Revolutionary Pushback: Past and Present

Added: 2026-05-05

[00:00:01]Good morning to everyone. Hello.

[00:00:07]Um I just realized why um when uh I begin anything online, I always do this because the first thing you see is it says YOU'RE LIVE exclamation point.

[00:00:24]And so my response is always I'm live.

[00:00:27]Um hopefully I'm live. Hopefully you guys can see me since I'm I'm kind of banking on that fact. Can you guys see me? Am I visible?

[00:00:37]Say yes, please. Um, hi. Good morning. Okay, so you guys can see me. Hi. Thank you. Okay, good.

[00:00:47]Excellent. Uh, and there is Annie uh who we will actually do this to.

[00:00:59]Hi. Good morning.

[00:01:02]>> Good morning.

[00:01:03]>> But you know. Oh, hang on a sec. Hang on.

[00:01:07]>> Okay. Hi, everybody. You guys were already busy chatting before we even logged in. I just noticed.

[00:01:14]>> I know. I know. They they Well, they always are. And it always puts me in a panic. I'm always like, >> especially I thought today there'd be like a low turnout because we switched days on them, but nope. They're here.

[00:01:27]>> No. Everybody here.

[00:01:30]>> That's right. You have mood lighting.

[00:01:32]Uh, >> I do. I have like weird hotel lighting.

[00:01:34]I tried to fix it and I gave up.

[00:01:38]>> That's okay. I had mood lighting the other night from Mount Vernon, so it's all over piece. Good morning, Annie.

[00:01:44]>> Oh, how was Mount Vernon? Was it fun?

[00:01:47]>> It was. It was good.

[00:01:51]>> Oh, man. Okay, hang on. Gotta find one more thing. Hold on.

[00:01:57]I don't hear Rosie. I thought she'd be >> Oh, she's there. She's uh she's watching. I'm sure she'll at some point we'll get roused and >> Yeah.

[00:02:07]>> going about something and um she'll have something to say for sure. I just need I have not had any coffee yet.

[00:02:14]>> I haven't either.

[00:02:17]>> I know. I know. Hotel life, you know.

[00:02:20]Yesterday when I did my my conversation with Heather, um I also hadn't had coffee yet. So, um >> it is. It is totally. We'll give it another moment or two for more people to come. So, you're to lunch with your buddy David. He was um hosting a little bagel bar which was very swanky at OH.

[00:02:46]>> David Blight was um he's helping OAH out with a K12 book club to try and get more K12 teachers involved with OA.

[00:02:55]>> So they did they started a book club and so they had a little book club suare and instead of sandwiches they had a bagel bar. It was so cool. They had >> nice like when people are have like tools hanging with those little hooks and those weird boards that have the holes in them. I think there's a name for that. I'm sure >> pegboard or something like that. And and they hang like their hammers and their saws on it. Well, instead they hung bagels on there and then they had fixings bar underneath. It was so creative.

[00:03:23]>> It was really fun.

[00:03:24]>> Oh, how nice.

[00:03:26]>> Yeah. And he he's of course always fun.

[00:03:28]So, >> yes.

[00:03:30]>> Yeah. Turning the sound.

[00:03:32]>> Turning the sound. There we go. Off on my phone. I always when I don't do that then I always think I'm going to be one of my students who in the middle of a lecture like they're >> Yep.

[00:03:43]>> I do that when I go into these conferences because I'm afraid during somebody's session I'll my phone will go off.

[00:03:50]>> Oh, I know. Actually, what I'm at some point I don't remember. It's a long time ago but I still remember it so I must have been traumatized.

[00:03:56]My stomach was growling so loudly, like so loudly. And I think that someone I can't remember, but someone in the row with me could like hear and I and like there's nothing you could do. Like I was holding my breath. I was holding my There's like nothing you could do to make that.

[00:04:13]>> Yeah.

[00:04:13]>> Wow.

[00:04:15]So, um, >> um, you got but you guys do you get here early and then you're all talking to each other and then, you know, I I begin to get ready to beam in and I do I panic. Oh my god, they're here.

[00:04:31]>> You gotta find your mug cover.

[00:04:33]>> I That was what I just ran to get.

[00:04:35]>> Yeah. Yeah, that's what I figured when you came back. I was like, ah, she had to get the mug reveal cover.

[00:04:39]>> I I had to have the mug reveal cover.

[00:04:42]>> That's fun. So, do you have any more travels for a while or get do you stay put for a little while?

[00:04:47]>> Uh, I do have travels. The my next big travel is Alaska.

[00:04:55]>> Wow.

[00:04:56]>> I don't know if anyone here is from Alaska. It never occurred to me, but >> people in the past I couldn't tell you their names, but I know we've I've seen Alaska in the chat. Well, if there are Alaska people here, I will be in Fairbanks and Anchorage >> um in like May 21 or May 22 or something. I know I'm going to be other places before then. I'm doing some things here in New York, but that's the one I'm remembering because I have to >> Have you been there before?

[00:05:25]>> No, I have not. Um Bookham Dano, who is always right on target, says I'll be able to Russia.

[00:05:31]>> See Russia from your house.

[00:05:33]>> I will. I'll wave to Russia. But I'm I'm actually really um intrigued. I really am looking forward um to to seeing Alaska. Not I almost said Russia to seeing um Alaska. Uh oh, wait a minute.

[00:05:48]Someone just said >> one state I haven't been to yet. It's on the list.

[00:05:52]>> Bobin people's handles. Bobin IDZ7671 did >> I think Bobby Nimmons.

[00:06:01]>> Bob, thank you. did her first anti-detention center protest yesterday.

[00:06:08]>> Excellent. Excellent. I'm moving things around here so that I can actually see what's going on. Here we go. Okay. Oh, there Ellen has been to Alaska. Um I think I'm I'm going to um see a glacier and uh some wildlife.

[00:06:28]Uh so anyway, hello. I am.

[00:06:31]>> This is not a work trip. It's not a work trip. It's just a fun trip.

[00:06:34]>> No, it's a work trip. I'm giving a lecture in Fairbanks and a lecture in Anchorage.

[00:06:39]>> Oh, okay. But you're gonna have time to do other things.

[00:06:42]>> Well, the people, my hosts are being amazing. You want to do this? You do this? So, I'm I'm very excited. Um, and I will watch out for polar bears, but I hope I get to see penguins. Are there penguins in Alaska?

[00:06:53]>> I don't think so.

[00:06:55]>> I have no idea.

[00:06:57]I think Antarctica and places lower south.

[00:07:02]I could be wrong, but you'll you might see polar bears, although they're there's not as many.

[00:07:08]>> Oh, yeah. You'll see b you'll probably see bald eagles.

[00:07:10]>> That's exciting. Okay. I guess it's five after we should probably begin.

[00:07:14]>> Okay. Okay. Okay. Hello to everyone and welcome to History Matters and so does coffee. Uh here we are on our special Sunday morning edition. Uh because I was traveling on Friday. Um I am so happy that you guys came here even though it's not our normal time. That is a fine and wonderful thing. Um but before we delve in to what we'll be talking about today, I turn to my wonderful partner in crime, Annie, who will explain the rules of the game.

[00:07:50]>> Well, good morning everybody. I'm Annie Evans from New American History and we are so delighted that you came today, especially because this is not our normal day. Uh if you're new, please introduce yourself in the chat. We love it when uh new folks join the community.

[00:08:05]If you've been with us for a long time, we always love that you're still here with us. The way this is going to work, uh if you are new, Joan's going to talk for about 30 minutes about today's topic. Feel free to engage in the chat, but please hold your questions to the very end. I'll come back when she's done and I'll give you the signal and that's when you'll use the letter Q three times QQQ to ask your questions in the chat.

[00:08:31]So, please hold all questions until I let you know that we're ready and I will see you guys in a few.

[00:08:38]Okie dokie.

[00:08:41]That there we go. Okay. I feel so hightech moving things around while we're in action. Okay. Well, um, what I wanted to talk about today, uh, since we happen to be doing this today, is something that happened on April 19th, today's date in 1775, and that is the battles of Lexington and conquered.

[00:09:05]Today is the anniversary of those dates.

[00:09:08]Not 250, maybe 251, but still.

[00:09:12]Um, I wanted to talk about them uh in part because of what they have to say to us now. Right? We are, you know, as historians of the of the early American period, we are now and have been for several years in the the the realm of everything is having a big anniversary coming soon. Uh, and so it sort of feels like, you know, in some way we're like, okay, what happened on April 20th? But April 19th, that's a big famous one. I'm going to talk a little bit about why at the time that was the case. Um, but I want to offer you first um a few facts about what was happening at Lexington and Conquered and then um an eyewitness comment or two about what was happening at at Lexington and Conquered. Um, which are interesting and which I do think have something to tell us. Now overall the point for the British army, the reason why they were there was supposedly they were on their way to conquered where there were ammunition of various sorts. And so the British um were actually again Americans are still British at this point, but the army, the regulars uh were on their way to conquer uh to grab to seize these arms and ammunition. That was the whole purpose of the whole thing. Um, but what's interesting is, so I went and and I'll hold this book up because it's a it's an aged book, but it has all kinds of great eyewitness accounts in it. It's called The Spirit of 76, edited by Henry Steel Comer and Richard B. Morris. It's a big book. Um, but it particularly actually particularly for teachers since I know there are a lot of teachers here. It's just a whole book of first-person accounts of things throughout the American Revolution. So, it's it's a handy dandy thing. I've now given away one of my secrets. It's a handy dandy thing when you're writing lectures or giving, you know, public lectures or talking in a classroom. Very handy. But this morning, I went to look at it and came across an account. Get the date.

[00:11:14]Um, when are you offering this account?

[00:11:21]Um, oh, on the Okay. like right at the time um the night of April 19th uh this British officer was commenting on what happened and it's really fascinating. So he complains and I'll read the sentence uh that got me to think I should quote this. Um he says he describes how they were ready to go um and ready to march and they held up because they needed to get provisions but as he says here in this lengthy account they didn't really need the provisions but they waited for several hours to get provisions before they began their march. And um he then goes on actually I'll I'll read the sentence in a bit. He then goes on to um explain how because of that because they waited uh however long it was that they waited a few hours all of the countryside had time to rouse up and respond before anything happened.

[00:12:29]Now, here are a few interesting facts about um in this case, I'm going to be talking first about Lexington that are probably not necessarily common knowledge, which his account helps provide these details.

[00:12:43]He says that basically um it was the night before that they were ready to go and they were waiting for these potential provisions and then at around 4:00 a.m. 5:00 a.m. in the morning they began to march and they marched through a marsh. He complains that like we were all wet, you know, all of these things that you don't think about. He said, "But by the time we got to Lexington, which was 5:00 a.m. on April 19th, there were hundreds of people on the town green." Now, this is a thing we don't normally think about, right? We think about the Battle of Lexington and militia men who ran to be there at the moment. But the detail that he offers, which I think is an important one, is that, as he puts it, the countryside was roused. Right? people knew that something was going down and that the these British regulars were on their way. They were in Lexington. It wasn't clear, I think, to everyone that um they were headed to conquered. Even this guy said, "Oh, we're headed to conquered."

[00:13:46]He found out when they were already marching. Regardless, on the town green at Lexington, he says between two and 300 people were there. They knew that something was happening and they were there together on mass to see what was happening. That's fascinating. I'm going to come back to that. He then goes on to explain how there were 60 to 70 um militia men, you know, meaning private citizens who had been training as a militia in case something bad happened.

[00:14:19]And interestingly earlier, I guess the night before, they had heard word that something might be happening and they were all ready and then nothing happened and they sort of relaxed. And then at 5:00 a.m., actually at 4:00 a.m. uh they learned that no, actually the British regulars are coming. So they all ran to be there for when the British regulars arrived between 60 and 70 um militia men. Uh and as this uh British soldier comments and as the other accounts in this book make clear, it's not entirely clear who fired what first. Right? So we it some of us may have learned in school it's the shot heard round the world, but we don't necessarily know who fired the shot heard around the world. Um and in a sense that doesn't matter because what it represented was British soldiers firing on British subjects. um British soldiers killing British subjects who, you know, in their mind were standing on a field protecting their their land and families and property from these marching British regulars. Um, and the the point the sentence I was going to read before from the British uh officer, he says, "Here's the thing.

[00:15:40]If we hadn't waited for several hours for provisions that we didn't even need, these people would not have had time, two or 30 hundred to collect on Lexington Green. The militia men probably wouldn't have been waiting for us. We could have marched to conquered, which I discovered later is where we were headed, and taken the arms and ammunition and left and nothing would have happened. So he says, this is the quote I was going for. Um he says um thus ended this expedition which from the beginning to end was as illplanned and illexecuted as it was possible to be. So he says they just messed this whole thing up, right? It wasn't as though we shall kill colonists. That wasn't what they were trying to do. Had we not idled away three hours on Cambridge Marsh waiting for provisions that were not wanted, we should have had no interruption at Lexington, but by our stay the country people had got intelligence and time to assemble. We should have reached conquered soon after daybreak before they could have heard of us, by which we should have destroyed more cannon and stores which they had had time enough to convey away before our arrival. We might also have got easier back and not been so much harassed as they would not have had time to assemble so many people even the people of Salem and Marblehead about above 20 miles off had intelligence and time enough to march and meet us on our return. So he goes on, you know, he says these people, these people, the officers who organized this, the general who made this happen, the whole thing was a disaster. And it was a disaster because by being so slow and waiting, the people, the country people, people who live there had time to come together and organize and respond. Now, that's not generally speaking the popular image of what happened at Lexington and conquered, right? We we hear that like the British regulars are marching and the militia men run with their guns to Lexington Common and you know it was a big battle. What you don't get is the fact that at least according to this one British soldier, he would have been fine just going to conquer and getting what they were supposed to get and getting out of there. And he says, "We didn't we were told not to shoot at anybody, right? We were told not actually to try and hurt people. We were just there for the arms and the ammunition." And and they were surprised to see all of these people out and about and and roused and alarmed at what was happening. So number one, the whole thing was not like this vicious attack. It became that as it began to unfold. Number one. Number two, it wasn't just a matter of 60 militia men and and a bunch of British regulars.

[00:18:37]There were several hundred people ready watching there knowing that something was happening and wanting to understand what was happening. This was a community event. It wasn't just a battle. It was it was a community event in which the community understood that something was going down. Something was happening. They didn't know what it was, but they were going to be there for it.

[00:19:05]Number one, and actually I'm I'm on like number three now, so ignore my numbers.

[00:19:09]Um, and the British were taken aback.

[00:19:13]They didn't expect a popular response like that. They didn't expect all of those people in that big a number. So, you know, this this speaks to us, I think, uh, in a lot of ways right now, but part of it is um, to be obvious about it, the community aspect of this, which is erased from the, you know, the midnight ride of Paul Rivere and the way in which we learn Lexington and conquered. We don't learn that it was a community event. We don't learn that people came together to see what happened. We don't learn that that took the British back. They didn't expect all these people to be up and about and watching and and they didn't expect a community event. So, the community aspect of this surprised them and what unfolded became ugly in part because there was more of a response than they thought that there would be, right? And then it became ugly and then there was violence. Uh, and as he says at the end, like that wasn't what was supposed to happen. Now, we can't say that about ICE. Um, we can't say that ICE has no interest in being violent.

[00:20:29]We cannot say that. Um, but what we can say, certainly thinking back to Minneapolis, is that the regime folk did not expect the kinds of responses that they got.

[00:20:42]They did not expect it to become a community event. They did not expect people to come together and stand up for people around them. That surprised them and they had to sort of scramble to figure out what to do and that became ugly and then there ended up being bloodshed and there ended up being people killed.

[00:21:09]So they were going to be violent. They weren't necessarily going to kill people, but that happened in part because they were taken back. They did not expect the community to stand up and respond and come together. That's an aspect particularly of Lexington that we don't get. And in this particular moment, I think it's really really important on on April 19th on this anniversary date, it's really important to realize the ways in which the people were alert, the colonists.

[00:21:47]They heard that something might be happening. They showed up as a group to be there to see what was happening. They understood that. And and those of you who come for my nighttime conversations will not be surprised when I say this.

[00:22:02]They understood that this was a wee event. This wasn't just, oh gosh, there are some British soldiers, huh? It's like they're coming here to us, to our space, to our land. What are they going to do? I don't know. But they're coming to our community. That's the second part of the story. And I know at some point I've mentioned this before, but I'm going to add that in now as well, which is after Lexington and conquered when news began to spread largely south from Massachusetts, the a larger community of sorts was awoken to what happened and was stunned to hear that British regulars had fired on British subjects. What? Like, how is that possible? How could that have happened? That woke a lot of people up in a way that they hadn't been woken up before. There's a letter in here from John Adams who it essentially says, "What? What?" Like they they fired.

[00:23:09]What? How is this possible? And again, historical moments are not necessarily directly equivalent to other historical moments. But if you think about people coming together as a community, people being stunned that their own army in essence is firing on them. And then when that news of that spreads beyond Lexington or Minneapolis, it brings people together and and wakes them up in ways that they hadn't been woken up before. I know I've mentioned um Powderhouse Day in New Haven before. I will mention it again in case there are those here who have not heard the story because it's a perfect example of what I'm talking about and so few people know that it happens. So, the story of Powderhouse Day. And I should say that I learned about Powderhouse Day in New Haven from a taxi driver. Um, and I I I was chatting with a taxi driver. I said, "I'm on my way to teach my American Revolution course." And he said, "Oh, you teach the American Revolution? You must know about Powderhouse Day." I was like, "No, I do not know about Powder House Day." So apparently when word of what had happened, particularly at Lexington, reached New Haven, people were stunned and they were outraged.

[00:24:28]And people had been drilling. They had been coming together in case something bad happened. They needed to be in some way trained to work together in some kind of military way. And um Benedict Arnold, New Haven boy, wasn't born there, but lived there. Benedict Arnold was at the head of some of these men in New Haven. And when he heard that colonist, British colonists, had been shot at and killed in Lexington, he ran to town hall and demanded the keys to the powderhouse so that he could arm these men. and they could march to Lexington to be there again as a community event. They felt the need.

[00:25:16]They're in Connecticut. They felt the need to march to Massachusetts to be there for the other colonists who were in the midst of something and they didn't quite know what it was. It's a great example of the impact of the idea of what was happening in Massachusetts and how people who were not from Massachusetts understood the implications of it, understood what that meant and wanted to be there for other colonists. Um, and Benedict Donald got the keys to the powder house and the men were armed and and I should say New Haven um, every year. Actually, I don't know when it's happening this year. Um, someone actually Tim or someone can look this up to see um when is it the Kings Foot Soldiers foot something? Anyway, someone can look up and see when it's being reenacted this year. Um, New Haven reenacts this every year and they have descendants from the original uh soldiers who were there at the time that still part of that troop of men. Uh, and they act it out. Uh, and there's someone every year who gets to play Benedict Arnold and he bangs on town hall, the door of town hall, and demands the keys to the powder house. And some guy in a suit comes out. I mean, like a normal modern suit and says, "I'm sorry, you can't have the keys to the powder house." And then they drill on the New Haven town green. Um, and they shoot off a cannon. Right? All of this happens. I had lived in New Haven for so long, not super far from the town green, and never knew any of this, including the firing of the cannon, which still to this day stones me. What was funny was I took a bunch of my students, my American Revolution students. We went as a as a group and we're watching this unfold and, you know, there's the Benedict Arnold guy in front of the men. We were going to Lexington. you know, the whole thing is being acted out and then we hear someone say fire uh into a walkie-talkie fire. And I'm thinking, probably my students too, huh? Like fire and then you hear boom, right? A cannon goes off. Um it was very dramatic. It's worth noting that I don't think Benedict Arnold is being celebrated anywhere else in the United States except New Haven, Connecticut. I like that fact about it, too. But the reason I tell that story or have just told that story is because it shows the impact far beyond Lexington, Massachusetts when people understood the nature of what had happened and came together in different ways in different places because it wasn't just a matter of a handful of people. It wasn't just some colonists versus some soldiers. It was a community event. community meant locally and community meant beyond the local community.

[00:28:13]This is the kind of moment that we are in right now. what's going on right now in a variety of ways. And whether we're talking about detention centers or whether we're talking about people being seized in one place or another, whatever it is that we're talking about right now, or people potentially being sent to Iran, anything that's going on with this regime, it's not just them, it's us. What's going on is in a large sense a community event. It's about all of us and in one way or another it affects all of us. And it's easy to forget that. It's easy to forget that sitting in our homes uh like me looking at a computer screen. Uh it's easy to forget that going about our day-to-day lives and not thinking about this. And we don't need to be thinking about this every second of our day-to-day lives, but it's easy to not think about it at all because it's unpleasant and traumatic and upsetting to think about.

[00:29:20]And sometimes I really do need to think about it. It's very possible to think about some of what's going on as happening to other people. But the fact of the matter is in a a broad sense, it's happening to all of us. It's our country. What's going on is in one way or another an attack on the democratic essence of our country which is about we the people. So we need to we need to bear in mind and really mull over the fact that all of these things that are happening in one way or another they're community events. It's you could say a similar thing about the Declaration of Independence and I'm sure I will say this in July um which feels as though you know understandably so it's a great document right it's a founding document floating in the heavens right that that that's that's what it is in one way or another but it's less commonly known that it was assumed that that would be per performed meaning read aloud the Declaration of Independence was intended to be read aloud for people to hear. In a sense, it was an event in addition to being a document. So there are so many aspects of our founding era and particularly of the revolution that in one way or another were community events. And when I say community, I am saying more than white people, more than wealthy white people. If you were part of a community in one way or another, no matter how many rights you had been stripped of, particularly given the rights that you were stripped of, it was happening to you as well. So that's important to bear in mind in a sense.

[00:31:14]That's my um Lexington message on April 19, 2026.

[00:31:20]uh is to remember that what we're witnessing, what we're experiencing, what we're going through like so many events in the revolution were not isolated things happening to 50 people at a time. They were community events locally and then they became community events because of the broader implications.

[00:31:39]Okay, I am now going to stop talking because it is time for me to stop talking. Um, however, um, okay, so I I jumped out of my seat first, um, because I had forgotten uh my my mug cover. Uh, and I'll show you why I jumped out of my seat the second time. Um, for those of you who are here and have not been here before, um, for Oh, I didn't even I don't even remember. Someone's gonna have to like give me the update on what 300 and what which episode is this peeps.

[00:32:20]Um three I know. Thank you Dave. Mug three mug mug mug. Okay Dave is reminding me. Someone someone tell me what the episode is because I Oh 310.

[00:32:31]Okay. 310. Our 310th episode. I do not have 310 mugs. However, I have a lot of mugs. Um, and uh, I always have a mug that in one way or another reflects on what we're talking about. Today's mug is a new mug >> that was given to me at Mount Vernon um, by by Bev and Peter. I and I thought I remembered their names, but I didn't want to get them wrong, so I needed to get the piece of paper. And here it is very appropriate for today. It says got history, >> right?

[00:33:06]>> And indeed, >> we got a lot of history. And what I was talking about today was just that that our our history is speaking to us. It always speaks to us, but right now it's speaking to us um very very loudly. Uh so yes, uh it also got history makes me think of that commercial um >> Got Milk.

[00:33:26]>> Got milk. Yeah.

[00:33:29]Oh, >> right.

[00:33:32]>> It is fine mug. And thank you Bev and Peter um for providing me with this wonderful mug.

[00:33:39]>> That's awesome.

[00:33:39]>> And Ellen has written own boo. Uh there was a commercial uh a million years ago uh for milk uh in which there was someone sitting in a room surrounded by Burr Hamilton duel paraphernalia, you know, something like a case that said the bullet um and all kinds of other things. And um he was called by a radio station and said, you know, we have the question for you and you can win a bazillion dollars. Bev is here. Hey, excellent. Um you can you can win a billion dollars if you answer this question. Who fought the duel with Alexander Hamilton? And this guy has peanut butter in his mouth and he can't he doesn't have milk and he can't say it. So he's trying to say Aaron Burn. He can't.

[00:34:25]the number of people over the years who have sent me that video who are referenced >> countless. But um at any rate um I am glad you are here, Bev, and that I got to thank you and that you are here. Um okay.

[00:34:40]>> All right, stop talking.

[00:34:41]>> Are we ready?

[00:34:43]>> All right, Richard, you jumped the gun again. And remember, you're supposed to wait, but you may now put QQQ in the chat. The question is, was there an established network of messengers back in those days?

[00:34:57]>> Well, there came to be. So one of the things that happens in the opening phases of the revolution is networking and and people understood in part because of things like Lexington and conquered that there needed to be communication fast and reliable modes of communication or as fast and reliable as you can be when you're banking on horses. Um but the idea that there needed to be a reliable network kind of like you know the Federalist essays uh being sent from Virginia and New York because of Hamilton and Madison needing to communicate with each other. Yeah.

[00:35:35]There were um they organized theyworked so that people in different places understood what was happening. Part of that networking was newspapers. So part of that networking was the press in which newspapers were informing each other again news on horseback about what was happening in other places. In part so people could stay informed and in part because the natural impact of that was let's say a Liberty poll went up in Massachusetts people in New York might hear that news and put up their own Liberty poll as well. So that kind of networking, news networking, newspapers, messengers, all of that was a really really important part of the revolutionary war effort because just think about I mean this is part of what the British were suffering from as an army. They're marching all over the place up and down the eastern seabboard.

[00:36:29]As that account makes clear, they don't necessarily have provisions.

[00:36:33]The British soldiers like we're waiting around for provisions. they don't necessarily have provisions. They're marching around the countryside having to keep an army going. Um distance and space and geographic space had a huge huge impact. So that's a good question.

[00:36:48]Um because yeah, they had to work at that and in working at that they helped add to the the general understanding that this was not a one colony event. It wasn't a Massachusetts event. It was a colonial event featuring, you know, all of these North American, well, some of these North American colonies, Canada less so, but still the idea being there.

[00:37:14]>> All right. Um, Obie Mom Kenobi asks, "Are there factual American history textbooks for kids and adults? We were taught crap, that's her word, in school.

[00:37:25]We should get a refund on our taxes for that." That's hilarious.

[00:37:29]>> That is very funny. I can't I don't know I don't have the name of a specific textbook that I can offer to you and I don't know Annie do you >> so so here's what my my here's my thing on textbooks um no textbook is perfect some are better than others some are really not good some are purposely written with a political agenda in more recent years in particular but you know history tells us the daughters of the confederacy controlled all the textbooks for me many parts of the country for years. Um they were literally like the ones that funded them, adopted them, wrote or you know controlled the content. Um so when we would go through textbook adoption, the thing that used to frustrate me is we would have all the books out for public comment. We would invite everyone in the community, parents, you didn't even have to have a kid in the school to come review them.

[00:38:21]And we invited groups that were experts, people like Joanne, you know, historians, professors, experts. Um, but very few parents ever came and looked at the books. And that really made me sad.

[00:38:35]And I actively when I got there, I someone told me this once that ten times more people came to review social studies books than any other content area because I went out in the community and beg parents like, "Please come look at these books." But, um, it has to be a community effort like everything else.

[00:38:53]If you want your kids to have good books in school, show up, ask to review the materials before your tax money is spent on them. There's a process. It's supposed to be transparent. Um, but one of the reasons I like working in the digital realm is when something changes, you can update it in real time. Like I literally go into lessons all the time as new scholarship comes to light and I update our lessons like the next day the teachers have the most up-to-date version and there are primary sources that you can get your hands on.

[00:39:27]>> Um which >> hold that one up again because I wanted to take a picture to put on our Slack group >> with teachers that couldn't be here today. Um >> and let me do it so you can see the editor editor.

[00:39:38]>> Hang on one second. All right, got it.

[00:39:42]Um, the other thing I just saw, I'm at the Organization of American Historians conference. American YAP is an online textbook that many, many scholars have contributed to over the years and because it's digital, they continue to update it. Um, and for the first time, I think it's the first time, you can correct me, Joanne, they've done a print edition.

[00:40:03]>> And yeah, I think this is like the first time they've ever actually printed it out as an actual textbook, but I'm guessing it's in response to how many states have been adopting like rewriting history, so to speak, to tell a certain narrative and then pushing these books on on schools, trying to politicize the textbook industry even more so. So, I'm guessing YAP finally said, "Well, we're going to put this out for the people that don't have access to laptops or don't want to use digital." You know, there's somewhat of a push back on everything digital now. Um, so yeah, American Yap, it's more for like high school, early college. I would say the reading level.

[00:40:44]>> Yeah, I can't one way or another. I I can't speak about the content because I'm not super familiar with the content, but it is online. And your point, the things that are online um I suppose for better and worse, but ideally for better can be tweaked and adjusted based on um what's out there. So that's important. I also want to answer because I saw it whisking by here.

[00:41:07]>> Whisking isn't the right word.

[00:41:09]>> Whatever the right >> whizzing. Thank you. Whizzing by. Thank you. Whisking. Um at any rate, uh someone was asking um about book recommendations. Um, and one or two that I can mention, not textbooks. Um, as far as what happened at Lexington and Conquered, um, there's a book, The Minutemen and Their World by Robert Gross, G R O SS, which really goes into the detail about what was happening on the ground. Um there's another book by Ray Raphael called um a people's history of the American Revolution um that talks about you know Minutemen and Native Americans and and all kinds of different groups black Americans and how they were experiencing things that were going on too. So those are two books that are getting um middle out or bottom up as opposed to top down. Minute Men in Their World is a is a classic um because Robert Gross was he's a social historian and he really went into detail to get at the real experience of the real people on the ground as to what was going on there. Okay, we can now go on to more questions.

[00:42:18]>> Okay. Um, so Dave, our good buddy Dave says, "Are historians thinking about a counter celebration for 250 given what's going on with the current leadership?" Um, something with real history. So, are y'all secretly planning a counter celebration?

[00:42:37]I I wouldn't say we're secretly planning a counter celebration. I would say that historians are very aware that this regime will have their version of what they throughout this year of what they will say is important to remember and some of that will involve history and much of it won't I think a a place to watch for um things that are more complex uh and closer to the ground meaning actually more grounded in historical events is going be in part on a local level think look for and see what's happening locally. The fact of the matter, and I've told this story before, I know years ago when people historians were looking ahead um someone is asking to put those titles in the chat, so I will let you guys do that. But um years ago when when historians were early American historians were looking ahead to this year um and I took part in a variety of group discussions and there was a really um sort of complicated response on the part of historians because on the one hand it's a big deal for a lot of us and there are so many books coming out this year so many good books coming out this year about the revolution for good reason. But on the other hand, we don't want it just to be rah rah, let's wave around a bunch of flags. We want to actually talk about intelligent things, meaningful things, the the import of things in a way that these kinds of years, you know, enials, centennial, bicesentennial, semiquincential, these enalial years are marking points.

[00:44:18]they're they're sort of data points that encourage you to take a step back and think about where you are and where you've been and where you want to go.

[00:44:26]So, I wouldn't say that there's um a counter um organization sort of trying to counter whatever is out there, but there are a bazillion historians who are really interested in talking about history, meaning a big diverse story with many levels and many opinions and and what happened and what the implications of it were. And I don't mean that to sound blah blah blah blah blah like historians are going to complicate it and make it uninteresting.

[00:45:00]You guys, those of you particularly here um who are teachers know actually many of you who aren't teachers know the degree to which historical truth is always so much more interesting than the stories that people make up. Almost always that that was one of my immediate comebacks to the Hamilton musical when people were like it's wrong. It's wrong.

[00:45:19]I was like yeah okay. So my opening line is, "Guess what? The truth is even more interesting than the Hamilton musical.

[00:45:27]So come on in." Right? I have all kinds of things that I can show you and and tell you. So not one um counterrevolution event. I wouldn't say celebration because I think historians are interested in thinking in a more complicated way. It it's there obviously are things now ideas that maybe haven't been fully realized but that are worth celebrating. There are things that are also worth really interrogating that we haven't lived up to. And now is a great moment to say you know what this idea great idea let's do better going forward. That's a fine thing to do in an anniversary year as well. Okay. I will stop talking again. Um >> and also people in the chat I just want to comment. They're saying that even when the teachers show up to review and pick the best book, a lot of times these publishers make deals and and they end up going with whatever's the best deal instead of the best book. So that is very true. Um and again, that's why parents need to attend these meetings and say, "Nope, that book is terrible. I don't care what kind of deal they gave you. I want my kid to have the book with the real facts." So you got to be vigilant. All right. Um looking for more questions here. People are very busy in this chat. just asked um if uh I am left-handed. No, like >> I am. I am.

[00:46:49]>> No, they're asking because I keep pointing to my rocking chair.

[00:46:53]>> And I am right-handed.

[00:46:55]>> Dramatic effect, people.

[00:46:57]>> I don't know why the rocking chair has become the symbol of all bad. I'm so sorry, rocking chair. My mother bought me that rocking chair. I don't know. But anyway, no, I think there's nothing particularly there. And Rosie is there.

[00:47:10]So if you point to Rosie, you'll rile her up.

[00:47:13]>> She just started making riled up noises.

[00:47:16]So anyway, okay.

[00:47:17]>> People ask if you could make a publicly available recommended reading list. I thought you guys had that on your class that you taught with David and Bev.

[00:47:24]Didn't you guys have a book list?

[00:47:26]>> Well, so what we actually what we did have the the America at 250 a history.

[00:47:32]um all of the well with one exception I think all of the books that we used in that course were primary sources from the time period that we were teaching about. So I don't know if there's a recommended book list. Um >> has one it's called the declaration book club and they have it's pretty good. I I mean we did not for that class, you know, you could if you wanted books about the revolution. You could certainly go to my American Revolution course at Yale, which is online and free, and look at the syllabus and see the books that I assigned. I assigned the Minute Men in Their World by Robert Gross, among other things. He was so happy I did that because so many people have watched that lecture course and they go out and buy the book and it's it's an old book and he was like, "It's back.

[00:48:17]People are buying the book again." Um anyway, >> um okay. Be nice to Lisa asks, "What were the women doing during this event >> during Lexington and conquered?"

[00:48:32]Well, some of them were there, right? I mean, if you're talking about 300 people on Lexington Common, it's not necessarily just guys. Um it wasn't women who were shooting at the troops as they were retreating. See, she's got all riled up now. Um, it women weren't necessarily shooting at British uh soldiers as they were fleeing. Um, but women throughout the war were doing a lot of things. I mean, they were actually, how many of you have seen the movie 1776? I bet a bunch of you have.

[00:49:05]Salt peter. Like, women were were, you know, making supplies, making salt peter, um, helping create uniforms and other sorts of things. Some of them were with the army helping as the army went along. Women were doing all kinds of things during the revolution and taking over their husband's farms, taking over uh their husband's printing businesses if their husbands were fighting. So women were all over the place in what was going on during the revolution for sure. And as a matter of fact, there's a great book um Rosemary Zagari Z A G- A R I, wrote a book called Revolutionary Backlash. And um it's about the simple fact that the revolution opened the idea that women were going to play a role in the public realm that women had some power and there was then an immediate backlash in the 1790s and afterwards because men weren't really excited about that idea. It's a really good book and I will say it teaches really well. Um but that details some of this story as well.

[00:50:15]Uh all right through uh okay Bookham Dano wanted to know in Alistair Cook's America he made the point that Minutemen guns were different more precise than the British guns which were less accurate shooting at a distance. Did that change the tactics that they used?

[00:50:34]>> Okay, I don't and I can't say that for certain. It it is true that and this is true you know it certainly was true um the idea that different guns have different kinds of accuracy is not a new idea. The fact that in different places where they use guns differently had different guns. You know when I was working on my most recent book about violence in Congress um people who were in the north in New England um they used rifles uh to shoot. People in the south of more often used pistols to shoot. So when they were trying to negotiate duels between northerners and southerners this was a problem and southerners were like rifles rifle you can't duel with a rifle and the northerners were like well I use my rifle to shoot squirrels or whatever you know actually there was someone who said I use my rifle to shoot squirrels which does not make me happy but at any rate I can't speak with knowledge about the relative accuracy of American guns versus the guns the regulation guns that were given out to the British army but certainly the idea that number one, there wasn't one kind of American gun, right? So, it wasn't as though um some somehow or other there was like some mass national effort to arm militia men.

[00:51:48]People were coming with their own guns.

[00:51:50]So, there was a variety um of kinds of guns. So, I I can't I can't answer that with with any great authority, but it is worth thinking about that being one among many things that certainly would have affected how these battles played out.

[00:52:07]Yeah. Um, right.

[00:52:12]>> Different shooters have different degrees of accuracy. You know, I I shot a dueling pistol. I shot a black powder dueling pistol.

[00:52:19]>> Wow. But it didn't make your hand jump like you see in the movies.

[00:52:23]>> No, it Well, so but I mentioned it because of the accuracy question, right?

[00:52:27]So, I had a friend who um arranged that I um went to a police firing range with a police officer um who and they one of them had a a black powder dueling pistol. Um and we you know and and the policeman who took us there, he was a sharpshooter. He was an expert at shooting. Right. That was the first time I'd ever shot a gun. and he shot the dueling pistol and had no idea where the ball from the pistol went. It was it is it was not the world's most accurate weapon coming from him. For me, nothing is going to be the world's most accurate weapon. But um accuracy was not necessarily high on the list um of all of these guns. But the the dueling pistol, the most noteworthy thing about the dueling pistol was that it was heavy. So that it was actually hard to hold it up because it was it the front kept making me but it did not kick back.

[00:53:25]It actually was very dramatic. It was like click puff boom, you know. It was it was there was something satisfying about the old gun firing. Then the policeman gave me his modern-day um pistol fire that made my arm jerk back and that was far less fun for me to fire than um a dueling pistol.

[00:53:46]>> Yeah.

[00:53:48]Um, so Cam Guy Mac was wondering if you are familiar with the um Michael Harriet Unwashed History of America um and his website Black AF History if you had any comments on his version. Yeah.

[00:54:04]>> No, I I don't uh I can't so I can't comment comment on it one way or another.

[00:54:10]>> Um >> dropping things into comments here for people to look at is great.

[00:54:15]>> Right. Exactly. Um, all right.

[00:54:19]And a lot of people are saying that they've got some of these titles on their shelves and they're embarrassed that they've been sitting there for years and never read them. So maybe this will prompt them to pick some of those books up now and read them.

[00:54:29]>> I do want to I do want to comment and you commented on it and I saw whisking or whizzing by. Someone said, "If you really want to learn about the history, watch Ken Burns films." And I see you've responded. Um, >> yeah. So, so you know, it certainly is worth watching Ken Burns films, but they're films made by a filmmaker. And even though there are historians commenting, um, they are they are put together, edited, and crafted by a filmmaker. And that's not necessarily the same thing even though they're a scholar speaking as something that a scholar might come up with. And I can say from experience, having been interviewed for lots and lots and lots and lots of documentaries, you typically talk for two hours and then they pull, you know, what they think are the most noteworthy things that you've said, which aren't necessarily the things that you might think are the most valuable.

[00:55:22]So, I'm not, you know, naysaying documentaries, and I'm certainly not naysaying Ken Burns. Um, but I wouldn't say that that's the last word. um in anything I would and I would say as with many things right people if you look you'll see people reviewing his documentaries and commenting on what they like and what they didn't like and um which is valid you know I mean that's what historians do to each other's books as well um but that's an important point to make >> yeah um yeah I'm not trying to get in a beef with Ken Burns I'm just saying some some of his films are better than others that's where I'm going to stop for the day um >> what is the title of the third book I mentioned, Rosie Zagari, Revolutionary Backlash. I think that's what you're talking about. Z A G- A R R I. Um >> Um Okay. Jayzar wanted to know if the commander at Lexington and Conquered, Francis Smith, bought his commission.

[00:56:23]>> I cannot I do not know, but I would bet if anyone knows it's Robert Gross and the Minutemen in their world. Okay. So, go check that book out your library.

[00:56:34]>> That's it.

[00:56:35]>> Um >> Um I don't I don't think I have that here lurking. I have three places where I have books. Um three. Yeah, I have three libraries in essence. Uh so, and the one I want I was so thrilled last night when I was like it's here. I don't remember why I brought it here, but yeah. Oh, there you go. Um, Natalie put up a link to Revolutionary Backlash.

[00:57:01]It's really good and really readable.

[00:57:03]It's a good It's a good book.

[00:57:06]>> Um, >> and then someone else was asking about Wikipedia versus textbooks. Wikipedia has gotten a lot better than when it first started, but I would not say it's the most accurate because it's >> not the most accurate, folks. I at some point I uh the best way to check its accuracy I looked up myself Well, you know, Cece and I can go in and edit your page. We've done that.

[00:57:31]>> It wasn't even my page. It was other people saying, you know, as historian Joanne Freeman argues, and I was like, she did not like she it's not what I said, you know. So, no, I you're right.

[00:57:42]It's better than when it started. Um, but as far as using Wikipedia, it's a starting place and it's not.

[00:57:49]>> My friend Shannon's here. She was on the panel with us and she brought up a good point in our panel yesterday. it it provides sources that you can turn kids to as a starting point and it shows them a good example of like how you really need to go to the original sources. So for that it's it's very useful. Um all right. Uh someone else is saying there are lots of stories you know that they mentioned a teenage girl whose story parallels Paul Rivere in Virginia. We have a guy named Jack Jwitt. He's called Virginia's Paul Rivere. So, you know, they're asking about these other Paul Rivere type people who supposedly warned that the British were coming. Um, if you had any thoughts on those stories or any that were more true than other people.

[00:58:33]>> We know about Paul Rivere because of a poem.

[00:58:36]>> Right.

[00:58:36]>> Right. Longfellow, the midnight ride of Paul Rivere is part of why he stands out from everyone else. I mean, what he did is important. Even at the time, he was asked to testify as to what happened and what he did. I think the Massachusetts Historical Society owns his account of what happened. So, it's not that he doesn't count, but but there are all kinds of things going on and that one stands out because someone commemorated it and and thus we've remembered it forever after. It's always worth thinking about um anything in history.

[00:59:06]Sometimes we remember thing remember sometimes we know about things or remember things because some famous person pulled it out or commented on it or wrote a book about it or something and it doesn't necessarily mean that the person being remembered is more important or profoundly different from everybody else. It just means there's a we know that person and don't know so many others. Which gives historians a lot to do, right? To to to find the broader context to find all of the people all of the people, not just the one big famous person who and particularly if you're talking about a popular mass revolution to get all of the kinds of people who were engaged in it. You know, I I make a point.

[00:59:51]I don't know if I made it before here on history matters, but I'm going to make it again anyway because um it's worth making again, particularly given where this conversation has gone. Um when I did an event, a recent event at Yale, um and I was asked with actually with the people David Blight and Beverly Gage who I did that America at 250 course with and someone asked me um how teaching of the revolution was different now from how it had been during the bsentennial.

[01:00:22]And you know during the bsentennial one of the things that happened was that the voices of all kinds of people who had not been included in the telling of the story of the revolution suddenly they were being included and you had African-American voices and Native American voices and women. And so the the story of the revolution was being enriched partly by social historians in ways that it hadn't been before. And what struck me when I was up in front of the room uh was and now those voices by some are being stripped away.

[01:00:55]So you know those voices were added during the bsentennial. There are some now who would prefer that those voices not be heard, who would prefer that those people not be taught about, who would prefer that that history be eliminated.

[01:01:10]And you know it is up to all of us to make sure that that does not happen. You can try to erase history.

[01:01:21]But if people know that that's what's going on, that's going to be a tough thing to do. And in the case of the revolution, what everyone is focused on right now and even just that question being asked, you know, what did women do? People know to ask those questions.

[01:01:38]people know that there were all kinds of people engaged particularly in a revolution. So that's that's a a different kind of a thing to be alert to but it's an an important thing. Someone just >> Karen Wolf had someone named George Budro on a panel here. I don't know if you're familiar with him, Joanne, but he's from Philly. And uh he brought up the president's house, you know, the exhibit that was taken down and then right >> the court said to put it back and then they got halfway done and then another judge said stop putting it back.

[01:02:06]But um we walked down there the other night >> since we're here in Philly and it was so heartening to see people have put up their own like they've put pieces back handdrawn signs and things and and I shared in several sessions about I mentioned here a few weeks ago the middle school teacher in New Jersey who her kids redid the whole exhibit were giving their own tours and now they're going on a field trip and um one of the park rangers had told somebody at the conference that more people have been to see the president's house than they usually have because >> of course >> by trying to tear down the history now more people are actually going to different websites and reading what he's trying to prevent them from reading. So it really backfired >> and that's exactly and and that has happened again and again and again as far as trying to erase history. I wanna I wanna um I know we're out of time. I do want to answer this question about um if historians study objectivity and what is objectivity um which is a really interesting question you know and I will say um if you're a historian you know that no one is absolutely 100% objective because you're raised in a certain climate. You're surrounded by certain things. The context that you're in shapes how you think. When historians evaluate other historians books, one of the first things we do is to see when they were written. So if a book about the free press is written in the 1960s, it's going to be shaped by the climate and the protest climate of the 1960s, for example. That said, one of the things, one of the kinds of training that you get as a historian, a professional historian who goes to grad school is how to find, not just find different kinds of sources, how to evaluate the credibility of different kinds of evidence. How much evidence and what kinds of evidence can you use to make certain points? Um, so you know when when I'm on here sort of ranting about um, you know, primary sources among other things, an important part of getting at what happens historically speaking is understanding the evidence and the shortcomings of it and the strengths of it. And you know, my most recent book about violence in Congress and a lot of those fights were essentially not in the historical record. And um I didn't allow myself to decide that a congressional fight was real until I validated it with more than one kind of evidence. So if I found it in a newspaper, that wasn't enough. I needed a reference in the record or a reference in a memoir or a diary because I wanted to the degree that I could to validate that something actually happened. And that was one way to use evidence. So objectivity, no human being is 100% objective, but historic, part of the historian craft is understanding how to seek and use evidence to try and get at what it what it is saying rather than what you want it to say.

[01:05:14]Okay. And now it's three minutes after um and I I did get a late checkout so we could do this, but I have to get out. I can't like we can't be late today. So, >> okay, we do that, but we we don't want to.

[01:05:31]>> Yeah.

[01:05:31]>> No. So, we we will make the Let me explain what is going to happen now. Um and we can end a few minutes early so that you can vanish and not get in trouble from the hotel. Um so, what what we're going to do now is go to the afterparty. In the ancient days of Zoom, we could stop recording and say whatever we wanted in the afterparty, but we cannot do that now. So, I say that because uh anything you say from this point on will be up here on the screen.

[01:05:58]So, bear that in mind as we talk about whatever we talk about because the afterparty is where we can talk about whatever the heck we want to talk about and it doesn't have to be on topic. The history matters community is a community and the afterparty is one place where we get to just be a community and engage with each other however we see fit. Now, before we go to the afterparty, uh, I want to say, um, thank you to my wonderful partner in crime, Annie, for being here. Thank you. I know some of you have to leave. Thank you for all of you guys for being here on a Sunday morning, man. Like, I even more appreciate the fact that you guys showed up for this. Thank you for engaging in the conversation of democracy on a Sunday morning. Um, and everybody stay safe. Um, and if you're not going to stick around for the afterparty, um, I will see you Friday, an actual our actual normal time. But okay, now we can say poof, it's the after.

[01:07:01]>> So Joanne, your name has come up quite a few times. Um, random people have walked up to me and said, "Aren't you that that lady that does that thing with Joanne Freeman on Fridays?"

[01:07:16]I laughed and I said, "Yes, I am that lady."

[01:07:18]>> That is hilarious.

[01:07:20]>> That happened at least three times this weekend, which kind of made me laugh.

[01:07:23]Um, and then other people actually walked up and said, "Are you Annie from History Matters?" And I said, "Yes, I am." Um, and then they were kind and introduced themselves. So, that was really fun.

[01:07:33]>> And some of your buddies like David Blight, you know, they they're all here.

[01:07:36]And Ed was here with us. Um, and they were like, "Where's Joanne?" I was like, "Joanne's been on the road. She's at Mount Vernon today. That's why she's not here. So, just so you know, your historian buddies, we're missing you.

[01:07:49]>> Oh, that is nice. That is very nice. And it's nice to know that History Matters is is getting out there into the world and that a few thoughts for those who can't sleep at night is getting out into the world. That's good.

[01:08:01]>> Oh, absolutely.

[01:08:03]>> It is good.

[01:08:04]>> Um, so >> and um we think we think this is episode 310, but I feel so weird because Carolene is not here.

[01:08:12]>> I know. And I I it's funny. Not that I don't trust whoever said that.

[01:08:16]>> No, I've heard that it was correct.

[01:08:18]>> Oh, no. Oh, and we didn't say something before. Um, CKSWQ13.

[01:08:24]Oh, no, it isn't. It's Yes. CKSWQ13.

[01:08:27]I am a newcomer to the live presentations. We didn't ask people who are new >> to say they are new so that they could get a robust welcome.

[01:08:37]>> Slack group. Nancy runs that for us and she put her email in the chat and so did I. And that's how we do stay in touch.

[01:08:44]Um, I will not be able Someone asked if I could go through all the chat and post all the books at the end. I can't because I gotta hop on a train. So, you guys are going to have to go through the chat and find those.

[01:08:55]>> I can mention I can mention one of them was The Spirit of 76 edited by Henry Steel com Mars. Um, one of them was The Minutemen in Their World by Robert Gross. Um, one of them was A People's History of the American Revolution by Ray Raphael and one of them was Revolutionary Backlash by Rosemary Zagari.

[01:09:16]>> Okay, >> I think those are all the books.

[01:09:17]>> So, you can watch the replay and jot those down >> and thank I I want to welcome um the person with the initials that now the chat has gone past her CKS something something something. Um, and anyway, I want to welcome those of you newish.

[01:09:33]Okay, MZ, newish. Um, this is this is an amazing community for 310ish episodes truly. Um, it's amazing. Uh, and there you go, Lori. Newbie here, but a night voyer with a can. Okay. Well, welcome Lori to this particular community. Um, so honestly, um, welcome all of you who have not been here um, before. Um, you're old.

[01:10:03]>> Usually on Fridays, not Sundays. if you're brand new Sunday because you'll miss it, >> right? We we did it um today because I was on the road Friday morning, but normally this is 10:00 a.m. Friday morning for 309 previous weeks for the >> I think they said 310.

[01:10:22]>> Yes, 310. No, but 309 previous episodes.

[01:10:25]>> Oh, Carol's here now. Oh, she did show up.

[01:10:28]>> Yo.

[01:10:30]Yeah, Carol confirmed 310, so I'm sticking with it.

[01:10:34]>> Okay. Okay. Well, then for sure newish some are saying. Um, Virginia, first time you might have made the live one. Well, I also realized um that Friday morning is hard for people because they actually have to go to their jobs, right? So, I kind of thought the plus side of doing this is that at least some people can come and be here on a Sunday morning who can't be here on a weekday morning. Um, so I do understand that. Um, welcome. Yes, welcome to Oh, there you go. CKSWQ13 is saying, "Thank you. Thank you that you reappeared. I couldn't remember your your handle." Um, Jeanie says, "I'm an oldtime listener and I'm older than Heather and you."

[01:11:13]Yeah, Heather always has this joke about how I'm so much older than her and it's like three months.

[01:11:19]>> Yeah, that's how Carol and I are. I can't remember. Carol, how much older am I than you? It's It's like maybe a year at best, but I'm always like, "Oh, I'm so old." And she's she's like, "No, you're not.

[01:11:31]Um, right. No, none none of us are old.

[01:11:34]We because we are young in spirit. If you are here, part of this community, you're definitely young uh in spirit.

[01:11:40]Um, I know some days are better for some and not for others. Um, but but I'm also around not every night, but a lot of nights. So, um hopefully that works for some people, too. And yes, I guess actually um hang on a sec. Hang on a sec. I'm looking at my calendar here.

[01:11:59]Um, no. Uh, so the Friday is the 24th this coming Friday.

[01:12:09]I do have a birthday coming up. It's not a significant birthday.

[01:12:13]Um, meaning not like 65 or 60. Um, but I do have a birthday coming up. Um, it is more f I can imagine it's more fun to be here live. And I don't know if you heard Rosie, but she was spouting off some of >> a little bit. Yeah. Yeah, >> that's funny.

[01:12:30]>> So, um, and yes, did did people see Obama and Mom Donnie with the kids?

[01:12:36]>> Oh, I didn't see that, but I've been at the conference, so I've been super busy.

[01:12:39]>> Oh, yeah. No, go find it. If you haven't seen it, go.

[01:12:41]>> They're they're reading stories to kids.

[01:12:43]They're singing the wheels. It's so it's it's just nice to see kindness and humanity and decent human beings who happen to be political leaders. Um, >> yep.

[01:12:58]>> Yeah.

[01:12:58]>> Our our new governor has been on a listening tour. She's been going around to I think every corner of the state in person and just really talking, engaging with folks from a wide range like on schools and and what we're teaching in schools and, you know, cost of living and fair housing. And I've just been so impressed with with the way she's tackled, you know, in this first part of her her first year. So, I'm feeling a lot better about Virginia's future at least. Definitely our schools are in better hands, I think. So, that's been really good.

[01:13:30]>> No, it is. There are many things happening >> that are very encouraging, I will say.

[01:13:38]Um, 64 is a significant birthday. Ask the Beatles. Oh. Oh, and I'm 64. You got your own song.

[01:13:47]>> I do. Kenneth morning and put that on your Spotify list. And that's a good a good one.

[01:13:54]>> When I'm 64.

[01:13:58]Yeah. How does that happen?

[01:14:01]>> That's so funny.

[01:14:02]>> Okay. Jen is turning 60 in July. That's a significant one. 50. I threw myself a big party at at Hamilton's house. That was that was cool. Um so yeah.

[01:14:14]>> Um I'm trying to catch up with the conversation here. Look at all you got that. There you go. Will you still need me? Will you still feed me? Well, no one's feeding me. I'm feeding me when I'm 64. Boom. Boom.

[01:14:27]>> Now that's gonna be stuck in my head the whole day on the train.

[01:14:30]>> No, I know for sure in my head over and over again.

[01:14:34]>> Yeah. So, my birthday was in December, but for my birthday, my sister said once the Springsteen Archives opens, which is happening um in like a month, there's no way we'll get tickets to the actual opening. But but she said once it's open to the public, she's going to take me up there for a long weekend so I can go to Asbury Park and the new museum and go through all the exhibits.

[01:14:56]>> And she promised that she would not try and rush me because normally my family's like, "We've been at this museum for eight hours. Can we please go now?" I don't know. I haven't read every single thing. So she said, "It'll be my weekend to, you know, geek out on Springsteen the whole weekend."

[01:15:14]>> Wonderful. That Yay. you know, um, totally random, but you just made me think of it. In the past, one of my one of my past jobs, um, I curated, well, I curated, but I also was a historical consultant on museum exhibits. And here's the thing, the the and it depends on the kind of museum and the kind of exhibit, but generally speaking, you get about 80 words >> on one of the, you know, plaques that go on the wall. Let me tell you that's scrimshaw sometimes when you're trying to talk about the significance of something. It I had a actually my friend Richard Bernstein called it historical scrimshaw. Um that that is what it feels like. It's like I think I got all the points in. I like >> scrimshaw is also a good band name.

[01:15:59]Somebody add that spreadsheet.

[01:16:02]>> It it is >> the good thing now Joanne though is we have QR codes. So, a lot of museums, you know, that real estate on the signage is pretty small, but um >> we had like just the Civil War Museum in Richmond, they have a QR code that links out to a little short film that we had made um for one of Ed's books and I said someone like, "Hey, we have a beautiful one minute movie about that person." And she's like, "Really? Can we add it to the exhibit?" And I'm like, "Sure." So we, you know, that >> that's a totally cool thing. And that's when I went to see the um Anne Frank exhibit >> uh here in New York. I think it's the first exhibit that I've been to that um everything had a QR code and they gave you little headphones when you came in and that was >> that is where I got this >> book. My coach had >> Was it that >> St. Paul did that with all their exhibits in the house. Now, instead of having a house tour, they have an iPad and you go into each room of the house and you hit the iPad and there's like a video introduction and then there's QR codes throughout the room and you can kind of pick a choose your own adventure. It's really interesting.

[01:17:19]>> Nice. Yeah. See that's so so there are you know we spend a lot of time um griping about uh technology because AI is being shoved down our throats but there are so many ways in which um technology and this is a great example of that lets us gives us access to information in a way that isn't overwhelming and isn't um you know crammed down our throats but is an option for people um and and if and even this is going to make me sound do I have it here.

[01:17:50]>> Oh, I do. This is going to make me sound 800 years old, but the idea that we walk around with this in our pocket and the the amount of information I still have not fully got >> all filmmakers now. We are all filmmakers.

[01:18:05]>> I guess that's true. Um >> there was a session about that here at the conference and they were talking about well they were saying we're all eyewitness to you know and how now that everybody has a camera it's harder for the people to cover things up politicians to spin things because you know they said if if people hadn't filmed George Floyd's murder right then we would not have known what really happened that day and it wouldn't have led to so many events. I have to ask. Um, Fran Randolph says, "Peedmont Raging Granny's has a QR code for our lyrics when we sing in public."

[01:18:46]>> Nice.

[01:18:47]>> I didn't know if I knew about Piedmont Raging Granny's, but I think we should all go hear them. Where are you playing out loud in the chat?

[01:18:55]>> Yeah, that is a wonderful Just talking about a band name that is an actual band name, but it's great. It is like we've got a real band name kids. Um and we have Piedmont is a Virginia word but I realize it's in other places too like North Carolina. So I'm wondering where the Piedmont Granny's are based.

[01:19:12]>> Yeah, that's true. Um maybe they will.

[01:19:15]>> Oh, and Vicki here.

[01:19:17]>> I see Vicky. Vicky I didn't couch before Vicki that you were here who I went to college with. Vicky Davis. Um and 47 is the magical number of Pomona College.

[01:19:29]So, if I hadn't known Vicki that you were my Vicky Davis, I would have known immediately because of the 47 after your name. Um, so there uh someone already people already knew about those granny's. Um, so anyway, yes, tell us where >> we we can we can sort of wrap it up soon because I want you >> we need to get out of this room because they want to clean it. There's another big coming in. So, they were really kind. They're like, "We can give you an extra 20 minutes, 30 tops, but you got to be out." I'm like, "Okay."

[01:20:01]>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, I I'm gonna I'm gonna let you go so that you have the opportunity to actually um but everybody, um, thank you guys for being here. Um, I can't absolutely promise I'll be on tonight, but I might. Uh, I'll figure out depending on how exhausted I am at the end of >> I'll get home on time and I'll be able to tune in.

[01:20:24]>> I I hope you get home on time. I hope you have I do too. I love the train.

[01:20:30]>> I love the train too.

[01:20:31]>> I love >> Yeah. So, okay everybody be safe everybody.

[01:20:35]>> See you in one way or another very soon.

[01:20:38]>> Love you guys. Thanks for being with us.

[01:20:40]>> Bye everybody.

[01:20:42]>> Bye.