll find out that it uses the same tohu and boho as Genesis 1 vers2. And it's describing even what that looks like because if one verse, go ahead.

[00:11:42]>> So it says uh vohu kashim or it it's saying the same thing as Genesis 1 that it was formless, it was desolate, there was a void. that's not um pointing to a a flood. Like where are you getting that this is a flood?

[00:12:09]How are you how are you tying Jeremiah 4 and Genesis 1 together just because it has to bo, >> right? Well, I think it's fair to say, well, if if Jeremiah 4:23 is describing to and and boho boho, what does that look like? And we see the preceding verses say that there's mountains that are trembling. There's hills moving back and forth.

[00:12:36]Um everything the fruitful land was now a wilderness. And that happened because God was angry.

[00:12:44]But what is this? H this is Jeremiah uh predicting something after people are on the earth. Like what? Like your God has already created. Adam and Eve has already done their thing here when Jeremiah is seeing this. What What does this have to do with the beginnings?

[00:13:14]Because >> if we look at the setup of Genesis chapter one, >> it says that every the water's covering everything and then we see God moving the water around.

[00:13:32]>> What's your point?

[00:13:34]That still doesn't link it to Jeremiah.

[00:13:36]That was her question.

[00:13:39]Well, these these sentences match each other completely with the toou and boho.

[00:13:45]>> Just because if you see is in Isa in the text later on, are you going to say that um that that has something to do with Genesis 2?

[00:13:56]Like I'm confused just because you see some of the same words. Uh to um just means formless and void. Like I'm like I'm so confused. This is Jeremiah uh predicting destruction again and then the God is like, "No, I made a promise.

[00:14:17]I'm not going to do it." Like Jeremiah is having a vision and your God is like, "I'm not going to do it. I made a promise." Right? Even in the same vision, if you go down to Jeremiah 4:29, he's talking about cities being abandoned and people not living in it.

[00:14:33]like this isn't this doesn't have anything to do with um with Genesis 1, but also like I don't even know. I forgot why he even brought us to this cuz we was talking about >> it was a prequel flood. He was saying that it was telepathic.

[00:14:51]>> Is this what is this what you telepathically ask of God and this is what he told you?

[00:14:57]>> Yeah, I believe this is inside to the prequel. What happened? I think drama drama happened and this points to the drama because I think toll and bo happens when God is doing drama and gets upset >> but how are you linking those two things is what we're asking like show us how you've connected those two scriptures >> well all right one of those words that only happens in the Bible twice or three times times. I forget if it's to let me look that up.

[00:15:34]>> What does the frequency of a word appearing in a book have to do with the connection between Genesis and Jeremiah?

[00:15:45]>> Because imagine like it's saying in the Bible that something got desolated or wrecked. You'd be like, "Well, how did it get to that level of wrecked or desolated?" You know, >> you're God's whole book. What are you talking about?

[00:15:58]>> What? Your god up throughout this entire book. What are you What are you talking about?

[00:16:03]>> Well, that's why I'm saying that something happened. I'm saying that something happened therefore at Genesis 1 vers2 that it doesn't really specify.

[00:16:12]>> There was something dramatic that God earth was it just said. Okay. So again, tohoo just means that it was like with no form, right? There was nothing.

[00:16:24]That's what to means, right?

[00:16:27]And then uh boho but uh just means that it was like the abyss. Like it that's it. It was a void. Like I I'm so confused. It does not mean that there was a destruction that there was a flood. I don't know where did the blue letter Bible give you that or did your tele the telepathic telephone which what like where are you getting that from that it means that it's a flood or destruction?

[00:16:58]>> Yeah, but Jeremiah uses those words to describe the earth and surely earth has stuff there. So it can't those words can't mean that it's like totally without any forms at all.

[00:17:09]>> That's what they mean in Hebrew.

[00:17:12]>> That's that's what they mean in Hebrew though. God provides.

[00:17:16]Like you can't just you can't just make up a word.

[00:17:20]>> I mean, you can't just make up a definition for an ancient language.

[00:17:24]>> But I'm saying that those words have other meanings like desolate, erect, you know.

[00:17:30]>> That's what I'm saying.

[00:17:32]>> No, the word for tou, right, just means formless, right? It's just formless.

[00:17:39]uh confusion like nothingness.

[00:17:54]It can mean chaos, a wilderness, confusion.

[00:18:03]You know, >> which I just said confusion. It does not mean destruction. It doesn't mean like uh a flood happened like these are all state of like these are all like states of being like the if if I look at uh to um let me see if I can see if it's anywhere else in the Bible. It's used 24 times in the text.

[00:18:37]>> Three.

[00:18:38]>> Huh?

[00:18:39]>> I thought he said three times.

[00:18:41]>> It It occurs 24 times.

[00:18:47]>> It's in 1st Samuel, Deuteronomy 32, Job 6, Job 12 and 4, Job. It's all in this Bible. Huh?

[00:18:56]>> That only occur three times. It's the second word. But that only >> You said both of these were only in here.

[00:19:02]Uh, let me see.

[00:19:06]>> The infrequency of the appearance of a word still does not get us to a pre flood flood.

[00:19:16]>> I think I don't know. I don't Maybe you're not talking to your God uh telepathically. God provides. Maybe you maybe you need to get a new provider.

[00:19:29]>> I think God does great. I'm very grateful for the connection I have with God.

[00:19:34]>> But but God pro God provides best. How do you know or how do you distinguish between you you talking to you your own thoughts, your own subconscious like your own emotions and a God speaking to you? How do you make sure you're not conflating those two things?

[00:19:53]>> That's a good question. I think that with this all powerful God through all things are possible. There would be manifested realities that only like a miraculous God can do, right?

[00:20:06]>> So God communicates to you. Does he tell you what to do and what not to do?

[00:20:12]>> Definitely.

[00:20:14]>> Have you ever been wrong?

[00:20:19]>> Have I ever been wrong? Yes.

[00:20:22]So, how do you handle being wrong when you claim that this guidance came from your God telepathically? Does that mean God was wrong?

[00:20:29]>> Mean God was >> Oh, not about that. No, I meant there there have been times when I argue with God or maybe I didn't go to God or I wasn't listening enough or not asking.

[00:20:39]>> She's asking, "Have you ever been wrong when you thought" She's asking, "Have you ever been wrong when you thought you were talking to your God?"

[00:20:50]That's what you were asking, right?

[00:20:51]>> Mhm.

[00:20:52]>> Okay.

[00:20:57]>> Have you ever been wrong when you thought you were talking to your god?

[00:21:02]>> You mean I would say it can take time to learn to differentiate your all the thoughts from like God's thoughts? But no, I don't think once you set up that connection and it's stable that that is wrong. But I think that takes time for some people to develop.

[00:21:21]>> That's not that wasn't my question. My question was my first question was does he tell you what to do and what not to do? And you said yes. And then my follow-up question was, "Have you ever been wrong?" And you also said yes. So, if God is telling you what to do or what not to do and you follow those instructions because you've telepathically connected to him and gotten those instructions, you should not be wrong.

[00:21:44]That would be a wonderful litness test to determine whether or not you're truly hearing from a God. You should never be wrong.

[00:21:51]>> And that is the goal to have that 247 where you're going to God for guidance about everything.

[00:21:58]And I am I am attempting to do that.

[00:22:02]But in your attempt then that means that you should admit that you're not telepathically communicating with a god if you can be wrong currently.

[00:22:11]Your system is flawed. Your lines are crossed.

[00:22:16]>> Yeah. The system is vulnerable if somebody's not doing it like a 100% of the time. That's true.

[00:22:23]>> What what percentage of the time? Why would the what how can your your lack of effort impact God's accuracy?

[00:22:34]Because if God is right and God is perfect, then whatever you get from him and if you know you've gotten it from him, it should always be correct. Right?

[00:22:42]You should never make a mistake.

[00:22:47]But I think that they've set this up as a game where you can level up and the the more you connect, the better things are going to turn out. What >> who is who is they?

[00:22:58]>> God.

[00:23:01]>> God's pronouns are they them.

[00:23:05]>> I mean the God of Okay, listen. It says that it says that male and female were uh created in the image of God, which means that I believe that God has both male and female qualities if we're going to be specific about it. So that's why I use they.

[00:23:24]>> How many of them are talking to you right now?

[00:23:30]>> Well, I mean the I listen I I I pray to the heavenly father just like Jesus did. So that's why I say say heavenly father.

[00:23:40]>> Do you ever call them heavenly mother?

[00:23:44]>> Yeah.

[00:23:45]>> I just need to know.

[00:23:46]>> No, that's true.

[00:23:47]>> Do you ever call Do you ever call them heavenly mother, too?

[00:23:51]>> Yeah.

[00:23:51]>> Very true.

[00:23:52]>> Because they have both male and female qualities. Yeah, I would. Yes, I do.

[00:23:58]>> God provides. You have never prayed to your heavenly mother.

[00:24:02]>> You haven't called that heavenly mother one time since you've been on this call.

[00:24:05]>> Not once.

[00:24:07]I'm fine calling them the heavenly mother.

[00:24:11]>> Huh?

[00:24:12]>> I'm fine calling them the heavenly mother, heavenly father, heavenly mother.

[00:24:17]>> But you don't.

[00:24:17]>> There are there are allegorories in the Bible with motherly allegorories like when it's referring to them as a mother chicken taking care of the chicks.

[00:24:30]>> What story is that?

[00:24:32]>> What in the reading rainbow are you talking about right now? God provides.

[00:24:36]Oh, sure. I can give you the scripture.

[00:24:38]One second.

[00:24:42]>> But even when you find the scripture, you have never you we've had multiple conversations with you, right? And you've never referred to God as heavenly mother. Never.

[00:24:51]And you know, you haven't.

[00:24:58]What scripture is he talking about?

[00:25:00]>> I I don't know. Did he say Yahweh was raising chickens?

[00:25:06]Is that is that what >> Luke 13 is going on? What >> you said? Luke what?

[00:25:16]>> Luke 13:34.

[00:25:18]>> Luke 13:34.

[00:25:20]>> Yeah.

[00:25:25]>> Jerusalem. Jerusalem. The city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it. How often I have desired to gather your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings and you were not willing.

[00:25:39]How is this Yahweh raising chickens?

[00:25:41]God, >> that's what the allegory is about. The the allegory is about the heavenly mother wanting to take care of everybody.

[00:25:49]>> Now it's a heavenly mother.

[00:25:54]So when whenever uh Yahweh uses a metaphor, actually this is this not Yahweh talking uh but whenever the Bible uses a metaphor as a mother.

[00:26:11]Um that's the heavenly mother. Like when it's something like that you think a woman or that's feminine, that's heavenly mother talking.

[00:26:24]Is that is that what is that what you're saying?

[00:26:26]>> I would say the god of gods has masculine and feminine qualities and this is a very feminine allegory and therefore I attri I attribute that to the god of god's feminine side.

[00:26:36]Femininity comes from the god of gods.

[00:26:39]>> That wasn't her question. Can you answer her question?

[00:26:44]>> Yeah. I attribute that to the heavenly mother. So yeah, it's like different aspects of the god of gods. Yeah.

[00:26:53]So why didn't Jesus pray to the heavenly mother?

[00:26:59]>> That's a very good question.

[00:27:02]>> If you're saying that this is the this is the nature of the the divine, then that should have been the nature of the divine when Jesus was on earth as well. Why didn't he ever mention that?

[00:27:13]>> I think the Bible has a very progressive thing, you know, where they're illuminating certain truths over time.

[00:27:21]So maybe maybe the culture wasn't ready for that truth just yet.

[00:27:27]>> What truth?

[00:27:29]>> It is within scripture that there are uh feminine qualities to the God of gods and they were mostly focused on the masculine.

[00:27:40]>> What feminine qualities do you see reflected in this God in the Bible?

[00:27:45]>> Nurturing, caring, feminine, sweet.

[00:27:50]motherly, creative.

[00:27:52]>> Can you show me a passage where this God was nurturing >> or sweet >> or sweet?

[00:28:09]>> Ezekiel 16 took he he saved a a baby. Are you >> a baby in the wilderness?

[00:28:20]>> You think Ezekiel 16 is him being sweet?

[00:28:25]>> You think Ezekiel 16 is him being sweet?

[00:28:29]He literally talk He literally calls her hoe like five times.

[00:28:34]He tell He literally tells her that she's such a hoe that she pay people to for her to be a hoe. She don't get paid for her.

[00:28:49]>> The story starts out nice when he saves the when God saves the baby and raises the baby. It's very nice. Very sweet.

[00:28:57]>> Are you okay? He he he literally finds a baby that was thrown out. He raises this baby. Mar waits until the baby gets of age. He sits and he looks at this baby.

[00:29:12]Waits until she gets plump. like he's lusting lusting after her. And then when she gets of age, he marries her, takes her virginity, right? And then gets mad, gets jealous because other men want her and she's uh out, you know, dating other men.

[00:29:34]And then he tells her, "You are a hoe.

[00:29:37]You're such a hoe that you pay people for you to be a hoe, they don't even pay you." You think that's sweet?

[00:29:48]>> Oh my goodness. So, verse six says, "I passed by you and saw you flailing about in your blood. As you lay in your blood, I said to you, live and grow up like a plant of the field.

[00:30:01]You grew up and became tall and arrived at full womanhood. Your breasts were formed and your hair had grown. Yet you were naked and bare. I passed by you again and looked on you. You were at the age for love. I spread the edge of my cloak over you and covered your nakedness. You're seeing love in this.

[00:30:23]You're seeing sweetness and kindness in this.

[00:30:27]>> The God of gods rescued a baby and adopted the baby and raised the baby. He >> No, he he he rescued a baby, adopted a baby, and then married it.

[00:30:42]I mean, I focus on the heroic and nice parts of the story, right? Starts off very nice >> and you just ignore the fact that he married a baby that he raised.

[00:30:59]>> I mean, the rest of the story is not so nice, but that part of the story is nice.

[00:31:09]So the first part of the story that was nice negates the second part where he marries a baby that he raised. Is that what you're saying to me?

[00:31:19]>> Well, the baby grew up and got distracted. That was that was the issue.

[00:31:26]>> What was the issue?

[00:31:32]>> No.

[00:31:33]>> Well, I mean they had a solid friendship.

[00:31:38]I think God provides.

[00:31:39]>> What the hell? Like what do you what do you I don't know what to say.

[00:31:45]Like >> I think he remixes the stories in his brain when he >> way that you could see that I guess an adult male god would find a baby um raise this baby. I don't know, Allah Tarzan or some like that and then eventually marry the baby and you still feel as though this is a story of love, kindness, and feminine energy. Is that that what you're wanting us to believe?

[00:32:17]>> I mean, the human was raised up to maturity. You know what I'm saying?

[00:32:23]>> Yeah. Oh, you got to go.

[00:32:25]>> Yeah.

[00:32:26]>> You You got to go. I cannot entertain the rest of this conversation.

[00:32:31]>> This is why y'all are dangerous.

[00:32:33]>> Yeah. No, y'all. Y'all don't think.

[00:32:36]Y'all don't question >> I cannot. I'm sorry.

[00:32:41]I can't. That's No. Why can't I take you down?

[00:32:50]>> Let's focus at the beginning of the story when he finds that baby. Huh?

[00:32:54]>> Right. That's like that's just too much.

[00:32:56]Like you're the way you're sitting there talking and then you're like you're getting gifted by somebody in the comments right now as you talk about the way this God found a child.

[00:33:10]>> Married it, groomed it, and then you victim blame the child.

[00:33:16]I I got >> And even though like the crazy thing is is that this is a a metaphor, right? The story is a metaphor, but the way your God talks about a infant child a a uh and and sits and lusts and watches a infant child grow uh to her u maturity.

[00:33:40]Talks about her breast, right? Talks about um making her his wife like no like I don't see how you see this as a um a good story. And then like the things that you were saying is just problematic for for men who for you know pedophiles um who agree with the the language like that's coming out of your mouth right now.

[00:34:12]>> Do you not see that God provides?

[00:34:18]I mean, I was focused on the part of the story where he saves a baby and adopts a baby and raises her to the maturity of an adult woman.

[00:34:25]>> Don't you think that that happens when uh children are adopted in foster homes that PDFs, PD files um adopt children for the purposes of >> grooming them? Uh >> grooming and molesting them.

[00:34:49]I don't know about that stuff.

[00:34:53]>> But I mean, >> what' you say?

[00:34:58]>> I f I focus on positive things. I don't I I do my best not to think about negative realities.

[00:35:06]>> Do you think that there's a there's a a threshold at which positivity becomes toxic?

[00:35:15]I don't I don't think I don't think so.

[00:35:17]How would how would positivity become toxic?

[00:35:20]>> When you ignore truth and when you ignore reality and when you ignore harm, it becomes very toxic. Because if you are telling us that you are able to see nothing but like positivity from a story where a grown ass god found a baby, raised a baby, waited and and groomed this baby to become its wife. And you're saying that that's positive. That's an example of of toxic positivity for sure.

[00:35:50]>> Look at the language.

[00:35:52]Like, have you even read all of uh Ezekiel 16?

[00:35:56]>> He probably stopped when he found the baby.

[00:36:00]>> Yes, I've I've read the entire Bible.

[00:36:03]So you you you you read the language that is used and how your God speaks to his so-called baby wife.

[00:36:16]>> But the thing is, so this is my point though. If you think of Christianity, God is both the parent and the spouse in the relationship in Christianity.

[00:36:29]>> Say that. Say that one more time out loud and listen to yourself like audibly and telepathically as you say that Isaiah.

[00:36:36]>> Hold on a second. Hold on a second.

[00:36:38]>> What?

[00:36:39]>> Filling the role of both a parent and a spouse.

[00:36:44]>> And that sounds okay to you?

[00:36:50]>> That's Isaiah 54:E5.

[00:36:53]For your maker is your husband, the Lord of hosts is his name, and your redeemer the holy one. of Israel, the God of the whole world shall he be called.

[00:37:05]>> So you don't think that there's anything wrong with a relationship where one individual is both the parent and the spouse? Is that what you're saying to me?

[00:37:17]I think Christianity goes from the relationship where God is the rescuer, then God is a parent, then God is a friend, then God is a spouse. The the dynamic of the relationship changes or gets more intense.

[00:37:35]>> So he groomed you too.

[00:37:37]>> So he groomed you too in addition to whoever he groomed in Ezekiel. Is that what's that what you're saying?

[00:37:44]I'm saying that God wants a super close relationship with everybody.

[00:37:48]Isn't that what the Bible says?

[00:37:51]>> I mean, the Bible says a lot of things, but I'm stuck on the fact that he can fill both roles of being parent and spouse. Like, that's problematic, and I think it should be for you as well.

[00:38:06]I think that it solves all the relational issues because that means that a just one human can find completeness of all their relationship requirements just with God.

[00:38:21]They could talk to God all the time, communicate with God all the time.

[00:38:26]>> Talking to and communicating with are two separate things. I'm talking about the role of being a a spouse and how that differs from the role of being a parent in a multitude of ways. Do you not see how those two things should never overlap or intertwine? That's what I'm I'm focused on. And I'm I'm wondering why you don't see that as a whole ass adult man.

[00:38:56]But but this is this is spiritually we're talking about we're talking about spiritually spiritually the closeness of rel of the relationship gets closer where it becomes like a prayer >> how how do how do those dynamics differ in the spiritual world than they they do in the physical because I know my my father would have never been my spouse.

[00:39:16]The person I marry would never have been my father ever in the physical world.

[00:39:22]Are those rules relaxed in the spiritual?

[00:39:26]>> What do you think of Lot >> and his daughters?

[00:39:32]>> I I don't that's not a I don't think that's a very nice story. I think that Lot wasn't focused on God. That was the issue.

[00:39:41]So, and and what I'm saying with the relationship is spiritually the focus is supposed to be on God. And when the focus is 100% there, it means that the thoughts are going to be aimed in that direction and the communication is going to be there and it's going to be solid 100,000% of the time. When people are genuinely in love, they think about the person a lot. They're, you know, their life is prioritizing them. That's why it's such a good allegory, I think.

[00:40:11]>> Did your God love Lot's daughters enough to to to protect them?

[00:40:25]I I do believe that God loves everybody and has a plan for everybody.

[00:40:32]>> Didn't ask you about everybody. She asked you specifically about Lot's daughters.

[00:40:38]>> Then they would be included in everybody.

[00:40:42]>> Were they protected in the story?

[00:40:45]I I mean I think I think they had better options. I I don't I don't know that they I don't think they chose the best options, but it's not my place to judge them.

[00:41:00]>> What better opt What part of Lot's story do you think What are you talking about?

[00:41:06]>> Okay. Well, in so in Lot's story, Lot got distracted, wasn't focused on God.

[00:41:14]and then had to be rescued.

[00:41:17]And then um how should I say he caused himself by um partaking in certain liquids that caused his mind not to be all there. And then uh the the daughters decided to do something during that time. So it was it was all of them making certain decisions. That's what I'm saying. I mean, he was basically out of the equation at that moment cuz he was partaking in certain liquids.

[00:41:58]>> Is that is that the only thing in Lot's story that you think that we would be asking you about?

[00:42:12]I mean, well, you're talking about after the whole Sodom and Gomorrah thing, right?

[00:42:18]>> I'm asking in Lot's story, uh, pertaining to Lot's daughters, is that the only thing that you think that we will be asking you about in the story of Lot and his daughters?

[00:42:31]Yeah, but I already discussed how it happened though. The stuff that happened after they all made decisions and those decisions resulted in that equation and that equation turned into a nation.

[00:42:43]>> So there but there's nothing else in that story that concerns you.

[00:42:49]>> There's a lot in that story that concerns me.

[00:42:51]>> What else?

[00:42:54]What else in that story?

[00:42:55]>> I mean, had they focused on God, it would have been better.

[00:42:59]What would have been better?

[00:43:03]>> Well, hopefully well, maybe Lot wouldn't have been in that situation where he was in that city to begin with.

[00:43:10]>> Telepathically ask your God for some big boy words so you can speak directly to what Thinker is asking you because you know what you're avoiding right now. And I think you're doing so intentionally and that's so dishonest.

[00:43:24]I'm saying even the little things we find ourselves in are because of decisions that we make.

[00:43:30]>> What?

[00:43:32]>> What? What is it that you're calling little? What are you calling little?

[00:43:36]>> Well, first of all, to be in that city to begin with. I think if Lot was more aware, Lot would have been aware that God was unpleased that with that city to begin with.

[00:43:47]>> Your God was mad because your God wanted Lot in that city. But what what we're talking about right now pertains to Lot's daughters.

[00:44:00]>> But >> why can't you speak to that directly?

[00:44:03]God provides >> the daughters made certain decisions without going to God. Did did the daughters um make the decision for their father to offer them up to be raped?

[00:44:20]Raped and abused.

[00:44:24]>> That that was also awful. And I don't think Lot went to God about that.

[00:44:33]>> How would you know?

[00:44:34]>> And no, that was Lot's decision.

[00:44:36]>> How would you know that?

[00:44:38]>> What?

[00:44:39]>> How would you know that that was Lot's decision?

[00:44:43]Because wasn't it wasn't that decision made for the protection of your God's chosen vessels or whatever they were called.

[00:44:52]>> Okay. So in the Old Testament when somebody prays it will usually say like that person inquired of the Lord and the Lord spoke to them and said you know whatever and I don't see any Jimmy >> Fwell that's happening right now. Why are you talking like that?

[00:45:07]>> That's your ten commandment voice.

[00:45:09]>> I know it.

[00:45:13]Well, anyway, that's usually how it goes. It doesn't imply that he was praying. That's my point. It doesn't imply that he prayed before.

[00:45:21]>> Why didn't your God just intervene and say, "Nope, do not offer those girls up for anything like that. That is not okay. That is that is harmful. That's disrespectful. You don't do that to your daughters." I think that would have been a very clear way to say that your God was not pleased with what Lot did. But for you to just infer that he didn't go to God without any sort of scriptural scriptural evidence that he didn't or whose plan this was, that's just your assertion.

[00:45:58]Well, that's why I implied this is like a game in which in Jeremiah 18, he he describes reality like wet clay in that the way we interact with God and the way we interact with circumstances and stuff determines what that wet clay gets shaped into.

[00:46:17]>> So, what what did Lot's daughters do for their wet clay to be shaped into a father that would offer them up to be raped?

[00:46:34]Well, so we we don't always decide the circumstance. We decide how we react to those circumstances, right?

[00:46:43]That that's what I think. We're we're all dealing with circumstances that maybe we didn't um choose.

[00:46:57]Lot chose to offer his daughters to be raped.

[00:47:01]>> That was his choice.

[00:47:05]>> Yes, that was Lot's.

[00:47:08]And that's that's what I'm saying. I I wish that Lot had been praying.

[00:47:16]>> What does Lot praying have to do with what he the with the decision that he made? I am so confused.

[00:47:22]>> I mean, didn't he have two whole angels?

[00:47:25]>> Yes.

[00:47:28]>> I mean, the God was in town visiting Abraham. What do you mean that you wish I had been praying?

[00:47:37]The God was he literally sent two angels to rescue Lot.

[00:47:45]>> Yeah. But my point is that's because Abraham had a great relationship and was praying to God that God sent rescuers through Abraham.

[00:47:53]>> It it doesn't matter. Your God was your God's angels was there with Lot.

[00:48:01]>> They saw Lot throw his daughters out and say, "Here, take my daughters." But but don't do anything to these men.

[00:48:12]Like literally they the angels of your God sat and watched Lot protect powerful men with his young daughters. And then y'all want us to believe that these same daughters who a couple of verses before who had no power whatsoever to say, "No, daddy. I'm not I'm not doing that. I'm not letting you violate my body like that."

[00:48:47]These same daughters a couple of verses later got him drunk and raped him.

[00:49:00]How they go from not have how did they go from not having a voice from not having power to uh having all of a sudden having uh power and um willingness to rape their own father.

[00:49:26]power dynamic changes. How?

[00:49:29]>> Huh?

[00:49:29]>> My point my point is the Bible is very uh about how it goes about details. Like sometimes it doesn't describe daughters existing. That doesn't mean that daughters weren't there. It's just that the Bible doesn't include certain things sometimes like the So what I'm saying is just because things aren't being described doesn't mean that they weren't happening.

[00:49:48]>> This was >> No, this was an edit. What >> this was described they they saw their mo their mother turned into I don't know a box of Mortons and then they had to flee the city and they were offered up by their father to be raped and then all of a sudden yeah now daddy's drunk let's let us get pregnant. That doesn't make sense.

[00:50:11]That was explicitly stated. You don't have to infer that.

[00:50:17]I admit those details, but what I'm saying is I don't know that we got the whole movie of what happened. I think we got a edit of what happened.

[00:50:26]>> We got all the things.

[00:50:28]>> Yeah.

[00:50:31]>> The highlight reel included a man offering his daughters to be raped to protect the butts of two angels. And then they turn and then the the they instead of them getting raped, they turn around and raped him.

[00:50:48]That's the edit.

[00:50:54]Maybe that's that feminine love.

[00:51:00]>> Like this is this is this is a strong case of a lack of critical thinking here.

[00:51:06]>> Absolutely. and and the excuses just listen to yourself. The excuses >> or the uh justification >> um that you are willing to make or the the gaps that you are willing to fill is exactly what creates the culture that victim blames children whose fathers impregnate them.

[00:51:34]Oh, you shouldn't have been you were fast.

[00:51:37]You shouldn't have had that on.

[00:51:42]You should have said something.

[00:51:44]And then like uh the God was with you BS like this creates that culture. Those of you that cannot even say, "Wait a minute. You You want me to believe that these girls who just a few u um weeks ago, had no power, their father offered them up to be raped to protect men of power, much like uh kids that get uh trafficked?

[00:52:25]And then you want me to believe that a few weeks later they all of a sudden found power to rape the same man of power who is their father who was going to sell them out to a whole town of men.

[00:52:46]LIKE Y'ALL DON'T Y'ALL DON'T ASK those type of questions. Y'all don't say wait this doesn't make sense. And then y'all don't go as far as saying, "Wait, this looks like what we are seeing in society today.

[00:53:00]Why does this look alike?"

[00:53:04]And that's why like the the the question that you posed at the beginning of the importance of asking questions, right?

[00:53:12]Like we you all want us to believe that the people in this book were real. You want us to believe that these stories actually occurred. If we are to do that then we have to look at this through the lens of being a human being. We have to look at this through the lens of being a daughter of being a woman. And when we do that, it raises a whole lot of questions because if you are telling me that two women, two girls who were offered up by their own father whose sole job should be to protect them, they were offered up to be raped and their idea, their idea as a solution to the predicament that they were in is, "Oh, let's get our father drunk and have sex with him."

[00:53:52]That does not make any logical sense. It just doesn't. I think even even that concept of pulling in the you know the drinking I feel like that's a way of plausible deniability. Oh, it wasn't really his fault he was impaired or there was a reason. It completely skirts accountability and you have to put all logic and rationality to a to the side.

[00:54:14]Everything that we know about human psychology has to go away for this to make any and it even doesn't even make any sense at that point. But for us to believe it, I I just don't know why you all don't ask these questions.

[00:54:29]Well, I mean, when I when I read these stories, I I think of what what could have what were the options? What could they have done better? You know, they weren't praying. They weren't trusting in God. It's it's all about lessons.

[00:54:41]>> You don't ask what your God could have done differently.

[00:54:45]You don't ask what situation your God could have prevented if he simply just stopped harmful things from happening to humans.

[00:54:53]Why is the responsibility on them? Why is the expectation for the flawed humans to do something differently, not your God to act differently?

[00:55:03]>> That is an excellent question because there is a New Testament book, it might be James, where it says that if you have, it's basically implying that if you have the power to do something, the power to help that you should do it. But and that that's why it's such an excellent question because I don't believe that God is a hypocrite. The only thing I can think of is that earth is a type of Olympics game where people can show demonstrate extraordinary feats of virtues and get extra rewards for it.

[00:55:42]And we're we're all learning lessons as well. But yeah, >> what does that have to do with your God's ability to do something? Do you think your God is all powerful?

[00:55:53]>> Yes.

[00:55:55]>> So, the scripture that you just referenced about having the ability to do something to help and being compelled to do so does not apply to your God for some reason. Why is that?

[00:56:06]>> Can you repeat what you just said, please? If your God has the ability to do whatever he wants to do, so he can help whoever he wants to help. Correct.

[00:56:18]>> Right.

[00:56:19]>> Okay. He doesn't.

[00:56:21]Correct.

[00:56:26]>> Yes, I understand what you're saying.

[00:56:28]Please continue.

[00:56:29]>> So why would So why would your God have a requirement for flawed and limited humans to do the thing that he does not do?

[00:56:46]That is that is a good question. The only thing I can think of is that the God of gods was once in a scenario like us and then is therefore uh we're going through a similar scenario through what God once did. kind of like how a drill instructor trains uh soldiers. It's not like the drill instructor doesn't know what it's like to be trained by a drill instructor. Is that they're they're doing their best to train the soldiers to be mature kind of thing. Like a drill instructor.

[00:57:21]>> How does that an answer to the question I just asked you?

[00:57:25]>> Because a drill instructor isn't a hypocrite, right? Because the drill instructor went through boot camp themselves. So therefore, they're not a hypocrite when they, you know, train soldiers in boot camp, right? They're not hypocrites when they do that.

[00:57:38]>> Why would they be a hypocrite when they're training someone to do something that they have already done?

[00:57:44]>> Well, the only reason they're not hypocrites is because they went through it. If they had not gone through boot camp themselves, and they probably would be hypocrites, right?

[00:57:51]>> Has your God been offered up to be raped?

[00:57:55]When did he go through that?

[00:58:01]I don't I don't know all the stuff that Jesus went through honest.

[00:58:05]>> You know what?

[00:58:07]>> I don't I don't know all the stuff that Jesus went through. But it implies that >> in the book of Hebrews it implies that Jesus was uh gone through all the suffering that humans go through and then therefore is capable of true human empathy.

[00:58:23]>> Jesus I can guarantee you Jesus never had endometriosis.

[00:58:27]I know children in foster care that have been through more than Jesus ever went through. That that's just simply not true.

[00:58:34]There are people in my family that have endured more than Jesus ever will endure will will have endured. No, that's just not true. Just because some things written in a book does not make it true.

[00:58:45]Jesus got pawned for a weekend and came back.

[00:58:50]I I don't know where you're getting this from. And that still has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that your God has the power to stop horrendous things from happening and he does not.

[00:58:59]Yet he expects his flawed and limited humans to do that. That you've got to make that make sense to me.

[00:59:07]>> Well, I mean, we prune plants so that they'll grow better, right? But that that might be like an extremely um I don't know how that feels for the plant, but it's it's for the best of the plant, right? When we strategically prune plants they'll grow better in the long run.

[00:59:26]>> Are you think are you >> doesn't care about the plant?

[00:59:28]>> Are you comparing pruning plants with two daughters being offered up to be raped? Is that a pruning exercise in your mind?

[00:59:41]>> Well, there's the verse that says that God works all things together for good.

[00:59:45]So, either God is working all things together for good or God's not. You remember that that call we had the other day um with the apologizing for horrendous things like this is why this belief system is so dangerous.

[00:59:58]>> He literally just said that his God went through it went through all of this before and now he's just watching us.

[01:00:06]>> Mhm.

[01:00:08]>> Like he just makes up stuff on the fly.

[01:00:16]>> Why do you do that? God provides.

[01:00:20]>> Well, I don't think that God is a hypocrite. So, I have to figure out how.

[01:00:24]>> No, you have to make up.

[01:00:26]>> No, you have to invent for your God. You know, your God doesn't make sense. The fact that you do all of this creation, you have become your God's god.

[01:00:37]You have become the author of your God's story, which and you create a lot of confusion as well. even more confusion than the authors of this book.

[01:00:47]But the fact that you create and you fill in all of these gaps means that you've asked these same same questions that we've asked before and you've decided to rewrite your God story because you know that it doesn't make sense. You know he's hypocritical. You know he's dangerous, immoral.

[01:01:14]genocidal that you know that that's why you rewrite the narrative.

[01:01:23]I mean, you've basically turned all of human existence into some sort of Sims game. Like, you literally called it a game and it's not like humans are losing their lives, right, for these belief systems.

[01:01:39]There's not been a moment in recorded history where you did not have a human that believed in some god fighting a another human that believed in a different god. Like that's always been the case. At what point will you all realize the gods don't fight cuz they can't. Like they have to rely on you all to do for them.

[01:02:00]And in the meantime, we've got to listen to these ridiculous, I don't know, fairy tale-l like stories that you all tell yourselves about these horrendous things that this God of love did in a book. Like, to Thinker's point, you've got to know that it's problematic. Why are you lying to yourself like that?

[01:02:22]>> Because, well, it's it's Earth. I also have to look at Earth and try and figure out how Earth got this way. That's why there's a lot of complications. You have to figure that out.

[01:02:32]>> Well, I I want to figure it out.

[01:02:35]>> Yeah. It's like you It's like you think you are the God. Do you like Do you think that you're responsible for everything that's happened on earth and every human action on earth like you have the answer for it or something?

[01:02:50]>> I think it's a collaboration because Jesus said uh for the one who believes then all things all things are possible for the one who believes. That means that the theoretically this would just be a giant everybody collaborating reality together through believing and manifesting.

[01:03:06]>> So you're responsible.

[01:03:12]>> I would I would say semi-involved.

[01:03:17]>> Semi involved.

[01:03:21]>> Like what do you mean semi-involved?

[01:03:25]So well, so Jesus said that if you forgive anyone, then they'll be forgiven. Their sins will be forgiven.

[01:03:33]Which means that since I am a universalist Christian, I I believe in forgiving everybody. So I'll go into like a >> Yeah. Everybody. So that means that I'll go into like an alternate reality where everybody gets forgiveness. But there could be other alternate realities. I don't know because that that verse says, you know, if you forgive everybody's sins, then they'll be forgiven and if you don't forgive, then they won't be forgiven. So, I don't know if people that don't forgive are stuck get stuck in like alternate realities where there's like unforgiveness and like a vicious cycle kind of thing.

[01:04:09]>> Well, those of us who live in reality don't have to do that.

[01:04:14]You're just granting yourself permission to live in this makebelieve land in your head that no one else can inhabit except you. And when we that's it gets back to the question I asked you earlier about spiritual. In the spiritual world that you all talk about there are no rules.

[01:04:32]So you can make up this this world where God is a man and a woman and God is you know multiple people and he has he's a chicken. I don't know what he is but because there are no rules in the spiritual world but that's not the reality that we share and as long as you are giving yourself granting yourself license to do that you may not necessarily be a person who's going to use this freedom to enact harm upon other people because I don't know I guess your god is Elmo which I'm glad he is and I don't want him hurting people but there are others that do right and if you if you've given yourself permission to do that then they've granted themselves the permission to do the same thing and that doesn't make any of this real. Why is that not important to you?

[01:05:21]>> What? What part?

[01:05:24]>> Reality.

[01:05:26]>> Reality is important to me.

[01:05:29]>> Then why do you leave it so frequently?

[01:05:33]>> It's it's about interpreting reality and how everything works and what's going on.

[01:05:39]Well, it's not going on. It's not going on like you're you're speaking about it, >> right? Like that's part of the problem.

[01:05:47]You're you're giving these explanations and the not even explanations, you're giving these responses to questions that we're asking you about this God. And to thinker's point, you're telling us what he wants, what he desires, what he feels, what he what he doesn't like. I can only do that for me because I am me.

[01:06:04]I can infer things about thinker based on how you know she and I are friends and things that I've noticed her facial expressions she doesn't like this she may like that but I can't say that with any degree of certainty I can only give you that information for me so if you are doing that for the god how are you not the god because you you've got to realize how convenient it is that every single one of you who speaks for this god can give us very specific information on what it likes and what it doesn't like and it aligns with what you like and what you don't like. Your God agrees with you politically. Your God agrees with you on all of the hot button issues. And wherever you are solidly rooted, that's where your God is, too.

[01:06:46]So, it does not seem as though you're following the God. It seems as though the God is following you. And it's followed you to some multiple alternative realities that none of us can have access to.

[01:06:57]>> You know what? And and he's also the one forgiving the God of his sins.

[01:07:02]>> Absolutely. and willing to die.

[01:07:07]>> He's forgiven >> sacrifice himself.

[01:07:10]>> Yeah. He's forgiven the God of sins that >> he likely would not forgive a human for.

[01:07:15]>> Mhm.

[01:07:16]>> Yeah. Oh, no. I don't know about God providing. He sounds like he would forgive anybody for anything.

[01:07:23]>> What you God provides?

[01:07:26]>> Yeah. I believe in unconditional mercy and unconditional forgiveness.

[01:07:30]>> You going to be an unconditional doormat.

[01:07:33]He going to be an unconditional ass problem.

[01:07:36]>> Like the I hope I Let me not say that. Like you're That's dangerous.

[01:07:47]>> Theory.

[01:07:50]>> What's What's wrong with unconditional mercy and unconditional forgiveness?

[01:07:54]>> What's wrong with unconditional mercy?

[01:07:56]Do you think why do you think a lot of believers the majority of believers say let me ask you a question before I ask this question and I I know that I've talked to you before but I can't remember. Do you still sin even though Jesus died for your sins?

[01:08:14]Do you still sin?

[01:08:20]>> I think it's possible to get to a point of not sinning as a human. You just straight forward.

[01:08:26]>> Do you still send straight forward? Yes or no?

[01:08:29]>> Yeah. I I don't think I don't think I'm at that 100% connection thing yet.

[01:08:34]>> Did I ask about your telephone call with y'all? Do you still see it? Yes or no?

[01:08:40]>> Yeah. I'm saying because because the 100% is not there yet. That it's not there yet. So, I'm saying >> so that means Yeah. You still see it.

[01:08:48]And and the the fact that those of you who believe right in this sacrifice and this plan of salvation, every time we talk to y'all, y'all still sin despite the fact y'all say that he died to free you from sin, right? And then you say, "Well, we're not perfect. I'm not all the way there with this connect with the connection yet. I'm a work in progress. We fall down and we get up." Like y'all have all of these excuses for why you aren't sin free because of grace and mercy. Be this unlimited grace and mercy that your God gives you. Every time you sin, mind you, Paul said where wherever there is sin, grace abounds, right? And then he's like, I we got to keep sinning against we got to keep sitting against the law.

[01:09:45]We going to get unlimited grace with this sacrifice.

[01:09:50]So y'all under this unlimited grace and there's no incentive for you to actually be better. So when you forgive people unlimitly for doing they just going to keep doing because you're going to keep forgiving them.

[01:10:09]There's no no punishment. Your Jesus gave you a black card to sin >> with no limit.

[01:10:18]>> Positive reinforcement there. There's actual rewards for doing really really good. That's why the whole thing is on a reward program that motivates the incentive program of positive reinforcement. Rewards. Just a reward system.

[01:10:31]>> Are you talking about heaven?

[01:10:34]>> No, there's earthly rewards too, David.

[01:10:36]>> What?

[01:10:38]Like Isaiah 55 says that if you listen to God, you go to God and listen to God, God will give you all the rewards that David got. That's Isaiah 55 1-5.

[01:10:48]>> That what rewards that David get a a a haram, a haram of wives, a kingdom, >> kingship, land, peace.

[01:10:58]>> When when do when are you going to get that? God provide in heaven.

[01:11:02]>> You get that on earth.

[01:11:06]When did God give you land? Um, God provides. Did he provide you land? He provided you with a deed.

[01:11:15]>> I'm I'm growing oregano. It's It's wonderful.

[01:11:25]>> You still got to grow it. Who planted your oregano? Um, God provide. This man said he growing oregano.

[01:11:35]I can't.

[01:11:38]>> You still have to harvest it, right? You still have to plant it. You still have to buy your seeds. You still have to water it. What is the God providing?

[01:11:48]>> Lots of good things. I'm very grateful for it.

[01:11:54]>> Yeah. I don't I don't know. Like I I I really don't know what could be going on in the mind of an adult who engages with ideas in the way that you do, right? And I'm not telling you you you don't have a right to do that. You can you think through things however you want to think to through them. But to say that unlimited forgiveness is a goal leaves absolutely no space for personal accountability. None. like none. Because if if I know that whatever I do, you're going to give me an opportunity to do it again, I have zero incentive to change.

[01:12:32]Zero desire or emphasis to be better.

[01:12:36]And when we talk about these real life issues, because to thinker's point, these concepts and these ideas are utilized in extremely harmful ways to actual human beings on a daily basis.

[01:12:49]Like we know people that have suffered at the hands of people who think the way that you do about this idea of immediate forgiveness. That's dangerous.

[01:13:00]So why is it that you feel as though?

[01:13:03]And then again the the the piece of of God providing. You're telling yourself that God provides while you're doing all the things to reap the the rewards of the things that you're working for.

[01:13:15]These are the questions that need to be asked. If God if you stop harvesting your oregano, if you stop watering your plant, are you saying to us that you believe that this God will do it for you?

[01:13:33]I mean, oregano is pretty tough. I haven't done the experiment like if I didn't take care of it, what would happen? But it's a really hardy plant.

[01:13:40]But as far as the harvesting, I mean, I I get I get what you >> about oregano. Do you think that that question was really about oregano?

[01:13:49]>> Well, okay. So, what I'm saying is there is the reap what you sew or karma. I mean, karma is a similar concept. So, if people know there are negative reinforcements and positive reinforcements, they'll still be motivated to behave well because they know that there's rewards that there's a spiritual, what would I say? spiritual watcher that's paying attention and keeping track of everything that's going to make sure that you get rewarded for good things. That's motivation to behave well and to behave better. So that's why we're motivated to grow over time.

[01:14:32]>> A spiritual watcher that watches what?

[01:14:35]Little girls get raped.

[01:14:38]>> Watches all of our thoughts.

[01:14:42]So when he sits and he watches harm come to marginalized people and vulnerable people, how are you saying that that's justifiable when he has the capacity to stop it?

[01:14:56]Would you stop it if you had the power?

[01:15:04]I think that Earth is a wild scenario and I I personally I'd want a much more peaceful realm to be honest if I had my own universe. It'd be it'd be very chill personally.

[01:15:14]>> Right. Can you can you answer the question that I asked you? Would you stop it if you had the power?

[01:15:21]>> Yeah.

[01:15:23]>> So why do you go serve a god that won't?

[01:15:31]I mean, my only thought is that perhaps this God of gods has been around for so long that this god is into like super controversial storytelling where like uses evil for good and all this complex controversial versions of good and it's very complicated.

[01:15:55]>> It's not like you're just making up right now. That that's as complicated as it gets for me.

[01:16:02]>> I mean, the Bible does say that God turns evil into good or uses evil for good.

[01:16:08]>> Yeah.

[01:16:09]>> Your It also says that a woman came from the rib of a man. And we know that's not true either. So just because your book says a thing, that does not mean that that thing is true. But that's not what I'm asking you. I asked you, why do you serve a God that won't do the very thing that you would if you had the power?

[01:16:31]Honestly, I'm still trying to figure out that aspect of God. That's a good question. I think about it a lot.

[01:16:43]You're still not answering the question that I asked you.

[01:16:47]Whatever answer that you come up with for why God allows whatever he allows is going to be your version of what you think a good God's reason would be that's still coming from your mind. But my question to you is why would you prostrate yourself to a God that has the ability to do the very thing that you would do in terms of helping other people and reducing harm and he doesn't?

[01:17:12]How is that God deserving of your worship?

[01:17:19]My my point is this. Imagine you like a movie series where the director does a lot of controversial stuff with the scenes, but like the storytelling is like amazing and you feel in your heart that the the director is a genius and that's why you um going along with the director. So, it's like it's like a director that's I'm trying to understand where they're coming from, but it's it's a lot like that where it's a director that's like a super genius and you're trying to figure them out, but you know that they have unconditional love. They're doing it for everybody's highest good. And honestly, it's a lot like a drill instructor.

[01:17:57]>> Unconditional love where?

[01:17:59]>> What?

[01:18:00]>> But I don't see how you you don't know your god. You don't know that that's what you believe, right? that that would be different for a a director that you you know and can talk to and can see have sat down with, right? Has a track record. You are completely ignoring your God's track record.

[01:18:24]And you're saying you're what you're saying is I've heard that it's for the greater good. I've heard that he's a good guy. Let me let me see how this plays out. And you're taking a risk. You're gambling with your life. You're gambling with other people's lives on Earth. You're gambling with our time. Cuz people in YouTube mad at you right now because you took up the whole >> Well, I'm I'm saying through prayer you can get to know God and have conversations and get to know God that way.

[01:19:02]A conversation is >> conversation is >> like we're having a conversation right now. You notice how I'm not speaking for you and you're not speaking for me.

[01:19:13]>> That's what prayer is like where you have you talk to God. God talks to you.

[01:19:16]That's what prayer is supposed to be.

[01:19:20]>> But you never you never explained to me.

[01:19:21]How do you know you're not talking to yourself? How did you rule that out?

[01:19:30]Well, um, God likes to flex. So, God causes things to happen in physical objective reality that is miraculous usually.

[01:19:43]>> What?

[01:19:45]>> What?

[01:19:46]>> Like what?

[01:19:49]>> Causing things to happen.

[01:19:52]>> Like what? Give me an example of something that God caused to happen.

[01:20:04]I mean, my my favorite is the about the figs. When I prayed for figs, I know I told this story a long time ago.

[01:20:11]>> What is it with you and produce?

[01:20:15]>> I really I like plants a lot.

[01:20:18]>> Oh my goodness.

[01:20:20]>> You prayed Okay. You prayed for the figs and your God walked you over to a neighbor's house and your neighbor had a fig tree in the backyard.

[01:20:32]>> I didn't know the fig tree was there.

[01:20:40]>> How does your God factor into this equation though?

[01:20:44]>> Because I specifically prayed for figs either that day or the day before.

[01:20:49]Something like that.

[01:20:53]Did you pray for me?

[01:20:57]>> No, not at that time.

[01:21:00]>> Why are you praying for fruit when all you got?

[01:21:06]>> I'm Why are you praying for fruit?

[01:21:09]>> Well, for everything ELSE WHEN ALL YOU GOT TO do is go to a Trader Joe's.

[01:21:15]>> Kroger is down the street, man. Like, literally, >> it wasn't available in my area. Yeah, I didn't see fresh figs anywhere.

[01:21:22]>> They were in your neighbor's backyard.

[01:21:26]>> I didn't know that I had figs in the area.

[01:21:30]>> This is what I'm talking about. Like supernatural fruit. Like when all like all you had to do was Google figs in my area. LIKE I'M TRYING WHY ARE YOU PRAYING FOR FRUIT?

[01:21:46]>> WELL, I hadn't tried it yet. I was curious.

[01:21:51]Is that the most your god can do? Like is that is that the limit of your god's ability? Like I don't know figs and oregano. Like is that it?

[01:22:05]>> I mean look we all want better testimonies I feel like but right now that's that's that's one of the highest tier testimonies that I currently have access to. Do I want higher testimonies than that? Yes. But I still count it as a flex. a god flex.

[01:22:19]>> The most your god did for you was give gave you a fig.

[01:22:26]You are you holding on for a fig?

[01:22:31]>> Well, altogether they they probably gave me like uh 30 figs.

[01:22:37]>> Your neighbor gave you 30 figs.

[01:22:43]>> Yeah. the like the first time I had like a conversation with them, you know, and about the the landscape in the the front yard, but then they were like, "Oh, by the way, we got a fig tree in our backyard." And I was like, "Oh, awesome." They were like, "Would you like some figs?" And then they gave me like 15 the first time, you know, >> and that's that's that's your your god's like that's the gold star that your god fig >> so far. That's that's the that's the best.

[01:23:15]>> Like world hunger, right? All that aside, God provides. Got figs.

[01:23:23]>> Listen, I pray for a lot of things.

[01:23:24]There's a whole bucket list of things.

[01:23:26]Okay. But that that one is checked off, right?

[01:23:30]>> A bucket of figs.

[01:23:32]>> Yeah. Well, well, I want God to help everybody else, too.

[01:23:37]I want all the problems to be solved.

[01:23:39]So, the one that he chose to solve was your lack of figs and that's what kept you locked in.

[01:23:48]>> That was a great day.

[01:23:50]>> Apparently.

[01:23:53]Apparently.

[01:23:55]I I just don't I don't I don't understand like it if if I had a a connection with someone with unlimited financial resources and that person gave me a quarter, I don't think I would be very impressed, right? Because I I mean to thinker's point, you can go down a road to Kroger and get a fig. Um you can go around the corner to Trader Joe's and get some oregano.

[01:24:22]the the threshold for being impressed is extremely low when it comes to believers in this God. So much so that you have to find your God's fingerprint. Always in reverse. You You can never find it moving forward. It's always got to be behind you and you've got to find places to put to put it. I I just think that's ridiculous for something that's all powerful.

[01:24:47]>> I I think there's better miracles over time. So, I'm I'm hoping for a better testimony than that soon.

[01:24:54]>> What you want an orange?

[01:24:55]>> What you want?

[01:24:58]>> I was trying to understand.

[01:25:04]>> Zucchini. What are we going to ask for now?

[01:25:07]>> Listen. Listen. I got to be grateful for whatever the good Lord is willing to share.

[01:25:13]>> I guess I'll take all the good stuff. All the good stuff.

[01:25:19]Well, we have got to move on now. Um, thank you so much for calling in. Fe, did you have anything else you want to say to >> No, I think I'm good.

[01:25:34]>> Thank you for calling in. Okay.

[01:25:37]>> Thanks for having me. Good to communicate with you all.

[01:25:40]>> Have a good one.

[01:25:41]>> Have a good one.