Fire Prevention for Structures Near the BWCA After Paddlers Evacuated

[00:00:00]Uh, we're here on the the edge of town of Ely and I'm talking today with Teresa Floberg. You are with Dovetail Partners.

[00:00:09]You're a project leader, coordinator, director and also within that with Dovetail is your the Firewise coordinator for St. Louis County.

[00:00:22]>> Yes.

[00:00:23]>> Teresa, good to see you.

[00:00:24]>> Yeah, likewise.

[00:00:25]>> So, you and I were both at a meeting on Sunday night at the college Vermilion College here in Ely. That was led by the incident command team working the the wildfires as part of the closure of the Boundary Waters Canoe Area Wilderness and the Forest Service were there, had a presence. So, there's a lot of talk about wildfires and fire risk management and a majority of our coverage at Paddle and Portage to date has focused on the closure of the Boundary Waters, the impact to businesses and paddlers being evacuated and what all transpired within the wilderness and how it impacts you know, BWCA specific.

[00:01:08]>> Right.

[00:01:08]>> But, a huge part of this and what came up during that meeting on Sunday night was a lot of talk about structures and homes, businesses, cabins along the Echo Trail, up Fernberg where there's an evacuation up the Fernberg. You know, really a an emphasis on property and structures.

[00:01:30]And that is right in your wheelhouse.

[00:01:32]>> Right, yeah.

[00:01:33]>> Uh, so not to to move on from the evacuation and the closure of the Boundary Waters, but there is another side of this that's taking place in real time.

[00:01:43]When we when we think about properties along these remote areas and you know, for the grand marquis, I'd say the Gunflint Trail we could use as an example, Echo, Fernberg.

[00:01:54]Where do you fit into the idea of urban wildland interface? I think it's like a term that maybe governments use, but maybe maybe the commoner uses that, too. Can we just talk about structures in this situation?

[00:02:10]>> Right. So, you know, the fire is ignited by and large, and the largest ones that we have are in that wilderness area. The wilderness is just a boundary on a map.

[00:02:22]And fires Right. Fires cross boundaries, and right on the other side are communities, our homes, our cabins and lodges.

[00:02:30]And so, the term uses the wildland urban interface, or WUI, which is often coined. And that's where we look at human development and homes right next to the wildland. Um and so, areas that are at risk and prone to wildfires and their impacts. And so, what we do is with Firewise is work with property owners on how they can increase their resiliency and reduce their risk in the event of a wildfire comes through that community or through that road or to a remote property, wherever it's going to travel.

[00:03:05]>> Mhm. And has that Did that occur before the fire? Was that taking place around the Ely area?

[00:03:11]>> Firewise is an ongoing program and has been around for many years. Firewise USA is a national effort. You know, states administer it. Minnesota Department of Natural Resources have a Firewise team.

[00:03:24]Um and then they work with the local counties. And then it even goes down to small communities that want to coordinate and be Firewise communities.

[00:03:31]And so, it's ongoing, and a lot of it is that preparation you do over time and continuously.

[00:03:38]There's some efforts and mitigations you can take on your home that are one-time.

[00:03:42]There's some that you have to do every single spring prior to wildfire season.

[00:03:46]And so, it's recognizing that we live in an area that is at risk to wildfires, and it's really important to do our part as home and land owners to protect our properties, to create defensible space, to create safe ingress and egress. So, when wildland firefighters are in the area, they have a safe place to anchor on to protect our homes and our structures and our infrastructure.

[00:04:08]>> Mhm. Have you heard from some of the personnel, the incident command teams, and I know even even today on Monday you had a meeting with the Forest Service, uh separate from the the big public meeting on Sunday night, that some of that's paying off, that like that that forward work is is of value to these teams as they approach these structures?

[00:04:30]>> Firewise work is very important for when those wildland firefighters are going in to protect structures. It needs to be safe for them, um and it needs to be a place that they can exit safely. And so, this is not a new experience for Minnesota. There was devastating fires last year, the Camp House fire in Brimson, um that impacted a lot of homes. And, you know, Firewise isn't a perfect solution. It's not going to save every home every time, but it's going to make a huge difference for what wildland firefighters and those fire departments can do to protect a structure.

[00:05:02]>> Okay. Uh there was some discussion at the meeting Sunday night about, you know, dozers coming in and clearing lines for crews or even just as a break for the fire, and laying hoses around resorts. I mean, that this it seems like a sort of a next level jump from just uh Firewise management around a property, if that is fair.

[00:05:25]>> Yes, that is the response. And so, those wildland fighters, those firefighters, those teams that come in, that is the work they're doing on the ground in a wildfire to do whatever they can with the tools they have and the access they have to safely protect these structures.

[00:05:39]And so, Firewise gets us up to that point. Firewise looks at what you can do before a wildfire to better prepare your home. Um, and then we also do provide information on, you know, what to do in those evacuation zones, what you need to start thinking about, what you can do as far as the top items before you were to need to evacuate that you can take action on to give your house a better chance.

[00:06:05]>> All right. Well, so what are some basic or sort of primary examples of that?

[00:06:11]>> Right. Well, I think when we walk around we'll look at um we talk about different zones. And so what is immediately around a house you can your house you can do to reduce anything flammable catching um if there were a wildfire that came through your property. And then we go out from there into these what we call different zones. And the actions you take in the zones are different.

[00:06:32]Um what we're trying to do is, you know, think through as a wildfire approaches, one of the risks are the embers, it's not necessarily the fire front. An ember can travel up to a mile. And so when we go to someone's home to walk around and talk about their risks, we're trying to envision those embers coming down onto your property and what is around your home or on your home next to your home that can ignite that could carry that fire to the house itself. And then same thing outside of that immediate zone of the house, if there is a ground fire or a crown fire coming through, what you can do on your property so that fire intensity reduces as it approaches your home. And then again, with the mitigation efforts a homeowner has taken, if the wildland firefighters are able to lay that hose and, you know, set up sprinkler systems um to again help try and protect that structure.

[00:07:22]>> Okay.

[00:07:23]So when that request comes in, somebody says, "Yeah, I want to get engaged with Firewise in St. Louis County or Lake Cook County."

[00:07:33]I'm assuming that there's a cost involved. I mean, to get have timber management done on your place, if you're not running the chainsaw, you're paying somebody else to do it.

[00:07:43]>> Yep, it's not cheap work to do fuels reduction. I think So, starting at that assessment when a fire someone from Firewise comes out to walk your property, that's free. It's included in the program. It's part of our work. And then we the mitigation actions you can take as a homeowner are anywhere from just time to not a lot of money, and then there are some things that are going to put you into a much more expensive threshold as far as when you're looking at fuels reduction, driveway improvements. And so there's a spectrum from it just cost time and no money to it's going to be a significant investment. So.

[00:08:18]>> Okay. And so so the Firewise coordination of it, your role in other words is uh you're giving recommendations and and maybe even a road map for what could or should be done to improve that.

[00:08:30]>> Yep.

[00:08:30]>> And then it's up to the property owner.

[00:08:32]Uh I know there has been some federal funding available at different times uh to support some of the the cost uh involved with something like this. What's the status of that?

[00:08:44]>> It oscillates, you know, there are both federal and state grants that are available to do this type of work. Um some of them are administered through counties. Um there are cost-share programs for larger forest management that landowners can apply directly to.

[00:08:58]And but they're grants. They don't always reoccur every year. They're not a sure thing. They're competitive funding sources, so you have to apply and be successful with those. And they're typically limited and they're just not going to cover every home and every acre. And so we do the best we can to identify the highest wildfire risk areas um to really target those efforts when there is grant funding. And then there are options for communities to you know, pool resources and come together if they want to you know, kind of determine their own destiny and apply for grants themselves as whether it's a local volunteer fire department or a township or even a neighborhood road association um to choose what kind of mitigation work they would want to apply for funding to receive. So, but grant funding is it's not reliable and it's it's hard to be sustainable. And so, when it does come around, we try and target those areas of greatest need and risk.

[00:09:52]>> Okay. And are you able to help point people in the right direction on where those grants are and what is available?

[00:09:57]>> And we've applied for some of them directly ourselves as a nonprofit. We've worked with the county for the county to apply and receive those grants. So, >> Okay.

[00:10:05]>> depends.

[00:10:06]>> All right. Well, let's talk a little bit more about the notion that the reality that a lot of these properties on the Echo Fernberg and over on the Gunflint side abut federal land. Not just the wilderness, but Superior National Forest, maybe state lands. So, that's where the notion of timber management, forest management comes in.

[00:10:31]This is conversations we've had with a lot of different people from the Forest Service over the years at the Battle Portage from the District Ranger in Quetico-Superior, talking about the Fernberg Corridor project. I've attended a lot of those public meetings over over time.

[00:10:45]This is where that kind of rubber meets the road, in other words, that the the federal, state partners are cooperating with land owners, private land owners, cuz there's a lot of public land and that's I mean, even things like logging that maybe is cringey to some people, but is an important part of of the timber management here for fire risk reduction.

[00:11:06]>> Definitely. Yeah.

[00:11:07]>> Is that a fair thing to say?

[00:11:09]>> Yes.

[00:11:09]>> Okay. [laughter] And and how how are we seeing that unfold if you have any, you know, examples of how that's paying dividends in a time like this where fire is a huge reality in people's lives right now?

[00:11:24]>> Yeah, I mean, same thing when you talk about fire crossing boundaries arbitrarily, it's going to move through a landscape regardless of the ownership, you know, it's really important to look at forest management in that same lens.

[00:11:37]That the forest is a whole landscape and it's interconnected and it's really challenging when a property line determines what kind of management is done and to have that be continuous. And so there certainly is a lot of efforts to look at areas where we can collaborate both with federal, state, and private partners to how we how we can do that landscape level management. Um There is a great example happening on the North Arm Road right now where the Forest Service has done um many fuels reduction projects including prescribed fire on their federal land on the north side of the North Arm. On the other side of the North Arm you have the YMCA camps and then private land owners all along the North Arm that have invested their own funds into doing fuels reduction. Um they've also applied for some of those cost share grants through Minnesota to DNR and NRCS to do that cost share for larger forest management. Dovetail Partners did receive a community partner legacy grant through Minnesota DNR this year to look at fuels reduction on state land that book ends those federal acres. The idea again being that we have this contiguous fuels treatment but also, you know, forest restoration. So restoring those like long-lived conifers, the big pines we all love, taking out the dead and dying balsam, opening up the forest for wildlife, improving all the recreation assets there.

[00:13:05]And so those are the landscape level efforts that are ongoing and there's a lot of examples of those across the Arrowhead. Um you know, when you look at the Fernberg Landscape Management Project that um just cleared the NEPA process with the federal government, you know, they have determined what areas are going to be best used um you know, where timber sales should and could happen, where they would go in and replant, where there would be natural regeneration, where there could be prescribed fires. They really look at as a landscape to determine on federal land what forest management practice is going to be the most successful with the desired results. And then there's also interwoven in that county, state, and private land. And so again, how we can we work with partners and collaborate on opportunities for land management to happen across those federal boundaries. It's a huge effort. I mean, there's a ton of partners involved in it. There's a lot of collaboration, and it's ongoing.

[00:14:02]So.

[00:14:02]>> Okay.

[00:14:02]>> But it it's expensive. Fuels reduction is incredibly expensive. Um you know, timber sales, we have a challenge up here where we don't have the markets we used to have to have as many timber sales be successful. Um so we are faced with a lot of challenges for forest management up here.

[00:14:18]>> Okay. And this is really important talking point as we're discussing these wildfires and the closure of the Boundary Waters, evacuations, and homes, and so forth. And you know, of course a lot of outside media that come in, they want a story about somebody that escaped the fire in a really harrowing way, and all of these sort of catchier headlines, and so forth. But you know, when I've done coverage about the Fernberg Corridor project and some of that, there is a lot of interest in this, and it's extremely important, not just for the people who live here, but for people to understand who love the Boundary Waters, for all the people out there that say, you know, on social media put up, you know, we're praying there's there's planes flying overhead here, right? I I I I saw that either.

[00:15:01]This is happening in real time. And all those people, you know, put the prayer emoji up and say we're thinking of you and all these things. Like this is this is important. This is what you hopefully are are aware of about all the work that's going in on the ground ahead of time. The work that like you and and the Forest Service and other partners are doing about this, Teresa. So, it's really important.

[00:15:25]>> It is. Well, on forest management, it's critical to adapt and, you know, to work together.

[00:15:33]Um we have a forest that is fire dependent.

[00:15:39]Um so, it will burn. It's part of its ecosystem, but we have timber resources and homes and communities and recreation assets that we want to protect. And so, it's really looking at that short-term, long-term um you know, it's and it's our community.

[00:15:58]It's where we live. And so, we want to have those productive forests as well as forests that we can enjoy for recreation. So.

[00:16:04]>> That's right. And I know there are layers of complication when it comes to inside the wilderness and that's a separate conversation that we we've had with people like at The Nature Conservancy and in the Forest Service as well. Uh so, Teresa, before we go walk around the property here where there has been fire-wise management on this property. We're going to take a tour of it here shortly, but uh to our viewers in particular who are maybe recognizing you or going, "Hey, she looks really familiar from a recent video.

[00:16:32]>> [laughter] >> Weren't you out hanging out at Listening Point?" Uh you have a twin sister. Your twin sister is Kathleen.

[00:16:38]>> Yes, an identical twin. We both look and sound alike.

[00:16:41]>> And very much so, yes.

[00:16:43]Yeah, so uh so, that is Kathleen is the new director of the Listening Point Foundation. We were recently uh with her in earlier in July out at Listening Point. So, that's the if that's happening to you. Uh but you you're from Minnesota and then you spent some time in Alaska.

[00:16:58]>> Mhm. Yep.

[00:16:59]>> And so, you you know wildfires. I mean, this is uh but but in the context of what's happening now and and impacting Ely and just the intensity of these fires as we heard them describe last night uh talking about jumping a mile as as you referenced to, island hopping and just a lot of these very experienced I mean some of the elite firefighters in the country are here and they're going, "Wow.

[00:17:23]>> Yeah.

[00:17:24]>> This is serious."

[00:17:25]Uh what how are you doing first of all through through this?

[00:17:29]>> You know, doing fine. Staying busy. Um my family does have a um cabin on Farm Lake and so in the set zone. So, we went out my siblings and I just a few days ago to do all of the set procedure checklist to have that cabin, you know, ready to leave at a moment's notice. There's no one, you know, living there which is helpful as far as, you know, we're not worried about um one of our family members being displaced.

[00:17:56]Um but there certainly are a lot of people that they cannot access their home. They're in that go evacuation zone and did have to leave. And so neighbors and friends that are in that position of just sitting and waiting um until they hear if they can go back or what that fire's impact is going to have um for those folks in that area.

[00:18:16]Um and I was chatting with um another news organization recently about fires in Minnesota and if you look at a wildfire risk map, Minnesota Minnesota's Arrowhead looks it's the same risk level as out west. I mean this is our reality.

[00:18:34]We haven't had you know, catastrophic wildfires every year, but we did last year. They're happening this year and so the future of Minnesota is likely going to include more and more wildfires and so having these conversations of what that means for our state and our communities with these wildfires that are increasing in intensity and size and how we you know, manage that both in the preparation in the moment and then in recovery. What we need to do as communities and as a state to really, you know, acknowledge that reality.

[00:19:12]>> Absolutely. That's That's the crux of it. That's why this conversation why I'm so grateful we were able to connect today through you Sarah to talk about some of these things, which again, you know, we've done plenty of coverage ourselves about people escaping the fires and being evacuated by airplanes and stuff. That's certainly part of it, but this is This is another piece of that story and and an important one. So >> who live here and this is our community.

[00:19:36]It's where we work and live and have kids and jobs and >> Yes, exactly. Well, I'm curious to take a look around. There are definitely some some nice poplars here and birch and pine. So let's take a look around this property.

[00:19:49]>> Yeah, I volunteered my parents' home for this demonstration. [laughter] So it's got a bit good bit bad. So >> Okay, cool.

[00:19:56]>> Walk around.

[00:20:00]Okay, so part of the Firewise program is doing home assessments for anyone who's interested in inviting us out. We're happy to come walk your home around your house, look at your property and talk about the risks your home faces and mitigation steps you can take to reduce that risk.

[00:20:17]So using this house as an example, what we'll do is start at the immediate zone around the house and I'll point out mitigation actions that have been taken that are good to follow as well as ones that haven't been taken that home this homeowner could consider.

[00:20:33]All right.

[00:20:35]And I'm going to reference my cheat sheet so I don't leave anything out. So again, as we talked earlier, you want to think about those embers and that fire traveling towards your home and where can they land? And so you start with the roof. And so you want to make sure your roof is clear of leaf and needle litter.

[00:20:52]That includes your gutters and so you don't have an ember landing on your roof and igniting.

[00:20:57]You also want to make sure you have you know, you don't have any shingles that need to be replaced. That is work that you can get done or um that uh ember can sneak into. And so then you look at making sure you have enclosed vents along that bottom side of your roof. Again, trying to prevent embers from entering in.

[00:21:18]And then you want to go and look down is around the home is there anything that a ground fire and ember can catch and lead right up to your house itself. And so here we don't have any wood mulch, which is good. Um but we do have grass that could be cut. It is mostly gravel right up next to the house. But again, there's a 0 to 5 ft and that is what we really try to um emphasize should be a priority for everyone is to have a 0 to 5 ft zone around your home that is not ignitable.

[00:21:47]And so doing landscaping with rock, stone, um or again, just keeping grass really shortly cut and watered so you don't have um an ignition zone right next to your house.

[00:22:03]When you are in a situation where you need to start thinking about evacuation, again, there are some additional steps you can take in that moment. Removing things like your hanging pots, pots along your steps, getting those inside, taking the propane off your grill, putting that inside, shutting it off. Again, removing those things that can catch fire.

[00:22:28]Going back to some mitigation actions, another thing we look at are spaces underneath decks and stairs.

[00:22:35]So again, this is an area where an ember can get underneath there and smolder and so it's really important to have underneath your deck cleared.

[00:22:45]It is a very tempting place to store boats or extra building material because it's nice and dry and doesn't get exposed to sun. But again, you want to keep keep underneath your deck clear of storage.

[00:22:57]Uh next step to take is to encase it in 8-in mesh. And so again, you're preventing debris from getting underneath there, also from breaking up embers that were to enter through that way. So, really covering that whole area with that 8-in 8 8-in mesh.

[00:23:18]Again, to protect embers from underneath your crawl space.

[00:23:23]All right. So, and then looking at your windows, if you have any broken screens or cracked windows, again that's a long-term, more of a long-term effort.

[00:23:32]Um there's, you know, certainly a cost associated with that, but replacing anything that can crack and let embers in in a in a fire.

[00:23:40]So, those are kind of the punch points, the top list for right around your structure itself.

[00:23:47]All right. So, another thing we look at in these Firewise assessments and that's critical for your safety as well as responders' safety is your ingress and egress.

[00:23:56]Is it safe to both get into your property and out of your property? And so, there are a couple of things involved in that. One is a driveway that is wide enough for a huge truck to get down. We're talking about 14 ft wide and 14 ft tall for those big trucks to come down onto your property. And so, my folks are, you know, lucky in that they have the option and ability to do that pretty easily here. Um but it is a critical component of Firewise is to locate your ingress and egress. And so, looking at getting your driveway widened to that 12 to 14 ft wide and then 14 ft in height. Having a durable surface, it certainly does not need to be paved, but gravel, if you do have vegetation that grows, keeping that trimmed down really low so it's clear that there aren't any hazards in the way.

[00:24:45]And then clearly marking your driveway.

[00:24:48]Both with St. Louis Lake and Cook Counties, you can order your fire number, your address number from the county, and it's double-sided, it's reflective. A lot of folks who still have the old ones that it you can see them in the dark, they're one-sided. So, really contacting the county you live in to get those address signs that are double-sided, reflective, and so in at nighttime or in thick smoke, your address is clearly visible. So, again, looking at that safety of both getting in and out.

[00:25:17]The other thing, not only getting in is turning around. Again, here, um my folks put in a turnaround a couple years ago, so they do have a second way out of this property. If that's not an option available to you, really trying to clear a space as best you can for a truck to be able to turn around. Again, these are one of those items that are a higher cost um investment when you're talking about Firewise work.

[00:25:44]All right. So, moving away from the house, we go into that up to 30 ft zone.

[00:25:49]And so, this is the zone that you really want to thin out those trees, open up some space, make sure you don't have any trees that are again next to your house.

[00:26:00]If they were to ignite, that could ignite your home. Beyond that 30 ft is where you can start storing your firewood. You don't want it in any of these zones, especially not up against the house. Beyond that 30 ft, storing that firewood. So, again, you see a defensible space. This is what we're talking about when we talk about defensible space. The grass is cut short.

[00:26:20]That vegetation is 30 ft from the house.

[00:26:23]There are some crabapple trees that were left within 30 ft. Again, those aren't your pine trees, your conifers trees that are going to be um highly flammable. So, being selective, being intentional about what you're leaving in that 30-ft zone.

[00:26:36]You know, it's a balancing act because we also enjoy shade and privacy.

[00:26:42]If there are trees within that 30-ft zone that a landowner is not willing to cut down, what we talk about is at the very least limbing them up 10 ft. So, if there is a ground fire, if an ember lands on the ground, it's not catching those lower branches to bring it up to the tree and then sending those embers right to the house.

[00:27:01]Same thing with any trees that were overhanging your roof, cut those back so you don't have any overhanging branches.

[00:27:06]So again, if there's a trade-off, but at the very least with trees in this area, getting them limbed up and cut back from the house itself.

[00:27:16]Okay, so now we're into that extended zone beyond 30 ft if you have a wooded property. And so here we really look at thinning out trees and limbing them up.

[00:27:28]Again, creating a healthier forest.

[00:27:31]Forests don't like to be dense that you can't walk through, that wildlife can't pass through. And so for forest health, but also wildfire resiliency. And so when you start getting into this zone, you know, you want to again limb up these trees a third of their height or at least up to 10 ft. And so a project on our list here is to get that white pine limbed up.

[00:27:54]You also want to make sure you have an you're opening up the canopy. So if a tree does catch fire, it's not going to carry across the crowns. And so really again, looking at that canopy, opening it up, creating those spaces for those mature trees to have space to grow, to reach the sun, but also again to have some safety against that fire.

[00:28:15]You also want to look at thinning out the trees that are highly flammable.

[00:28:19]That's going to be your balsam. So we've done a lot of work here already. So you aren't going to see a lot of dead balsam. It's been taken out. We also removed some of those larger debris piles we had on the ground. Um But even over here, these are a few balsam that are under 6 in.

[00:28:37]We'll go ahead and take those out, cut them down to give more space to the adjacent spruce and white pine.

[00:28:43]And so that's really what you're doing as you move into that extended zone from your house. Creating an open forest, and improves its health.

[00:28:52]You can get trails in for yourself and wildlife. And again, it creates more resiliency against wildfires.

[00:28:59]And so, again, it's a long process.

[00:29:01]There are certainly important steps to take if you are in a ready set evacuation zone.

[00:29:09]If you're in the go zone, I hope you have left. And so, to increase safety for yourself and for those responders.

[00:29:15]But Firewise is an ongoing program.

[00:29:17]We're always here, and we certainly are happy to engage with any homeowner that wants us to come out or even chat on the phone about mitigation actions you can take to increase your wildfire resiliency and your safety.

[00:29:30]Great. And again, my name's Teresa Floberg. Thank you for watching. I hope you learn something, and we'll follow up with us um if you have any other questions. My contact information will be provided by Joe in this podcast.