Femi vs Police Officer - BBC Debate on Henry Nowak

Añadido: 2026-06-04

[00:00:00]Morning people. Welcome back to F politics. An 18-year-old being killed is bad enough. That 18-year-old being handcuffed as he lies bleeding in the street by the police despite screaming several times that he had been stabbed is atrocious. Nigel Farage using that tragedy to call for pure cold rage against what he's calling two-tier policing against white people, inciting violence in the streets, despite the father of the murdered teenager explicitly saying, "Please don't use my son's death to stir up division because this is not about seekism. This is not about racism. This is about murder."

[00:00:37]That is unfucking forgivable. But for news channels like the BBC to see all of that and still choose to hold a debate on the topic of well should we use this as an example of how anti-racism has gone too far in the police. So not only going explicitly against the wishes of the father of the murdered teenager but giving a platform to the views that Nigel Farage has been putting out there knowing that those views have led to violence on our streets. That is a level of moral depravity that I struggle to describe. Martin Galla is a former superintendent with Police Scotland.

[00:01:08]Femi Olawale is a human rights campaigner and journalist. Martin, let's get back to our ask question about whether this DEI training as it's called or equality training or diversity train, anti-racism training is what has driven the police into this channel.

[00:01:22]>> We have had 22 years of diversity training and different forms being applied to the police. The police are not institutionally racist. the there is obviously racists within the police at times who are found and dealt with. The institution in itself is not racist.

[00:01:41]Actually, I I dispute the the entire concept myself, but that's a different matter.

[00:01:45]>> Just for the record, that police officer is literally saying he doesn't believe the concept of institutional racism even exists.

[00:01:52]>> To say that this training does not affect operational officers performance is not true. There is a climate of fear in the police about this. Jeremy, >> for me, what do you make of that? the the whatever the the good intentions behind the equality diversity training, it's gone too far.

[00:02:07]>> Let's get this straight. Um uh Henry Novak's father came on came on air and he said explicitly this is not about racism. This is not about seekers and this is about murder. So if we try and make this an issue where we say the answer is that there's too much anti-racism and essentially meaning there should be more racism, you are directly going against the wishes of a grieving father. Let's start there.

[00:02:27]Second second point as for as for the Metropolitan Police for example, they were found to be institutionally institutionally racist. Um their own figures say that they use violence against black people four times more than than against white people. So again that institutional thing has been pro has been proven has been established. Uh I was recently I live in the West Midlands. West Milland's police officers recently in a meeting I had with them.

[00:02:47]They talked about that as a problem and and my personal experience with the West Milan's police was reporting a a reform party um mayoral candidate who was basically tweeting that I should be kidnapped and sent to another country. I reported that threat against me on on the basis of racism and the response of one of the metropolitan of the Westmin police officers was to was to then find one of my tweets criticizing the reform party where a reform party affiliate had said that their campaign in 2016 was similar to the Nazis. I and he and I said reform party politicians shouldn't wear the poppy because they would have sided with the nut they would have sided with the Germans and very very niche isn't it because the big issue here is whether anti-racism has gone too far and caused the police to lose their perspective.

[00:03:30]>> This is important. The Westlands police officer then said if you utter those words again we're going to have a problem. So the Westlands police threatened me just all on the same page. The topic of the debate is has anti-racism in the police gone too far? That police officer then argued that institutional racism doesn't even exist? And I give an example where the West Midland's police threatened me, a black person, for reporting a racist threat against me.

[00:03:59]Meaning that that police force as an institution chose to ignore a racist threat against a black person and instead chose to threaten that black person further for pointing out that one of Nigel Farage's friends said that the campaign that he ran together with Nigel Farage was basically the modern-day version of Nazi propaganda. All of this to a normal person would be pretty central to the question of is the police force racist? But Jeremy Vine says that may have nothing to do with what we're talking about. And that has gone and that has gone to the highest level and and and and my complaints against them have gone to the highest level and they found that behavior to be acceptable.

[00:04:33]>> For the record, when I say they find that behavior acceptable, what I mean is they're still allowing that police officer to keep working. So, the West Mills, please add a >> We don't have their response, so we can't really get too far into this, but but I I I think I see what you're saying that basically you do you do not believe the problem is anti-racism. It is lingering racism in the police.

[00:04:51]>> Yeah. And we and we've seen this argument used that the police are too anti-racist that you got it got used in in with the Rotherham situation with with the grooming gangs that because they were too scared of being seen race seen as racist.

[00:05:02]>> Was it not true in that situation? Well, well, the primary issue there was a failure to listen to listen to victims.

[00:05:08]That was the primary issue. They they disregarded the working-class girls who came forward. But even if there was an element of that, as was mentioned in the report, there was a quote misplaced sense of political correctness. The problem there is essentially white officers believing that it is somehow racist to arrest brown pedophiles. Now, now if you think that's your understanding of racist racism, >> you need better diversity training.

[00:05:30]>> Exactly it, Martin. That's probably where you would have common ground with Fei. that that somehow the police have got it into their heads that you must try to avoid arresting someone from an ethnic minority if they have claimed racism against them.

[00:05:41]>> He says that not anti-racism being removed means racism. No, it doesn't.

[00:05:46]>> Basic logical fact check there. If removing anti-racism measures doesn't equal racism, you are arguing that without anti-racism measures, the police force would not be racist at all. Which is a hell of a statement to make. It means going back to the concept that has existed since the creation of policing in Britain which is without fear or favor. He said that um the police did not listen to victims in the Rotherham case. That is correct. The police also did not listen to Henry Novak. The police are not listening to their own officers because they don't want to hear what they're saying and they're not listening to society which is saying to them, you have gone too far.

[00:06:24]>> Tell me what you make of that because that is Martin's own experience.

[00:06:27]caution. Well, >> that that may be your own experience, but I as an experience, especially as a black person who was on the receiving end of the problems that I just described, for example, the fact that police officers are are seven times more likely to stop and search a black person, four times more likely to use violence against against a black person and and in my and in my case willing to threaten me for criticizing the racism in the political in a political party that the the reform party, I am on the receiving end of this sort of stuff and there are police force is getting it wrong. So your argument that we can simply allow the police to simply act without fear or favor, if you lead them to act as they currently act, that means racism, that means extraviolent, disproportionate violence against black people. That is the status quo that you are defending.

[00:07:04]>> So So Jeremy, let's return to facts here. Okay. That training started in 2004.

[00:07:11]Okay. So how can the police possibly be 22 years later as a result of that training worse than they were? It is absolute nonsense. There were problems in the police in the past. They have been dealt with. There are obviously still going to be individual instances of bad behavior, but the police are being judged for the crimes that are decades old.

[00:07:38]>> This is this is what annoys me. Like you are sitting there telling us everything.

[00:07:42]Everything is essentially on a systemic level fine. And I'm giving you examples of proof. For example, the the Casey report this relatively recently since Sarah Everard showing that the Metropolitan Police is institutionally racist, sexist, and misogyn and homophobic. I I I gave you an example of how the Westmin police at the highest level was willing to essentially condone a police officer threatening a black person.

[00:08:04]>> You said you've done this and I can't I haven't got response from the Fei. So, you keep going on about this particular case and you said it. Okay, let's let's park that for a minute. So, here's what's [ __ ] up about him stopping me there. Because what's the point of having this debate? Ultimately, this is about is the police force in the UK racist, right? And the fact that the Metropolitan Police's own figures show they use violence against black people four times more than against white people. That's not enough to win the debate. Apparently, the official Casey report showing that the Metropolitan Police is institutionally racist. That's not enough. Apparently, a personal example from the black person you've invited onto your show talking about how West Midland's police officer threatened me for reporting a racist threat against myself. If you utter those words again, we will have a problem.

[00:08:44]>> In order to protect a party whose leader goes on stage with people specifically because they have plead guilty to inciting racial hatred, an action which can only be described as protecting racism. And that black person complained to the Westmin's police about that clear political corruption within their ranks caught on camera and the Westmin police is allowing that officer to keep working as a cop proving that this is a problem at the institutional level. So, you have the statistical data from the Metropolitan Police themselves, an independent report into their racism, and a personal testimony from somebody who you have on the phone right now, and you're not willing to accept that testimony because the Westmin's police has a right to reply, but you keep interrupting me every time I keep telling you how the Westmin replied to my complaint. Namely, that they want that officer to keep working as a cop, proving that this is an institutional problem. So, I just proved that Nigel Farage's argument that the Henry Novak situation is an example of an institutional problem in the other direction, namely against white people, which is the basis of this entire debate, is utterly ludicrous. My point my point is that the the the institutional racism within police forces in the UK has been proven. And yet, and yet, and yet, and yet all you keep doing is saying that essentially everything is fine. We need to not have have diversity training. And and with the Rotherham case, as I said, if if police officers are leaving this diversity training with the understanding that if they arrest a brown or black person who's committed committed a crime that is somehow racist, then clearly the problem is they need better training. Well, what do you make, Fei, of those who say that this is essentially George Floyd in reverse?

[00:10:16]That what we've got here is you roll forward all the policies that they've put in place, as Martin says, and you end up with officers letting a white man die. The comparison the comparison with with George Floyd is is fair in the sense that yes, you have severe police mis misconduct which was not did not protect a victim on the on the ground. I I get that as a point. However, with in the case of George Floyd, it was a symptom and an example of an institutional discriminatory bias in terms of excessive force towards black people. However, in the UK and the the the Metropolitan Police, their own figures say they use force four times more against black people than white people. So in in that case it is an outlier in in terms of the the use of force. The problem in this issue as the father of the victim keeps saying it is not an issue of racism. It is an issue of murder and it is an issue of a failure a failure to do what was right and a failure to allow Henry Novak to live out the last few seconds of his life in dignity because a police officer seeing somebody say I have been stabbed repeatedly for that for for that person not to then at least check out to see if there is a wound there that is a failure of humanity. It's not about racism.

[00:11:23]Everybody made me sick during that.

[00:11:25]Farage, that police officer, the BBC, and I'm just sorry to Henry Novak's family that such major institutions of our country are completely disregarding their wishes, especially given what they've just been through. I'm Femi.

[00:11:37]Make sure you follow FP politics of Pavix as an FU. Have a great week.