CAPACI / Franco Fracassi

Added: 2026-05-23

[00:00:19][music] Ah.

[00:01:12][music] the ه لايلا [music] [sing] [singing] الا الله ลмаك [music][sing] [singing] [music] [singing] [singing] [music] [singing] Good evening everyone and welcome and welcome back to 100 days Leoni. It's still Tuesday, May 19, 7:08 PM, and this evening Franco Fracassi is back. Hi Franco, how are you? welcome.

[00:02:41]HI. Good, good.

[00:02:46]Locapaci, I think, is quite an important name in the history of Italy, and obviously this evening we're talking about what happened a few years ago, also because the anniversary will be in four days. It's crazy to say, Franco, obviously we already have a lot of information and hypotheses very clear in our heads, but after so many years I honestly believe that the vast majority of the Italian population hasn't fully understood what happened that day and above all who the real instigators of that road were. Franco, thank you so much, let's start this wonderful live broadcast.

[00:03:29]So, the discussion is a bit complex and I'll try to summarize it and make it clear.

[00:03:40]Um, in Italy, in the 70s, there was and let's say there was a real offensive test on the part of those in power. the power of the State, but also the power of the deep State, the power of the deep state, but also the power exercised by the United States of America to prevent political changes within the Italian government.

[00:04:15]These were the years in which the Communist Party was on the rise and obviously the Communist Party should not have gone into government at all costs.

[00:04:27]And following this, let's say, this objective, the then president of the Christian Democracy, Aldo Moro, was sacrificed in 1978, who was kidnapped and assassinated, but in reality it had already been, how can I say, his death had already been decided before the kidnapping, that is, he was not supposed to survive that kidnapping, because the Unis party was not supposed to go into government. So there was Moro, he wasn't the only one, it's not like there was this isolated figure who wanted to bring the PC into the government. In reality, there was a large current of thought within the then Christian Democracy, which is the party with the relative majority in the country and obviously with the most weight within the government. there was a large current of thought that instead supported the need to normalise relations and that the PC, er, had to somehow enter the government and the key figure of this current of thought after Moro was a certain Pieranti Mattarella, the brother of the President of the Republic.

[00:05:52]So, Pieranti Mattarella was so convinced of this that he tried to bring the Communist Party into the regional government of Sicily, which was not taken at all well, so much so that the then secretary of the Communist Party, Pio La Torre, was assassinated—it was said for a very long time and is still often said—by the mafia.

[00:06:17]In short, he was eliminated because that agreement should not have been made. And all the political experts, the historians, the political experts of the time, the profound connoisseurs of the Christian Democracy were certain that with Moro's death, his place would be taken by Pieranti Mattarella and therefore that he would become secretary of the Christian Democracy and therefore would, let's say, open the way for the Communist Party to enter the government exactly as his master Aldo Moro wanted.

[00:06:54]So Mattarella had to be eliminated and in fact he was eliminated. Here too it has been said repeatedly that if someone is murdered in Sicily it is a mafia murder, it has been said that the mafia was killed. but nothing could be further from all this.

[00:07:11]There are repentants after repentants who have told over time how things actually happened and that murder, that is, the murder of the brother of the current President of the Republic, was allegedly perpetrated by the leader of the NAR revolutionary armed nuclei, which were, let's say, the far-right terrorist wing Fioravanti Gius Fioravanti together with Cavallini on the orders of Licogelli. So the same person who had ordered the kidnapping of Moro obviously on the orders of the CIA and the United States of America is the one who ordered the assassination of Aldo Moro's heir, that is, Pieranti Mattarella. So why am I telling you about this? Because precisely all these murders have always been classified as mafia, because at the time, in the 70s, in the 80s and even in my opinion up until today, but 7080 for sure, no one had any idea that there was a structure in Italy that is a structure directly dependent on NATO and that was born together with NATO, that is, the North Atlantic Pact, the military one, um, which was responsible for coordinating all the versions, so the black version, the red version, the mafia version and so on to support the foreign policy of the United States of America.

[00:08:58]This was unknown to everyone.

[00:09:01]This organization which then emerged in 1990, was called Gladio or Stay Behind.

[00:09:09]well, that is, a direct NATO organization, that is, it was actually part of the NATO treaty, it was unknown to everyone, so no one could because it was the center of the underground foreign policy of NATO and therefore of the United States of America and no one was supposed to know about it. All those who came to know things or to discover them, almost were on the verge of discovering them, were killed, every last one.

[00:09:39]And what else did this mean? He meant that if this thing were discovered, a conspiracy would be discovered where, on exactly the same level, there were mafiosi, there were right-wing extremists, there were left-wing extremists, there were, um, gladiators, there were, uh, our secret services and so on.

[00:10:05]this connection with organised crime of all kinds and so on. This plot, which I wrote a book about called The Italy Project, was actually the result of an agreement that had been signed—a signed written agreement called The Italy Project, signed in 1943—in which this sort of organization was built.

[00:10:31]So, and this thing, this Italy Project organization is the one that guided all the foreign policy of the United States, the coups d'état, the massacres, the wars, the assassinations, the kidnappings, everything revolved around this structure.

[00:10:48]So it's a fundamental structure, it shouldn't have emerged in any way. Well. Well, Giovanni Falcone, um, in his investigations he is also Borsellino, but Giovanni Falconi in particular had reconstructed these things and had discovered this structure.

[00:11:13]Um, Borsellino revealed this thing before he died obviously because he had before, well, in the two months that passed since the Capaci massacre, the one on Via D'Amelio, Borsellino, who was his friend, his great friend, his colleague in the investigations and so on, revealed why Falcone had moved to Rome in the meantime and had moved to Rome to work in the Ministry also to be able to continue that type of investigation, even though he was no longer, let's say, a public prosecutor and he revealed that he had spoken on May 22nd, so the day before the Capaci massacre with Falcone and from Borsellino's words I discovered many things. Those many things are precisely the existence of this structure that put all these individuals on the same level, so if someone had to be eliminated, that someone could be eliminated indifferently by the Red Brigades, by the front line, by the NAR, by any other type of far- right fascist organization or even by the mafia, or even by the Sicilian mafia, the Neapolitan mafia, the Camorra, the 'Ndrangheta or even by the Magliana gang, it doesn't matter if it was the Brenta gang or it doesn't matter where, in short it was completely indifferent and there was always someone who took the blame, that is, this is a mafia right, this is a fascist right, this is the right of someone else and so on, but in reality it was always the same thing.

[00:12:50]And Falcone must be discovered.

[00:12:51]You have to come back.

[00:12:53]Yes, tell me, tell me. I ca n't hear you anymore. Okay, let's make a text link with Bamp and go back to Capaci for a moment.

[00:13:04]However, this is very interesting news from a few days ago. What happened, Franco?

[00:13:10]So, it's been a few days since the magistrates investigating that gigantic ship that sank on August 19, 2024, so 2 years ago inside the Porticciolo, the port of Porticciolo. small port, in the town near Palermo and it mysteriously sank one night, that is, this ship apparently came along a whirlwind and took it down and disappeared into thin air. So, that sinking was not actually due to bad weather, as had been declared, [laughter] but other causes of Bagliese had something to do with it, because Porticciolo was the port of our secret services. Porticciolo is the port of Gladio, Porticciolo is the port of the mafia and in Porticciolo the Czechoslovakian Semtex coming from Croatia lands. Last time we talked about the Yugoslav wars, didn't we? And how somehow our secret services and our organized crime were involved in that war. Here, the meeting to decide on the Capaci massacre was held by the mafia in Zagreb.

[00:14:29]Think, think about where they decided to get rid of Falcone. In Zagreb, therefore in Croatia. And that, that, let's say, that explosive came from Croatia and, um, what's it called? and he landed precisely at Porticello, eh, which was precisely the port where there was one of those structures that didn't need investigating, that is, everything that falls at Porticello is always hidden, always covered up and whoever took possession of this explosive to prepare this death trap, this one to produce this one practically blew up, it's not like they made a hole in the highway, they opened a sinkhole, they blew up I don't know how many, how many hundreds of meters of highway to take out Falcone. Well.

[00:15:29]And the person who did this was a Sicilian mafioso, but in reality a member of Ordine Nuovo. Ordine Nuovo was a far-right terrorist organization [snort] and Ordine Nuovo staged coups in Italy, it really did everything.

[00:15:54]Well, this person called a certain Pietro Rampulla, this person from the new order, is the one who took the explosives and built the bomb that blew up Borsellino's car, sorry, Falcone's car, and the escort car, etc., etc. there are other elements that go in this direction, that is, that tell of what happened that day. So, in the operational meeting to decide exactly what would happen that day, the person who founded Vanguard National, another far-right organization, was also present, a certain Stefano delle Chiaie, the most important neo-fascist in the history of Italy and perhaps in the history of the world, because Stefano delle Chiaia was the armed wing of Licogelli, he was the one who essentially said Gelly needed a coup in Bolivia and he went to Bolivia and organized the coup. He is the one who helped Pinochet set up a secret police to torture and kidnap people. I mean, he was such a character. Well.

[00:17:06]Why was Licio so important? Why was Licio Gelly the head of these operations? Because many have asked themselves this. He did favors, we all know that. But why do you think he managed almost everything?

[00:17:20]So, and for a question, let's say, of lived experience and historical relationships, in 1943, when Barchi was organized in Sicily, the United States relied on the mafia, on Cosa Nostra, on the Italian-American mafia. they relied on them for a number of reasons, among other things because the head of the, um, of US espionage in Europe at the time during the Second World War, called the OSS, which is the progenitor of the CIA, a certain Allen Alles who was an avowed Nazi among other things, and well, he was a New York lawyer and he was Laki Luciano's lawyer, that is, the lawyer of the mafiosi as well, in addition to being an avowed Nazi and the head of the American secret services in Europe during the Second World War, and so he took advantage of these ties he had with the mafia, with the Cosa Nostra in the United States, to build a bridge with the Cosa Nostra in Sicily to facilitate the landing. But this was only the idea for the landing, let's say. But within this large operation, he was actually carrying out an even larger operation, that is, he identified Italy as the key country for American foreign policy, and he identified the Italian mafia, at the time it was only Cosa Nostra, but then it also expanded to include the Nrangheta and the Camorra and then the other various criminal organizations. he identified that the fascist regime had not yet existed when they were organizing the expulsion of Mussolini had not yet taken place, therefore the fascist regime still exists. Then later there was no longer a fascist regime, but anyway the fascists were there, there was the Republic of Sal and so on. As a partnership, all these entities signed a contract called the Italy Project: the Italian state, the fascists, the mafiosi, and the United States of America.

[00:19:24]Well, the man indicated by the fascists to follow this negotiation, to create this contract, to create this sort of underground organization was comrade Licio Gelli who at the time was an officer, then he would become an officer of the Republic of Salò and when - a few months later - again Allendalles, therefore again the head of the US secret services decided to start a negotiation with the Nazis, therefore with the third Rich, for the great escape of the gods [clears throat] precisely of the leaders of the third Richik, of all the war criminals and so on. Two and a half million fled Europe after 1945. When this happened, there was a negotiation, an organization that went on for two years. Hmm. And Dalles said, "Look, because even Mussolini says, but I also want to participate in this organization." Very good. And then Dalles says I got along very well with that officer who had become officer Repuria Salò who is very efficient, he was a wonderful person from my point of view with whom I get along wonderfully send me him and it was precisely Liso Gelly.

[00:20:45]And G found himself in close contact with the head of the American secret services in Europe for these 2 years, that is, they saw each other every day, they were always together, they became great friends, they are very close and after the war Allen Alles was the man who founded the CIA and he was also the man who became the longest-serving and most powerful director of the CIA.

[00:21:13]So this is like when someone has a student, I know, no, who was predestined, come on, let's say he is predestined and he takes him with him everywhere.

[00:21:22]But when I met Jelly, he says, because I was the last person to interview Gelly in life, Gielly told me, he says, I participated in the front row at all the inaugurations of American presidents starting from Truman all the way up to Obama, that is, all the presidents of the United States who were inaugurated and then held the ceremony, there was Gelly near them because Gell Because we don't count for anything, we don't count for anything at an international level, but some of us count much more than others, it's crazy.

[00:21:50]Exactly. Exactly.

[00:21:52]So, what do you think of Mussolini's general? We're talking about Cesare Mori who tried to fight the mafia. Do you remember it? Yes, I remember it very well. And then Mussolini decided to wage war on the mafia and sent this General Mori who was a very tough, uncompromising person. He was actually waging a real war, that is, he besieged some towns with his troops, that is, there was a siege, a sort of medieval siege of some towns to, eh, to defeat the mafia and the problem is that it's a bit like a war against Freemasonry, no, which Mussolini added declared war on Freemasonry. The problem is that at a certain point Mussolini realized that he needed the Mafia to control Sicily and so Moria went on for a few years from 25 to 29 I think, I don't want to be wrong, and at a certain point you hear, you are a great hero, they celebrated him, etc. etc., but they moved him from there because they need the Mafiosi, they needed the Mafiosi and the Freemasons. And so, let's say, the war on the Mafia, the war on Freemasonry went completely into the background.

[00:23:04]But Mori waged a real war against the mafia. Well, but getting back to us, the problem is that Falcone had discovered all this, that is, what I told you today, Falcone had discovered it and he couldn't survive. Falcone had brought to Rome the dossier on Gladio, which at the time was unknown to everyone.

[00:23:25]Nobody knew about the existence of Gladio, except the people who were in charge of knowing about the existence of Gladio and the main base of Gladio at that time was in Sicily and it was in Trapani and therefore it was linked, that's where the gladiators were trained, that's where everything happened. Furthermore, the motorway, the A29, that is, the motorway where the Capaci massacre took place and precisely the motorway that goes from Palermo to Trapani and the and and therefore Falcone had discovered this and Borsellino had found out about this thing, therefore one and the other had to be eliminated and there was no way.

[00:24:06]Always to make it clear that this thing was a state massacre and not a mafia massacre. So, he was indicted and ended up in jail, he got a life sentence abruptly, not only for dissolving a child in acid, a series of other little things, let's say, that this kind man did, but also because officially he is the one who pushed the button to detonate the bomb in Capaci. Well, nothing could be further from the truth, so much so that the mafiosi themselves, during a trial, a mafiosi said, "Do you really believe that Brusca pushed that damn button?" The one who pushed the button was always a new character, this Pietro Rampulla, who is the one who actually blew up Falcone. Why was it him? Because it is a delicate military operation. I mean you have cars going at 130, 140, 150 miles an hour, you have an explosion and it's like, I don't know, it's like you have to shoot someone who's running, right? However big the explosion, you have to make sure those people die, so you have to, since you do n't just push the button, the explosion happens automatically, that is, the transit time the cars activated, in short, it's a device, in short, when the car passed there was a wire, something that is inevitable, but second, that is, the ingenuity in addition to placing the bombs, in my opinion something made the communication a radio signal, that is, yes, but it's a military operation so they couldn't entrust it to a mafioso who has never done this, has never committed a massacre in his life. This is also why the Chiaie were the ones who were coordinated, because the Chiaie of massacres like the one in Bologna or other massacres knew about them and how could they not. So they entrusted a person who was militarily trained with the, let 's say, operation of being able to blow up Falcone. That is, this massacre is in all respects a state massacre where the fascists played an even more important role than the mafiosi. So much so that investigating the Bologna massacre, the Bologna massacre that occurred 12 years earlier, in 1980, investigating the Bologna massacre, the magistrates of Bologna were born to end up in Capaci because the two massacres are linked to them and the recent investigations into the Capaci massacre lead to a massacre in Bologna. The Bologna massacres were officially neo-fascist, while the Capaci massacres were officially mafia-style, but they were the same people who did the same things, so, well, the attacks in South America were the same by chance. Think about it.

[00:27:03][laughter] No, but look, I'm telling you, you know, they probably copied each other, you know, yes they were inspired, but the little hand, the signature always seems the same, eh. Moreover, eh the ehm there is another there is another detail that is important because part of this explosive that came from Croatia, which had been produced in Czechoslovakia and so on, eh in reality had been used a few years earlier, exactly eh 8 years earlier, 1984, December 23, 1984 to blow up the Rapido 904, 16 deaths.

[00:27:48]Here you are. Oh, and that was also accused of being a mafia massacre, but the mafia has never planted bombs in its life, after all. Well, as you can see, telling the story of the massacre of the capable is a little different from the official narrative that has been made into films, that has been told to us in newspapers, and in books of all kinds.

[00:28:08]It's something a little different and it ends up connecting things that apparently have nothing to do with it.

[00:28:14]the Bologna massacre with that of Capaci, the massacre of the Italico Rapido 904 with that of Capaci, the murder of Persanti Mattarella and in some ways also the Moro kidnapping, that is, if you go deeper you arrive in a world where, in a very fluid world in which, in the end, it is complicated, it is complicated, to disentangle who are the main people responsible for one event rather than another.

[00:28:48]Because when you go to a a let's say to probe the world that goes from, let's say, from the 60s to the 90s, that is, the world of massacres, but we also saw it with the White Band One, with the Moby Prince and so on, that is, when you put your hands in there suddenly you don't find what you expect to find, you find it as if there as if I always think of the journey to the center of the earth when you say no in the thing you do these entr they entered a cave and emerge in a world full of dinosaurs and strange things. Now, when you enter this world here it's exactly the same thing. You think you're going into a cave, but deeper and deeper, and instead you discover that he's still alive. Riccio Gelly is still there, calmly astride the T-Rex, saying "Hi Fioi, hi guys."

[00:29:37]So, I'll tell you something, Franco, we 've already talked about it because obviously all the topics we're discussing are interconnected and connected, but my idea, I was talking to my friend the other day, is that in those years they affected one or two people from each social class, so magistrates, politicians, bankers or bankers, lawyers, journalists, musicians. and also trade unionists, workers, artists, trade unionists, workers, that is, ordinary people, do you understand? In the end they affected them all because it's called a coup, probably global, but not by chance in those years there, South America, Italy, there were various movements and then it came to something new and worse for all of us.

[00:30:28]Craxis knew many things, but they spared him.

[00:30:33]Not just him, there were many of us who knew many things, unfortunately.

[00:30:40]or luckily someone there some of them said these things I didn't have time to say them and others didn't, but yes and and the war was it wasn't the war and that is officially there was a sort of war of the fascists against the communists, there is the urban war, but this one here was it was let's say the surface. The war was the war against us, against the people. It was there was a system that governed in an undemocratic way, because when you establish that certain parties cannot be in government, whether right or wrong, that is, whether you like those parties or not, for me it is not a democratic thing, that is, you go to vote, but anyway the others are always in government by decree and if you try to subvert these things they will kill you, right? And so you mean you have a country that doesn't live in democracy, you live in an apparent democracy and eh and let's say eh this apparent democracy is then literally forced to follow rules. So not only is it decided that those who cannot go to government, but those who go to government cannot do as they please. So if whoever goes to government is a little too friendly with the Arabs and the Palestinians, he gets eliminated. If whoever goes to government doesn't say, Mr. United States, every time, he'll be eliminated. Whoever goes to government does not decide to privatize the entire country, as has happened, that is, to sell off the country to some entity, often supranational, literally sell it off and get kicked out. That is, our country was not only blocked from the democratic point of view, but even the forces that remained could not decide as they pleased. That is, they could have decided the peaks, so the monarchy would have been better, you're telling me Franco. [laughter] But no, but it would have been because at this point it would have been the same thing and the point is that it was the fake democracy where they don't kill you, but let's say they or maybe they even kill you, but in short they eliminate you socially. There are other ways to do it because technology allows you to, let's say, sideline society and take yourself out in so many other ways.

[00:33:19]At the time it was like that, that is, at the time it was a war, but the war was not in the streets, for those who demonstrated, the war was on the part of those who did not accept that reality and there were many millions of people who did not accept it and of those who instead imposed that reality with bombs, with coups d'état, with assassinations, with kidnappings and so on and so forth and so forth.

[00:33:46]But in your opinion, do the relatives, I'll name a few names at random, of Dall Chiesa, Craxi, or Mattarella, know these dynamics or are they sure that they know them and have agreed to disclose them, that is, they are not secrets, that is, I imagine if my brother had not been murdered, even if I didn't want to find out, the lawyer from Deali or the one who deals with that guy on that street would come to me.

[00:34:15]of that assassination or the magistrate or even simply my press officer, if I am the President of the Republic and tell me look, they discovered this A B C D Fg, that is, it's the least we can do. Of course they know.

[00:34:29]Craxi knows it, Mattarella knows it, what the hell the president's first name is doesn't come to mind. Um he knows it from the church. Brother Rita dalla Chiesa doesn't think like Rita dalla Chiesa, she has a different mind and reasons in a totally different way about these things. So and the brother is very well informed, he fights everything that happens, so it's not certain that they know them. So either they accept them out of fear or they accept them out of indifference, or they accept them because it's in their best interests in the end, that is, it's in their best interests because they're living well, they're in the system, they say, "Well, my father, my brother, who the hell is he, he's dead and I—hey, I'm still alive. Long live! I'm alive and I'm living well thanks also to the fact that I'm keeping quiet, not that I don't create problems, in fact that I'm joining the chorus of those who say there's no need to create problems, or am I wrong? Actually, or am I wrong? Anthony, I didn't hear the beginning of the No, I'll comment on it. Money makes everyone deaf and blind.

[00:35:50]Another hypertext. I remember, for example, after September 11th, one of the victims' fathers bought a page in the New York newspaper and spent a fortune. I think he practically spent all his assets, why not let him do it, but he managed.

[00:36:07]And then you find out that many other families instead remained silent. Yes, in September the State, that is, the United States of America, the federal State gave money to all the family members.

[00:36:23]Not everyone accepted that money.

[00:36:24]Consiglia, there are 3,000 deaths, so we 're talking about tens of thousands of relatives. I mean, imagine how many relatives 3,000 people could have had. Um, not everyone accepted them. There are—well, not even a few—those who didn't accept, I mean, hundreds, hundreds of people, if not even a few thousand people, who didn't accept them because they said, "No, I don't want it, I don't accept." Because they took the money and then they had to—it was a sort of—they had to sign a confidentiality agreement, I mean, you don't bother me anymore, right? If there are things at stake, you keep quiet, even if you think differently. And many accepted that money, but many did n't accept it. Even you, have you ever seen one, Franco, have you ever witnessed, have you ever seen one of these contracts they send you?

[00:37:18]Uh, because it's certain that there is something in there anyway, you sign something in which there's an NDA in which you promise to never say anything about this matter again. So, September 11th, yes, I saw it because when I did the investigation into September 11th together with Giovetto Chiesa, I went and spent a lot of time in the United States. I traveled a lot and met many of the relatives of the September 11th victims, who, you know, were the ones who hadn't accepted the money and hadn't given up, and some of them showed me these things. He said, "Look, they told me I have to sign this thing here, I did n't sign it and I didn't take the money." And so I fought. But they were tough people, you know, people who accused, I mean, it wasn't a simple thing. In those United States where there was a law, the Patriot Act, which basically took away any kind of freedom, they could arrest you for, you know, a year without telling you why you were arrested, why you had been arrested, and they could put you in jail for a week without a lawyer. Hmm. So imagine in a country, this was the United States in 2001-2002. 2003, so you can imagine these people who accused, because some of them accused the President of the United States of America of the massacre. So it's not, I mean it's not like they were so slow in doing something like that, so they were really tough people, right? You know, Bush can't even tie his shoelaces and he 's really responsible. No, I'm telling you what I honorably say because his dad, his dad was a bit more Machiavellian, to make a separate episode, but I'm telling you what they, these family members, did, I mean there were, um, some reasons in the United States, unfortunately, trials aren't that in Italy there's an obligation to hold a trial, in Italy no, sorry, but in the United States no. I mean, in the United States it's the judge who decides whether to bring the prosecutor first and the judge after whether to go to trial or not. And both the prosecutors and the judges depend on the Ministry of Justice, so I'm depending on politics. So their superior was the minister, at the time his name was John Ashcroft who was a of those who, let's say, were part of the 9/11 gang. And all these complaints were filed, they had to open investigations following these complaints, but they all buried them and none of these complaints went to trial, but in the meantime they filed the complaints, I mean, they were really tough people. I don't know if it works the same way in Italy. I have no idea, frankly I have no idea, but I can assure you that our President of the Republic is aware of all the official information and what I told you today are official things of all the official information regarding the investigations into his brother which were reopened a few years ago, I mean they were closed, they were reopened a few years ago after these things were discovered because it was discovered that, damn, more than a few people had been killed by the mafia because whoever the hell had done something was killed by the Italian state and he was killed by a fascist, not by a mafioso, I mean it changes the whole scenario.

[00:40:40]But I think that Even Epstein, obviously I don't want to make any connections, but keep someone in mind, as they say, as they say for the so-called, Franco, because those names that came out, well, they came out, but those that didn't come out are more curious. Someone is a list of thousands of names, so not [laughter] if he's still alive or if he's dead, who for him, because in the end it's not so much him who's keeping them, it's the Mossad, that is, the Israeli services because Epsin is and the Epsen affair is all Mossad, so whether he 's still alive or much more likely the Mossad, whether Epsin is still alive or dead, it's certain that an infinite number of people are being blackmailed, but it's a never-ending list.

[00:41:34]I'm reading some comments.

[00:41:36]Let's go back a bit to Capaci, to Italy and to those years. There, then do with the purse strings. It's very clear what they were doing and what they had understood. Then there are other names to include, a certain Mangano and a certain Berlusconi, who was establishing himself 100% in Italian power.

[00:41:59]Exactly. So, Berlusconi was simply a product of the massacres, or rather, let's say, now I'm simplifying a lot, in reality Berlusconi himself was accused and charged by the public prosecutors and they opened an investigation into him and therefore it's an official thing of being the instigator of the Florence massacres and certainly of the Florence massacre, Via Georgofili, I think five people died, no. Well, but Berlusconi is the product of that thing there, because Berlusconi is—he is the product of this underworld of the secret services. I have done many investigations on Berlusconi, including two films, one film in particular called Berlusconi in Genesis, which is the story of how Berlusconi became powerful and made money. And he didn't become powerful, he made money through his channels, not by singing on cruise ships, immo, no, absolutely not. He became powerful, he He made his money through a series of channels that came from his family, that is, his father, his father was the banker of the mafia, so basically it's through, let's say, someone who saw Berlusconi as the right person. And Berlusconi in the 1970s, early 1970s, was an arms dealer, that is, he sold weapons to Libya, he sold to Gaddafi on behalf of our secret services, not as a private entrepreneur, on behalf of our secret services and as a secret service agent and also a member of the P2 lodge, Ricio Gelli himself confirmed this to me, the words of Ricio Gelly, so more than him I think that basically he confirmed to me that Berlusconi was not only a member of P2 but had been a member for much longer, from what was shown in that sort of note about that thing they found and that Berlusconi always tried to water it down or say it was a one- off, something important, but it was because the bricklayer Gelly told me Berlusconi was obsessed with Freemasonry, He was really fiss, he was also grand master, he had created his own lodge, the lodge of the Grand Dragon of which he was grand master and he had entered the orbit of the Gellys not in '78, he had entered the orbit of the Gellis in '70, in '72, that is, he was already inside that world there and er and Berlusconi precisely and P2 mason, that type of freemasonry there, not so much freemasonry, but that type of freemasonry, the secret services and the mafia, well, it's exactly the world of Italy Project, Mangano. He was a mafioso, he was a mafia boss that Berlusconi brought home, that is, in Arcore Mangano was officially a stableman, in short let's not say that he was [laughter] he stroked the horses, but basically Mangano was the guarantor on behalf of the agreement that existed between Berlusconi and someone else. Exactly. Indeed, of the horses of Utri who was Berlusconi's man, the personal bond, let's say, of the bond between Berlusconi and the Mafia was and Mangano was the one who guaranteed, having the mafia boss in the house, Berlusconi had to, let's say, abide by some rules. He had participated in meetings with bosses like Bontate, as bosses, the real mafia bosses that Berlusconi frequented. So, and Berlusconi belonged exactly to that world. So at a certain point what happened? It happened at a certain point in the '70s, Berlusconi himself was told, it's not him that at a certain point he had a vague business idea, the secret services went to Berlusconi telling them this is Finvest. Fininvest was created by our secret services, it was n't created by Berlusconi. Okay?

[00:45:55]I mean, those who founded Finvest are our secret services. The services went to Berlusconi telling them this company is Fininvest, your company, and with this company you will have to open some television stations, that is, you will have to create the television hub.

[00:46:09]Berlusconi didn't want it, that is, we interviewed his, his... close collaborators of the time and they told us clearly, but he didn't even think about it. He says, "But I don't understand anything about television, but why do I have to get into it? They forced him" and then he was told, "Now you're going into politics." Obviously he also entered politics to save his television networks, he had 4 billion in debt, sorry, 4,000 billion in debt, so they would have gone bankrupt, so it was inevitable.

[00:46:40]He needed that money, so he needed to cover the hole in his television networks, but therefore to have personal advantages, but he also entered politics because he was part of that project, that is, all the massacres starting with Falcone, Borsellino, everything that happened in those years, including the White Gang, including the other massacres in Milan, Florence, Rome, including Felice Maniero, the Magliana gang, everything that happened. His role for years was functional to Berlusconi's entry into politics, because Craxi and Berlusconi were in great agreement for a good part of their lives.

[00:47:18]Yes, actually, this Craxi says, okay, they were in such agreement that I don't know if I told this story because Then he told me about it several times, but I do n't know if I've ever told it to you. It's a personal story about my father. I do n't know if if you let me tell it, it'll help you understand a little. So, my father, you know, was, well, in the 70s, 80s, he was a great journalist, you know, even in the 90s, you know, he was, I don't know, one of those famous ones that everyone recognizes when they see him on television and so on. He had been the editor of Paese Sera, which was the great newspaper of the Italian left, you know. Well, one fine day Paese Sera found itself without any money. I mean, whoever had financed Paese Sera turned off the tap one night, the next morning he and all the journalists at Paese Sera went to the newspaper and found it closed.

[00:48:16]No one warned them, there was no more money, the newspaper was closed, the financiers were gone, nothing.

[00:48:24]So, something happened, the newspaper actually continued to be published because a very strange, wonderful phenomenon occurred, something that I don't know if it could happen today. Something like that, that is, thousands of citizens, thousands of Romans lined up, queuing in front of the newspaper's headquarters to bring some 5,000 lire, some 0,000, some 100,000, some 1,000 lire, things to donate spontaneously.

[00:48:50]No one had asked for anything spontaneously for days, for weeks they got these thousands of citizens queuing up to bring money to keep Pa Sera going because it's a truly great newspaper and, I don't know, the electricity company gave free electricity for 6 months. Roma and Lazio organized a derby to finance Paese Sera, that is, Alberto Sordi, who was a notorious tightwad, took out a lot of money, that is, this thing happened. So Paese Sera continues to live, but it continues to live without a financier, a bit like Bioblu today, right? Who is constantly asking, doesn't know how to get by. Hmm. So, at that point my father took the entire editorial staff, everyone including the ushers, everyone saying "Look, There's little money, let's do this, let's establish a salary that's the same for everyone." Mh, so it's the same for the usher and for the director, that is, my father. So let's make a salary the same for everyone, so no one earns more than the others and so on, but we all stay at work, so obviously the salary has to be low, it can't be a high salary because otherwise the newspaper won't come out.

[00:50:03]And even the evenings were changed. It was the first Italian tabloid newspaper, that is, a smaller format.

[00:50:09]Once upon a time, newspapers were gigantic sheets. My father invented this thing about the smaller tabloid, also to save on paper, and it came out and it was a newspaper that transformed itself even more into a battle newspaper, that is, the newspaper that denounced arms trafficking, corruption. It was the only newspaper that did this. At the time, Craxi was Prime Minister. When they used to be there, there were political platforms, right? Well, they don't happen anymore, and my father was very often invited to the political platforms that he posed. The questions to politicians and Craxi were obvious, but he asked everyone complicated questions. In short, especially when Craxi asked him a series of questions over and over again, until one day at a political platform, Craxi just snapped and said, "Ah, go tell these things to your grandfather. Look, I'm the Prime Minister, you're nobody." That is, he started threatening him, he threatened him on television, live on TV.

[00:51:07]And so it went, well, this episode happened. After a month or so, a lawyer showed up at the newspaper.

[00:51:18]This lawyer said, he asked to speak to the editor, that is, my father, because he wasn't there—it wasn't like there was an owner, it had become a journalists' cooperative in Italy, basically, it's a thing—and so he went to talk to my father and said, "Listen, I'm here on behalf of an entrepreneur who has a lot of money to invest and wants to invest in the country, who believes in this newspaper, eh, eh," and then he asked to meet the editorial board, He spoke to the newspaper's editorial board and said, "Well, we'll invest a lot of money, and your salaries will at least triple." So from an economic point of view, you will be very well off, we will invest in the newspaper, we will make a beautiful newspaper and so on, but there is only one condition that we ask: that the editor be fired and this was the only condition that this lawyer was asking.

[00:52:16]you have to fire the director.

[00:52:18]So, there were months of meetings after meetings inside the newspaper, journalists, drivers, photographers, ushers, this one, that one, the printers, because there were those who said yes, after all, I have to make a living too, I have a family, I need that money because, after all, you don't earn much here and those who said no because we have to resist and so on. consider that many famous journalists came from there. For example, Fulvio Grimaldi was a journalist for Paese Sera at the time and he was one of those hard and pure ones, that is, the ones who say "No, we must not give up etc. etc." No, and in the end, what did we still go to the vote on?

[00:53:05]But it seems like Fulvio Grimaldi, I feel really bad for a second.

[00:53:08]Yes, yes. Fulvio Grimaldi. Exactly.

[00:53:10]Fulvio Grimaldi was a very combative journalist. I fight a lot.

[00:53:14]Exactly. It was like that. I mean, imagine, we're talking about '80, '80 I think '85 this thing happened '84 '85 yes.

[00:53:24]And I was born in that year, think about you, Franco.

[00:53:27]Well, and so and so, well, in the end, we went to the vote and 54% of all the employees accepted this lawyer's proposal.

[00:53:45]46% no, accepted the proposal. So my father was immediately kicked out, that is, he lost his job the next day and eh in and at the same time that 46% left the newspaper including Grimaldi, that is, everyone left Paese Sera except that 56%.

[00:54:03]Then it simply happened that this lawyer disappeared from circulation, nobody invested money in the newspaper anymore and Paese Sera went bankrupt, that is, it closed, Paese Sera no longer existed.

[00:54:17]So who was this lawyer?

[00:54:19]This lawyer is a person called Cesare Previti, and at the time nobody knew who the hell he was. Then he was Cesare Predeviti, he was also the Minister of Defense in Italy, he was a senator for a long time and so on and he was one of the founders of Forza Italia, he was Franusconi's lawyer, that's it. and ended up in jail for corruption, [laughter] for having corrupted magistrates, let's forget it, in short. In any case, the fact remains that the lawyer was Cesare Previti, the entrepreneur who was supposed to invest was Silvio Berlusconi, and the one who had ordered this thing was Bettino Craxi.

[00:55:02]Well, since you talked about the connection between Crassi and Berlusconi, let's say, I told you this story to help you understand that in practice this connection worked and worked well. So, what happened? They're coming to get you. Thank you very much, Franco. That's all from the free world.

[00:55:30]This morning at 8:00 Pronova Press Review. Thanks again. Nice evening.

[00:55:35]Hi everyone.

[00:55:38]But what are you careful about, guys? We're on air. I know this very well, but it's not possible, that is, in 2022 it's not possible for a television station not to be able to connect to Brussels. Now, this is the thing that viewers should know. That is, it is no longer acceptable for growth to continue. Here it is. Sorry, sorry, we're late, guys.

[00:55:57]And sorry for the inconvenience. Let's move on with the newspaper.

[00:56:00]We have the situation in Syria because it is still a mystery, it has not been completely resolved on the alleged [ __ ], on the alleged escape that. Let's leave that aside.

[00:56:10]small mistake and let's talk about another topic instead. 40km run, less than 50 and no. Let's talk about another topic instead: the cooks in the voluntary aspects that have guaranteed Let's hear the service. I pas we watch the Corriere della Sega service, Movimento 5 Stelle Lega attention rises.

[00:56:35]Celata is towing a truly terrible scene. Celata you can also dedicate yourself to us. You have seen the extraordinary edition of Studio Aperto [music] directed by Emilio Fede running in the credits, to which we immediately give the line.

[00:56:48]Solon, look at those beautiful legs there if if now in the United States the president- elect Bin Leiden, Biden, excuse me, is getting vaccinated [music] the fencing sperm champion Spromonte.

[00:57:04]Um, an [ __ ]. No, no, it's not said. Come on, I can't.

[00:57:09]No, well, if they beep. Yeah.

[00:57:12][ __ ], okay.

[00:57:13]No, it's not nice.

[00:57:14]No, [ __ ] is not cute, [ __ ] [ __ ].

[00:57:20]Who also died because of Conad, but above all you ca n't have a full wife, a drunk mouth. First reaction shock shock because Rick, I can tell you something exactly, but I can tell you something exactly like this I saw a lot of Olympic pregnant in these 15 days, something that made you feel sick the demonstration a little bit is a reason for me to suffer [laughter] quausation that followed the first one. I'm moving around in the meantime because the public transport passes through here, you see?

[00:57:51]Around 11.40pm. At around 11.40pm, sorry, around 11.40pm, have a good rest of your evening. For this [music] we have devoted all our energies, the Minister of Health Speranza told the Chamber.

[00:58:06]Who? Minister of Health Shanni Bergamaschi is running for the pea [music] for the Pirellone. let the campaign start vagin campaign get up and make a and then with [music] [music]