Here comes the snake! Drawn From Myth episode 2

[00:00:01]Hey, this is Kim from the future. I messed up the audio recording for this episode. Lucas has tried his best to fix it as good as you can, but it is what it is. Uh, still I think the episode is enjoyable and uh yeah, sorry. Enjoy.

[00:00:24]>> But I could test it and I didn't. [ __ ] because that's not as easy as you'd think.

[00:00:32]>> What in mythology is easy or defined very like you know set in stone let's say.

[00:00:39]>> Yeah. And that's one of the fascinating things with myth and folklore.

[00:00:44]We going to teach the play one.

[00:00:51][music] Welcome to drawing from myth with Kim Dasm.

[00:01:14]My name I already said my name. We should get this intro figured out. I'm Kias Holl also called an una. I'm an artist from Bergen, Norway. And I will be drawing something mythical while I talk to my co-host.

[00:01:32]So, I'm Lucas Lucas Wnner and I'm a state station and anthropologist of culture and I will be co-hosting.

[00:01:40]>> You're a what now? You're an >> anthropologist of culture.

[00:01:44]>> Anthropologist >> of culture. Cultural anthropologist.

[00:01:47]That's uh that was the thing. Yeah.

[00:01:49]Yeah.

[00:01:49]>> Yes. Yes. And uh what we're going to be doing is we're going to I'm going to be drawing something uh around the theme and we are going to be exploring this that theme as well as we can in the future. We hope to do a lot of different things. So if you have suggestions what you would like to see me draw or what you would like to hear us talk about then comment below. Or if you have anyone you want us to talk to to have guests then please do comment below. And the theme for today will be snakes.

[00:02:38]>> Snakes.

[00:02:39]>> Snakes.

[00:02:41]Not snakes on a plane but snakes in mythology.

[00:02:49]And uh I think what we need to do first is to try to define a mythological snake because that's not as easy as you'd think.

[00:03:05]>> What in mythology is easy or defined very like you know set in stone let's say.

[00:03:13]>> Yeah. And that's one of the fascinating things with myth and folklore. And we we're going to use the term myth very widely. We're going to uh delve into uh ancient myth and folklore. we're going to uh take from modern myth and folklore and also you know when we won't talk about the mythical vehicles of storytelling that that are current like movies and games and metal and all other stuff that might be interesting. But I think when we are talking about mythological snakes, we have to come to terms with one thing and that is that there is very little difference between snakes and dragons.

[00:04:19]No, it isn't.

[00:04:21]>> Yes, they're the same.

[00:04:24]>> No. Oh, no. Uh, let's phrase it differently.

[00:04:28]>> It is and it isn't. Depends where you looking. It uh what is your your point of view where you where you starting from? If you think about the Germanic languages, they might be the truth and they might be that uh that's actually it's a thing. When you have a a drake or a dragon and a snake or a worm, they may have a Can you explain it?

[00:04:54]>> Yeah. So, so my idea is that when you look at the words for snake in whether it be uh Indo-Uropean languages or it is in Chinese, you often find that the word for snake and uh dragon are the same uh or uh are borrowed from another uh language.

[00:05:24]where it's the same. So, so for instance in uh Norwegian in Old Norse you would say that uh snake is an ordain for snakes and for dragons.

[00:05:44]Uh and you also have the lone word draa which is the same as dragon which comes from Greek and that is uh also means snake and dragon snake vy all of serpent worm all can interchangeably both mean the animal snake uh and uh the mythical creature a dragon and and therefore what I'm proposing is that we we look at a sort of a a snake dragon construct which is a spectrum a and on one side of the uh spectrum you have the snake like things which animalike things and on the other you have the dragonlike things and and and even further than that on one side you have the snake the subnake like things. So you have things like an earthworm which can be snake like you have things like uh garden hose which in Norwegian is hoglanga or a garden snake.

[00:07:07]Uh you have sneaking snaking around. You have all these things that are snake like h and on the other you have the e dragon the >> four legs four legs a head and a and a wings and stuff like that.

[00:07:27]>> It can be even more than that. It can have as many heads as you want.

[00:07:32]>> Yeah. But I mean it's like four legs has a wings like the uber uber like the all included.

[00:07:38]>> Yeah. But but but some of them are very different like like you have in in uh in Mesopotamian uh the creation story you have uh Tiiamat a sort of a water dragon >> depends because it might be either a snake or a dragon depends on what sources you see and uh enma for example.

[00:08:00]>> Yeah but that is uh a part of the creation of the world.

[00:08:06]>> Yes.

[00:08:07]>> Yes. from its body and that is more of a cosmic dragon.

[00:08:16]And I think also that these two terms snake and and dragon uh are I think there are some different sources for them because even though we're talking about in mythology we're talking about dragons and they do have features that are similar to the the uh garden snake. They have snake- like features.

[00:08:49]I think we find a lot of the sources of these uber dragons tales.

[00:08:57]We find them in things like uh the cosmos, like the Milky Way, like comets, like rivers, like volcanoes.

[00:09:08]>> Yeah.

[00:09:08]>> Yeah.

[00:09:09]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[00:09:09]>> And we put this animal snake onto these things.

[00:09:16]While we also in mythology have things that are more on the animal side of a snake that that are not drawn from the mythic cosmos but from stories where we put sometimes we put a talking snake in there because there are always or often mythologies and folklore have these tales of a time when animals could talk or even trees could talk and there you have talking snakes which are on this dragon snake spectrum but they are completely on the animal.

[00:09:56]>> So I will totally agree with the spectrum although I will not agree to the that the snake and the ser the snake serpent and the dragon are the same definitely not from every single point of view. uh when you say about the language Slavic language doesn't have this be as as far as I know there is no one origin for both words because smokeok so dragon and von so snake are coming not from the same if I'm wrong uh just correct in me in the in the comments just engage with us please and uh that's one and not always a culture has to have a dragon when they have a snake as far As I know, I don't remember there is any dragon in Aboriginal Australian culture. Although there is a snake, >> rainbow snake.

[00:10:47]>> I would put put on the I would put that on the cosmic snake dragon side. And of course, when we're talking about things like this, you can't put a single definition around anything.

[00:11:06]This is just sort of a loose framework to play around and to recognize that >> uh even the ebid snake, the cosmic, the world snake, the the urbos biting his own tail >> in all its dragonness has snake like features and even the common garden snake has dragon-like features in some sense.

[00:11:38]>> Yes, that's why I told you that I'm totally agree with the spectrum. So, we have a fader when one goes up and the other feature goes down and not about that's the same. That's definitely on a fader or on a spectrum when we can mix and match different things and they never going to be strictly like as I said set in stone like we begin the whole conversation with the mythology.

[00:12:02]There is nothing ever set in stone.

[00:12:04]Everything is moving and changing because mythology is something which is alive.

[00:12:08]>> Yeah. And so what we will be focusing on today is on that spectrum is something that is uh closer to the animal side, the snake side of the spectrum, further away from the dragon side.

[00:12:27]>> Yeah. Yeah. Uh so uh disregarding dragons and Urubus's Midgard serpents, what's your relationship with snakes?

[00:12:42]>> Uh I like them very much. Uh since I was a kid, my uncle who loves animals more than other uh animals that don't have two legs, let's say, uh he had snakes.

[00:12:53]He always showed me snakes uh from start like a boa or something like that or small pythons to a just normal like a garden snake or something like that. But but I mean like a living living garden snake. We we call it like that. And sometimes when I went to to a biology lesson I got like a skin they they they they check they have a you know the leftover when they ch change the skin.

[00:13:17]>> So that's my personal thing. uh from mythology I was always uh into Greek mythology. So like you have Medusa with the heads of serpents.

[00:13:32]>> Yes.

[00:13:33]>> Which I have even a ring on my hand. So then then Yeah. And I have a serpent tattoo as well on my hand.

[00:13:43]>> Serpent uh uh sk serpent uh skeleton. So yeah, I really like serpents and snakes.

[00:13:51]>> Yeah, when I was four years old, I we lived for a year or half a year in Spain and we live kind of hippieish uh parents. So So we lived two different places. One of them was old sort of house upon a hill. Uh a and there was no running water there. Uh so our toilet was just a hole in the ground in some ruins next to the next to the house. And I became convinced that there lived a snake in a little hole in the wall right beside the toilet.

[00:14:38]>> Was it?

[00:14:39]>> And everyone said like, "No, no, no.

[00:14:41]There's no snake. No, snakes don't dig holes like that."

[00:14:47]And then to my utter joy and to the terror of the rest of the family, uh, one day we found a snake around one and a half meter long, kind of fat, right sitting right by the toilet, right where I said it was going to be. And uh uh yeah, my father and my kind of stepfatherish thing at the time had to kill a snake which took a lot of work.

[00:15:25]>> Was it a venomous snake or >> uh I don't It was in Spain. I I have no idea about snakes in Spain. Snakes on a plane. Yes. Snakes in Spain. No.

[00:15:37][laughter] I >> growing up I I you know as an artist I I loved snakes but uh growing up there was also this very cool rock and roll thing about snakes because Alice Cooper >> oh yeah >> had a snake and I [ __ ] loved Alice Cooper and the is it constrictor album I I think it's a constrictor and then also uh wrestling you had Jake the Snake.

[00:16:15]>> Oh, I don't know that you know you better.

[00:16:16]>> Yeah.

[00:16:17]>> And uh I think even one time Alice Cooper was manager for Jake the Snake.

[00:16:24]So worlds collided wrestling and rock and roll. H >> uh and yeah, so I've had a love affair with snakes ever since I was right about the toilet snake.

[00:16:42]>> Good to be right. Right.

[00:16:43]>> It's beautiful to be right.

[00:16:48]>> Okay. Uh how about you? You you do you have any pop culture snakes that >> uh you mean like a contemporary now?

[00:16:59]>> Contemporary snakes.

[00:17:00]>> Mhm. So from Harry Potter like the the whole thing with >> Do you like Harry Potter?

[00:17:06]>> Yeah, I do. I don't like the author.

[00:17:08]>> No, no, no.

[00:17:09]>> But I like Harry Potter. Yes. Totally.

[00:17:11]>> No, my my wife likes the book's not the author.

[00:17:16]>> Yeah. Uh but u I've never had any relation to Harry Potter.

[00:17:23]>> There are snakes there. There's a basilisk.

[00:17:26]>> Oh there. Yeah. So the whole house is like a snake base. So you know but for me snakes uh more like before Harry Potter there was vampire the masquerade for me. So that's how old I am. And there were four lovers of set. They were total like they had own discipline. If you know vampire the masquerator roleplay game >> I was one of vampire clans who call or they called they have a different name now but at the time they called followers of set and they were have own discipline called serpentes already really good about it uh feel really good about it and um uh I really like that that um clan although my beloved clan was not more like rat team which we talk a before other thing from pop culture and snakes.

[00:18:20]Huh?

[00:18:22]Do you have anything in your mind?

[00:18:24]>> Well, well, I remember the snake in Conan the Barbarian with >> Yes. The Setites. Yes.

[00:18:32]>> Yeah. And that's setites as well. There there's something there. Um, and uh, I have to say Conan the Barbarian is one of the best worst movies.

[00:18:46]>> I don't know if worse because it was huge for that time.

[00:18:50]>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But there is something about the screenplay and the scenes that every single scene in itself is perfect.

[00:18:59]It's just beautifully written, beautifully directed, beautifully acted.

[00:19:03]everything.

[00:19:04]When you put put it all together, it's kind of a slow movie.

[00:19:08]>> It is, but it's as written from uh from a pop fiction books written by Horde. So, you know, it's um >> Have you read the books?

[00:19:22]>> Yeah.

[00:19:22]>> Yes. And I love them. I The thing about Robert E. Howard as a writer is that he wrote lines where every word is like a hammer.

[00:19:35]>> Yeah.

[00:19:35]>> It's it's very direct, very like there's no frills and it's beautifully written for the pulp that it is.

[00:19:45]>> Yeah. And it's I love that kind of pulp.

[00:19:48]Uh anything else then uh Conan for you?

[00:19:53]Uh, not that I of course paner in GI Joe.

[00:20:00]>> I forgot about it. [laughter] Jesus. You know when I was last time when I was watching GI Joe although I wasn't so huge fan of GI Joe. It was a too militaristic for me. But yeah. Yeah, definitely it was there. You know, when I was kid, I I had a few careers uh blotted out for myself, and that was uh uh and we've talked about them all. It was artist, rock and roll star, wrestler, or G soldier.

[00:20:34]>> So, you are 204.

[00:20:36][laughter] >> Maybe not a star, but you still do wrestling.

[00:20:40]>> I I'm training wrestling. I'm a trainee.

[00:20:42]Yes.

[00:20:42]>> Yeah. Yeah. So you are closer to two from those four.

[00:20:48]>> Yes, I am definitely.

[00:20:50]>> Yeah. Uh the any other thing which comes to to to serpents although it's just the name it's the band Tiamat which I have a long relationship not lately but for some time in the beginning of 2000s I had >> and that's definitely coming from the mythology.

[00:21:08]>> Yeah. But but that is more on the cosmic scale.

[00:21:11]>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But uh yeah, and I really loved the cover art from Panta, the great song and tren which was a rattlesnake. I had the t-shirt and that's that was the f it wasn't the first Panta album I heard or listened to but it was definitely the my beloved one at the time when it I think it was released in 1996 and definitely the cover with the snake helped me out to pick it up and I I had the t-shirt for like seven eight years until I it was just had so many holes it was more holes than a t-shirt.

[00:21:46]>> That sounds familiar.

[00:21:47]>> Yeah. Yeah. Uh, if we go back a little bit, not necessarily to Harry Potter, but but one of the snakes that I even though I've don't know much about Harry Potter, I do know that one of the snakes is a basilisk.

[00:22:03]>> Yeah.

[00:22:04]>> And basilisks are often portrayed as these snake rooster hybrids.

[00:22:10]>> Mhm.

[00:22:12]Uh but in they appear they even appear in some Norwegian folklore >> do they?

[00:22:21]>> Uh yes and uh they are not originally from here but but the word um uh becomes a lone word here as well. So we have basilisks that are described as a sort of troll uh because that was when the word troll was uh used for much more than what we think of as troll today. and they are born from uh that it might be uh a a snake or or a rooster that that lays an egg in a pile of manure of [ __ ] >> Yeah, I know what a manure is. Yeah.

[00:23:09]>> Yeah. So uh that's and then out of that egg uh which is a an unholy egg because it uh comes from the rooster and not the the hen comes the basilisk which is sometimes a a sort of a snake. They can even be a hogm in Norwegian >> which is the only venomous snake we have viper common European vip or something like that.

[00:23:42]>> Mhm.

[00:23:43]>> And um yeah so those are uh I haven't really researched the the basilisk for for this time. So I'm doing this all from memory now. Mhm.

[00:24:00]>> But but the basilisk is a sort of a folklore mythological snake that's firmly in the supernatural but still on the snake end of the spectrum.

[00:24:19]So for that one, you're going to have as well um Typhen in Greek mythology.

[00:24:27]>> Again, that that's very cosmic, isn't it?

[00:24:30]>> Oh, yeah. Okay. So, Saraphim Saraphim are the fiery snakes. It's not cosmic. It's just a snake. Just fy. It's later on it was as a >> Where is that from?

[00:24:43]>> Hebrew.

[00:24:45]>> Oh, yeah. And funny stuff. uh the serpent of the bronze which was on like a stick was if you touch it it was uh keeping you safe from saraphim who were the fiery serpents.

[00:25:01]So there you have it and that's not cosmic. Uh, and then you have as well a hidna which is a viper like you have hog.

[00:25:10]>> Mhm.

[00:25:11]>> That's a Greek uh serpent uh kind of monster uh with a m's body and it has a the lower part of a serpent.

[00:25:20]>> Mhm.

[00:25:21]>> It's not a dragon and nothing cosmic.

[00:25:23]It's just a monster which is a snake or serpent actually and a hidden I think it was in the Witcher. Witcher is a lot of stuff.

[00:25:31]>> Yeah. So, so, so, uh, The Witcher games, which I'm very fond of, >> uh, are they're made by a Polish studio called CD Project Red.

[00:25:44]>> Yeah.

[00:25:46]>> And they are set in a sort of a fictional Europe, East Europe type.

[00:25:55]>> General Europe, I would say.

[00:25:57]>> General European, I would say.

[00:25:59]>> Yeah.

[00:26:00]uh but with a focus on the eastern part.

[00:26:04]>> Central eastern. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:26:06]>> Uh uh and it draws a lot from uh Slavic and Polish folklore and mythology.

[00:26:17]>> But but it fictionalizes it quite a lot.

[00:26:20]>> Totally. Totally. Totally. Mhm.

[00:26:24]And but I do I think there are I don't remember much snakes from the Witcher games at least.

[00:26:37]>> There were was it Basilisk?

[00:26:40]>> There there is a basilisk.

[00:26:42]>> I think it is. And uh >> it's been a while since I played them.

[00:26:46]>> I I I started doing when uh City Project Red started to release games for Mac. I had my second and first on a Mac uh for Mac I mean the the the the own uh uh processors and I played the second part like four or five months ago and I still don't remember any snakes although uh I remember there were hidden but they were not so much were like more spiderlike I don't remember please correct us in the in the in the comments but there is another culture which has a lot of snakes or serpents uh like meo America.

[00:27:27]>> Yeah, >> they have.

[00:27:29]>> Yeah, >> quite a lot.

[00:27:30]>> So, so I know that at least in uh uh Maya and Aztec uh culture you you have uh the feathered serpent quite bottle >> that's that's Aztec. So Aztec actually is Mexican because Aztec name is it's a very modern thing de Mexican culture >> and the the Cotto is also something you you even though you don't have the the necessarily uh the name uh you find the same sort of deity >> in the earlier Mesoamerican uh cultures as well and in the Maya culture. So it's shared between Maya and Aztec.

[00:28:23]>> Yeah. And it's very tonic like uh bind although not every because the the no part of them have the typical konic vibes like you have in European culture, right? Where is something which is digging into the earth or the dirt and it's coming from the earth, right? But then you have the the the serpent which which flies because it's feathered serpent. I think he flies right. And then uh >> but again I would argue that these are far on the cosmic uh nonan animal side of of this equation or or on the dragon side.

[00:29:05]>> Then they there's not dragon that's just a serpent. I definitely I think there's a difference.

[00:29:12]>> Okay. All right. I get it. I get it. Uh >> crucify me if I'm wrong.

[00:29:16]>> I am not going to crucify you. [snorts] Uh although the the the whole symbol of a serpent which is then visible uh from the tales of of the mythology, right? Doesn't matter if it's Maya or the metican.

[00:29:36]It shows you that the serapen has a huge impact on the culture uh from uh either being uh one of the main characters of the world building for them or uh being a really important one and uh and has both which is which is very interesting has both uh functions. It's it's either actonic one so very binded to the earth.

[00:30:05]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[00:30:05]>> Or very eerie and and and airies or like like the uh I always have problems with saying it.

[00:30:15]>> These are difficult words to pronounce but but we will be pronouncing a lot of things wrong.

[00:30:20]>> Quotle.

[00:30:23]>> I always laughing when someone is saying something in German wrong and then I I'm here apologizing.

[00:30:30]Yes. Uh yeah. But those you have that's that's again a spectrum. You have everything which is more heavy and dirty and going being binded to the ground and something which is eerie and flying and binded to the to the Yeah. the air.

[00:30:49]>> Yeah.

[00:30:50]>> And and both by the way may be evil or not evil destructive destructive or creative.

[00:30:59]In uh Mapucha myth, you have also two cosmic um uh serpents or snakes uh that called Kaikai and Tentan.

[00:31:12]>> Uh one of them is associated with with water and the other with earth. And in the creation uh mythology uh there it is this fight uh between them that shapes a lot of the land and their humans have to to like go >> uh flee uh from the mountains that are created from this battle between these two. uh one of them good and one of them bad and one of them associated with earth earthquakes but again very cosmic snakes >> and in Norse mythology you have a lot of cosmic snakes as cosmic dragons >> like nid hog gnaws at the trees alive roots you have uh yurman gand the world serpent who is sort of a urbu a snake that coils around the earth and bites or bites its own tails a symbol of infinity.

[00:32:16]>> But you also have a few um folklore and mythological snakes like uh you have Ragnar Ruth which is uh is killed by being thrown in a snake pit I think which doesn't sound pleasant. And then in the story of Lucia.

[00:32:40]>> Oh yeah.

[00:32:41]>> You have a very mythological >> Yeah.

[00:32:45]>> But still maybe more snake like >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:32:50]>> Because when L is becomes unfriendly with the gods with the other gods >> Mhm.

[00:33:00]He is imprisoned and bound uh with the guts of one of his sons because that's how you do it.

[00:33:10]>> Yeah. The proper Germanic method >> inside a or under a mountain. So probably inside some cave and uh Scarda the the UN and now often portrayed as a ski goddess because she's associated with uh hunting and skiing.

[00:33:34]She binds a snake in the roof above Luca.

[00:33:41]>> Mhm.

[00:33:41]>> And that snake Viper um drips venom on uh to Luca. But Segan, the wife of >> Luca, >> has a bowl, and this is something I've drawn many times. One of my favorite images to draw, has a bowl of um of uh an empty bowl, which she holds over Lucas head, and she stops the venom from hitting him. But every once in a while, she has to pour out the bowl. And whenever the venom hits Luca, it's so painful that he screams and shakes. And that's how earthquakes >> are created.

[00:34:33]>> Yeah.

[00:34:34]>> And I think this is a beautiful sort of little tale because I don't think that people of the Viking age ever actually believed that this was the physical reality of I I think they believe in the physical reality of a lot of the tales and the things around them and the magical properties of snakes and all of that, but this type of story is seems to me to be more of a the kids ask you a question >> and you try to describe it. You say, "Yeah, maybe maybe it's like this." A and you're you you are it is a story to sort of make the world more living. And I don't know if this is a cosmic snake or not, but but it seems like a more of a >> It's not a cosmic because it doesn't have nothing to do with creation or a bigger like it's it's a part of >> still.

[00:35:38]>> Yeah. But it's it's a yeah it's a it's a part of a of some kind of a punishment like uh we have the rats which are part of the justice. This this is just a a tool >> right and to tell the story. Uh by the way I just realized there is another uh maybe not um cosmic being which is snake like it's a taten from nealoon which has what this is the south Germanic myth which as well has a scandinavian uh part uh of it was I think as well written down by story uh but So sun writes down in the saga stories that are very similar to so >> and that there was a ver there was a vim so it was kind of like a snake but it wasn't like a serpent it wasn't as well for me uh a part of the cosmic scheme. It was as well a tool to sh to tell a story that uh because it was part of you need to kill it right to get the to get the uh rin that was it.

[00:36:57]>> It wasn't it or I'm I'm totally misleading.

[00:37:00]>> I I think I I think this is more on the dragon side again.

[00:37:04]>> Okay.

[00:37:05]>> Yeah. This this this border between these two is really shaky. [laughter] shaky. Yeah. But those stories are just those stories. Those creatures are there to tell a story, right? It's not like you need to >> have that creature or it's like a as we said set in stone creature which is part of our our story. It's it has a has a point.

[00:37:31]>> Yeah, absolutely. But I think when you're talking about uh I mean the the uh dragon in the myth the story of the neolong is is that fafne is it >> in the neong? No no no in fafne it was I think in the English saga wasn't it?

[00:37:58]Yeah, see uh >> there was in Yeah. Or it could be as well called.

[00:38:08]>> Yeah.

[00:38:10]>> Yeah. Um but um I think when we look at um more snake like snakes, we find a lot of symbology with I mean like the the modern uh medical symbol is the >> Yeah.

[00:38:30]>> the the rod with the one snake. Yeah.

[00:38:32]And uh you have a hermetic rod with two snakes. And you have this snake perhaps because of how it coils that is associated with eternal life with uh with magic and >> not only with sexuality as well like in a modern satanic uh religions it's it's the symbol of sexuality and not only on those because it was as well part of sexuality in a lot of other mythology. I can't imagine why snakes would be portrayed as sexual.

[00:39:13]Just seems wrong.

[00:39:15]>> What's interesting is they connected to women more than men. Although they are very follic.

[00:39:21]>> Yes, they are. Um but one of the sort of first probably A first snake stories is uh the climax of probably the first story or the the one of the oldest stories we have written down.

[00:39:49]>> Yeah. I mean you mean in our culture >> in written down at all we have uh the snake in Gilgos.

[00:39:59]>> Oh that one you have.

[00:40:01]>> Yes, that one.

[00:40:01]>> I thought that you going to go the other way.

[00:40:04]>> No good. We're we're getting there.

[00:40:06]We're getting there.

[00:40:07]>> Yes, that's there. I can agree. Yes.

[00:40:10]>> In uh the epic of Gilgamesh, which is I mean if you haven't read uh a good modern translation of it, >> read it because it's a very fun story.

[00:40:23]>> Mhm. It it is kind of like when Superman and Hulk meet up and they try to bash each other's head in and then they figure out, no, we're equally strong, so they go and and beat up bad guys.

[00:40:43]And that is King Gilgamesh and the animal man and kid.

[00:40:48]>> Yeah. Uh, and they beat up some wrong animals, including they killed the heavenly bull.

[00:41:00]And spoilers, uh, Inana or Ishtar, the goddess, which is also associated with snakes. Snakes are very feminine.

[00:41:13]She um manages to get and Ku killed. So he becomes sick and dies.

[00:41:27]And this is when uh when Gilgamesh sort of gets to ter has to come to terms with his own mortality for the first time and uh he is in a state of shock in grief and then He goes on an epic quest which includes links to the biblical flood myth and uh you know travel to the underworld and all of these things that we know from a lot of other myths >> and finally he I don't remember what he finds is it seed something that will of immortality.

[00:42:27]>> I don't remember either because this was a long time I was doing it.

[00:42:32]And >> we need corrections here.

[00:42:34]>> Yeah, we need corrections. But the only like when I when I think about uh the old Mesopotamian culture, then for me it's animish and tat as but that's a very cosmic thing.

[00:42:46]>> Yeah. But but the thing here is uh that as he I don't remember if it's a seed or a drink or it's something that will give immortality.

[00:43:00]>> We can check always then >> and uh as he has it in his hands he is distracted and a snake scir away with it.

[00:43:13]So the key to eternal life is taken stolen by a snake.

[00:43:24]>> That's a plant of immortality.

[00:43:25]>> A plant of immortality.

[00:43:27]>> Yes.

[00:43:27]>> And that leads us to what I'm drawing here.

[00:43:32]>> Oh, >> because there are a lot of parallels with another stake.

[00:43:40]>> Which one?

[00:43:42]>> Yeah. Which one? the the uh for a lot of people the OG bad guy uh which you would think if you you're talking about biblical mythology, Christian mythology, you would think that we would classify the snake in the Garden of Eden as a cosmic snake.

[00:44:07]>> No. uh because it is often linked to that serpent called Satan in Revelations >> which is on the other side of the book.

[00:44:19]>> Yeah. which is on the other side of the book. A and that link between those two, you know, at the time when um uh the the Garden of Eden stories were written down, there existed no Satan in this.

[00:44:42]>> Even if it existed, it was a hassa and it was a function of a person.

[00:44:45]>> Yeah. not no personalized Satan, but no concept of a personalized Satan or >> adversary.

[00:44:55]And the snake in the Garden of Eden is truly just a snake.

[00:45:05]>> Just a snake. And was it evil?

[00:45:09]>> Because I don't think so.

[00:45:11]>> What was even evil with about him?

[00:45:15]Yeah. So, so let's go through the story first because um the Bible starts with two creation accounts.

[00:45:22]>> Yes. Um the first one uh in Genesis 1 is >> very much um uh a perfect creation of the earth with a very powerful >> uh God type being, a divine entity that is is closer to what we think of as um God.

[00:45:55]>> Yeah.

[00:45:57]>> Still a bit far away but closer but in the Garden of Eden story which comes later. It comes from chapter 2 of Genesis but it's probably an earlier story.

[00:46:12]We meet a very anthropomorphic God.

[00:46:15]>> Yeah.

[00:46:16]>> Who goes around and makes the earth. Not in the same way as in the first. not all knowing.

[00:46:22]>> He's not all knowing.

[00:46:22]>> Not all knowing. And he has a body and he has he can only know what he sees as he's there. He is a person god thingy above.

[00:46:37]>> Yeah.

[00:46:39]>> And he creates things with mistakes.

[00:46:43]He creates >> Oh, no. man and has man um as in the sex or the gender man create names for all the animals because he doesn't bother doing it himself. A and then he figures out, oh no, man is a little bit lonely. We should get him a helper. But there's no helpers around.

[00:47:08]>> But it's really weird because a lot of the animals had already the other sex, right?

[00:47:15]Who knows? Who knows? It isn't described there.

[00:47:18]>> It's not. All right, let's let's continue.

[00:47:23]>> Okay. So, so this is kind of weird.

[00:47:26]Yeah. Um but uh they they finally God figures out, oh, we can make him a partner.

[00:47:43]uh out of one of his sides and whether that is a rib or it is a equal part we we don't really know but I'm leaning more towards it being sort of a equal part >> cutting him up and making him another and and that at this point they are equal.

[00:48:07]>> Yeah. And God says to the unnamed man and woman uh that uh they are free to go around in the garden and to eat whatever fruit they find >> from whatever tree they want >> from whatever tree they find. But there are two special trees. One is is the tree of eternal life which they are apparently allowed to eat from. The other is the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

[00:48:45]>> Mhm.

[00:48:46]>> And uh uh that's okay by them because they can follow rules.

[00:48:59]>> Mhm.

[00:49:01]But then comes the snake.

[00:49:04]>> But you didn't say that they cannot eat from one tree. And that's the >> Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I forgot that detail which is the most important detail.

[00:49:12]>> You cannot eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

[00:49:16]>> You can eat from all the trees except the one with the knowledge of good and evil.

[00:49:21]>> Yeah.

[00:49:22]>> Because if you do that, then you will surely die.

[00:49:26]>> Yes. That's what was said.

[00:49:28]>> That's what God says.

[00:49:30]And then comes along a snake. And the snake is more clever than the other animals. And they specify that it's more clever than other animals.

[00:49:44]>> Yes.

[00:49:44]>> If they thought the snake was the great enemy of God, they would have specified that the snake is the great enemy of God. But they don't. They specify that it's smarter than the average bear.

[00:49:56]>> Yeah.

[00:49:57]>> Or snake. and has one only one head >> and has only one head.

[00:50:02]>> Yes. So this is a snake. This is a animal snake.

[00:50:06]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[00:50:07]>> And that animal snake uh goes to Eve and says, "Why don't you eat of that tree?"

[00:50:21]Well, well, God said that we're not allowed we're allowed to eat of any tree except that one tree.

[00:50:29]And uh so, so yeah, why not? Because we will surely die. No, no, no, no, says the snake, you will not die. You will become as gods.

[00:50:41]>> Yeah. knowing the difference between good and evil and Eve listens to the snake which we're this is what we're uh draw trying to draw right now and I realize that I I've placed the ground a little bit making Eve a little bit too longlegged so I need to push up the ground a little bit >> but I can do that because it's art.

[00:51:13]>> Yeah, it is. It is. [laughter] It is. It is.

[00:51:15]>> So, Eve uh eats the fruit and then she gets uh the woman eats the fruit because she hasn't gotten name.

[00:51:25]>> Mhm.

[00:51:26]>> And then the man eats the fruit >> because the woman said, "Yeah, you should eat it because it's fine."

[00:51:32]>> Yeah. Uh and it is fine. And then they hear God come strolling around and they realize they're naked because somehow the knowledge of good and evil means the knowledge that being naked is [laughter] evil is naughty. Nakedness very naughty.

[00:51:52]>> Before this nakedness not naughty after this nakedness very naughty naughty nakedness.

[00:51:58]>> Yeah.

[00:51:59]>> And uh uh they realize God is coming along. So they sew together uh uh clothes from fig leaf >> m >> coverings and they hide. And God asks you, "Hey, where are you? Wh why are you hiding? Did you eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil?"

[00:52:26]>> No.

[00:52:27]>> Yeah. A bit.

[00:52:30]Only a >> tiny.

[00:52:31]>> Only a bit.

[00:52:32]>> Yeah. And uh then God says, "Oh no, you shouldn't have done that because now you know the difference between good and evil and you are like us, us multiple gods."

[00:52:54]And uh therefore he has to toss them out of the god ard of evil. And he has to punish the snake by giving the snake or by take um taking away snake crawl around apparently taking away his limb.

[00:53:08]So what I'm drawing here all wrong because I haven't drawn this uh legs yet.

[00:53:14]>> You need to >> I'm going to >> Yeah, but you forgot about one thing aside of taking these legs. Okay, let's finish. But what are the the the punish?

[00:53:23]What is the punishment? Yeah. So the punishment is that that a snake should crawl on the ground. It will be despised by women and children who will um crush its head whenever they see it.

[00:53:36]>> Yeah.

[00:53:37]>> Uh and um the woman will uh be subservient to the man >> more like >> ruled over by the man and her um and childbirth will be painful.

[00:53:53]>> Yeah. Uh and uh she will also bleed once a month probably. Uh and this is sort of this this story it comes after the the grand cosmic >> uh creation of the earth. The the later story which is put earlier in the Bible but it is more kind of of a practical story like a a description.

[00:54:27]How come childbirth is uh painful? Well, you know, garden trees. How come snakes don't have legs? We can't garden trees.

[00:54:39]>> Two more things you forgot. One is that men like males. Now, we had to uh do a really hard labor.

[00:54:46]>> Oh, yeah.

[00:54:47]>> To to uh get food. And why people will die? Because then he puts a an angel in uh to uh guard to to guard the entrance to to Eden. So they cannot eat from the other tree which is the tree of eternal life.

[00:55:09]>> Yes. So, so this is what ties it together with the Gil image is that the snake is the one respon the animal snake is the one responsible for uh in a sense uh tearing um humans away from eternal life.

[00:55:32]And in addition tossing us out of the garden where we could just go and pluck food and >> and be stupid >> and be stupid be very stupid >> which is a luxury >> because we and totally ignorant because >> not knowing good and evil.

[00:55:48]>> Yeah. And how you will know that you shouldn't eat from the tree when you don't know that it's it's not something you should do because the tree the fruits from the tree will tell you oh will give you the possibility to know that's that not what you're supposed to do. [snorts] >> But again this kind of like the Loki story.

[00:56:10]I think that this is a a a story that that's not supposed to be it's not supposed to lay out cosmic truth in this sense. It's supposed to dis give a satisfying explanation for why some [ __ ] happens.

[00:56:31]>> Yeah. Gives you a >> So it wraps up a lot of questions. Why do we have to die? Check. Why don't snake have legs? Check. Why is child birth um um painful? Check. Why do we have to toil? Check. Solves all those in a kind of funny way. And also it it it again it's sort of one of the reasons why we can say it's in a kind of funny way is because it has this anthropomorphic god who don't only make mistakes when creating the earth is isn't perfect in any way isn't all knowing in any way >> but also lies.

[00:57:25]>> Oh yes, >> because as we hinted at the snake tells the truth.

[00:57:31]>> They didn't die.

[00:57:31]>> They surely die. No, but they didn't die. They will gain the knowledge of good and evil.

[00:57:37]>> And they will live like 900 years or something, right?

[00:57:40]>> Yeah. It takes a It takes time for mortality to set in.

[00:57:45]>> Oh, yes. Yes. Yes.

[00:57:46]>> Completely.

[00:57:48]And uh Yeah. So So there you have it.

[00:57:52]Uh and that sort of uh yeah it is a interesting journey that that this in Christian mythology when we're not talking about the biblical mythology but in Christian mythology when these stories are interpreted and reinterpreted and when it becomes shackled to this idea that everything has to make sense. The whole book has to make sense as one work even though it's written over a thousand years >> and it contains >> stories from many cultures and from many different time periods it all has to make sense. So then you start binding it together and figure out oh this God can't lie, God can't make mistakes.

[00:58:54]Uh and the serpent has to be the devil himself even though the devil wasn't.

[00:59:00]No, no, no. And this is doing the same as Marvel is doing or other things like now. It's like we have all the stories and now we need to figure out how they're going to fit together because we have all these like gaping holes in the story and like we need to like put it together and then you look at the Bible or any other and someone at some point said we need to do the same which is totally wrong because this is not the point of those stories. those stories uh were were written down after they were written down because of course at the beginning it was just an oral culture so spoken just they were just talking about it reciting or singing right um uh now we have all these stories and they were from a certain point of view in a certain time the first story is when when the god uh when let's talk about the ogi and uh mean garden of Eden and the bible when god has actually a physic was a physical being who has a house and after the the destruction of the temple the the house was gone. So there was a change of of setting when everything is and why we should at the end of the story let's say when the Bible was finished uh telling why it was it was because it was needed to tell that story. Now God doesn't need a temple. Now we can we have Christianity let's say or or or Islam and we can spread around the world. Right.

[01:00:25]>> Yeah. why we need to tell the story and fit everything to the story we're telling now when when when the story was written down or or told it has a total different goal. Right.

[01:00:39]>> Absolutely.

[01:00:41]But but again I I think that the Marvel analogy is very good.

[01:00:47]But I think this sort of works uh for all mythology and for for our understanding of mythology as a whole because we are and we've [clears throat] done this I've done this mistake already in this episode to think how can we fit the concept of a mythological snake into a hole.

[01:01:18]A and this is kind of like let's say archaeologists dig up uh Marvel comics and movies and MCU >> in a thousand years times and they have 50 scattered issues of Marvel comics.

[01:01:38]They have a few anthology books. Some are from Ultimate Spider-Man. Some are from the OG Spider-Man. Some are from MCU and they're trying to fit this all together into a hole. But but Steve Ditco's Spider-Man wasn't the same as Todd McFarland's Spider-Man. No. Wasn't the same as Toby Maguire's Spider-Man or or or uh Watch his face Spider-Man.

[01:02:08]>> Um so so there We have all these different stories and we're so obsessed with figuring out how can we put them into a hole? How can we fit them into a perfect >> a box or something?

[01:02:36]>> Yeah. How can we box them in? This is probably one of, in my opinion, one of the most damaging things from world religions and from written text as a whole. is this idea that we have to put we what is written down has to be the truth and we have to make everything fit into that one >> pology right here.

[01:03:09]>> Yeah. And what is funny when I started when when when my first semester when I was studying um uh cultural sciences uh one of the first lessons we had was to read uh a book uh or a s short story about the Emperor Kennedy where you said that there were there were some archaeologists who are digging up Marvel comics and [ __ ] like that. I just totally it hit me. We had exactly this kind of story when when there are herologists in the future digging up stuff from our time and putting a story together for bits and pieces they don't totally understand but they need to put it in in a coherent story. That's exactly the same for us. By the way, that story was to always be careful when we try to build a story about knowledge we have because we might be totally wrong or even building a story is totally not necessary. like a coherent story for the whole uh cultural text because there might be 3,000 cultural texts where don't don't fit together, don't work together very well because they don't the only binding thing is the culture that produced them, right? But because there were different people in different times, they may not tell the same story or be a continuation of something started thousand years ago, let's say.

[01:04:35]>> Right.

[01:04:35]>> Absolutely. Absolutely. A and that that that sort of uh yeah, this undermines my whole idea of the dragon snake spectrum. Uh because yes I do I believe absolutely that that that stories are this is not my scientific belief. This is my belief as a storyteller that the technology of storytelling makes stories last a lot longer than what we can prove that that we have in uh our modern stories. Remnants of stories that are told were told as far back as humans or even before that that as long as we have had language uh that you we can tell stories for not just for hundreds of years but for thousands of years. But these stories also change and are fluid and adapt a and can undergo these radical shifts.

[01:05:59]>> Yeah. Memes, man. Memes.

[01:06:01]>> Yeah. Memes. Um and I think >> you done >> almost.

[01:06:10]>> All right. Because we are around an hour.

[01:06:13]>> We are around an hour. I think I think we can safely say that the around an hour will be the time period for these >> Yeah.

[01:06:21]>> things because I I >> And what you said is draw from mythology.

[01:06:27]>> Uh drawing from myth. Yeah.

[01:06:30]>> Okay.

[01:06:30]>> I think we're going to call this drawing from myth.

[01:06:34]>> I think we have drawn enough from myth today so we can start wrapping up. as I start wrapping up this image.

[01:06:47]Okay. Um if you are watching this and you're liking what you're seeing, please do comment. Also t tips give us tips about who should we talk to, what should we talk about. Mhm.

[01:07:10]>> You uh we need your help to to make this uh as good as it can be.

[01:07:20]And uh yeah, what do you have to say?

[01:07:25]>> I would like to have it more episodes and uh interesting topics we can talk about and there is so much like just researching about servants. It was I started on the in November. So it's a huge topic. We could talk forever and yeah. So if we have more topics and you are interested in it, just yeah, as Kim said, just uh comment and we can check it out and see what we're going to like or Kim is going to like and then we decide what to do.

[01:07:56]>> Yeah. And this is very much a work in progress. We're we're creating the road as we're walking it. Mhm.

[01:08:06]>> Which is that's the fun stuff I think.

[01:08:11]So, so we're very happy if you are we were not walking the road.

[01:08:19]>> We're slithering the road uh like a serpent.

[01:08:24]>> Let's go to the back to the Harry Potter with the Slytherin, right?

[01:08:27]>> No, [laughter] no, let's not. Let's not. We are are crawling the road uh and figuring out >> as we go >> as we go. And in our pilot episode, you asked me if I was going to end my drawing with the circle that I often use. And that circle is >> an ends.

[01:09:02]Um, and I said, "No, because I put that um symbol when I'm I'm a I would call myself an atheist and a Satanist and spiritual atonist or god-fearing Satanist is what I like."

[01:09:26]>> And that's a mouthful.

[01:09:27]>> That's a mouthful. Yes. And I uh put that ensil symbol in when I think that I might have landed on something spiritual in some sense, something that's worth thinking more about in some sense.

[01:09:52]And uh with the last episode I I think that that you know we could have delved into the spiritual sides of rats but I don't think we did uh too much with this episode. I I think we more we did delve into >> a bit more close >> more spiritual things and there are things I need to check with the gods that don't exist with the fates with the cosmos with chance and check if it's allowed or if I have to tear it up and the rules when I do the endo is if the endo doesn't come out well I have to tear up the artwork. If it comes out well, then I get to keep it.

[01:10:46]>> Then it is allowed to exist. So should I end this with an end?

[01:10:52]>> Please do.

[01:10:55]I'll first sign it because there is a finished work and then we are going to see if the god that doesn't exist accepts our >> let's see it. I gonna I going to see here on the screen because I >> and this is always as nerve-wracking.

[01:11:22]Yeah, I remember every single time you do it.

[01:11:36]>> That's a snake biting its own tail.

[01:11:38]That's the urbus.

[01:11:39]>> Oh, yeah.

[01:11:40]>> And I think with that, that was a success. So, I think uh we're done. And if you liked this then yeah this will be uploaded to my web store today. It will be uploaded for free use because art is speech and speech must be free. So you can do whatever you want with the scanned version of this.

[01:12:02]I will probably looking at you know I the gods allow a few more details.

[01:12:12]I I forgot where I was. I can't do just shadow on one side of the tree. I have to space it out. And that's okay. The gods allowed it.

[01:12:24]And with that, I think we are done.

[01:12:31]Thank you for watching. And uh yeah, we'll be back with more drawing from myth with episode two of drawing from myth >> or three depends how we look how we count it. We will get these numbers in uh in the right order eventually. We will get everything in the right order.

[01:12:49]So, please comment what would you like to see us do more of? What would you like to see us improve? What do you think was great? And uh who do you think we would win in No.

[01:13:05]The end.