True Orthodoxy is characterized by shared faith and spiritual communion rather than formal administrative unity, meaning that multiple True Orthodox jurisdictions can coexist while maintaining the same orthodox beliefs, and claims that only one specific communion represents true Orthodoxy are considered uninformed and potentially dangerous as they lead to sectarian mentality and division.
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Pre-Show for @johncdirks Channel: On False Claims of "Ecumenism" From Angry PeopleAdded:
Through the prayers of our holy fathers, Lord Jesus Christ, our God, have mercy on us and save us. Amen. Uh, good evening. For those new here, my name is Father Joseph Sweden. I've worked in Orthodox apologetics since 1998, and I'm the founder of NFTU for Orthodox and Ecumenical News since 2004.
We've been in the apologetic space on Facebook since 2016 and on YouTube since 2018.
And if you appreciate what we do here, please like and subscribe. Um, this is a pretty uncomfortable stream. And while I set up because I am trying my best to set up, people are live commenting of course on various things uh on my Twitter. So, I have to set this up here.
Uh this is not going to be this is not going to be a typical live uh Q&A session.
One second.
Um and so I am just putting up the links. Um and so that's uh what we're doing. at uh 10:30 Eastern we will be having uh we will be having the uh discussion with John Dirks on his channel uh which will be shared here um about um the case for true orthodoxy and what why world orthodoxy itself uh is uh untenable uh for anyone searching for the truth of orthodoxy. So that is uh we're going to be doing that in about two hours.
Unfortunately, I was given this topic and I say this with all the love and respect that I can muster unwillingly.
And I say it's unwillingly because of the fact that I have now dealt with at least three to four different corners all dealing with the same problem.
Um, and so let me see here. Moses Verdin says, "Educate me how is your true orthodox not um a sysmatic group." Uh we are not in a systematic group because we are not in sism from someone. Uh are you in communion with anyone in the 15 to 17 patriarchal jurisdictions? Uh I would like to just educate you slightly for a moment. Uh when the system began, uh eight of those patriarchal jurisdictions didn't exist. So they're made up. you're an accumulist. If you'd like to talk about it, we will be doing a stream uh after this at 10:30. Uh Moses, I am not going to engage that now because I have to deal with something internally with intraorth orthodoxy because this is getting chaotic, crazy, if you will, and kind of pointless. Father Antonio, good evening. Austrian Orthodoxy, hello.
Sunrise, hello. Um Rafael, welcome everyone. welcome in the chat. However, this topic uh is one that is kind of problematic to say the least. And I am going to just put this here. Hold on one second.
>> [clears throat] >> I was not planning on doing this stream uh today if I'm being honest, but it is because of the nonstop, absolutely non-stop and res relentless um attempts at people, including within our own Senate at this point, my own Senate at this point, to argue whether or not uh the claims of true orthodox humanism are valid. they are not. And so, um, again, my point is this, and I want to talk about this. I'll give some background for those who are like, "What on earth is going on, Father, what's going on is that for the past few weeks, um, certain people, uh, and I'm not going to name names yet, but I might as time goes on. uh have been very emphatic uh about the idea that for example um the communion of the GOC Kinos is the only true Orthodox communion. Um I can see why somebody in the GOC under Archbishop Kolinos could feel that way or in the Senate of uh the Roore under Metropolitan Agafo which is in communion with them. I understand why they can feel that way and I can also acknowledge that they're wrong. Um it does not they know that other true Orthodox exist. They may not some of them may actually see all of those that are not in that GOC communion as Orthodox and that is perfectly within their rights as Orthodox Christians to do. I think it's uninformed. Um I think it's unproductive.
Uh I think it is a dying mentality as I will try to demonstrate uh directly from this uh stream.
So that's what we're going to talk about today. And that's going to involve a little bit of history and it's going to involve some uncomfortable stuff. And if people are mad I I completely understand.
But I have this thing about honesty and that makes me really need to talk about this because when I'm getting stuff from multiple different angles and everyone's attacking and going back and forth and like first off that's stressful enough to me and that is actually I'm going to get to the problems that that has by itself. the problems that that will have cenotally, the problems that that will have for true Orthodoxy globally, because none of this is new. I can promise you all of this stuff is pretty old. The only thing that's changed is the people making the claims. The difference being the people that made the claims in previous generations were personally involved.
The people who are making claims like that now are simply paring what they were taught by previous leaders.
Unfortunately, those leaders were also wrong, but they were personally invested, so it was a little bit different.
Um, let me see here.
Okay, I'm, you know, the comments, you know, I see that they're going. I'm going to leave them. This is not a regular live stream. Uh, I will be on John Dirk's, uh, stream later on, and that will be a live call-in from what I understand. Father Ron, uh, what's his name?
Father Ron something. He's a there's a new Father Ron uh who is um getting popular among the World Orthodox. He may show up. If so, great.
It would be the first time we actually have a true Orthodox clergy and a World Orthodox clergy squaring off anywhere uh on video um in any recent memory in the history of the internet. I think there might be some videotaped stuff uh from the days of um Bishop Pavlo of Atoria. I think I could be wrong though. Um and let me see here. Uh you know uh well hello layman apologists. Hopefully uh I will get to we'll see if we can meet at a time next week. So that'll be cool to uh go on the layman apologist channel and talk about true orthodoxy. So looking forward to that. [snorts] Um, but we have to talk about this because, okay, I'm gonna wind back to the beginning, which is what we were kind of talking about where what happened was uh this past week, multiple different channels of different people were arguing that um over the question of whether one go communion was the GOC communion or whether multiple ones exist, how is that possible? How can there be one church if there are multiple jurisdictions? Um, Moses, I I see that you keep on saying things like when when you start saying stuff like, you know, you just jumped for what you didn't like. You don't understand who we are. You're talking garbage. And I will eventually time you out. Not because of the fact that um I'm against free speech. I'm perfectly a fan of it, but this isn't a live Q&A show, so I can't even address the chat. the chat would have to address you and I'm trying to make a point. So, uh, don't tell me what to do, Moses. That's how you get yourself banned for a few minutes. You see, I'm just going to put you in timeout because you decided to stay calm yourself. That's what happens if you think that you own the stream and I do.
So, don't do that. So the point is there are different groups um with different communions, different true orthodox factions for lack of a better word that have existed for decades. And what has happened over especially over the past decade and a half is that many have entered into communion with each other to restore some sense of normaly. Uh the process for everyone is not complete.
Some may believe it's complete.
that is stupid and ill-informed, but you can be free to believe it. I'm not saying it's not um a potential thing to to hold on to. And I'm going to say why I think it's stupid and uninformed um just by looking at the communions themselves. And what I mean by that is that when you look say for example, let's take um the communion of the GOC in 2014. back then you had um you had the uh GOC reuniting with the Senate of uh the Senate of Resistors, the Senate and Resistance. So that group joined and that because the Senate and Resistance was in communion with the Roore under Metropolitan Agango which is not the whole Roore, it's just part of it. Um the uh old calendar Bulgarian church and the old calendar Romanian church, they all went into a formal communion.
Sounds great.
So that is a good thing. And so you had a global communion that was three years after our global communion with my senate uh with the senate of archbishop uh anglovo of metropolitan anglovo of llona and the senate of um metropolitan serif and proov in Moscow. Okay. So that was a smaller communion that we had in 2011. They had their communion in 2014 and that actually makes up the majority, not the overwhelming majority because there's still quite a few other senates in, you know, Greece, Russia, etc. that are not necessarily in communion with others and some that are in communion with others like for example uh the ROA North America that broke away from Archbishop Andronic is in communion with the true Serbian church under Archbishop Akachic. And so there are differences between groups that have separated, but I'm going to go to the most the most visible one, which is the one that has been up all week where everyone has been like, "You all should join the GOC Clinical to the point where one member and he is a YouTuber who I've previously supported and I've always I considered him a nice fellow all of a sudden decides to attack um decides to attack debt to compromise who is we all know is a regular here and and tell him to the effect that it would be better if he went to the Georgian patriarchet. Well, the Georgian patriarchet is world orthodox and they're in communion with all the eumists. So, anyone saying that is operating in bad things. More importantly, and I will say this uh very clearly, you cannot make the claim and I realize that Metropolitan Demetrius did make the claim and I'm going to address that because I'm not him. Um but the point is you can't make the claim that uh one true Orthodox church alone and everyone in the communion alone is Orthodox.
That is a um once you start doing that that's the Gregory of Colorado game. And that ends effectively where only you are the orthodox. That's how it always ends.
Um, so doing that is dangerous and risky and I will demonstrate how that is risky because in that communion in 2021 or 2022, I can't remember Austrian Orthodoxies in the chat. Maybe he can.
um the Romanian True Orthodox Church over accusations of claims of Kiprianism, but also over the response to COVID on the part of the Greeks and it broke communion with the rest of them saying that their um their response to COVID was not sufficiently uh it was not sufficiently strict and so they wanted to deal with that. Um and they said basically we don't want communion until that's resolved. Okay, now to give you perspective because I need to give you guys perspective. True Orthodox and Greece number around anywhere between two and four million people. And I tend to think it's closer to the 4 million.
But Romanians also number between three and four million people, the true Orthodox Romanians. So you see once that communion was broken, Metropolitan Agapangle, God bless him, um, and many years to him, decided to actually set up parishes in Romania as though the Romanian True Orthodox were no longer Orthodox.
You cannot throw three to four million people out of the Holy Orthodox Church because they disagree with you on COVID.
You just can't. That's not how things work. And people who think that that is how things work are in fact reducing the church to such a sectarian mentality that you will eventually end up just like Gregory of Colorado who is condemned by the true Orthodox the world over. Uh let's see. Austrian Orthodoxy says yes we suffered communion after getting translation of 14 union documents in 2015 and then tried to get some transom charity but then Metropolitan Velocia statement stalled it and eventually he was deposed. Yeah.
And that that was in and of itself that I remember that it was chaotic and then that year he repented and he passed on and uh in communion with the Senate and that ended. So he started to be a bit problematic and then we said we're communion with the GOCK over the issue of Kipanism and partially a pastoral issue of COVID.
Exactly. That's what I just, you know, basically what I just said. But the whole point is for for Metropolitan Aapunal to turn around and then start putting parishes in Romania as though the Romanian True Orthodox cease to exist. Keep in mind this is again a church with roughly onethird the population of Romania.
That is insane thinking. That is the sort of thinking by the way that caused the frustrated parishioners of the ROA North America to break communion with Agafangal to begin with in case you didn't notice that there was a pattern.
Yeah, I know the camera is bugging up and I am not sure why that is. Maybe it's just sensing on my my frustration, but um so you can't throw out millions of Orthodox people from the Orthodox Church because they disagree with you being too weak on COVID.
Yeah. Um Austrian Orthodoxy is well about 15 to 20%. Well, I if the 3 to four uh if the 3 to four million number is correct, that's actually closer to 33%. because Romania, I believe now the population is 12 million or 13 million.
But either way, you're probably you're you're with the Romanians, so you're probably more right. One out of five is still a massive number of people. Um the point is you can't throw out millions of people from the church because they disagree with you on COVID.
You can't do that. So that's your first problem. But people will say, "Well, okay, fine. Here's this. We'll recognize the true Orthodox Romanians. we just won't recognize you.
And and that's fine. You could do that.
And I mean, I I think that that is kind of um kind of what uh you know, I think that uh kind of what people have taken the attitude to be has been, okay, we'll just not recognize your senate, your community. Cool. All right. Here's the problem with that. The problem with that is that as you continue on, if you think, and this is, you see, we weren't recognized. You can use whatever excuse you want. It's Metropolitan of Logi. Um, you know, not not the Romanian one, our Metropolitan of Logos of Milan. Uh, you know, insert secret ordination here, insert scandalous performance here. All of these things are dumb and when you get to them you have to relitigate everything. Nobody wants to talk about for example Metropolitan Vlogius of Milan because nobody wants to talk about Milan because nobody wants to talk about the actions of Archbishop Centius of Blessed Memory who gave us autonomy.
So nobody wants to talk about that. So they'd rather make up stuff or you know go for some dirt. And so the point is by doing that what you end up doing is you end up eroding your own memory. Now people ask because the 1985 trial comes up. People ask, "Well, Father Joseph, you have to take a side. I mean, if you know either you're saying that the Archives was right, or you're saying that the Senate that deposed him was right. Which is it? It can't be both."
It kind of can. And I'll explain.
In both cases, canonical procedure of how many bishops were supposed to be judges versus how many bishops were supposed to be witnesses was not followed. It was all just glombmed together. If anyone knows the Senate of the Oak uh the trial of St. John Chrysum, this is precisely why he argued it was unconical. He said you can't have judges who are accusers. That is precisely what happened in 1985. So guess what? On that basis alone, the 1985 trial was completely invalid. It does not matter whether Oxentius was right. It does not matter whether his accusers were right. The the trial itself was done incorrectly. And they have been paying for it ever since with repentance here and saying, "I'm sorry here, so on and so forth, instead of just invalidating the 85 trial because you don't want to do that because then that doesn't save the face."
And so the whole point is let me see here. Yeah. And so this is the point is that the mentality that was used back in 1985 and so on is not much more than a pale reflection of the mentality that's used now which is we are the only ones who are right. We have the buildings and we are right. Now the problem is since then there of course was the McCarian Senate where you have the main building at Kingo Street split in half between two Senates. So maybe people shouldn't be in the business of declaring everyone else not orthodox.
Like maybe that's not a good idea. Maybe stick with declaring the accuminists not orthodox. Maybe we should stick with that instead of sucking up to the accuminists. When I read people condemning true Orthodox, claiming to be true Orthodox, but then giving respect to the Moscow patriarchy, which I have seen many times, you should be embarrassed of yourselves. You should go to your priest, repent.
That's how you should be. Instead of being puffed up with pride and thinking you should be at the big boy table with the accuminis, you should be ashamed of yourself. You should repent. You should go on a fast. Ask your spiritual father to put you on a fast because you SHOULD BE ASHAMED. BUT NONE OF them are ashamed. The people accusing in this case are not ashamed. They drip with pride. This is the same mistake that I saw made years ago.
Um, and it's it never works out the same. It works out one of two ways. You grow up and you realize, hey, there's other Orthodox besides me and I may not like their opinion, but they're still in the church. Or you do the Gregory of Colorado route and you don't like anybody. Because the truth of the matter is all of these things started with personal vendettas, including Gregory of Colorado, because his personal vendetta was against Father Pontaman Metropolis in HTM. and he was jealous and thought that when he formed his own monastery that it was going to be way better than htm and it did look better than htm because he was an iconographer but there was no spirit there. Nobody really joined except for a few people who were kind of lost in the sauce like brother Nathaniel. Um the point is that um okay uh may God bless you in the name of the father son and holy spirit. The whole point is that his obsession at the time and anybody and I challenge any of you who talk to people who say, "Oh, I've known Saden for years and he's he's wrong on this." Any of you, am I wrong on this? Gregory of Colorado, when Father Ponan was alive, Gregory was obsessed. Gregory was obsessed with him.
That was his sole focus in life besides building a monastery was trying to take down Father Pona.
And so that became the obsession and over time becoming a bishop became the obsession and eventually father ponan is once he admitted his guilt etc was out of the picture. Gregory of Colorado's sole focus now was on the rest of true orthodoxy which hated him. They had replaced father ponttoan in his mind.
And so that is the world that you can choose to live in. And that is the world that I think our enemies choose to live in. Now, people are going to say, "Wait a second. Wait a second. Didn't Metropolitan Demetrius say that he recognizes the GOC clinical as, you know, the true church and that's the way we should all be?"
Um, sure. I would say that that's exactly what his position is. Now, let's try to put things in perspective. He is the metropolitan of the largest GOC community in America. And it is a Greek community. And it it is a large large community.
There is no motivating factor for him to deal with people who are outside of his communion. He has enough to deal with with all the people in his very large church.
I don't expect him to be like, well, Father Joseph of the former Milan senate. Why? Of course I recognize. I'VE STUDIED HIS. NO, HE HAS OTHER THINGS TO DO. LIKE WHY ARE NONE of you you're all assuming that people like Metropolitan Demetrius are like you guys on the internet who have the time to do the re that's not happening. Um let me see here the Orthodox Field who is saying that name names. Well the f the first and most obvious name uh is Sarah from Webster. Um you know he's he's put it on his channel now and they're they're having it out. Is this going on Discord?
I don't know. I'm not putting it on Discord, but that's where apparently so many people live. Um, yeah. And so, oh, let's see here. So, yeah, this is a kind of a kind of a bit of a a brewhaha battle, if you will. Um, and so a lot of them are just mad because we do things.
Um, unfortunately, here's the sad part.
The reason we can do things is because our bishops permit it. That is not as I understand the current permission status of the GOC with the internet. That is something that ROWAC did for a long time in the past also. So I'm not going to sit here and say whether that's right or wrong. I personally don't agree with it.
But I'm not going to judge people who are in obedience to it. Now if other people are mad because I'm doing things and I don't have to listen, I don't care. Uh, I'm going to keep doing things because my job is to keep talking about Jesus Christ and the Orthodox faith and I'm going to do that no matter how many people don't like it until I'm not breathing.
So, that's uh, you know, that's where I'm going with this. I realize I may be offending some people and I'm sorry if I am, but once again, if you follow these things to their logical conclusions and I brought up my own communion and how it's not recognized because here's some fun facts things in terms of things I can do that things other people can't.
Our entire the entire mission to the Philippines was originally my sentence.
We literally went there and baptized thousands of people who were received in by crisismatian from uh Roman Catholicism or Anglicanism or some other it was some other Protestant religion and it was literally thousands of people that my bishops went to the Philippines and baptized them and cruise them so on and so forth and then we said nothing. I said nothing for pretty much years when Metropolitan Afango's people convinced them that they weren't really Orthodox and they all needed to be rebaptized and a thousand of them even though I think we baptized like 3,000 got rebaptized but they LEFT THE MOSCOW PATRIARCHET PEOPLE ALONE. THEY DIDN'T EVEN meet them. And so the giant hypocrisy, the layers of hypocrisy that come when you're like, "Oh, I only selectively I only recognize this communion. It's all empty and some of it is destructive.
So thinking like that is destructive.
[snorts] And so let me see here.
Um I thought Samister was a friend of the show. So this the reason why his channel is no longer a LinkedIn NFT. The reason is ultimately because he kept on attacking uh debt to compromise who is a friend of the show. Um, and so yeah, I and I don't and ultimately it wasn't just attacking him. It was attacking his senate, saying we were a clown senate.
If that's your attitude, fine. I don't care. But if you're mad because we're doing things like baptizing the nations and stuff, you know, that missionary stuff that the church is supposed to be involved in and you want to crumb snatch it later. Look, you're welcome to it, but don't pretend you're doing the work.
Okay? Don't pretend you're doing the work. And it's not just I've got horror stories left and right. I've got a horror story in the Czech Republic where a whole parish got rebaptized that came from our senate and those were regular Greek baptism people. So the point is redoing everything. Uh reader Joshua says, "I have thoughts."
Oh boy. I don't know if I should open this up. I mean, there's I mean, we can I'll open it. And I haven't even gotten to I haven't even gotten to the real hard stuff, but you know what? Okay, if people want to jump on one second, I feel like I'm going to regret this, but uh hold on.
Any says, "To be fair, didn't DTC go off of Metropolitan Demetrius for quite a bit?" Uh, yeah, he did. And to be fair, if we're going to be fair, he went off and because of the interview where basically he denied that anyone else who wasn't part of the GOC was orthodox. And so, let me see here.
Ignatius says, "Hello, father. By the way, yeah, you can call in uh live if you want. Hello, father. I asked St. Sia Petersburg to help me lead to the true church. I start to look at Catholic orders and start to call me and then the Eastern vigor came upon me."
Um well I you know I would think that St. Seno of Petersburg would probably lead you to the to the Orthodox. Yeah I mean I would go back to the Greek monastery then. Um let me see here. Uh Orthodox John 1 says which true Orthodox senates do you consider actually sismatic father? Uh the only ones that I actually consider systematic are Gregory of Colorado's um because of the uh his universal condemnation by the rest of the True Orthodox uh and people who don't actually um don't have the retained apostolic succession. Um because there have been occasional episcopal mistakes uh all around where people uh tried to claim uh that they had succession when in fact what ended up happening was that the senates would pull that uh would pull those orders uh because they were not considered to be canonical. There was usually fraud involved. So there are um you know things like that. Um let me see here. um and other and other groups that clearly are not part of true orthodoxy. So when you say like um you know which true orthodox sin is do you actually consider sysmatic? I consider any that are properly constituted and retaining the orthodox faith not systematic but you know there's actual fraudsters there and it I sometimes feel like people gravitate towards them and I don't know why. Um, I know that there's some group in America, um, which unfortunately, like I don't understand how anyone could join them when they're clearly inviting sodomy into the ranks of their hierarchy. Um, and it's not even like it's a great secret. So, but then people ARE LIKE, "OH, THAT'S THE one I need to go to." Why? Why?
Uh, let me see here. Solid rock seeker says, "Do you see a unity happening with all the true Orthodox?" There is a unity happening with all the true Orthodox because they all share the same faith.
This is what people don't understand.
Administrative breaks in communion are not the determinant of the true faith. M maintenance and preservation of the true faith is the determinant for the true faith. I I cannot I don't understand why this is so hard for people to understand.
There is a spiritual necessity of communion with those uh who share the faith with you, but it does not have to be as formalized as people coming from world orthodoxy are demanding. And I feel like what's happening is people are discovering true orthodoxy from world orthodoxy. And they want it to be just as organized and fluffed up as world orthodoxy was. What you don't understand is that so much of what's in world orthodoxy is fakery. Uh hold. Welcome, Reader John.
>> Father Bless.
>> Uh, I can't hear you.
>> Father Bless.
>> Um, hold on. Can Can other people hear Reader John?
>> If other people can, it's my my problem then.
>> Father, >> one second.
Uh, okay. Hold on. I'm waiting for somebody to Can somebody tell me if they can hear Read or John? Cuz if they can't, it's my Okay, we can hear them.
Okay, then it's my problem. One second.
Hold on.
>> Oh no, not again.
>> Okay, I can hear you now. It's my problem.
>> Okay, father, you really really got to work on this. [laughter] That's what happened yesterday.
>> Yeah. Well, that I got confused because of the double stream thing. And so I ended up realizing I had it uh unmuted.
Uh I had this muted. So >> Oh, speaking of that stream, >> speaking of that stream, I'm so poed about that. I was on backstage forever trying to get on there.
>> Oh, really? Oh, wow.
>> Yes. I was one of the guys that didn't have my camera on and they're like, "Nope." I was like, "Yeah."
[snorts] >> Um, Father Methodius says, "Often I speak and I'm not heard. I understand that." Oh, he said, "Father bless. May God bless you in the polishing spirit."
Um, yeah. Okay. So, you had you mentioned you had thoughts.
>> Yes, I do have thoughts. Um, I'm I'm trying not to speak out of turn because I'm just a lowly reader.
>> I understand completely.
>> But that being said, a particular senate, I think we all know who we're talking about at this point.
um just seems like they're like you said kind of going that uh route that doesn't really foster unity or my greater concern is evangelization.
It seems like there's a controlled message through a controlled channel through a controlled personality and we get into what I callism or elderism and uh I I assume you're um familiar with hawkna since you were part of it.
>> Yep.
>> This feels like Hawkna 2.0. I'm not going to lie.
I'm I'm [sighs] you see uh the thing is I I keep I keep dis my private discussions that people have with me private but I do get a lot of people who often call me up and they're like I need to talk to you about something or I call someone up and they want to talk to me about something.
>> Oh, nobody talks to me about anything.
This is just me.
>> Yeah. You know, but in any case, it's not the fir, believe it or not, it's not the first time I've heard this. Um and my I don't know what to say to that. My personal view is I think that sometimes it could be seen um in a negative light.
Uh I think half of the problem would just be solved if people were free to talk uh were free to publicly speak on the internet. I think people people feel very controlled when that sort of thing happens and it's really a minor thing.
Um and I I don't I think that that would solve like 80% of the problem. Well, this is just me like a 10,000 mile view.
I don't get to talk to all the people you get to talk to. This is just me observing from a distance.
>> Yeah.
>> And for what I've observed from a distance for at least the past oh, I'd say about three Yeah. three or four years >> is like um for instance I love hearing from father Steven Allen but I haven't rarely heard much from him since the orthodox survival course that I used to follow religiously.
>> Yeah.
>> And um I love Father Methodius but apparently he's not hold on either now.
And there's a couple other personalities that >> uh they were edifying. They reached out and touched people's hearts with the words of the Holy Father and I don't hear them anymore. I'm just wondering why. And I I mean they don't have to explain why. That's not my business. But I'm just saying this is me looking from like a very far distance away just noticing patterns.
So >> Well, I'm gonna I I see that people are kind of like confused about this. I'm not we're not advocating for free speech. Uh what but what we are what I'm saying is that you know if this is >> not a political talk. Yeah.
>> Yeah. If [snorts] priests have the right to speak and that's that's really where that restriction is. And I'm not going to get in if you don't know about it.
You don't need to know.
>> Well, it's not necessarily freedom of speech. It's a freedom of conscience.
>> Yeah. And if a priest can't speak, then there's a problem.
>> Yes.
>> Um the Orthodox field says, "Father Steven uploads talks on his Substack."
Well, that's technically not YouTube.
That's Substack. So that's different.
>> Yeah.
>> But um the whole point is if everything has to be monitored that it's this is again for me this is nothing new. I saw this with ROAC during the Laurierite controversies of 2005 2004 our the for lack of a better word the good priests weren't even allowed to speak and the bad priests didn't care. So that's what often happens when you try when I guess when the bishops try to keep things from getting too out there and they want to keep they don't realize that that has an effect.
>> No, I mean I I understand from a bishop's perspective where they have to um reel some personalities in. I've seen I've seen that in World Orthodoxy obviously and uh apparently they don't do it in World Orthodoxy, but I see this the pendulum swing way too far on the other side when within parts of true orthodoxy. You see what I'm saying?
>> Yeah. And it seems like we fall into a papal like a first without equals kind of mentality on some some bishops. I mean I understand you need you do need a blessing to do certain things.
>> Yeah.
>> But there there is an um >> okay I will say this debt to compromise.
Um I know that you kind of you were kind of in the middle of this. You said Matthews don't get to infiltrate the GOC to depose the artism. Okay. That's not actually what happened. It was a team up of people on both sides of the Kalistoism. So I don't I'm blaming the Matthewites is contraositive because there were actually many Matthewites who even thought that the trial of Archbishop was unconical. So I I don't I don't think that that's productive to just start pointing fingers. And for again, I don't know if you've met any I don't know that he's met any Matthewites, but if you had, you'd realize they're good Orthodox Christians, too.
>> Yeah, of course.
>> So, um >> Well, and I'm for Orthodox unity, but not at the cost of >> not at the cost.
>> Not at the cost of subjecting others to one particular jurisdiction.
>> Yeah. And so, uh let's see here. I understand that compromise. It's fine.
Uh Ignatius of Pas. Yeah. The Greek monastery is world orthodox, but I really loved it. not going to advise anyone to go to a world orthodox monastery. I'm sorry. Um, says Oentius was a former Matthew. That is correct. That is true.
>> Um, okay. So, now that that's there, um, all right. So, I I mean I can get uh Orthodox Field says, "Who is Reader John talking about?" Well, Father, he did mention uh Father Methodius. I don't know the details of that.
>> Oh, I don't know anything about anybody.
I'm just This is me.
>> Like his channel has kind of disappeared.
>> Yeah, I'm just noticing patterns. Like Father Steven Allen used to be more on YouTube and stuff. Now he's kind of on Substack and I don't know if he publishes like he used to. I don't I can't be everywhere.
>> So I don't I mean >> Substack's kind of niche to be honest.
>> Some some people have intimated that that is because of a policy in the GOC.
Okay.
>> Um, and I am not going to confirm or deny that uh because that is their issue. But I will I will say that if that is the case, it is the same policy that ROWAC had uh over a decade ago. And that back then it was a disastrous policy in my opinion. Um, and so yeah, I the Orthodox field says, "Father Steven publishes on Substack." I understand that you mentioned Oh, yeah. Yeah. I knew I knew. Yeah, I knew about Substack is not Substack is not YouTube.
>> It's niche. It's very niche. Yeah, it is not if if you're not a big fan of like reading long form articles, etc., you probably never go to Substack.
>> Yeah.
>> Um Well, okay. You see, he's not being muted. You're uploading his stuff with his blessing, but I don't think he can upload his own stuff is my point.
>> Um >> I don't know.
>> Yeah, I I don't know. But that's what I've heard things that to that effect.
>> No, this is just me outside looking in.
I'm not trying to cast suspersions or judge anyone. I just I'm just noticing patterns and it's it's to me coming from where I did that's kind of a disturbing pattern.
>> All all I'm going to say is this. I'm going to say that people have told me that they need to get a blessing or they don't want to get a blessing or they can't get a blessing to publish that are in the GOC. That is all I'm saying. I am not naming names, but I'm also not going to pretend that things are different. So I understand if you are saying that father Steven is just really busy and you're doing the work for him. That's fine. I am not Thank you for the cont.
>> Thank you for that. That was my example.
Thank you for the context. I appreciate it.
>> So >> I I I think that I think these guys this upper leadership just is fearful of uh suffering for Christ. I mean, I don't know if uh if your people under you are being bold and even maybe putting people at risk because of their stand for Jesus Christ and carrying his cross, that's one thing. If they're off base, that's one thing. But if your leadership is too afraid uh to suffer uh a godly position, that's a problem.
>> Yeah. Well, okay. Uh Estradia Sargenti says, "Is the cafe down?" Yes, the cafe is down. Uh we were subject to a bot attack over the past couple of days. Uh hundreds of bots have swarmed uh the cafe. It became too difficult to manage.
Uh it is down temporarily. I will work to get that back up soon. Um so God willing that'll be soon enough. But uh no, we never give up. It's just occasionally they come at us with too many weapons and we're not we're not armed every day for every attack. Um, so once again, I am not and I'm gonna I'm gonna re repeat this for the Orthodox field to make it absolutely clear. Um, I am not referring to Father Steven. I am referring to people who have told me they cannot get a blessing to post on YouTube.
I'm I'm making that clear.
Okay? So, I'm not going to name them because that is not my job.
Um, so in any case, but the reason I am bringing it up is because I do have a blessing to put up what I want and I do have a blessing to put up videos on YouTube. So, if people are mad that I'm putting up videos, but that their preferred priest is not putting up videos, then you need to complain to the proper person, which is to their bishops or to that clergy themselves. Maybe the clergyman doesn't want to put up anything on the internet. That is not my fault. Okay. So, uh let me see here.
Um, so now I did not get a chance to talk about um I didn't get a chance to talk about the uh I guess you could say the needs for the day. And now Father Bonafice, you you just joined um uh what were what's your thoughts on these matters like going on?
>> I I pray for boldness uh to say what needs to be said for the cause of Christ. um no matter what the cost. It's it's very it's not easy. Um and you know, you're going you're going to get threats or whatever. And um but I praise God for a hierarchy that is also willing to take a stand for Jesus Christ. Um and so um you you you have to do it. Your your savior commands us to do it. Um, and then he also also provides the graces to move forward and and hang in there. Uh, just be obedient and um, you know, and just f and and fulfill the calling that the Lord calls us to do. We're supposed to deny ourselves and take up the cross.
And these guys are are afraid. I think they're they're chickening out. And I I I think they're preparing people to cave in. I think I could Oh, go ahead, father. Go ahead.
>> Well, I was just going to read some comments, so go ahead. Uh, read those.
>> I was just going to say I think I can summarize my thoughts pretty easily. It So, it feels like NFTU's out among the unwashed masses.
Um, doing the Lord's work, at least trying to anyways. And from the true Orthodox perspective, it's the only one I see showing up on other channels. And that's um in my opinion shameful. I wish there was more. I wish it wasn't just me, Father Bonafice, and um Father Joseph out there. I wish uh there was more.
>> There is there there is >> there is. But I mean the reach is it could be more. You know what I mean?
>> I I understand. But I also, you know, I mean, I'm looking at this, you know, NFTU is um is like 22 years old. Um, and it's it took us 22 years to get where we were. We tried a bunch of different things, >> so on and so forth. There are new young people who are on YouTube and on Instagram.
>> Oh, yeah. Glory to God for that. Like we have gift to compromise, unseen warfare, and all that. Yeah. I'm not diminishing them. I'm just saying >> I'm I'm going to say that they're still learn trying to figure that out because I remember those early years of the and the internet was so different then um that it is it is going to take a while for any new generation people in any jurisdiction to fully gain their footing and deal with things that the way I do.
Like I didn't pop out of a vacuum. I' I've been here for a long long time.
Um, and so let me see here. Um, okay.
So, I'm not going to answer any location questions. That's what the maps are for.
>> But to be fair, most of these guys are layman. I mean, we we mean >> So, was I I understand that, but we need also a balance of authoritative voices as well.
>> Yeah. No, I agree with you.
I'll say this that u when I was uh living in Lakeland uh they had the first Friday event which um and um and so I would go out in my Orthodox Cassic and I had one guy say I've never seen an Orthodox priest out there evangelizing.
>> Yeah, it happens all the time. Yeah, they don't you don't see them. And on top of that with World Orthodox sometimes they don't even wear their cassettes so you wouldn't even know if they were there. Now, where does that fit in with the Apostle Paul at the uh at the Agora at U Mars Hill? You know, how does that fit in? Because the the example that he gives is right there. We I think it's a good idea to follow his example. Actually, the you the internet here is basically on the streets. It really is.
>> Um >> and so I find >> Yeah, go ahead.
>> It's a different It's a different approach, but yeah, on the streets versus social media. It's just learning how to uh put this on. Now, someone said we also have Toll House boys channel is true orthodox as well. I just discovered Toll House Boys literally two days ago um based on conversations I saw other people have. Uh I think they're worth a follow. I don't know who they're with, but they do ask the right questions. So, definitely >> glory to God for that. I mean, I'm not diminishing other people out there. It's just uh >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. Graham says, "I'm so lost. How many branches of true Orthodox exist? I literally didn't know that the true Orthodox church was near me was GOC. I thought true orthodox was just true orthodox. True Orthodox and Tio and Gio are just uh synonyms like one is true orthodox and the other one is genuine orthodox. They both come from the the Greek nios orthodox. Um and that is a reference to the first word being true or genu genuine. Um no regulated says there are dozens of jurisdictions in the US. There are not dozens of jurisdictions. Um throughout the world there might be two dozen jurisdictions tops. Um so no the idea that there's dozens of jurisdictions is stupid. Stop lying. Um says I don't think that Bishop Lazer accommodates visitors. That's why you should go to his website and call him uh or email him. Uh so you have to ask uh before making that assert.
>> I don't think he has a guest house if that's why you're getting it.
>> Yeah. But I know that he has had guests.
So I don't want to dis I'm not going to discourage anyone.
>> And so people who want to jump in with their own like takes like this happened to me earlier um before I was going to when I first announced I was going to do the stream that I'm doing in an hour. Uh there was a guy who was like there are no true Orthodox around. And I could tell already I could tell that this was a troll. And he starts on Twitter. He's like you and this other guy are the only true Orthodox I know. And I said I I don't think that that's uh true. And I think you're already arguing in bad faith because you've already I've already said there's millions of true Orthodox. You see pictures with hundreds of people and then you go, "Oh, you're the only true two true Orthodox I know.
You're already framing this in the way you want." So I responded to him and I said, "I don't have time for this.
Here's a map." And so he immediately writes back and he's like, "Ah, I don't know this map is trustworthy. Um because there is there are I just went to three churches and none of them exist." Well, this pissed me off. So, I I immediately recognized one in Tucson. So, I went to their website and I I put a link to their website because they have a pretty church. It's a small church. They don't have a regular priest right now because the priest died a few years ago. That's uh in Tucson. And uh I'm like, look here. I'm not going to waste my time with the other two, but out of three you just handed to me, one of them had a recognized website, a physical location, and a community. You are lying. And I just didn't want to deal with them anymore. So, uh, somebody asked, "Father Bonafice is coming through HD tonight.
New camera." Um, I don't know. Maybe >> am I am I stereo?
>> No. Are you a new You have a new camera.
>> Oh, I Well, maybe. Yes. I have my iPhone, so you know, I've been I was given it. So, little quality, I guess.
>> Thanks for the shout out. No problem.
I'm sorry.
>> It's all right.
>> It was a gift. It was a gift.
>> I forgive you, father.
>> We appreciate it. Hey, my mic's a gift.
So, [laughter] um, >> Father Methodius says, "True orthodoxy as a pmic is apologetics. True orthodoxy as a lifestyle is a satical lurgical sacramental." I'm putting that up even though it's free. Um, >> yes.
>> Father Mark Tempplay says, "Again, is there a question I can help with?" Uh, not to my knowledge. I mean, I'm talking about some stuff here. The whole true Orthodox humanism thing that has been um, you know, if you want to come on, you can. I have no problem with that.
>> You might need a blessing.
>> Well, yeah. I don't know what to say on that one. Um, but in any case, >> I was being physicious. I'm just saying you might need it. So, >> Oh, yeah. That that's true. That's funny. Um, in any case, uh, let me think here. Okay. Uh, so now that I've covered that, I'm going to cover my massive massive goal and I'm going to talk about it for a bit. Uh, I know that I think Father Bonafice knows a bit more about it than most people. Uh, reader John, I think I mentioned one or two things. So, what happened was this. Um, first off, I am going to put a ridiculously large goal because we are in a ridiculously weird situation. Um, to begin, as you all know, I had a pretty big debt on my vehicle repair. I've brought that down to about $400, but it's almost June, and that is when the interest jacks up to 10 and something%. In the midst of this, I'm basically my uh you know, my son's going through graduation, so we're preparing for that. That's fine. About three weeks ago, I ended up going to the doctor and because I have been having some gastrointestinal problems.
The doctor basically they did they decided to in the ER that they were going to uh give me an X-ray and a CAT scan. And uh so what they did was they did that and then uh PA came in and basically said after talking to radiology etc there is a good chance that you are you have stage three cancer and so uh particularly uh they said um colurectal cancer and so I was like >> wow >> yeah it was pretty bad and so for you know they they're like they really went all the way like the PA was like do you have someone you can talk to? Of course I have someone I can talk to. I have my wife. I mean, I'm like, so, you know, I'm like, uh, they're they're really laying it on like, you know, this, >> you know, an abbott in Florida.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah, that's true. Um, and so, uh, so that got me like, you know, they they scheduled the colonoscopy like four days later.
>> And so I was like, "All right." So, I went through all this stuff to get ready for the colonoscopy and um >> Oh, that's miserable.
>> Apparently, yeah, well, it was it was miserable. Like I I never that that one star. I don't want to do that again.
>> You're giving more stars on Kim.
>> Well, Zero [laughter] stars. You know, the whole point is so um what ends up happening is I go to the colonoscopy >> and um basically uh they do the colonoscopy and the next day there's nothing. So they thought there was a seven centimeter uh not seven millimeter uh lump. They were sure of it. They saw it but it was gone. And so for four days those four days I was literally thinking it, you know, how to how I was going to pass on. I was thinking what am I going to do? Because I still, you know, we still have a mortgage here and uh I still want to make sure that I take care of my family so forth. um is if I'm going to go. So, um what I did was uh I started looking at, you know, like end of life insurance that you can legally still get if you're, you know, so I started looking for that stuff. I got up to about halfway of the amount of insurance that I needed. Um so, that's something I need to cover. And I'm I I started coming up with a plan for when I just when it's it's done, when I'm over, when there's no more when there's no more Sweden to kick around anymore. No more Father Joseph Sweden to kick around anymore because there are I have grandchildren.
So, >> glory to God. Um but the whole point is that um I started to realize that you know people don't realize when the end is coming >> and so they they need to start and honestly that should be something everyone should be thinking. Um the book of Proverbs talks about being prepared not for your children but for your grandchildren. Um, more importantly, we as a whole should be thinking of death because that is one surefire way to focus on your salvation is to not just think in terms of this moment is everything because it's not. It's exactly the opposite of the truth. Um, and so we have the eternal to look forward to. And so that is why um, when I found out they said there was nothing there at first I was like, "Yippee, I'm I'm good." good. Then I'm like, wait a second, I'm not good. I started thinking this level of preparation, this level of vigilance should be where I am all the time. It should be where we try to be all the time. And that's part of the reason why in the past week people have been like, well, you're on this Protestants program, you're on this person program. I'm on going on another program tonight is because I realize I have time but I know >> you have [clears throat] nothing to lose >> and I don't exactly and I don't know when that ends. So if I'm prepared and I can cover these awful debts and I can cover my insurance costs monthly which is low. I think it's going to be around $100 total when it's finished. Um then I I become effectively invulnerable. I can I can go into non-stop debates. I can go into non-stop attacks. And I can go into non-stop preaching of true orthodoxy everywhere.
And so that was a cool thing to realize is that I realized when you have nothing to lose, you have everything to gain.
>> So what you're trying to say is the Lord rekindled that fire that was already in you.
>> Maybe I I don't know. Maybe I that >> he does that, doesn't it?
>> It does, but I don't but I don't also want to sound like I'm like this cool guy who had God rekindle a fire in him because I'm I'm just not that cool.
>> Well, he [snorts] does it to any one of us sinners. Thank God.
>> Yep, that's true. Uh let me see here.
So, once again, uh that's why because of the big card thing and because I'm literally in negative numbers on all of my accounts now, my goal currently is $800.
Um, I know that that's kind of ridiculous. It is the end of the month.
Even the bill money that was for the bills. So, normally the 200 to 300 I get off YouTube has already been going to food. Um, so that's why I'm setting a ridiculously high goal and I'm going to keep that on the rest of the screen. Um, I hope that people will be kind enough and uh, you know, people have asked me people asked me this week even how does how do you survive? And I said it's my community. they allow me to survive and I'm grateful to them. Um I also had the horror of seeing how some people actually refer to their donors which was kind of horrifying but the whole point is that yeah >> um I did also get a chance to experience gratitude and I have been experiencing gratitude now for three years uh just about um since uh this became my full-time job. But now I'm scaling up and we're going to go everywhere that people say what's this orthodoxy? We are coming in to say here it is >> and you know repent and be baptized.
>> Amen.
>> That's that's how we're we're doing this.
>> How dare you evangelize the unevangelized father.
>> CDMPD. Thank you. $20. Thank you so much. So we can update that. That's something we do here on our regular live streams, folks. We actually will do like countdowns and stuff like that because we try to get to a goal. I don't know if we'll get to any anything special, but we are here for another hour. I'm actually going to be here only for another half hour or so because I do want to eat. Um and there will be uh there there is God willing food prepared. Um so that is now we are now at 20. Uh yeah, and so I want to eat before we get to the next stream, which is going to be on John Dirk's channel. So our goal is now down to 780. So thank you again so much uh CDMPD uh for that and we really appreciate it.
Um so we are we're down to 780. So glory to God. Um I think we I've covered all the basis. I've covered, you know, the the kind of the difficulty and sometimes stupidity of what I call the palace intrigue.
>> I will say that most of the stuff that people are talking about is generally palace ind intrigue.
>> Um, and it's unfortunately unnecessary, but nobody believes me cuz Sweden, I guess. I don't know. I don't know why.
I'll say this is that you've got um today's um what's happening in our culture today is there's so much um drama and there there's just all this conflict all the time you know whether all the talk shows are conflict oriented and and people get all you know into into all these conflicts but and all we're being fed all this stuff all the time and you know what good does it a lot even the news stuff out there. It's like what good is it >> are these broadcasters talking about all the time talking about well what can we do about it? Are they going to change this situation at all?
>> And the answer is largely no.
>> I blame it on Jerry Springer.
>> Well, [snorts] let me see [laughter] here. Uh is there another stream tonight? There is another stream that will be starting at uh 10:30 Eastern Standard Time and that is going to be a crossover on John Dirk's channel. It should be on my channel as well. So, uh, and then we're going to be talking about the case for true Orthodoxy.
>> Uh, Little Wing with a with a member donation. Thank you so much. $10 to help keep the lights on. We really appreciate it. Um, and so we we're we're dead serious. Like, I kid you not, when I talk about like the massive debts, I actually uh I found a highinterest credit card. I I real I basically asked for that so that I could move the giant debt, the 400 car debt, >> consolidate the debt.
>> Yeah. That way at least it's only like 23% and it doesn't start.
>> That's still terrible.
>> It's better than 165%.
>> Yeah, it sure is. That's true.
>> I want to give you I want to give you my favorite quote from Jerry Springer.
Okay.
>> Okay.
>> He he said I believe me, I didn't watch him a lot. I watched him out of curiosity. Let let me make my apologies first. No, I I could He said this. I just I never forgot. He said He said, "People wonder where I get my guests. I wonder where I get my audiences."
>> That's true.
>> I know. [laughter] >> I like to think that we're we I think that we're a friendly bunch. Uh we are, you know, we do we are argumentative, but we are [snorts] >> Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. Saraphim.
SARAPIM WEBSTER, WE WERE TALKING about you. I know that you're probably offended and you're Thank you. Uh, thank you so much for that. Um, cuz we do have our differences and I just wish you and DTC would get along. Anyway, thank you so much. I really appreciate that. Um, and that's this is again once again to show people that even though True Orthodox may disagree, Christian love still exists. It's a real >> brothers in Christ.
>> Exactly. So, you know, I mean, if you don't do you want to say we're not officially brother, I don't I don't care. But the whole point is we still have responsibilities as Christians uh to act like Christians. So, if we can show that better than these accuminist heretics, we've done our job well. So, down to 750. Let's get back to the comments. Regulated 392. Thank you so much for $4.99. Wow, people are people are coming in. Thank you. Ayanakari says, "Hopefully allows some World Orthodox to come in and CHALLENGE YOU."
ABSOLUTELY. I HAVE been hoping for.
>> We have the link. Come on, guys. Get in there.
>> Well, well, no, no, no, cuz they're they're definitely coming on because they want here. They don't want to come because it's too comfortable. Like, you know, it's it's it's our dojo. And so, but like, >> oh, we'll let you play in the dojo. Come on.
>> But now on a a neutral Protestant field where they have to prove something, well, now they want to they want to strut their stuff. So, I AM SO LOOKING forward to this because I haven't had a real good World Orthodox discussion since 2023.
>> I've kind of been waiting for it.
>> Here comes the jiu-jitsu. Oh no.
>> All right. And so, uh, once again, regulated 392. Thank you for $4.99 and the Orthodox Field. Thank you. Nothing like a good glass of aged whiskey and a cigar. Dandichi, I am so jealous. Um, honest, not of the the whiskey of that.
I mean, I don't mind the cigar.
>> I do like the whiskey. I don't like the cigar.
>> I miss I miss this. I miss the cigar or I miss the tobacco. I have >> I miss it, but I I it ain't worth it.
>> I've already said since March 8th, I have not touched tobacco and every time I hear it, I'm like because I kind of want I have an actual pack of cigarettes in my car. It has one tossed cigarette from around April where in desperation I bought a pack a month after quitting. I attempted to take a puff and it tasted so foreign and so awful that I just tossed it. That pack still sits in my car with the one cigarette and every time like this has been stressful this period like with the money and stuff like that and we're talking about it has been stressful going on different channels and stuff like that. Every day I have thought, huh, I could just smoke a cigarette. I mean, it's in the car and every day I'm like, >> "Not today.
>> Not today." And I'm like, I'm I can just I'm gonna skip it today. Maybe maybe the great debate of 2026. I will have a cigarette afterwards. But right now, I'm still just trying to knock out my record. It's been since March 8th. I have gone 32 years smoking. I am now two months without it. Uh just a two and a half months. It's going to be three months. Yeah, >> it's hard.
>> So, thank you so much. Uh, Maria's thread 1999. Well, thank you. Father bless. May God bless you. Um, name of the father and the holy spirit. Father's blessed. Why is the gok and your senate not in communion? What would it take for these two senates to come into communion? Could you please lay that out for us? Thank you. Yes.
>> The bishops of our respective cinnids [snorts] need to talk to each other. Now that sounds super easy, but I promise you it is the opposite of super easy.
One, running churches is hard. Two, especially if you are big, running lots of churches is super hard. So I do not I used to be one of those people just like people are saying now going, "Why can't true Orthodox just talk to each other?"
I am so sorry I ever asked that question because it is hard. Uh even if we were all free people with free time and didn't have jobs so on and so forth the coordination our sister church in Greece coordinates a a yearly an annual feast on uh the uh convent's feast day on the merber bearers. Uh father Bonafice went to that uh this past year. It was wonderful.
Yeah, >> it was but it was big, right? And it was complicated. And that did not look like it was an easy setup by any means. And the coordination of I don't know how many bishops were there. What? Three, four dozen. Uh >> oh, yeah. Yeah.
>> Like that is one communion with and we're the small ones.
And to set that up, welcome Austrian autocrat. Um hold on. I need to add um people on because I haven't added >> um I mean that's fair father but if orthodox unity is the priority then >> but it's not that's the point the the big thing is that it is not a priority our salvation is a priority >> communion is a secondary priority because we already have spiritual communion that is something that is real >> um okay so hold on I need to add I'm going to this is going to take me a while guys because I'm kind of slow because I can't just add everything together I add it my name. Um, so let me Okay, so I've added that's one.
>> Can you all hear me?
>> Yeah, I can. We can hear you. Uh, welcome.
>> Okay, good. All right. Hi.
>> Hi. Um, okay. Hold on. I got to add regulated.
Uh, so yeah, the point is um, yeah, it's it is absolutely crazy. like now uh I know that Austrian autocrat he's part of the uh he's part of the true Orthodox of Romania now >> yes >> it's big things are complicated there so when you're talking about official discussion it's not like these bishops have nothing to do they are actually busy >> I mean our bishops I think every single bishop in our sen none of them use cell phones really only our only our metropolitan uses cell phone and it's like very basic I think or testing it out so I don't remember >> believe we can synize with that um >> yeah they're not too like uh tech excess uh obsessed basically uh yeah but uh we're looking around for some communion I keep hearing this thing with uh Macario's communion ley but I have to say like in our confession of faith it's forbidden to have ley commune because uh We're not in formal eucharistic communion just because of the bad taste the last couple communions were and like some of the history. So, >> uh just the principle our bishops forbid the communing ley until we establish a full formal communion. So, I'm very skeptical and I'm also a bit skeptical because of the whole uh rumors with Macarios and the uh denial of the atonement basically this Romanian view.
So, >> oh, that if that's the case, wow, that >> they're Romany.
>> Yeah, I'm going to have to I'm going to have to investigate this. And I'm also I I mean, personally, I'm not too well read on the whole Oxentio situation. So, I just I wanted to uh get more read.
>> It's a it's a it's a complicated it's a complicated case and unfortunately people don't realize it's a complicated case and people just want to talk and talk about, you know, what they think is the right way for things to go and that's just not how life works. Oh, wait. Hold on. All right. I think I'm I'm almost at everyone. And I am I know that it's I'm adding this as fast as I can. We're down to 685 for the goal. So, thank you so much. Um very kind. And I am not done. So, let me >> let me know if you need help, father.
>> Okay. Uh do can you control the the the the thingies the the um the the banners?
Yeah.
What?
>> The banners. The banners. Oh, can you change?
>> Oh, no, no, no. I can change the banners, but um Okay. No, I'm just saying if you need help adding the numbers up. I'm pretty >> Oh, no, no, no. I'm pretty good. I got it. I'm doing them one by one. So, >> Okay.
>> All right. So, we are now up to 120.
Thank you so much. Um, and we're down the goal is down to 680. Um, and again, remember YouTube does take 30%. So, if you want to, you know, help out with PayPal, uh, Cash App, BTC, LTC, or XMR, just go to nfttu.net. Um, there's lots of ways to do that or or Gibson go. Just look in the description. So, thank you for that. Uh, thank you so much for everyone who is uh supporting right now.
And there's, you know, I'm I'm once again genuinely touched. Uh, Ignatius said, Pope John Paul said we must preserve the truth even if we may reduce that to the 12. Again, I'm starting to think the true Orthodox are the 12 in this era. [snorts] >> Uh well, we're Yeah, we don't we don't like, you know, seven as the holy father Sarah from Rose said, you know, there were 7,000 who did not bend the knee to ball. I'll take that as a quote instead. But I get the warm feelings. Um Ustratius Argenti says, "A lot of the bishops in the GOC Stfanos operate like higher monks traveling from parish to parish in their dasceses because there's such a shortage of Greece in Greece." Tell me about it.
And this is by the way one of the things that motivates the par the palace intrigue unfortunately uh HPVC Chris still missing a funding source. Uh let me check. Am I missing?
What am I missing?
>> BTC FTC XMR gifts and go PayPal cash app.
>> What are they talking about?
>> I'm I'm checking. I'm checking. But uh God willing I see that soon. Uh I am I'm looking though.
on on only a priest note I I kind of know because I was talking to a higher monk you see Stefanos >> okay >> and he basically said the same thing like I'm pretty sure in all their American parishes they have like no priests except in one part in Connecticut >> every single tour that I've seen well arenod is actually pretty well managed but we have started opening more parishes at an unprecedented rate so >> yeah I think Yeah, I think that in all are just going >> you got to watch out for those Romanians.
>> You're gonna you're gonna see you're going to see that shortage soon enough because Romanians for some reason have been like a really well-kept secret in general. Um like you know it's like funny because now everyone hears about the Romanians, the Orthodox Romanians, even the World Orthodox Romanians. Like six, seven years ago people were just like, you know, they they were talking about Greeks and Russians and that was it. Now it's like Romanians are everywhere. So, >> you want to know why?
>> What's the size of the average Romanian family?
>> It's pretty large.
>> Uh, hold on. I am checking something.
I'm checking right now.
>> Give me a moment.
Okay. Wow. Thank you. Uh, HPV. I'm Okay, I think I can put that up. Hold on one moment. Uh, I definitely will be glad to put that up. Hold on.
[snorts] Okay, that is a massive assist. Um, a donation from HPV in uh the crypto uh in BTC. Um, and that was for $300.
BTC.
>> Wow.
>> Yep. And Bitcoin, the mighty Bitcoin.
Thank you so much. Wow. What a That is That's huge. Thank you. Um so >> that's the first time I've seen crypto since I've been on here.
>> Um believe it or not, we actually do have regular crypto donors. Um >> Oh, I know. But I This is the first time I've seen it live.
>> I I It was I've seen it live twice.
There was once that happened about two years ago and then there was once that happened last year and someone said check it's always check your wallet because there's no way to have a crypto wallet normally update unless it's like really horribly low security and nobody wants those >> Yeah. So yes, Wow is correct. Uh says uh do you live in Romania? Uh and the answer is um >> no. Okay. Anthony Lame the met says father bless forgive me. How can the spiritual unity and unity around the Eucharist be divided when it is in when it is Christ in the sacrament? As a Protestant convert, it sounds funny to my ears. I I don't know. I think the Eucharistic language is in the liturgy itself. I mean, we talk about it invisibly broken, you know, invisibly undivided yet broken divided.
>> Yeah. You can't divide Christ.
>> Yeah. He's indivisible because if if you if you give communion to say 10 people, you're giving Christ to each of them.
Yet at the he's he's indivisible. It's like water, like he's he's Christ, you know. So if they're receiving Christ, they are receiving Christ. If they're not, they're not. Um and then two, that sounds almost identical to what I'd hear from Calvinists. Maybe you can explain theologically how that isn't the case. I have no idea what you're referring to.
So if >> I think he's talking about how some uh churches are not in communion with one another.
>> But yeah, but the point is we weren't in communion with one another because we all came from different places. Like it doesn't make sense that the Romanian true Orthodox for example who have been persecuted individually in Romania while their like villages are getting raised and taken over are basically going to then uh reach out to communion for the Greeks and Russians and the Russians are basically being overrun by the communists. Like the idea that things just magically get better um is uh you know is crazy. Um, so yeah, I would say it's not that it's not it's not realistic uh considering the timeline that we're working in. Um, if that makes sense. And I hope it does. Um, but you know, I think that, you know, it's it's hard to say that that's um it's hard to say that that's like, you know, a beall end all answer because communism's over. Yeah.
But the state persecution isn't necessarily. The Kremlin is still persecuting true orthodox Russian bodies. the state of Greece stopped persecuting true Orthodox bodies until the 2002 um redoing of the constitution where uh the new calendarist snuck themselves into the constitution to make themselves the legal church of Greece in Bulgaria. They're literally trying to take away their legal status right now.
So I just can't see how one could argue that there is nothing happening to the true orthodox and we should all get back together. Things are not easy. uh even with our own senate, we can't even the only place all our bishops can meet is Greece just because of all the issues between different countries. So, you know, I mean, I'm I'm not saying I'm not demanding you lay slack, but you also have to be realistic about what can be accomplished and what can't.
>> Well, yeah. I mean, the church is full of sinners, so there you go. Uh HPVZ Chris says you can add your BTC donation address as a watched wallet to receive updates without compromising security in several wallet clients. A mobile wallet like Blue Wallet comes to mind.
>> You guys are speaking foreign language to me. I don't >> I mean I understand it. I don't know. I don't know. Is Blue Wallet an offline wallet or is it an app? If it's an app, I could probably just get it.
>> I hear so many different things.
Yeah, I think that that's I [snorts] think that's actually >> I'll take a look. I'll I'll take a look.
Uh >> do you take NFTTS, father?
No, ironically, everyone asked me, but it's pretty funny [clears throat] that we predate NFTTS and so like people will I've made this joke and it's true that I get on these chains on X where people are like NFT like all these NFT wallet sites and then we're listed there and I'll make jokes like get the latest NFT news from NFT and occasionally these people will like it not even realizing I have nothing to do with it whatsoever.
[laughter] >> Yeah. Um, so yeah, [clears throat] says, "What's all this noise?" Well, there's a lot of noise.
Uh, let me see here.
>> There's some noise coming over on someone else's mic.
>> Yeah, Dr. Compromise says, "Why is Webster here pretending to be front?"
It's not an issue of pretending. He's actually saying that even though we disagree, >> we welcome everyone. Even if we disagree.
>> Yeah. Like the entire beginning [snorts] of this episode talked about the disagreements between you two. So again, >> I mean, heck, we let Matt on here, you know? Yeah, Matt. [laughter] I don't know. I'm not comparing to Matt.
You know, Matt's [snorts] unique in his own way.
>> So, we can Okay, so we can have a split Eucharist and still be in unity. Then what is unity? The unity is of the faith and of the spirit. I mean, do you can you honestly say that if you're giving the holy mystery to 10 different people that they're not all receiving the grace of the mystery or that they're not all receiving Christ? I mean from my perspective I don't see it as that big of an administrative division. Um >> I mean St. Basil St. Basil talks about this in chapter 30 on the Holy Spirit.
This is like true orthodoxy essentials.
Yeah.
>> And one of the main arguments that uh cacodox use against us like you're divided all this and that blah blah blah but this is not seen in the church because there's been uh differing factions at times because of uh persecution division etc etc. I mean during aranism it took like two months to send a letter probably at times if you're going from are heavily persecuted [snorts] like from all the way from Alexandria say St. Aanius to maybe Lucifer of Kagglei or something >> a lot can happen. [laughter] >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. Anthony says >> yeah Anthony says are the 10 different people in sism from one another. I would say that sometimes people can appear to be in sism and then realize that they're not. Um that actually is in the history of the church. this occurred um you see this in the seventh ecumenical council where people that were not generally recognized pointed to the cannons and said based you know on the cannons etc and based on the history of the other councils of the church you have no reason to reject us and the council ultimately had to say that's true they're right so the point is um [snorts and clears throat] the perception of sism versus actual sism is a different >> potential versus actual right >> I That's a that's a can of worms we don't want to [laughter] >> I mean I think uh I don't know I think really it's only the Greeks that maybe have what you can label schism because on the Russian side it's like I know Metropolitan Agavangle basically says well if you left beforehand or serv community it's okay it's whatever we don't consider you schismatics >> and uh you take the rest of our >> I I I think maybe the Russians kind of give credence but maybe they have a few other issues with the others confession of faith or something I don't Okay.
[snorts] Uh Anthony says, "What what if they say in fact they don't recognize the other communion? Can they both be sharing in the same Eucharist?" Well, of course, because we don't appeal to ourselves when we uh pray for the Eucharist or when we do the liturgy. We pray to Christ and to bring down the Holy Spirit. Like we we have surprisingly little control over how that works. Um you know, I hope you see that Saraphim is reaching an olive branch etc. Hopefully that's mutual. I I hope.
>> Come on up here, guys. Let's have a Come on. Let's just sort it out.
>> That's the easiest way. Argenti says, "When did Archbishop Stfanos appeal to the Roor Heresthesia in order to prevent his parish from being seized?" That was um I'd have to look that up, but it was a new calendar Archbishop who was attempting to take I believe it was the cathedral. Um, so you know, I again I don't have that handy, but I will try to find that and hopefully I can sing soon.
But, um, definitely it made news and headlines when it happened. So, uh, let me see here.
Uh, let's see.
>> What are you doing over there?
>> All right. So, well, we're here. It is now 9:54.
Um, so we're going to probably go in about 5 to 10 minutes and I hope that the answers are clear and satisfactory.
If they're not, I will continue trying to answer them. I know that I know this subject is frustrating to people, but unfortunately the answers are not always ready. Um, the church exists and has to exist by Christ's promise. And sometimes that means in configurations that are not what we would call standard. And sometimes we like things neat and clean.
Um, and that's the temptation of papism ultimately is that everything falls into neat, clean order and organization. And unfortunately, it is not the real history of the church. Um, >> I think it's only like fairly recently since like maybe even 2000s you could say because of the whole postsviet collapse was a chaos in of itself. You could really just say it's only in the past 20 years did we get constant contact between perhaps the outside world and now we have the age of internet where in hindsight 2020 we can just say it's so easy to contact it's so easy >> that's true contact is one thing but a a willingness for reconciliation is a different >> animal >> and so I mean and that's true I mean this is one thing remember that even the term canonical that the world orthodox like to They really only started using that in 1960. So like that that's that's not a that's not all of these things that they try to pretend are like these ancient traditions like that first guy was saying are not. They're they're they're new. Uh the entire edifice upon which world orthodoxy stands is a largely b made up based on madeup stuff and advertising.
>> So but in any case give me just one second.
Now I'm wondering if I should I think my next >> teamoxy team. That's cold. That's cold.
>> I am kind of cold blooded today.
>> Great babe and TF and are talking about Austrian. The noises in the background.
So what you doing back there?
>> I I I just have to move a few things cuz uh I have to fix it for my relatives.
And the house is uh like creaky. It's like an old house. I'm >> Are you back in Europe or are you in New York?
>> No, I'm still around like tri-state area, New York, New Jersey.
>> Oh, yeah. So, unfortunately, >> uh Anthony Anthony the misses I don't feel it answered anything, but that could just be my problem. I mean, all I can say is we can keep on trying to talk it through. So, that's that's where I'm going to go with it. I don't know what um what I what couldn't be answered there. Like, I just I don't know. They could >> I think that once if you clarify the fact that the Eucharist is divisible physically but indivisible by nature.
>> I mean >> it's not it's not divisible by administration.
>> Yeah. I guess it's his problem is maybe a bit more uh legalistic like if you're not literally in communion 24/7 maybe it's problematic because uh >> but trouble >> but then like what about like when a patriarch or you know a first hierarchies and like now we have the internet but sometimes it would take them four or five years before they knew who to commemorate and we're not accusing you of being legalistic but I'm simply stating that in any cases that falls apart it's just a that's all we're saying is that there had there has to be some spiritual aspect to this that >> yeah it's not a light switch. It's it's very complicated.
>> No, I was just trying to say it the best words I can. I'm sorry. My English isn't the best sometimes.
>> No, you're fine. Legalistic just to Anthony for a second like I I No, I don't mean that.
>> I don't think you meant legalistic. I think you meant like transactional. It's not It's not how it >> Yeah, >> it's not really how it works.
What would we say to Calvinists regarding the Eucharist? I actually was wondering what you meant by that because I don't know what the Calvinists say about the Eucharist. I mean, I I do they believe that the Eucharist is if they don't believe the Eucharist is the body and blood of Christ, we tell them it's the body and blood of Christ. Um >> they put it in like a high spiritual level, but they do not believe in the mystical aspect of it. So, they just put in a high memorial intellectual. They don't understand the meaning of >> thought somewhere.
>> Do they believe that it's really the body and blood of Christ or not?
>> Well, a lot of people don't understand like they say it's symbolic, but when they use that word symbolic, >> they're saying instead of versus what we're saying when we say symbolic, we use we're using like the Greek like >> that makes sense. All right. I didn't know that.
>> Yeah.
>> Um >> then that's that's the problem you guys had with that guy the other other night.
He's like, "Oh, it's symbolic." I was like, "Yeah, but you're using symbolic incorrectly." Symb symbolon or the root of the Greek version of uh symbolic literally talks about the fullness of that reality.
>> So, he's explaining here he's saying the very real presence of Christ. They don't believe this. They're an historian in their sacramental view of the Eucharist.
Okay.
>> Yeah. Yeah, they believe it's symbolic in the sense that in instead of versus what we believe is symbolic to us is the fullness of the reality of the mystery of Christ, >> right? [snorts] But what the orthodox position on the Eucharist is very simply that it is really the body and blood of Christ and it is really transmuted into the body and blood of Christ that take a physical form that is not like typical [clears throat] uh blood and flesh but are truly blood and truly flesh. But in our sin, in our sinfulness, we only perceive it as bread and wine.
>> Father, what do you think of uh like the usage of transubstantiation as a term in Orthodox in the council of Jerusalem?
>> Yeah, I I don't I don't have a problem with its usage. I have a problem with [clears throat] ascribing all of the Roman Catholicism to it.
>> What would you say is the difference? I would well the big difference would be uh first off the type of the type of um what's the word I'm looking for change that is occurring uh I believe that it is you know a real change that is occurring to the body and blood but I don't believe anything is how do I put this I don't believe things are mechanically occurring at the wording of the priest etc. So you would say transubstantiation is if it was used in the place of like meta.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. I I would agree with that if it goes that far. Yes. But if it starts adding all the accretions of the Roman Catholics, no.
>> Yeah. Uh let me see here. Uh Dracia says, "Don't traditional Lutherans believe in the real presence?" I believe they believe in a term called consubstantiation, not transubstantiation. They say real presence, but they don't really mean real presence.
>> Yeah. They mean in, around, and through, and near.
>> Yeah.
>> Um, Anthony the man says, "So, how is this view not the same?"
>> I mean, well, we believe in the body and blood of Christ, and they don't.
>> Um, that's the first thing. Uh, so that's a that's a pretty big difference last I checked.
>> Yeah. Spiriton says if I go to Rosie one weekend then Matthew the next weekend then Roore next weekend then Roak the next weekend then the Florida night the next I received communion in all those weekends. Um I don't know when you receive communion at all. And I would think in most of those cases they would probably stop you and ask if you're part of their church. So I I I cannot realistically see how you successfully >> and I don't know if you would should do that all in one weekend. Actually canonical issue there. There's there's a lot of canonical issues and I'm about I'm about 50% certain you would probably be stopped around one or two.
>> Yeah.
>> Um said didn't say the Moscow Patrick can have valid sacraments except for their Eucharist. Uh >> what do you mean by valid?
>> Here I'll [snorts] read you the Westminster confession. The outward elements in the sacrifice duly set apart to the uses ordained by Christ have such relation to him crucified as that truly >> sacment.
>> Anthony I think his question is very revealing here because what he says is how can Christ be divided among groups that aren't in the same communion but view each other as a legitimate from one another. The reason why I say that this is an enlightening question is because it sounds very similar to um the real question that is often asked which is how can Christ be divided among groups that aren't the same belief as each other. And I think you know that because I think you you're aware that that is the real question. We don't believe that other that we don't believe that any true orthodox hold false beliefs and we don't they don't they're true orthodox because they are trying to protect the orthodox belief. So communion or not they they still have the same belief.
>> What about name worshippers?
>> Is that tangential communion?
>> Yeah that's the term that I would use and I don't um name worshippers on other on the other hand that's condemned heresy. Well, the question is, and this is my issue, is how seriously are these people name worshippers?
>> And so, because sometimes, I hate to say this, but I think some of the people who are really big on the name worshiping thing aren't serious. I think that >> I think they're confused by some, you know.
>> Yeah. Um, so, let me see here. How can Christ be divided? Are groups that are, you know, I think I just answered that, solid rock seeker. I hope I did.
>> There's not more than one Christ.
There's only one Christ.
>> Christ cannot be divided. The faith cannot be divided. The truth cannot be divided. Like if if you're doing >> but you can divide yourselves and separate yourself from Christ, >> right? That's where we get schism from.
>> Yeah. Um CPD, father, you better go eat soon. Thank you. I probably will. Says different weekends. This is a question you all refuse to answer it. I did not answer it. Um I do not know cuz you would have to cuz you weren't specific on the Roor church. Like did you mean roar? Because then I would say >> if you're doing it if you're doing it every weekend and you're in full contact with them and they let you do it. I mean that's on them and that's >> as long as they're true orthodox. Yeah.
I mean it's that's valid. But if you don't but but I don't think that based on the climate of the day that that would work successfully. That's all I'm saying.
>> Unless you're not in commun or in communication with them and you do it without them knowing. If you don't have the blessing and they're all not all informal communion. I mean even if you somehow bypass and take the sacraments.
I mean just read scripture. It says those who take it unworthy.
>> Yeah. You don't want to park take unworthy. That's a whole other issue.
>> Yeah. That's that's a tricky one.
>> Would you like me to read the Lord's supper out of the Westminster confession?
>> Um okay.
>> You got time?
>> I kind of I'm running out of time and there's a lot of question.
>> Yeah. You got to eat. Yeah. I'm sorry.
Byebye.
another day.
>> Yeah. And so, let me see.
>> Yeah. You got to be on there at 10:30, right?
>> The confusion is someone has to be right and someone has to be wrong. Yes. But ultimately, it will be for future councils to decide after we're dead. I hate to say that, but there have been generational systems that have lasted 50, 60 years. The most we can do is preserve the faith as we have it. And >> pray to God that that uh is solved.
>> Now, Father Joseph, blessings, fathers.
Thank you for all the streams. I'm fairly new to the faith and you're learning a lot, listening along. Thank you. No problem. God bless you and thank you for the donation to help keep the lights on. I am moving as fast as I can here.
>> Yeah. I about say you need to do the departing piece.
>> Yeah. Uh and so all right. So we are now at we ended with a final goal. Thank you so much. It was a big goal. So I'm not I'm not judging this negatively, but we actually ended with 370 left. a full goal of 430 cent. Uh yeah, so out of 800, we got 430 and I cannot be more grateful. Um this will help a lot. Um and so I will I will say right off the bat, uh that solved the bills problem, which was one of the big problems, and we still have a couple more to go, but I have faith and I have hope that we can do this. Okay. Uh in approximately 24 minutes we are going to be I'm going to be on John Durk's channel. I'm going to be making the case for true orthodoxy.
Uh if you want to come there will be a live call in people who have questions who want to uh argue. Uh hold on. Scrim says yo.
>> Okay. Yo.
>> Yeah. We got to close the doors. Sorry.
>> Closing the doors guys. And so >> father's got to eat. Come on. I will be back at 10:30 on John Durx's channel and on this channel. Uh, and we will um I'll be making the case for true Orthodoxy.
So, if you are interested in that, come back in 20 minutes. I am going to go eat. Um, and again, let me just, as always, I got to I got to just first off just quickly say uh thank you to everyone, to our guests, uh, to Father Bonafice, reader John for being here, to Austrian Autocrat for being here, uh, to all of our listeners, to those who ask questions and have comments, and those who support our mission. Support the channel, we at NFT need your help.
Support us by subscribing or donating at nfttu.net or on gifts and go. Remember all of you in our prayers, and thank you for all the support for NFTU. And as always, don't forget if you this was helpful to like and subscribe. Uh so we will see you soon through the prayers of holy fathers. Jesus Christ God have mercy on us and save us. Amen. Scrim I would suggest going to the next stream that will be starting in about 20 minutes if you don't mind.
>> See y'all in 20.
>> All right. Take care guys. Have a good night. See you soon if you're sticking around.
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