OnlyFans Model's Plea, Teacher Arrested Over Snapchat Message, and Kevin Trudeau on Embracing Prison

Ajouté : 2026-05-14

[00:00:05]Hello everyone and welcome to Positively Legal. I'm Mark Iglar, a veteran defense attorney, former prosecutor, adjunct law professor. I know Janna wants me to speed this up, so I won't mention that.

[00:00:18]I'm an avid pickleball player also. And my lovely co-host, her name is >> Janna Spilbore, and I wore your wall today, Mark. I'm also a criminal defense attorney and founder of Jonas Bilvore Law. Might I add Midnight Shopper and Cat Whisperer to my many >> You may. You may do that. Listen, I'm very excited about today's show, John.

[00:00:42]We got some really cool stories to talk about and someone great to interview on Positively Legal. Today, we're going to talk about a the case of an Only Fans creator who was charged with the death of one of her clients who, like you, is into fetish. Yes. No. No. Okay. And we'll also examine the story of a teacher who was arrested for merely posting something on her Snapchat.

[00:01:06]>> Merely.

[00:01:07]>> Merely. We'll we'll discuss what exactly she posted. We call that a tease in the industry. What do you have, Janna?

[00:01:13]>> Well, later in our second segment, we h I'm so excited about this. We have a New York Times best-selling author and entrepreneur Kevin Trudeau who's going to be joining us to share his story. The highs, the lows, and how we can all take control of our health, wealth, and freedom.

[00:01:31]>> Yes, the famous infomercial guy. I remember 3 in the morning listening to some of his pitches. I can't wait to hear about what he's been up to. And uh Janna, your favorite part of the show, you get to metaphorically drink, right?

[00:01:44]It's happy hour. Let's go, baby. Here we go. Let's drink. Come on. Come on. What do you got?

[00:01:49]>> Oh, that's what you Okay, I got this.

[00:01:51]Um, okay. So, we both kind of showed up here today. Mark, forgive me because I know you you get into your spiritual side and sanctity.

[00:02:01]>> I certainly try.

[00:02:02]>> We both kind of showed up here today a little bit drained, shall we say?

[00:02:06]>> Yes. Yes.

[00:02:07]>> Why? Why?

[00:02:08]>> Well, because we don't sit around wearing makeup waiting for the show all day. We actually work, do we not?

[00:02:13]>> No. Oh, well, I do both. I do both. a little >> Well, how was your day? Tell us what Give a little taste to the audience as to what you actually did as a criminal defense attorney.

[00:02:23]>> I Okay, so I have to complain about something and >> I'm going to preface this by saying I'm not complaining about a client and even if I wanted to, we really can't, right, Mark? Because we can't disclose any sort of client confidence or anything. We can complain about cases, don't get me wrong.

[00:02:39]>> Change the names and just, you know, keep it real. Go ahead.

[00:02:42]>> But this is a little different. I want to know if you've ever experienced it.

[00:02:45]So, so I have a client, >> yes, >> who has a parent. The client is an adult. The client is such an adult that the client has kids of her own.

[00:02:56]>> Mhm.

[00:02:57]>> Um, but the client has a parent who routinely emails the office pretending to be the client.

[00:03:06]>> Oh, pretending.

[00:03:09]>> Pretending to be the client.

[00:03:11]>> You lost me at pretending. Of course, they always call, they email, and I'm like, listen, you're not the client if he's okay with it, right? But pretending to be >> pretending to be the client and screwing up everything that >> we are doing. That's a problem.

[00:03:29]>> It's It is a problem. It is a problem.

[00:03:32]>> I say you take that client to a soccer game, show them what boundaries are.

[00:03:37]>> No.

[00:03:38]>> What about or or a pickle ball match.

[00:03:40]Yeah. So it really and you know what it I want to say that some days I wake up right we come to the office and I feel like so grateful and so happy that I get to do what I do every day and then there are days when I show up and I'm like the soul is just being sucked out every opportunity and today was one of those soul sucking so unnecessary >> listen you know when that'll stop that'll stop when you're in a coma you're dead or you finally become a sociopath human beings go through that it's okay to have those days. I had one of those days today. I'm challenged >> constantly. We fight for a living, Janna. It's exhausting. Nobody says, "Here's money, Mark. Come in second place. It's okay." They want a win. And it's draining. It just is. And then the self-imposed stuff, it's too much.

[00:04:31]Today, I've been preparing all day for a deposition that I'm taking tomorrow. We get those here in Florida where we get to actually bring in the alleged victim.

[00:04:39]In this case, it's the Antonio Brown case. And that victim I will be deposing tomorrow at 10:00 a.m. And I ain't winging it. I am prepared. It is We have a stand your ground hearing that's set in a couple months. That deposition is going to be key. So, I've been preparing for that. It's been a little stressful.

[00:04:55]Um, what else? Um, also I actually have a stand your ground hearing going tomorrow on a teenager. I mentioned it on our last uh podcast. I'm gonna play the video next next time. Next, remind me. I will play the actual video. I just want the stand your ground hearing to go down. Um, but I've been preparing all day for it. And it's exhausting. It's reading every line of every report and every deposition and carefully crafting your cross-examination of the alleged victims. It's exhausting.

[00:05:21]>> Now, to me, that's fun.

[00:05:23]>> Really, >> that is fun. Like, that I would have a great day if that's what I were doing today instead of fielding fake emails from a client's father.

[00:05:31]>> Got it. Got it. You know what's You know what's also fun talking about people who are into fetish.

[00:05:38]>> Can >> Can we talk about >> Are you going to share? Are you going to share?

[00:05:41]>> No. No. I'm going to let you share. You tell us.

[00:05:43]>> All right. I'm going to go on record saying I must be really boring because I don't have any fetishes. This fetish that we're going to be discussing this case that happened involving a fetish actually makes me viscerally sick to think about. But okay. So, >> here we go. Only fans. I'm sure I'm sure you're on there quite a lot, right? You got credit card. Excuse me. Credit card.

[00:06:02]Okay. No. All right. Maybe no. No.

[00:06:05]Definitely. Maybe. All right. Go. No.

[00:06:06]Go.

[00:06:07]>> But people make money off often. And I guess you can >> millions >> kind of cleanly do it. I don't know. I I don't know. I've never >> explain to them what it is. Some people do not know what Only Fans.

[00:06:17]>> What I believe Only Fans is to be is a sort of a subscription website where you pay money.

[00:06:23]>> Yes.

[00:06:23]>> To watch somebody do something. Yes. And it can be sexual, but it doesn't have to be. From my understanding, it can >> most of the time it is. I mean, >> it could be but it could be weird stuff.

[00:06:33]Yes. Like if somebody has a foot fetish, you can get paid to show your feet or something.

[00:06:38]>> And they're making millions. Co launched the career of these people. Mill. I have a friend who does just that. He represents Only Fans.

[00:06:48]>> Oh, I was going to say you have a friend who just does Only Fans. I'm be like, Mark, >> I probably do as well. You >> playing pickle ball? like where are you when you're on that court? Come on.

[00:06:57]>> All right. So, so how did this lead to a homicide? How does how do we get there?

[00:07:01]>> So, here's the problem. And some of our viewers might remember we did talk about this case before the plea a while back on MK True Crime. So, the defendant's name is Michaela Ryers Dam. I'm probably mispronouncing that even though we just went over it, right?

[00:07:15]>> She had a client, right? She was an Only Fans model. She had a client, >> she Michael Dale, >> who wanted her to do some pretty sick and kinky things, including wrapping his head in plastic wrap, gluing his eyes shut with gorilla glue.

[00:07:37]>> I mean, who hasn't? I mean, come on.

[00:07:39]Really? A little judgy. Little judgy on your part.

[00:07:42]>> Friday night, you're just trying to, you know, blow off some steam. um glue women's shoes onto his feet. So, long story short, the part that really did him in is she did this. She wrapped his head >> at his request >> in plastic wrap at his request to the point where he suffocated to death.

[00:08:02]>> Oh.

[00:08:04]>> Yeah. So, >> so the police obviously were were called. They see the bag over this guy's head, duct tape over his mouth, uh plastic wrap shrouding all of them, and they obviously determined this to be a homicide. Go figure. And um she was the main culprit. So what happened here was and I think part of her defense was he wanted me to do this. So >> yes, >> what's the problem?

[00:08:32]>> Is that a good defense to this?

[00:08:34]>> There were there were some text. We actually have a ST I think that has some text messages between the defendant and the victim. Can we play S one?

[00:08:44]>> Uh the nature of it was uh Mr. Dale asking M. Ryers Dam to do certain things for him. He was asking her to buy boots and glue them on his feet with Gorilla Glue.

[00:09:00]He was asking her to buy dildos and glue them in his mouth.

[00:09:05]And he also asked her to pours of glue into his eyes to glue them shut >> so that she was the last girl that he would ever see.

[00:09:16]>> And based on these text messages, were you able to tell uh whether Mr. Dale was offering money in exchange for these acts?

[00:09:28]>> Yeah. How much?

[00:09:28]>> Yes, I believe he was going to offer some money. I don't remember how much at this time.

[00:09:34]Oh, Judge J.

[00:09:35]>> $1,000.

[00:09:37]11,000.

[00:09:38]>> Judge Janna moved to dismiss the case.

[00:09:40]He paid her to do this and [ __ ] happens.

[00:09:42]Come on, Judge Janna. No, >> you got to be you got to be some kind of idiot to basically >> to make that argument or to do that?

[00:09:50]>> No. To esphyxiate somebody for any amount of money just because they told you to. And the prosecution also agreed because our defendant signed up to do four years in custody in exchange for a guilty plea to involuntary manslaughter.

[00:10:10]>> That's a reduction of the charge, right?

[00:10:12]That wasn't what she was originally >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's that's >> This is the bargain. This is the plea bargain, right? The lowest level of of manslaughter is typically involuntary, but I have issue like, was it really involuntary? I mean, that's kind of a gift, I think, to this defendant.

[00:10:28]>> You would have done more to her if you're the prosecutor. Yes.

[00:10:33]>> She wrapped plastic wrap around this guy's head for 11,000 bucks and choked him to death. Duct taped it. I mean, right.

[00:10:39]>> How involuntary is it? Like, >> she was doing it.

[00:10:43]>> Yeah.

[00:10:43]>> Sounds voluntary to me. I probably wouldn't have come off voluntary, >> but okay. I mean, listen, I I don't disagree with you. I I I just want to know where the line is, right? Um can can a man, if that's his thing, can he get choked a little bit? Now, I know we're not talking a little bit. We're talking about Saran Wrap, but where is the line? You know, the gorilla glue, he gets an infection. Is that on her? Like, what is her responsibility and what's his?

[00:11:07]>> So, let let's quickly listen to S, too, because apparently the victim had said, "I'm out. stop.

[00:11:15]>> Let's hear it.

[00:11:15]>> I can just hear him uh say, "Can we stop? I'll pay you certain amount more money to stop." And that's when I realized that it wasn't a friend. It was a prostitute or whatever you want to say.

[00:11:38]>> I mean, does stop really mean stop in a situation like that? I don't know. I don't know. When you're begging for your life, I'll pay you not to do what I told you to do. So, I live, you know, and there's a roommate in the house, by the way.

[00:11:53]>> No, I'm with you. That's why she pled.

[00:11:55]I'm throwing out devil's advocate here.

[00:11:57]You know that there's there's some of that begging and some of that stuff that goes on that needs to be ignored in some of those role plays. Not that I know. I I don't know that. I don't know that any >> I don't know that. How would I know that? I'm just saying maybe there would be. I don't know that. I wouldn't know.

[00:12:13]Stop. Stop. No, you don't mean that.

[00:12:15]>> Yeah. Well, no. Let's we'll stop. Stop with this story. So, she's going away.

[00:12:19]She's going to the clink for four years involuntary. Kind of a slap on the wrist.

[00:12:23]>> So, what's the lesson here, John? On positively legal. Let's give a lesson to our audience members. What can we learn from this?

[00:12:29]>> Uh, don't bring saran wrap on a date.

[00:12:33]>> What about gorilla glue? So, you're okay with the glue?

[00:12:35]>> Leave it at home? No. No. No. Not okay with that either. We got a student teacher who, you know, wants to spend the rest of her life educating our children. So, we start off very positively, right? A young gal just wanting to change the world, and I'm so happy about that.

[00:12:52]>> And she has a Snapchat account. That's not a problem either, right? You're okay with that? As they all do.

[00:12:58]>> She's a 22year-old teacher. This is a school in Washington. She's 22 years old. That's the age of my daughter. 22 years old. all about the Snapchat. The problem is, and let's let's show some video of what happened. The problem is what she put in there. Let's start with one of the sites where the officer has a conversation with her and kind of reveals to her what's going down. She denies things at first. Let's go ahead and play.

[00:13:24]>> You got a call about a snap. So, did you happen to make one today?

[00:13:28]>> I I did. Yeah.

[00:13:29]>> And what did you say in the snap?

[00:13:32]>> Um, I sent a lot of snaps back and forth. I don't know really what this is about.

[00:13:39]>> Okay. How about about school today?

[00:13:42]Anything about school today?

[00:13:44]>> Um I mean I mean I it's a lot about school.

[00:13:50]I don't know.

[00:13:51]>> So I I guess the other question then who are you sending them on your wall or whatever it's called or you send it to someone specifically?

[00:13:59]>> Um I didn't post anything today if that's what you're but no.

[00:14:03]>> Can we pause just for one second John?

[00:14:05]I'm dying to know something from you.

[00:14:06]Wait. And I I already know the answer. I could tell with you.

[00:14:09]>> Do you think she knows what she did wrong and she's denying it? I I I So funny. I know the answer. You are You're like a a book that I've read a million times. You think she's full of it?

[00:14:19]>> Really?

[00:14:20]>> But you know it, too.

[00:14:23]>> I don't know it. I don't know. I really don't know. I don't know. Am I that naive? Am I that naive? Let's keep going. I still am not so sure until he suggests it. You guys can put in the comments what you think up to this point and then as we go, let us know what you think. All right, go. Keep going.

[00:14:42]>> Send like snaps to like my roommate and my boyfriend. That's >> okay.

[00:14:46]>> How about did any of the kids kind of make you mad today?

[00:14:50]>> No.

[00:14:51]>> Nothing about your computer or anything like that?

[00:14:53]>> Oh.

[00:14:54]>> Um, they horrible. I was I had a lesson plan and one of the kids turned off my computer on my lesson plan and I was like, "Oh, >> dang." But that was I never get mad with the kids ever.

[00:15:07]>> Did Well, did you snap after that? Did you know? No.

[00:15:09]>> Okay. Yeah. Now she's holding back at She knows what she wrote.

[00:15:12]>> Mhm.

[00:15:14]>> Yeah. I mean, >> what? I'm so confused.

[00:15:17]>> Okay.

[00:15:18]>> She's not very confused.

[00:15:19]>> What I'll show you is the snap we >> Now I agree. She knows. She knew before >> that is you.

[00:15:25]>> Maybe she did.

[00:15:26]>> It's Snapchat. I snapped. It's Snapchat.

[00:15:28]>> All right, let's pause this. We're good with this one. Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Okay, so what did she post? You guys are ready. You stuck around. You want to see what she posted? I think we have it up there um for you to see, but I'm going to read it. Okay, this is important.

[00:15:42]I was halfway through my lesson plan and one of my students pressed the power button on my computer. Lesson plan is gone.

[00:15:52]chat. Do I shoot the child or just the whole school?

[00:15:58]Yikes. Yikes. Yikes. Do I shoot the child? Okay, you and I can definitely agree that was at a minimum dumb.

[00:16:08]>> Right. Right.

[00:16:11]>> Can we just start off where we both agree? I like when we agree, Janna.

[00:16:14]Okay.

[00:16:14]>> Okay. How far is it criminal? Is it criminal?

[00:16:20]>> You're asking me. Oh, I'm asking you >> a thousand%.

[00:16:24]>> Okay. Well, let's analyze it. Okay.

[00:16:27]>> All right. Doesn't it matter the intent?

[00:16:32]In other words, if it's 100% they need to investigate this and all claims like this, 100%.

[00:16:40]>> They don't know if somebody's making a joke or not. This day and age, we had a school shooting 15 minutes from my office here. There is no question. You got to investigate.

[00:16:47]>> You can't joke about that, Mark. I don't disagree with you. We're on the same page. Here's my question. So, that begins the investigation. Now, once you determine it is a joke, which is exactly what these officers believed after they spoke to her, what should they do at that point?

[00:17:09]>> The officers believed saying, "Should I shoot the kid or the whole school was just blowing off steam, >> right? Those are the facts. After the investigation, they learn that she's not a threat. She made a stupid joke to a couple of people in her Snapchat group.

[00:17:28]This is like a private little Snapchat group. The FBI apparently somehow got wind of it. I don't know if they're just, you know, >> Snapchats in her.

[00:17:37]>> There we go. Yeah. You say shoot. That's it. Right.

[00:17:40]>> Right.

[00:17:41]>> You mean dang, you're you're in trouble because you >> Let me ask you Let me Let me ask you something. So, let's suppose that I'm her, right? And I'm sitting there fidgeting in my seat and I didn't do anything wrong. And finally, it dawns on me that if I make it sound like I'm joking, these cops are going to let me go. So, I go, "What?

[00:18:00]I would never shoot a child or the whole school."

[00:18:04]>> Wait, those are not the fact John. The facts are you you know, you've watched you've watched the tape. You see that she made a stupid comment. The cops found that to be you don't take exception with that. You don't think she was actually going to harm someone? Do you? We can't move this thing along unless we get to that point.

[00:18:19]>> I don't know. I don't know in the moment. How do I know if in the moment what was going through her head?

[00:18:26]>> All right. Well, then that's a different story. I agree with you. If there's a question as to whether her intent was to do harm, okay, you're off to the races.

[00:18:35]You go to the clink. Do not pass. Go. In this case, however, to me and law enforcement, it was clear that she wrote something that she greatly regrets.

[00:18:46]>> She pleaded guilty to something.

[00:18:49]>> My question to you is, no, the case is still pending. No, she was charged with disorderly conduct, >> which could be charged as a felony or a misdemeanor. I understood it. They charged it as a misdemeanor because it lacked the felony intent. My question to you is, can't they use their discretion and not place her under arrest, which which terminates her dream of ever being a teacher, which likely was terminated the minute that she got caught for this with the school. They're going to put that on her permanent card, whatever, whatever. But did she need to be arrested? That's my question. That's my only question.

[00:19:22]>> All right. I want you to posit that question to a few parents in that of children in that school.

[00:19:31]>> And if the parents of children in that school think this immature 22year-old teacher who joked about shooting that child and shooting up the entire school, if they're okay with it, I'm okay with it.

[00:19:45]>> I'm not letting the parents decide. But anyway, we'll let you guys decide. I'd love to read your comments on this one.

[00:19:50]The final thing we're going to talk about today, right, we Janna and I love to watch movies.

[00:19:56]>> One of my favorite shows.

[00:19:57]>> Yeah. Go ahead. You you you set it up.

[00:19:59]Why are we doing this segment?

[00:20:00]>> No, this Oh, well, we're doing this segment because we like to examine Hollywood and then let you guys know if any such thing would ever occur. So, today we have a Better Call Saul clip, which I freaking loved that show. I wish I just loved that show. Um, you're going to have to tell us what clip we're going to be looking at today.

[00:20:23]>> They got it. It's a better call clip.

[00:20:24]They got it. Let's run it and let's talk about it after. Here we go.

[00:20:28]>> It's him, your client. Are you sure that's the person? There's no doubt in your mind. Take your time.

[00:20:35]>> I don't need time. That's him.

[00:20:38]>> Now, would you be surprised to learn, Mr. Harkness, that the person you just pointed to is not the defendant?

[00:20:45]>> What?

[00:20:46]>> My client is in the back of the courtroom. Mr. Siki, would you please stand up?

[00:20:50]>> Objection.

[00:20:50]>> Now, the person you IDed is named Hollis Early. He's a bartender down in Berlin.

[00:20:55]>> He has a very good alibi for the night in court.

[00:20:57]>> Your honor. Objection.

[00:20:59]>> Oh, Mr. Goodman. Really?

[00:21:02]>> You didn't recognize him either, your honor.

[00:21:04]>> All right.

[00:21:06]Settle.

[00:21:09]>> Janna, so entertaining. Would this happen in any courtroom that you're in?

[00:21:15]>> Why wouldn't you do it? Or would you >> uh it wouldn't happen and we might have chatted about this off air. Wouldn't happen in the courtrooms that I'm in because I'm in the Hudson Valley.

[00:21:28]They're small. The judges know your client. The judges know you. Probably wouldn't happen. Would I try it?

[00:21:36]>> I might try it.

[00:21:37]>> You would?

[00:21:38]>> I might. I might.

[00:21:39]>> So, let me set it up. Let me tell you why it's reality. In where I practice in South Florida, it's extremely rare for any of these judges to remember the face of a defendant, particularly because we wave their appearance anyway. So, most of them aren't even coming to court.

[00:21:54]Secondly, most of the time we're zooming. We're zooming anyway. So, judges aren't going, "Let me look in that tiny box at the face of the defendant, assuming they're even there."

[00:22:02]And none of my clients are there. So, it could totally happen.

[00:22:06]>> My question is, would we do something like that? I'm sure there's some rule that pro precludes it. I mean, some judge might be really pissed at that, right?

[00:22:14]>> And you don't want that. Yeah. So, we can't wave Well, we can only very rarely wave a client's appearance, by the way.

[00:22:20]So, there's a big difference between us and and you, >> but I think a judge felt duped by an attorney trying to pull that stunt, even if it were successful, that that would be worse than having a witness actually identify.

[00:22:34]>> I I agree. I think there's a problem.

[00:22:36]All right. Good discussion. I'm excited for block B. Let's talk about it.

[00:22:40]>> Oh my god, I am so excited about this.

[00:22:42]Okay, coming when we come back, we are going to be speaking with Kevin Trudeau.

[00:22:46]If you're saying to yourself, that name sounds familiar, then you were probably alive in the '9s when he was known as one of the biggest infomercial marketing gurus, wrote a ton of books, made a ton of money, and then something bad happened. But he's back, baby. And we're going to be talking to Kevin Trudeau when we come back just a couple of minutes.

[00:23:24]Welcome back to Positively Legal.

[00:23:27]Joining us now is New York Times best-selling author, entrepreneur, and host of the Kevin Trudeau Show, Kevin Trudeau. Before we officially say hello, I want to bring you down a little trip down memory lane. Take a look.

[00:23:44]>> You've seen Kevin as he hosts the everpresent television infomercial series, Vantage Point. But you may not know that Kevin is one of the most dynamic businessmen and entrepreneurs in American history. The Chicago Tribune deems him the king of infomercials.

[00:24:01]>> Buy the book. It's unconditionally guaranteed. If you have cancer, heart disease, acid reflux, asthma, arthritis, depression, attention deficit disorder, you name the disease. It's covered in here. Debt cures too. It's a brand new book which teaches you the secrets on how to get out of debt. If you have credit card debt, this will teach you how to lower your interest rates on your credit cards. You haven't introduced free money they don't want you to know about. It's streamlined and it's simple and it'll show you how to get money.

[00:24:27]>> A multi-millionaire. He is truly one of America's great success stories.

[00:24:33]>> Kevin, that was a nice trip down memory lane for me because I remember you being in my living room all the time, every day back in the 90s and and I think a lot of people listening to us will too.

[00:24:45]And I I want to start with pick up your story with with that. I mean, you are a best-selling author. you you seemed to burst onto the scene with uh these books promising cures and secrets that they didn't want you to know and people ate them up for good reason. And you sold millions of copies, over 50 million copies. You made a boatload of money and you were doing great. Let's start with that. How you how you started, how you burst onto the scene with all of this information that was so helpful to so many consumers. Well, I really had no uh, you know, plan in terms of writing books or marketing things like this. I was learning disabled when I was in school. I virtually flunked out of high school. I mean, I graduated. I got a diploma. I was tongue-tied and I stuttered stuttered. I couldn't communicate with people. My dad was a welder. I didn't come from a wealthy family. I was actually very lucky to meet a mentor when I was very young who was a wealthy person in a society of wealthy people. and he taught me a 40point algorithm on how to manifest. We didn't call it manifesting back then. We called it how to set goals and achieve them or how to build a fortune or how to create the life you want. So I learned this recipe if you will and I was a pretty good student. I actually followed the recipe and started becoming successful.

[00:26:06]I started uh you know working and starting businesses and in in direct marketing and and uh direct mail. But because of my issues, I had I had a terrible memory. When I met a guy who was a memory expert, I took his course and I thought, I everyone needs to improve their memory. And that was my first course that I sold on television, mega memory, how to improve uh your memory. We sold $450 million worth of memory improvement courses.

[00:26:33]>> But it wasn't a plan. It was like, "This worked for me. Oh my gosh, let me share it with my friends and family. It worked for them. Oh my gosh, this is something that everyone really needs as well. And that's how that perpetuated.

[00:26:46]>> How did you learn about marketing though? Like, okay, you learn, you know, certain things, but to become a marketing expert, how did you learn that?

[00:26:54]>> Yeah, back in the 70s, there was a few books being offered for sale. One was called The Lazy Man's Way to a Fortune by Joe Carbo. And another one was Seven Steps to Freedom: How to Escape the American Rat Race by a guy named Ben Suarez. Both taught direct mail. And I read those and ate it up by some other guys as well. And I learned how to write ad copy because I couldn't speak. I remember I was tongue-tied and stuttered. And I was so shy I couldn't even go into a room full of people. I was desperately afraid of rejection. So writing ad copy and writing ads was really something that I could do because I was behind the scenes. And I just gravitated toward that because I wanted to become successful. And back then there wasn't an internet. So direct mail or running little classified ads in newspapers was really a road for somebody who didn't have any money. You know, I'd saved up some money for my paper route uh and shoveling snow so I could actually buy some ads and and kind of build my business and pyramid the profits and that's how I got into marketing. I and I just had a knack for it.

[00:27:57]you do have a knack for it because I think one of the reasons why you sold so many books and why you solved so many problems is I love the sort of bad boy the cures they don't want you to know the secrets they don't want you to know and while you don't come out and say it that they right was the government or the they was big pharma and people were probably looking for alternatives to what they thought was mainstream ways to lose weight mainstream ways to supplement yourself and I I think that was very attractive to people and it had to be because you sold so many damn books, but at some point the government came and said, you know, the people love you, but us not so much. Can you talk a little bit about when you got on their radar? By them, I mean the government or the FTC, whoever else was trying to take you down eventually, and we'll get there. When did that begin? Yeah, it actually started if you remember a product called Hooked on Phonics 1800 ABCDEFG.

[00:28:58]And the reason Shawn Shanahan started that company is the Department of Education decided to take phonics out of the school system really to dumb down the kids. That's kind of the conspiracy theory, but you know, there's a lot of truth to that. So, they took phonics out of the school system and replaced it with the look C method so the kids really would have a hard time reading.

[00:29:16]So Sean said,"I going to offer a home study course on phonics." And I was really exposing the Department of Education for taking phonics out of the school system. Well, the government sued Sean Shanahan and bankrupted him and they sued me as well because we were exposing what was going on in government and they they didn't like people who have influence. You know, as you mentioned, I was on TV virtually every day. I had more impressions than anybody on television back in the 90s, including Oprah Winfrey. So, I was a major influencer and my book sold tens of millions of copies and even if people didn't read the books, they still watched the shows, which are all live shows. And and I was the first guy to basically say, "Hey, the pharmaceutical companies are publicly traded companies.

[00:30:00]Their goal is to keep you sick. They want you to to buy drugs. They don't want you healthy. Healthy people don't buy their product." There's a conflict of interest. I talked about fluoride in the water, high fructose corn syrup. I talked about ultrarocessed foods, talcum powder, if you put it on your skin would cause cancer. I was crucified by NBC.

[00:30:20]They said that's absolutely a lie. And of course now in they're the ones who are who are saying that it absolutely is true.

[00:30:27]>> So those were the that's the reason why the government came after me. The people that purchased the books, loved the books, they recommended to others. They were all New York Times bestsellers or number one New York Times bestsellers.

[00:30:38]And the results that people got were pretty uh pretty amazing.

[00:30:43]>> Yeah, absolutely. You you were identifying problems that everyday people were having and then you solve them with information that they didn't have access to prior to that. You're not going to sell 50 million copies of any book that isn't solving a problem.

[00:30:59]You're just not. Well, I want to ask though, were any of the claims at all misrepresentations or unsubstantiated like the FTC alleged?

[00:31:11]>> Yeah. Interesting. I just did a podcast in Beverly Hills last week and the gal on the podcast said, "Let me go to chat GPT and find out what claims you made."

[00:31:21]And she was like 28 of them. She said, "Talcum powder, you were right. High fructose corn syrup, you were right.

[00:31:26]fluoride in the water. Still debatable, but you're leaning toward that. You were right.

[00:31:31]>> Uh tra trampolines or mini rebounders where you jump up and down on the rebounder. Spectacular exercise. Back then they were crucifying me saying that it was dangerous to jump on a mini trampoline when I said that it was a good exercise for the body.

[00:31:44]>> And there's a list of she was rattling them off. So there really wasn't anything in there that I said. I said that listen, people have nutritional deficiencies. They need to basically address those nutritional deficiencies and they're putting toxins in their body. You know, I even quoted Dr. Herbert Lei who was the past director of the FDA and he's the one who said that people more people die from drugs, pharmaceutical prescribed drugs, than from the diseases they're being used to treat. And he pointed out that nobody died of acne, but people die from taking prescribed acne medication. Nobody dies from wrinkles on their forehead, but people die every year from getting Botox injections, which is botulism.

[00:32:26]>> So, I was pointing out things. I was pointing out things that that that that nobody dared talk about. I remember when I went on NBC with Matt Lowour, he was the big guy back then and Katie Kurrick.

[00:32:36]He said, "Listen, you can't talk about the drug companies. They're our biggest advertiser. So, just sell a lot of books, but leave the drug companies out of the conversation." And I don't remember the first question that he that Matt asked. But I remember my answer was pretty much like, Matt, that's not the question. The question is, why did you just tell me two minutes ago, don't talk about the drug companies because they're your biggest advertiser. That's the reason why I'm here and that's the reason why I bought this book because I'm saying things that nobody dared to say because there's too much money at stake.

[00:33:04]>> And of course, you know, uh, the per proverbial crap hit the fan.

[00:33:11]>> Yeah, it did. But you had a pretty good run before that happened. Yes. Unless was the government crawling up your butt, pardon me, like immediately after you started publishing these books or did it take a while? What was the thing that sparked their interest? And how did they let you know? Like they knocked on your door, they send you a registered letter. What did they do to let you know that hey, >> it was pretty fascinating.

[00:33:35]I was offering the mega memory home study course which was very successful and people absolutely loved it to to this day. I cannot walk anywhere any restaurant where somebody won't come up to me and said you're the memory guy. I bought your memory course back in the 90s and I loved it and so forth and so on. I hear that all the time. So that in that course I was exposing the department of education. I was exposing Ridlinin. I said, 'You know, it's crazy that in schools they have meds being passed out to the children like it's candy and they're trying to get all these kids on AD medication or ADHD medication as well as uh you know putting fluoride in the water and taking phonics out of the school. That was the one that got the heat. And I got the phone call from the politicians via the lobbyists to say, "Look, you need to stop saying this and you need to make some payments to the politicians, via the lobbyists, otherwise you're going to get in trouble." I didn't pay attention.

[00:34:35]I got louder with that message. And then one day, I got a lawsuit. And here's what the lawsuit said. The lawsuit said, "You're selling the Mega Memory Home Study course and you're making unsubstantiated and undocumented claims as to its benefits." And I said in court, I said, "Really? You never asked me to provide the documentation and substantiation that I have for every statement that I've made. I have 150 bankers boxes here that we're bringing into court with all of the studies, documentation, and substantiation. You guys are the fraudsters because you made the allegation without even asking me to provide it first. You didn't even do an investigation. This is a political witch hunt and everybody knows it. That case was settled with no finding of wrongdoing on my part. No fine and nothing. But it wasn't the end. And they told me you can't go down this road. I mean, we had private sidebar meetings.

[00:35:31]actually had a meeting in chambers with the judge which I can't even talk about because it'll get me in massive amounts of trouble where I was told certain things uh and I decided to basically continue exposing corporate and government corruption at the highest levels in this area and today I mean the make America healthy again movement whether you are buying into it or not at least it's exposing almost everything that I said in the book that I wrote in 2005 uh natural cures I was going to say that you were really ahead of your time because most of the things you said are things that RFK Jr.

[00:36:08]is saying now and if you if he were around then he probably would have hired you to be on you know on his staff. So it's uh and that's good and I do know that you have I don't want to jump ahead but I know that you're going to be coming out with your own line of supplementation which I'm also really interested in. So, but I wanted to jump back for a second because one of the other things I find fascinating about you is, you know, you basically said to the government, go scratch appropriately so, but they said not so fast. And they really shut you up and they shut you up by eventually locking you up for contempt of court. Can you tell us about that? This was the greatest uh I'll tell you what, I got Hollywood beating down my door because they want to produce, you know, a Netflix series and because this is the most unbelievable story of all time. Here I am. I wrote a book called Natural Cures. It's a First Amendment protected book.

[00:37:00]>> And I mean I you can write a book that says the moon is made of cheese. It doesn't matter what you write. It's protected by the first amendment. People don't have to buy it. And if they buy it, they don't like it, they can get a refund. But it's a first amendment protected book. They they came after me and said, "You are making um misrepresentations about your book, about the contents of the book." I said, "I'm reading the book. I'm reading from the book when I go and sell it on television. How can I be misrepresenting the contents of the book?" And that was also the book, The Weight Loss Cure They Don't Want You to Know about where I expose the Dr. Simeon's HGT protocol. So, they couldn't get me for fraud. They didn't charge me with fraud. They didn't charge me with deception or or or any type of crime.

[00:37:44]They charged me with contempt of court because in one of my settlement agreements, it says that I won't misrepresent the contents of a book in a TV show or when I appear on radio or television. Well, of course, I'm not.

[00:37:57]I'm going to expose my express my opinions and read read excerpts of the book. So, it's impossible to to misrepresent the contents of the book if I'm reading excerpts of the book. Well, it didn't matter because the judge said he was going to find me guilty. He wasn't going to read any of my briefs.

[00:38:16]And he did. He found me guilty of contempt of court. And he said, "If I if I plead guilty, he'll give me a maximum of six months in prison if I agree just to stop talking about the book on TV."

[00:38:28]>> Wow.

[00:38:28]>> And he said, "I won't I'm not necessarily saying I'm going to give you six months, but I'll give you a maximum." I said, "No, I'm not going to plead guilty because I did nothing wrong. I express my first amendment constitutional rights and I'm not going to stop talking about this book on television. I have a constitutional right to express my opinion. He then gave me 10 years in a federal penitentiary.

[00:38:48]>> But Kevin, hold on one second. Weren't you Weren't you Weren't you given a jury trial? I read and again I I I'll let you tell me what's real and what's not because I wasn't personally there. My information is limited to what I'm reading. So I'm so glad you're here.

[00:39:02]Okay. So, first, if this is federal court, you would have a jury trial, which would mean you'd have 12 jurors who aren't part of the government. They come in and they're determining whether you committed a crime or not. And unanimously, they found that you did.

[00:39:17]Isn't that accurate or no?

[00:39:19]>> Yes. I had a jury trial and in the jury trial I was forbidden to use the word first amendment as my uh defense and I was also forbidden to use as a defense the fact that everything that I did was reviewed by my attorneys and I was also forbidden by the judge by the judge to use as a defense the fact that I sent all the shows to the federal government in advance and said before I run them if there's any issue please let me know so I can address it. So he wouldn't let me use my defense. So I I had nothing to say. So basically, you're hearing one side of the story. It was almost like a grand jury where you can basically indict a ham sandwich.

[00:39:59]>> So that the the trial was categorically a joke because there was no defense.

[00:40:03]There was nothing I could say.

[00:40:04]>> Yeah. It sounds like It sounds like It sounds like Yeah. Your position is that you weren't given a fair trial because your hands were tied behind your back. I hate that feeling. Is that how you feel?

[00:40:13]Is that what >> I did? Well, it was clearly that. And if you look at the the re the response from top legal experts around the country at that at that trial, it wasn't me saying that. I mean, some of the top legal minds were saying this was a joke. They thought it would be overturned an appeal. They thought it would be overturned at some No, no, it was affirmed by the appeals court, the contemptive court, because >> contemptive court, as you know, is in the constitution. And one of the things that makes it unique is the judge has discretion. So because the discretion language is so broad for the trial judge in in contempt of court findings, there was really nothing for the appellet court to overturn. So it was affirmed and I got I believe it was the longest sentence in the history of America for contempt of court 10 years which as you know contempt of court is is not technically a felony or even a misdemeanor. It's my Latin is not so good but I think it's siri juriitis which is uh a thing of its own and 10 years for writing a book that the government didn't like that 50 million people loved. I think it's a little bit harsh.

[00:41:28]>> I agree. And I think in 2026, we now know having survived the last eight or 10 years that the government doesn't always uh fly right. And we and we've learned that. We didn't know it so much maybe 30 years ago, but we know it now.

[00:41:42]And here's where your story for me takes a really fascinating turn because every time I listen to you a lot and every time I hear you talk about the stint in prison and how you used it to complete your latest book and how you were okay with it. You didn't you you didn't hate it. You embraced it. I'm like wow that takes a special kind of person. And one of the reasons why you say how do you say it? You're like nothing happens to you. The universe doesn't do anything to you. It does things for you. And that is the principle that you relied on when you went into Clink. No.

[00:42:14]>> Yeah. I say the same thing, Kevin. I think that that's important. So it sounds like you accepted what happened and you made the best of it. Is that what you did?

[00:42:22]>> Yeah. Without any bitterness. And you know, we can point fingers, but I think that's just a waste of time. At the end of the day, you have to take responsibility for everything happens in your life. And it's nobody's fault except me. I made the decisions. I didn't do anything wrong. There was no fraud or deception. And there was no customers that were any deceived in any way. And we know that because uh they continue to buy the book and they recommend it to others. So everyone liked my book. So that wasn't an issue.

[00:42:48]And I felt that what I was doing was right. The fact that I had to spend 10 years in prison for basically breaking this glass ceiling and now everybody's talking about what I talked about.

[00:42:59]>> I mean, it's all over the podcast and everything. And I remember getting calls from Deepo Chopra and Mike Adams, the health ranger, and all these other guys saying, "Kevin, why are you talking about the drug companies and the FDA?

[00:43:11]You we're all you're all going to get you're going to get us all in trouble.

[00:43:14]The government's going to go after us and try to shut us up. Don't do that.

[00:43:17]Don't do that." And I said, "Look, someone's got to basically take the heat and and lead the charge here. And once this happens, I think the doors will open and we'll all be better off." So I I did the 10 years. And for me, you know, it was an exciting adventure.

[00:43:33]People have a hard time grasping that.

[00:43:34]You know, the government took everything away from me. They wiped me out. Uh, but that's fine. They didn't take away my ability to create. And when you read the book by Vic Victor Frankl, Man's Search for Meaning, >> I think it puts things in perspective.

[00:43:46]He was in a Nazi concentration camp wondering every day if he was going to be sent to the ovens. And he handled it.

[00:43:51]I thought if he can handle that, I'm living in paradise here at federal prison camp Montgomery, Alabama compared. So, I took advantage of the time to rest and rejuvenate, do yoga every day, meditate every day, study some languages, play bridge, my bridge game got really good, uh, exercise, uh, and really meet interesting people from a variety of of cultures, you know, people that I would have never met before, whether it was Jeff Skielling from Enron or Jesse Jackson Jr. or the guy, you know, who doesn't never graduated second grade and he's a gang banger killing people with his AK-47s and a drug dealer and I'm playing cards with him and getting to know how he thinks and the culture he grew up in and it was I think the best education and opportunity of of my life and I took advantage of it.

[00:44:43]>> Wow.

[00:44:43]>> While you were in there, you finished your latest book, Your Wish Is Your Command, which I have an audio version.

[00:44:50]I also have the guru keg.

[00:44:54]I wrote that >> I wrote all those lessons in prison. I wrote all those lessons in prison.

[00:45:00]>> That's what that's what I know and I try to read one every day over coffee. I have to ask you a personal question because this is something on my mind.

[00:45:07]You said that part of the reason why the universe allowed you to go to prison is because you were asking to sort of have the time the freedom to do these things to write these books and to do the other things that you wanted to do. And I want to know what you would say to somebody who says all right if the universe is always doing things for me but I you know and I want to clear the decks and I want to pivot in my career or I want to make a change but I don't want to have to go to prison to make that happen.

[00:45:34]>> Right. What would you say to a person in those shoes?

[00:45:39]>> Well, for for Christians out there or even Jewish folks in the uh Old Testament, it says, "If you are willing and obedient to the word of the Lord, you will eat the good of the land and succeed in everything you do." And there's two words there. If you go back to the original Hebrew, which actually comes from Canaanite, willing and obedient, which means do what you're kind of told, which is follow your intuition, but also not just do it, but be willing. So in my particular case when I made the decision and I was being led or felt that this was the right thing to do, I was in alignment with it.

[00:46:10]It resonated with me. Okay. So I was kind of following that but was I willing to to pay the price or deal with the consequences? And I think you have to and when you do then the journey is the reward. Now no one has to go to prison.

[00:46:25]That's an extreme case obviously in my particular case for a lot of good reasons. But to have eight and a half years, I got a 10-year sentence. I did eight and a half. But to take eight and a half years and to be able to have the time to write those books and write those lessons, which I wrote also another course called the science of personal mastery course, which is like that thick. And I wrote this entire codified PhD course on releasing abilities and manifesting and creating the life you want. There's nothing on the nothing on the planet like it. It's it's stepbystep codified just like if you were going through mathematics training in school where you learned addition, subtraction, multiplication, uh you know, and you go through all of the steps from algebra and calculus and trigonometry and it takes you through this series. So, this was a this this prison experience for me was a great blessing. A a great blessing. I remember I was walking down the compound and the the warden comes up and he says, "Trudeau, I've been in the Bureau of Prisons for 35 years. I've seen tens of thousands of inmates and you're the only one who's actually happy to be here."

[00:47:38]And I said, "Well, warden, you know, I'm here. That's not going to change. And I have a choice. I can either be miserable and bitter like everybody else, or I can be happy and enjoy it. I choose to be happy." Kevin, Kevin, it sounds like acceptance is the answer to all of my problems today, right?

[00:47:55]>> Yeah. You accepted where you were at, right?

[00:47:58]>> What you what you resist persists, right? That's that's kind of the phrase that goes around. What you resist persists. You have to you remember remember the great uh prayer which said, "God, grant me the courage to change the things I can change." Right? Patience to accept the things I can't >> and the wisdom to know the difference.

[00:48:17]So, you have to accept the things you can't change >> and and then life's a lot easier. We're always trying to change something. It's like, if I can change that person, then I'll be happy. If I can change my situation, then I'll be happy. If I can change that recognizing the powerlessness that we have. Yeah.

[00:48:33]>> It doesn't right. And it doesn't work.

[00:48:35]And I wish we could stay and talk to you for a a million >> hours longer, but we are going to let you go. accept that I do want people want to find you your books, your courses, your uh global information network. Do they kevin Trudeau.com is that the best place?

[00:48:53]>> The best place for everything is kevinau.com.

[00:48:56]The book is available there and any any information is always right there.

[00:49:00]kevtruau.com.

[00:49:02]>> Right. Your wish is your command. His latest work. I'm loving it. Kevin Trudeau, thank you so much for joining us today on Positively Legal.

[00:49:08]>> Thank you, Kevin. Appreciate you coming.

[00:49:09]>> My pleasure. Nice to meet both of you.

[00:49:11]For the rest of you, don't go away because when we come back, we're going to go off the record. Stay tuned.

[00:49:30]Welcome back to Positively Legal. And now it's time for Janna and I to go off the record. Janna, >> what's on my mind?

[00:49:42]>> Oh, yeah. What's on your mind? Let's >> I'll say. So, we're going to pivot. Talk about something a little more serious.

[00:49:48]Cole Allen, the latest lunatic in a seemingly neverending line of those afflicted with Trump derangement syndrome, pleaded not guilty this week to charges stemming from his armed ambush at the recent White House correspondence dinner. The not-uilty plea was standard operating procedure.

[00:50:07]The surprise move came when his defense attorneys filed the motion to disqualify the entire United States Attorney's Office and DOJ on grounds that Janine Piro and Todd Blanch were at the scene of the crime. This motion should fail.

[00:50:24]Why? Because it's [ __ ] Oops. I mean legally baseless. The claim that Janine Piro and Todd Blanch are quote material witnesses is so much of a stretch it should come with its own yoga mat. We do not need Janine Piro or Todd Blanch or any members of the prosecutorial teams to testify in this case. There are 2600 other attendees who can. There is also video, a manifesto, aka a wordy email, and of course, the Secret Service agents themselves, who apparently missed the lesson where they teach you how to aim.

[00:51:05]>> Is that it?

[00:51:06]>> No, there's more.

[00:51:09]Cole Allen took smiling selfies in his hotel room, showing off the weapons he strapped to his body just moments before he rushed the ballroom, including a Mossberg Maverick shotgun, giving whole new meaning to the phrase, "Who are you wearing?"

[00:51:25]So then, what do these defense attorneys want to accomplish here? Are they hoping to find a more pro-assination prosecutor to handle the case against their client? Perhaps one aligned with the idiot judge who apologized at a prior appearance to this would-be president killer because the soap on his rope wasn't scented to his liking or something like that. I'm going to call it like I see it. Cole Allen's defense team is looking for a softer adversary.

[00:51:56]A prosecution team that feels life in prison, which this guy should get, is a bit too much. And this judge, a judge who practically shed a tear because this clown isn't getting Manny Petty's in prison, just might fall for it. We have a problem and it extends well beyond how these psies are prosecuted. And by psies I include here not just the lunatics who think killing the president would make them cool but also the Tyler Robinsons and the Luigi Manionies of the world who are lauded for their extreme anti-maga actions. The rhetoric is the reason the anti-MAGA dictionary is written by corrupt politicians, corrupt prosecutors and the members of the media who do their bidding. If we want to get back to a place where the president of the United States isn't treated like a metal duck silhouette at a carnival game, we need to stop creating the monsters who are willing to pull the trigger.

[00:52:58]>> As always, wonderfully done, my dear Janna. That was great. And we don't talk about what we're going to rant about.

[00:53:06]And surprisingly, I chose to talk about prosecutors.

[00:53:10]>> Great. You >> mentioned prosecutors, but mine's just more general. Okay, so here's my rant.

[00:53:15]When I was a prosecutor more than 30 years ago, I took very seriously the mission to seek the truth. I also took pride in professionalism. That meant promptly responding to defense council, doing everything I could to secure justice for victims, and fighting in court zealously but fairly. When compassion was warranted, I showed it.

[00:53:42]When tough sentences were necessary, I was not afraid to pursue them.

[00:53:48]Unfortunately, too many prosecutors I encounter today don't seem to embrace the same principles. Calls and emails go unanswered, even when there may be evidence that I have that could mitigate a sentence or more importantly, exonerate one of my clients.

[00:54:07]At times it can feel as though some think the law applies to everyone else other than themselves and winning becomes at all costs.

[00:54:18]It's been said that the prosecutor has more control over life, liberty, and reputation than any other person in America. Oftenimes I get so frustrated because I expect more from those entrusted with such immense power and responsibility.

[00:54:39]But on a positive note, because we are positively legal, that's the name of our show. Let's be positive. I want to express gratitude to the many good prosecutors still out there. The ones who do follow the law, the ones who listen to opposing council, the ones who exercise sound judgment and conduct themselves with professionalism and integrity.

[00:55:07]Keep up the good work. We need more of you. Thank you.

[00:55:16]>> Yes.

[00:55:16]>> Bravo. Bravo.

[00:55:18]>> Yes, Janna. So, I'm grateful because we're moving into gratefuls. We don't end this show without gratefuls, Janna.

[00:55:25]>> That's right.

[00:55:26]>> I am so grateful for prosecutors who are just wonderful. And you know who you are. We know who you are. I'm grateful for my beautiful wife of 25 years. I'm grateful that all three of my adult children happen to be home >> for the past like week or two. I'm really enjoying them a lot. They say you'll always love your kids, but will you like them? I really like my kids. I do. And I'm grateful for my two beautiful white golden doodles. Peace and quiet. Those are actually their names.

[00:55:56]>> Peace and quiet.

[00:55:57]>> That's That's a long I'm gonna give I'm just gonna be grateful for one thing for this show. So I don't get many like excuse me red carpet moments, right?

[00:56:07]Maybe someday I will. But I would like and maybe in the comments people can let me know. I do appreciate the fact that I showed up today wearing the same color as your office wall. Yes.

[00:56:19]>> And frankly, I think I wore it better.

[00:56:22]So, >> I would argue you did. You did. I can see that I'm grateful for that.

[00:56:27]>> I'm grateful for the compliment. Thank you, Mark.

[00:56:29]>> Wonderful. Okay. Is it time to end our positively legal show?

[00:56:33]>> It is. It is. Do we want to say thank you to our guest Kevin Trudeau?

[00:56:36]>> I think we should. Do you want to do it?

[00:56:38]>> Sure. Thank because I am I'm still enamored. Thank you to our guest Kevin Trudeau and to my co-host Mark Iglar.

[00:56:46]And thank you for joining us. Remember, new episodes of Positively Legal drop every Wednesday. I hope you choose to have a wonderful week. That's right.

[00:56:56]It's a choice.