"Five times before breakfast" Excerpt from Mullin v. Doe Oral Arguments

Added: 2026-04-30

[00:00:00]Well, could I ask about that particularly? Suppose that there was the same question asked from DHS to state department and instead of the um answer being state has no f foreign policy concerns with ending these TPS designations, suppose the answer was just state has no concerns with ending these TPS designations. Would that be appropriate? Would that be would that cross the line into that's fine? I mean that is a much harder case than ours because it might be true that no concerns encompasses country conditions you know and I'm not saying that definitely that person should win because I think uh you know you the the government I mean the plaintiffs may be entitled to to to argue that that's not actually what happened there but our case is so much easier than that.

[00:00:48]>> Well is it so much easier I mean I wonder I I mean the state department probably says no foreign policy concerns five times before breakfast every day.

[00:00:57]It's just it's that's what there's the State Department. They deal with foreign policy concerns. So if somebody asks them something, they say no foreign policy concerns. Does that really is that really going to make the difference between what is permissible consultation and what is not permissible consultation? The fact that they put the words foreign policy in the answer.

[00:01:17]>> So So two things. First, this same exact worded email, no foreign policy concerns or sometimes they've said foreign policy objections, but foreign policy concerns or objections is now the record in seven consecutive TPS terminations under the statute. And that's why all these district courts that they're talking about, right? It's the same thing. So, um it's not obvious to me that oh, they could have just written country conditions and they chose to write foreign policy, you know, but you know, I'd still say turn the square corner and make them make them do it. Um but beyond that there is uh you know we we have also uh >> when you say that when you say look this is this is uh obviously deliberate language because it was used in seven what are you suggesting about why they use this language?

[00:01:57]>> So look I I I don't I don't know uh but I think it is possible that they don't have a foreign policy concern but they're not comfortable saying that the armed conflict in Syria is over when their own website is saying if you go to Syria leave a DNA sample execute a will before you go. Uh, it's active armed conflict.