Does Death Even Matter in Comics and Manga?

[00:00:00]In my last video, I talked about the relationship between Bruce and Damian in Peter J. Tamari and Patrick Gleason's Batman and Robin run. In the comment section, someone asked about the meaninglessness of death in American superhero comics. They'd commented that they mostly read manga and while they've been getting into American comics, death and particularly the lack of [music] attitude readers have to it seemed very different to what they had experienced in manga. I gave my opinion in the comments section, but I haven't really stopped thinking about it. So, today I posed the question, does death matter more in American superhero comics or Japanese shownen manga? To answer this, there are actually a few things we need to discuss [music] first. Primarily, we need to look at how both manga and comics are created, especially ones in both the superhero and shownen genres.

[00:00:48]The typical publication method for both American superhero comics and Japanese shownen manga are relatively different.

[00:00:54]>> [music] >> For clarity, I'm primarily discussing printed media because this is how comics were originally printed and thus has a longer publication history compared to digital. That and it's the publishing avenue I find the most interesting. For American superhero comics, there are primarily two main publishers, Marvel Comics and DC Comics. There are other publishers, both still running and licensed defunct, such as Image Comics and Malibu Comics. Superhero characters are typically created for those companies. While these characters have individual creators, such as Batman being created by Bill Finger and Bob Kane, or the Fantastic 4 being created by Stanley and Jack Kirby, the character rights are held by the company. This is why many of the earliest comic book creators had work for higher contracts.

[00:01:38]They are paid for what they do, [music] but hold no rights. In the modern day, creators do retain some rights, such as gaining some royalties when stories are reprinted, as well as copies of any reprints. Case in point, my doctoral supervisor briefly wrote for Marvel in 2008. Even though his series was very short, he still gets trade paperback copies sent whenever Marvel decides to reprint it. The history of creator rights in American comics is very long and depressing. But what you need to keep in mind is that no characters are solely controlled by one creative team, let alone one person. Superman, Spider-Man, Thor, every popular American superhero you can think of is controlled by a massive [music] company. For the big heroes, particularly those that appear in multiple titles, that company needs to ensure that some form of brand synergy exists, which means that even when a creator has been given the okay by editors to do their story, they still need to align with the company's plans.

[00:02:31]With these restrictions in mind, for ongoing books, typically one issue consists of around 24 pages and is released once a month. There are occasional delays or issues can be oversized due to special issues or anniversaries. But what remains, however, is the goal of one issue each month. [music] With manga, we can think of this company's structure as being similar, but on a smaller scale. There are multiple companies running many magazines, each with a different demographic in mind. For [music] example, the company Shishuishi runs the Jump line of manga magazines, including Weekly Shonen Jump, Jump V, Weekly Young Jump, and Ultra Jump. But on top of that, they also publish more female orientated manga in magazines such as Ribbon or Margaret. Because they have all of these magazines that cater to a different audience, series can be moved around to be in front of the most appropriate audiences. Imagine a shownen series that's started out for young kids that's now gotten more darker and wants to explore mature themes. It would be likely that Shishuish would want to move that series to a sine magazine that's aimed at older readers. You'll notice I'm referring to them as magazines rather than issues. Well, unlike American superhero comics, which [music] are released in dedicated issues, manga is released in thick magazines once a week. These magazines don't just include the chapter or issue you want to read that week. Instead, it contains every chapter or issue released that week.

[00:03:51]This does explain why the magazines are so thick. Of the issues I personally own, they are much, much thicker than expected. While each series chapter would be somewhere between 15 and 21 [music] pages, similar to the American comics, however, you have those 21 pages from the series you wanted to read, plus 21 pages for another 20 series each week. Unlike something from Marvel or DC [music] comics, where one series may reference another and characters interact, the series in manga magazines rarely mention each other. If they do, it's usually as an Easter egg or an off-hand reference. Also, while American superhero comics typically produce 24 pages a month, shownen manga creators produce 21 pages per week, which is a herculean task in itself, but when you know how little time they have, certain decisions may seem to make a little more sense. To add to the pressure they are under, unless they take a hiatus, which puts their series at risk of being cancelled, they can only ever be 3 weeks ahead of schedule. I might go into the production cycle of manga more in the future, but I do briefly discuss it here where I discuss the short manga series Time Paradox Ghost Writer. You can see just from the publication methods that a lot of planning or decision-m can change things drastically between the two [music] cultures. But these decisions need to be made by creators, which leads me to explaining creative teams. So again, I'll start with America creators.

[00:05:09]While there are people who create comics [music] completely on their own, there are typically seven key roles. These are writer, penceller, inker, colorist, letterer, editor, and group editor and or editor-inchief. The writer can work either on their own or with another member of the creative team to produce their initial [music] scripts and pitch documents. An editor will go through this with them and either make suggestions or will take questions higher to see if the writer's ideas are okay to do with whatever character they're writing. When taking these questions higher, the editor will typically talk to the group editor who might be in charge of a group of books that all belong to a certain character.

[00:05:45]Or they might take the questions up to [music] a chief editor. That script is given to a pencellor who will take the script which can be either very loose or extremely specific and create the story boards and final pencils [music] from it. If all is approved, that is given to the inker who inks over the pencil's work. In the digital age, a lot of pencilers like to ink their own work, but you still do get dedicated inkers.

[00:06:07]Sometimes you see pencilers and inkers that like to work together, such as Jim Lee and Scott Williams or Greg Capulo and Danny Miki. [music] From here, a colorist takes those inked pages and well colors them. And finally, a letterer adds the dialogue and other elements the pages need. [music] In my opinion, each of these positions is as invaluable as the other. Each of them have their own form of art and aesthetic [music] they bring to the work.

[00:06:29]Different letterers approach how a carrier or balloon expresses their content. [music] A colorist can drastically change the tone and feel even when working with the same [music] raw layouts. Inkers can add to or even emphasize elements of a pencil's work.

[00:06:44]I'd argue that in some cases, such as a story with a more horror leaning, they bring out dynamic [music] changes in light and shadow. Mainstream American superhero comics really are a collaborative medium in which each person involved can contribute something and add to that whole. Even editors, which as fans we do sometimes have a habit of complaining about, bring something to that equation. [music] You see, sometimes when editors are checking in on story pictures or scripts, they have to turn ideas down or give orders from higher up with how some of these characters can and cannot be used. When editors interfere heavily as fans, we do typically refer to these as editor-driven stories. This video does largely talk about character deaths, [music] and yeah, before I've even gotten to that point, some of you can probably guess that there are occasions when deaths come as an order from editors or even the editor-inchief. So, what about shownen manga? While they also have editors and editors and chief, much like the American counterparts, they sit [music] with the creators to discuss the ideas and pitches. Editors might make suggestions for where they think something should go or where they think changing something up might lead to more readers. That largely remains unchanged [music] regardless of which country you're in. It's with the creative team and that very short turnaround that we see the biggest difference. Primarily, the creator of the manga is one [music] person.

[00:07:58]Sometimes you get two people working on it, usually a writer and an artist. And on very rare occasions, you have rotating teams [music] such as with Clamp. But for the vast majority of manga, it's one person writing it, drawing it, and deciding where the story goes each chapter. These creators do get to employ two or three assistants each week. However, their job is not to write or draw the story. Instead, it's to do the work that slows down the core creator. This could be inking in large sections, whiting out pencil mistakes on the paper, or applying screen tone to imply depth since most manga is printed in black and white. Assistants jobs are to do just that, to assist, primarily while they work on their own skills in the hopes of Sunday [music] being in the creator's position. Many manga creators known as manga have posted their weekly schedules online to try and give their readers a sense of what it's like working [music] on their series. The main takeaway from these schedules is that every hour of each week needs [music] to be accounted for in order to produce 21 pages, meet with editors, and then eat and sleep. Essentially, while a creator's series is being published, they do nothing but live in that story world. If their series starts to become unpopular to the point of coming up last reader surveys, they're given a few weeks notice and need to attempt to bring the story to a satisfying conclusion in just two or three chapters. If their series is successful, [music] then they need to keep the series primary goal in sight while still finding stories to tell along the way.

[00:09:22]Think of Ichiro's One Piece. That series has been running in weekly Shonen Jump since 1997. We know that the end goal of that story will be the Straw Hat Pirates finding their goal of the One Piece and Luffy will or won't become the king of the pirates. Until we get to that point, either because Oda wants it to end or Shonen Jump decides that it should end.

[00:09:42]Every story in between the beginning and that end point is another story arc that happens to the crew on the way to their goal. That series will likely not be written or drawn by anyone else, assuming Oda gets to tell his complete story. When the series is done, that is it in terms of its original publication.

[00:09:58]Shownen Jump and particularly their parent company, Shishuishi, will not have Oda reach the end of his story only for another person to come back next week with the next story in Luffy in [music] the Straw Hat Saga. However, when we look at American superhero comics, we see this happening all the time. Batman didn't end with Bill Finger and Bob Ka. Spider-Man stories didn't end when Steve Dickco left Marvel.

[00:10:20]Instead, they brought in new writers and artists. They keep the characters going, and whoever picks up the pen next needs to either carry on with what the previous writer left for them or take the characters in completely different directions. With that in mind, let me give you two different situations.

[00:10:35]You're working at DC or Marvel and you've taken over one of the biggest characters they have. You have this idea that you've wanted to do for years that's perfect for that superhero.

[00:10:45]There's just one problem. A character you envisioned as being crucial to that story was just killed off by the previous creative team. What do you do?

[00:10:52]You come up with this great idea to tell the story anyway, [music] but the elements that involve that character are now told as a flashback. That way you can intercut those scenes with stuff happening in the present day and maybe even [music] extend the issue count to give yourself more room for the heroes to really deal with the void that character's death has left with them. It sounds great. Your editor agrees only for the editor-inchief [music] to inform you that a big event is happening soon and the heroes need to be at a specific point with everyone alive in the next 3 [music] months. By your schedule, your plan is going to take 5 months and there isn't a satisfying way to bring the character back while doing [music] your story. From there, you have a few more options. You can work longer with your editor and maybe other [music] members of your creative team to figure out how to make all this work. Meanwhile, time is running [music] out and ultimately the editor tells you to just bring the characters back next month and they'll explain it sometime later. Or you hastily reshuffle your 5-month plan into something that will only take 3 months, but you've now cut out vital scenes that have really brought meaning and depth to the character's life and death. Neither of these are satisfying to the creator or the reader, but it gets you past that awkward point where you can hopefully get to the stories you really wanted [music] to tell before the next team takes over and the process starts all over again. At the exact same time, imagine you were working at Shonen Jump, telling a story you've spent years dreaming of, only to find that you are 50 chapters in and you need to deliver a fully complete 21 pages to the publisher every Monday. and no matter what you're doing, the readers are saying that it just doesn't seem like the story is going anywhere or that none of the characters really seem like they're in danger. Your editor calls asking if they can come around to pick up the next set of pages and to have a meeting about your plans for the next chapter. While the editor is there, he casually mentions that your series isn't doing too well in the reader survey, and if you don't do something soon, you'll only have a few weeks left to wrap all up.

[00:12:41]It's at that moment you look at your editor and ask him, "Do you think it would surprise the readers if I killed off this popular main character?"

[00:12:48][music] Given the fact that you're the only one who will write the series, then you decide to kill off said character in order to communicate to the readers that something big is happening. The stakes are high and that you should care about this because hey, this character [music] died. The chapter goes out. Readers address their surprise and now are excited to see what happens next. You now [music] have each week to slowly build through the aftermath. and if the death was negatively received, even find ways for a [music] character to be brought back, perhaps in another twist that will surprise the readers again. In this case, you're the only person who will write these characters. [music] You don't have to worry that someone else will deal with them. You have full control. Well, aside from the constant threat and anxiety that comes with pleasing readers and trying to stay in publication. Both of these situations are all too common in both industries.

[00:13:33]They aren't whatif scenarios. They're decisions that are made every day.

[00:13:36]Sometimes it leads to deaths that are truly impactful [music] and leave an impression with their reader. That might be because a creator made that decision much earlier on and chose to see it [music] through. My favorite manga example of this was Jeriah in the Naruto series. We're introduced to this guy spying on women [music] in a hot springs setting up his rather perverted nature only to [music] come to find out that he's actually this legendary warrior that is globally respected and feared.

[00:14:01]While he can be a leerous figure sometimes that even Naruto thinks is crazy, [music] but then he shows us a truly sweet side of himself. Naruto grew up all alone and while the two were adventuring, Jeriah saw Naruto, who's just 12 at [music] the time, watching a father and son share an ice cream.

[00:14:16]Something Naruto has always [music] desperately wanted. So when Naruto went off in frustration to train, Jeriah showed up with those same ice [music] creams and told him just how well he's doing. Something Naruto hadn't ever really experienced. Over time, we learn that Jeriah had previously trained Naruto's father, Minato, that one of his books was the inspiration for Naruto's name, and that he is Naruto's godfather, even if Naruto doesn't know that. We see Naruto grow close to Daer over four years, [music] and vowing to show him just how strong he'll become. But then we get the pain arc. The stakes are high, and the creator, Kishimoto, needs to [music] make this villain not just a threat to Naruto's home and friends, but to his ideals. How do you do that? You lean into that caring nature Jeriah has shown, [music] give the readers a glimpse at other children he'd taken in during the war, and then have those same children kill Jeriah. From a reader's perspective, the death of Jeriah happens in a fight where, yes, [music] Kishimoto is given hints that something could go wrong, but at the same time, it's almost like he's giving himself an out not to do it, but then it's done. Jeriah manages to send one message back home before dying, thinking of Naruto's parents, Minato and Kusha, and finally [music] of the glorious future Naruto will have. It's the chapters after this act that expand [music] and add depth to that death. We get entire chapters after this death that explore more of Jeriah's past and most importantly, how Naruto is dealing with it. Kishimoto doesn't need [music] to worry about another writer coming in and changing it. No doubt the readers of the time reacted to that death and he got to expand upon it in the chapters after. I know that when I was reading those [music] chapters as they were being published in English and while his death was shocking, it was the chapters after that made it meaningful for me. Even the idea of Naruto not knowing that his name came from a novel Jeriah wrote, Kishimoto minds this fact later in a particularly quiet chapter that again needs to communicate the stakes [music] to the reader. So, we see Naruto reading that novel and filling himself with new determination to save his home and the friends he has there.

[00:16:13]We could easily compare this to the Tom King run of Batman. Towards the end of Tom King's run, King needs to expressly make it clear to the reader just how dire the situation is when Bane has taken over Gotham City and essentially isolated Bruce. How do you communicate just how alone Bruce is? You kill his [music] closest ally, Alfred. While there were already people complaining that they didn't particularly like King's Run, I think the biggest reason people complained about Alfred's death is because it did happen at the end of King's Run. Issue 77, Alfred dies. Issue 85, Batman is back and Bane is defeated.

[00:16:48]And this would have been a perfect time for things to slow down and allow Bruce to reflect on losing essentially his father figure. Instead, issue 86 sees a new creative team taking over and addressing their own stories rather than focusing on the death of Alfred. We are now getting issues of Batman that seem to be taking the death of Alfred very seriously with Bruce even seeing apparitions of Alfred as he discusses life with it. But it took four or five creative teams for someone to want to address it. The original question I was posed was why do deaths feel so meaningless in American comics compared to Japanese shownen manga? In honesty, I think my answer is that any death can appear meaningless in fiction. just how death can feel meaningless in real life.

[00:17:30]Sometimes death can make you angry. They can cause you to go on rants online or even fuel your own creativity. Sometimes things only get addressed much later.

[00:17:39]But when it comes to satisfying storytelling, it's about letting creators explore the impact and actions around those deaths. With manga, it may feel like deaths are more impactful because it's coming from a creator who has to live and breathe their creations and think through what could happen next. But if they don't, that's the death of their series and in many cases the death of their careers. In America, sometimes editorial mandates don't allow creators to [music] properly explore these deaths. In the worst cases, sometimes those deaths aren't the creator's idea and instead come from editorial demands. A big example of companymandated deaths are actually thanks to Superman. In 1992, the editorial team at DC needed to find a way to delay the marriage of Clark Kent and Lois Lane. Primarily, they wanted that story to come out roughly around the same time where it would happen in the television series. In an [music] editor's meeting, one editor threw out an idea that they had frequently suggested before as a joke. Why don't we just kill him? The difference this time is that the [music] rest of the team decided to take it seriously. So, in Superman number 75, Superman dies, and that issue sold extremely well, namely 6 million copies. The release of this story led to a lot of publicity for DC.

[00:18:51]You had the six million copies sold and even news outlets were reporting on Superman's death. While a lot of people were mourning Superman's passing, Dowski notes that entrepreneur.com made the death of Superman one of the top 10 successful marketing stunts of all time with Christopher Nolles referring to the story as a cynical publicity stunt. The letters pages for Superman titles, a place where readers could express opinions to other Superman fans, were fairly mixed. In Action Comics number 689, one reader writes, >> "Stupid. How can we believe a story where Superman is dead? Superman should come out of his self-imposed sleep in Superman 76. He has had tougher fights lots of times. We have heard some nonsense about four Supermen coming in March. Come on, you made one giant stupid mistake. Don't compound it. If this isn't straightened out, in two weeks, I'll be ashamed to admit that I read DC comics.

[00:19:48]>> In contrast, the very next issue has a letter stating, >> "When I heard about DC's plan to kill off Superman, I didn't believe it at first. When it was confirmed, I was intrigued. Finally, Superman faces mortality." It seemed more than just an obligatory must read, and it certainly was. Each installment of Doomsday built in suspense as the number of panels decreased, emphasizing the solemn importance of The Man of Steel's Date with Destiny.

[00:20:12]>> I spoke with longtime writer and editor Mike Carlin to ask about the overall reception of The Death of Superman. I wanted to ask him about what it was like receiving those letters at the time. Was there anything that particularly stuck out to him? Colin responded by saying, >> "We definitely received a lot of mail."

[00:20:29]But in the case of Superman, an inordinate amount of it regarded anger about comic shops boosting the price of the bagged issue almost immediately in many cases. I even kept a case of [music] the bagged books in my office to send as peace offerings when customers would write in saying they'd never buy another comic again at their comic shop.

[00:20:47]at least. Obviously, there was a big reaction when Superman died, not only in the regular comic reading audience, but in the outside world as well, something that I don't think has ever happened regarding Captain America or Iron Man.

[00:21:00]This also makes it a tough reality to gauge, especially just looking at reader mail. The reality is that letters pages were part of the package used to promote what was working in a series, either the stories or the talent, but they weren't ever not basically part of the propaganda for the series. [music] So, people generally send in positive notes because it was easy to see that we'd prefer printed thumbs up [music] rather than thumbs down. We did run negative ads, but they were a lesser percentage for sure. maybe one negative to three or four positives, but these were content meant to hype up whatever we were doing.

[00:21:36]The internet is a warts and all version of the feedback, and it's virtually immediate, but there's no guarantee the publisher will ever see your thoughts.

[00:21:45]>> We can see from these reactions and even the internal reaction from DC that the death of Superman had a massive impact.

[00:21:52]I mean, if you're watching me, first, hi, why did you leave the TV on while you were sleeping? But you probably already know this. But here's how other companies and even DC saw this whole story. Wow, a lot of people are talking about Superman. And even better, it's selling really well. Maybe death is a great marketing tactic regardless of what people think of it. For a more recent example, look at 2023's Amazing Spider-Man number 26. An issue that features the death of Miss Marvel. For many, this was a death that [music] came out of nowhere and certainly cause outrage online. Honestly, this death was meaningless in every sense of the word.

[00:22:28]But do you want to know what made it even worse? The issue came out in May.

[00:22:31]Miss Marvel came back in August, just 3 months later. The reason for killing Miss Marvel, to bring her back as an X-Men, to promote the X-Men. This is what I mean when I say editorial mandates have really cheapened the idea of death in comics. But to some degree, that happens in both American superhero comics and shownen manga. I think it's just far more apparent in superhero comics. Of course, the big thing we are leaving out is the audience, particularly for [music] superhero comics. Originally, superhero comics were intended for young children. I spoke to noted superhero scholar and the founder of the superhero project, Danny Graden. [music] He noted that superhero narratives are meant to be never ending, that lead [music] characters are meant to continue, that frequently death is done to give those characters a reason to endure, to seek revenge or justice.

[00:23:14]The example he uses is Sue Dibney in 2004's [music] Identity Crisis. She is a character who is important to many of the heroes, but most importantly to Elongated [music] Man. Her death was gratuitous and ultimately served no other purpose than to be the driving force in a murder mystery. When specifically talking about the [music] audience, Graden points out that they started life as disposable, lightweight entertainment [music] for children. The implication is that kids will grow up and they will leave those comics behind. For the past 40 or 50 years, however, we've had an audience that's grown and therefore has what could be considered an unnaturally long relationship with the medium. When you have older readers who can notice patterns in these comics and have a better understanding of the concept of death, we can see that these deaths will be undone or how they might be used to manipulate the reader's emotions. But what if you're someone who's much younger? It's [music] going to be very impactful if that's the only thing that you read. For adults, it's going to be less impactful [music] because as human beings, we're built to notice patterns.

[00:24:11]So, you're going to see all these things. None of this is to say that all deaths in [music] comics are meaningless. Many superheroes or shownen action heroes have their origins soaked in death. Bruce Wayne is Batman because of the death of his parents. [music] Naruto's situation growing up is because of his parents' heroic sacrifice the day he was born. Spider-Man learned power and responsibility at the cost of Uncle Ben's life. And even someone like Astro Boy would not exist if little Tobio Tenma hadn't died, causing his father to build a robotic replacement in his grief. And yes, some deaths are straight up meaningless. My favorite joke growing up breeding and watching Dragon Ball is that the first time Goku dies, it's not really a problem. God just goes and talks to an even higher being who then lets Goku train on a tiny planet with a fail comedian until short, angry General Zod arrives on Earth to throw a temper tantrum. I do really like Dragon Ball Z, by the way. It's just my favorite joke as a kid. Stories are made by people and it's very rare that a story makes it through production and to the reader in the original intended form. What's important is to take note of why a story point might feel meaningless. Maybe learn a little bit more about the creative process and consider how you might have done it and then maybe use that as fuel to create something you deem as meaningful. I wrote a paper a few years ago in celebration of 10 years of the MCU. In it, I talked about Iron Man and the conclusion of myth. how the fact that Iron Man has a full story arc, a beginning, middle, and end acts as a textual termination point. That while superhero narratives, as Elaine states, are a eraser of ordinary mortal flesh in favor of the ideal. I describe how in many early superhero stories, deaths are either part of an imaginary story or were permanent, such as with Uncle Ben, Bucky Barnes, Captain Marvel. But since the '9s, superheroes have entered a cycle of death and resurrection far more routinely than any other medium. Tanahi Coats even points out that if you're going to kill main characters only to resurrect them later, why should we care in the first place? Ultimately, that paper concluded that the reason Iron Man's MCU death had weight is because it was a definitive end. That as Carbone states, we watched him learn how to be selfless, ending with his sacrifice that saved the universe. that it was a beautiful end and was well-earned. When I wrote that paper, the return of Robert Downeyy's Junior Year's Doom hadn't been announced yet, which yes, does feel like it cheapens things, but at the end of the day, it hammers in that idea of editorial mandates, corporate oversightes, and obligations. In many [music] ways, yes, manga does have the advantage here. One story told by one author, but with the pressure of pleasing audiences and editors, but they don't have to worry about tying into other initiatives. [music] They don't have to worry about the next writer. If someone dies, yes, it might have been planned, it might also be just to bump up sales, but when you take away the massive ecosystem that mainstream superhero comics exist in, the creators have the same intention to tell stories.

[00:27:01]But hey, what do I know? I'm talking about American and Japanese comic books in the middle of the hottest summer England has had in years. Maybe I overthink these things.

[00:27:10]A huge thank you to Solid JJ Comics Explained and Amazing PSM for lending their voices to this. You guys are amazing and I hope you know how much I appreciate you. This script took a [music] long time. I went through many revisions. Uh you won't even believe what I cut out. Uh I did have it nice and short, but the more I kept thinking about it, the more I ended up adding, editing, rephrasing, and I hope that it's somewhat enjoyable and informative.

[00:27:36]What comic book or manga deaths do you, I guess, like, appreciate, found satisfying? Let me know in the comments below. And as always, till next