TIOLI 8/28 TIOLI with Special Guest

Added: 2026-05-31

[00:00:01]Start sending your video from streaming.

[00:00:05]There we go. Cheese and rice. It just brings you to the edge to the brink.

[00:00:11]Okay, there we go. We are all up. I see three heads.

[00:00:17]I have my cords attached.

[00:00:20]Could you imagine when vibrators used to have a plug? How awkward that would have been.

[00:00:27]So much more convenient to have a plug.

[00:00:31]>> Okay. All right. Hello and welcome to this week's episode of It's Going to Be a [ __ ] Show. Yay.

[00:00:40]Uh I am one of your hosts of the Take It or Leave It podcast. My name is Meredith Mason and I'm Tiffany Jenkins. This podcast discuss all things marriage, motherhood, and everything in between.

[00:00:51]Please remember, we're not professionals at anything you may actually need. So any advice we give you, you can take or leave because it might be crap. On today's episode of Take It or Leave It, we in fact have a special guest, which um doesn't happen often because we are very bad at scheduling, putting things together, being organized, starting a podcast on time. But today we have Kimberly aka Kimmy Cakes Wolf.

[00:01:23]I got that right. Right.

[00:01:24]>> Yeah, you do.

[00:01:25]>> Okay. And uh Kimmy actually is a sex ed presenter. She teaches parents how to have the sexual relations talk with their kids. Welcome to the show.

[00:01:42]>> Thank you. I'm so happy to be here.

[00:01:46]Now, I'm sure I left out some amazing things that you've done, like you've written books and you're in the middle of a massive Did it happen yet? Launch.

[00:01:56]>> We're about to. We're going to launch soon.

[00:01:58]>> Okay. We'll talk about that um in a second. But, um, I was going to have you on this podcast while Tiffany was on hiatus, and I'm glad she's back because I think this is actually, you know, I've had the sex talk with all of my kids in improperly, I'm sure. But Tiffany is really at that age where this is going to be pertinent information for her. So I mean get us started with uh birds and the bees. Let's start with what is the right time to start addressing um the sex talk.

[00:02:41]>> So whenever parents start is okay. So I never want parents to feel like oh no I'm late for this conversation or I haven't done enough or I have more to do. Pressure isn't good for this conversation. We want to understand that this conversation happens on a continuum and it actually happens beginning at birth. So if we have parents listening here who have little teeny babies or are thinking about having babies soon, um these conversations about sexuality and healthy body image and boundaries actually begin from birth. we can start practicing with the language with little ones on the changing table forward talking them through what their body parts are asking for permission even if you know just practicing saying okay I'm going to change your diaper now okay we're going to change your clothes now just having those conversations gets kids used to the tone of voice that we're going to use and it perhaps more importantly at an early age gives parents an opportunity to get started having these conversations so that's the very starting point now there are phase pieces of this conversation and when and how parents have it can be impacted by factors such as their own child's development, their community norms, the whether or not they have an older sibling who might be coming home talking about things or mentioning things, what kind of media they may be exposed to, what types of things they might be hearing about in their community. You know, there are different things that can speed up or slow down these conversations. So people really have to just know their kid and know their family and know their values and know the forces at play in their child's life to be able to have these conversations.

[00:04:19]Now when it comes to the talk, there's a couple different the talks. And you know one >> let let me interrupt you for one second.

[00:04:26]We were having some microphone issues and I just want to make sure that things are a little bit better so that everybody can hear.

[00:04:31]>> No worries.

[00:04:34]>> Can you hear me now?

[00:04:36]>> Is that better?

[00:04:39]dial.

[00:04:41]>> Okay, I will. Thank you. Love you. Bye.

[00:04:45]>> Sorry. Okay, we were having some mic issues and I think I've almost got it.

[00:04:48]One second. Phil will edit all of this out and it will sound beautiful when we go live. Thanks.

[00:04:54]>> Love a great editor.

[00:05:05]>> Okay, I apologize. I think we're good now.

[00:05:08]>> No problem.

[00:05:09]>> Much better. Everybody's saying much better. I can't make Kimberly louder.

[00:05:13]Kimberly will have to make Kimberly louder if she can.

[00:05:17]>> Okay. Can you hear me better now?

[00:05:20]>> And Tiff, can you just give us a real quick check?

[00:05:24]>> A B C D E F G H I J K L M O P.

[00:05:28]>> All right, let's see what the audience is saying.

[00:05:30]>> CD E F G >> Oh, wow. Okay. Show off.

[00:05:35]I've been singing more lately. I was an opera singer growing up. That was my thing.

[00:05:40]>> Really?

[00:05:40]>> It's really cool. I like to think I can opera sing.

[00:05:43]>> Oh, you can. Tiffany could. You two could like duet.

[00:05:46]>> Yeah, totally. Well, I don't know how you feel about 90s Janet Jackson, but she's kind of been, you know, my jam lately. So, if you want her duet on that, I'm up for that.

[00:05:56]>> Okay. I would love it.

[00:05:57]>> I would like to be Michael though in the duet.

[00:06:00]>> Totally fine with me.

[00:06:01]>> Like an opera version.

[00:06:03]>> I called my older sister. I was like, "Should we talk about why all I want to listen to right now is '9s Michael and Janet?"

[00:06:09]>> I loved their song Scream.

[00:06:13]>> His was the only autograph I ever got growing up in LA.

[00:06:17]>> That's so cool.

[00:06:18]>> I just >> That's >> You don't ask when you grow up there.

[00:06:21]You're like, "I'm not going to ask." But I saw him and I was like, >> "There's going to be one autograph I get in my entire life and it's going to be this one." And I made and I'm just going to shoot my shot.

[00:06:33]Meredith, what are you doing?

[00:06:36]>> I feel like she's on a different plane.

[00:06:39]>> I'm trying to turn Kimberly down in Riverside because they're saying Dave is saying may need to be turned down a in Riverside a hair, but I don't know if I did.

[00:06:51]I'm doing it in the studio, Dave. All right, Kimberly, can you talk again?

[00:06:55]>> Sure. My name is Kimmy Wolf. I am very excited to be here this morning.

[00:07:00]>> Thank you for having me.

[00:07:03]How is that Dave?

[00:07:05]He's listening while he's at work and he doesn't >> Poor guy has such a [ __ ] [ __ ] of a day today and this is the last thing he needs to be doing.

[00:07:18]Okay, I think it's good. Let's see.

[00:07:21]>> Okay, everybody sounds good. Don Dugo says we all sound good. And I'm gonna go with Don Dugo's word.

[00:07:26]>> Thanks, Dondo.

[00:07:27]>> Because I'm gonna get to see Don Dugo, I think Saturday. Right.

[00:07:33]So, do you want me to start from the top?

[00:07:35]>> Okay. So, why don't we start with let's go back. Let's let's go back to um we'll tailor it to uh I guess kids between the ages of like the like puberty into middle school and where you're you know like Tiffany's kids are 10 and 11.

[00:08:01]Right. Like we're coming into birthdays, right? Well, Chloe, >> they're 9 and 10.

[00:08:04]>> Nine and 10.

[00:08:06]>> But Kaden is going to be 11, right?

[00:08:10]>> Well, yeah.

[00:08:11]>> Okay. I mean, >> next month. Let's not speed things up, >> Meredith.

[00:08:17]>> It's right around the corner, but that's okay.

[00:08:20]>> Time.

[00:08:20]>> Okay. Um, so yeah, so birthdays are right around the corner for them. So, but but so they're, you know, nine and 10 and 98%.

[00:08:31]And um my kids obviously um the sex the sex talk changes I believe >> as your kids age because I have a kid who's having sex.

[00:08:45]>> Uh >> what?

[00:08:47]>> Tiffany Jenkins, my son is in college.

[00:08:51]>> Are you kidding me? Did he tell you, >> Meredith? Tiffany, >> why why wasn't I involved?

[00:09:01]>> What is going on?

[00:09:04]>> You can't just drop something like this on me in front of a new friend.

[00:09:08]>> No, it's Hey, I'm I'm your love teacher.

[00:09:11]Like, I got it. I'm good. No judgment.

[00:09:13]>> Okay.

[00:09:15]>> I am unwell. I'm just letting everyone know. You can go. You can continue, but I'm not okay with this.

[00:09:22]Oh my gosh. Um yeah. Okay. So, uh my point is I think that the sex talk does change as our kids uh get older and and age obviously, but let's say we were starting with kids Tiffany's age, right?

[00:09:37]They're um on the verge of middle school. What is the conversation that like how would Tiffany go about this conversation with kids her age?

[00:09:49]So first of all, the main guiding principle is that the talk as we had it or as we understand stood it when we were younger is dead. The way to have these conversations is to sprinkle little bits of information over time.

[00:10:04]Now when it comes to younger kids who are going into middle school, the main goal is to make sure that they understand the mechanics of their bodies, that they understand the mechanics of sexual activity. You know, this is something that I cover in with my seventh graders. And some people teach sexed earlier. I've taught in Cal I trained in California. I live in Texas. I've taught across the country. I think seventh grade for inclass sexed is a pretty good starting point because what that allows is for parents to have their own conversations. But seventh grade is really when, you know, everybody's really kind of in the full swing of puberty. They're becoming more and more aware of their surroundings of the opposite sex. They're at the beginning of adolescence, they're really starting to have more complex social and romantic relationships. So the conversation around this time is the goal is to give them information to get to them before and unfortunately the stats on pornography suggest that many of them will have seen it even if it's by accident prior to this by age eight.

[00:11:10]um not all of them but many. Um and that's really concerning in my line of work. You know, you ask parenting experts like myself with, you know, kind of an academic bent. What we're really worried about and a lot of people will say pornography is a big problem. And so what we want to do when it comes to kids coming into middle school is be giving them information. And a lot of parents are like, well, what if I if I talk to them about it and they're going to want to do it and what am I, you know, I don't want to encourage them. Well, the thing is is that if you just deliver facts in a very straightforward, even clinical fashion, and you know, parents, some parents don't know how to have this conversation or they don't know what it is. Pull in a doctor. Like the pediatrician is happy to explain this in little bits like as the conversations go on. Um, you know, there are different ways to kind of hack this conversation.

[00:11:59]But the key is is that they need to understand the facts about sex and sexuality. Um, more and more as they get closer to that, you know, sixth, seventh, eighth grade mark, especially right before high school when things start to become more real. And we know as kids get older, the percentage of kids who are having sex and teenagers having sex goes up, right? That's just human nature. Um, so there are a lot of different topics in there, but the goal is make sure that they have a baseline of facts because if they don't have a baseline of facts from a knowledgeable source, a parent, a doctor, even a book, you know, those can be useful certainly, you know, giving your kid a book and being like, you can start with this and you can ask me questions and I'll get myself together before you ask me them and I'll take, you know, I'll listen to my friend Kimmy and she'll help me calm down so that I can have a good response to this or whatever the case may be. You know what I hear and what you know what we know is that the more information kids have the better their decisions are.

[00:12:55]There is nothing I always say like a round of anonymous questions in a seventh grade classroom to make you realize that even though we feel like sex is everywhere and the kids are thinking about it and they're starting to be hormonal and we see crushes and things happening, they really don't understand some of the basics. And I can tell you what some of those questions are. But that's the conversation that you want to be kind of focused on is what are the baseline facts and what I also think is important from an early age is direct direct guidance on communication that we say my around these topics because the facts are easy the facts of you know what we call you know wrongly the birds and the bees that's the easiest part of it because anybody can look up the facts what trips people up in their relationships what makes people do things they regret or do things that you know have long-term consequences or drop their boundaries when they know they should be keeping it is that people don't understand the communication aspects of these difficult topics. So, it's a dual conversation around the facts and communication.

[00:13:57]>> And yeah, that's I think that's a really big point to highlight because I think it starts to get really nuanced and I think you're right where that happens come high school >> because their bodies are like full grown. Mhm.

[00:14:14]>> And all the things are raging and now you're talking about how quickly a boundary can be crossed or dropped because of a situation that they're in.

[00:14:24]Um, and this is the perfect time to talk about it actually because it's homecoming season.

[00:14:30]>> Absolutely. So, like I've got, you know, my my my adorable almost 15year-old um came out of the his bedroom the other day with a big sign that said, "Icy, Icy, like an icy cup. Icy, you going to Hoco with me?" And it was this big like Hoco, I guess, proposal or whatever. and he had this big icy to give this girl and and like he drew the whole thing on it and it was adorable or whatever, right? And so like they're going to her homecoming cuz she goes to a different school and and she's going to his homecoming. Um, and all of this is adorable, but it's just I I sat there like fighting back, you know, holding back these tears because it's like I I'm launching another kid into this different phase of relationships.

[00:15:27]>> And it's scary because all we can do is arm them with information and then they're the ones that have to make these potential lifealtering decisions. And why the [ __ ] are we allowing them to do that?

[00:15:41]>> I have a question.

[00:15:43]>> Can we all agree that the kids don't want to hear it from us? Like like the kids my kid I can guarantee my kids don't want to have that conversation with me. And I also feel like the minute we give kids phones, they already know what's up.

[00:16:00]They already know everything they need to know. So, is it cool to just be like, "Hey guys, um, I'm here. If you have any questions about anything having to do with any of that, uh, just hit me up. I've been around the block. You should have seen your mom in her early 20s. She was swinging from the chandelier. She knows what time it is.

[00:16:22]So, if you have any questions, come to Otherwise, I'm not going to, you know what I mean? I'm not going to sit you down and do the talk because I feel like we don't need to do that anymore. I feel like it's just like a wink wink. You know what's up.

[00:16:37]>> I love this question.

[00:16:38]>> Okay, >> this there's a multi this is a multi-pronged question. There's multi-pronged answer here. So, >> I love a multi-prong.

[00:16:45]>> Yeah, me too. So, here's the deal. We know from the research that even if kids are rolling their eyes, even if they're saying stop, even if they're being like, "You're so embarrassing." are like, I can't even like get out of here. Um, we know from the research that they do want to hear from their parents and that >> really >> Yes. And they want, and I see it in my classrooms, too, and I've heard it from my clients as well. You know, what they want is to be leveled with.

[00:17:18]These are really difficult topics to talk about and they're loaded and nothing, you know, there's no topic.

[00:17:23]There are some topics that are as complicated and complex, but there's no topic that people bring more that parents bring more baggage to than this one. Right? There are other topics that we bring baggage to, but this is one of the ones that we bring the most baggage to. And the conversations since the beginning of time have been awkward. Sex in and of itself is silly and awkward and hard to talk about for a lot of people, but it is at the baseline one of the facts of life.

[00:17:48]Kids do want to hear it from you. And it's really important to tow that line.

[00:17:53]So a really good starting point is for a parent is to be like, "Hey, you know what? I'm your person. No matter what you hear, no matter what you learn, I want you, you know, check your facts with me." Because when we Yes, it's true. Kids have a lot of information from their phones. So for instance, it's really changed the way I teach. When I started teaching 20 years ago, I used to be like, "Here are 20 symptoms of chlamydia. Here are 20 symptoms of gonorrhea." That's not a good use of our time anymore. Like they can look those up if they really need to. And in fact, they don't even really need to. There's general categories of symptoms for STDs and ways to search them out and things like that. And that's more of like a doctor thing. My job is to provide, and I argue that this is the parents job as well, in collaboration with someone like me or a doctor, other parents, depending on what parents feel good enough to discuss. Our job is to provide them this baseline of information to combat the misinformation that they are getting from pornography even if they're not watching it because pornography has infil infiltrated our culture um from mass media from their peers and just from their own trial and error. So our our job as parents and guidance you know givers is just giving them this baseline of information and then being a think helping them to think critically about what they're taking in and then telling them over and over again as you said I'm your person like I've been around the block like however parents want to say that you know like I you know what it is the facts that uh I actually know a thing or two about this and like you know especially two mothers like you who are you conscious and thoughtful and aware of the, you know, the peaks and valleys of life. You know, nobody better than you to be able to discuss these things. And it doesn't have to be, you know, I talked to a lot of parents and my book is for girl dads. And I spoke to, you know, I spoke to a lot of fathers. I interviewed over a hundred men for my book. And there's this big concern with parents that it's like, well, I don't know if I feel equipped to talk about some of these topics. like I don't know if I feel like I' I've been perfect at it myself, like how could I possibly guide them? But the fact is is like it's not about perfection, it's about progress. We know that. So, they do want to talk to you. Um, and I always say that if your kid makes you feel like a loser, like if they're like, "You are sucking at this or you're making me feel really awkward," like that usually means you're winning >> in my category.

[00:20:22]>> Should I try to make it cool?

[00:20:24]>> You can.

[00:20:25]>> You know what I mean? Like, listen up.

[00:20:26]No cap. If you get ried up, you got to protect that cap.

[00:20:34]>> No cap, no slap. You know what I mean?

[00:20:36]Like, do I use their lingo or do I do I just because I don't know how to talk to them in general, >> right?

[00:20:42]>> So, to talk to them about something like this feels I mean, we have we've had conversations in passing, but it hasn't been a sit down strictly conversation because that's traumatizing.

[00:20:52]>> It's hard and it's hard for parents and it's not necessarily necessary. what you you know you just have to get the ball over the finish line, right? Like you just got to get this conversation over the finish line. So there are a bunch of different ways to do it. So when you talk to when you talk about like how do I talk to my kid, right? So you have to know your kid and you have to know your family and that doesn't mean that you're going to get it perfect. And you know I always say I'm like I had a mother she was like hey can I just like sit my kids down together at the table and just like tell them what I think and I'm like if that works for you try it. I'm like, look, like your worst case scenario, however they get good information is like fine by me. They get good information by a supportive adult, not a perfect adult, but like a supportive adult who's like, I am either willing to give you this information or help you find the right information and the right help, whatever it is. Like that is fine by me. I told this mom, I was like, listen, your worst case scenario if you think that it's the right idea in your family to sit your kids down and give them a talk is that they're going to just like roast you in their wedding toasts. like that is fine by me. Like give them a story to tell. But the story that really matters there is that you were willing to talk about something that's really difficult and that what that signals to teenagers especially is that like you're you're willing to have the conversation when they need it.

[00:22:06]>> I'm so sorry to interrupt. I just got a sign that says your recording has stopped. Something went wrong and you aren't being recorded anymore. Everyone else is still being recorded.

[00:22:19]Let's see. Um, >> and before I say anything else, I just want >> So, what does it say on your side?

[00:22:29]>> That thing I just said.

[00:22:33]Hold on. I'm I could try clicking out and clicking back in, but I don't know. It's going to make me wait.

[00:22:41]>> It's okay. Go out and come back in because then the recording will probably come back.

[00:22:59]Every week my husband swears he's going to cancel the podcast forever and never do it again because every week without fail we have tech issues.

[00:23:08]>> Tech I you know I have a lot of tech I present as a profession. That's what I do and I always have tech issues. the same Tiffany.

[00:23:15]>> Yeah, >> you go by Tiff or Tiffany because I see Tiff.

[00:23:18]>> Both. She's She's um >> She's bisexual.

[00:23:27]>> Let's see if Oh, I see it says it's recording.

[00:23:31]Okay, you're back on. You're recording.

[00:23:34]>> Okay, cool.

[00:23:35]>> Yeah.

[00:23:35]>> Who's bisexual?

[00:23:38]>> My dog. It's a thing.

[00:23:40]>> Oh, I thought you were talking about me.

[00:23:41]I'm like, I'm he I can hear you.

[00:23:45]>> Yeah, you I was talking about you, Tiffany.

[00:23:47]>> Heteroplexible.

[00:23:48]>> Heteroplexible.

[00:23:52]>> Um, anyways, thank you for your answer. That was very helpful.

[00:23:58]I just think, you know, if you you got to know your kid, and I always say that, I mean, like my I have a lot of dads in my life, a lot of father figures in in general, and you know, some are able to use humor with their kids, and some are able to level them with their language, you know, level with them with their language, and others are not. So, you just kind of kind of feel it out. It's okay to >> I'm so knowing my kids for my daughters, I'm going to have to do some kind of unboxing [Music] >> where it's like, okay, what is this?

[00:24:25]This is the scrotum.

[00:24:27]>> Oh, >> thank you for asking. And then you tell him about that. And then you unbox something else. It's like, what is this?

[00:24:32]This is the taint. Or you just like talk to him about the body parts or whatever.

[00:24:36]And then with my son, I'm going to have to make it some kind of basketball game.

[00:24:39]Like every time I make a hoop, I have to tell him a sex fact. And every time he makes one, we get to skip one or something.

[00:24:47]>> Brilliant. And what? And you know, yeah, you don't have to sit down and have a talk. It's just however you get it across the finish line. And like I said, it's not about one talk. Now, certainly if you are explaining the mechanics of how sex works, that's a talk, right?

[00:25:01]Like we got to figure that out. Either your sex said your biology teacher at school is going to tell you that if you're in school or your homeschool tutor or whoever is going to teach you that or we're going to take you to the doctor or, you know, like if you have teenagers, I'm going to be able to do that for you soon online. Um but basically you just you know there are certain talks that like actually require some focus and then there are other talks about bodies and boundaries and safety and communication and relationships and that stuff is just you just sprinkle it in whenever you can to help them understand that there's an art and a science to relationships that they're not just like something we learn by trial and error but they're things that we can be thoughtful about.

[00:25:43]>> I think that that's great. So you're gonna So So what you're getting ready to launch is actually an interactive course where parents and kids >> are having this quote unquote sex talk together with you.

[00:26:03]>> Close. Yes. So >> close. Okay. Explain it.

[00:26:05]>> So what I'm doing is I'm about to launch Kimberly Wolf's love class. This has been >> Yeah. So I always say I lead with love.

[00:26:12]Um, this isn't just a sexed course. Love class is explorations in self-love, relational communication, and sexual well-being. And it incorporates all of the latest research and all of the latest trends to help prepare students and parents to have conversations and to be in relationship specifically in the digital age. you know this is not you know things are a little bit different than they were and there are different relational themes that we have to address with young people and so it covers basic sexed and bodies but it also covers like I said self-confidence body confidence and importantly relational communication and also it's all in context everything is informed by the digital culture that in in which we find ourselves which includes online interactions between young people and how they're managing those and also the influence of pornography which is having a negative impact on relationships and loving interactions. And so >> can I interrupt you right there because I have a question >> specific to pornography.

[00:27:24]>> So obviously I can see you know how this is such a different landscape than when we were growing up because pornography was very hard to come by. It was you took somebody's magazine or, you know, I'm assuming I I had never seen porn, but I'm assuming guys, you know, that are that are my age now, when they were in high school, there may have been like Skinnamax or something like that, but it was much harder to come by than what we have now on our phone.

[00:27:52]>> Um, so obviously for kids and for in this developmental time, pornography I I can see would be quite damaging. Uh but but what are your thoughts as an expert in sex sexed and sexual health? You know, for pornography in general, do you think that it's just all bad? I that's a great question. So, I don't think it's all bad. Um, I would say that as an expert and also like, you know, someone who's been in classrooms with teenagers asking me questions, which is one of the ways that I can see the themes that I also read in the research, is that pornography is having an overall negative impact on in-person physical intimacy. Now there is, you know, quote unquote good porn and there are experts who can point people towards that and be like this is, you know, healthy themes and healthy sexuality and it's instructive and there are certainly like companies and creators who are working to do this. But what I am seeing in my classrooms, the the the questions that kids are asking me that are clearly informed by their viewing of pornography and what I know of the research on how porn is affecting people, it's very concerning for me, especially for young people. So yes, can people watch porn safely and not have it have a negative impact? Like absolutely. And but is that what I think most of the kids are coming by? It is not.

[00:29:18]>> And that is really concerning. And you know, I think what's important to know about pornography, just beyond the question that you asked, is that they're seeing it early, whether or not on purpose, many of them are seeing it before they are having sexual interactions of their own. And they, many of them, I have to look up the stat. I think it's 48% um that, and don't quote me on that, but you know, everybody can go look up these stats on Common Sense Media, which is my go-to for this research. They're incredible. And you know, these kids are looking at porn and many of them feel like this is a good source of information. Now, Tiffany, to your prior point, more students think parents are a better source of information than think porn is a good source of information, but close to 50% think porn is a good source of information on sex. That is super concerning.

[00:30:13]>> And um so they're seeing it before they have their own interactions. That's a nightmare. Um, pornography is presented as entertainment, but we know that it's not. But what is mostly concerning for me and which is reflected in the questions which I can share some of them with you is that pornography is like, oh, like this is like entertainment and this is like just how people have sex.

[00:30:36]But what's even in like, you know, the chillest porn, shall we say, and I I actually don't watch porn either. I just read about it. People are like, "Oh, you sex you must watch a lot of porn." And I'm like, I actually I don't watch any porn, but um that's really a revealing question that you're asking me. Um but um pornography is presented in context. The storylines contain really concerning power dynamic issues, um communication issues, lack of consent, lack of protection, um and sexual violence. And what it has done is that it has normalized a lot of behaviors that some people might find really comfortable and and fun and of interest and fulfilling for them but maybe only some people but it's normalizing it for everybody. So then what we see is that we know that mostly boys are watching pornography and then we are seeing you know their partners even if they're not watching porn feeling pressured by this pornographic culture. Now the last point I'll make about this is that beyond like actual porn because this is such normalized conversation and imagery what we have seen is that it has made its way into popular culture and one example is for instance and you know teenage boys and teenage girls but teenage girls are reading more of this is romance novels like a lot of romance novels have some pretty heavy pornographic themes in them these days. So the a, you know, the the answer to this is >> it's not even safe to read these days, >> right? Like and everywhere.

[00:32:14]>> Who didn't read like, you know, steamy sex scenes and books like how did, you know, and Cosmopolitan magazine like when we were growing up, right? Like that was a way that we were learning about it. But like I would I'm going to go ahead and say like the tide has shifted and there's these themes of like you know I don't I don't use toxic masculinity as a theme generally as a as a term. I'm a gender I was a gender studies major in college. I think that's pretty limiting and I think men's experience is complex, but I would say that what we are seeing in pornography is actually toxic masculinity. And people can debate me on the semantics, but like these are themes I really worry about and I see them in my questions.

[00:32:50]And I had a girl um chase me down the hall >> after one of my classes. And now I I will answer most questions, but when I am answering questions in high school classes, and this is middle school, too, but this this stuff comes up more for high schoolers. So I say, "Okay, no personal questions. You can't ask me anything about myself. Um, as far as you're concerned, I don't have a body.

[00:33:11]That's not my job is to talk from my own personal experience as a professional.

[00:33:15]Um, this is not a howto class. So I'm not as a classroom educator in like leading schools, I'm not going to like sit here and tell you how to have sex.

[00:33:25]that's not what I'm doing. I'm telling you how to be safe. Um, your parents can teach you about pleasure and things and I'll touch on those topics, but I'm not going to talk about that here. That's not my lane. And then also, I don't define sex positions that you learned about from a friend or on the internet.

[00:33:42]And the reason for that is that usually, you know, it's because people have choice and I could never explain everything and things mean different things to other pe to different people.

[00:33:50]And also the language is difficult. you know, the language is never respectful when we talk about some of these positions and how they're how they're talked about. So, I got this question um from a a girl, you can always tell by the writing. Um and it was, "What is this position?" And it's um a same-sex female position that I know is glorified heavily in pornography. Um >> scissoring.

[00:34:15]>> Scissoring. Yep. And um you know and again like this is something that people do enjoy in respectful relationships in caring partnerships um in consensual interactions but it's been something that has been glorified and normalized by pornography. And when that happens then I get this I get this girl who chases me down the hall and she says you didn't answer my question.

[00:34:39]And and it's very unusual for somebody to you know look at me face to face about an anonymous question. you might imagine. She's chasing me down the hall.

[00:34:47]She's like, "You didn't answer my question." She's with her friend. And I said, "What was your what was your question?" And she said, "It was about scissoring." And I said, "Yeah, you know, I don't define sex positions." And because it was what is scissoring? And she looks at me and she says, "But my boyfriend wants me to do it with another girl for him and I don't know what it is."

[00:35:08]So, you know, look, like relationships take all different forms, right? like and potentially that would be something that was interested to her.

[00:35:18]But what is of concern to me is that there's pressure there for her that >> it wasn't her idea. It was brought to her.

[00:35:25]>> It was brought to her. And it's also, you know, that's that's a sophisticated, you know, let's talk about some sophisticated relationship dynamics. You know, I don't want to, you know, look, I I would say there are certain things that people need to consider later in their life. I'm concerned that like that that students are emboldened >> at this young age to ask for that and I think that their partners need to understand how to talk about that. So >> those are you know I can look at the research the research came out I was seeing all these questions and then all the research came out about like how like porn is bad for teenagers and I was like yeah I know I'm answering their questions in class all the time.

[00:36:03]>> Well I think and I think that that's and that was the point. So, you know, I was a I was a latecomer to pornography. I I hadn't seen it. I didn't know what it is. I'm not going to sit here and lie and say that I don't watch pornography because I do. I've been married for 22 years. My husband and I will watch occasionally together, but it's a consensual activity that we choose to partake in as middle-aged individuals, >> right?

[00:36:29]>> So, I know the dynamic. I know what we're doing. We're in couples counseling. Nobody's doing anything behind anybody's back. But when you if if I were to sit there and watch this with the eyes of a 16 or 17 year old like cuz I cuz I don't have that experience. I didn't have that. I didn't do that. I didn't I w It's It just blows my mind because, you know, I don't think I really matured until well into my 30s.

[00:37:02]>> Yeah. Yeah. So to have look to be looking at this at that age cuz I do think like you said like I think that there's a time and a place for it and obviously if you're in a in a healthy committed relationship and that's an activity that you want to do with your person or whatever like great. Uh same to go with positions or what you're comfortable with. But when you when you start to really peel back the layers here and you're talking about a kid chasing you down the hall to ask a question where she's been pressured by her boyfriend at let's say 16 years old.

[00:37:32]I'm just throwing that out there. It's my assumption. She was 16 17.

[00:37:36]>> 16 17. Yeah.

[00:37:37]>> Yeah. That just completely the dynamic there is like [ __ ] man. This is the stuff that is happening. And I'm not blind to it. Obviously, I have three teenagers, so I know that this is the stuff that's happening. But as a parent, I think to Tiffany's point, I think we kind of feel like we've been bulldozed, like what, you know, our hands are up in the air, like what are we doing? What do we do now?

[00:38:01]>> Yeah. So, I think that's a really common feeling, but I think that feeling, you know, I always say to parents because I talk to thousands of parents every year in classrooms, face to face, um, at my at schools that bring me in. And you I'm like look like there was a generation of parents who felt completely bulldozed by Elvis and this is our version and it is it's very complex and it's very scary but parents through the ages always feel some version of this and it we there's arguments for why we may be feeling it more. It's terrifying. Um, and however, there is also a toolkit and having these just factual conversations, talking to kids younger about, you know, how do we navigate this stuff and how do we understand personal boundaries? How do we understand? How do we tap in and figure out, you know, okay, you're chasing your sex ed teacher down the hallway to ask about this question that your boyfriend is pressuring you to do something like, you know, obviously her mom didn't really wouldn't have known that that was happening. Um, but you know, the these are the conversations we can have. Now, there's a toolkit for it, which is to go back to your question about my launch. I'm launching Kimberly Wolf's Love Class soon. And what it is is it's a course for parents to have these conversations.

[00:39:21]It's the information that you need to be informed enough and even overly like fully informed, but you can pick and choose to be able to land these conversations in the in the small moments and in the big moments with your teenagers. And then if parents want to, they can buy the teen track and the teenagers can run through my class just the way that I do it in school.

[00:39:46]and they can get all of that information. So, if you're a parent who doesn't have sexed available through a school for your kid or you're not pleased with how they're doing it or you want them to have a little extra, then you can also buy my course for kids.

[00:40:00]Now, currently, um you can only buy the teen course if you also buy the parent course because I can't talk to your kid if you don't know how to talk to them too because I'm not just going to send them out with this information, right?

[00:40:11]So, it's a bundle and it has some homework for parents and you know people can know I can't keep parents accountable. You can watch my you can go through my course or you cannot. What I can promise is that this course is preparing these kids to think critically about the information they're taking in.

[00:40:27]And that is one of the most important skills that we can give them now. And you know, >> so is it workbook style? like they're going through and they're actually answering questions and and doing quote unquote homework, >> right? So, there's going to be lessons.

[00:40:43]There's lessons on everything from relationship green flags to relationship red flags to STDs and how to talk about them to protective methods including abstinence. Um, I love it. The kids are like, "You're a sex ed teacher. Why are you talking to us about abstinence?" And I'm like, well, it's the only way to, you know, prevent you guys from encountering these risks that you may not want to undertake. And also, it's the only way to talk about all these questions that the boys are asking me now, which is a whole other category, which is like, how do I know I have consent? Because they're so worried about getting caught in a consent miscommunication.

[00:41:15]>> And I'm like, we start with abstinence because that's the only way to stay out of it. If you're going to be doing this stuff, there's some risk. Now, there's >> What do you think? Sorry to interrupt.

[00:41:23]What do you think about the college?

[00:41:27]This is happening a ton in probably I would assume high school and college where these um men, they're, you know, I call them boys, they're not boys anymore, right? They're 17, 18 year old men, 19-year-old men. They're having their girlfriends or women video record consent.

[00:41:48]>> Look, they ask me about that all the time. There's been apps over time and they change and grow and, you know, they change. So, I don't always I don't draw on like a specific app. I don't keep up with that. and they are video recording.

[00:41:59]Look, I mean it's a real thing and I think that you know it's very delicate topic but just if anybody wants to take issue with any anything I'm saying just remember that I was a gender studies major in college. I wrote a book for men and I I teach sex ed to thousands of kids every year. So there's ways to read into this. My honest opinion is that this these questions about consent from teenage boys have popped up more for me over the past 10 years increasingly. How do I know I have consent? Do I have to have my girlfriend sign something? Do I have to video consent? Are there apps?

[00:42:36]All these questions. There's been more now that is, you know, we and we can look at the research, but you know, it's concurrent with the Me Too movement and times up right now. That's a really important move. Those are really important social movements because people who have been sexually assaulted need to be believed. There need to be resources. We need to do more prevention obviously.

[00:42:56]However, the flip side of it is that there has been language that has been co-opted. Um, young people are um empowered by technology in ways that are not beneficial to healthy, loving relationships. And so what these boys are feeling and and it's mostly boys, is that even the ones who are trying to do the right thing, which they do, they want to do the right thing. You should hear me talk about, you should see me talking about consent. You can hear a pin drop. Consent and pornography, the boys in my classrooms, I don't care if I've got like the captain of the football team or like the captain of whatever, like, you know, the quiet ones, the loud ones, the cool ones, the ones that are, you know, doing their own thing, whatever. or however we want to label teenagers, every single kid, especially the boys, and I pay attention to this, they they are they want to do the right thing, right? And they're worried because they're like, you know, anybody could falsely falsely accuse me. And if we talk in the in kind of like the whispers with school counselors, like they're like, "Yeah, I mean, I talked to this kid like changed her mind. Now she's saying that there was no consent after the fact." And like so what I tell the boys and what I tell the girls I tell this to everybody but that that question comes from the boys is how do I know I have consent? What I tell them is I'm like look here's the deal. We know that hookup culture is alive and well and people are going to hook up with people they're going to kiss people they're going to hook up with do whatever right let me tell you what if you want to know that you have consent you need to be in a loving caring partnership with someone you know trust and care about. And that is how we really, you know, are going to derisk this. Now, this isn't to shame people who are not into relationships. Many people just want to do hookup culture, but but that is that's riskier and they need to just understand that practically.

[00:44:54]Meredith, what >> I can Meredith, I mean, I know you well enough. Like, I can come to your house, talk to your kids about this. I'd be happy to.

[00:45:03]>> It's so funny.

[00:45:06]>> No, I thought I just I didn't know you were dead.

[00:45:10]>> And it was funny watching you like a bird just >> keep going and going and going and going. But I do pause on purpose because this is I mean, this is my bread and butter. I think this stuff is so important. So, I could just keep going.

[00:45:21]I can but that I was done with that point for now.

[00:45:24]>> Yeah. No, it's I look I can't When does it When does your love class launch?

[00:45:29]>> Um we are aiming for the end of September. We're just putting the final touches and what when the kids go through the course, you know, there's not there's going to be journal reflection and stuff for parents. When the kids go through the course, there's going to be a lot of different like review question and answer, some journaling and notes they can print out.

[00:45:45]And then we're also going to do downloads that they can just put on their phone. Um, one of the things that I, you know, repeatedly said is so important to me is helping them understand how to communicate about these things. I always tell them, I'm like, I could teach you about the births and bees all day, that's easy for me.

[00:45:58]You want to hear me talk about body parts and like how penises work and where sperm goes and like how what the vulva is and where tampons go and where the anus is and whatever, like fine, I can talk to you about that. I'm like, if I don't tell you how to have these conversations, if I don't start by explaining to you how these conversations feel and how difficult they can feel and what can make them easier and then also give you the words and I've taught you absolutely nothing.

[00:46:20]So, one of the things we're going to do is make sure these kids have downloads so that you know, I don't know if they like run in the bathroom and they're like, "Okay, I have I know I have to ask something about STDs or I know I have to ask something about consent here, like what are my sound bites?" They'll be able to like just look them up on their phone.

[00:46:34]>> I Very cool. I think it's great. I like when I when I you know first saw your stuff and was you know you some you know you popped up on my my Instagram feed.

[00:46:46]Uh I I think it's great. I you know I don't personally have a huge issue or roadblock with talking about this with my kids and I think that's just the type of person that I am. I like I I will openly share probably way more than they want to hear or know. But I do think that that's how I can get them to communicate and how I open up that line of communication uh with them and and the importance of you know these are all nuanced conversations. None of this is really black and white because you, you know, there's feelings attached to this and it really brings things to a different level and it's not the same relationship that it was before because you did XYZ now and you know all of this is comes into play and so I think it's great. I can't wait um to see your class and share about it and and talk to to parents about it because this isn't this is you know I never had a a a talk my parents never talked to me about anything. They just said don't do that.

[00:47:48]Don't do those things.

[00:47:51]>> My mom told me not to let the boys touch my boobies because she didn't want me to come home pregnant. And I was like mom I got it. Like I already read the book.

[00:47:58]Like you're late anyway but thank you so much. I know you're trying. If you can get pregnant from booby touching.

[00:48:04]>> I know.

[00:48:06]>> Damn.

[00:48:06]>> Meredith, do you remember me telling you about how I learned about the birds and the bees?

[00:48:11]>> Yes.

[00:48:12]>> Tell me.

[00:48:13]>> My mom, >> you want to end on that story, Tith?

[00:48:16]>> My mom had this sweet, sweet video that she got. I don't know if she bought it or rented it or what, but it was a cartoon and it was a sex education cartoon. And so it showed like cartoon images of the mom and dad in the shower doing it, like in the bed doing it, like all these places and stuff. And I remember after it was over, my mom's like, "Any questions?" And I'm like, "Fucking no, dude. That was that was a lot." And then I invited all the neighborhood kids over to come watch the video, which in hindsight is messed up because maybe they weren't ready. And I feel very bad about that. But I also feel like if I had to see it, so did my friend Sabrina. So, >> right.

[00:49:01]>> Um, yeah, my mom would let me bring neighborhood kids around to educate them. We were kind of like a DIY sex education house, which is so cre like the more I talk about it, it's so weird, dude. Cuz I have vivid memories of other kids coming over to watch it and us laughing about it. Mhm.

[00:49:19]>> I love how you probably had like a book and you're like, "Okay, well, it's Suz's day to watch the video." So, why don't you come on in, Suz? Get the popcorn.

[00:49:28]>> Do you know how mad I would be now that I'm a mom? Like, if if Chloe's like, "Yeah, I went over to Becky's house and got to watch a a video that was enlightening mother. Would you like to discuss it?"

[00:49:39]>> Some cartoon porn.

[00:49:41]>> Yeah, it was very weird.

[00:49:43]>> The antidote to that now, which we know, but and that's that doesn't strike me as super weird. Like, that makes perfect sense to me. So what we tell parents now is like like you have to have the conversation. You have to do what you think your kid is ready for. Now also you have to be mindful of if your kid is ready, it's time to have some kind of conversation or start opening up these lines of communication. Um if you're not ready but your kid is, then you need to like get ready because you don't want your kid looking for that information not from you. And then it's very simple.

[00:50:10]You just say look >> I'm going to break it down for you but like we're not going to talk about this with other kids at school. their parents have a way of talking to them about this and this is stuff that we keep between us right now. Like we're not going to be the ones who tell everybody about this very sensitive stuff.

[00:50:25]>> Yeah.

[00:50:26]>> All right. So, where can everybody find you?

[00:50:29]>> So, you can find me on Instagram, sex education for parents. And I always appreciate follows and shoutouts because because of the nature of my content, I am often accidentally flagged for being inappropriate. And then I have to and then my account gets kind of hidden from people for a second and then at least I'm able to unlock it at the back and they always tell me like we got you. But I do get flagged from time to time because AI is really strong and really smart and they are keeping you know bad stuff off the internet but they're also sometimes flagging me. So um you can find me at sex education for parents.

[00:51:03]You can also find me and if you look on my posts, you can comment download my freebies and my you can comment convos and get my 12 conversations to start with your teenager and that will automatically make sure that you get ensure that you get updates on my course which will include pre-launch discounts.

[00:51:21]Um, so yeah, and I'll give you guys a code for this podcast eventually so that you know your listeners can get a little gift from this.

[00:51:28]>> Well, when when it launches, um, we'll have you back on because what I was some people were saying in the comments, they were asking for us to bring you back on where we just collect a list of questions from the parents and you just rapid fire answer them.

[00:51:42]>> My superpower. And I would be delighted to do that for you in real time. People are always like, "Do you need to like review these and then look them up?" And I'm like, "No, like you need parents need to understand that I can come up with the answer and so can they."

[00:51:55]>> Okay. So then what we'll do maybe is when we have you back on to, you know, for the launch of your course, I'll put it out to the supporter groups and to the Patreon and say if you have any questions or you can ask the question in the live and then that way we can just sort of rapid fire ask.

[00:52:10]>> 100%. I would love to do that.

[00:52:11]>> Okay, great. Well, that's awesome. Well, thank you so much for um hanging out with us and um everybody else, we'll see you next week. So, join us next time for another episode of Take It or Leave It.

[00:52:23]Thank you so much, Kimmy. This is an adviceish podcast hosted by two struggling moms who have no idea what we're doing.

[00:52:34]>> Hold on one second.

[00:52:35]>> Okay, cool.

[00:52:37]>> Sorry. I'm so sorry. Dave just texted.

[00:52:40]>> First time in seven years I've had to do it all by myself.

[00:52:44]>> Okay, just come. Your tits. You don't want to get pregnant. Yeah.

[00:52:48]>> All right. Dave said he's listening, but he's behind and he wants to ask a follow-up question about pornography.

[00:52:54]>> Yeah.

[00:52:55]>> How has the creation of social networks like Only Fans affected kids outlooks on porn, sex, and their desire to aspire to something like that because it has turned into just another social media network and a part of that something that is their everyday lives.

[00:53:16]Oh, absolutely. So, we know that you the creation of social media has created generations of performers and creators.

[00:53:27]This is part of the impact that porn is having in general, pornography, is that they're going through the actions. It's not it's like, oh, sex looks like this and I do sex like these people. This is how I do sex. Like, it's not like this is connective. I'm talking to my partner. this is what feels good to both of us. This is about an expression of care and and I'm that's more of a relational context, but even in hookups, it should be caring. You know, there should be, you know, hopefully consent and caring, right? That's what we want when it comes to platforms like Only Fans that are normalizing this type of content. That's what I'm talking about is the pornification of our culture. And >> you know, there's something to be said for the way that Only Fans began. And I, you know, I'm not I haven't spent any time on only fans, but I've read extensively about Only Fans and Only Fans comes up in my line of work a lot.

[00:54:20]And, you know, Only Fans, you know, has empowered a lot of women to actually benefit from their sexuality in a real way and in a way that is commodified that benefits them where they're like, "Fine, like, I'm beautiful and I'm sexy and I want to take pictures of myself and sell that, you know?" And a lot of people have done really, really well.

[00:54:41]And you know again like in my study of you know the history of gender you know that there is something empowering about that right but I think that there's something to be said for healthy sexuality and we want to make sure that if people are ultimately if that's the ultimate goal if they want to be selling that like it's like we said you know if you're an adult and you have some perspective and you have some critical thinking skills and some experience like and you're like Hey, you know what? This this seems like a reasonable business model for me. That's one thing. But when you're a teenage girl, um you know, those are particularly the ones I would think of that are like aspiring to be these only fans people.

[00:55:23]When you're an only when you're a teenage girl and you're just your body is changing, you are more and more aware of the ways in which you're sexualized.

[00:55:32]You're stepping into your power. you know, young women are incredibly like sexual beings as as we all are in our teen years, right? And I think that that's the concern I would say is like look, only fans like yeah, that might be a reasonable business model for some people, but my I do I am concerned for people in their formative years experiencing the pornification of their world. Yeah, it's such a that's such a gosh because there you know my stance on on only Only Fans is is is pretty much what you were saying in the beginning like if this is what you want to do and you enjoy uh making money in this fashion and it is a business model that you are having a ton of success with and you fully believe that you're not going to regret this choice in 5 10 15 years like absolutely more power to you. like it's your body, it's your choice, you can do these things. Um, but then I see some of these, you know, it it just it's like it every time you think it's jumped the shark, it just jumps >> higher, you know, like you see these, you know, these girls, women who um are like, I'm on the 500 men challenge in 24 hours and the one girl woman, sorry, ended up in the hospital for 3 days after. And it's like what was the po what was your point behind this challenge? Like I'm trying to I'm trying to be on your side and be like this is something that's great if this is what you want to be doing and then these things happen and you're trying to understand what was the point of what you were doing and was it was that simply just to make the most amount of money because this video is going to go so insanely viral or your account is going to go so insanely viral. And I guess if that's what it is, then okay.

[00:57:25]But that is being w I mean, you can't get away. You don't have to be on Only Fans to see that happening because that's being covered by people you um US Weekly, >> Yahoo, it's everywhere, >> right? That's what I'm saying is that themes and these conversations that used to be happening in the shadows, which you know, look, like no shame, right?

[00:57:46]Like I think this stuff, you know, sunlight on these issues is really important, right? But like and people everybody gets to do their own thing, right? Like no shame. People have especially when it comes to sexuality, people have different preferences. They have different orientations. They have different identities. Like no shame, right?

[00:58:04]However, and >> let's make sure that we are giving young people the tools to tap into themselves, their own values, their own true self, and make sure that like if and when they make these decisions, it's because that's part of what actually makes them feel good. And when we talk, you know, to go back, Tiffany to your question about like, do they actually want to hear from us? the I always say, and this is in my book, and I love talking about my book because who would I be if I wasn't talking about my book all the time, but is they may not seem like they're listening to you in their teenage years, but they can hear you.

[00:58:45]And what we know is that the more we talk to them, the more we show up, even if we feel like we're not getting through, the more likely they are to come back and internalize the best of what we give them when their brains are fully developed in their 20s and 30s and 40s, right? And so that's what we really want to be a backboard for is like, look, we can't control everything. It's terrifying. Some of this stuff is terrifying. Um, I once heard Lady Gaga speak and she just very simply was like, you know, social media is the the toilet of the internet. Um, you know, there are some things and that's what we're talking about. It's not all bad, right?

[00:59:22]Like a lot of it's really great like what we're doing here. And I I love using social media for good. But what we want is we want kids to understand the world around them, which has always been our job as parents. I always say my job is to love you, keep you safe, and teach you about the world. Um, my friend shared the first two parts of that and I added teach you about the world to mine.

[00:59:42]Um, and that's our job. We're not going to be able to control Meredith, you said this to me so poignantly, like we can't control their decisions, but we got to make sure that they're prepared to make the right ones the best that we can.

[00:59:53]>> Yeah, we can't control their decisions.

[00:59:55]I have to keep reminding myself that, especially as they get older and just start leaving like bunch of [ __ ] >> and having sex.

[01:00:03]>> Tiffany, a way like they will find a way. Like parents are like, you know, I have parents all the time. I I am honored to be a sex ed teacher who's invited to speak to very diverse political, religious, cultural parent communities. And I have plenty of parents who are like, "But I'm going to tell them they're not allowed to have it." I'm like, totally fine. Tell them that they can't have sex or that you don't appreciate or that you don't approve of that. That's okay for them to know and why. And also, >> you need to let them know >> that if they ever do not make a decision, like if they ever make a decision they think you're not going to approve of, they can still come to you if they need help. Like that's what you really want.

[01:00:43]>> I see it that that's the part where it gets really dicey because if you're saying don't ever do this.

[01:00:50]>> They're not going to believe that they can come to you.

[01:00:53]>> I believe >> when they've done it. Well, so I think that, you know, parents again have to know their kids. And there's going to be plenty of parents who I fully understand why they would say you shouldn't do this, you shouldn't do this till you're married. And I think that it's okay for parents to say that. It is okay to share your values.

[01:01:11]>> But you need to know that if you draw a hard line like that, that exactly as you said that they will a find a way if they want to do it anyway, and b they will not come to you if they're in trouble.

[01:01:23]And so the the solution is or one strategy is to say I don't believe that you should do this. But what I also know is that there may come a time where you don't listen to my advice. And if you're ever in trouble, I would never be so upset or angry or disappointed that I wouldn't want to help you with anything that you needed.

[01:01:45]>> Yeah. Yeah. I always preface. I say this is not something I would do, but I am not you. You are not me. And so if you choose to do so, uh, I, you know, I'm I'm still going to show up if [ __ ] goes sideways.

[01:01:59]>> Like I just clearly I make that state like I I tattooed on my chest never say never because the second that I say that, you know, never never is they're going to go nevering all over the place, >> right?

[01:02:11]>> And they're never they're going to never right in your face.

[01:02:14]>> Yeah. They're going to never so hard.

[01:02:16]>> So hard. So, well, thank you so much.

[01:02:18]Um, and I'm glad we got those last couple of questions in there because I think that they were really important.

[01:02:22]But we'll have you back on. We appreciate it. Everybody go follow uh Kimberly Wolf, uh, Sex Education for Parents over on the gram. And, um, I know that there's going to be a ton of parents here that are waiting for that love class to get that for themselves and their kids. Um, but that's right.

[01:02:38]So, join us next week for another episode of Take It.

[01:02:44]Come on, [ __ ] or leave it. An adviceish podcast hosted by two struggling moms >> who have no idea what we're doing. We'll see you guys next week. Love you. Bye.

[01:02:57]>> All right.

[01:03:00]>> So awesome. I just so disagree with your We have no idea what we're doing. You know exactly what you're doing. It's so brilliant.

[01:03:06]>> Okay, hang on. I gotta hit >> Thank you.

[01:03:08]>> Thank you so much for coming on. No, thanks for your questions and I hope I answered them and