In tube amplifier design, proper layout is critical for minimizing hum; the key principle is to orient transformer laminations at 90 degrees to each other and maximize distance between power components and sensitive input stages, as electromagnetic induction follows the relationship proportional to cosine(theta)/d³, where theta is the angle between laminations and d is the distance between components.
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Tube amp build: revise layout to fix humAdded:
a little bit here, but it's time to bite the bullet and move some major components. That is the iron and the rectifier to more closely mimic the Beaver Valley layout. Can't exactly limit it. the tube orientations, the tube placements are different, but in the sense of where the where the output transformers are, where the power transformer is, where the rectifier is, where the choke is, and I guess you know where under the hood the uh the major filter capacitors in this in the case of the Beaver Valley, I've actually got filter capacitors in the original can recanned. You know, I took out the old capacitor gunk and put in new capacitors. Anyway, um so it's pretty major re vis revision of the layout here. Not only that, so if power if the power transformer is not here, where am I going to put it?
I'm going to put it over here. That's where it originally was.
But the power input is here. And if I'm going to put the output transformers over here, then let me get this plugged in.
If the power if the output transformers are going to be over here, then then I can't be having the power input right here. I need to move it over here to where the out where the power transformer is going to be. So, these need to move over here. This needs to move back over to its original position.
This needs to move out of its original position over to here somewhere. And then the choke, which is under the chassis right now, mounted uh mounted right there.
That's I'm going to probably put that on top of the chassis, you know, somewhere near the rectifier tube over here. So if I put rectifier tube say here and I could put the choke like right here or something like that.
So it's a pretty major redo. I mean basically the only thing that's going to stay the same is the circuitry and layout of the sound circuit. But all the power stuff needs to move and the out locations of the outputs need to move.
So this is something I didn't want to do but I you know I just the more I look at this. Okay. So why don't I just play around with power transformer layout or orientation to see if that'll have a beneficial effect. And the thing is like the when I tried that I got shorts and I've started uh blowing fuses and um because something something bad happened when I when I dislocated the uh the whatchamacallit the the the [ __ ] strip that's attached here.
And I don't know if I might have, you know, I might have ruined some components. I'm going to need to look into that. But in order to do that, I need to make room. I need to rip stuff out.
And as long as I'm needing to do that kind of ripping stuff up, I should just bite the bullet, fix this fundamental error in layout that I made at the very beginning.
So that's where I'm going with this. Uh, I still don't have the stream up on my laptop. So, let me get that going and uh and get down to business here.
I am live apparently. They have no nobody's actually tuned in yet, but you know, maybe this will be reposted. Maybe you're seeing it after the fact.
And if so, that's what we're doing here.
But sorry for I might try to make some mumblings.
You know, if you're wondering, I guess I don't know if you're wondering or not.
It's been a while since I I was doing live streams on this on the subject of this building amp testing, etc. And um just kind of stopped doing those for a bit.
And why? Because I was needing to have a good long think about what the next step was and I was not liking the answer that I was coming up with, which is the answer I'm fighting finally biting the bullet on now.
So, that's that's my deal. I I didn't want to do this because it's going to be a major pain. It's going to be a major pain to try to show it on stream, too.
I'm going to I don't know exactly how that's going to work because I'm going to have to drill new holes. I'm going to have to put in I mean, you know, what a what a pain. I'm going to have all these big holes over here like I've already had, but now I'm going to one more big empty hole. Uh drill another big hole over here.
Probably got to drill some a couple of holes maybe. I don't know. Might not have to drill any new holes for the choke since there's already a hole over here. Maybe. I guess there's two holes for this output transformer here already.
So, that'll probably be fine. I might have to drill some bolt holes to mount the thing. We'll see. Um, yeah, it's just going to be a major pain. So, I'm going to have to take this out into my other sort of shop area, if you want to call it that, to to do that drilling. I don't want to do major metal work in here. going to have to saw a new hole for the for this. I'm going to have to drill new holes for these.
Yeah, this is uh we're getting into serious metal work. But for now, um it's just going to be dismantling stuff and I can deal with moving the camera out into the shop, you know, after I do that, if I even get to that today. You know, this kind of stuff, this kind of stuff just takes time. Oh my god. You know, you just want it to be done. And u you know, I thought this might just be done, but no, of course not. I mean, come on.
Couldn't just get it right the first time like I did with this one.
This amp came out so beautifully, so amazingly, and so it just does make sense at this point to mimic as much as I can about the parts layout in getting this one right because in terms of its output performance, you know, oh by the way, there's a pretty nasty 60 Hz hum. But, you know, when I crank up the volume on this, it sounds really good.
as I demonstrated I guess in the last stream that I've done on this.
Get get the stream up here.
Give me a sec to um click click kind of stuff and then we'll have my uh my puny laptop noise to uh accompany the I should have put a freaking thumbnail on this thing. Dang it.
Anyway, here we are.
And here I am in the chat.
All right.
All right. So, I'm going to move this out of the way now, but I wanted to show, you know, this shining example of some good work.
Shining example of bad layout, apparently.
Uh layout's important. It's really important.
Um and again, the problem being having this power transformer so close to the input stage just uh just not working. And that's the only thing I can figure is is the problem.
If it's not the problem, you know, you could say, "Stephen, you really just need to isolate the problem." And it's like, "Yeah, yeah, I do. Problem is, when I tried to do that, I got nastiness. I got shorts. I got bad [ __ ] And I'm going to have to repair that anyway. And as long as I'm in a major repair situation of things that I screwed up underneath, I can't be fiddling around with this. I've got to deal with that. As long as I'm going to have to do that. I want to address what I, you know, effectively know now is a mistake and what I can see is a mistake in my earlier layout. So, that's where I'm going with it.
See, we get this out of our way.
And this is going to take some hot things to accomplish.
blonde fuse.
Blonde. These damn fuses are not super cheap, you know? It's like uh mean they're not super expensive, but they're like a dollar each, you know, which is it's not a 10-centent part.
So, yeah, every time I blow, I can't just be sitting here blowing fuse after fuse to track down a problem.
That's the that's the thing. And I was able to get it on a dim bulb tester without the tubes in, without shorting.
But, um, I just I just need to just go ahead and bite the bullet and fix this mistake.
Okay, this thing out of the way.
Sorry, I gota do a little space making here.
[snorts] [snorts] Let's see. In other news, I dropped a couple of Well, I dropped I posted dropped a couple of videos. Really only dropped the one.
Um, but I made two and I've got one that'll scheduled to come up next Wednesday.
Um, I guess you know why why the uh why the why the delay in content?
Hey, true voice of reason. Good to see you. Um, why the delay in content? Well, you know, there's a there's there's there's some reasons, but I guess what I'll say is um you know, if I don't have a good idea for a video or if I don't feel like I have a good idea for a video, I don't know. I'm It's just It's I I don't really want to be just forcing content, you know, making videos about nothing or just rambling in front of a camera about whatever. I mean, and that, you know, I'll do that sometimes if I've actually got an certainly I can ramble in front of a camera and I don't have a problem doing it if I've got an idea about what I want to talk about. But if I don't have a good idea or don't feel like it's a good idea or I have no idea about anyway, anyway, I'm not just going to be forcing content uh just for the sake of getting stuff out. And uh so that's my my principled reason for not posting regular videos for a while there. I got a couple done and uh I think the one is doing reasonably well.
Um and uh I'll see about this the other one. I don't even remember what it's about right now. It's the funny thing.
You know, I do these videos and like Oh yeah, that one stupid. Okay, you know, so so I was just going to say, God, these things are [ __ ] heavy. Um, you know, one of the reasons for being hesitant about doing some of this um some of this work is that just these uh iron is so damn heavy and um it's it can be, you know, I'm not a 90 pound weakling or anything, but uh I need to work out my arms and wrists more because just moving this [ __ ] around can be actually painful.
So, if I if I cetch and moan and make dad noises, you know what's going on. Oh, boy. All right.
I guess we just got to Okay. Yeah, you got to disconnect the power transformer.
I'm going to have to rip out um Well, actually, probably the first thing to do is take out the choke and then um and then get the other stuff disconnected.
Yeah.
You will meet a strangeanger.
where that's that came from, but long as you're uh pretty tonight.
So TVR, I hope you appreciate the somewhat earlier stream so that you know you don't have to reveal you're being a super night owl just to tune in. You know, it's just for you, man. You and Bob, you know, those of you on the East Coast or at least in the Eastern time zone who show up to these things do really appreciate that. And uh, you know, if I can start a stream a bit earlier to where you don't have to out yourselves as total night owls, I'm happy to oblige.
Oh, they come on. Just let go. Here we go.
A little scattered.
That's a an always statement.
Rip all this power supply circuitry.
That's life. That's just life.
No worries.
You know, and I thought of just doing this off stream, but I don't know. Why not? Why not?
Hang with my my peeps for a bit here.
Of course, the major why not is I can't play tunes, man. Uh what was it? I guess it was last stream when I was testing this amp. Uh giving it the sound test and I played some music dinged copyright. I had to excise those from the VA I guess is the term.
When you make a video, you know, you make a stream viewable later.
That's known as a a VOD video on demand.
Not sure why we don't call all of the videos VODs, but you know, it's the streamer lingo.
I'm up on that [ __ ] y'all.
Up on my streamer lingo.
Yeah, I know TVR, but I mean it just does occur to me that if I do start earlier than then uh my East Coast people can I know it's not actually coast but you know what I mean my eastern time zone people can be here more easily and it's not like I got thousands of people tuning into these things you know what I'm man.
before I totally lose it. Or did I already just lose it? Yeah, I already lost it.
Always got to refigure out which terminal goes where.
Sort of.
Does it say? It sort of says here. Not really though. No.
Oh, actually I already did note it. N for neutral, L for line. Although it's L for line is obscured by the solder, but the N for neutral is still on there.
Good.
Okay, let's get this business undone. Um, Yeah. Heater wiring too. Yep. Whole everything. All power stuff got to go.
Got to move.
Unplugged.
Yeah, that's going to go.
Things look different on the bottom.
These are going to go over here.
This is going to go over here.
This is going to go over here. This is going to go over here.
How or no? Over.
Yeah, [clears throat] this going to go over here.
This is going to go over here on the top.
Um, yeah.
Power trans output transformers are going to go here where the all this power stuff is now.
Oh boy. Okay.
All this disconnected.
Okay, let's Uh, it's always nice to have the illusion of progress. So, what we see evidence progress presented to oneself. Let's get this thing off and moved.
Get rid of some of the clutter here as well as make me feel better.
Okay, one That one.
Where's the little lock washer go?
Squirt the little thing.
No, >> you know, it's just much nicer to keep all these little hardware sets together than have to go fishing in a pile every time.
It's all number four hardware, which is small.
So, this bolt, nut, lock washer, washer, washer.
Okay.
That's done.
Just okay.
[clears throat] secondary.
So I have to say primary is to say the high voltage secondary.
Okay. Doing it wrong. Do it right. Was getting away with doing it wrong without getting But this sinks some major heat. So, got to get it just right.
I got a chat. Let's see. What are we saying here?
Rubicon.
Yeah, but I'm not going to spend $120 on a on a capacitor that doesn't publish a data sheet. Sorry.
Just me.
Yeah, I got to move those transformers.
Uh, in terms of of Oh, you mean like this away? Um, I don't know. I think I'm just going to mimic the Beaver Valley. I mean, I could sort of can them with respect to one another. Thought of that. I'll see, you know, if I've got space.
But thing is I want to make s the thing that I want to make more sure of is that the orientation of the power transformers perpendicular to the output transformers. And if I make the output transformers perpendicular to one another, then I won't have another perpendicular for the power. So probably then the output transformers will just be uh you know with laminations like like this, right? And then the power transformer with laminations like this.
Um, you know, on the subject of coupling caps, um, I know there's a lot of people who who totally think you should go with super uh I don't know. I mean, you know, people have various positions on that.
Um for an amp like this where I'm um I'm using an old chassis, I'm using old sockets, I don't think it makes sense to go in and and put in high dollar caps.
uh you know it's just not you know it's just sort of uh good money after old bad not bad when if I make an ant from scratch on a new chassis and new uh new everything then it makes a little more sense to consider spending more on some of the components But, you know, that said, again, I just don't see spending that kind of money on a capacitor that doesn't publish a data sheet, where the where the maker doesn't publish a data sheet.
I just that just No. No. If you if you want me to spend major dollars, and I'm not saying you as in my viewer, I'm saying you as in a maker. If you expect me to spend major dollars on a capacitor that you say does all this stuff, then back it up with data.
I I it just boggles my mind that when I go look for a data sheet from the maker of these things and there is no data sheet and all I got to go by our our third party reviews online that's just crap. That's crap. That is crap. How how is that a way to do business?
I mean and obviously they've managed to do business that way but uh yeah it's kind of ridiculous.
You know, you ought to not only should you for $120 a cap. All right, let me let me preach for a second here. For freaking $120 a cap, not only should you publish a data sheet, you should publish a [ __ ] spice model, okay? so that I can I can freaking model the difference between your cap and another one, right? I mean, is that too much to ask for a freaking $120 cap?
Sorry, you got me on my soap box, man.
[laughter] Where's the spice model? Show me. Show me what difference it makes before I spend the freaking money. Come on.
because some makers do publish spice models.
And you know who those makers are?
They're the ones that you find on Digi Key. They're the reputable makers, the big brands. They publish spice models for their components.
Because capacitors behave in in funny ways with with with frequencies, different frequencies, you know that you get you get some odd behaviors. You get some odd behaviors when uh or different behaviors than you might expect. Uh for example, if the if there's a bias voltage constantly on a cap, right? A cap that's sitting, you know, with with a voltage on it will behave differently than one that that it that doesn't have a bias voltage on it. and a reputable maker will publish a spice model that includes that effect.
And if you really want to get down in the weeds with with your components, you got to you got to you got to make a spice model. You got to do the modeling, not all this like this will this will open up the cloudiness in the mid-range [ __ ] [laughter] Kama.
Yeah. Orange drops. I'm down with orange drops.
They're fine. They're good. Um, don't use them in everything. Um, for me, we they're good. They're fine.
Used in my Beaver Valley amp and that amp sounds amazing. Sound better with orange drops? Maybe. I don't know. But, uh, you know, the thing is if you're going to go to even better caps and etc, etc. Um, you know, maybe there's other stuff that should also be done, but you know, maybe I should be using better wire, better hookup wire in here. You know, I'm going to go with all those fancy components and, you know, maybe I need to step up my game in other areas as well.
And maybe before I don't know. Orange drops are cool, though. They're they're they're big.
very they can be tough. They they can be kind of tough to fit in um in space that were were originally made for smaller components.
Yeah.
All right. I think is that it?
My power power transformer is disconnected.
We need to clip that so that I can get it out.
to do this. So freaking [laughter] So uh I'll share with you my been talking with my buddy Neils or he's been talking to me about Oh god. Should I give this away? How many people are on this stream?
Okay.
Well, I don't know. Anyway, all right.
I'm going to come out with it. We're going to build a prototype nutrino filter.
And I'll tell you what the about the design if you'd like to know.
Managed to mangle that a bit, didn't I?
[laughter] All right.
Uh yeah. So, anybody know about nutrinos? How to detect them?
So, um well, it might be built in the garage.
it'll, you know, it's going to take some it take some fab work, you know, on a on a serious block of metal. But, uh, but, you know, you could also make one out of wood, uh, with the design that Neils has in mind.
Um, yeah. What do you know about nutrinos, anybody?
Yeah, not so much. not not large amounts of energy involved. Nutrinos in fact are pretty much the lowest energy particle there is.
Uh and that they just you know have no charge and um and they really don't interact with matter very much.
And um the way you make a nutrino detector is uh you put a big frigin tank of water underground and then you have photo detectors all over one side of it.
And you um the time when you detract detect nutrinos is when you're underground tank, you know, if the sun's over over here, right? And here's our our planet.
Uh and if if you dug your tank for your nutrino detector under my middle knuckle there, right?
You want to the time when you detect nutrinos is when the earth is oriented like that.
So you're looking at the nutrinos that are going through the earth and you got that big tank of water because water's transparent.
So you can if if a nutrino interacts with a nucleus um you can you can get the the the photons that are emitted from the interaction.
uh that's why the photo detectors and as nutrinos interact so rarely with matter and so the way to filter nutrinos yeah the way to filter nutrinos is wait for it a right angle got nutrinos on your line. Just put it through a right angle. That's a That's the nutrino filter.
All right.
I'm just uh I'm just not a very good scammer as it as it turns out.
Now, Neils is going to be upset with me for spilling the tea, as it were.
All right, got off the power transformer. Let's look at from the top again. Now I can actually move the damn thing cuz that thing is heavy.
And now time to remove the output transformers.
Got to get all that iron off before I do any drilling or sawing.
Okay.
LEDs as detectors. I don't think so.
No. Um Yeah. And and the reason you you put the entire earth between you and the sun is is because you want to you know anything that can get through the entire earth got to be a nutrino basically.
Uh you know when I worked at Fermy Lab, the experiment I was on um our muon detector uh was behind was down beam, you know, downstream of 3 ft of battleship steel that we just called the steel. And then each panel of muon detectors had a concrete wall about yay thick. So, you know, each each panel was separated from the next panel by a concrete wall.
And so, first of all, if the thing if whatever it was could get through the steel, it must be a muon.
And then, well, if it get if it could get through three feet of battleship steel, then it had no problem getting through concrete. And so we, you know, but you know, just to make sure that you weren't tracking something that had more tendency to interact with mass. And you could see these tracks quite plainly through the through the uh the muon detector. And of course, it was at the very back of the experiment after you'd done all the detection and everything else.
Got a big old Churankov detector. Uh the whole idea of a terankov detector is is pretty wild. Um you're looking for particles that are that exceed the speed of light in a medium. So tranoff detector another kind of thing that's you know filled with uh filled with water. And I'm not entirely sure that nutrino detectors might not work on some of the same uh uh might also be detect detecting particles moving faster than the speed of light in water. Anyway, you're getting, you know, particles that are moving faster than the speed of light of wa in water and then and they emit a a trinkov um ring glow thing.
I don't know exactly how it works.
Um, you might have heard of that churinkov glow. You know, the whole reason that a nuclear reactor might have a blue glow to it is because the neutrons, if you've got fast neutrons coming off and hitting the water, um, they're they're slowing down in the water. But in order to slow down in the water, you know, they emit that radiation because initially they're might be moving faster than the speed of light in water.
Okay.
And to get off our bobbers here, uh, Taiwan, I don't know if we ever observed a Taiwan. Um, so you got your mu nutrinos and your muons, your electron neutrinos and your electrons. Cutrons. So, so in order of mass, right, you've got your your your neutral particle and charged particle pairs on the uh on the electron and neutrino side. So you got your electron and your low mass neutrino and your electron and then your muon and mu nutrino ton and ta nutrino.
Uh but I think I think that these three are all theoretical. I don't know that any of those have actually been observed because like the theory would say that they are they interact so little with matter that you wouldn't you you wouldn't be able to ever observe them.
Um the muon you can observe of course the electron you can observe and the the the low mass nutrino you can observe.
Now, I remember somebody talking about a 14KV nutrino, and I can't remember if that was um associated with the muon or not. So, it and I, you know, this was I don't know if this ever got past peer review. So um so maybe I shouldn't just should just say less but you know so at least at some point people were talking about you know can we detect the mu nutrino and and thinking that they had some evidence for having detected a massive nutrino.
Oh, and if you're wondering, um, when I said a massive nutrino, but I didn't cite a mass, I cited an energy.
That's that's basically how you how you talk about mass subatomic particles is in terms of its number of electron volts.
Uh yeah, Fermy Lab is wild. I used to um back in that day, back in those back in that day, I played a lot of pickup ball. Pickup basketball. Now I play pickup soccer. But you know I was pick up basketballs where I get to interact with all the other you know all the sort of um in my dayto day I mainly interacted with the super geeks and um and once you start playing pickup ball with just anybody you know that's when you start to get to interact with all the all the engineers who make that [ __ ] work.
It's pretty hardcore engineering and it was a beautiful facility. You know, you're right about that, Bob, too.
It's like um who knew that, you know, prairies were beautiful things? So they do things like uh have prescribed burns on the you know because a lot of the you know whatever part of the grounds aren't just cornfield and there is some of that because that was what my windows looked out on was corn field which you know was fine when uh the corn was growing but a lot of the year was just a field of corn stubble.
But um but I'd go like on sort of bushwhacking hikes, what whatnot through the prairie.
They had prairie restoration projects on the grounds.
Um short grass prairie and tall grass prairie. Remember driving by a a prescribed bird on the tall grass prairie one time. you know, and by tall grass I I mean like, you know, over over six feet high grass and um that stuff was on fire. That was pretty bitching. But they also would burn the short grass prairie. There was more of that.
And um and then that was really beautiful cuz um shortly after the burn then it would turn green.
And you know, of course, that that new shoot shade of green, which is just sort of beautiful.
So it' be that that that new new grass shoot shade of green on the black of the recent burn.
It's pretty cool.
It finally detected a very small.
Well, I don't know how old the literature you're reading is. I mean, uh, you know, there's there's a freaking buttload of small particles. So, you know, my my cousin was sort of in on if if you want to think of it this way is, you know, there was a time when they were they being high energy physicists were just discovering this sort of panopoly of subatomic particles that that um you know This is like you know when they were putting uh they were figuring out the standard model really and all the subatomic particles that went with it. you know, stuff that that doesn't make any matter typically has [snorts] super short lifetimes that are, you know, so these things only occur well, I mean, presumably they would have occurred naturally shortly after the Big Bang at least, but maybe otherwise they only occur in in in accelerators. Anyway, you know, I'm thinking like, oh, the one that comes to mind is the JI particle. I couldn't tell you what the freaking Jside particle except that why does it have two names?
Is because two different groups detected it like close enough together that nobody could agree which name to give it. So, they just decided to give it both.
But he was [snorts] uh my cousin was working uh he was doing his undergrad at Berkeley in the late 70s and got sort of hooked up with um with some kind of you know as an undergrad I think got hooked up with research going on at Slack the Stanford linear accelerator.
What's the what's the C center? Anyway, it's a two-m long straight tube.
And um and then he did his PhD at Berkeley and uh so that must have been that was sort of wild time, right? they were, you know, everybody got to be discovering new stuff, new particles.
And um and then that was that those were the glory days. After that, it's it's all been just um clean up. A lot of it, you know, there are the big the big um there are still the big experiments, you know. I mean, pretty much every high energy physicist would have been um on at least one of the collaborations that that found the Higs Bzon.
Um and so of course he was too.
I just shouldn't I shouldn't have turned that off.
Yeah, he sort of confessed to me at some point that maybe he shouldn't have the physics might have been more interesting if he'd gone into solid state physics because um you know unless you know that that a lot of what was going to a lot of the physics that was going to happen in high energy physics from that date on was was just uh figuring out the details, what he called cleanup.
And um yeah, I guess I'm going to have to detach these here.
All right, DVR. I'm not I'm not trying to give you too much [ __ ] Uh, but I don't keep up on that stuff anymore.
Um, it's uh, well, I was going to say it was fun at the time.
The idea of it was fun, was neat, and you know, so I guess I kind of did the smart thing. If there's something you want to do and you think, you know, this might be the thing to do, you know, get a get a job as an undergrad or after undergrad, you know, check it out. see if this is a thing that you might want to do because you know getting a PhD is serious hard work. So, um that's what I did after after I graduated and um you know, as it turns out, um as it turns out, if you're going to be a high energy physicist as a graduate student, you're going to spend most of your time in a bunker.
In that particular case, you know, at least we had windows. But one of the experiments my cousin was on was just, you know, pretty uh pretty uninspired architecture, that's for sure. It was a It was a metal shack out in the middle of a prairie with a bunch of ugly guys.
Not all of them were ugly, but boy.
And when they get together, you know, they're not real good at small talk. I'm not real good at small talk either, but but dang, man. They just they just talk about um things like the lifetime of the JI particle. Just, you know, not stuff that somebody with my level of education at the time was really able to participate in.
It doesn't really matter to real people.
And so I did I just scorch.
So I just decided it wasn't for me. And if I have to be perfectly honest, I also got the impression that maybe I wasn't quite smart enough to to seriously get into that stuff.
Um it was pretty hardcore and um wasn't it wasn't clear that I had what it took on some level at least.
Oh [ __ ] I didn't need to do that back.
Yeah, I wanted to I wanted to get into a field where there might actually be some women involved.
And so that's why I ended up doing what I did.
But I wasn't I'm a geologist now, but I wasn't a geologist for grad school or I kind of became a geologist sort of in effect through the subject of my major research.
But I went to school in hydrarology and department of civil and environmental engineering and jeez mangled the hell out of that wire, didn't I?
And I remember going to the, you know, bulletin board or whatever directory sort of board in the hallway showing pictures of all the grad students and literally counting up the number of men and women on the board and going, "Okay, okay, I can deal with this.
But I remember my cousin specifically sort of admitting or I don't know admitting is really the right word but saying that um you know he at least a good chunk of the reason he'd gone into high energy physics instead of say something more I don't know actually what he would have considered maybe more interesting in the long run solid state physics um was that it was something that his wife was interested in so he could actually talk to his talk about his work to sue his wife without her just you know and she'd be interested in what he was talking So, so yes, my cousin became an energy physicist to get girls. [laughter] Maybe that's why [laughter] guess it was a different time and place than when I was contemplating getting into that particular field. Very different time and place.
Slack wasn't doing interesting work anymore. So you had to be at Fermy Lab which is far away from real people.
I mean, it's in the suburbs of Chicago, but boy, is it way out in the suburbs of Chicago.
It is in outer Chicago land. I suppose you would say it's great place to go if you've already got a a partner, I suppose, but not a good place necessarily to go to meet one unless you're into ugly guys, you know.
It's not like there weren't any women at all. There were a couple, but you know, they were married.
They had their pick.
To be able to hang as a woman in high energy physics, you know, you were The odds, as they say, were in your favor.
It's not all the guys were ugly.
Not all the guys. And I wouldn't even say that generally the guys were losers or anything. I think it's just it was seriously a bunch of guys any given time might be two women in the in the building with 60 other people.
I think that one's fully disconnected.
Yeah. And also, you know, it's it was sort of the reality that um you know, there were there were different experiments. You know, if you were on one of the big collider experiments, um then you were sort of your office might be in the big skyscraper, you know, high-rise building.
um you know, you'd be sort of where the action was, but dang if if you were on some fixed target experiment uh and you were out in a bunker somewhere with whoever else was on that experiment and um just wasn't going to be a great All right. March discover instead of two up quarks and one down card probably two heavy charm quartz, one down quartz.
So, it was a nucleon with Yeah. charm production.
My uh my cousin's experiment was involved with charm production.
Anyway, yeah, I don't know anything about it. Um, the names of the quarks are fun. Got your your up and down. That's what makes everything that we're made of and everything that we interact with.
And then uh charm and strange.
And then um bottom and top or beauty and truth.
Uh top has kind of stuck but bottom didn't stick. Beauty. So it's like beauty and top are the more predominant names which doesn't make sense but whatever.
So I guess was the was the point was this a stable nucleon that they found?
Um like a mixture of charm and down.
That would be that would be interesting.
Okay. Wires disconnected, man. You know, I it's the physicists really figured out their PR on some level. I mean, the whole getting us getting the taxpayers around the world to pay for those colliders.
Amazing.
Amazing. Think about that. Like cuz I It's cool, right?
It's cool stuff.
But on some level, okay, I'm just going to say it. Who cares?
It has no real relevance to anybody's life. Has no relevance to anything that exists in the world. I'm not saying it's useless, completely useless to do, but boy, it's pretty damn close to completely useless.
Yet, we spend so much. I mean, those things are not cheap. That is an understatement, right?
Colliders.
Damn.
And I'm not saying it's a bad thing to do.
I'm just saying, wow, you guys do some amazing PR.
You got all these countries taxpayers to pay for some amazing toys.
so that you can figure some [ __ ] out that doesn't affect anybody or anything.
Not really.
Cool to know. Cool to know. Not saying there's something wrong with that kind of basic research, but the cost. Oh my god.
Wow.
Here's my theory of how they managed to do that.
Probably want to get us working on some useless [ __ ] instead of um you know, cuz you know, we we know how to we know how to blow you up. We can make bombs. You don't want that, do you?
I don't know.
controversial opinions. Perhaps it's just sour grapes, you know, cuz I come from I work in a field that just has like, you know, we're we're asking for like gas money and peanut butter and, you know, just enough to pay a graduate student to go camping out in the field and you know, the sort of the sorts of budgets that induce sticker shock in panels and um and program managers at the National Science Foundation in my field are just like rounding error. [laughter] [ __ ] rounding error in one of these big ass experiments.
And you know, I mean, not saying anything either about like I mean, I'd much rather we spent more money on that than some of the other useless things we spend money on, but Sour grapes. Sour grapes.
TVR. That's because it's it's a it's probably one of those particles that has such a short lifetime.
You missed it. It's gone.
Yeah. It's like it's funny these particles that their lifetime is is me measured in in nanconds or whatever. I don't even know that's right, but It's you know and I will also point out um that even on these big physics experiments there is, you know, we're still not talking like real money relative to say defense type projects.
um or for that matter probably like well anyway I mean what what I'm getting at is like you know yeah the engineering of a particle accelerator is amazing and um and that's where the sort of cost is no object sort of hardware sits.
Um, and maybe even on the big uh, you know, some of the big collider experiments, you know, the ones where, and by collider, I mean, you know, where you're like you're shooting beams at at each other.
So, you got these big um, sort of cylindrical detectors.
Um [clears throat] but at least in the experiment I was on, you know, there was certainly a lot of there was a certain amount of chewing gum and bailing wire type stuff going on um in order to keep stuff going.
So it's not like they were just burning dollar bills out there.
I don't mean to give that impression.
Man, sometimes getting that last bolt is just OMG.
It's one that has a tag strip on it.
All right, I think it is free.
Fish out some hardware.
All right. Iron removed together.
All right. Let's Let's See what we got here and then see if I can straddle out.
Where's the lock washer?
Another lock washer.
Lock washer. Go.
[snorts] Not the end of the world.
There it is.
All right.
All righty then.
Now comes part.
Let's just let's let's do some layout here.
Let's do some layout for restart.
By we, I mean me. But let's do some layout before we start cutting, drilling, etc. So or wait.
Oh yeah, that's Wait. Okay, I think that's the hole that is new because it matches this one. That's the old hole. So I I can actually put this these this back in these original holes like that. Okay.
Now remember the original output transformers were over here. Um, and so you will perhaps note that the original configurations of the output transformers wasn't even didn't even have laminations perpendicular to the laminations on the power transformer.
Interesting, huh?
So that's the idea which means you know and and how now one thing I'm not you know I'm a little worried about is how much does it matter to have output transformer because you know one of the one of these pieces pieces of iron is going to have to end up being relatively near the input stage.
And so is there is there a problem with that?
Now I could sort of scooch these this way, right? To get them a little bit further from the inputs.
But then I've then I've scooched them close to one another, which you know, you generally like to have them farther apart from one another for better channel separation. And you generally like to have them farther from the power transformer, although again, you know, it's it's you only got so much space.
But, you know, if I sort of maximize space between things between big pieces of iron. Then I've got something like that.
And then that Oh, and then I've got this choke which can go over here somewhere. Right there.
And where exactly?
Don't know. But let's just say, you know, maybe it's right here or something.
I mean, I can scooch it over. I'm just, you know, it'd be nice to be able to use some original holes, but but don't worry about that anyway. Then I put the rectifier sort of say right here.
And it' be nice if I had a little head had a little handy circle of paper to represent that, but I don't. So we'll just use this. There we go. There's our rectifier and then our choke.
You know, hell, just to give it maximum distance. And actually even Oh, not quite. New quite the same hole spacing. Oh, so tough.
So close.
But put the choke over here as well.
So that keeps all of the power stuff, you know. And of course this uh this goes here and output jacks go over here which means I got to close up a hole or something. I got to you know anyway that is the plan.
Um, and so yeah, now I just need the holes.
Um, but I got to tear out some stuff underneath first as well.
Um, and I should go ahead and I think I should probably do that before I commit two holes. I should probably figure out the layout underneath as well.
So, let's do that. Let's envision things.
I'm just going to ask Google a question here.
So I'm just typing in for optimal ideal placement of output transformer on tube amp doesn't matter if it is close if it is the output is close to the input stage.
See what I get.
I was hoping an AI would give me something here.
I'm going to consult Morgan Jones here.
That's why I've got actual physical books.
Okay.
Perhaps we can do a little reading together from Morgan Jones.
Let's find All right. This comes under planning.
Chassis layout.
A valve amplifier uses a large number of components needing relative positioning that minimizes the length of connecting wires yet prevents them and their wiring from interfering with each other.
Chassis layout breaks down into the following considerations.
Electromagnetic induction is number one, minimizing hum induction from chokes and transformers into each other and into valves. Two, heat, output valves, etc. are hot and must be cooled. Conversely, capacitors run cool and should be kept that way. Three, unwanted voltage drops.
All wires have resistance, so the wiring must be arranged to minimize any adverse effects of these voltage drops.
Four, electrostatic induction.
Minimizing hum from AC power wiring is not often a problem because even thin conductive foil provides perfect electrostatic screening, but paths should be kept as short as possible.
Five, mechanical/safety.
Achieving an efficient chassis arrangement that is easily made, maintained, and used. Six, acoustical.
Almost all components are microphonic, but valves are the worst. We should consider which components are most sensitive to vibration and minimize their exposure.
Seven, aesthetic. The highest expression of engineering is indistinguishable from art. If you have a superb chassis layout, it will probably look good.
Conversely, if it looks horrible, it is probably a poor layout.
We have a seven-dimensional problem. A poor transistor amplifier might be able to hide behind the fence of negative feedback, but amplifiers having an output transformer rarely tolerate more than 25 dB of feedback before their stability becomes distinctly questionable.
Okay, let's skip ahead here.
Electromagnetic induction.
Almost all of the larger components either radiate a magnetic field or are sensitive to one. Not all of a transformer's primary flux reaches the secondary. So second so leakage flux might induce currents into grid wiring thereby developing voltages across associated resistances.
Whether or not these currents and voltages are significant depends on the sign signal level and source impedance at that point. So output valves are less of a problem than the input stage.
Coupling between wound components wound components such as transformers and chokes can easily couple into one another. So hum can be produced by a mains transformer inducing current directly into an output transformer.
Fortunately, the cure is reasonably simple and may be summarized by a simple ratio whose value must be minimized.
Induction is proportional to cossine theta over d cubed. The angle theta and distance d are shown in the diagram. See figure 1.1.
The d is distance. Theta is the angle between the laminations. Say rotating transformer cores by 90° cosine theta equals cosine of 90° equals zero.
So the coil of one transformer or choke is not aligned with the other is very effective and typically results in an immediate 25 dB of practical improvement. Even better if one coil is driven from an oscillator whilst the interference developed in the other is monitored oscillate oscilloscope or amplifier loudspeaker careful adjustment of relative angles can often gain a further 25 dB and that's what Neils was telling me at some point and what I was going to try with this before I had things short and lead me to just going and tearing [ __ ] up.
Okay, because coupling decays with the cube of distance, as the distance between offending items is increased, the interference falls away rapidly.
However, simply increasing the gap between two adjacent transformers from 6 to 25 mm does not materially reduce the interference because the transformers are typically 75 mm cubes. And the spacing that applies is the distance between centers which has only changed from 81 to 100 millimeters resulting in only 5.5 dB of theoretical improvement.
Unfortunately, when large transformers are this close coupling no longer obeys the inverse cube law because the dipole equation upon which it is based carries the implicit assumption that the separation is much greater than the dipole length. So 3dB reduction or less is more likely.
Okay.
Um, let me just keep reading here. Um, another consequence of size is that if other layout considerations force an output transformer and mains transformer to almost touch, we should not only ensure that their coils are at right angles to one another, but also align their centers. When the centers are aligned, each edge of one coil induces significant current into the receiving coil. But because the edge distances are the same, their induced currents are equal and opposite, so cancel. But if one transformer is slid to one side whilst remaining at right angles, the edge distances differ. Complete cancellation no longer occurs and increased induction results.
That is very interesting. So that I guess is why we often do see our all our transformers in a line.
And so that means that wherever I put this, I want the line I want these to be on the on the centers of these to be on a line with the center of this.
Be aware that the previous argument of edge distance equality and consequent cancellation assumes that the transformer manufacturer made each winding fill complete layers. They usually do because it avoids difficult winding. But a dualchamber bobbin having the mains primary in one chamber and secondaries in the other destroys this fundamental assumption and only testing can determine its optimum orientation.
Although smoothing chokes are gapped and therefore inevitably leaky, they don't gener generally have much alternating voltage across them. So their leakage is low and they can often be used to shield output transformers from the mains transformer. The exception to this rule is the choke input power supply which has a substantial al alternating voltage across its choke.
So its leakage field can be significant.
Poorly designed mains transformers core can easily be saturated by the large current pulse pulses drawn by a larger large reservoir capacity capacitor.
A poorly designed mains transformer's core can easily be saturated by the large current pulses drawn by a large reservoir capacitor in combination with a semiconductor rectifier producing a particularly ragged leakage flux. And this can be quickly identified using a search coil.
Oh wow. I think I have a search coil.
Now, the effectiveness of magnetic shielding is determined by the ratio of the shield's thickness to penetration depth. Okay. Shielding. Shielding.
That's not what I was after. Um, so I mean like he like like he says, you know, the the inputs way more sensitive than the output stage.
Um, do I need to worry about the leakage from the output transformer?
Maybe. But but certainly the leakage from an output transformer would be preferable to the leakage from freaking power transformer.
And the choke, well, just keep it over here somewhere.
And I can go ahead and make its laminations perpendicular to these.
Bob. Yes. And welcome Bob. Good to see you here. Um, you know, I know I could put it on a se whole separate chassis. It's just, um, this, you know, this isn't that sort of project.
Um and that like for that for example that is I think what I'm going to do when I when I make my sort of uh uh my tube lab type uh type 45 single image amplifier.
I have a nice chassis for for the tree.
Um, I've got like seriously over overowered power transformer and um and choke um that Neils gave me. They're just, you know, it's just too big to be putting on one of the little aluminum chassis anyway. And so, um, I've got a separate chassis for for for those for that amplifier, which is just simply to say, you know, for this amplifier, I'm just not that interested in uh making the um, not to put too fine a point on it, this is not that the budget for this amp is not such that it can tolerate Sorry to a whole separate chassis.
Um because then then you got to have interconnects uh in the whole bit and um and it's not just that. It's just you know then it becomes a a whole oh it just becomes a whole other deal doesn't it on some level. And um this one is just doesn't have just isn't that deal I guess is what I'm clumsily trying to say.
Um obviously I don't want to freaking hum.
So jeez though. Yeah. Shielding.
Shielding. Um, okay. Let's see.
Talking about shielding, penetration depth, blah blah blah.
Less than 100 kHz is always better to avoid leaking flux than it is to attempt to shield it. Unsurprisingly, the equation also tells us that magnetic shielding is best achieved using a magnetic material such as steel. But it also tells us that magnetic shielding can be obtained at high frequencies simply by a good conductor such as aluminum or copper uh aluminium or copper. Thus, we can expect a thin steel shielding can can. Thus, we can expect a thin steel shielding can enclosing a transformer to mainly attenuate the high frequency component of its leakage flux.
The second guilty party is a 50-year-old mains transformer whose core material is deteriorated deteriorated but is screened by a thin steel can resulting in a leakage waveform having smoothly rounded edges indicating a far less high frequency indicating far less high frequency content than the first example.
Little of the second example shielding was due to ferrris shield diverting and containing leakage flux, but the majority was due to losses.
Hysteresus and edurren losses become more significant as frequency rises even if the loss per cycle remains constant. There are more cycles per second to dissipate energy. Further, as frequency rises, wavelength falls and more loops become possible in a given distance. Eddie current losses are in are conduction losses. So the shields electrical resistance should be minimized making 2 millimeter copper 4 millimeter aluminium very effective greater than 100 kHz. Another transformer shielding possibility that relies on losses is the Faraday shield.
See figure 1.4.
Shorted turn wound around the outside of a transformer forms a Faraday shield.
The wide copper strap provides magnetic shielding because it is a shorted turn to the transformer's leakage flux. And this is why it wraps around the entire core rather than the core's central leg.
The shield's effectiveness is determined by its electrical resistance and the proportion of intercepted leakage flux.
So the foil firstly needs sufficient cross-sectional area to have low resistance and be an effective shorted turn and secondly needs to enclose as much of the transformer as possible. The ideal Faraday shield would be a tube much longer than the transformer but practical considerations generally limit it to the width of the windings.
The Faraday shield can be retrofitted to any EI transformer provided care is taken.
All right, not really trying to go there either. Um, transformers [clears throat] in the chassis. We have seen that all transformers leak flux and that shielding is difficult. The question is whether the leakage flux is a problem.
If an output transformer leaks flux into the alum aluminium chassis of a power amplifier, it probably isn't a problem because aluminium doesn't conduct magnetic flux. But a mains transformer leaking flux into the steel chassis of a pre-amplifier is a problem because the steel chassis passes the flux into sensitive signal circuitry.
Fortunately, because mu subr is about one for non-magnetic materials, but mu subr is greater than 5,000 for steel, even a small gap is able to prevent flux leaking into a steel chassis.
1.6 mm plain phenolic sheet is ideal, but may be hard to find. of practical alternatives include the decorative printed phenolic shield found in DIY stores or 3mm 1/8 inch acrylic.
Be aware that although tooidal transformers are the theoretically perfect shape, practical toids leak flux and that and that mounting a toid directly onto a steel chassis is asking for hum problems. As before, plastic sheet provides enough of magnetic gap to significantly reduce induction. However, the danger of accidentally creating a shorted turn is considerable. TOIDs are usually secured by a conductive screw pulling a large conductive washer onto the opposite face of the core to clamp the transformer tightly to the chassis.
Accidentally connect accidentally connecting the washer or screw to the chassis by any means other than the bottom of the central mounting screw constitutes a shorted turn that could destroy a power transformer.
There's a possibility of the washer contacting the chassis, break the conductive path through the screw.
You either use a nylon screw, not ideal because the small cross-section of nylon stretches easily, or use a pair of metal screws separated by a substantial threaded plastic boss. The boss's far larger cross-sectional area is less liable to stretch and weaken the clamping force.
Boy, boy, boy, boy.
Here we go. Well, here's something about beam valves and mains transformers.
Uh, beam valves deliberately focus their current into thin sheets that pass largely unintercepted between the horizontal wires of G2, thus improving efficiency. This means that a vertical beam deflection would affect G2 current. And because G2 is typically supplied from a finite source resistance, ohms law ensures that this would change VG2. Thus, changing I A.
One way of deflecting electrons is with a magnetic field such as the leakage flux from a transformer due to beam deflection can be minimized by applying Fleming's left-hand rule and ensuring that the electron beam is never at right angles to the leakage flux from the transformer.
When considering induction between two transformers, it did not matter which transformer was rotated so long as the coils were at 90 degrees to one another. With beam valves, only one orientation is ideal with respect to a nearby mains transformer.
So, what you're saying is I got my beam pentoed here and here are my plates. So let's is it like this? Is that in beam forming plate? Yeah.
Then what I don't want is something like that.
What I do want is something like that.
Now over here what do we have?
here.
Sockets and pins are squirly as [ __ ] There's the orientation of my hell.
Crap.
Did I get some [ __ ] solder in there?
So, check it out. So, my plates are oriented like that.
That's super pinchy.
Which would indicate that the optimal orientation of the power transformer would be like that.
>> [clears throat] >> If I did that, then I'd want my output transformers to be like that, right?
Oh boy.
I don't know if that's going to happen.
Let's say it's like this.
And that's obviously not optimal, but at least it's not the worst.
All right.
But Elvis has shown it in two positions both at the same distance from the center of the mains transformer and with correct beam orientation relative to the leakage flux from the transformer.
However, leakage flux tends to be concentrated on the axis of the coil and would also induce some into the control grid circuitry whereas the alternate position has much lower flux density.
Input valves are very sensitive to hum fields and should always be placed at the far end of the chassis to any mains transformer. So hence the original positioning here, the mains transformer way over here and the input valves over here.
In theory, output transformers should leak less flux because they operate at a lower flux density to avoid saturation and consequent distortion and are designed for minimum leakage inductance which translates directly into reduced leakage flux. In practice, probing output transformers and mains transformers with a search coil failed to show the expected difference.
The quality of the transformer seems to be the overriding consideration rather than its use. Thus, a leak TL12 plus pushpull output transformer.
Thus, a leak TL12 plus pushpull pushpull output transformer leaked more flux than a good quality modern output transformer in a single-ended amplifier despite the ladder being gapped.
Although as expected leakage flux at 90 degrees to the coil's axis cancels to zero leakage at the edges of the coil can be comparable with that on axis because the coil's outermost turn is far away from the flux concentrating core. See figure 1.6.
What am I looking at exactly? Are these laminations and these are the coil? This is the coil.
In which case, what transformers leak most flux along the axis of their coils and at coil edges farthest from the core.
What's poor mean? Then minimum leakage.
So if these are the coils, most flux is weakage is along this axis, but also it's bad at these corners means that's not so great either.
Again, ideal would be that but more to the point of inputs.
Um, let's see.
That would be not so bad, right? Let me think. Uh, coils are going this way.
Now the axis of the coil then is straight up and down.
Um is that what's being shown here?
Yeah. Why would I show it this way?
But I guess what it seems to say is that the that in any case the this would be a better orientation for example than um like the worst would be something like that right?
No, wait.
It's gonna have coils going this way, right? And then Yeah. So like that.
So right worst thing would be something like that is the maximum leakage would be along this axis and so this would not be as bad and this would not be as bad and this is probably the best. So that I guess it's still suggesting that it's not optimal to better to have the output transformers farther from these tubes, but again that go to a separate chassis.
Well, you're always welcome, even if you're late. I'm just going around and around with this, wanting to make sure that if I change things, it's not going to be just as bad.
I guess bottom line is even if this thing is sitting you know like this over here you know it's the most important thing is having this far away from these and um and that's achieved and I think that's about all I'm going to get here just to say, yeah, you know, you would you do kind of want to consider leakage flux from your output transformers.
Probably not that big a deal, though, especially if you got the orientation right.
Um, and actually it probably would want to line up line it up like that so that uh, you know, because of the whole like being close to the edges of the coil is worse than being near the center in this case.
Do that.
And this one goes jeez.
These leads are just snagging onto everything that can go in between like that. I want to line up all the centers of these.
Yeah.
But that you know so so the reading had had real results here in that I don't necessarily I would I would it seems that it would be preferable to uh make these make these tubes on that particular axis with the output transformer and thereby put all these transformers a little bit closer together than to have it say scooched all the way over here. In which case you've got perhaps a bit more leakage coming from this edge here.
Yeah, something like that. Anyway, all right.
And then as long as these are lined up and these laminations are perpendicular to those, that's probably good enough. And then this one be over here.
Um or just kind of somewhere over here really. Um, again, probably best to make these laminations perpendicular to those.
Um, but I got to put in my rectifier tube here somewhere.
Seems like the general idea with that is keep it as far away from all the signal tubes as possible, which leaves me, you know, limited room to put this, but um the axis of this is this straight up and down. You know, it's not like I'm aiming the thing at the tubes like that or something. That would be the worst way to go.
And now I think about it, you know, the original orientation of this was underneath the chassis like so.
sort of aiming whatever leakage flux might have been coming out of this straight at the bases the circuitry for these input tubes.
I don't know. Maybe maybe that was part of the problem.
Don't know for sure.
Anyway, scooch this thing way over here.
Oriented straight up and down.
Should be good to go.
Okay.
All right. Right. I think I need to then uh come up with some actual decisions on placement.
Stepped away.
Put my book away.
Okay. So, um I don't really want the don't want the output transformers are hanging over the edge, but it's probably best to get them right up to that edge if I can, I suppose.
or well I do need to worry about bolt holes, you know, having all these leads makes it a little difficult to um can't just sit this down.
What a pain. Anyway, so do something something.
Exactly.
And then there's a sting.
I might Well, probably. You know what?
I'm going to probably be moving that anyway.
But I think it's probably time to look underneath. Make sure all this is going to be copacetic. probably go ahead and get some of that circuitry ripped out of there, tag tag strips moved and so on, which will probably include this tag strip onto which the main filter capacitors are mounted.
Um, this tag strip is uh the DC power supply to this tube.
So that'll stay there, but it won't be sitting bang up next to the filter capacitor. The filter capacitors will be way over here.
Yeah.
Don't Got to step out for a sec.
Here I go.
Okay.
So, right, take off this tag strip and disconnect whatever needs to be disconnected or or well, yeah. So, um there we go.
So, um remember what was this?
What's this resistor about? This resistor.
Oh, right. Yeah. Shoot. Yes, that's my dropping resistor for the heater supply, right? Which is why one of the Yeah, I may need to move that. Um, yeah, since my stuff will be way over here.
Um, I might want to hook up those the uh probably want to just tap into put in the the heater winding leads like here just uh that's closest.
Of course, this stuff has to come out.
Might as well get that out of there.
Oh, so many holes that are going to need to be made perhaps patched up.
Again, I wonder about my having left these big holes open, you know, any shielding that the chassis might have otherwise provided was uh, you know, had big holes in it.
That might have been an issue over here.
That won't be that won't be the issue.
So, I'm just looking to see what exactly this needs to be disconnected from.
That's around that high voltage there.
Okay. And then place the resistor.
All right.
What about this? Oh, but that's right.
Just got freaking over over sized. Uh capacitors on my DC power supplies.
That'll stay there.
Hard to get in there, but okay.
Sorry, I got fuss and bother.
I go in with the solder back in.
Okay.
One thing about a ground bus is it sure does sink a lot of heat.
Hard to solder on it.
Not super hard, but Jesus.
That wire is going to need to be replaced anyway.
Just get this one out here. That'll be easiest to pull that one straight out here.
Oh boy.
Yeah. Well, pulled and what I got was insulation.
That's why be replaced. Come on.
What? There we go. God.
Jeez.
All right.
Off of there.
Ow.
Duh. Ow.
There we go.
Now we're over here somewhere.
And this will go somewhere different.
This will go somewhere over here.
So, let me get that out of there as well.
This will need a new wire. I'm going to leave that there for just because This is ground.
Okay.
go ahead and get this uh apart because Okay, so these are these wires, these big long red wires. These go to the cathodes of the in both cathodes of the input stage and and um phase inverter and then these go to the outputs. This is the feedback and cathode bias network part of it anyway.
And uh like so these are the feedback resistors here and then these are the main cathode bias resistors here.
And um so that's going to have to go over here somewhere where there's so much room.
But there we go.
And um so I don't know where exactly I'm going to fit that but not over here.
Might put that over here actually.
Um since this is where the outputs will be.
Okay.
Got to retake ground bus of course, but is what it is.
Anyway, let's get these disconnect these wires from here.
Probably be able to reuse those wires, but they'll need to be cut.
Um, so let's get those resistors off first.
And uh yeah, I accidentally rested my knuckle against the ground bus there and I was like, "Oh, that's getting hot."
Well, yeah. copper's pretty good pretty good conductor of heat, which is why I just got to like sit this on here for so long in order to desolder.
Okay, getting somewhere here.
This will go over here. Something like that. Probably. Probably up here.
Don't need these tag strips. I wasn't using them anyway, so probably go ahead and take those out.
Um, yeah, let's go over here. These will go to the outputs.
Route these wires to these holes here.
But not do that. Don't want to do that now because we have metal work to do first. But do want to go ahead and get this off since it's not being used for anything.
And I'll probably need to do after I do whatever metal work, I will probably need to do at least a coat of touch-up paint.
Look at all that paint job damage there.
Sorry.
So [snorts] sad.
Just stuff.
Motor motor.
And don't need these right now, but uh I might not need them at all. Probably don't.
But I'll keep them around in case I do.
All right.
Okay. All right. All right. Okay. Okay.
Now we need to place things which means um Okay. So, so I'm sitting here going to myself because the next step is to uh place components, which means drilling [clears throat] holes, which means uh placing those holes. And by placing that means uh punching, you know, with the uh the punching device, the center punch.
And hard to do that with this thing here.
Hard to do that at all, honestly, because uh Okay, so this one, boy, we can use the old holes, which does, I guess, tell us where the other holes need to be given what I've determined, right? So, uh, you know, those holes are on center.
That's cool. So, we can go by that to locate the centers for these.
All right.
Which means that uh center for whatever holes here wants to we want that to be on that axis and we want it to be on that axis. So that those two axes define position for this transformer and then the other one will simply go between you know because we're not going to be able to line it up, you know, perfectly with any of this. But it is these input tubes that are particularly that we do want to get the alignment as close to perfect as we can for.
All right.
Now, that said, Yeah, this is not super simple because you know, okay, so it's going to go like that. But then, you know, I don't have a guide for my center punch. be so much nicer if I already had this, you know, flush with the chassis and I could just make my center punch holes where the, you know, anyway, All right.
I don't even know. I mean, these might even um It doesn't look like this one. So, but I also did talk about wanting to patch these big holes here in order to um patch the holes in the the shielding, the magnetic shielding that the chassis provides.
Um, do I bother patching this one? I don't know.
It's not it's not as um not as worried about that one as I am about these.
But uh I mean ideally all the holes would be patched, filled, whatever.
Now there a couple of ways to patch patch holes like this. you can get, you know, just sort of the readym made um hole filling u things that are meant God hole stoppers, whatever. I don't know what you call them that are made in, you know, regular sizes and would, you know, probably find one to fit those holes maybe or just sheets of steel.
Um, you know, I've got steel for that purpose. Like these are just made to patch holes in a different chassis.
Yeah.
Yes, Bob. I think that is what I should do.
I'm just lazy. Okay. I don't want to bother with a whole other thing. But yeah, the um I believe the ultimate ultimately the most labor saving thing would be to cut out some paper.
Um you know, still got to like fit it on here. uh trace those trace the holes for the mounts and um and then transfer that to here.
Yep.
Yep. Yep. Yep.
Yes. I'm thinking of plugs.
Uh whatchamacallit.
Let's see if the amp over here has any on it.
Snap button caps in electrical department. Yes, same same kind of thing. Um, of course, the issue well an issue there is, you know, check it out. So, I've got this DC power supply on this tag strip that's right up there. There's actually not um it's not really room uh you know because those those snap plug thingies have the you know aren't flush right the the prong thingies whatever come through and they you know they clear like about you got to have about that much clearance and so I wouldn't be able to mount that tag strip right there. I mean, I could move the tag strip. I could move it over to here.
That's not a huge deal, I guess. Maybe that' even be better. I don't know.
Although, um, I'd rather not move it because it's already so interconnected there.
Um, provided I haven't shorted any of those burned up any of those resistors.
And you know what? I'm going to go and check some of those resistors. See if um just in case I might have done some damage to those and my shenanigans and fuse blowing episode 21.
21.
Shouldn't that be 22?
should be 22. It's a 1% resistor like that might have done some damage to that.
Shouldn't have drifted that much, should it? Although am I sure that I'm not getting I mean I'm testing them in circuit.
Can't really be sure if I'm getting exactly the right values.
At least it's not shorted. And similarly, this one is uh be 150 getting 135, but um it's in circuit might might be effectively getting it in parallel with something else.
Plus, I'm not this is not a DC resistance. Yeah, it's funny. These things are called LCR meters. They should be called LCZ meters because Z for Z for impedance because these do not measure DC resistance.
Incidentally, I was uh I was thinking, you know, this would be a great device if you're if you're ever shopping for used vintage or otherwise speakers.
This is probably a great tool to bring with you because it produces a tone the way it is measuring things. it is putting a tone either and so you see the frequency button there that changes it from 120 htz to 1 kHz and uh so you know I've got two frequencies you can measure and so you know test to see that the woofer is working well by switching to 120 htz and then switch to the 1 kHz for the mid range and so on.
Um, it doesn't produce a very loud tone, but it produces an audible tone and you could hear whether the drivers are actually working or not. It's something something like this. Not a tone generator, but it does produce a tone.
Just a little by the buy there. I was reminded I was watching uh Skylabs Skyabs. Yeah. He had [snorts] a video about buying vintage speakers.
I don't know. You think you got the idea for that for my video? Probably not.
Probably not.
His is better video anyway.
All right.
Thin brass plate or copper screen.
Yeah, I don't know. I got to figure out something.
I mean, what I was thinking was just steel. just cut it. Snip out, you know, cut out some steel with snippers and bolt it on there.
Obviously, not that [laughter] have to be cut to size, but uh I've got a a sheet of steel that I use for that purpose.
Uh I guess got some got my uh replacement 6CG7s from Tube Depot, both Hammond branded.
I'm not sure what that means. Does that mean they're Selenius or RCA or either one? Who knows?
Also, if I put brass on steel, doesn't that mean I need to worry about like corrosion? Now, brass is the friendly metal, but if I put copper right on steel, wouldn't that be potentially an issue for corrosion?
I know it's an issue with plumbing that um you don't want to put uh yeah I do doubt that they're so tech but they they must be either Sylvania or RCA. I think that's what they were marketed as anyway.
I'm doing everything super precise and whatnot. I just need piece of paper to be about the right size.
Measure twice, cut once. This is not that crucial.
Jeez.
[laughter] Wow.
All right. Clearly, I should end this stream on the sooner than later side because uh solder this metal.
Is that all right?
Interesting point.
I do have copper tape, but I don't think that's really um I don't think that's particularly amenable to this issue.
Amenable word Beautiful.
Look at that. That's nice. All right.
And now get my artist pencil and do a rubbing.
Maybe this will work. It's going to work. What do you think? I'm going screw this up.
Should probably tape it.
So much so many steps.
There it is.
There we go. Presto.
Okay.
And now that I think about it, I probably better do one for each because these uh these get a little bent. They're not perfectly identical.
So Mark this left and right I suppose this on the left sit it there on the left and this one.
Oh my god. Really? Yes. really the leads because you know they still got the little hooks in them and they're soldered so stick together.
Oh, that's interesting. I didn't know that.
That's cool.
Okay.
Do need to do proper orientation.
So that's the output, that's the input, and this is the bottom.
Good lord. You see what I'm dealing with here? How can I work under these conditions?
Damn it, Jim. I'm a doctor, not an engineer.
Oh, I got this right.
These are the bottoms.
Now, here's a neat trick. If I can pull this off.
Um, you want to find the center. Let's draw the two diagonals and where they intersect is the center.
Provided the poles are a decent representation of where the um of the position of the coils and so on.
My holes in the center slots.
That's the bottom.
Here we go.
Okay.
So now I got to get this thing off.
Okay.
Yeah. I can't even really I can't even punch holes before I get that off.
Left.
So, right.
Like so.
And then the idea being to line these aren't on the same center.
I think that's cuz I made that hole. That's original.
So line up that hole.
like so. But got to get rid of this thing before I can lay these out flat and all that.
and put those back on their respective transformers and and now it's metal work.
Got to drill these out.
Um, got to place that like so. Well, jeez, I'm not even going to be able to make a nice uh rubbing of it before I get get it off of there. So, I can just make it of the hole when I get there.
Um, yeah, that's got to come out. That's going to go over here.
Yeah, the video is doing all right. It wasn't uh didn't didn't look promising at first. I was like, well, geez, man. Fine. But um yeah, it's doing all right. And um oh well, I'll give you guys an update on that. I'm going to have to sign off here in a bit because I don't think there's really anything more I can do on camera before I um before I start drilling stuff. And I just don't really want to bother trying to get that on the stream and I'm not even sure I'm going to do that tonight. But um but yeah, somebody I can't remember who and you know and so you know, forgive me when I get great comments or suggestions in comments and I don't remember who they're from, but um so it might have been one of you that suggested, you know, what about actually demonstrating this effect and actually being able to test belts by uh doing plotting the frequency spectrum for a tone that's played on the turntable with belts of different qualities.
And so I got the idea, well, you know, again, that AR turntable is one that I've been wanting to uh you know, restore.
I don't know that it needs a whole lot of work done, but you know, get it in to at least playing condition.
probably do some cosmetic stuff on it since it's got of a vinyl veneer. It's a one of the newer ARXAs.
So, I want to get maybe three different belts and uh and try them out.
So, I got in touch with a couple of a couple of sellers just throwing it out there as you know, saying what I wanted to do, asking if they wanted to donate a belt to the to the project. And I got one very Yeah, sure. No problem. Um, from turntable needles.com, who's actually headquartered here in Corvalis or you know, he's he is here in Corvalis, Oregon.
I also contacted uh the guy at um Vinyl Nirvana and he was not interested.
And I get it. He has um essentially nothing to gain by helping me out because he's already, you know, he's he's got a great reputation and they can't, you know, he's he's already sort of the the supplier of choice for AR turntables, AR turntable belts, and um doesn't really have anything to gain by uh helping me out.
Um I kind of pointed out that, you know, I can just buy one of your belts and you'll be in the same situation. I mean, but I I get it. I understand. Anyway, he did actually have some good suggestions.
Um for whatever reason, doesn't want me sharing those.
Um whatever. Anyway, long story short, uh he's not going to give me a free belt.
I'll have to pay for it. And um and I think I'll get one from LP Gear given how much I've trashed them in various of my videos. Uh we'll see if maybe they could redeem themselves. And I I don't think I'll even I don't know. Maybe I will ask. I kind of doubt I'll ask them to give me one cuz all they have to do is like look at my video and see how I've talked about them and be like, "Well, [ __ ] you." Not going to give you something free for you. I mean, what if you come out looking good? Uh, you know, nowhere but up for you anyway.
Anyway, buying those couple of belts will cost me another, you know, something like 40 bucks. I get the one from turntable needles.com for free.
Um, you know, I have to go through the process of breaking each one of them in, uh, you know, doing the talc and whatnot, all that. So, I actually got some talc already from Amazon, some pure cosmetic grade talc for the purpose.
And yeah, I'll do a video comparing those belts. Um, I guess I could even compare it to the original that's already on there and um see see what I see.
So, the idea then would be, you know, I I' I'd take the belts, I'd break them in.
I would use my uh use a test record with a tone on it.
Uh the shore the shore test record has a a track with a 1 kHz tone.
And so, play that and record it. and then put the recording into Audacity and plot the frequency spectrum and see what it looks like for for the different belts. And then take the belts off and turn and do a bunch of measurements like take 30 measurements of the belt width with with the calipers.
And so I get, you know, 30 is good large number for robust determination of not only the mean but also the variance.
And so I can get good estimates of the mean and variance of the belt thickness for each belt and sort of compare that to what the frequency spectra show or not and um and thereby do a pretty much objective determination of the quality for each belt. you know, are they are the belts widths in spec?
And um and I could do a measurement, you know, just like the the the phone app, you know, that does the RPM wow and flutter because even though the RPMs aren't super accurate on that, it should al it should give me a a good picture of the wow and the flutter. I mean because it does you can plot out it can plot out the um the variation in the speed and give you a percent wow and flutter from that variation.
So yeah, that's the plan for that.
Um don't know when that'll happen because uh that turntable doesn't even have a cartridge on it right now. So, I'll have to fit a cartridge onto it.
Might take it up to Chris and have him do that for me because he's just so he's got all the Wall-E tools to do that super accurately.
And he's also interested in um dog works. Uh he's also interested in checking out that AR turntable. You know, it's a famous turntable. I don't think either one of us have have done any listening to the ARXA. So I think that'll be interesting for both of us.
And um so yeah, so that's a you know that's one of those things probably not going to happen in the next week or so, but that's in the works. I mean it's the only idea I've got for another video at present.
So, I mean, not to say that I won't come up with one before I get that one done, but um in fact, actually, that's not the only idea I had for a video. The other one I had an idea for was to take my uh my Warfdale W70Ds upstairs into the big room and try those out.
But some stuff needs to get moved before that can happen. And then I'll have then I'll have four pairs of really big big speakers upstairs. Yikes.
Anyway, um yeah, I think I think that's going to be all for me on this.
Um been a pleasure hanging out with y'all and um happy for your suggestions. It's uh it's awesome that I get to get real time suggestions of what exactly to do the the whole pieces of paper thing.
Awesome.
Um I mean I you know it's like I know that I knew that. I just wasn't thinking that right now and being lazy. So but thank you for that.
Um, yeah, I think that's pretty much it. I will probably actually post a video um probably put it both on both of my channels. So, if you don't know, Lancaster Hi-Fi is actually my second channel.
um by I mean it's my primary channel in terms of effort and viewership but it's my second channel in time. My first channel in time was Geomorph Dog which is sort of well which is more more of my uh day job stuff.
Um anyway I shot a little video yesterday. I had a field trip with students yesterday.
shot a bit of bit of video and and just because you know I hardly get any viewers on my Geomorph Dog channel. I'll post it there, but I'll probably also post it on Langster Hi-Fi just for you know in case any of you are interested to see what I do in my day job when I'm out in the field.
So yeah, and this doesn't look so nice now that it's got all those scuffs in the paint job, does it? Dang it. This is going to be pain to repaint, you know, because of these things.
Dang it. [laughter] Let's see. Good night. Yes. Don't forget to hit that like button. Yes.
hit the like button and uh um subscribe if you I mean, but I can't imagine any of you aren't subscribed because how else would you even know that I'm live streaming?
Um although I guess I do get sort of the little bit of drop in. Um it's like I'll look at one of these after I finish and there's like it's gotten like a hundred views or something and it's like oh I guess that just you know people do sort of oh what's this and then quickly go away when they find out just how deadly dull this stream turns out to be.
Anyway, I'm going to sign off. Cheers all. Good night and um thanks for tuning in. Hit the like button. Subscribe to the channel. Uh leave me a comment.
But most of all, I hope you tune in again. And if you do, I will talk to you later. Cheers.
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