Ep 52 - April 20, 2026

Added: 2026-05-05

[00:00:09]Hey everybody, welcome back to Front Page Fitness.

[00:00:12]It is me, as always, Eric Trexler joined by the Dr. Lauren Colenso Sample.

[00:00:17]Lauren, how are we doing tonight?

[00:00:20]Well, usually I'm just deteriorating emotionally deep in my soul, but today and for the past few weeks my vision is really deteriorating rapidly and I might have discovered the source of the problem. And that is I first got glasses in 2019.

[00:00:43]And I used to just wear them when I was using the computer and over time my vision has declined as it does. And so now I wear them a lot more and I've never been back to the eye doctor. So maybe it's time.

[00:01:02]So wait, when did you get your current prescription?

[00:01:05]2019.

[00:01:07]Uh yeah, it's about time. You're going to go to the doctor and you're going to get some bad news, unfortunately. Uh but that's the way it works.

[00:01:16]Yeah. Yeah, I I'm I I am in a little bit of denial. The last time I went in, they said, "Your prescription changed by one increment." And I said, "No, it didn't.

[00:01:25]Give me the old stuff." So I'm Oh, okay.

[00:01:28]>> back. It was one of those things, honestly, Lauren, I don't know about you, but I I second-guessed myself a lot and when they were giving me the do you like number one or number two better?

[00:01:36]Number two or number three?

[00:01:38]They were showing me the new one and the old one. I was like, "Guys, this is a toss-up and the tie goes to the one that doesn't involve me having worse vision and doesn't involve me having two pairs of glasses with different prescriptions, right? So that's my take. They're going to have to really talk me into another prescription change.

[00:01:56]I think the same way that dentists and dental hygienists like intentionally mess with you by putting their hands in your mouth and then asking you a question that requires a long detailed answer, I think the optometrists [ __ ] with us, too, because they know you know, like we're doing this like one or better one or better four, better two or better five. And I'm like, "My brain is about to explode. I don't know. Just give me the glasses." Yeah, it's possible that they're just giving you the same thing twice and just kind of messing with you, for sure.

[00:02:26]Um dentists, you got to watch out. The eye doctors try to give you the the eye glasses prescription change change. The the dentist will start drilling your teeth when they don't need to be drilled. That was uh I have some very radical theories about dentistry. Um >> Oh. When I was younger, I would get a lot of cavities. I don't I haven't It hasn't been the case as an adult. I don't know what the deal is, but in any case um I remember a a a dentist kind of saying, "I know that this tooth doesn't bother you and you may think this is crazy, but I'm going to go ahead and drill it anyway."

[00:03:00]And that tooth after getting work on it bothered me for like 6 years. Um and so I that radicalized me from saying like, "I will never let anyone touch my teeth until I actually have symptoms."

[00:03:11]Uh but Lauren, interesting story I when I got that tooth worked on, I did it without any uh local numbing or anesthesia type product. It was all uh I just went the old-fashioned way and said, "Do your worst." Uh so that was something that uh I apparently probably our parents, Lauren, did not have Novocaine or anything of the sort. And so when they got their teeth drilled, it would they were just going in going in raw and getting, you know, straight drill to tooth. Uh don't recommend it, though. Not not not advice I would give to anyone.

[00:03:44]But uh the reason I did that, Lauren, was I had a bodybuilding show in a week and I said, "What's in this uh numbing injection?" And they said, "Epinephrine."

[00:03:53]And I knew that that was on the banned substance list and I was about to take a polygraph in a week and I was like, "I really wish you wouldn't have told me that because that is not a dose of epinephrine that would change anything at all in a bodybuilding show."

[00:04:06]And yet is a ban It is a banned substance and I'm not a good liar. So I had to put myself through very modest levels of torture uh to have peace of mind during my polygraph.

[00:04:17]Huh. Yeah.

[00:04:20]For an unnecessary dental procedure. For an unnecessary procedure which complications would haunt me for years after. So all in all two thumbs down, do not recommend. But you know what I do recommend, Lauren, is pets. Uh you said that you have been absolutely flooded, inundated with pictures of pets belonging to the FPF army out there.

[00:04:43]Uh and when I opened up the outline for today's episode, I was immediately drawn to uh is this Nimbus the rabbit?

[00:04:52]Yes. Nimbus the rabbit is How would you describe this outfit that this rabbit is wearing?

[00:04:58]It's kind of uh an an old-timey, you know hat. Um what's the kind of What's the name for that kind of hat? It It look It The vibe I get is like an old-timey detective or something. Is that the vibe you get? Yeah.

[00:05:15]Um With like a cape of some sort? Well, it's a matching I I believe that the the jacket and the hat are matching cuz this is a very very chic rabbit. Yeah. It's absolutely adorable, though. You send You if anyone out there has pictures of their pet rabbits wearing hats send it in because obviously their ears are going to be sticking out. It's going to be adorable. So this really brightened my day. And then we've got uh guinea pigs Dairy and Queen uh and they're the the guinea pigs with the the long hair that's like parted down the middle. Uh absolutely hilarious-looking chomping on some Ooh, it looks like they're eating uh some lettuce. Got to watch out for that on the dirty dozen, which we covered last episode. So Mm. minus points for literally poisoning your guinea pigs with uh green leafy vegetables. But other than that, it uh these things really brightened up my day. How you feeling about all these uh all these pet pictures that are coming in? Is this what keeps you going every day?

[00:06:13]I feel like it must be a requirement to be a pet owner of some kind in order to be a fan of our podcast because, you know, clearly we're just building quite the community and when we go on our worldwide podcast tour, we're going to need to have some meetups in a pet-friendly location where we can meet not only the listeners, but all of our furry friends who are apparently enjoying our podcast. Yeah, we'll have to We'll have to think about that a little bit. We'll need to do some kind of procedure because I think some of our dear listeners' pets may hunt other dear listeners' pets. So uh having a cat with tremendous hunting instincts, I don't know if I would unleash them in the guinea pig uh area of the meetup, but uh we'll figure out some kind of way to do some segmenting and then have a big uh a big banquet at the end. What do you say? For just the humans at the banquet uh and we'll we'll do all sorts of classy uh you know, toasts and prizes and we'll we'll unveil the pet of the year.

[00:07:22]I love it. Yeah. I love it. I'm a sucker for a good banquet. I'm a low-class person, but there's something about an annual banquet that just really gets me excited. So we'll we will work on that.

[00:07:33]Uh but without further ado, Lauren, any any additional preamble before we get into the good stuff?

[00:07:39]Well, we we don't have to get to it now, but there is another pet that's featured on today's outline. Yes, yes, we will get to Bubba later.

[00:07:51]So Lauren, um I'm a little concerned that you are getting kind of pulled into this seedy underbelly of the internet, this deep dark world of blank maxing and that it's represented twice on the outline and I'm just concerned that we need to kind of have an intervention and pull you out of this because the more you keep pulling on this thread of the metaphorical sweater, the deeper you get into this, I think the more upset you're going to be. But but for today, we have two. The first one is friction mask Sorry, friction maxing. Um and I have no idea what this could possibly be and I hope it's not as bad as it sounds.

[00:08:29]I'm not looking for this. [laughter] You don't have to be looking for this.

[00:08:33]I'm not looking You'd think I I had maxing set up as a Google alert or something, but I'm just, you know, looking for articles and every time I come across one of these, I feel like we have to talk about it, but I wish people would just stop labeling these things so we didn't have to talk about it. So uh you know, unfortunately, it is a problem with no solution.

[00:08:55]But friction maxing is the idea that uh our lives are too easy and so we need to intentionally do things that are going to make just inconvenience us. So for example, instead of typing your notes, you should be using a pen and paper. Um and we we need to find uh ways that add more problems and hurdles so that we become more resistant to them and then we persevere and we can do hard things.

[00:09:36]Uh and I don't like this idea.

[00:09:41]Yeah, I don't like the idea of like doing hard things just for the sake of them being hard or doing uncomfortable things just for the sake of them being uncomfortable. This this is very reminiscent to me uh of like the I I've people have people imprint a million different justifications on why they do ice baths, but I've heard some genre of justification where it's basically like when you start your morning with the most unpleasant thing you can think of, the whole rest of your day seems more pleasant in comparison. And like to me that's not a good sales pitch. I don't wake up and like stub my toe against like the corner of my wall over and over and say like, well, hey, now I probably won't stub my toe that many times the rest of the day. So, I don't really get that. But I I will say some of the things that they're putting in here as like friction maxing, um I I don't think I don't think there are people just doing hard things for the sake of just having more friction in their life. So, what they talk about here, like specific examples, cooking from scratch instead of ordering a delivery.

[00:10:41]Uh usually like in many cases that's just like the more affordable sustainable way to do eating. Like not a lot of people are going to be able to afford like I will order in every meal for the rest of my life. That's a little bit excessive to be honest. Um you know, reading a book rather than half listening to the audio version of it. I think people just enjoy reading books. I That That's my understanding.

[00:11:03]Like feeling a book in your hand and actually the visual component helping you retain the information versus just the audio component. Assuming they have the appropriate glasses prescription.

[00:11:12]Yeah. Yeah, you got to get that all sorted out. Um I think there was another place in the article that Or no, you were talking about I think taking handwritten notes or did I read that?

[00:11:23]Yeah, I I had mentioned that.

[00:11:25]>> So, that's a thing that I that I recommend to my students all the time because I've noticed that a lot of them, Lauren, and I I'm the window to the young people because I'm in the classroom 4 days a week teaching.

[00:11:37]Um I've noticed a trend where now there are like AI note-taking apps.

[00:11:43]And um so like students will They'll be like, okay, so I'm going to have this AI tool take my notes for me and then I'm going to have a different AI tool make my study guide for me. And then I'm going to like every once in a while kind of glance at it and have no familiarity with this content whatsoever because I did not engage with it any step of the way and that's my path to success for studying. It's like, well, I'm afraid you're going to get to the exam and realize, oh my god, I never touched this stuff. I just had a bunch of AI bots passing it back and forth to one another and now I'm here looking at an exam I don't understand. So, I've always >> learned it, but but you not Exactly.

[00:12:20]>> [laughter] >> Listen, I I I I heard of someone the other day whose student asked them, can you make flash cards for us? And it's like the making of the flash cards is 95% of the value, not me flipping through them once you know them because you made them.

[00:12:35]Uh so, in any case, uh I think a lot of this stuff is just like good old-fashioned like how human beings have eaten for almost all of our existence or doing things in a way that helps you retain information for information-based tasks. But nonetheless, I agree with you, Lauren. We probably don't need a whole term for this. And uh I I also uh do not necessarily like the idea of doing hard thing Well, I don't know. I guess there's some stuff that may feel refreshing uh to just kind of do it the old-fashioned way if you if you attach some kind of sentimental value to it. So, like for example, you know, uh if someone like I don't know. I I I like going out and fetching some some wood to to make in a fireplace versus just like turning on a a gas fireplace. Like I I think they're If I'm like on like a winter vacation, I I wouldn't even mind going out and splitting a few logs, you know, throwing on a flannel. So, there's some like things where I kind of get why doing it the hard way there's some kind of uh romantic or like charming element to it, some nostalgia, something that resonates with with doing it the old-fashioned way, but uh Nonetheless, we don't need a word for this and most of the time I will take the low-friction option because that's just the kind of guy I am.

[00:13:49]Well, I think not only do we not need a word for it, it's very unclear how this is defined given the examples provided.

[00:13:58]But um like using using a map for navigation instead of using your phone, I reject that. Let's not do that. I don't want to.

[00:14:08]>> Yeah. Yeah, I mean, so in one case in one part they talked about finding your way using road signs.

[00:14:14]Um you're going to have to do that uh regardless, I think. You should be looking for road signs when you when you [laughter] drive. You're like like I'm Listen, folks, if you are just looking at your phone and audibly when it says turn left you do it. I do encourage you to look for signs because the thing about roads is they change frequently.

[00:14:30]There can be obstacles. There can be children at play. Uh there could be a lot of things going on in the road. So, do look at the road and do heed the signs. Uh but yeah, >> Google tells you to turn right and it's like in 100 ft, you Yeah. Yeah, [laughter] and there's like three right turns between you and that one. Yeah, but you got to look out for that. But no, it's the idea of dusting off a paper map um that had presumably was updated in 1996, so all the roads are not shaped that way anymore. That I will draw a line there. That's preposterous. That that I could see I could see having a map in your car for some kind of a pop apocalyptic scenario, in which case I would say that's fine.

[00:15:14]I'll just I'll just take what's coming uh to me in that apocalypse, but other than that, I I don't think I've actually seen someone looking at a map in a car probably in 15 years.

[00:15:27]Yeah.

[00:15:29]Well, I think given your reaction to some elements of friction maxing, you will like the next one.

[00:15:41]Okay, yes. The next one is nonna maxing.

[00:15:45]Uh it says uh Gen Z is nonna maxing and cooking like their grandmothers again. Uh is nonna is that a recognized uh term for grandmother? I I think I I'm aware >> grandmother.

[00:15:58]>> going to say, yeah. I'm aware of an Italian-American influencer who talks about his nonna all the time. So, I actually got this one without cheating.

[00:16:05]Um so so this is a thing. We're nonna maxing.

[00:16:10]Yes. Um I think you you probably don't necessarily have to be Italian, but apparently the Italian grandmothers really uh know how to live. And so this is a longevity hack.

[00:16:23]Uh we love a longevity hack on this show.

[00:16:26]And basically, they've decided that the Italian grandmothers really know how to live. They know how to make good food. They know how to slow down and enjoy the ride. They have good social circles. Um and that's something that we should optimize.

[00:16:46]So, the I actually I can get on board with this. I don't know if if that's a curveball that you were expecting or not expecting, but um I I actually I briefly dated someone from Italy.

[00:16:58]And they At the time we we were dating, they were they were going to go back home and visit their grandparents to Italy. And and they were like, listen, I'm going to be like you you're not going to be able to reach me cuz this old village has like barely electricity, certainly no Wi-Fi or internet or anything of the sort. So, like I'll hit you up when I get back, basically.

[00:17:19]And she gets back and is showing me pictures of this little Italian village that's basically like frozen 70 years in the past. And it looked like a postcard. That was the first thing that jump Like you could see like the the sea out in the distance, you know, from from this like cliff. It was just like the most gorgeous-looking place I'd ever seen. But she was telling me about her grandparents, the way their day works, and it's basically the same thing every day. And it's like you start cooking dinner at 9:00 in the morning.

[00:17:47]And, you know, the the all the old men go out and play dominoes and smoke cigars. And, you know, all the women are hanging out and, you know, socializing and and literally start cooking dinner at 9:00 in the morning, right? And uh there's intermittent snacks and lunches and various, you know, uh things along the way, but it's basically just pure socializing, very simple life, extremely slow. How does this food get to them? I have no idea. Uh how do they afford it?

[00:18:13]I can't imagine. But in any case, uh as as I suspend myself uh from thinking about the practicalities, I I was just so enchanted by the lifestyle. So, honestly, you could put me down for some good nonna maxing and I think I would eat it up for about 2 weeks and then I would go insane from being restless.

[00:18:32]Well, I just like to say, you know, I rarely give any kudos, shout-outs, or kind words of any kind to uh our our younger generation. But they did a much better job naming this one than they did China maxing, which was sort of the same concept, right?

[00:18:52]We're drinking tea, we're wearing slippers, you know. And instead of being offensive to the culture, uh this one managed to to to give it a nicer name.

[00:19:02]We can be okay with this name.

[00:19:04]And that's all I have to say about that.

[00:19:07]Yeah. Well, I don't know. We'll have to check with a nonna.

[00:19:10]I mean, we we I don't know if a nonna would be offended by this. You're right.

[00:19:14]You're right.

[00:19:15]>> So, we'll we'll run that by >> I I I I I misspoke. We will work on tracking down a nonna and then we will get back to everybody.

[00:19:22]She can email us frontpagefitnesspodcast@gmail.

[00:19:25]I told you Wi-Fi hard to come by if you're a true OG nonna.

[00:19:30]She can send us a letter. Yeah, [laughter] send a letter in.

[00:19:33]All right. Uh so, we've got some updates in technology. Of course, we like to keep our eyes, you know, we we keep our finger on the pulse of numerous technology sectors. None more important than the toilet, a technology people use, you know, pretty much daily. Uh you should be using it daily, folks. If If not, um look into that. But the New York Post, your old stomping grounds, Lauren.

[00:19:55]Uh, what is new in the world of toilet technology?

[00:19:59]So, a while ago we talked about a wearable that was coming out where you could put some sort of a sensor in your toilet. It was unclear exactly what it was, but then it would link to an app on your phone and give you sort of general updates about your toilet habits and overall bowel health, allegedly. So, there have been some advancements here.

[00:20:27]Um, and >> Oh, my god. [laughter] I I cheated. I looked at the link.

[00:20:32]You You might notice that the image on this wonderful article is a woman on the toilet with her pants down reading the New York Post and the front page says, "Doo-Doo Data."

[00:20:49]Yes, that is the third thing I noticed.

[00:20:52]Uh, the first thing I noticed is, um, uh, what is her plan? I noticed she has her newspaper in one hand and a big coffee in the other. Is that something people are doing in the bathroom is enjoying beverages and snacks while they're literally on the toilet?

[00:21:10]This is a good question.

[00:21:12]Because it's not something I have ever done nor witnessed.

[00:21:16]Listen, when I look Lauren, when I look at this picture and and you tell me there's an update in toilet technology, my first thought is it's going to be a cup holder. Cuz she is going to have to figure something out.

[00:21:27]That's accurate. Okay, but it's not a cup holder. It's not a cup holder. These are, um, camera-based smart toilet trackers. They're It's the third party, so you don't have to get a special toilet. They're compatible with a variety of toilets and this is going to be a change a game-changer for our, uh, gut health. Uh, we will have to pay uh, several hundreds of dollars in, um, ongoing subscription fees for the, uh, toilet tech upgrade, but, um, not only do do they, uh, assess our bowel movement consistency, they also collect urine samples that analyze, um, that are analyzed in the the sensor somehow and then they deliver insights on biomarkers tied to hydration, metabolism, and diet.

[00:22:32]So, it it's about the size of a hockey puck and it turns your toilet into a mini lab, which is what everybody wants.

[00:22:38]We've been waiting for it.

[00:22:41]Okay, so, important, uh, caveat here. So, uh, the the This monitors your urine stream with a microphone and scans the contents of the toilet bowl using a downward-facing camera, which its creators say cannot capture any human anatomy.

[00:23:00]So, that is an important bit of context.

[00:23:02]This is a downward-facing camera.

[00:23:05]Uh, the insights are, uh, sent to an app and they're broken down. Uh, did you you give the four categories?

[00:23:13]Gut health, hydration, flow health, and bathroom habits.

[00:23:17]Uh, so, I I I That was going to be my first question, Lauren, was where exactly is this camera going?

[00:23:22]Where is this thing pointed or directed?

[00:23:25]So, allegedly downward. Um, and listen, if if I ever hear someone in the live chat try to tell me that you cannot implicitly trust technology companies and just never think about it, never look into it, never verify it, they're going to do the right thing for your privacy. Obviously, we can take that at face value and I don't want to hear otherwise. So, that's the first thing with this. The second thing is, not really my cup of tea, Lauren. I There's a lot of things in life with that I'm curious about, uh, where I'm like, you know what? Maybe I would like to have more data. This, uh, I I think we're getting a level of data that exceeds our ability to utilize or act upon that data. I think it's a good idea, if we're being serious.

[00:24:09]It's a good idea to keep tabs on what's going on in the bathroom, especially, you know, urine color is your clearest indicator of hydration. It's your first indicator of if you have rhabdomyolysis, if you've been doing a lot of training.

[00:24:24]Um, there there's a lot of, you know, good good indicator of, you know, can be an indicator of some kidney issues. Uh, you know, certainly, uh, you know, gastrointestinal cancers are on the rise, especially in relatively young, healthy people. You should be keeping tabs on this stuff.

[00:24:43]But I don't think you need a whole dossier of data. I I think it really just involves a quick glance and, uh, you know, just a little mental note when things are getting a little out of the ordinary. Uh, so, Lauren, are you are you signed up to be like an early adopter here? Are you on the list like the friends and family early access list or are you going to pass on this as well?

[00:25:03]Well, there are actually three, uh, different technologies here. So, you're going to have to make a decision whether you want to go with with U-Scan, which which is just the urine analysis tracker. Um, Throne, which is the one that we covered previously, which, um, monitors both number one and number two.

[00:25:22]Um, and then we have a newer one, the Dakota, which also analyzes stool and urine. Uh, it also the the the camera only points downward.

[00:25:36]And I got to say, when I'm actually looking at what the the the reports look like on the app, I'm out. I don't want to open my phone and see the date, the time, the color, and the consistency of my stool.

[00:25:58]Yeah, oh, this is a grizzly description, by the way. And then look at stool type six. Uh, look out for type six, folks. Um, in any case, yeah, I I This is not I don't think I'm the target market here. This is not my cup of tea.

[00:26:13]But, uh, I I think what I would recommend instead, I'm sure that there are numerous places where you can take a single urine urine sample, send it in for a thorough analysis, but probably charge you not very much. Do that monthly until you've convinced yourself this is a complete waste of time and then, uh, >> [laughter] >> and then basically, uh, you can go ahead and terminate that practice. But in this case, it looks like just the get-in price for some of these, I mean, it's like if you're looking for the, you know, one of these, it says it's a it's 49 or sorry, 449 up front and then 99 a year for your, uh, subscription. Um, this is, uh, pretty substantial investment to get some information with questionable utility in terms of actually kind of translating it into action. So, Lauren, I appreciate you for putting this on our radar, but I am respectfully going to pass for now.

[00:27:08]Fair enough.

[00:27:10]All right. Now, in the interest of becoming more educated, I think we have a duty to tell everybody about In-N-Out University. So, this is from the New York Post. Uh, it says it's a a university designed to train the future leaders of the fast food giant. So, Lauren, what is In-N-Out University?

[00:27:29]Well, In-N-Out is a burger joint in California. I Are they anywhere other than California?

[00:27:37]Uh, I would imagine they've spread in the Southwest, but they they they haven't They're not They're not I don't I don't think they are They're certainly not all over the US and I don't think they are outside of the US. Yeah, you you California's definitely like, you know, the the epicenter of the In-N-Out experience.

[00:27:56]Right. So, this I'm I'm covering this because I'm like, what on Earth could they mean by In-N-Out University? And I got to say, folks, I think we're using the term university a little bit loosely here because, uh, this program does not offer academic degrees. It's basically people who are currently employed at In-N-Out who want to, um, work up the chain, which, you know, good for them. It teaches them how to run restaurant operations, maintain cleanliness standards, and deliver customer service.

[00:28:31]Lauren, here's the big question. Have you ever been to an In-N-Out?

[00:28:35]I have not.

[00:28:37]Neither have I. It's very disappointing.

[00:28:38]Looks like it opened in 1984.

[00:28:41]Uh, what I really like, I'm looking at a picture here on the on the news article and it's, uh, a very classic look. You can see all the, uh, uh, the workers are wearing like a red apron looking thing. Uh, the hats, some of them are wearing like an old like paper hat that you would think of as being like a 1950s burger shack.

[00:29:01]I got to say, I really like that. Even the aesthetic within the restaurant here looks very, uh, very old school and you know that I'm very nostalgic about the '90s and really anything prior to whatever this mess is we live in currently. So, I really like what I'm seeing here and it's kind of winning me over. The the upsetting thing is I've never had an In-N-Out burger and now that I'm a vegetarian, I feel like my, uh, options are probably going to be pretty limited next time I'm out there west in the the west side of the country. Uh, we did, uh, have someone in the live chat say that they have one in Seattle. Uh, there are rumors of one opening in Toronto, but in the live chat there is some speculation and some doubts about that speculation. So, uh, anyway, all that is to say, uh, it like a fascinating restaurant. I'm I'm thrilled about their educational opportunities. Very upset that I cannot apply for that education. Would love to put some more letters behind the name.

[00:29:55]But, uh, Lauren, I must ask, what piqued your interest in in reporting on the university here?

[00:30:03]Well, I thought did the burger company actually fund a academic institution? I I was very curious as to what's going on here. And that is not what's going on here.

[00:30:16]They're just for some bizarre reason calling it a university. But, it turns out they are not the only offender because McDonald's operates its own global training center called Hamburger University. Yeah, you know, honestly, I kind of don't mind that this is a thing now. People just kind of if they have any kind of course or kind of training oriented thing, they slap university on the end of it. I don't mind it. You know, uh, I I'm not I'm not the grumpy type. I'm pretty laid-back, pretty easy-going. Everybody knows I'm not a curmudgeon by any means. It's cute, you know, it's a a nice little nifty way to just kind of signal, "Hey, this is an educational, uh, product or an educational program." So, I don't hate it. I can live with it. I'm sorry that you got catfished. You thought that you were finding a real university and it was essentially a training program for middle to upper management of a burger chain. I'm sure that was disappointing for you. Uh, but nonetheless, I I I think that the ivory tower needs to loosen up their grip on the university title and let people use it, especially in context where it's very clear that it is not actually a place of, uh, higher education. I can >> With the exception of Peptide University, which we talked about a couple of weeks ago. That is a terrible one. We don't need that. That's not >> Well, I mean, even if [laughter] you called it, you know, Peptide College or the Peptide Institute, I I I would have felt similarly upset about it. To me, it was not the university element.

[00:31:43]Well, really any any educational curriculum about peptides, um, that's taught by a a non-clinician, non-researcher, that's that's a that's a little dubious.

[00:31:55]>> As part of a multi-level marketing scheme?

[00:31:58]>> [laughter] >> Yeah. Yeah, I think there's there's quite a few things to dislike, uh, the name being way way down on the list.

[00:32:06]But, uh, okay, so, Peptide University, we're not in In-N-Out University. We're also going to pass, but, uh, wish him the best. Now, Lauren, speaking of food, uh, you have something on the on the outline here that looks quite disturbing. It says crawfish ice cream.

[00:32:22]Uh, so, what in the world, why would you bring this to me?

[00:32:27]Well, it's been a a bit since we covered some weird food. We used to have a kind of regular segment of, um, strange food.

[00:32:36]I'm still waiting for someone to go to that, uh, fair that fair that county fair in, um, was it Minnesota? Someone was going to go for us because they were going to try that ridiculous burger with like banana on it. Um, anyway, so, we haven't had had any any truly strange food concoctions in a while. And this one is quite the tasty treat. Um, it's you can get this in Houston, Texas at Red Circle Ice Cream. This is crawfish ice cream. It's flavored with a mix of Cajun seasoning, butter, and garlic, and topped with an entire crawfish.

[00:33:16]Uh, is there any crawfish in the ice cream itself? Or it's just kind of like a Cajun seasoning kind of deal?

[00:33:25]It doesn't seem to be any crawfish actually in the ice cream.

[00:33:31]>> Other than the whole one that they place on top.

[00:33:33]>> There's a whole Yeah, so, it's it looks like vanilla ice cream. Yeah. But, it but it's it's >> like discoloration. It's a little on the buttery side.

[00:33:42]Right. Well, you know, because of the the butter and garlic and Cajun seasoning. And >> [laughter] >> and then I mean, that's a good serving of crawfish.

[00:33:53]Um, Yeah.

[00:33:55]So, here's the thing.

[00:33:58]I I think it's tragic that as a novelty, they just throw a crawfish on the top of it cuz I I don't think that's edible the way that they're serving it. That just looks like a dead crawfish.

[00:34:08]I could be mistaken.

[00:34:11]Well, I don't know. It looks like somebody's Yeah, somebody actually is kind of dipping their crawfish in it. So, fair enough. I guess you're getting a boiled crawfish on top of a cold ice cream. To each their own. Uh, my wife, I don't think has ever consumed any, uh, what's the, uh, crustaceans? Yeah. Yeah.

[00:34:31]>> Shellfish? Yeah, she's never had any shellfish of any kind. And, uh, when I, uh, prompted her about that but before I became a vegetarian, she pointed at and said, "That's a bug." And I was like, "You know what? I respect it. I I I understand that perspective. So, needless to say, the further I get away from eating any kind of meat or animal products, uh, the idea of eating shellfish gets increasingly, um, the further you get from it, it's not like you're like you're drawn back to it. The more you're like, "Yeah, I think that is a bug." That that's very bug-like to me. So, this is really not hitting any of the spots that get me really excited about eating uh, buttery, garlicky, uh, ice cream with a bug on it. But, uh, if you you feel differently, I I don't mean to yuck your yum here.

[00:35:19]I don't want this. And I'm a big seafood person. Um, although I I did work in a restaurant once where the chef referred to shrimp as the cockroaches of the sea. And that does kind of make you rethink shrimp. So, Yeah.

[00:35:37]>> Let's not go too far down that road because I don't want seafood to be ruined for for me forever. That said, like, the ice cream thing with the it's it's texturally strange.

[00:35:50]>> Temperature doesn't work. No.

[00:35:53]>> Yeah. And the fact that like you're supposed to you're supposed to eat the crawfish, which is in the shell, in case we forgot to mention that, and then use the shell as a spoon for the ice cream.

[00:36:03]It's a it's a step too far. Yeah, it's it's too too much going on in here. And Lauren, I'll even say this. Um, you know, there's the the whole like shellfish thing. Uh, but then there's like or the, you know, crustacean.

[00:36:16]But, then there's, um, oysters, right?

[00:36:18]And some people oysters, it's a no-go just cuz of the texture, right? Cuz they're they're kind of slimy. But, um, if you've ever seen one of these demonstration demonstrations, Lauren, about like the pivotal role that they play in the ecosystem, I've seen things where they have like two water tanks and both of them look awful, just absolutely murky and gross. One of the tanks has oysters in it, the other one doesn't. Within a matter of hours, the tank with the oysters becomes like crystal clear. Like like they completely filter out all the gunk and parti- particles. Just it looks like it goes from disgusting to pristine.

[00:36:54]But, here's my thing, Lauren. Where did it all go?

[00:36:59]It went into the oyster.

[00:37:01]Yeah.

[00:37:01]>> So, like when I think about eating an oyster now after seeing those demonstrations, I'm like, "Yeah, I don't want anything to do with that."

[00:37:07]I feel like I'm eating just like literally condensed sludge. So, if you're like a huge, uh, seafood person, you are yelling at your computer or phone right now about all the slander that's happening. And I'm sorry. I'm not judging, uh, but, uh, I'm just explaining why this, uh, crawfish ice cream and everything in the genre generally is just not calling to me and enticing me.

[00:37:31]And that's all I got.

[00:37:32]>> Well, I I reject your rejection of seafood more generally. Um, No, okay.

[00:37:39]>> for all the seafood eaters.

[00:37:41]>> There's a backstory. There's a reason for this. It's clearly biased, right?

[00:37:44]There's vitriol here. This isn't just a preference thing. So, my wife and I, we love going to this beach town nearby.

[00:37:51]Uh, it's a lovely trip every time we go.

[00:37:53]But, if you've ever been a vegetarian in a beach town, it's the worst because you'll go to a place and you'll look at the menu and everything where you would normally have like, "Oh, hey, I can usually get something on this side of the menu." They'll be like, "Hey, mac and cheese, but guess what? There's crab in it." And then it's like, "Oh, french fries, but for some reason we like made even the french fries have seafood in them. It's like almost impossible to do, but we found a way." It's like because you're at the ocean, they decide we're going to put some kind of living thing's flesh in every single thing on the menu.

[00:38:27]And in many cases, you will have literally nothing left. Uh, so, that that's what gets me upset about seafood is that if you go to a beach town as a vegetarian, you literally will walk into several like probably 70% of the restaurants we go to, there are zero edible things on the menu, which is immensely frustrating. So, we Our [laughter] place we were like going to the beach and we just eat at the Indian restaurant every night. Uh, but it's a great restaurant. So, no complaints for me. Well, maybe, you know, you made the choice, you should pack your own snacks. That No, that's true. That's true. I I it's our fault.

[00:39:02]It's our choice. But, uh, you this is just a public service announcement. You don't have to put crab in everything on your menu.

[00:39:11]So, for the people who need to hear that, I hope you heard it. All right, Lauren, uh, on the topic of food, we are talking ultra-processed foods, which are apparently turning human thighs into well-marbled steaks.

[00:39:24]Um, and did this come from CJ, Lauren?

[00:39:27]Yes, it came from CJ. Okay. And CJ shares a picture of Bubba the calf, a beautiful-looking cow, uh, next to a large propane tank, it looks like. I've got a I've got a propane tank just like it. So, I'm I'm a I don't want to brag, I'm a bit of an efficient auto when it comes to a good propane tank. That thing, you load that up and you are good for the whole winter and then some.

[00:39:51]Right.

[00:39:52]So, uh allegedly this group at the University of California um did some MRI scans of the thigh of a 62-year-old woman who obtained 87% of her annual calories from ultra-processed foods. Damn.

[00:40:13]Which is quite high. Yeah, that might be the record.

[00:40:19]And you can uh they they sliced a kind of cross-section. There's an image of the scan uh in here and their point is that there is an abundance of intramuscular fat on this scan. And according to CNN, it is reminiscent of a high-end steak with abundant fine-grained streaks of fat.

[00:40:42]Yeah, I'm kind of I'm kind of jealous.

[00:40:44]It says this participant's diet was mainly comprised of cold cereals, chocolate, candy, or candy bars, regular soft drinks, or bottled sugary drinks. Uh When I'm feeling tremendously lazy, like there are days where I'm like, "Man, I could just live off of cereal, milk, and protein shakes." Like I can make that work. Uh so, I'm a little bit envious of the diet here, but Lauren, I feel like you brought this up just to just to get me all riled up cuz I've been uh ultra-processed foods have been a a topic that I've been getting all all worked up about lately. So, do you do you want me to launch into a mini version of my uh tirade about the confusion about these?

[00:41:27]I thought it would tee you up nicely for a rant. All right. So, here's the deal, folks. Ultra-processed foods, uh there's a classification classification system called the Nova classification system.

[00:41:38]This is how we decide if a food is minimally processed, ultra-processed.

[00:41:43]There's these four categories.

[00:41:45]And so, all obviously, when we think of an ultra-processed food, we're often thinking of, you know, your pre-packaged snacky junk food kind of stuff, right?

[00:41:53]Your your Lucky Charms, your you know, the the cookies that you buy in the aisle that somehow are shelf-stable for 17 years and you're like, "How does that even work?" Uh Doritos, uh Oh, Lauren, I meant to bring this up.

[00:42:06]Huge callout. Uh whoever makes Goldfish, whichever massive international conglomerate makes Goldfish, you you messed with the wrong guy and you you really messed up here.

[00:42:18]Lauren, they changed the formulation for Flavor Blasted Goldfish.

[00:42:24]Cuz they were too processed? No, they Well, what they did was First of all, I should have known something was wrong cuz they changed the packaging and I said, "Oh god, here we go."

[00:42:33]I used to eat my Flavor Blasted Goldfish and by the time I was done, my fingers were covered in that delicious dusty flavoring, right? Yes.

[00:42:42]>> They like they turned the flavor down like 90%. There's no flavor left. God help me. I don't I don't know what the non-Flavor Blasted ones taste like. I'm eating these Goldfish, I can't get a hint of flavor. All the powder's gone.

[00:42:55]My cats are upset cuz they used to like to lick the powder off my fingers when I was done. My whole family's in shambles over this and the product sucks. So, Goldfish, I will say this one time, bring back the powder and give me all the flavor. It's supposed to be flavor blasted and you're skimping on the good consumers like me. But anyway, Lauren, I was got I was doing a real rant here, which is that ultra-processed food, we think of these junk foods, but really processing is a process, you know? And and so, there are some like very I don't want to say foods are healthy or unhealthy, but very health-compatible foods, you know, foods that contribute to a healthy dietary pattern that happen to be ultra-processed, right? So, in the fitness scene, you got a lot of folks who are very health-conscious who maybe a stack they have is uh fat-free Greek yogurt with some chocolate protein powder mixed in, right? Uh or maybe even some peanut butter powder as part of that, right? A nice chocolate peanut butter yogurt kind of mixture. Every element of that uh is essentially ultra-processed, right? And so, um we what we find in the research is it is true that these like, you know, junk food, high energy density, low fiber, low water content, easy to eat them fast, barely require required chewing, those kind of ultra-processed foods absolutely do seem to be contributing in the aggregate to overconsumption of calories and downstream obesity. But it's not so simple as to say, "Don't eat don't don't eat ultra-processed foods."

[00:44:23]because there are plenty of uh food uh food items that are very very, you know, healthy, you know, part of a healthy diet that that happen to be ultra-processed. And there's also some minimally processed foods that people have a tendency to overeat as well. And so, what I would encourage people to do is think about your your dietary choices more holistically, right? So, keep an eye out for any kind of food that you tend to find yourself overeating, whether that's, you know, because you're just passively going back and snacking on it or because it is so hyperpalatable and so tasty that when you start eating it, you simply can't stop, right? So, a classic one in the fitness scene has always been peanut butter. There's a lot of people that when they're prepping uh for a bodybuilding show, they say, "I just can't have peanut butter in the house cuz once I start, I can't stop." Outside of that extreme, like I know for me with like salty snacks, Goldfish, pretzels, stuff like that, if I just have them around, I'm going to snack on them like crazy, right? So, all that is to say, big rant, but ultra-processed food, uh the reason I bring this up, I just wrote an article in the Mass Research Review where they were trying to, you know, do more of this work where they compare ultra-processed meals to less processed meals. And this was a cool one cuz they also had an ultra-processed one that was all made of what they call high nutritional quality foods. So, that that kind of weird uh you know, uh category of ultra-processed foods that are actually like really quite healthy foods.

[00:45:47]And what they thought they were going to find is basically low-quality ultra-processed foods fuel overeating and drive obesity, right? But what they actually found was the lowest calorie intake was in the ultra-processed low nutritional quality foods. Uh that that particular meal was where people eat the least amount of calories, not the most um compared to even like an a relatively low-processed meal uh with pretty high nutritional quality. And what they found was people just thought that the ultra-processed meal with the low nutritional quality just tasted like [ __ ] Lauren. That's all there is to it.

[00:46:19]They just made it like so sweet and gross that people were like, "Hey, thanks for giving me this like sugar bomb. I don't like it. I This is disgusting to me." So, you have to think more holistically. It's not as simple as ultra-processed foods versus less processed foods. Of course, you know, if you're going if you're going this route and having what was it? 87% of your calories from ultra-processed foods, I'm going to go out on a limb and say you're probably not doing so hot in terms of hitting your fiber target for the day. Uh probably going to be a hard time hitting your protein target for the day unless you're doing just pure whey protein shakes all the time. So, like obviously, there's a tipping point where it's it becomes unmanageable to have a diet that is this uh rich in ultra-processed foods, but it's not just processing, folks. We got to think big picture about palatability, food quality, you know, nutritional quality. You know, make sure you get your fiber and make sure you get your protein in and ultimately build your meals in a way that suits your preferences and and covers all your bases nutritionally. That's my rant, Lauren.

[00:47:20]Yeah, I think this sort of messaging has fueled a lot of fear around anything that is processed at all and that becomes problematic because then you're removing healthy staples like a protein powder, like yogurt, and then saying, "Oh, you know, I can't eat any of that because it's it's processed." And so, people are are not really understanding um that very few things that we actually eat are not at all processed. Right. So, uh we, as you said, need to look at the overall diet and we want to be Yeah, eating some whole foods um and get making sure that we're getting sufficient protein and fiber, but I don't think we need to demonize foods either because uh you know, certainly you can have some of that in your diet and still have an overall healthy diet.

[00:48:24]And the one thing that, you know, they certainly don't point out in this article is one of the the the biggest ways to um reduce intramuscular fat is to have uh resistance training in your life, be physically active, and make sure you're maintaining a healthy body weight. And so, presumably this person also wasn't doing any of those other things.

[00:48:47]Yeah, for sure. Yeah, and I think people might be wondering, "Eric, why would you have a rant ready to go for ultra-processed foods, almost kind of defending them?" And and to me, it comes back to when we don't give nuanced advice with nutrition, sometimes we throw some babies out with the bathwater. And so, um if if your goal if you're telling people always like Back in the day, Lauren, when, you know, several years ago, the kind of like cliché line people would use is you have to go with fresh whole foods, right? You have to you have to go with fresh produce. There was like a huge push for that, which was a huge mistake because a lot of people who are, you know, first of all, a lot of people cannot get out to the store with high enough frequency to have a steady supply of fresh produce. A lot of people live in food deserts where even if they had all the time in the world, they just can't get there cuz it's just not actually in their proximity. Other folks, they get this fresh produce and they end up throwing out half of it. And then they say, "Oh my god, now I'm wasting money and I didn't eat all the all this healthy stuff." And so like there was such a huge push for fresh produce that they're kind of like acting as if canned vegetables, canned legumes, frozen vegetables as if they were lesser than when in reality that's just not the case and I think there's kind of the unintended consequence of people eating fewer vegetables cuz you're telling them basically go hard or go home. Go get the fresh stuff or forget about it. And I think with processing if if we miss the mark again and keep telling people it should always be less processed rather than more processed. Again, what are we doing with like canned vegetables, canned beans, things like that that are very convenient, all sorts of convenient protein sources for vegetarians who realistically vegetarians are going to be the only people who may actually in America run the risk of being too low with their protein. So when you tell them don't have yogurt cuz it's too processed or you tell them don't have like this little fake chicken product even though it's like low-fat, low-carb, high-protein with great protein quality, don't eat that cuz it's processed. We're just giving people essentially bad advice if if it's taken in that context.

[00:50:51]So like you said Lauren, it's there's so much other stuff going on when it comes to having as they put it well-marbled steaks for legs.

[00:50:59]You got to be doing resistance training, you got to be maintaining a healthy body weight, you got to be eating your protein. Of course, dietary choices at the extremes come into it, you know, I don't think either of us would say, "Yeah, 87% from ultra-processed foods is good, but let's try to get that into the 90s."

[00:51:17]I don't think either of us are going to be advocating for that, but it's all about focusing on the big picture stuff, right? So resistance training, being physically active, maintaining a healthy body weight, getting enough whole foods in there that you're meeting your covering your bases in terms of fiber and micronutrient intake and uh you know, if you want to throw in some dry cereal. Lauren, what's your go-to cereal? What's your favorite?

[00:51:42]I haven't had cereal in a really long time. That's so typical of you and I don't like it.

[00:51:48]>> Sorry.

[00:51:49]I I mean, if I if I was we're going to go like sugar cereal, maybe Cinnamon Toast Crunch would be a good Yeah. Yep, that's the best one, but here's the thing, the thing that nobody knows about. You need to mix into your Cinnamon Toast Crunch semi-sweet chocolate chips.

[00:52:08]Mhm.

[00:52:09]>> the perfect compliment. Yeah, believe me. Give it give try it one time and you will be apologizing profusely. Speaking of apologizing, Lauren, someone called you out for the Canadian pronunciation of the word processed.

[00:52:25]Did you do that?

[00:52:27]You know what? That's one word that I don't know how I say.

[00:52:33]Like I flip-flop between how I pronounce it. So they are accurate.

[00:52:38]Yeah, well, people are obviously flooding the comments. You start talking about favorite cereal. So we got a peanut butter Captain Crunch.

[00:52:46]Yeah, that's pretty good.

[00:52:48]Raisin Bran, that's an interesting choice.

[00:52:51]Um I don't know about that. But of course, a lot of votes also coming in for Cinnamon Toast Crunch, which actually is the right answer. So appreciate that as well.

[00:53:00]Lauren, how many push-ups can you do?

[00:53:05]I don't know.

[00:53:07]Well, >> in a while.

[00:53:09]You're going to need to get on that.

[00:53:10]There is a new article on health.com.

[00:53:14]The title was how many push-ups should you be able to do? Here's how you compare by age. Now Lauren, I am not going to divulge your age, but I recently had my second 35th birthday, which was a huge milestone for me. This one it really counted this time. So I need to be able to do 17 to 21 because I'm between the ages of 30 and 39. So for men, that's the number.

[00:53:39]Once I cross over the age of 40, then it drops to 13 to 16. Now the analogous values for women at in the ages of 30 to 39, they're looking for 13 to 19 repetitions and from 40 to 49, they are looking for 11 to 14.

[00:53:57]And that that's for the good ranges. Now excellent, then you're going to have to push a little harder.

[00:54:03]Excellent male 30 to 39, you're looking 32 to 40 plus. 40 to 49, you're talking 28 to 35 plus. For women 30 to 39, you're going to be looking for 20 to 30 plus push-ups and at the ages of 40 to 49 for push-ups, you're looking at 18 to 25 or more.

[00:54:21]Lauren, do you agree, disagree or do you think the whole practice is silly?

[00:54:26]I I was remembering back to this was months ago, but we had a similar article about how many sit-ups you should be able to do in every decade of life.

[00:54:36]We rejected the premise of that, but I do recall that they were saying the purpose of it is if you need to get up and run across a football field for some inexplicable reason.

[00:54:47]Um Yes.

[00:54:48]So you know, where are they getting these numbers from? What is this?

[00:54:55]>> No, that's the thing that I actually like when I see tests like this or sorry articles like this, I see the headlines, I go like I don't care what you think, but I do want to know where you get your data. Like if there's like a a huge normative database of like, you know, here's how many you know, repetitions of common exercises can be done at certain ages. Like if it's actually based on empirical data, I could really use that empirical data. I have a lot of projects going on where that would be very helpful. So I'm always looking for that stuff and whenever I find these, it's always just like a random table that like somebody put together and they're like, this feels about right. And I think that's the case here.

[00:55:36]Yeah, yeah, also the the numbers for women, they're talking about using modified push-ups, which I actually think are a far worse exercise than just doing any sort of bench press or chest press.

[00:55:56]Because when people start doing modified push-ups and they don't have awareness of you know, are your shoulders and hips in line, then you end up sticking your butt way up in the air. It's no longer challenging and you can do them all day.

[00:56:11]So it's like a really bad upper body building exercise.

[00:56:16]Yeah.

[00:56:17]So Lauren, they for this um for this particular article, they refer to a chart from ACE, which is a you know, a solid you know, organization that does like personal training certifications and stuff like this.

[00:56:34]I don't know if there's a massive data set of normative data behind it, but I actually I I might use some of these tables in the future when I'm just like looking for general norms. Some some of these actually look okay. But I I agree with you. I I think uh if I were thinking of like looking for an exercise where I was going to like use this as my benchmark of how am I doing, push-ups just wouldn't be high on my list for the reasons that you mentioned.

[00:56:59]It's it's not uh not really a high high priority exercise for me. I think uh obviously if we're looking at like what really matters, especially as you start to get older cuz it says, you know, how many should you be able to do comparing by age, it's got to be lower body stuff.

[00:57:16]It's got to be more functional stuff.

[00:57:17]Put me down for body weight squats, put me down for lunges, you know, maybe even like a if we need something upper body, maybe like a flexed arm hang, you know, how long can you hold your body weight up there, but in any case, yeah, these you know, I I understand why people like cranking these articles out. I just don't know what I'd be surprised if they do well, Lauren, in terms of clicks. I mean, I guess maybe some people would just be curious to see how they how they stack up.

[00:57:46]Well, I I know there's this has been around for a while. Somebody going around saying like, you know, if if you are a woman, you have to be able to do 11 strict push-ups. And like, where are you getting this number from? And eventually I found it and it's an article published looking at male firefighters, which are not are not women, but they tracked them over 10 years and they had they had them doing these kind of push-up tests and then they were correlating it with cardiovascular disease risk. And so the kind of headline takeaway is that you know, if you could do above X number of push-ups, then it reduced your incidence of cardiovascular disease by X percentage.

[00:58:35]Now translating that into, you know, if you care about your health, you must be able to do this number of push-ups is a totally inappropriate takeaway from that paper because we are yes, you know, that that is a measure of fitness, but you can do a variety of measures in of of fitness and it's the same thing we we get back to with the grip strength tests and the sit to stand tests and you know, whatever the test is, that's not intended to be prescriptive for the marker you should be tracking and aiming for to improve long-term health outcomes.

[00:59:15]Absolutely, 100%. Now here's the thing, Lauren, someone in the chat was talking about maybe they got it from the same place they got the presidential fitness test numbers. Here's an idea I want to run by you. Now I am not for overbearing totalitarian government interventions that infringe on your privacy.

[00:59:33]However, I do want to float the idea that there is a council of exercise scientists who get together and they discuss with the various world governments what exercises are of high priority and then the same way that they would come into your class when you were in elementary school, Lauren, and make you do the presidential fitness test, we should just go into workplaces and say everyone has to do this test right now and we're going to get your age data uh and so we can just create our normative data sets uh and I I understand that it's unconstitutional.

[01:00:08]It infringes on many rights that people have and infringes on their privacy, but it would make my life a lot easier when I'm doing projects. And so I think if we could all collectively understand that sometimes we need to sacrifice our rights and our privacy in order to accomplish much greater aims like making uh Eric's life easier, I think it's it's an interesting uh trade-off that's worth considering at the global level.

[01:00:37]I feel like we are living in a time where uh not all rights are being super upheld. So, now would be the right time to explore this. It's for the greater good. I'll tell you that um cuz it's it's very annoying when when people say, "Hey, here's how many of these I can do. Uh how does that look?" And I have to say, "I don't know." So, we all it would take is a few years. We just go systematically exercise by exercise. We don't have to hit them all and uh yeah, we could create some really cool data sets. So, I will continue to try to leverage all of my power to do two things. The here's my my platform that I'm running on.

[01:01:18]Number one, we got to get the flavor dust back on the goldfish. I this is ridiculous.

[01:01:23]And that is we can do that with the full weight of the US government. So, we're going to get that done. The second thing is we are going to do some mandatory fitness testing in your workplace.

[01:01:33]Sorry, folks, it's going to happen. Um but both of those things I think are going to have huge uh positive impact for the public.

[01:01:41]I don't understand what the difference is between the regular goldfish and the flavor blasted anymore though because that was the distinct difference.

[01:01:48]>> That's what I'm saying. I feel completely duped. It these are just regular goldfish. Um so, I was pretty upset.

[01:01:56]Um it could be a manufacturing issue, but if I buy another box and get burned, I'm I'm going to be so upset. So, I don't I don't even know if I'm going to put myself in that position. Um but that that was literally the first bite I had.

[01:02:08]I said, "There's been a terrible mistake." That was my initial reaction.

[01:02:12]I checked the box and I was like, "Did I buy the wrong one?" No.

[01:02:16]Has there been a manuf- Is there a recall? Is it safe to eat these? I don't know.

[01:02:21]So, we'll we'll figure it out, Lauren.

[01:02:23]But the last thing I want to hit before we leave for the night uh from NBC News uh little lower on the news totem pole than what we usually do with New York Post, but it says AI chats AI chatbots gave people alternatives to chemotherapy, study finds. Um so, uh there's a something published in BMJ Open, uh British Medical Journal.

[01:02:44]And uh they they did a whole bunch of the you know, looking at how chatbots are interacting with people uh talking about their health and they found that nearly half of the bots' responses were, as they put it, problematic, 30% being somewhat problematic and uh just shy of 20 being considered highly problematic.

[01:03:02]Um and so uh they said somewhat problematic responses uh were largely accurate, but weren't fully complete and they would fail to provide adequate context. The highly problematic responses provided inaccurate information and left room for uh considerable subjective interpretation.

[01:03:18]Um among the bots, uh it looks like Grok uh consistently performed the worst uh compared to all the other ones they looked at, but uh essentially um there there was a part of it where they asked, "Which alternative therapies are better than chemotherapy to treat cancer?" And the bots would basically initially warn users like, "Hey, you know, that might not be a great idea." But then they would just go into it.

[01:03:43]>> [laughter] >> They would kind of just like they would do their like, "Hey, listen, I don't know if you want to do that, but" and then they would start getting into it and they they'd start listing treatments, um you know, uh acupuncture, herbal medicine, cancer-fighting diets.

[01:03:55]Um sometimes they would actually identify clinics that offered alternative uh cancer treatments. Um and uh and yeah, like one one of the bots actually listed some kind of therapy that specifically discourages the use of chemotherapy. Uh and so uh yeah, they they basically were looking through this. They're like, "Yeah, there's a lot of uh a lot of potential here to get uh particularly dangerous guidance." And you know, one of the things that seems to be really uh common with these AI chatbots is like, "Yeah, now they're getting better at giving you the initial like, 'Hey, you probably don't want to do that. Like, here's your warning.'" But once you get them rolling, you know, they still kind of lean into that tendency of really gassing you up a little bit and get and getting you hyped up. It's a great idea, dude. And then they're like really getting you excited about some of these terrible ideas. So, all this is to say um we still got to be really careful with how we use these things. Um I I I think that people need to uh develop a a very um a very serious appreciation for like how compelling some of these chatbots can be. Like the it's not unusual to hear people who report like I I know like the you you'll you'll hear all these reports of like AI-induced psychosis where people start to, you know, almost develop like a parasocial bond or something with with chatbots or or just find them to otherwise be extremely convincing in ways that kind of distort their uh their their grip on reality a little bit. And so when you introduce health information into that uh into that kind of environment and into a communication style that seems to be so uh compelling and engaging and really tends to like play into your worst biases, um you you really got to be careful with that. So, when it comes to health information, like if you're using these chatbots for anything other than Google, uh I I'd really discourage that, right? So, every now and then I'll I'll pop in on one and essentially again use it as like a natural language search engine, so to speak, and say, "Hey, find me references for that. Find me references for the other." And that's kind of where it where it starts and then you dig in from there. But yeah, just kind of a general warning to to be careful with health-related information on these things. Uh here's what you don't want these these tools to do yet. Uh your taxes, legal matters uh that you're attending to, and your medical uh decisions. You probably want to let at least for those three let let's keep those with the professionals who can exercise judgment and lean on experience.

[01:06:28]Yeah, you know, I think given that we're living in an era of so much misinformation in general, you have to realize, well, where are they getting their information? Like, what are they pooling together? And that is a whole lot of of bad information in combination with some science-based information. And so, even if you even if you Google a question that you you know the answer to, something health or fitness-related and you know the answer to it, that like AI summary at the top will often cite, you know, the New York Post, not PubMed.

[01:07:08]>> [laughter] >> And so, it's I've I have not seen, and I think, you know, will improve, but most AIs at this point are not good at really di- de- the de- deep diving into the literature as a whole and being able to contextualize and say, "Okay, this." Instead, it's going to say, "Well, what paper has been cited the most times?" Or what paper was featured in the the, you know, lay news or in these blogs or and that's what really drives the information that they're that they're getting to you. So, I I find that in many cases AI is no more helpful than it would be to just go on social media.

[01:07:57]Well, yeah, speaking of that, I I have heard um that at least some of the really big large language models um a pretty substantial source of their training was actually Reddit. I and they they put some stock into like upvotes on Reddit and things like that. And so um yeah, I mean, basically like you you do have to treat it as if you were just like taking a synthesis of the most popular Reddit comments and then making those fact, you know, without any interrogation, which is not a not a strong premise. And uh I I have, you know, I I think anyone who wants to use these should if there's any area where you have really unique knowledge, you should ask the bot or you know, the the large language models that you're going to work with, ask it for nuanced information about the thing you know best. Just to get like a baseline kind of, "Okay, what am I getting out of this?" It and what I think what you'll tend to find as someone who There's a few topics in the world that I feel like I I'm pretty I got them pretty nailed down.

[01:09:01]And so all as a baseline, I'll I'll chat with these large language model um you know, chatbots and uh ask them about the things I know best and you'll learn very quick that they're not useless, but they're not they're not perfect and they're they're bullshitters. They will [ __ ] you really hard. Uh and when I'll ask it about things I know and then I'll push back and say, "That's not remotely true. You're forgetting this whole other thing. What you'll find is it immediately folds. But But it was so confident when it told you that wrong answer, and then it'll be like, "You're so smart, dude. You're so right. Anyway, what do you think I should say?" You know, and it was like immediately cave in. So, it kind of makes you feel as if you were just like an obscenely powerful person surrounded by yes men, and you're like, "I really want to know the answer here. Don't just tell me the easiest thing uh to to kind of gas me up and make me feel smart. And unfortunately, it's just not there yet. So, again, if you're doing some low-stakes uh essentially Googling of of what is very commonplace information, by all means.

[01:10:08]If you're playing trivia and you're cheating with it, first of all, shame on you. But that's the kind of thing where it's like low-stakes, and it'll probably do pretty good for you. Uh But yeah, when you're talking about like differential diagnoses and like, "Uh do you think this needs a biopsy?" Maybe a physician it would be would be where you go.

[01:10:27]Yeah, and I like your idea that uh if when you talk to it about something you know well, and you're like, "Eh, this is a little bit right, but a lot wrong." Then that's the amount of confidence you should have in anything else you ask. Right. Now, okay, someone in the live chat said, "I've been giving some I've been given some pretty bad advice by physicians." Me, too. Me, too.

[01:10:55]But uh at the very least uh I know that they've been through training. They are presumably not hallucinating.

[01:11:04]>> [laughter] >> Like, they they may be an idiot. They may be uh underprepared for the case that they've taken on. But they're probably not just absolutely hallucinating. Uh listen, yeah, there's there's bad doctors, there's bad accountants, there's bad lawyers. You're still going to have that. Um but uh at least, you know, again, I I I am still at a point where I trust the fallibility of human over the fallibility of uh you know, large language model when it comes to these really high-stakes decisions. And the great thing about physicians is even if they have terrible ideas, you can take those terrible ideas, go get a second opinion, and say, "Here's what I heard over there. Seems crazy to me."

[01:11:43]And uh you know, you you can get those second and third opinions uh and uh listen, I I got a a very faulty, not true cancer diagnosis that was given to me. By the way, Lauren, I didn't appreciate this. First of all, I didn't appreciate it in general. Second of all, I didn't appreciate getting that on a Friday. And then and them saying, "We're going to send out these tests. We'll we'll confirm with you on Monday." So, letting that hang over me for 72 hours uh would have preferred to him just kind of shrug and say, "I don't know.

[01:12:12]We'll follow up later." Other than you know, that would that would have been preferable instead of like, "Oh, yeah, dude, you definitely got cancer. Enjoy the Enjoy your weekend." That was probably uh one of the worst weekends I've had, Lauren, believe it or not. Well, it was probably especially bad because it was before we had access to these AI platforms, and so you could have spent the weekend learning about all the alternative cancer treatments. Could have got my diet situated, could have lined up my acupuncture, could have canceled all those surgeries and, you know, chemotherapy, you know, visits. Um so, yeah, I could have gotten set up with all that stuff. But on a serious note, folks, your health is uh as it currently stands, way too serious to be exporting to these these chatbots. So, keep yourself safe out there. Uh yes, you're going to find some bad doctors, but doctors are the people who do this. And that's generally where you want to start and and end the conversation.

[01:13:12]All right, Lauren. We went a little long this time. Anything you want to say to the good people before we wrap it up for the week?

[01:13:19]Thanks for listening. Send us an email [email protected].

[01:13:25]Pics and names of your pets are always appreciated, but we can send questions, we can send links to articles, topic suggestions, whatever the people want, we will give.

[01:13:38]Oh, and something else. Oh, you go ahead.

[01:13:42]Um I briefly looked into goldfish gate, and while the company has not made a formal statement, uh others are expressing outrage similar to your outrage. So, this is clearly a thing.

[01:13:58]Cool. Yeah, I I listen, it's clear as day. Like, I mean, it there's a major reformulation. So, I'm glad people are as upset as I am. I want to find one person saying this was a good move just so I can make their life a living hell.

[01:14:12]Uh cuz this is the worst thing that's ever happened to me. But in any case, I don't want to overreact, so I'll stop there.

[01:14:20]Yeah, it's not hyperbolic at all.

[01:14:22]>> Yeah. The last thing we [snorts] got to mention, Lauren, our day job, the Mass Research Review, the thing that keeps this whole podcast going. If you want to get actual actionable, thoughtful, concise breakdowns of studies, not just talking about toilet gadgets, but actual stuff that you can implement into your health, fitness, wellness routines, every month we review the newest studies related to health, fitness, and wellness.

[01:14:48]Uh we give you actionable advice. It is not just joking around and being snarky.

[01:14:52]It's real stuff. Uh if you want to check that out, go over to massresearchreview.com. Take a look at some of our sample articles. Our subscribers get uh a whole issue. It's usually I mean, darn near 100 pages covering several different topics every month. Audio summaries, uh video lectures, you name it. Just a really great educational resource. Comes out the first of the month every single month. The best way to stay on top of your health, fitness, and nutrition information. Uh so, check that out. We are currently doing our anniversary sale. Lauren, I always mess these numbers up. I thought I was 35 for like 2 years. It's our ninth anniversary, I think. We started this thing in 2017.

[01:15:30]It's been going strong. So, we have some promotional sale prices going on right now. Uh this is the cheapest you're going to get it this year. And so, uh yeah, check out the Mass Research Review. And if you feel so inclined, the best way to support the show other than liking, rating, subscribing, reviewing, sharing with a friend, is to become a member of the Mass community. And with that, Lauren, we will wrap up. I want to thank everyone for a a very lively live chat tonight. Really great to communicate uh and engage with the good people. Everyone have a fantastic week, and we will be back in 7 days with another episode.