Finding the Future of Broadway | Andy Sandberg On the Economics of Theater | Breaking Down the Biz

Hinzugefügt: 2026-05-26

[00:00:01][music] >> Hey everyone, it's Seth Shackner from Breaking Down the Biz, your host in Los Angeles today. This is a podcast that breaks down and simplifies big issues in media, music, entertainment, and technology. And we've got a um a super interesting uh guest today and a really interesting episode looking at Broadway and certain aspects of it that I don't know if all the audience has ever thought about. So um I've got here Andy Sandberg dialing in from the from the East Coast. Andy, welcome. It's so great to have you. Thank you. Thanks for having me on. Yeah, and so we'll get a chance to go through your background.

[00:00:41]It's it's really awesome. Um but I thought we could kind of start on maybe some something that's kind of topical. I mean, you know, I think the Tony Awards were just announced actually today and you've got some pretty familiar properties in there that looks like they germinated or birthed in in places that are very close to you. Yeah, is that fair? Yeah, no, I'm I'm uh artistic director and CEO at the Hermitage Artist Retreat among various other hats and I am incredibly proud of Liberation. Bess Wohl is an amazing writer, an amazing person, and she wrote a lot of that play right here on our beach. So in the past oh, 20 hours it won the Pulitzer Prize and now a frontrunner is a Tony Award nominee, multiple Tony Award nominee, and we're keeping our fingers crossed for best play. There's a lot of other talented works and writers in the season, but um very very excited for Bess and some of our other artists uh were also nominated. So uh Ruben Santiago Hudson among them as an actor this time. So a lot of talented folks to celebrate. Fantastic. And I hope uh yeah, I'll definitely be bugging you for tickets or at least watching it when it [laughter] So um you know, you you've got so many things I want to talk to you about in terms of your background, but I think we could start with the Hermitage Artist Retreat. You know, basically where where where you're where you're at as an executive there. Sure. Maybe you give us a little sense of your role and I think probably most interestingly I'd like to try and understand for the audience how it fits into you know what I'd call the theatrical ecosystem if you will of the landscape. Yeah, look that's the term I use the arts ecosystem. So the Hermitage is a multi-disciplinary arts incubator. So we're based in Sarasota, Florida but I see us as a national and global organization as well as a a local organization. We're the only major arts organization in the state of Florida that's exclusively committed to developing and supporting new work across all artistic disciplines. So the works that are developed and incubated here go on to major galleries, concert halls, stages all across the country and around the world. The organization's 23 years old now. We have nearly a thousand alumni across all these disciplines and they come here. We give them time and space at that early stage in their career. I come from the freelance world from the commercial world. I know we'll chat a little bit about that. So I may not have been an obvious person to lead a non-profit institution in that regard but what I love about this place and the mission of the Hermitage is it's about inspiring and fostering that work at the early stage. You know, we're all as artists you know, self-producing to some extent, right? I'm a director and writer as well and most artists whether they realize it or not have to do some kind of self-producing to launch and get their work up. And I often say I had a chip on my shoulder at some point when people would come up at opening night and say I'm so happy to be here at the very beginning and I genuinely loved having these people involved and supporting but I would have to refrain from correcting them and saying, you know, the beginning was actually like 12 years ago when it was me and a collaborator conceiving an idea. So that's what the Hermitage is about. It's not about deliverables. It's actually about that germination stage the generative artists not always the household names but the people creating the work for the household names.

[00:03:54]So, does the I mean, does this exist, you know, whether it's in the far reaches of London, off West End, or off Broadway, or does the country have this?

[00:04:03]I mean, what what what's out there that is similar to this, or are you very unique doing it? You know, there there are other artist residency programs and fellowship opportunities. I think what is um but it's no two are alike. Well, I can't say there may be two others elsewhere that are alike, but what I think's really unique about the Hermitage is the cross-disciplinary nature of it and the location are pretty special. The artists come here, and this sounds like crazy, you know, woo-woo stuff, but the artists say that it's a magical time, and they get more here in any couple done here in any couple weeks than they do in a couple years back home.

[00:04:37]>> Wow. There's something about the air, the water, the atmosphere um that's really special. And um I you know, some people go, "Yeah, yeah, that's cute.

[00:04:46]That's a nice marketing thing." And then they come and experience it and bang out a whole play, and Yeah, yeah.

[00:04:52]>> also the fact that it's not playwrights month or classical musician week or or sculpture Tuesday, right? Every class of artist is going to be a mix. So, if we have six or eight people here, you're going to have a playwright, a choreographer, a classical musician, a sculpture artist, a photographer, a novelist, and a poet. Uh and all of whom get to meet, learn about each other's processes, do their own thing. We trust them a lot. We're not hovering over demanding deliverables. But the other thing I think we are really proud of is our community engagement programs, which are really designed to be a benefit to the artists and the audience, right? We say, "The only rules are come with no expectations and no New York Times critics." That, you know, Liberation was first shared in early excerpts on our beach, as was Gavin Creel's musical Walk on Through, as were many other notable works, but you may not have heard about it cuz we didn't allow people to come review them. We let the artists we say what's going to be helpful for you to try out and explore and we say the audience is here just for an hour in a beautiful setting on the beach or elsewhere to experience whatever that is in whatever form. So I think that's something the artists have told us we do pretty well and we're very proud of so that it's a win for everyone. I already want to come to the beach and hang out with it.

[00:06:10]Is theatrical the focus? You mentioned a bunch of different disciplines or there musicians or filmmakers or Yeah, it's I wouldn't say theater is the focus. I mean my background is of course in theater. So you know, there's certain industry affiliations and relationships there but no theater is equal among other disciplines here and that's the thing it's very egalitarian in that regard. I would say Okay.

[00:06:33]sometimes people affiliate theater uh more from the New York world and such just because there is such a visibility to the celebration the audience aspect, right? You know, you can people know what Phantom of the Opera is. They may not necessarily know about a particular piece of visual art that might have the same cachet within that industry unless they are a collector. So there is a a pop culture crossover in theater but at the same time, you know, we have someone who was here working and he was sharing the song from Golden that he wrote before it won the Oscar and went on to premiere. So a lot of things. Yeah, that's great. I mean I have to ask the question cuz I'm a I'm a business development guy from from music and entertain but hopefully you'll forgive me but um you know, inevitably the question but what is there a business model outside of helping the ecosystem? Do you participate or produce or finance or It's a great question. Actually the Hermitage is pretty unique as an arts organization and that we have no earned revenue. It is entirely driven by donations, philanthropy, private and grants.

[00:07:37]So we really are relying on people who want to trust in that idea of supporting incubation. We do not participate financially in the work of others. One thing we really do ask is that the artists acknowledge their role as a Hermitage alum and take pride in that. I think there was an early era of the Hermitage where people were saying, "Oh, keep it secret." And it felt a little elitist and hidden and I said, "No, we should be celebrating what's made here."

[00:08:01]It It's not to make someone jealous.

[00:08:03]It's to be proud of what someone achieved um and whatever little part or big part we played in that. So, you know, I love when artists are screaming from the rafters, "And I made this at the Hermitage." Because that that in a way also is the business model because it puts it on the radar of people in New York. When they see that byline on the bottom of Liberation's playbill, they can see that it was originally developed at the Hermitage and they take interest.

[00:08:30]They take note. And if they want to be a part of true philanthropy and support of something that is meaningful, heck, I always say if you want to donate to a lot of causes, I I get frustrated when people say, "Oh, it's just art. It's just theater. It's not life and death."

[00:08:45]You know what? I I'll beg to differ because I do think contributing to theater is as or more valuable than contributing to any other funds in politics, medicine, or otherwise. It's part of our world. Sure. No, it's very important. But let me let's cuz I think we we we we have some mutual friends in common and I've done some, you know, Broadway and off-Broadway investment which has drawn me closer to to this business and I I do see it as an art but also as a business and there's a patronage relationship. But I'm you know, some of the things I was involved in some Costaria Phonic which got the Tony a couple years ago.

[00:09:15]Um it came out of I think it was called Playwrights Horizon was was was one of the producers. Or obviously the Public Theater. You think about things like Hamilton. Maybe just help the audience understand like how does it differ from some of those entities, things that you would associate as say production companies that are producing shows. No, it's a great question. I would say the work is at the Hermitage stage uh years before it would achieve that, you know, placement. I keep using liberation as an example just cuz it's very zeitgeisty at the moment, but, you know, liberation by that same standard of example you just gave started at Roundabout Theatre off-Broadway. But, before it went anywhere, it had to be written. And that actual process of creating it that is not in front of an audience happened here. And exploring some of those monologues that I think back on hearing Bess read them herself on the beach uh versus then hearing the actors deliver them in the context of a beautifully executed production. And I'll be clear, not every piece of work made at the Hermitage goes on to great success or turns out to be entertainment business, right?

[00:10:19]But so the difference is there are a lot of steps to development. And I think the early development, what we do is often the forgotten one. You know, I always say, if I look at a community like Sarasota, and there's many regional communities like this with some philanthropic arts and culture supporters, they move to a place like this, some retire to a place like this, and they say, "I'm I love opera."

[00:10:41]They're going to find Sarasota opera. I love theater. Well, there's three equity theaters or more they could find. No one's looking for the artist retreat, so we have to make a little more noise about why that early incubation is so invaluable because without it things don't get to play right to Horizons or Roundabout or any other stage or development process. Right. But do the like, I don't know, Nederlander or Lloyd Webber or some of the folks that are maybe more prominent in the commercial side of the of the theater ecosystem, if you will, do they have touch points? Do they come in and, I don't know, send scouts? Like how does it How does it happen even if it's the rare thing that that ascends onto Broadway or gets onto other theaters? Great question. No, I'd say we're less of a kind of showcase to the industry ground. I think this is a sort of try your recipe out before you ask somebody to sort of taste it at the street fair, right? So, if we were kind of the kitchen, and then I guess you could say these other theaters are a little bit more of the street fair where people get to taste it to determine if it's, you know, now worthy of its own brick-and-mortar restaurant. We don't charge for our programs, even if it's A-list artists. And that's deliberate to not put a pressure on completeness or finished. So, uh and mostly they're 60-70 minutes long. We're rarely and sometimes that's two artists splitting the bill. So, we're rarely showing a full-length work unless that's what an artist specifically wants. So, these organizations, the theater owners and producers, commercial and nonprofit, are aware and starting to really take notice as we do more public programming. And we've had some relationships certainly build out of that where we happen to have someone interesting in the audience and they said, "Oh, hey, you know, I could recommend it to I'm on the board of this place. I should put this you in touch." So, it happens, but the focus is really about the cooking, not the uh packaging.

[00:12:29]Excellent. No, it's very admirable. But now, let me let me shift gears a little bit cuz there's a lot of cylinders in your engine and such impressive experience. [laughter] I mean, we we started talking about maybe just the raw economic side of of Broadway and what it's all about. I want to probe on that a little bit, but you've you've had some experience with with producing, obviously, out in the commercial marketplace as well. Yes.

[00:12:49]>> Uh maybe we can speak a little bit to that, what what your experience has been, what you what your ambitions were there. Absolutely. I mean, yeah, a lot of uh my career and continuing to be my career still is in kind of commercial off-Broadway or London developing new work. That So, there there is that synergy with how I ended up at the Hermitage. I'm a new works guy, but I was a producer on the Broadway revival of Hair uh in 2019. So, uh a few years ago now, and I was quite young on the team, but what was exciting and fascinating um and kind of instilled a lot of my philosophy about commercial producing is um in commercial and nonprofit, you always want a great product, right? I know people make fun of the McDonald's CEO for calling his food product, but that when you're looking at it from a business perspective and we're talking about a business podcast here, there is product aspect. But, um, in non-profit, it's all about stretching the dollar and delivering just the best you can in terms of the artistic merit without the return. With the commercial theater, the return is very much a key part of that. You know, if people I always say there has to be a distinction between philanthropy and investment and I try to draw that line pretty clearly for my investors.

[00:14:01]>> Uh-huh. With Hair, you know, we had a cast of 30-something, a full-size band of I want to say it was like 14 or 16 >> Wow. full understudies, full production.

[00:14:10]It was a $5.6 million Broadway musical.

[00:14:14]And anyone today, a first pass from any general manager would probably budget that at 22 million or something.

[00:14:20]>> Woo. And um, I may be exaggerating slightly, but I I do worry. Yes, there's some of the obvious things of inflation and yes, there's some of the obvious things. Of course, there's cost of living increase, etc. But I I I don't think those are entirely to blame for the astronomical increase. I think that producers have gotten a little less discerning and and going if the money can be there and we can find the money, let's do it and I think there's a lot of things that are costing more than they need to and a lot of fat and I often say as someone who comes from the off-Broadway space, hang on a second. Why does a show where three, you know, low-income characters who are shopping at sort of, you know, off-the-rack cost a costume budget of a couple thousand dollars and then suddenly that same exact show moves to Broadway in a bigger venue where people are further away, suddenly there's two costume associates on top of the designer. There's a budget that's gone into the tens of thousands. And yet, what has changed aside from the audience moving further away? Yes, you need an extra pair of understudy clothes. So, I think there is a star-eyedness star-eyedness with Broadway that causes people to throw money at it a little more carelessly that is concerning to me. And I I think Hair on what I always say is I loved the show. I saw a multi-generational opportunity. I was not the director on that one, but I loved Diane Paulus's vision for it. And that said, on paper, one of the there's three things I always tell investors to look for. Do you like the show? Great, but that's in a way the least important to making an investment decision cuz you can buy tickets, you can buy groups of tickets.

[00:16:03]B, do the numbers work on paper? Because if someone tells you it's go, if we do 95% for 8 months, we can recoup.

[00:16:13]Just the tone of voice alone is not enough to sell you. You have to look out for best case and worst case and everything in between. Yeah. And then three, do you trust your lead producer or lead producers? Because you are empowering them essentially to take your money and, you know, throw it and set it on fire, take it to Vegas, do whatever they want. You you there's not an SEC with checks and balances for how the money is spent. You are putting trust in a private investment. So, that to me is arguably the most important consideration for an investor. So, anyway, I went off on a little tangent, >> that that's great. I mean, I've had pretty intimate experience with some of those models and understand it. So, so does that mean are you Sounds like you're more of a fan of I don't know if it's off Broadway or you're you're you're you're you're expressing healthy skepticism about budgets and costs around musicals and some of the larger budgeted Broadway productions, yeah?

[00:17:03]Yeah, look, I have to look at what hat I'm wearing, right? As a director, for me, it's do I love the work? Great show, I'll be there first day, I'll put in the sweat equity, I love the piece. But for me to take something on as a producer, I is a different hat to wear and to be able to say, "Can I believe, do I believe this could and should work?" You know, if I could afford to finance this myself, would I?

[00:17:28]Um yeah, I'm very skeptical of insanely wealthy producers who are out talking about how hard it is to raise the money from [music] others. I'm sitting there going, "Hmm, okay, interesting."

[00:17:42]Well, [music] just to talk about Broadway a little bit, you know, I've had some experience with probably colleagues and production companies that you've known [music] beyond Stereophonic with things that it's been very interesting to me and I I don't know what the right word is, but you know, there's sort of this you need to be big to compete factor and there's everything from lots of TV stars and social media in it now and sometimes it feels so crowded to me. I think some of the press has been that, you know, 2026 is going to be maybe one of the toughest years for the big Broadway productions.

[00:18:11]I don't know if you if you buy that or Uh you know, I've been hearing some version of that every year over year for the, you know, 17 years or whatever I've been in the commercial business of it. I I Is it going to keep getting trickier in different regards? Yes, but as long as people keep still willing to spend the money, which they have continued to do despite on paper the costs not working.

[00:18:32]Star casting has become more of a need because of the cost, but it is in a way because of the cost. You Look, you worked on a play that was uh successfully budgeted and successfully produced without big stars, but then it had subsequent productions that didn't do as well. We've all been there, you Right, right. know, and others that may do great. Um so, there are exceptions to the rule, right? And the problem is when you try to mimic exactly what someone else did. I think I'm a big believer in going through line by line. The cost of a star is not the problem. People can get mad about George Clooney making $300,000 a week, but guess what? George Clooney making $300,000 a week is why Good Night and Good Luck brought in a couple million a week instead of 800,000 a week. So, the stars usually more than pay for themselves on that regard.

[00:19:23]Um careful if any agents are listening, I'll still be negotiating hard. Uh but no, I I I think the it's the other cost that I think have gotten a little careless because I think producing on Broadway in particular has become a bit of a sort of wealthy person's game and there's a little bit of unfortunately vanity producing. Not everyone. I have many peers and friends who if they're listening, you know, they know who I'm referring to and not, but it has become a little bit of a let's give it a go. It is what it is and that's one thing if you're renovating your kitchen and you want to spend a little extra, but when you're shepherding other people's dollars, you got to think about how to stretch it and be more careful and I I fear that's going out the window because someone's always willing to replenish or let someone in in a different back-end way. Yeah. What what do you think about, you know, the West End in London? I was just in New York and we you know, we spent actually several nights just doing off-Broadway stuff and saw I think a show with Hugh Jackman and one the next night with a couple of the stars, Ali Wentworth that my my younger ones just loved and I felt the tickets weren't cheap, but I I felt totally satisfied with the quality of what I was seeing. We've had some stuff out here.

[00:20:35]The Atlantic Theater Group has brought some productions LA as well. So, I don't know, it feels to me like there's maybe more of an opportunity these days for independent or off-Broadway or Yeah, look, when I was making most of my living in commercial off-Broadway, people were saying, "Oh, off-Broadway's dead. I'm only focusing on Broadway."

[00:20:52]And I'm like, "Well, you know, the pendulum swings because you're right."

[00:20:56]But I will say you just referenced you went to an off-Broadway play because Hugh Jackman was in it, which is how you probably even knew about it. It might have been a great play, but what drew you there? So, that still is a part of the the game and the industry and especially in the commercial world but also non-profit for off-Broadway in London. But I do think it's an opportunity to think more strategically about making a show and building it outward. That's what I like about doing things in London because the costs are more manageable. You focus on the show and then build what you need to make that show possible. I think what's happening with Broadway now is it's a marketing plan building inward to a show sometimes and you hear about more people in the rehearsal room every day and I'm like, what are they contributing to what's on stage? You know, it it just starts to feel a little overbearing and there's performing not rehearsing sometimes. So for me as they say a bit in London, there's a get on with it aspect that I very much appreciate and if anything they tease me there for my workaholic hours but there's not a minute wasted there in show and tell.

[00:21:58]It's it's all about I'm here for the play. Let's get it on. The challenge in London that over time will become more problematic is I don't know how artists genuinely make a living in London. You know, if people want to complain about cost of living in the US, it's not like anyone's getting rich off of the minimums that unions impose.

[00:22:18]In London, I swear I if I if I did not have an artistic director job, I couldn't just go casually direct a play here and there.

[00:22:27]The fees are not livable wages.

[00:22:30]Actors, you know, I love the energy and passion they bring but a lot of their wages are not reasonable. So it's a very different ecosystem and what people are willing to put up with there and to work just as hard, you know.

[00:22:44]>> Yeah. Let's talk about audiences a little bit cuz you mentioned some stuff around Sarasota maybe with the audience being a little bit older and I know I know from some of my experiences Broadway and off-Broadway, the tickets are extremely expensive.

[00:22:59]Young people can't afford them. I don't know if mom and dad are buying them with credit card, you know, with the kids are using mom and dad's credit cards or what it is, but what I want to talk about, you know, audiences and how do you get some of the younger generations into the theaters and paying attention and then eventually being patrons and then going regularly? It's a great question, right?

[00:23:16]Because I remember when I was going to the theater regularly for rush tickets when they were in the range of $5 to $25 to sit in the front row of the orchestra. I'm not that old, but >> Yeah. you know, so I'm sure other people have stories of walking miles through the snow for a dollar to sit in the orchestra, but nevertheless TKTS, I don't know if they still have that, but that was my generation. Yeah, it's still around.

[00:23:36]>> do, but now I mean now student rush and standing room tickets are, you know, still cost prohibitive for many. So, um I I do think there's an income barrier.

[00:23:45]Um it's why I kind of fight to keep our programs free at the Hermitage cuz the idea of trying to put a cost value on what we do for audience or artist is a little tricky. But with the costs getting what they are, I don't fault producers for dynamic pricing. I really don't. I'd rather they get it than third-party scalpers, right? I'd rather the show and the people producing make the money who took the risk than some third-party random system capitalizing on that. So, I don't fault dynamic pricing. At the same time, um I think when there are ways to find opportunities to offer low-cost and gradient seating. If someone wants the best seat and they're a seat snob, sometimes in certain venues I can be. I make a value judgment of whether I want to pay more to see the actors sweat and get spit on. Yeah. Um you know, but there are some shows I'm like, I want to see it, but I I don't want to pay that price ticket. And I think it depends how cost sensitive the audience is. I I think the more gradient those are, I think um I'm concerned when the back rows get too expensive. I'm not too concerned about the front center house seats when Yeah. people complain about, you know, well, you know, it was so much. I'm like, well, they're trying to run a business. If they can sell them for $1,000, do that. But when there's no affordable ticket even in the back row or standing room, that concerns me. I don't know the fix for it with the costs being what they are. Yeah. And I haven't yet seen it backfire. Everyone keeps saying it's eventually going to implode and the pendulum's going to swing so much everyone's going to stop going.

[00:25:14]But, in terms of the young people, I I have the same question you do, Seth.

[00:25:18]I go, "My god, with COVID when so many people decided they were going to work from home or stop working." I went, "I guess everyone in the world is now independently wealthy and still going to Broadway shows, living their life." I'm sometimes baffled by it, but at the flip side is when people get passionate about something, they will put money into it. Now, some of these young folks may no longer do what I did, which was go to a Broadway show every week.

[00:25:43]>> Mhm. Instead, they're going to pick the one that they want to see because it's a show that grabs them or the star power or, you know, the rent of one generation might be the TV star of this generation.

[00:25:55]>> Yeah. will shell it out the way they will for big concert tickets or for nice sneakers or the right piece of fashion.

[00:26:02]Yeah. Young people make expensive purchases above their means too, just like grown-ups.

[00:26:08]My disappointment is I hear less and less kids who are going to Broadway on the regular without getting invited as a comp, and that's discouraging. Yeah, let me hit on that point a little bit further, a little a little bit of Carley too, but which is which is I've seen this with Romeo and Juliet from a couple years ago on Broadway, which I was part of as well that didn't get great reviews, but had like I guess I would call it social media traction and engagement in a major way around two stars. And that seems to me to be something that drove a lot of the appetite amongst younger audiences for it, made it successful investment and business actually even with the critics not not reviewing. I see a little bit with some movies as well. I mean, what do you What do you think about the role of social media? Is it something that is helpful or is it compromised? You can't underestimate its power, but you also can't put all your eggs in that basket.

[00:26:58]When I hear things like we're going to cast our show based on how many social media followers they have, that gives me a huge ick because that's that's been proven to not work, right? You've had shows full of like social media influencers. The ingredients have to be there. So yes, you had social media pull from Kit Connor and Rachel Zegler's fan bases who happened to have very zeitgeisty moments at that time, but you still had Romeo and Juliet. You had a show that had not sort of had a notable production in New York. I I was surprised by its success, I'll be candid cuz it had a lot against it once the reviews came out. But I think that social media is a powerful tool, it just can't be the only one. And I don't think it was I know it's easy to dismiss it going, "Oh, the reviews didn't like it."

[00:27:42]It was still Romeo and Juliet on a major Broadway stage with, you know, two recognizable actors who their kids could come and their parents could take them and it was palatable to both even if it appealed maybe more to the kids and then the parents ended up going along. So I I think it's Do I look at it and am I curious how many social media followers people have? Yes, but to the best of my knowledge, you know, some of the biggest stars also still stay off social media because they don't want to be value judged based on that. Well, but if you're a producer and you've got a some investment in it, you're probably looking at it as a means to help, you know, leverage getting into the theaters, particularly younger people, I'm assuming, right? Yes, and if it's the right brand though, right? If somebody's known as sort of a cooking show star, that may or may not translate to people who like theater, right? You can cast someone who is, you know, has a sports blog, but unless you're doing a play about Larry Bird, it may not matter. Right, right. Eddie, it's so great to have you on. I really appreciate this and I definitely I definitely want to come to Sarasota now.

[00:28:45]What What's on your What's on your radar? What what are you working on the next the next year or so? Where where can people keep abreast of what you're doing and and your your great organization as well?

[00:28:53]>> Yes. No, I'm have separate from the Hermitage. I am also actually going to be directing and producing a season of plays in London next for 26-27. Details I can't share yet, but we will be announcing soon. But that much I can say, so keep an ear to the ground on that. That's coming together. A lot of moving parts right now, so I'm going to be back and forth between London and Sarasota in a in a big way next season.

[00:29:17]Still going to be here at the Hermitage, too. So I'm I'm a masochist who doesn't sleep much, but juggling two time zones helps. And um with the Hermitage, we just got a new gift of property, a $12 million gift of land and property that doubles the size of our campus, which is exciting. And another art center as well. So we really have a lot of growth initiatives happening, and we're inviting a whole new class of artists soon. So there's a lot of cool things coming out of here, and what's really fun for me, I'm 6 and 1/2 years in here now, and I see work that, you know, started before I got here, work that started when I got here, work that moved exceptionally fast by all standards with liberation, kind of 3 years from first version start to a Broadway production.

[00:30:01]That's unusual. I'm more used to seeing the like trickling of a show that's finding its next legs a few years after it started here, and it's always really fun to see that journey, you know, and know what role we played, and excited to out it from the rooftops, and we're going to try to do that more and encourage people to just at large, you know, anyone who is in the philanthropic spirit, whether supporting the Hermitage or not, support new work because it is the part that needs the most support.

[00:30:29]Thrilled for everyone to support the arts and the classics, [music] but I am a new work shameless advocate that it's the most important thing that we need.

[00:30:36]Fantastic. Thank you so much for coming, Andy Sandberg of the Hermitage in in Sarasota, and lots of great stuff coming in London as well.

[00:30:43]This has been breaking [music] down the biz. I want to thank everyone for listening and watching today.

[00:30:51]>> [music] [music]