45 Cal Lee Minié Ball Test

Added: 2026-05-08

[00:00:04]So, one of the problems that we ran into when we started experimenting with low-density powders like 1.55 powder. And if you're new here, the commercial powders are pressed to a density of about 1.75.

[00:00:20]This stuff being 1.55 g per cubic centimeter, uh would be historically accurate for rifle muskets in the 1850s and '60s. That's what that density was used for.

[00:00:35]Either way, what we experienced was really wide extreme spreads across the board in everything that we tried it in, both pistol and long gun. After doing several test, we came to find that it was pretty much all my fault.

[00:00:54]From inconsistent seating pressure. Now, I have heard from people for years about how you really shouldn't bounce your ram rod to make sure the ball is completely seated and all of that because you're going to get uneven pressure, uh you're going to deform the face of the ball, and all that other stuff. And uh well, turns out you guys were right.

[00:01:17]I repent. Again, in everything we've tried this powder in, the 155 density, whether it's one, two, or three F, pistol, revolver, whatever, long rifle, musket, it had really wide spreads.

[00:01:33]The reason for that, again, being my fault, is since the powder is pressed to a density of 155, which does not take a lot of pressure, by the way, those individual granules are rather fragile.

[00:01:51]And when you are hammering your ball down onto the powder with a patch, it will break up those granules into smaller granules and dust, giving you really wide spreads.

[00:02:05]We saw spreads, I think, were over 200 ft per second uh on a couple of these tests.

[00:02:12]The 1F was a little bit better, the 3F was worse, but again, unacceptable performance.

[00:02:18]At least unacceptable for us.

[00:02:21]Now, the interesting thing about this is once I stopped bouncing the ram rod and seating it all nice and gently, consistently, the extreme spread problem completely disappeared in everything that we have tested this in, pistol, revolver, long rifle, musket, everything, except my.45 caliber Southern Mountain Rifle.

[00:02:45]It still was blowing patches and destroying it and having really bad wide spreads, even when seating it as consistent and gently as I possibly could.

[00:02:57]So, in order to fix that, we ended up using a lubed fiber wad on top of the powder. You can use an over powder patch. You could even use a lubed felt wad for your cap and ball revolver. Even that would work. Anything over the powder to protect that patch will tune that up and pretty much eliminate that problem.

[00:03:21]But, just to make sure that we weren't having a quality control issue with our powder, we decided to try this test here, which is 50 grains of 1F balsa at a density of 1.55 with a.450 mini ball in the.45 caliber Southern Mountain Rifle.

[00:03:45]So, our initial test is with 50 grains.

[00:03:47]Now, this is a Lee single cavity mini ball mold or expanding projectile, whatever you'd like to call it, mini ball style, perhaps.

[00:03:57]They come out right at.450 and they weigh just shy of 250 grains. I think 248 grains is what they come out at.

[00:04:05]And they fit the bore of this rifle really, really nice. It's right about 1,000 undersized, which helps considerably. So, here it is with 50 grains.

[00:04:18]So, what I want to see is if having a heavier projectile doesn't even out the velocity spreads.

[00:04:30]Because what it seems to us, but it looks like from here, is this thing does not like low density, whether it's one, two, or three F.

[00:04:39]So, here it goes, nothing.

[00:04:45]And we're priming with the 1F balsa as well. Okay, top right. Top right.

[00:04:50]>> Okay.

[00:04:54]Top right, here we go.

[00:05:02]Wow. 1532.

[00:05:05]Way off to the left.

[00:05:10]1528.

[00:05:12]Dude, I think you put that right next to the uh Boy, that barked really good.

[00:05:16]Man, this thing has never kicked me like that.

[00:05:22]It's fighting back.

[00:05:23]>> little put out.

[00:05:24]>> It's fighting It's fighting back after all the abuse you put her through.

[00:05:27]>> Well, it's earned it. I backed the camera back because when I saw you miss that first on the fouling shot, and it was way off to the left, it's like, these things might spray a freaking foot group, so I'm just going to back off.

[00:05:41]>> Good idea.

[00:05:43]So, there's like three cards in frame right there, so.

[00:05:46]>> That's good. I can always zoom in, you know.

[00:05:48]>> Yep.

[00:05:50]Okay, here is shot number three.

[00:06:04]Yeah.

[00:06:06]1532.

[00:06:09]Dang, Derek.

[00:06:11]We've got 4.5 ft per second spreads.

[00:06:16]Okay. Let me try one more.

[00:06:22]1514.

[00:06:25]So, yeah, Derek, it has 17.6 ft per second spreads, man.

[00:06:28]>> Yeah, that's way better.

[00:06:32]Yeah, man, it the fouling's nice and soft. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it especially using a mini ball, man, I you'd be able to put a bunch of rounds through that.

[00:06:50]Yeah.

[00:06:54]Yeah, not not not not killer, but not horrible. Yeah, not too bad.

[00:06:59]>> But, the fouling's nice and soft. One of the things I've noticed about the lower density powders, they seem to have overall softer fouling. Yeah, so that averaged 1526 with a 17 ft per second spread. This same powder at this same charge with a patched round ball has 180 ft per second spread. Same powder, same firearm. With a max of 2,000.

[00:07:23]Mm.

[00:07:24]We had a shot.

[00:07:24]>> Did it Did Was the one No, that was 3F.

[00:07:27]Oh, I'm sorry, you >> 1F.

[00:07:28]>> Yeah.

[00:07:30]That had a max of like 19 something.

[00:07:32]>> let's go look.

[00:07:33]>> They're all over the place, but they're not keyholing. Uh yeah, that's a good point. So, we were happy to see that our powder isn't the issue.

[00:07:43]With 50 grains of 1F 155 balsa and a.450 mini ball, we had an average of 1526 with a max spread of 17.6, which we thought was more than acceptable. Again, our main goal was to see what the spread would be.

[00:08:02]Now, obviously, the group is uh pretty horrible. That's easily a 1-ft group, and not to mention it hits about 8 in to the left, which was uh you know, interesting.

[00:08:13]None of those shots keyholed, which we thought was a good sign. And it wasn't until later when we thought, you know, I think we should revisit that.

[00:08:23]So, we did. Now, when we tested the mini balls, mini style expanding projectile, whatever you'd like to call it, we noticed that uh they were going moving really fast. It was 1,500 and change, right? Yeah.

[00:08:36]>> And uh sprayed them pretty much all over the target, but they were not keyholing, and the velocity spread was totally acceptable. Pretty good, in fact.

[00:08:46]But, we thought we quit a little early on that. So, we're going to lower the charge just to see if we can't get it to tighten up a little bit. Maybe it might even shoot halfway respectable. So, we're going to start with 40 grains of 1F balsa at 155, which is 1.55 g per cubic centimeter, if anybody cares. Here's our projectile.

[00:09:11]These are sized at.450.

[00:09:16]Look how nice they fit.

[00:09:19]Look at that. Isn't that nice? That's nice right there. That's real nice.

[00:09:25]And since we've learned our lesson as far as how much pressure it takes to seat things, that's it, right there.

[00:09:32]You don't need to hammer it. Are you sure?

[00:09:35]Well, You sure you don't want to TRY IT AGAIN?

[00:09:38]>> WHY CHANGE it now, right?

[00:09:40]You know, been doing it like that for 100 years, why why change it?

[00:09:46]All right, so we've lowered our charge to 40 grains, right? Yep.

[00:09:51]Now, we'll see what we get. Now, uh I'm aiming at the Top left.

[00:09:54]>> Top left. All right, so here's shot number one with 40-grains of 1 F155 with our 450 minie ball.

[00:10:07]>> [snorts] >> 1235. Yeah, that's still moving too fast. Yeah, 1235 that's still way too fast.

[00:10:19]>> Yeah.

[00:10:21]Should be like, you know, 950 or 1000.

[00:10:24]You drop it down >> another 10? Yes. Cool. Okay.

[00:10:29]So, here's 30-grains.

[00:10:40]1094 Okay.

[00:10:46]I'm going to drop it 5-grains, okay?

[00:10:49]Okay.

[00:10:50]Cuz, man, that That's still moving pretty fast. I'm kind of impressed.

[00:10:55]Okay.

[00:10:56]So, this is 25-grains of 1 F.

[00:11:08]1015 There we go, that's better.

[00:11:12]You put it on the card.

[00:11:15]Really? Yeah, you got it on the card.

[00:11:19]Shot number two with 25-grains of 1 F and a minie ball.

[00:11:31]Again, on the card. 1029 Derek, is this Is this Is this working?

[00:11:40]I think it is. Is this working? I think it is. You might want to bring it down another 5-grains. Really?

[00:11:45]Yeah, I would.

[00:11:49]Yeah, when we tried that last time with 50-grains and the with 15 50 or something it's just like It's like no wonder it's spraying a, you know, a 12-in group.

[00:12:00]>> Yeah, and and we just were like, "Oh, okay. Well, see the powder's okay." It's like, "Hey, wait a minute. Lower the charge and and try that again."

[00:12:06]>> Yeah.

[00:12:08]Okay, shot number three with 25-grains.

[00:12:22]Oh.

[00:12:24]1007 Just at the bottom right corner of the card.

[00:12:29]So, we're averaging, Derek, with this 1017 with a 22-ft per second spread.

[00:12:35]That's great.

[00:12:37]Drop it down another 5-grains. Can Can I Can we go up and look? I'd like to look.

[00:12:41]>> Yeah, sure.

[00:12:44]This was our first, second So, those are the last three right there?

[00:12:50]>> fifth No kidding. Yeah.

[00:12:52]Really? Yeah, no [ __ ] Okay, let me lower it 5 more grains and we'll try it We'll try the last three, okay?

[00:12:58]>> Sounds good. So, this is 20-grains of 1 F low-density balsa cuz it seems to be going maybe not super bitching, but Better. It's definitely working.

[00:13:16]How's the bore feel?

[00:13:17]Uh, not bad.

[00:13:19]I I mean, I'm still getting it down, no problem.

[00:13:21]>> Good.

[00:13:23]But, again, you know, that powder granulation size and density is made for expanding projectiles like that.

[00:13:31]>> Mhm.

[00:13:32]Okay.

[00:13:35]The center, right? Yes, sir.

[00:13:37]>> This is a whopping 20-grains of powder.

[00:13:41]I think I got uh three shots total. So, here's number one.

[00:13:55]896 In line, but low. How low?

[00:14:02]4 in inches Huh?

[00:14:04]It's just above the bottom card.

[00:14:07]Oh, that low. Okay.

[00:14:08]>> low. All right.

[00:14:12]That is a pretty puny charge, you know.

[00:14:14]>> Yeah, man, we know how it goes with these.

[00:14:20]It's like, "Oh, yeah, 5-grain increments are just too radical. You need to do like 1-grain increments."

[00:14:26]>> I've heard people say that. I heard Keith say that. Yeah. I thought it made pretty good sense.

[00:14:32]When you're dealing with minie balls, a 5-grain incremental change is way too much.

[00:14:45]Man, you are dead in line, too.

[00:14:51]Okay, here's shot number two.

[00:15:02]Whoa.

[00:15:03]892 Well, that one's about uh inch to the left. Did that hit in a way different spot?

[00:15:13]No, it hit right next to the first shot.

[00:15:16]>> Okay, good. Good. So, looks like the group will be okay, but it's about 4 in lower than it should be.

[00:15:25]>> Are you still aiming at the top of the card?

[00:15:27]>> I'm aiming at the top of the top of Top right? the top of the top card.

[00:15:31]Okay.

[00:15:34]Yeah, it'll probably be best at like 24.2 grains or something. If you want, we could go back up to 25 or Oh, wait, we don't Oh, damn it.

[00:15:52]>> Yeah, pre-weigh some 24-grain or some 23-grain charges, it'll probably work great.

[00:15:58]>> Not Not that I think I'm going to switch to a minie ball in this, but I mean, proof of concept. You You're right, exactly.

[00:16:05]Okay.

[00:16:07]Shot number three the last one. Make it a good one.

[00:16:24]Oh, just under it.

[00:16:26]886 Yeah, man.

[00:16:30]That has a 10-ft per second spread. Get out.

[00:16:33]>> Yeah, so average of 891 with a max spread of 10.1.

[00:16:39]That's killer. That's pretty [ __ ] bitching.

[00:16:42]I don't know about how it shoots. That That could work. That could be made to work. Yeah. I bet you.

[00:16:49]And now it's not Now it's not hitting way to the left, it's just hitting way low. Yeah, and that kind of makes sense for a 200-something grain minie ball with a 20-grain charge.

[00:17:01]>> Right, with a 20-grain charge if it's moving a whopping, you know, 900 ft per second, 890.

[00:17:07]What was it with 25? 1050 or something?

[00:17:11]Just a little over 10. Yeah.

[00:17:13]But, uh That That could be made to work.

[00:17:20]>> Mhm. It could be made to work.

[00:17:23]But, uh I think one of the biggest things that I've learned about rifle muskets over the last uh probably year is uh you knew You really need to have a projectile that's sized really close to the bore. Like like 1 to 2000 under, no more. Yeah. And if you have anything more than that, the odds of it being a mess are greatly increased.

[00:17:48]How many shots do we got through that?

[00:17:51]Uh nine? Eight? Nine?

[00:17:53]>> Five, six, seven Yeah, eight or nine.

[00:17:57]>> Well, let's go look, huh? Yeah.

[00:17:59]Yep, that's them. That's them.

[00:18:01]So, the first one was the low one.

[00:18:04]Here?

[00:18:05]No, to the right.

[00:18:06]Here?

[00:18:07]Yeah, low in line. The second was the one to the left. And the third was the one to the top.

[00:18:13]Okay.

[00:18:14]Yeah, I'm aiming right there. That's where I'm putting it, right there.

[00:18:18]Well, that right there is a considerably better group than uh than the, you know, 12-in group it had at 50.

[00:18:28]>> That's not even terrible.

[00:18:30]I bet if you upped it went up one grain incremental charges, it'd tighten up at 23 or something, you know.

[00:18:38]>> Yeah, probably.

[00:18:39]That totally could work. Yeah, 100%.

[00:18:43]>> could work.

[00:18:44]>> it seemed like it was actually shooting better with the 25-grain Yeah.

[00:18:49]>> right there after you moved your sight picture to the top right.

[00:18:53]So, probably like 24-grains >> 24 23.5 or something >> Yeah.

[00:18:57]>> [laughter] >> We thought this was pretty interesting.

[00:19:01]I have heard people say forever that up you you can't shoot colonials in something that has that slow of a twist.

[00:19:10]You know, it's got to be 1 in 48 in order to shoot those colonials cuz otherwise it's not going to stabilize them.

[00:19:17]Well, that kind of punches a big hole in that theory, I think. Now, again, this technology here is 170-something years old now being under-sized hollow-based projectile that's going to expand as it is fired and grip the rifling.

[00:19:36]My 45 does not have progressive depth rifling like a rifle musket does like my Richmond or my 42. I wish I had more rounds. The only reason why I quit is I was just out of projectiles. I bet we could have dialed this in much better.

[00:19:53]With 25 grains, we had an average of 1,017 with a max spread of 22 and looked pretty promising. I had a couple on those cards that can't be more than a 3-in group.

[00:20:07]And same thing with 20 grains of 1F ball. So, we had an average of 891 with a max spread of 10.1 and that, I think, had a little bit better group, but it hit about 6-in low.

[00:20:23]I bet this would shoot really good somewhere between 20 and 25 and I would have liked to dial it in further. I just ran out of projectiles. I think the reason why the 45 doesn't really dig lower density powders is it's a relatively smaller bore for what the 155 powder was developed for, being 57 and up, basically. Rifle muskets, very heavy projectiles as well, 450 grain and up.

[00:20:56]The patched round ball 440 ball that I use for my 45 weighs 128 grains. So, I think being relatively small bore, light projectile just has a really fast hot flame front and blows those patches.

[00:21:11]But, I think this shows potential with the mini ball deal. I I'm going to make some more of those and see how it goes. I bet I could get that to tighten up. Now, we also tried this same test with the 1F mix and 3F mix, which was all uh mid-grade powder that we remilled and pressed to 155 and we basically got the same results just with a little lower velocity. Actually, in some cases, it was a little higher, but there's not really a lot of point in me showing you all of that. It's kind of boring cuz it's just us doing about a hour's worth of chronograph work and cleaning the rifle and then doing it again. I don't think it's worth your guys' time. You can just take my word for it. Or, as always, you could test it yourself.

[00:21:59]So, as usual, folks, if you thought this video didn't suck, do me a favor and hit the like button, consider subscribing, and if you did think it sucked, go make your own damn video.