Dr. Becky On Why Becoming A Mom Isn't Actually About Your Baby

Added: 2026-05-07

[00:00:00]Hi everybody. Welcome to your new episode of Tell Me I'm a good mom.

[00:00:03]Remember as I get the show off the ground, if you would leave me a rating and review, I would appreciate it so much. Every single Every single one makes a difference. Now, let's get into it. Dr. Becky Kennedy is probably the most followed parenting expert in the world right now.

[00:00:20]Founder of Good Inside, clinical psychologist, 3 million Instagram followers. Wow. Number one times New York best seller, the woman that every mom I know has either quoted or cried to at some point. She is the expert. She is the one telling you that you are doing okay. So, today I wanted to do something a little bit different. I wanted to put the expert on the other side of the microphone. Don't be nervous, Dr. Becky.

[00:00:45]Um welcome to the show. Hi. Hi. I'm so happy to be here. Oh, I'm so glad. Um first tell me what is Good Inside. I know you're doing some expansion right now, which I'm very excited about and super relevant for today's conversation.

[00:00:59]Tell me what you do.

[00:01:01]So, I'm a clinical psychologist and I'm a mom of three. Mhm. And for so many years I was sharing I guess my ideas in my private practice in that setting because after a little while in practice, things just kind of started to click and then like almost in a good way unravel where I was like, wait, I'm telling everyone how to do time outs and punishments and sticker charts and I don't know if this is right. Like >> sticker chart like a gold gold stars?

[00:01:25]Yeah, exactly. Like right and then kids end up having tantrums and I thought I was getting a sticker today and then I'm like, why am I doing these sticker charts if it's leading >> [laughter] >> to all more issues? Um but I think I had this big picture zoom out, which was just kids are born good inside. Kids are born with all the feelings and none of the skills to manage those feelings, which is why feelings come out in all types of bad behavior.

[00:01:48]And generation after generation, we just punish kids or send them to their room for not having skills yet that developmentally they couldn't have and nobody taught them. Why don't we do the same thing we do when we teach kids to read or learn a language or teach kids how to swim or play basketball? Why don't we teach them the skills they need, which not only will help them today, but actually is what helps them grow into the types of adults we all want our kids to be, resilient, confident, able to navigate the ups and downs of the world.

[00:02:18]And in the course of doing that, I realized, "Hold on, us adults, we we need some extra skill building, too, cuz a lot of us are saying, 'Well, I don't know how to do that.'" So, what if we do it all at once in a way that's never perfect? I always say at Good Inside, we do not worship the perfect parent. We don't think there is a perfect parent. So, I don't know. I'm a perfect parent. Besides you. You're, you know, you're going to throw everything. Yeah.

[00:02:40]Um but yeah, never about perfection, but just about the same things we have in every other job in the world, empowerment, learning, resources, knowing knowing you learn from your mistakes, and you can always move forward. Why don't we bring that to the world of parenting? Yeah, I've always thought about, you know, with my nieces and nephews, and now I have a 3-month-old daughter, you know, when your kid starts to first I don't even want to say misbehave, but behave in a way that is reflective of the way that they're feeling inside, and to your point, they don't know how to express it. And I always thought, "Well, why don't we just try to do a better job of explaining to them why the behavior is like wrong or should be corrected versus saying this is bad?" Yeah, and And that is the thesis here.

[00:03:19]>> Yeah, and help kids learn what they can do, right? And And I think that we've had two options in the world, punishments, time-outs, or permissive parenting. Good Inside is squarely in the middle. And if you think about something like swimming, Yeah.

[00:03:34]we teach kids how to swim. It doesn't come naturally, right? And we actually do it for a while, knowing the lessons don't immediately convert into perfect swimming behavior. And when you're in the pool with your kid, and they're still not swimming, but you're teaching them, nobody says, "Hey, Lo, you're reinforcing bad swimming behavior. Why don't you just send your kid to their room and tell them to come out when they can swim?" You'd be like, "That is that's psychotic." Like, I don't that doesn't make any sense. And so, if we think about kids' emotional behavior in the same way, they have anger, they have jealousy, they have frustration, they have disappointment, which by the way, they're going to have those feelings for the rest of their lives.

[00:04:14]But, we obviously need to help our kids learn how to manage how to manage what those feelings are and what to do. That doesn't mean the next day they're going to do it perfectly. Learning doesn't look like that anywhere, but that is the path and that's the path I think about with parents at Good Inside. Mm, I love that. Okay, and you're expanding into Good Inside pregnancy and baby?

[00:04:35]>> Yes, and and I think my favorite thing about Good Inside is how active our community and our members are. They tell us what's going on.

[00:04:41]>> for pregnancy and baby?

[00:04:42]>> Literally, they're like, "Why didn't we have this from the start? Why can't I tell You know, we all like to learn from our experience and give something a little better to the people around us who we love." So, honestly, it was member after member saying, "Okay, I have a sister who's pregnant. I have a friend who's pregnant. I have a friend with a baby.

[00:04:56]I need you to do Good Inside for that stage because that's what I want to gift. We get plenty of bottles. We get plenty of swaddles. How about emotional health of the parent and child? Like, who's doing that? Let's gift that." And we're like, "All right, let's go do it."

[00:05:11]Can you talk about the emotional health of a three-month-old?

[00:05:14]Like, what does that really mean and look like when you say "baby"? Because I have a three-month-old as I mentioned a bajillion times. Sorry.

[00:05:25]So, I guess I'm curious, is it really more about like the parents and their experience, the identity of becoming a parent, and how do you figure that out while you have a newborn? Cuz I'm curious about from your like professional POV, like when do babies gain a sense of self, and when can it start stuff like start to apply? Yeah, such a good question. You know, there's this this saying Winnicott said um very old school psychoanalyst, there's no such thing as a baby, right? Meaning but meaning there's a baby and a mom.

[00:06:00]Yeah. Like a baby doesn't even realize that they're like a separate being with a sense of self for a long time because they're in relationship with their caregiver. Right? And we continue to be in relationship and in some ways our whole journey is about How do I figure out who I am separately and in relationship to the people I'm close with? That's still what we're trying to figure out in our adult lives, right?

[00:06:23]And so I think when it comes to when I was talking about emotional health, number one, you know, we respond not to our kids' behavior and not to our behavior but to the story we tell ourselves about behavior.

[00:06:37]And I think generation after generation of at least new mom and new dad, we continue to be surprised by things that are in some ways completely predictable and normal. It's just nobody ever told us this is what it was going to be like.

[00:06:50]So much of our emotional health is around that, right? What is it going to feel like when my baby doesn't latch?

[00:06:55]What is it going to feel like when I'm struggling with breastfeeding if I'm breastfeeding? What is it going to feel like when I hear three parents talk about their babies doing a 5-hour stretch and my baby's up every hour?

[00:07:04]Like we know oh my goodness what goes on inside of us is so that's the kind of stuff I'm going to get into. Intense.

[00:07:10]That's right. So then what we're able to say to ourselves and then the clarity we can have around okay, here's what's actually going on, here's what it means, here's what it doesn't mean, here's what's normal, here's what's concerning, and here's how I can stay grounded with my feet on the ground as the new parent through as much of that process as is possible. I think that that's the area I love to kind of be in. How did you do as a new parent?

[00:07:33]You have three kids.

[00:07:35]I'll talk right now, right? So I mean I think part of my passion with working with new moms and you know and dads and people who are pregnant, which is something I've done for decades, um was how much I knew and how big of a gap that had with how everything felt.

[00:07:54]Right?

[00:07:54]>> Yeah. And actually how much did feel surprising. I was like, "Why didn't Why didn't anyone tell me this, you know?" Because it wasn't about the milestones. Like I knew a lot about the milestones and the rolling over and the neck strength and signs of torticollis, like all of this very, very clinical stuff, but how it felt in my body, no. And then how much my my kind of old stuff got kicked up. You know, so if I take my first.

[00:08:27]So this is something I said to my husband maybe when my son was 4 or 5 days old. I go to him, "I really think I only need to sleep 4 hours a night."

[00:08:40]He was like, "Oh my god, oh my goodness, like you've you're you're gone, you know?"

[00:08:44]>> Yeah. I am such a doer. I'd love to be active. And I didn't realize, I think going into motherhood, how much that not only was a preference, but in some ways it was like a identity for me that was going to crash with the reality of new parenthood.

[00:09:00]>> Yeah. I feel like the best it gets when you're a new mom is like your house looks the same as it did the end of the day in the beginning. So it looks like you've accomplished nothing even though you're like that was literally the hardest day of my whole [ __ ] life, you know? And so the first couple days I think I didn't know like how much my body was going to fight that. Like though I was making biscotti.

[00:09:19]It's just like That's That's ridiculous.

[00:09:21]>> Like that's a really good question. 5 days after you had a kid? I was like really into it when at my end stage of pregnancy.

[00:09:28]>> you're such a doer and you were so committed to the bit of being a doer.

[00:09:31]Yeah, [laughter] like I was like, "Why bake something once when you could do twice baked biscotti?" Like I don't know what was And then my baby came and I was like still I'm going to do I think it was a representation of I'm going to do the exact same thing after as I did before.

[00:09:45]I'm going to be able to keep that up. I can do it. Okay, so by day six my body crashed in a way that I think my body was like if you're not going to take my normal signals telling you to slow down, I'll up the game and I will let you know in a really dramatic way. I was on my couch shaking shaking and I had had a emergency C-section, okay? And so they had to do it really fast to the point that my doctor was like we didn't even fully prep the way we usually did. So when I was shaking, she was like I just hope this isn't some post-op situation. I ended up in the ER, right? Like turned out my body was just exhausted and I think it was my body's way of saying this whole 4 hours of sleep thing Biscotti thing you've got going on, no.

[00:10:35]Like your body needs to slow down, you need to rest, you need to listen. This is a different stage of your life and I think that that's just one of a million moments. I was like oh, like I just wasn't prepared for what it would be like. I think it's Look.

[00:10:52]Having your new baby is incredible.

[00:10:53]Nobody can deny that, but I think that there is such a shock identity shift that happens immediately when you give birth and for me at least, there's a lot of fear that happened around that. I didn't think I recognized it as as fear at the time, but now that I'm a few more weeks out from that, I think that you're just so deeply afraid of losing who you are and not quite understanding the person that you are becoming or have become, right? Because my thing and I've talked about it a little bit is I like started working again right away. Like I own a business, we have an office in Soho, our products are in all these retail stores, and I was like, I can't like be off Slack for more than a couple of days. I own a business, right? I started a podcast like right before I was about to give birth. Like I'm a crazy person. You know what I mean? And I think it truly is that it's very uncomfortable to go through such a shocking identity shift, and so you try to cling on to the past and who you were, and it takes time to to move forward into the new identity of motherhood. That's right. Yeah. And I think look, we all us like type A-ish people, we prepare a lot. Like we we read all the things about the baby. Okay, so we're like, my baby is the size of a cherry. My baby is the size of a mango.

[00:12:17]We're like, I'm so glad I know the fruit size. It's not useful at all, but it but I love it. I did that. You I'm sure you too, you research everything on your registry, like to the nth degree.

[00:12:27]>> And as you get close to having a baby, which a baby is a huge deal. It's true, the thing we spend a minuscule or zero number of minutes on is this is the biggest identity change of my life. It's not about the person before is gone. No, she matters. And this is a new phase, and probably the in-between phase is going to be messy. Like I don't know about you, I changed my last name when I got married, and I just remember thinking like, I don't feel like my maiden name, I don't feel like my married name. I'm in this like weird in-between who am I zone, and yeah, becoming a mom, becoming a dad, what what is that going to be like for me almost separate from the bottles and the rolling over and the feeding. I think that's that's a huge it's a huge thing.

[00:13:16]Yeah, I think for me that has been one of the biggest feelings or takeaways. It it I thought you know, when I was pregnant, I was like so obsessed with the baby stuff to your point, right? And like the research and everything. And as I gave birth and like went through those first weeks, I was shocked at how inward I turned, and I felt a lot of guilt at how much I was being inward. And I would love to talk to you about that because I know that you talk a lot about mom guilt.

[00:13:44]>> Yes. Generally for I think kids a little bit older, but now mom guilt for newborns, which is like every mom experiences having a new baby differently, right?

[00:13:54]And I also had a very complicated postpartum situation, which I mentioned to you briefly, but I had retained placenta. I only had surgery a week and a half ago. It turns out I had a severe uterine infection as a result of the retained placenta. So I did not have a normal postpartum, even though there is no normal postpartum. It turns out I was very sick, and my body was not allowed to recover and heal properly on a standard timeline. Like 3 months So I had my surgery, and I was looking at the post-op notes, and my uterus was 10 weeks gestational age size when they did my surgery 3 months postpartum. And your uterus is supposed to be back to normal size 6 weeks postpartum. Wow. So like it has just continued on for me in all of these bizarre ways.

[00:14:44]And I understand to a certain degree I think that's why I turned so inward cuz I think my like body was signaling to me like you need to help yourself or you're going to actually die.

[00:14:55]But like talk to me about the mom guilt because it can be really overwhelming sometimes. Yes. Thank you for sharing all that. And I think there's a couple things that start pinging in my brain.

[00:15:05]Number one, from so many moms what I hear is I was shocked that the first number of days, first weeks, however long, the vast majority of my thoughts were about myself. Yeah. Right. It's shocking. And then And then if we And And again, we're surprised because no one tells us this. Okay? Right? You think it's like, "Oh, my baby Exactly.

[00:15:26]But you're like, "Actually, my vagina is like torn in a million pieces and like that's obviously calling my attention."

[00:15:32]>> Correct. [laughter] >> Correct.

[00:15:33]Like that's actually what's happening.

[00:15:35]So, you can't think about anything but your vagina and your breasts that feel like you're like, "I don't I didn't know they would feel like this when milk came in." Milk came in was like a milestone.

[00:15:44]>> through my teeth.

[00:15:45]>> Yeah, like so hard, so uncomfortable, painful. Like I thought it was going to be a beautiful moment and Right. Right?

[00:15:50]And then you're looking at your house and you're like, "Oh my goodness, those bottles that have to be washed or those pump parts or whatever I'm doing." And it feels like such a big deal and then you're telling yourself a story of I used to be someone who had things together. And you're like, >> Yeah. And I've been a parent for like 36 hours. Correct.

[00:16:04]>> [laughter] >> Right? And it's going to be like this forever.

[00:16:06]Right?

[00:16:07]>> Yeah. And so, I just want to normalize that if you think about what happens when you give birth. First off, the baby. Yes, but let's just put the baby in the baby's safe bassinet for right now.

[00:16:19]Okay.

[00:16:20]If someone said to you, "You're about to have a major surgery."

[00:16:27]Talk to me, how are you going to feel after the surgery? Who's going to take care of you after the surgery? What foods will feel good to have in your house around the surgery? What is it like when you feel vulnerable and weak in your body? Is that something knowing whatever you know about yourself? You're like, "Yeah, I'm going to be good with that." Or "Ooh, I'm someone who likes to get things done and get around. That part's going to be really, really hard."

[00:16:46]What is it going to be like after surgery if you've to take care of another human being while you're recovering from a major surgery.

[00:16:53]We don't ask people to do that with any other surgery. Can you imagine your friend who's having major surgery and then you're like, "Oh, by the way, you're going to take care of another human." Like that of course >> Right away. I mean, of course you're thinking about yourself. You just went through Forget just the surgery. Massive hormonal changes are happening and a new identity. You birthed a new identity and your vagina is hurting and your breasts feel weird, and you're exhausted, and your hormones are changing like crazy, and we don't talk about that.

[00:17:23]>> We don't.

[00:17:24]>> So, the guilt I think comes, and I think this is just a powerful framework in general. We don't respond to moments. We don't respond to behavior. We respond to the story we tell ourselves. And when we're surprised by something, especially as women, we tend to tell ourselves a story of I'm doing something wrong. Mhm. Or it shouldn't be like this.

[00:17:47]Which leads to guilt. Yeah. And it's interesting because I always think we can't change the hard, but we can change the alone, and we can change the surprise.

[00:17:57]Changing the alone and the surprise to me, like that's the thing that gets me out of bed. Right? Because the hard will still be the hard, but if you don't pile on the fear that you're the only one, if you don't pile on, wait, I think this is weird because no one talked about this happening, and I researched everything, and no one said it was going to feel like this, or I was going to think like this. If you can remove those elements, hard feels hard instead of impossible or a really dark abyss. Yeah, instead of bad.

[00:18:20]>> Bad, instead of bad.

[00:18:21]>> wrong.

[00:18:22]>> That's right. And so, I think the guilt, right?

[00:18:26]Guilt I think is an is a misunderstood word, especially when you talk about mom guilt, whether it's mom guilt from day one, or mom guilt with a teenager.

[00:18:33]To me, guilt is a feeling we have when we act out of alignment with our values.

[00:18:38]Which is a really important feeling.

[00:18:40]When you act out of alignment.

[00:18:42]>> Yeah. Not when you feel out of alignment. Well, it could be either. So, if I'm feeling out of alignment with my values, maybe I'm looking at the course of my day thinking like I didn't do the things that I value, or right? Or I had a day of kind of like yelling at everyone, or being snappy. I don't actually really like to treat people that way, right? Um but what's really interesting about mom guilt is so many times we say, "Oh, I have that mom guilt."

[00:19:07]When we'd also say, "Wait, I'm not really acting out of alignment with my values. So, like what is this feeling?

[00:19:12]Maybe it's something else. Right? I think we see that classically our kid is older and, you know, you're with them so much and then one night you're going out to dinner with a friend and they're like, "You never put me to bed." and you're like, "I literally always put you to bed." and I feel guilty. Maybe that's not guilt. Maybe I'm just feeling my kids kind of distress and I'm taking it on.

[00:19:31]>> I understand what you're saying. Okay.

[00:19:33]>> I think for new parenthood, I think we can feel that guilt when we have a thought or we have a feeling or even though it's inside our body we're a little looking over our shoulder like, "Is this like a normal feeling? Good good parents don't think this. Good parents don't feel this." And then I think we impose that guilt on ourselves. Yeah, you know, there was a in the early days I had to go to a birthday dinner. Oh, no, I had my friends scheduled my first mom's out dinner.

[00:20:05]My friends. And I was so excited and then the night of I felt >> Yeah. so guilty for leaving the house.

[00:20:14]>> Yeah.

[00:20:15]My husband was at home being a dad. He was like, "Go."

[00:20:20]I felt so heavily guilty for leaving the house and that's what you're talking about, right?

[00:20:26]>> Yeah. Do you remember the thoughts that were popping up or >> I just >> [laughter] >> I remember coming home and like starting to sob in the back of an Uber. I also had like 1.5 martinis, which was a mistake as it turns out. Like so early postpartum. But I just sobbed like, "I just feel so bad for being out and for enjoying myself. I feel bad that I left the house at all. I feel bad that I did something for myself. I feel bad that I saw my friends.

[00:20:54]>> Yeah. That I didn't place, you know, the baby and my baby's needs above all other needs, which is generally what I do 90% of the day. You know what I mean? But it was even this small thing I did for myself that my husband was so excited for me to go do and I was so excited to go do until I was doing it and then I like had a like a little meltdown about it. Look, I I think there's just so much there, right? So, okay, I've been a person, an individual person for a lot of years now.

[00:21:21]>> Yeah. Now I have this baby I'm this baby's mom. I love this baby so much. I want to take care of this baby's needs. If you think about that, that's a hard new stage. How do I balance taking care of my own needs, which I've probably figured out to some degree for a couple decades?

[00:21:37]>> Yeah.

[00:21:37]While I also really care about taking care of this baby's needs, who's different than a husband cuz this baby's dependent on me in a very different way.

[00:21:45]That That's hard to figure out. That's not like a button we press and we're like figured it out. It's a constant negotiation that your body is also creating brand new circuitry for. Mhm.

[00:21:55]How do I say goodbye to my husband and baby when part of me wants to be there for now, part of me long-term knows it's good for me to have things once in a while where I'm with my friends, but it doesn't actually feel good in the moment even if it's good for me long-term.

[00:22:08]That's a whole new circuit to build in your body. You've never You've never done that before. Right. Okay, I think yeah.

[00:22:14]>> Right? And so I've never done that before.

[00:22:17]>> done that before. Like I think we forget when we have a baby, my baby's never done this before. Whatever it is, every day is the first day for something. But that is also the first day for us figuring out so many situations with my baby. How do I give my baby food? How does my baby sleep? How do I get out of the house? How do I take a walk? How do I put a baby in a carrier? How do I put a screaming baby in a carrier? How do I walk somewhere when it's raining out when I really have to do something? How do I go see my friends when the baby's awake? How do I go see my friends when the baby has to eat? Like all of these are brand new things and our body, when we're doing anything brand new, tends to have a lot of feelings about it. Yeah.

[00:22:55]Yeah.

[00:22:57]The Wow. Yeah.

[00:23:00]This is a great therapy session It's as a podcast. What's coming up for you?

[00:23:05]>> [laughter] >> Where is your mind going? Um I saw something you know, you're talking to me about like mom guilt and it's like not real. We're like absorbing you know, the feelings of our kids and you know, that is maybe the wrong thing to do in the situation. I guess I would like to know how to reframe that and maybe you just did for me the reminder that it's like the first time for everything. So you have to cut yourself a break, but something that I want to talk to you about cuz I keep seeing it on social media. We have a balcony and we live on a high floor and I'm not concerned about hurting my baby, but I'm concerned about my baby falling off the balcony. Yep.

[00:23:38]But the baby's not going to fall off the balcony. The baby can't move. Like the baby is immobile, but like I keep having this thought.

[00:23:44]>> Obsessive type of thought.

[00:23:45]>> Talk yeah, talk to me about obsessive type of thinking and it doesn't even have to apply to just baby stuff because I have found through my own anxiety disorder a touch of OCD that obsessive thinking like means that you're probably not going to do the thing. Totally.

[00:24:02]>> talk to us about that especially for this audience?

[00:24:05]>> Obsessive thoughts are very very common postpartum. Right? And again so let's get to why and just to remember it's rarely a thought or a feeling that gives us a problem as much as the story we tell ourselves about what that thought or feeling means. So let's do all of that. So there's a lot of reasons for obsessive thoughts. Number one, you're doing something brand new and you're doing something that you haven't ever really cared so much about. You're like I love this baby so much and it's all new.

[00:24:35]Your brain is trying to make sense of that and your brain is oriented to keep you safe and to keep your baby safe. One of the ways we keep ourselves safe and we keep other people we care about safe is to actually think a lot about danger.

[00:24:47]I know that sounds weird, but we do, right? Like when when your baby becomes a toddler, you're going to hold their hand to make sure they don't run into the New York City street. You wouldn't do that unless you knew that cars can hurt people, right? So, you're thinking about danger as a way to keep safe. And so, part of what's happening in that postpartum period is you're like, wait, there's a balcony. And And maybe not you, but I've worked with many moms who say, it's so weird. I can't believe this. I'm going to tell you this. Like, I'm thinking, what if I threw my baby off the balcony? I don't want to throw my baby off the balcony.

[00:25:18]What does THAT MEAN THAT I'M thinking about it, [laughter] right? Your brain is trying to process this baby who's dependent on you for safety, your immense love and care, and all of the threats all around you all at once. And sometimes the obsessive thoughts, it is your brain almost on overdrive planning to make sure everyone's safe.

[00:25:39]It just doesn't sound warm and fuzzy.

[00:25:41]So, that's like a lot of the reasons why it's happening. Some people also are just more prone to that. They are like, I've had obsessive thoughts in the past, right?

[00:25:48]>> Yeah. Then, also how we talk to ourselves about what the thoughts do and don't mean, also has a big impact on how much power the thoughts go go from there, right?

[00:26:00]All I said to you today was, don't look at the ceiling. Don't look at the ceiling. Don't look at the ceiling.

[00:26:03]Exactly. I can't even I'm looking at the ceiling, right? So, let's talk about like what it means and doesn't mean.

[00:26:10]Number one, what it really means is that you care.

[00:26:12]Mhm. That's really powerful. It really means you care. You're thinking about this a lot because you really care about your baby's safety, which means one of the things with these thoughts is we want to move from kind of the content of the thought and more to like a zoomed out noticing the nature of kind of these thoughts.

[00:26:31]So, I'm not getting so lost in the content, right? Like you said, a lot of people who have these obsessive thoughts, they don't act on them. They're right.

[00:26:38]Number two, one of one just a big principle is we want to be able to talk to or kind of make friends with any feeling or thought in our body.

[00:26:47]As soon as a feeling or a thought feels wrong or dangerous, it has increasing power. It's kind of like the annoying friend at the party you don't really want to talk to and you avoid and then you're like, "Oh there there there there. Let's say hi to that friend.

[00:26:59]They're annoying." But like, there's something to that that it kind of simmers down. So, I'll give you a visual where let's say you're in the car, okay?

[00:27:06]You're the driver of your car. The car is your body. Like you are in charge.

[00:27:09]And the truth is we all have various passengers in the backseat. And one passenger might be this obsessive thought falling off falling off falling off.

[00:27:20]Two things we tend to do that make that even louder, right? Is we try to get it out of the car. We try to stop thinking that.

[00:27:28]We kind of try to throw the thought [laughter] out. Stop thinking that. I shouldn't think that. Good parents don't think that. What's wrong with me? Stop thinking that. If you think about a thought that you can't fight cuz it's in your body and then you're trying to actually tell it to go away. Like the friend is at the party. They're already there, right? So, there is a little bit you can't beat them so join them.

[00:27:44]Or we tell ourselves a story about what this means about us. I'm a horrible parent, right? And now of a sudden I've attached a lot of shame to it which tends to make it stickier actually.

[00:27:53]>> Yeah, of course.

[00:27:53]>> Right? The truth is when a thought or a feeling is kind of a passenger in our backseat, doesn't give us a lot of problems.

[00:28:01]The problem is when we turn our head and we're like, "Go away." Now we're like, "Hello."

[00:28:05]You're trying to drive the car, right?

[00:28:07]And then actually in some ways the thoughts have to get louder and more powerful to try to get our attention.

[00:28:13]Right.

[00:28:13]>> So, there's like actually a couple things we can do. Number one, of course, if anyone is like, "This is like obsessing for me and I can't think of anything else." There's so many professionals who are great at helping this. But just as even one step, say hi to the thought. It's actually such a gift.

[00:28:27]Hi obsessive thought. Hi obsessive thought.

[00:28:30]>> as you say hi to a thought, you're establishing something. There's me and the thought. Ooh. Now instead of the thought being me, there's me low and there's this thought I'm having. That inherently changes the impact of a thought. Scared of the thought.

[00:28:42]>> Right? Yeah. So, you could say, "Hi thought about the balcony. I see you.

[00:28:47]And then, step two, remind yourself what it actually means.

[00:28:52]This thought means I really care about my role as a mom and keeping my baby safe, and I really care about my baby.

[00:28:59]And then you can say to yourself, yeah, those things are true. Yeah. Right? And then step three is a little bit This thought is a part of me, not all of me, or you can actually say, hey thought, I'm going to kind of ask you to step back, go back to the back [snorts] seat of the minivan over there, right? You can kind of ride in this car and I'm the driver. Right, it's interesting. I've never heard about like talk- talking to the thoughts.

[00:29:20]>> Yeah. And being like, hey. Yeah, what's up? Because a lot of us are told to reason ourselves away from the thought.

[00:29:27]Yeah.

[00:29:28]>> Here's why I can have a different thought. I actually have found that for a lot of people that that actually leads to the thoughts having more power, cuz then the next time it comes up, I'm like, wait, I'm supposed to not have this thought. Well, I think what's interesting that I have been taught about this that I'm hearing differently from you, which actually makes a lot more sense to me, is that the content of the thought is irrelevant.

[00:29:49]I have been told that time and time again, but maybe you're saying that the content of the thought is not irrelevant. Not that like the scary thing itself is real, but that the meaning behind it or why you're thinking it is valid. Like, I'm scared of the balcony because I love my baby and I want to keep my baby safe. Nobody has ever taken it that next step for me of I'm thinking it because I love my baby and I want to keep my baby safe. And that really helps me neutralize the thought. All right, so the next thing I want to talk about today, we just took our first trip with Nell, our first plane ride. I was so nervous. I even posted about how nervous I was.

[00:30:28]Here's the thing about doing cross country travel with a baby. You find out really fast which gear is actually pulling its weight and which isn't. And Nuna held up, my friends. The Pipa Urban car seat is the difference. No base required. You just clip it into any car, which means ride-shares from the airport were a complete non-event. Grandma's car, installed in like seconds. The car seat that actually moves with you is the only kind that works when you're traveling, and the Swivel, we are obsessed with our Swivel. It folds fast, it navigated the airport, it handled every single sidewalk and curb on the other end of the trip without complaint.

[00:31:10]Walking around with Nell honestly felt like a normal activity and not like a crazy logistics project. Here's the part that I keep coming back to, Nuna's entire car seat line is FR-free, no added fire retardant chemicals, which get routinely linked to health concerns and are almost never talked about in the baby gear conversation. That is not a small detail, that is the detail. If you're in that new mom phase, anything that makes life easier is worth it. Go to nunababy.com to check out everything or pop into your local Nordstrom to test everything out.

[00:31:45]So, we are 4 months in with Nell and this is the part that nobody talks about. Well, I guess I kind of talk about it.

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[00:33:18]Availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan. Mhm. Somebody put up this clip um about moms, and maybe it was new moms specifically, having like weird thoughts obsessively, but like not acting on them. Yeah. But being afraid that they're going to like do something bad to their baby. What if I hurt my baby?

[00:33:41]>> Yes. Because with OCD obsessive thinking, the thoughts don't make sense.

[00:33:46]That's right.

[00:33:46]>> So the guidance of, "Just ignore the content. It doesn't make sense. It doesn't matter." has never really landed with me because I'm like, "This is a weird ass thought, but I keep thinking it, so it must mean something." That that's right. And so what you're really doing in what this little exercise you're doing now is you're you're honoring the thought. You're saying hi, and then you're just changing the story.

[00:34:04]You're changing the meaning. Like, "Okay, I'm telling me to check the stove over and over." Wait, it's true. I'm a very conscientious person. Yeah.

[00:34:12]>> Because to some degree the checking is like your body proving to yourself that you're a conscientious person. You know you're a conscientious person. You are a good mom.

[00:34:20]>> Yeah, exactly, right? No, I know that.

[00:34:22]That is true. And I can do this other thing, right? So yeah, I think that that's really powerful in general, right? Like obsessive thoughts or not.

[00:34:31]Like, all like all I can do is think about the times I used to go on vacation and had a more spontaneous life. Well, that makes sense. I did like spontaneity. Okay. And this is the season of my life where it's not particularly available to me.

[00:34:45]Right.

[00:34:45]>> And it doesn't mean that I'm a bad mom for thinking about that. So, that's right. I'm kind of saying hi to the thought and I'm changing the story around it.

[00:34:51]>> Yeah, that makes sense. You have been doing so much work on this. You basically tell parents that they're good enough. Like, do you somebody to tell you that? Or does like Does knowing the whole framework mean that you are exempt from that?

[00:35:06]>> No. No.

[00:35:08]You know, and I think another version of this is whether I listen to my own advice all the time. And you know, things like that.

[00:35:13]>> you?

[00:35:14]>> Like, yes and no. Like, yes and do I follow the method? Some percentage of the time, but what I think is interesting is built into the method of Good Inside is repair. That's the most important thing. So, sure, I follow the method and do the thing. I follow the method when I yell. And then I follow the method when I repair. Like, it's all fitting into the method. This is like, I think we're I'm I'm an expert in imperfect parenting. Okay, that's so sure. Yes, I follow the method of imperfect parenting.

[00:35:41]>> [laughter] >> But, yeah, just the other day, look, I have two kids in this like tween teen stage. And even with everything I know about it, like, it's it's really hard. I was texting two of my friends last night who helped me in different ways about this blow up that happened that I I I knew intellectually what was happening. Separation and independence and and emotionally, I was like, oh my god, like, it's so hard. And so, yes, texting my friend my co-founder Ericka was actually, you know, responding with things that It's funny, maybe in theory, quote, Dr. Becky said, but Becky the mom in the moment had no access to in the moment. And so, yes, I think we need information, but But need community. We all do. We need community.

[00:36:27]We need to be reminded of our goodness.

[00:36:28]We need each other and I need that as much as anyone else. Honestly, that's really nice and refreshing to hear.

[00:36:35]The internet is so interesting with all of the experts on the internet.

[00:36:40]Because I always wonder, I'm like, how is that expert like really doing behind all the stuff that they say and they believe and it's hard to be like not perfect. That's the wrong thing to say, but like it's hard to be perfect and good all the time. And I'm I'm always just very curious about what really is going on behind the scenes.

[00:37:01]Not just with experts, with celebrities, with everybody, right? Like everybody puts on this insane front on the internet and part of what I have been doing through my postpartum is trying to do the exact opposite of that.

[00:37:13]>> Yeah. Be like, this is actually really hard and it doesn't mean that I don't love my baby any less. It just is like it's hard and women, moms are really resonating with that in a way that I have like not ever experienced before with what I make and put out into the world. And it feels really healing and necessary for myself, but I think also for like everyone that's listening to this show, right? Like why is this stuff Why are we surprised by this? Like nobody is talking about this stuff.

[00:37:44]>> no one does. And you know, look, I think about this kind of good inside principle, kind of quote the method about separating behavior from identity.

[00:37:52]That's actually so much of what good inside is built on, right? So we we collapse those two things all the time. We see a kid who hits and we're like, that's a bad kid. It's a good kid, identity, who is hitting, bad behavior.

[00:38:04]Okay, that gap allows us to say, well, what do I need to do as a parent? What skill does this kid need, etc. But we collapse those two things on ourselves and other adults all the time. So, right? I yell I yell at my kid, I'm a monster. I messed up my kid forever.

[00:38:16]Whoa, that was a moment. That was a moment. That was not an identity. Like what just happened there? And now I tell myself an identity story.

[00:38:22]By the way, all my behaviors from there is actually not even about my yelling.

[00:38:26]It's about telling myself the story that I messed up my kid forever. And when it comes to new parenthood, I think we do the same. We see this picture online and we do our brain short circuits as it does. Oh my goodness, that parent has it all together. That parent figured it all out. Their marriage is going perfectly well as their baby, you know, tries to figure out sleep and this person is able to write a book at the same time. Whatever whatever we see. And I guess I've always Maybe an advantage I have is I've never assumed behavior as identity. But that also means when I see someone's story, I'm like, "What is going on in that woman's basement? Let's talk about that."

[00:39:03]>> since you were young, you never assumed that? Or is that like learned through, you know, like your clinical expertise?

[00:39:10]>> about my clinical expertise or um maybe it's just the things I'm fascinated by and what brought me into psychology. Like, why do good people do bad things? And I don't just mean extreme bad things. But like, why do we all do not so great things? Like there's such a gap always. And And I guess I've found the hard way. It's everything is learned the hard way. No, it wasn't always there.

[00:39:32]Um the gap between how you like to think about yourself and your latest behavior.

[00:39:38]>> Right. Um that gap is painful, but that gap is like where we learn about ourselves.

[00:39:44]>> this has really become your life's work, right? Like the difference between behavior and identity. Yeah.

[00:39:49]>> Which All the light bulbs in my head are going off. I'm like, "Oh my god. Oh my god. Oh my god. My behavior. My identity. Oh my god."

[00:39:55]Uh How did you I I I could I could sense that like you've been curious about this forever, but how did it crystallize for you that like this is your thing?

[00:40:03]>> I mean, I don't know if it ever crystallized as this is my thing. I'm someone who just kind of puts my one foot in front of the other and kind of does the next thing and tends not to think like, "Is this my thing?" I just keep moving. So, but I remember in private practice. So, at that point I I'd always just found people interesting. That's why I became a psychologist. When I realized that trying to understand people could become a profession, I was like, "That's crazy.

[00:40:27]I mean, I got to do that profession. I love talking to people and learning about their families and where they came from and the systems around them and their culture." I've always loved that.

[00:40:35]And so, after grad school when I started my private practice, I did a lot of parenting work based on everything I was taught. Punishments, time-outs, sticker charts, and I I didn't have skepticism at first. I was like, "This is amazing.

[00:40:48]This is amazing cuz it's so linear." So, your left brain loves it. Reward the good, get more of the good, punish the bad, extinguish the bad. Like, that's how it was talked about. It was kind of missed that these were humans.

[00:41:00]Um but there was a time in my private practice where I was teaching parents how to give a time-out.

[00:41:07]And I just remember my body was like, "No. Like, this is not the don't like. I mean, no like."

[00:41:15]>> You know.

[00:41:16]And it had happened for months. And in this one session, honestly, the truth of it is that feeling just got so big, I could not say the words. Like, the dissonance was so intense because this family, I remember it. Their older kid was in a hitting phase. They just had a new baby. And I kind of just knew a new baby literally rocks a toddler's world. A toddler's like, "This is the world. Okay, a new baby like, what else could change? Is Is the world about to self-destruct?" Right? And so, they're hitting cuz they're completely out of control. And usually we only say weird things to a toddler like, "You're going to love every moment." No, they're not.

[00:41:52]They're definitely not going to love every moment. Again, they're surprised then, right? And then they think something's wrong with them. And Right.

[00:41:58]>> And I remember like, I was like, I I'm going to tell the parents to send their kid away? And I've always thought I know. And then we do this thing where we're like, "Well, if you don't do that, it's permissive." There is so much between sending a kid away and like throwing a kid a circus party. Like I'm not going to send throw a party your head and get the anger out. No, but there's so much in between. Yeah.

[00:42:19]>> And I just honestly in my practice started to trust that uncomfortable feeling enough to walk down the road further and be like and I said to this family I was like I'm sorry. I actually don't really know what to tell you I was about to go into a time out but I don't really believe that um and it was so awkward. But I think that gave me permission to keep exploring and then to really again have a new approach that's about hold on this kid is in pain this kid is struggling this kid has things they need to learn.

[00:42:50]Let's forget being permissive. I'm zero percent permissive. Let's just do the same thing we do in basketball. Let's teach kids how to make layups. So it's like teach this kid how to anticipate and manage anger and frustration. Yeah, this the swimming class analogy is a really good one that I'm going to remember for a long time. Well, I really like people that live in the in between.

[00:43:09]That's where I like to live. I don't like to live on any side of the spectrum. It's very uncomfortable and in those extreme places for me. Can I say one more thing I'll see if they use it cuz I think it's really interesting without it. Okay.

[00:43:22]So the name of your podcast like always struck me because if I think about behavior and identity >> Yeah.

[00:43:29]a little trick I use all the time with parents, right? Is let's take all those things in the first number of months.

[00:43:35]You tell me if they my baby's not sleeping. My baby's crying and I don't know why. My baby you know, isn't eating in the way that I want. My baby's vomiting and I have no idea whatever it is, right? What happens is so easily we start telling ourselves the story. I don't know how to do this. It's not supposed to be that hard, right?

[00:43:53]And if I go back to the name of your podcast and how much overlap we have starting the sentence I'm a good mom who and filling in the blank with the thing that makes you spiral is a sentence that forces your body to separate your good be your good identity from a hard moment. I'm a good mom who's struggling with feeding. I'm a good mom who doesn't know what to do right now.

[00:44:17]I'm a good mom whose baby is crying and I have no idea why. I'm a good mom who's fantasizing about my pre-child life. I'm a good mom who feels a lot of resentment in my partnership right now. What whatever it is, all of those things that you fill in the blank with usually start to convince our brain something's wrong with us.

[00:44:34]But if we start that sentence with I'm a good mom who, it's like we've already pre-identified the good identity and then the behavior can live with a lot less shame and blame.

[00:44:44]Um so this has been particularly fruitful and I think that what you do is really genius. So congratulations.

[00:44:50]Amazing. Um everybody this was today's episode. Please go check out Dr. Becky.

[00:44:56]If you send this episode to your group chat or even just one person you know, our good mom community grows for the better everybody.

[00:45:05]Uh Follow the show on Apple, subscribe on YouTube and of course every comment, review and rating truly helps. Dr. Becky, where can everybody find you?

[00:45:13]Come to Good Inside. Yeah, come to goodinside.com.

[00:45:16]And I think what I'm so excited about is this approach which I think yes it's out there around toddlers and older kids which really I think what our approach is about is helping kids grow and and helping parents return. I think that right? And to have that right from the start to say I can show up in pregnancy in the first couple months in a way where I'm not running myself into the ground.

[00:45:38]I kind of know the whole range of feelings and thoughts that are actually normal. I'm not telling myself a story all the time that I'm an awful parent where I actually feel empowered. Yeah.

[00:45:47]Right? Yes, your baby in the first number of years is kind of wiring their body for the all the years ahead.

[00:45:54]When we transition to becoming a parent, we are starting a new identity. Right.

[00:45:58]And so to start out that that identity with a feeling of okay, I can do this.

[00:46:03]This is normal. I know what to expect. I feel empowered. That shapes our own parenting journey and that's what I'm so excited about for Good Inside Baby. I love that. Well, congratulations on the expansion. I can't wait to see all the new content and be a consumer of it cuz like I need it right now as a new mom.

[00:46:20]>> This has been great. [music] >> Awesome. Thanks for today.