SA Explained | Madlanga, Mogotsi and the rot still coming | 22 May 2026

Añadido: 2026-05-22

[00:00:01]Welcome back to another episode of SA Explained. I'm joined by Yusuf Abramjee.

[00:00:05]I'm not alone this time around and we're going to be chatting everything Masondo Commission and the external SAPS operations that are taking place, via arrests, and of course the controversial issues and some of the challenges that are confronting some of these senior SAPS officials and of course the criminal justice system. Yusuf, thank you very much for joining me for the first time you're here. Thank you, Pule.

[00:00:28][laughter] Yeah, how's it been?

[00:00:30]Well, never a dull moment in South Africa. We know that we often say blood, bodies, and bullets has become a way of life. We know crime affects each and every South African.

[00:00:41]And we know that the revelations at the Masondo Commission uh have been keeping yourself and myself very busy because almost by the week there have been arrests and some high-profile arrests, a lot of revelations at the Masondo Commission, and South Africans are glued to watching the drama unfolding. It's really a soap opera unfolding in South Africa for the past few months.

[00:01:04]Before we get into some of the central wheelers and dealers, like you would say, I just want to touch about phase two of the Masondo Commission, right?

[00:01:12]We've seen a number of witnesses come back. We've seen Julius Sekhukhunazi come back. In fact, the commissioners had said that they may have to probe as to whether he lied or misled the commission when he said he was going to a funeral of his mother because it turned out it was actually not his mother but his stepmother. So, there was an issue around that. But they also focused on the city of Tshwane. I know you've covered extensively some of the operations of TMPD, interviewing Yolanda Faro, chief of police. Then Oumashie Shamini was placed on precautionary suspension. The issue around the city manager and the contracts there. Take us through that. Um what did you How did you view the conduct of some of these witnesses but also how the commission was probing?

[00:01:53]Pule, I've said this from the very beginning.

[00:01:55]If there was no Masondo Commission, we wouldn't have been here today.

[00:02:00]If General Mkhwanazi, Lieutenant General Mkhwanazi didn't stand up last year with that uh media conference making all these allegations, no arrest would have been made or very few arrests would have been made. So, clearly what's coming out from the Madlanga Commission, he is the criminal justice system, as we often say, under the spotlight. The rot is coming out. But again, I believe it's only a small chunk of what is happening.

[00:02:29]A lot of things uh haven't come before the Commission as yet, and I don't think will come before the Commission. We know that the time frame is limited. We know that that there was an extension in the mandate, and we know that the Commission is currently taking a 2-week break to prepare the second interim report that it will be forwarded to the president by the end of the month.

[00:02:49]In the first report, there were at least six law enforcement officials, and I say law enforcement because one is the uh was a deputy uh EMPD Chief Julius Mkhwanazi that has been heavily implicated at the Commission. Uh we know that um the number of cops implicated has not come to an end. Uh we we all uh we were together last week uh Pule on Friday when the drama unfolded when Brown Mkhize uh yes, I call him a wheeler and dealer, you can call him a businessman like some people call him, you can call him a uh uh uh middleman, whatever the case may be.

[00:03:25]When he brought a recusal application for the chief evidence leader, I think we were all taken by surprise because uh let's not forget that Matthew Cheskelson is no fool.

[00:03:36]Uh and during the uh legal arguments, it was clear that Mkhize was just trying to delay his testimony before the Commission, and and he failed. And we also know that Mkhize took only certain selective messages, and that prompted the commission or the the the evidence one of the evidence leaders Adila has some senior counsel to say that he needs to be investigated for contraventions of the commissions act for possible defeating the ends of justice and perjury and when Mkhize was then ordered to take the stand I think that is when we really saw the true side of Brian Mkhize evading questions all he few hundred times in the four or five hours before the commission last Friday was let me not incriminate myself I don't want to incriminate myself And what happened next we had word while the evidence was continuing that there was a J15 >> Around half past five we were still sitting inside and there was movements inside the the venue where we are in fact we saw one lady coming in and we were notified that actually this is an an official an officer from SAPS who was actually monitoring the situation and they would be coordinating his arrest I want to know why did did they not take him to Cos Mkhize because we we understood he was going to go there but later taken to another police station which police say we shouldn't disclose No let's recap the J50 the warrant of arrest was issued around the 17th of April the big question Pule is why was the warrant not executed I'm of the view that police waited and they were very strategic because they wanted to make sure that Brian Mkhize testified and he was done at the commission and that's exactly what happened at 5:06 the commission wrapped up on Friday yes we were told that they're going to arrest him on on route back either to the Northwest or to Johannesburg police were waiting we are told at the at the prison outside Pretoria but what happened was they decided to follow him from the commission right on the N1 to Johannesburg and between Pretoria and Joburg where we stopped shortly after he was arrested and we we broke the news That is where he was arrested and then taken to a police station in Johannesburg. We didn't mention that police station because our sources and police asked us not to for safety and security reasons. And that is where he's being being detained. Let's recap. Bheki Cele and he'll be back in court on Monday continuing or rather applying for bail was arrested for allegedly staging his own assassination.

[00:06:12]>> Correct. We know this character has in first alert on that particular evening in November last year. That is where shots were fired at his car. And from the very beginning right here on eNCA a witness told us that they're suspecting very something very suspicious that that disappears to be a staged assassination.

[00:06:33]>> say I'm I must say like you know hats off to Naomi Kobe who was there on the scene as well who was speaking to found this witness and they spoke together.

[00:06:41]But you you were on the pulse. If I remember giving you a call that morning you were saying look you're a bit skeptical. You're like ah this is probably classical Bheki Cele again. I was very skeptical from the beginning because there you have a car that Bheki Cele was apparently using. It's got no license disk. It belongs to a dealership in in Johannesburg. And again when the ballistic experts combed that scene and looked at the car my sources said to me immediately something is not right. He wasn't even hit. Several shots were fired. And that is where the investigation began. And like we reported last week on Friday that investigation was completed a few weeks ago and that is why they decided to get a warrant of arrest for him. And I I wouldn't be surprised Pule that we're going to see more arrests for in the case of Bheki Cele. Police still have to recover the gun that was used in that alleged attempted assassination.

[00:07:30]>> to multiple murders like you were saying.

[00:07:32]>> to multiple murders we are told to some shootings in Eldorado Park in Roodepoort. The gun has to be found.

[00:07:38]And I wouldn't be surprised if rogue cops or some of them associated with rogue cops are going to be arrested and I involved because our our sources within the investigations are saying that you'll be shocked when we make some more arrests in this case.

[00:07:54]>> Which which is which makes sense because I remember when a General Cardua and of course General Philo's Khan were arrested on a Sunday and taken in by members of GCIO Ops you know PKTT was part of the operations at times as well.

[00:08:07]We reported a few days ago that there was a raid that took place in Bryston.

[00:08:13]It's just we were quite busy other things at the Majola Commission but SAPS didn't know about it so we we we we didn't really probe or look further into it but what was quite astonishing was when we were at the Majola Commission and we heard that this is the address of Boqwana's co-handler there from Bryston as well. So it linked that that's the reason why the PKTT would have raided that that property a few days ago because Boqwana at times was you know in a way attempting to mislead the commission by saying that his handler was the late Brigadier Duma.

[00:08:43]Indeed, we had word of that particular raid in Bryston. We were not sure police didn't want to say anything and it emerged at the commission under under questioning on Friday Boqwana was saying that the his crime intelligence handler had his house in Bryston raided. And and we we we we sure that a number of seizures were made. However, Pule let's go back to the arrest of General Philo's Khan from crime intelligence and General Ibrahim Cardua the head of the Hawks in Gauteng. You remember we had a tip off at about 7:00 that Sunday morning. Yeah. And we were the first to break the news right here on ENCA saying that two top cops were arrested.

[00:09:24]>> Yeah, in the morning actually in the morning, yeah. And we named them immediately and we are often asked and the police don't name these people because they say you know they wait for them to appear in court but we named them like we often do with all other arrests, because we believe it's in the public interest. If these people are arrested, and we know from our sources, three or more sources, that they've been arrested, we break the news. And I remember when you raced to the Houghton, where General Khan was arrested, you saw all the activity, the movement, and within an hour or two, he was then taken away, and he appeared in court on Monday. That partic- Those particular charges uh relate to an incident dating back a few years, where a a security guy from Durban was allegedly transporting gold uh to to Durban. He was intercepted at O.R. Tambo. The scanners picked it up, and and the rest is history. Uh I say the rest is history because it now has to come before a court of law. General Khan allegedly told General Kadwa to release him. They say it was a crime intelligence operation, uh and and all three of them, when they appeared in court, and they were given bail, there was no opposition to bail in that particular case. They were given bail very quickly. But in all cases that we we've covered, uh including the one of the alleged killer of Marius van der Merwe, the former task force member was applying for bail. Uh we know what happened in the taxi boss Joe Ferrari case. We know what happened in the Brown Makhortsi case. Uh and I can go on and on.

[00:10:55]It appears that these raids, these arrests, are not strategically they well planned and well executed. So, [clears throat] they would normally take the suspects on a Friday or Saturday or even hold them in custody for a night or two or three. Then, when they appear, they'll ask for a 7-day postponement.

[00:11:12]They will then oppose bail, and it gives the these suspects a bit of time to feel how life is behind bars. And the the other day, when we counted, we have at least 25 or 26 senior police officials in the dock. And I'm talking of the last 3 months. Right from the national police commissioner, General Fannie Masemola, >> to brigadiers, to major generals, and I think the lowest rank is the famous or infamous Sergeant Fannie Khumalo.

[00:11:42]>> And it's still pending investigations.

[00:11:43]>> will, by the way, appear in court on another charge.

[00:11:46]>> [laughter] >> And don't be surprised over the coming weeks more charges are going to be added. But again, Pule, like we've been predicting, and I think the acting Minister of Police um uh Fikile Khumalo said it in Parliament this week. You can expect more arrests like the arrests we've seen with Brian Molefe. Um there is no doubt that more cops are going to be arrested. You and I have been saying for a long time we have information that more warrants have been executed have been issued. They're just waiting for the right time to take these people in. Uh so, I think we're going to see a lot of action over the coming weeks. And as the Mdhluli Commission resumes on the 1st of June, uh where more witnesses are going to take the stand. And you're right, Pule, to come back to your first point you were making.

[00:12:29]Um the likes of uh businessman Salim Essa Karim has to return to the commission. We know that uh other people uh have have to return to the commission. I think the only exception so far that we know of is Lieutenant General Khomotso Phahlane, the suspended Deputy National Police Commissioner for Crime Detection, who confirmed that the commission said >> Where is Phahlane, by the way? Where is he? Yusuf, where is he? So, Phahlane, you remember the last time we visited him was at his house in Centurion on a small holding when the PKTT raided him last year sometime. And that is when he uh seized all these devices and telephones. But uh I'm even told that um it appears that that is one of many investigations. Look here, my the big question is, and people have been saying, when is when are the likes of General Phahlane going to be arrested?

[00:13:15]Uh remember, you know, it's good to make an allegation, whether it's corruption, whether it's perjury, defeating the ends of justice, but to prove it and to take the docker to the NPA to see if you've got a winnable case is a different argument.

[00:13:28]>> Which one I wanted to get in there now cuz >> the same and the same with the IPID the Ekurhuleni investigation on on on the murder of a suspect some years ago.

[00:13:36]>> Which is a conversation I was having with Lizeka and obviously I don't want you to to touch on this as well where she says that the Emmanuel I'm Bhengu and Precious Stones case, right? Which happened I think in Rosebank, Johannesburg. Emmanuel I'm Bhengu and Brakpan.

[00:13:49]This is what Marius van der Merwe was was testifying about. She said the engagements with the DPP on this matter are at an advanced stage, right?

[00:13:57]And then on the Msikeli case >> [laughter] >> On the Msikeli case she says IPID is awaiting final decision from the TPP. However, when you look at the cops that are being implicated from the city of Tshwane, IPID is not looking into these cases.

[00:14:14]Pule, I I tweeted it the other day and I asked a question.

[00:14:18]>> by the way, this is new information. I think Ayabulela, our producer, will be happy about this. New information. No one has information regarding the the status of these cases.

[00:14:25]IPID ought to be independent. It's the Independent Police Investigative Directorate. In terms of the law, they report to the Minister of Police, which in my view I've been saying for a very long time is a problem.

[00:14:37]IPID, are they truly independent? I often have to wonder and I ask the question and we know that IPID's workload is heavy. It's crazy.

[00:14:46]>> When I interviewed the acting head of IPID last year on Crime Watch, she said that they simply cannot cope. They have thousands and thousands of cases.

[00:14:53]>> And we heard that at the commission as well.

[00:14:54]>> Correct. Yeah. But it does raise the question. Here you have a case, the Imbhengu case, where the suspect was murdered, his body was dumped in a in a dam in Brakpan on the outskirts of Brakpan. Marius van der Merwe came to the commission and you were there when he testified in camera, so to speak. And he was called witness D and eventually we know what happened to Marius van der Merwe.

[00:15:20]So, IPID has been acting very, very slow. I don't know if they have the resources or they don't have the evidence, but here we are weeks later when we know that the docket has been taken to the N National Director of Public Prosecutions. We know that cops, metro cops are implicated. We know one or two civilians from the security industry are implicated. We know that Julius Makhonazi, the deputy suspended EPD chief is implicated, but the big question is why no arrest? Four or five years later. In fact, when and I want you to also like zoom into this, we you know, when when the We need to be very careful. CRTT Commissioner recommended a task team looking into what has been unearthed in the commission.

[00:16:07]>> [laughter] [laughter] >> Well, they they made an arrest and arrested Julius Makhonazi and of course Khakhisile Ruth for separate case, nothing relates to the commission. But we got wind of the fact that IPID was not impressed by this because they are of the view that their case looking into Julius Makhonazi is almost final and and they they they believe that the CRTT perhaps jumped the gun and IPID are IPID are the ones who have the docket looking into this matter. And the same sentiment we had when Joe Ferrari and his co-accused were arrested. Correct. We know those arrests were executed by the Mpumalanga Organized Crime Unit. Now, Pule, I get the sense uh I don't have evidence, but I get the sense there is a turf war between the police, IDEC, which falls under the NPA, and IPID, which which ought to be independent. The one is trying to outshine the other. Now, we know when the likes of General Komalo and members of the crime intelligence were arrested by IDEC, the police were very upset and they are still upset. We know, for example, when certain other individuals were arrested, certain elements within I dick I put and the police were also not very very impressed. So and I hope not. I hope not they that we dealing here with a turf war or so-called tit-for-tat arrest because if that is true our criminal justice system is going to go down further into into the hole and we cannot afford that.

[00:17:39]Law enforcement agencies pull it. I don't have to tell you they have to work together and I I think at this time with so much misinformation we have to be very very careful because just the other day social media was saying there's a water to forest for the case that in provincial commissioner Lieutenant General in front of Makunazi who by the way is going to be the newsmaker of the year for the national press. I was actually I actually wanted to ask you that because I just got a message here saying that good day colleagues. Please be reminded sergeant funny and cause he's appearing at the Pretoria North Magistrate Court on the 21st of May. I believe that that's that's tomorrow right? Or 21st or whatever it is. You know you know pull it the problem is there so many of these guys appearing every day it's difficult to [laughter] keep touch with it because even tomorrow Marius van der Merwe's alleged killer is continuing his bail application in Boksburg. We know that He's in he's in trouble. I mean seen as all the evidence against him is overwhelming. That's Mr. Soteni and as far as we understand there's the Marius sent messages on a WhatsApp group chat to say there was a Suzuki that is following him with his number plate. And that's the car that Soteni was in. It belongs to his girlfriend and they live together in Bosonia and the wife lives with the with the children in Bedford View. But clearly this shows is someone who has the means to afford these two families. But here's what's quite intricate in this this document. Soteni is apparently refusing to show the court his pay slip and who's paying him which is what is quite concerning because we know that the firearms that are found in his house were linked to company Tactical Security Services TSS which is also quite a prominent as well.

[00:19:20]Yeah, indeed bully when I when I listen to his evidence in the form of an affidavit read out by his advocate the on Tuesday this week uh clearly he's denying that he was involved in the shooting.

[00:19:32]However, he does acknowledge that he knew Vianney Pretorius the undercover or former policeman uh or reserve policeman who died that that took his own life uh and there was also in the evidence led by the prosecution saying that in the run-up to Marius van der Merwe being shot that particular night at his house in Brackpan a a black vehicle was following him uh they had he put a number plate on and that black vehicle is registered in uh Sothane's wife's name.

[00:20:03]Uh interestingly enough they were together he said he dropped him at the police station Vianney's partner or girlfriend then uh came to pick him up. Um the cell phones went off simultaneously Yeah.

[00:20:15]around the time that the that Marius van der Merwe was shot. Yeah.

[00:20:19]I must say yes um there could there perhaps there could be no direct link but in my view without pre-empting the court decision either for bail or for trial I think that there is enough circumstantial evidence and I'll be very surprised because remember he's facing 16 charges one of murder three or four of attempted murder they found AK-47 rounds they found ammunition they found a firearm at his house and you remember I posted that video on social media when the PKTT took him down uh quickly within minutes um a heavily armed tactical unit members took him down they arrested him and they brought him before a court of law. So he is denying the allegations against him and um yeah I mean this is a schedule five offense like we've seen a number of the cases in the schedule five offense and while bail is the right to everyone if there's a very strong case and if there's evidence that you're going to be interfering with state witnesses or that you're going to be become a fugitive bail will will often be denied and we saw such an funny in course in being denied bail. We saw that Fadi Adams a member of parliament spending what over a week behind bars and finally getting bail. I'm still talking after that. talking so [laughter] I think I think a lot of focus is on our courts but I mean the the Quqa Fontaine case where the prosecutor failed to pitch up on Monday that led to the four suspects being freed has been a talking point for the week and like I said on on ENCA the other day the focus is purely it appears on the on the prosecutor but let's not forget that the chief magistrate of Mpumalanga demanded we were there and when we met them the magistrate Erasmus in in his chambers before and he told us clearly that I've been instructed I'm not listening to the case I have to postpone it to Friday which was quite strange and eventually Friday the chief magistrate came she heard the case she postponed it to Monday the prosecutor didn't pitch for whatever reason he now claims he feared for his life and that she held him in contempt of court issued a warrant for his arrest and and released the four suspects but again I think the the state or the prosecution is ready or about to serve this month of that particular case we're going to find those four people the four suspects within the taxi industry behind the dock again very soon. I want to go back to the Sothoteni case right because we know that his previous bosses and you can confirm Muhammad Sayed Carl Phillips from Carnilex of course the tobacco giants as well these companies are running tobacco right and we know that Phillips lives in Bosonia as well and this is where so so attorney was residing. So, it ties with the stuff we have seen in that affidavit, right?

[00:23:09]Um but also, I I I just want to find out something because I find it very strange that the the applicants would would so attorney so attorney's employer refused to share information relating to his remuneration or salary. And why didn't the investigating officer get a warrant?

[00:23:24]I I don't know why because you know, cases are delayed for years because of such crucial information and outstanding ballistic reports as well.

[00:23:34]Indeed. So, he confirmed so attorney confirmed to the court that he worked for Muhammad Sayed, one of the partners at Kalining's for a long time. He says that he doesn't own an AK-47.

[00:23:45]Sayed owned an AK-47 when he worked for him. And we know that these people within the tobacco industry have a lot of bodyguards. They've got a lot of protectors. And we know very well, Pule, that a lot of questions have been asked. In fact, the first attorney that went to represent him, um so attorney fired him straight away and we believe it was somebody one of his former employees or employee was sent a particular lawyer there and then he he hired another legal team.

[00:24:11]Um I think a lot is going to come out uh from this particular hearing. We know that the tobacco industry is very often tainted with a lot of wrongdoing.

[00:24:22]Uh and and interestingly enough in his in his testimony, I picked up in the affidavit where he said that he met Vianney Pretorius at a illicit uh cigarette raid or a a seizure that was made on the East Rand. And at that time, he probably was working for this particular tobacco company. And then him and Muhammad Sayed, according to so attorney, had a fallout. Uh there was an incident in Cape Town uh and they had a fallout and he was then they then parted ways. And I'm told that that particular incident might be relating to an incident where on a boat in Cape Town where one of the bodyguards of Said was sitting on the edge of the boat and they allowed him to sit sit there and he refused to move and he fell out the off the boat and then I think he lost his legs or something to the to the to that effect. So that is the the incident that apparently led to the fallout. But again, you know, I think a lot of stories will still have to come out.

[00:25:21]Let's not forget that he this particular accused was a member of the very elite police task force and they they >> Well trained as well. Good sniper over here. And and it was confirmed that when Marius van der Merwe witness D was shot, it was one shot to the head.

[00:25:37]It was somebody in the passenger seat that shot him. And again, interestingly enough, he confirmed in his affidavit that when they drove around that particular area Brakpan, Viandre was driving and he was in the passenger seat. I'm not saying that he pulled the trigger, but it does raise a lot of questions from the affidavit that he's already given during the bail application. Before we wrap, obviously I want to sign summarize it again with phase two. I want to know for you who was probably the mumpara of Muzi of phase two because here you have Brown Mkhize, you have Sergeant Nkosi, you have all these characters. But also in hindsight, is there a world in which you would imagine the likes of Brown Mkhize and of course Sergeant Funny Nkosi turning state witness?

[00:26:24]Well, >> with there there was there were there were reports the other day that Vusi Keyt Mthimkhulu is planning to blow the whistle and planning to turn state witness.

[00:26:32]>> In fact, they're also saying that he wants a non-custodial non-custody imprisonment if he's to go section 204.

[00:26:39]>> what is almost impossible. Well, what usually happens, if there's overwhelming evidence against an accused, they will they will turn so-called section 204 witness, which means is if you testify honestly, openly and the magistrate or the judge finds it, they give you indemnity from prosecution.

[00:26:57]I wouldn't be surprised that we're going to find one or two people turning state witness.

[00:27:01]And yes, in the first report, we had six referrals, all of them law enforcement officials.

[00:27:08]I I'll be very keen to see in the second report which is coming out or which which is going to be presented to the president before the 29th of this month whether the commission are going to list so-called civilians or politicians. The likes of Brown Mokgoroane, the likes of suspended police minister Senzo Mchunu, who by the way, I can't understand how he is still on gardening leave. That man should have been fired long ago. There might not be any criminal element to it, but clearly he used his political influence and he and it was outside his ambit to to demand the closure of the PKTT. All right? We have an acting police minister, right? We have an acting national police commissioner. The longer it's going to take Pule to get stability within the South African Police Service, the longer the criminals are going to smile all the way to the bank because criminals take advantage of the situation. And disruptions within the Police Service, the the problems within the criminal justice system is playing right in the hands of these organized crime syndicate leaders. But I can I'm I'm quite confident we're going to see a number of more names coming up in the second referrals. And I think the the law enforcement agencies are going to move swifter and very much quicker in bringing these people and bringing them in the dock.

[00:28:29]>> What do you make of the metros?

[00:28:29]Ekurhuleni already under the spotlight.

[00:28:31]TMPD phase two was central. We saw the alleged tender irregularities and just how some of these senior officials were compromised in TMPD. And next we understand we're going to Johannesburg where they'll be looking into a serious A a tender contracts to trim of about over a billion which was awarded, blue lights, and security services again being recruited based on irregular contracts or tendering systems.

[00:28:57]Ekurhuleni is a mess.

[00:28:59]A royal mess. I don't have to tell you.

[00:29:01]>> [laughter] >> City of Tshwane what came out of the commission, millions paid to security companies for so-called ad hoc services for work that was never done. We know that Sergeant Inkosi was interfering there and he was trying to use his influence with the city manager, with the deputy EMPD chief.

[00:29:19]Clearly, we need to see some decisive action either with the SIU or with the NPA or with the police or with IPID.

[00:29:27]City of Johannesburg, we were told that a number of investigations are ongoing.

[00:29:31]We know that a metro police cop from Johannesburg, he was working very closely with Molefe who's out on bail also awaiting trial.

[00:29:40]That particular cop he still has to come before the commission. We are told there's talk about security contracts in the city of Johannesburg.

[00:29:46]>> Correct. So, when it comes to local government play, there's no doubt we're going to see some action over the coming weeks. And let's not forget we're in an election year. November the 4th is election day and in the build-up to election day, I think a lot of rot and it's still going to come out and and you you spoke to to to the DA in city of Tshwane and they've also come up with a dossier implicating a number of politicians in Pretoria in the capital. So, that still has to be the subject of investigation.

[00:30:17]So, yes what we are seeing as far as the three metros are concerned, very very concerning. But again, the quicker we see a finalization, the better it will be for stability within the criminal justice system and specifically within the South African Police Service. I know this is not in relation to the Zondo Commission, but I think it's very important. I know our producer is going to just give me a lash for this for wasting time, but the MMC who is facing charges of um kidnapping and um pointing a firearm to a minor as well. We just got um a statement from the lawyers as well regarding the true reflective events of what happened, but this is quite serious because we understand um she was arrested but didn't appear in court. We now seeing the DA saying they're going to be making representations to the national director of public prosecutions. Once again, casting light on senior public officials being involved in this particular incident. She's not the only one. There are other MMC's we understand are facing uh a number of controversial issues as well such um you know, in relation to misconduct and acting out of the mandate of their office, Yusuf. Indeed, Pule.

[00:31:23]That particular arrest of the MMC in Johannesburg, they tried to hide it away. We had word of it. We had insight into some of the police reports. We know that the MMC allegedly, together with a bodyguard, uh her bodyguard, or um I don't know if it's from a security company or a city of Johannesburg bodyguard, um apparently found the she found a daughter walking the street with a youngster of about 15 or 16 years old.

[00:31:48]There was a problem. They allegedly kidnapped the youngster. They assaulted him. There was a pointing of a firearm.

[00:31:54]Uh and the youngster or his family then opened a charge with police that saw the MMC being arrested, uh spending a few hours if not overnight behind bars.

[00:32:03]There was then a withdrawal statement and the charges were withdrawn and the matter wasn't enrolled before a court of law. Be it as it may, even if the charges were withdrawn, there needs to be a full investigation as to why the charges were withdrawn, as to what happened. And remember, even if the charges were withdrawn, the NPA can still enroll a matter and they can still press for charges. So, I'm I'm I'm very keen to see how that particular um uh arrest uh is going to unfold. I don't think that that particular debate or argument is going to go away. She says our client's concern arose from her prior objections to the relationship," like you just mentioned. "However, it must be categorically mentioned that at no stage was the minor boy held against his will, nor was he assaulted or threatened with a firearm. Following a brief discussion, the minor boy left peacefully and returned home. Our client's intention was simply to address the situation, right? She says, "Our client was thereafter surprised to learn that the police were looking for her.

[00:33:02]She presented herself to the police station, where she was arrested. The complainant subsequently withdrew the case. The matter was never enrolled in court, and our on our client's therefore appeared before the Rudeboy Wait. Our client therefore never appeared before the Rudeboy Magistrate's Court. We further emphasize that our client is currently undergoing difficult emotional distressing, and yeah.

[00:33:21]>> I think they said she lost her mom and all of that stuff, so yeah. So, what do you make of it? Is there a case here if the DA is going to the NDPP?

[00:33:26]>> Charges were opened. There was an arrest made. Yeah. The charges were withdrawn.

[00:33:30]It wasn't enrolled.

[00:33:32]>> obtained. Correct. I think that I think the DA, or whoever, might have a a case for the NPA and the police to answer, because these are very serious allegations, and as much as the MMC is denying the allegations, there needs to be a full investigation. And at the end of the day, the NPA, the the national director, can then make a decision whether to prosecute or not.

[00:33:53]Okay. But be it as it may, Pule, Mhm.

[00:33:55]we in a very critical stage in South Africa.

[00:33:58]Um we've been breaking these stories almost by the day of arrests, of search and seizure warrants, of people implicated in crime, and there's no way, in my view, we're going to see this action disappearing. Stay close to eNCA Stay Stay close to our social media accounts for these stories, because you can be assured that once we have confirmation of a story or arrest being made from our sources, and even if the police don't confirm it, we'll you'll be able to get the news first here on on eNCA. So, Momelezi Mokopa of the of of of the phase two, who of the witnesses to the Matau Commission, who are you giving it to? No, I wouldn't say >> Who are you crowning with this crowning achievement?

[00:34:39]>> even call him [laughter] the Mamphela of the week or the Mamphela of the month. I think he'll be the Mamphela of the year or the Mamphela of the day.

[00:34:47]Okay. The wheeling dealer.

[00:34:49]>> dealer cleared in a red tuxedo [laughter] or a red Crop top crop top t-shirt, yeah.

[00:34:54]>> Let me not incriminate myself, but I think that the award will go to the the infamous Brian Molefe. Okay. Thank you very much for joining us. Of course, this is SA Explains and we'll be back with more in a couple of weeks when the Matau Commission returns on the 1st of June.