Is PDA A Sign Of Intimacy Or Is It Performative? | The Hook Up Podcast

Added: 2026-06-02

[00:00:00]Middle of the day, bright sun, humping.

[00:00:03]Yeah. Tongue down throat going at it.

[00:00:05]>> In the library in a public space is just to me it's a little embarrassing.

[00:00:10]>> I am definitely not a very physical touchy person. So if someone's like fasttracking that level of physical intimacy with me, like I'm probably going to freak out and get the ick. My ex-husband was always massively performative when it came to PDA. My ex used to be all over me when it was her and I or when we were out with my friends. And then it got to the point where we actually had a conversation about it and I asked her to dial it back a bit.

[00:00:45]>> Hi, I'm D. Selman and I noticed something recently. What did you notice?

[00:00:51]Well, I was in Sydney on my book tour and I walked past a couple in a park on a bench like making out but like fully going at it >> like tongue and throat >> everything like humping like full on and I was just like oh oh in the middle of the day I was like running from one interview to another and I was so startled by it like I was so shocked that I it made me realize like we actually like I don't see PDA anymore like we don't make out in public that the fact that it's so it It was so shocking because it was something that I hadn't seen in so long.

[00:01:24]>> Yeah.

[00:01:24]>> Like I tried to remember the last time I saw that and I couldn't.

[00:01:27]>> Yeah, I completely agree.

[00:01:28]>> And I couldn't I was like, "Wow, it's a lost art.

[00:01:30]>> We've lost PDA.

[00:01:31]>> We've lost PDA." I do think that we have maybe lost.

[00:01:34]>> When was the last time you saw PDA?

[00:01:36]>> Honestly, last incident of witnessing PDA maybe like months ago.

[00:01:43]>> Like it's really rare I think. I think personally but that being said hi I'm P Rasmusen and I'm trying to bring back PDA baby >> you would >> I am trying to bring it back >> you would >> I may have been that person surprised it wasn't you >> I wasn't in Sydney at the time but um you know I am trying to bring it back I think it's nice to see people do that and maybe people go they see like someone tonging somebody or canoodling or groping but I'm like hello entertaining fun And love is love, you know. You're like, I'm glad you're getting some.

[00:02:18]>> Exactly.

[00:02:18]>> Well, this was why Pip and I wanted to do a whole episode on PDA because we realized it's a lost art. But we also wanted to figure out how you felt about it. Like I think you either love it or you hate it. Like people are either all for it, but when people hate it, like they [ __ ] hate it. Do you know what I mean?

[00:02:35]>> People get the ick. And we wanted Pip and I wanted to explore like if you're a couple or people group of people doing some PDA, is that performative? Like is that for show? Like what are you trying to prove? Or is it a sign of a healthy and secure relationship? Like you're just like, I don't care who sees this.

[00:02:52]I'm so happy and in love.

[00:02:54]>> Yeah. We also wanted to find out as well if it was something for queer people where they felt like they couldn't actually PDA even if they wanted to, whether it was like a safety issue or on the flip side if they were like I actually find it's really important to show people and to be like normalize this like normalize these kind of relationships. We also wanted to find out your opinion cuz obviously we're saying we think it's lost but what do you think? So we put it to you and we're going to find out if you think PDA is lost and if you think we should find it again.

[00:03:25]Okay, let's talk about witnessing PDA before we get into how you feel about giving or receiving PDA in your own relationships. But, you know, as you were witnessing the park bench couple, >> middle of the day, bright sun >> going humping, tongue down throat, going at it.

[00:03:42]>> Exactly. So, we wanted to know how you felt about seeing this in public. On our Instagram, Triple J the Hookup is where we asked, "How do you feel about seeing couples do PDA in public?" 21% of you said it was cringe. 30% of you said it's cute. Okay.

[00:03:55]>> And 49% said it was neutral. You said that it was all or nothing with people.

[00:03:59]>> Yeah. Wow. Apparently, you're wrong.

[00:04:01]>> Okay. 50% nearly 50% of people just like, I don't really care. I don't care.

[00:04:05]>> I thought it was one of those things that people were like >> polarized.

[00:04:07]>> Polarized.

[00:04:08]>> Yeah.

[00:04:09]>> Maybe. Yeah. I'm like, how do you see something like what I witnessed and not feel the type of way?

[00:04:14]>> That's true.

[00:04:15]>> How do you walk past that go and just go, "Yeah, whatever."

[00:04:17]>> Yeah. Because there's kind of like a yard stick measure of like how vulgar the either go for you or you go like, "Oh, [ __ ] get a room." Do you know what I mean?

[00:04:26]>> Well, I think there's different levels.

[00:04:27]So, like if we're talking about PDA, maybe we should quickly define it.

[00:04:30]There's like base level handholding, >> public displays of affection. I guess it could mean anything.

[00:04:35]>> Like little pecks on the cheek. It could mean like a really like tender hug or like a caress. But then there's like people tonging each other. Then there's people like grabbing ass.

[00:04:45]>> There's some You're going to hear them.

[00:04:46]Stay tuned. You're going to hear some really hectic stories of PDA. I guess when I think of it, I think about seeing like people full making out or being really hot and heavy. Well, okay. When we're thinking about this spectrum, though, people said to us in the DMs that they were like, "If you're going over the top, I don't want a bar of it.

[00:05:03]Like, I'm not interested." Julia says, "Hugging, holding hands, kissing is okay, but no tongue, please. No one needs to see that." Bren agrees. Please do not stick your tongue down each other's throats. And Hannah saying, "Be affectionate, but don't be deborturous."

[00:05:18]I personally disagree with you, Hannah.

[00:05:20]I love the deborty.

[00:05:21]>> So, you want to see >> it tongues touching, sucking, grabbing in the middle of the day?

[00:05:27]>> Dinner in a show, babe. Like, I'm literally like, "This is just what society is." And we are so taboo about sex, you know? Seeing like a little thing like that in the middle of your day, it's almost kind of funny cuz then you remember it and then you're like, "Oh, I saw this thing. Like, I saw this couple on the train like straddling each other." Like that's funny. And I'm like, it's not really harming anyone. Like maybe people are like, "Oh my gosh."

[00:05:48]Like, >> you know, it's a bit prudish or whatever, but I'm like I mean, as long as they're not being like publicly indecent, I don't think I want to see like genitals.

[00:05:55]>> I just am like I think I am absolutely not a prude at all. But I do think I'm way less there than you are. Like I I think I'm like I don't know.

[00:06:06]>> That's cuz you don't spend as much time out in public like compared to me.

[00:06:09]>> Yeah. You're like always on public transport. I am walking around. I am in the metropolitan. Like I'm a city girl.

[00:06:16]I'm doing things.

[00:06:17]>> I think it's just I'm such a people pleaser that I just get a bit like I care about how everyone's feeling >> and so I'm reading the room and so if people aren't reading the room, I get a bit like >> well read the room, please. Like we're all reading the room. Well, there's so many people who DM'd us who said these people were not reading the room because we asked, we had this amazing DM from Jess who said, "The other day I was walking through the mall and I saw a guy fully motorboating his girlfriend at the mall." And so we put it up on our stories and we were like, "Who else has seen some pretty crazy PD? What's the absolute most extreme PDA you've seen?"

[00:06:54]Um, someone here said, "Watched a couple individually suck each other's tongue right in front of me at the footy." See, I would hate that. How do you not hate that?

[00:07:03]>> I mean, >> like I'm just like, come on, guys.

[00:07:05]>> Yeah, it probably would be a bit like I'm trying to watch the game.

[00:07:09]>> Yeah. I mean, if it goes on for more than 5 minutes, I'm filming you. Sorry.

[00:07:13]And I'm really against filming people in public, but that does feel like a disturbance of the the general vibe of the footy. You're not there to suck face.

[00:07:20]>> Um, another person here saying, "Saw a guy getting a handy in the casino restaurant." That is depressing as [ __ ] I wouldn't want to see that. That's That's indecent. Okay, that's maybe not even PDA. That's like >> that's illegal.

[00:07:32]>> That's illegal.

[00:07:34]>> Um, this person here is saying at the drive-in movies after the movie, they were going at it while we all drove past them to leave.

[00:07:43]>> I mean, there's something that I feel is a bit more acceptable if you're at a drive-in movie.

[00:07:50]>> You've got the mattress on the back of the ude, you've got the blanket. Like, I don't know. You've set the scene.

[00:07:57]Someone else sent us a DM saying, "I saw someone grinding and making out in the gym pool. Then he suspiciously changed into new swimmers." Now that's that's disgusting.

[00:08:09]>> Health hazard.

[00:08:10]>> Why are you changing your swimmers?

[00:08:11]>> No, I don't want to think about it.

[00:08:13]>> We got this one pit though, which is I think this is the worst one. I don't know why, but they said they were at a concert and they saw a girl put her hands down her boyfriend's back of his pants. Not off to the side, grabbing his ass, which would have been fine. She was digging inside his crack.

[00:08:34]What? Like, have fun, but hit the bathroom before the bar and the food stand, please. Oh my good god. I just Jesus Christ. That's PDA I've heard. in a public place and you're like digging in someone's [ __ ] >> when we're all we've all got to go share the bar.

[00:08:54]>> That is foul.

[00:08:55]>> Grab some snacks. Like that's the worst I've genuinely would rather see someone having sex and see that.

[00:09:01]>> Oh no, 100%. That's actually really gross. I would rather see Yeah. public nudity or something else than that.

[00:09:07]That's really foul. Anyway, these were some of the worst ones and some of them I don't even think they were PDA. That was actually going above and beyond. But let's bring it back. So some people who messaged us and they sent voice memos, right? So Lucas messaged us and he was like, "I'm not really a fan of PDA. I do feel like it crosses a line at some points." And he told us this story about one of his best mates.

[00:09:26]>> And maybe it's just the way I was raised. And we were a little conservative growing up. So maybe that's it. But just we've got this mate and we study together uni and his girlfriend as well. and I've known him forever, but he insists on doing this thing where he'll like go up to her and sort of like put his hand underneath her chin, raise like raise her head up and then pass just have a little bit too long in front of me. We're in the library in a public space. It's just to me it's a little embarrassing. It's not my favorite thing to be around. Like do it with yourselves and if they want to do it by themselves in public that's all good. Just can I not be there?

[00:10:06]>> I have a few things to say here first.

[00:10:08]Okay, first thing, doing it in front of your friends like that to me feels so cringe and icky and embarrassing. Like again, I'm just always feeling the room and I just can't imagine in front of like my friends just grabbing my partner in front of their faces and just like purposely holding their face and making out. Second thing is that to me feels so performative. I know we're going to get into the performative stuff, >> but I just am like that feels really showy. It's like look at I don't know.

[00:10:35]>> I think those go hand in hand in terms of the performative and the friendship thing.

[00:10:39]>> I just don't like making people feel uncomfortable.

[00:10:42]>> So then I'm like are you just more free than me or are you generally just not caring about how other people in the room feel?

[00:10:49]>> Do you think it's selfish? Hot take. Is PDA selfish >> in that context? I kind of do think it is. Especially in the context of a library. Okay.

[00:10:57]>> Like I just think time and place.

[00:11:00]Don't grab and make out with your partner right in front of your friend's face for ages. Like I don't know that just to me feels icky.

[00:11:07]>> Speaking of library as well, that was kind of giving book talk. The way he described it and that's what I think would made it a little bit performative which was the grabbing under the chin, tilting up the chin. I'm like I've read that sentence a million times in books and in that context I'm like oh beautiful but like with a real life person I'm like a bit cringe.

[00:11:24]>> Yeah, >> that's a bit cringe to me. Anyway, >> I don't know. I do want to hear though how people feel about PDA in their own >> yes >> relationships or the people that they're dating or hooking up with or seeing or whatever. Um Talia says, "I love in brackets reasonable PDA when I'm in a relationship, but it's a strong no when I'm dating." Yeah. See, I'm curious to know how you feel about where you draw the line when you're dating. And I'm talking like first date, second, third, very casually seeing somebody like wouldn't introduce you to your friends kind of like vibe. Maybe it's something that would be confusing if someone was PDAing with me really early on and I would feel maybe like they were lovebombing me slightly because I personally love physical touch and physical affection.

[00:12:10]>> Yeah.

[00:12:10]>> And I think if someone was to be very quick into like kissing and making out with me in front of people, I'd be like, "Ooh, hold on. I totally know what you mean. I think for me it would be the context, right? Like I've definitely PDA if I'm hooking up with someone on a night out.

[00:12:23]>> Oh yes.

[00:12:23]>> Like that's if it's like a one night stand or it's like someone you're casually seeing then I would probably definitely PDA and I'd just be like at a gig or like wherever I was.

[00:12:34]>> But yeah, if I was like intentionally dating someone like we're going for a dinner and then we're like date two and you're like hold like I don't know. I do think for me if it's like long-term partner dating for that I like for it to build and I do think there's a level of like you're fast tracking intimacy >> with physical touch like I am definitely not a very physical touchy person. So, if someone's like fast tracking that level of physical intimacy with me, like I'm probably going to freak out and get the ick, especially if it's like in public. And I wonder if there's like a level of like what does that mean to that person, right? Like if I This is a pessimism in me. I go, if a guy's like really trying to like hold my hand or like make out with me in public after a couple of dates, like is that a bit performative in the sense that you want to show that you're with me?

[00:13:23]>> Like a marking ter. Is it like an ownership thing? I don't know. I would be a bit wary of that.

[00:13:30]>> Yeah.

[00:13:30]>> But then some people like free love and they would love it and be like, I love that this person's like >> so like open with their affection.

[00:13:38]>> Well, we know that like on social media and doing previous episodes. A lot of people say to us that they want someone to like shout from the rooftops and be really open about that and like show through your actions that you like or love me. So, I get that. Oh, it's tricky, isn't it? But it's all contextual, isn't it? Cuz now I'm like, well, yeah, you're right. If it's a if it's a hookup or a casual date and it's really early on, like, yeah, I'm going to make out with you in the booth as well.

[00:14:02]>> It's almost more exciting if it's public.

[00:14:05]>> Yeah.

[00:14:05]>> If you're like going home together and you're like at a I don't know, at a club and you're like hooking up in front of everyone and it's getting handsy or you're like, >> do you know what I mean? And you're like, let's get out of here. Like that's kind of that's hot.

[00:14:18]>> But yeah, you're right. There's there's that weird middle ground where it's like if you they're dating for the intention of a relationship and you're like well you don't get to like skip to the you know I don't know you don't get to skip the queue and like jump ahead like that to that kind of intimacy >> right >> well yeah let's chat about relationships say you're in a relationship with someone we wanted to know on our Instagram the hookup how do you feel about doing PDA in your relationship and 42% of you said you like it >> only 12% of you said that you don't thought it would be higher to be honest.

[00:14:49]>> And 46% of you said you like to do it sometimes. Like it's a sometimes thing.

[00:14:53]>> Okay.

[00:14:54]>> I think I'm in that camp.

[00:14:55]>> Yeah, I'm definitely in the 42%. I'm like the yes camp for sure. And a lot of people agreed. Ally saying if a relationship doesn't have PDA, then I don't want it. Sarah Kate saying, "I love PDA. My boyfriend is such a sweetheart. He's always hugging and kissing me. It makes me feel so loved."

[00:15:11]Jess sent us a voice memo as well talking about how she loves to feel connected to her partner. My husband and I need to always be connected. So, we hold hands while we eat dinner. We hold hands while we fall asleep. If we're in a group of people having a conversation, sometimes I'll send him a text to tell him I love him if it's not appropriate to say it out loud. And anytime we get a chance to have a little kiss or a cuddle or just, you know, check in, we will do that regardless of who's looking. Um, we're never over the top. We're never going to make anyone comfortable, but it's something that we have to do because I need to be connected to him like that.

[00:15:52]>> Can I just say I feel like someone's going to be listening to this and thinking that is my worst nightmare.

[00:15:56]Like the 12% people being like I do not PDA. Jess is like almost maybe the most extreme PDA that I have ever heard. Like texting somebody to say I love you while you're in a group because you didn't want to say it out loud.

[00:16:08]>> I think the thing that threw me was the eating dinner or the holding hands.

[00:16:11]Yeah, because I'm like, how are you?

[00:16:14]>> So, what am I meant to do? Like, >> are we not knifing and forking?

[00:16:16]>> Are we eating soup only?

[00:16:18]>> Like, I'm I'm like, is that a It's a little bit codepend. I'm like, babe, >> maybe it's a little codependent.

[00:16:23]>> How are we eating our dinner?

[00:16:24]>> Yeah, I do.

[00:16:26]>> I love that they're so in love though in that they need to feel connected, >> but I'm just like 24/7 handholding >> and the fact that you're not very PDA and we don't really We don't even really hug that much. I'm like, I don't want to let go. I don't want to let go. Should we do the reserves?

[00:16:39]>> But but I'm like that is a lot that's a lot. I love I love that for >> Jess. I think it's it sounds really um equal and lovely, which is nice. And we will get to that actually if you're like uh my partner hates it and I love it.

[00:16:52]We'll talk about that very soon. But yeah, we had a couple other DMs. Jules saying, "I'm not a fan of doing it out of awkwardness and for privacy reasons rather than shame reasons." And she said she's in a women loving women relationships. And Hayden also said, "As a neurode divergent, it makes me feel like I'm struggling." I think this is a really great point as well. I think, you know, a lot of people do struggle with physical affection, eye contact, um, touching, texture, sense, smell if you are neurody divergent. So, I can kind of imagine that would be something that maybe people struggle with.

[00:17:23]>> 100%. Well, let's chat about that mismatch because this was huge in our DMs. We asked you, "Have you ever had a mismatch in PDA with a partner?" 73% of you said yes. That's a big number.

[00:17:35]>> That's massive.

[00:17:36]>> So you and your partner aren't meeting eye eye to eye when it comes with like how much you are both doing public displays of affection.

[00:17:42]>> Have you ever had that?

[00:17:44]>> I have my first boyfriend was like so affectionate in private.

[00:17:52]>> Oh, okay.

[00:17:52]>> And like really really like cutesy and like you know how you get when you are like in love and it's like real baby blah blah blah like cutie huggy whatever. But then in public he was like so chill and cool and like barely showed affection.

[00:18:06]>> That would piss me off so bad.

[00:18:07]>> And so yeah, it was a bit like whiplash cuz it was like why I didn't understand like why you wouldn't just be like if someone consistently isn't that physical like very good at physical touch then sure. But to be like so physical touchy and then as soon as you're in public >> to then like not really do that I find that hard because I'm like what is it about the public display? Like, do you want to not seem like you're in a relationship? Like, do you want to come across as single?

[00:18:35]>> Like, what's the sign signals that you're trying to send out?

[00:18:37]>> What's the what's the reason why people aren't doing PDA? Yeah. And is there like some like weird internalized shame thing as well as to why you don't want to be seen as like especially for men dating women potentially, maybe like that is seen as like >> submissive or feminine to be like, you know, touchy and feely with their partner. But then again, on the opposite end, then there are some guys who you see who like aggressively like grope their girls backside and you're kind of like, "Oh, you're marking like your territory." And you're basically being like, "Yeah, that's my girl." Like, >> so it's almost like an alpha thing in that sense as well. Or there's so much to pull out of this actually.

[00:19:11]>> 100%. Well, let's hear from you and get some voice memos. So Jeff sent us this voice memo about PDA. My ex used to be all over me when it was her and I or when we were out with my friends, kissing, touching my hair, touching my chest, just playing with me, teasing me, all sorts of stuff like that. And then it got to the point where like we actually had a conversation about it and I asked her to dial it back a bit. And then when we would go out with her friends or her family, it was like I didn't even exist and she would ignore me. Uh she would sit beside me for a bit or sit away from me, not look at me, uh not talk to me. It was really strange and it used to drive me nuts. Like there has to be some sort of happy medium, I think.

[00:19:59]>> What do you think of that? You just look like you're about to say something.

[00:20:01]>> Well, I'm like, is that because he told her to cut to pull >> That's what I read back.

[00:20:06]>> I felt like it sounded like a maybe a slight retaliation of him being like, "Hey, can you dial it down?" And then she goes, "Fine, you don't get anything."

[00:20:13]>> Yeah. Maybe she felt a bit >> timing coincided with her just not doing it in front of anyone anymore.

[00:20:18]>> Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Um, we also had this one from Jess who you heard from before who holds hands during dinner and falls asleep holding hands and texts saying I love you to her partner. So obviously Jess big fan of PDA, but she had an instance where her PDA with her partner actually affected somebody else.

[00:20:37]One day at my nephew's birthday party, we snuck away just for a hug and a little kiss and just to check in.

[00:20:44]Nothing too, you know, over the top. And one of the moms walked past and joked and laughed and said, "Get a room, you too." And then later told me that she doesn't have that kind of relationship with her partner. They don't have that kind of affection. But that's what she wants. She wants a partner that she can be affectionate like that with. So, she left him and they broke up.

[00:21:09]>> That's crazy, isn't it? Like, it can definitely be a dealbreaker for people.

[00:21:12]Well, it makes you feel so [ __ ] when you see a couple expressing their love so freely and they're so happy and they like don't they're so in love, they don't care who sees. Like, that's really hard to see and can trigger like so much anxiety around your relationship if you don't have that. And I actually had a friend say this to me once, like when we were all hanging out and like my partner and I were like just like hugging and kissing and like just like like Jess said, like nothing over the top, but she was like, "Oh, my partner would never do that to me." And it made her feel really insecure about her relationship and made her kind of second guess everything.

[00:21:46]>> And it's such a hard one cuz I'm like, you deserve what you want, right? Like you deserve to have the relationship you want to have.

[00:21:53]>> Yeah. And then I keep going back to what Jeff said where it's like, oh well, is there a way to compromise? Like I don't know like cuz you're right like if you feel like you need to receive love in that way then >> I don't know if you can change that.

[00:22:06]>> Is it something that Yeah. Like can can someone become better at PDA? Well, we actually got a voice memo from Gia who kind of did um learn to embrace it.

[00:22:16]>> I always hated the idea of PDA because it made me anxious and worried that I'll be perceived as cringy or gross. And so for the first two years of me and my partner's relationship, I was anxious about kissing or even hugging in public.

[00:22:28]It took me so long to warm up to any kind of PDA, but luckily my partner was super understanding about it and was happy with me taking my time. I still get that anxiety feeling now, but it's not as bad. But I still don't like being overly affectionate in public.

[00:22:42]>> This is so interesting and I have so many questions which I think will get answered by an expert. So like where does that insecurity and shame come from? Like obviously G being like I felt like I would be perceived as cringe and cute uh not cute or anything. So I'm like where does that come from? Is it like a familial thing? Like did your family not hug and kiss and touch when you were growing up? Like is it an attachment style? Like if you're avoidant or is it because you are so stressed about how you're being perceived like how I am like I'm just like don't want to make anyone uncomfortable. Like is it does it come from a people pleasing place? And like should you change? Like if you are who you are, should you not just meet someone who's similar to you and kind of like I've got friends where like they're both just not affectionate, physical, touchy, >> they've been together for years and they love each other so much and they're like each other's person, but they just I've never seen them kiss ever.

[00:23:35]>> Yeah. And like how do you identify whether your insecurity around showing affection or giving or receiving it is like a shame thing or is like just it's just you you're hardwired that way? Like it's your personality. You're just like, I just don't hug people or I just don't do that and it's not how I show love.

[00:23:51]Interesting. Yeah. No, let's definitely get an expert. I think we have so much to discuss with them. Okay. So, we've said a few times in this episode already talking about the potentially performative aspect of PDA. And that's something that we wanted to explore a little bit and unpack cuz we were like, is it just something that you do to put on a show for other people and it's not really genuine or authentic? Or is it just a sign of you having a really healthy, secure relationship where you don't give a [ __ ] about what other people think and you feel very comfortable to share your love in a public way?

[00:24:23]>> Yeah. Well, we had a few people weigh in. Um Sam said, "When a couple is PDA, every time you see them, it's cringe and it actually is just attention seeking."

[00:24:31]And we got this voice me from Kelly. My ex-husband um was always massively performative when it came to PDA while we were out wherever. And then when we got home, he always just kind of left me feeling like >> no it doesn't matter cuz nobody's there to display to.

[00:24:54]See, this is like the opposite of what you had where you were like at home very touchy feely baby love it outside >> crickets cold.

[00:25:05]>> Something about that does feel a bit off.

[00:25:06]>> I feel like that is a is a very perfect example of maybe the only way that PDA could be really defined as performative >> is when it's not consistent. You're performing a version of your relationship on the outside that isn't reflected of the true nature of your relationship on the inside.

[00:25:28]>> Yeah, I see that. I feel like there's probably some deep quote about like the difference between like performing for yourself or performing for other people as well and being so obsessed with it how you're being perceived and maybe then also like lying to yourself and performing to yourself and being like, "Yeah, no, I like love this person." Or like, "No, it's like whatever." Well, it's like that research that came out that said that people who like really post about their relationship and really post their partner on social media >> aren't as happy in their relationship.

[00:25:56]>> Yes.

[00:25:57]>> I wonder if it's linked to that kind of >> Oh, it must be for sure. I mean, we've talked about it and like we have episodes in the feed that you can go and check out if you're like interested in deep diving into how social media like shapes the way that we love and show love. We talk about it a lot on there.

[00:26:10]But yeah, and like I was saying at the top as well, like love bombers who this this is like that's performative to them. Like they're trying to whisk you away with this idea of them and like get you to fall in love with the idea of them, but it's not really them.

[00:26:23]>> Well, yeah. If it's like early days of the relationship.

[00:26:26]>> Yeah.

[00:26:26]>> It could just be performative in the fact that they're trying to like win you over, >> which is makes me think that if someone is PDAing with you very soon, too soon, and you feel like little red flags or alarm bells, like you should probably listen to that. whole other element as well is like PDA >> like slowly dying over time like that's like >> yeah right >> probably our experience as well is that like you might go quite heavy on the PDA at the start when you're in the honeymoon phase >> and then at some point maybe it kind of dwindles down >> I kind of worry >> the longer you are together >> I kind of worry about that for myself because I love physical affection and I I think like yeah you get swept up in that honeymoon kind of period and then I worry about like future me being like, "Oh, no. It's not happening as much."

[00:27:10]Even though I know what it's like to be in a long-term relationship and stuff, >> babe. Why don't you want to hump on the park bench anymore?

[00:27:16]>> We should ask the expert.

[00:27:17]>> Are you okay? You haven't straddled me in the train yet.

[00:27:20]>> We should ask We should ask the expert about that.

[00:27:22]>> Yeah. Like, is it a problem? And is it a normal natural thing of a relationship?

[00:27:25]And should you be worried if it's like, >> oh, actually, no. Speaking of social media and performative stuff, I don't know if you've seen these Tik Toks recently where people are kind of making fun of that stereotypical high school couple where they're in the hallway next to your lockers and they're just like holding each other and like maybe not even making out or kissing, but just like forehead to forehead like very intimate. And there's always like the emo couple and it was always like they were wearing like pajamas and like Cookie Monster fluffy pants and like >> it was just like a vibe. There's a certain vibe. I think you can picture it in your mind.

[00:28:00]>> Absolutely.

[00:28:01]>> And people in the comment section, it was really interesting. They were pointing out that like even though this PDA was kind of uncomfortable for everyone to witness, it was like the only place in their life that they felt safe to do it because their home lives were probably really [ __ ] and like they actually couldn't like feel safe to do that at home or they were just dealing with a lot of things at home. So when they were at school together, they were just just like, "Oh my god, so in love and I feel like I'm in a safe area with you to do it." And I was like, "Fuck, that really changed my mind about that."

[00:28:29]>> That's such a good point. Because you do have to ask the why. Like, if you're basically having sex in public.

[00:28:35]>> Yeah.

[00:28:35]>> Why? And a why might be because they don't have anywhere else to have sex. As in like you might be in your teens and you can't do it at home, you know, like it could Yeah. Or it could just be because you love each other so much and you just want to have each other right now in this moment. I can't not have you.

[00:28:50]>> There could be like the horniness. It could be like a safety aspect. a kink as we haven't even spoken about the fact that it could also be a kink that people get off doing. That's true. Voyerism.

[00:29:00]Yeah, voyerism. When I did my little kink uh what do you call them? Quizzes.

[00:29:03]Have you ever done that kink quiz before?

[00:29:05]>> Oh my god.

[00:29:05]>> So what got you into?

[00:29:06]>> Yeah. It has like a huge list of things.

[00:29:08]Voyerism was way up for me.

[00:29:10]>> Love that.

[00:29:11]>> Love that.

[00:29:11]>> I'm not surprised considering this episode. Speaking of the safety part though, right, this is something that like a lot of our queer fam like got in touch with us about and maybe that's something that you relate to and be like it wasn't safe for me to have like open affection and love and a relationship at home because maybe your family were judging you and and weren't accepting of your um sexuality. But outside of that, you could do it. On the flip side of that though, a lot of you got in touch and said actually in public is not safe either.

[00:29:39]>> Yeah. Like depending on where you live.

[00:29:41]Sarah said, "Depends where I am in the world and who I'm with. Safety is definitely a big factor." Uh, and Ben saying, "I've been pushed and verbally abused enough to learn PDA isn't an option as a gay man." Austin sent us this voice memo as well talking about it.

[00:29:55]>> Growing up in country Victoria, it was very rare to see samesex PDA, and when I did, I always noticed other people's surprise or disgust to it. It always made me feel a bit scared of being gay.

[00:30:10]I think those experiences shaped how I initially felt about PDA and created a minor phobia of kissing in public. It wasn't until I turned 21 and moved to Melbourne that I started to feel okay with PDA by going to more queer spaces, having more gay friends as well as going to gay clubs. Now I'm very happy with PDA with any partner. So, on the flip side of what Austin was saying there, a lot of you did DM us and said that, you know, visibility of queer love is really important to you and in fact, you almost make a point to do it in public where you feel safe to do so. And Karina got in touch with us and she was like, I've been my girlfriend for a couple of years. We hold hands, we kiss, we love PDA. And for her, it's really important to kind of like show that love out in public. I know as a kid, I'm sure I would have loved to have seen that queerness out and about that I just didn't really see or have anything to do with. And um I think it would have made me feel not so alone growing up. And I hope that kind of reflects and and shines on for other kids that might see us holding hands in public.

[00:31:16]>> I love that so much. I genuinely absolutely love seeing queer relationships in public. like the PDA, especially where I live in Melbourne, it's all every time I go to the shops, I just get so I'm like >> it's so it's just so nice >> and I just think like that love being publicly celebrated is so important.

[00:31:36]>> Okay, peep, it's time. The theory that I had at the start of this episode around PDA, not losing PDA, it's not a thing anymore. We asked you on Instagram, do you feel like you see less of PDA PDA out in the wild or more? 8% of you said it's so common. 56% of you said it's less common and 36 said it's about the same.

[00:31:56]>> I think we have lost PDA.

[00:31:57]>> We've lost PDA.

[00:31:58]>> We've lost it. The numbers don't lie.

[00:32:00]56%. And I agree. Where is it? Even me who is out in public all the time. You are famous.

[00:32:07]>> A girl about town. I don't see it anymore. Why do we think we have lost PDA? Why are people hooking up in public less?

[00:32:13]>> Well, I have a few theories actually. I have a few. Um, I think postco >> Yeah, >> postco world where we were told not to touch each other, not to breathe on each other for like three years.

[00:32:25]>> 100%. That's it.

[00:32:26]>> I think that kind of like snuffed it out a little bit.

[00:32:29]>> I would also say like we are dating less. We know now that young people are single more than ever. We're a bit divided. If if you're dating women dating men, like we're a bit divided.

[00:32:39]Post-romantic era. I feel like we're all a bit pessimistic about love. Loweffort dating. We hate the apps.

[00:32:47]playing a postme there's just like a general yeah like a fear and anger they were just like we're not into love as you said postromantic era though kind of all wraps into one I really want to shout out this DM that we got from Christy though because I completely agree with her she says I'd love to see more platonic friends display PDA >> yes >> I think we've been too tunnel visioned in this episode around PDA and people who are like hooking up with each other, dating, in relationships. But what's to say you can't just have a friendly kiss with a friend?

[00:33:25]>> Yeah, >> my friend sent me a photo the other day of her and I just holding hands and we didn't even realize we were holding hands. We were at a bar and we were just like holding hands the whole time and we like didn't even realize that we were holding hands and she took a photo of it and sent it to me and I was like, "That's so funny."

[00:33:37]>> I think like for women, we know that we're good with our PDA. I think we're pretty comfortable with it, but this is for the men. Why are we not kissing the homies? Why are we not hugging our bros?

[00:33:47]Let's call them and say good night.

[00:33:49]>> Kiss on the lips. Kiss on the lips. It's like literally not a big deal. Like I feel like every girl's experience is kissing their friends. Like at a party like getting drunk and hooking up with your friends. Like why aren't guys doing that? It's the sexualization of girls. I don't know. It's just so much more accepted for women to be showing affection to each other.

[00:34:07]>> Yeah. Because affection and care and love is seen as feminine. And the worst thing a guy can be apparently is feminine. Like god forbid you have some emotions >> and you like hug your friend and kiss them on the cheek.

[00:34:16]>> I know. And so I think we should bring PDA back and I think we should really bring it back for friendships as well. I think that was a really great point. But yeah, guys, kiss the homies.

[00:34:25]>> Hold your friend hold your mate's hand when you're at the footy.

[00:34:29]Snuggle. And you know what? While we're getting passionate about it, let's bring in Chelsea who is also very passionate about PDA just like us. And she was like, "Society needs it.

[00:34:39]>> People have such an aversion to it. I don't understand why. I don't understand why they get an ick. People are sabotaging.

[00:34:48]They don't understand what to do with it. They don't know how to be held.

[00:34:52]They're lonely as [ __ ] It's actually quite dangerous and scary when you really think it through. It needs to be seen so that it's normalized. It is normal to show affection. It's baseline.

[00:35:07]Where the hell did the baseline drop to zero? Like below zero. Like it's freezing cold temperatures out.

[00:35:16]>> If you go to Europe though, like Italians would never like I just think maybe this is such a Australian thing.

[00:35:22]Like why aren't we kissing our homies?

[00:35:23]Why aren't we hugging our friends? Why aren't we holding hands? Why aren't we embracing each other? Like the French kiss three times no matter who you are.

[00:35:31]>> Yeah, the Europeans have got it.

[00:35:33]Everywhere else figure it the [ __ ] out.

[00:35:35]And I do think Chelsea has such a good point of like we are living in a loneliness epidemic.

[00:35:40]>> We know that physical affection is so important, right? Like research shows you should be having like what 10 something like 10 hugs a day. Like hugging like hugging someone is so good for you for your mental health, your immune system.

[00:35:53]>> Like it's physical infection is so important.

[00:35:55]>> Yeah.

[00:35:56]>> I know that what Chelsea was saying when she was like it's actually really dangerous when you think about it. Like at first I was like okay that's a bit much. But then when you actually really think about it, you're like, "Oh, no, no, no, no." Like, >> not to get like tinfall hat conspiracy theory on it, but I was like, what if we end up in a society where it's like so shamed and so normalized to like not hug your friends and not be affectionate and not do that >> because I don't know, like the government is like trying to make us like not love each other because then we're more unhealthy cuz then we get no hugs and then they can just sell us more pills from pharmaceuticals. What about that? I'm certain that there's some author or movie.

[00:36:31]>> There's a definitely a movie about that.

[00:36:32]>> There's got to be a movie where they like >> the Black Mirror episode.

[00:36:35]>> Yeah. Like they've outlawed like affection and love and sex.

[00:36:38]>> No, I think we should all in protest bring PDA back within reason. Yes.

[00:36:43]>> I don't want to see you fingering your boyfriend's [ __ ] but I do want to see you kissing your friends. I do want to see more embracing of love >> and hugging and affection.

[00:36:54]>> Yeah.

[00:36:54]>> And I think that's where I've landed.

[00:36:56]>> I completely agree. We have lost PDA and we need to find it >> and that's it.

[00:37:01]>> And that's it.

[00:37:01]>> And we'll get in.

[00:37:03]>> Case closed. No, we do need to get the expert in. So many questions, Pit. And I think I really want to get into the I really want to get into the psychology of like if you hate PDA, like why? And can you change? And should you change?

[00:37:15]And yeah, is this a compromise you should make?

[00:37:16]>> And do you only hate PDA because you're not receiving any love yourself and it's um making you feel really um sad? Is it an insecurity in you? Like is that why why did my ex not like it? I kind of lowkey think that. Anyway, all right.

[00:37:30]>> Bye.

[00:37:30]>> Thank you. Bye.