Trump Blinked. Iran Won. Now What? (w/ Bill Kristol) | Bulwark Podcast

Ajouté : 2026-05-26

[00:00:00]How can one say we haven't lost quite a substantial amount of ground? I this is even not even talking about the broader effects around the world of our allies, lack of confidence in us and so forth. I mean it's a pretty disastrous thing honestly for the US.

[00:00:19]Hello and welcome to the Bullwork Podcast. I'm your host Tim Miller. Happy Memorial Day. We've got an abbreviated edition of our usual Monday podcast for, you know, those of you on long road trips with your family and you want to disassociate and just hang out with us instead or people that just want to um celebrate the holiday by paying attention to our insane news cycle. And uh since it's Monday, I'm here with Bill Crystal. How you doing, Bill?

[00:00:44]>> Fine. How are you, Tim?

[00:00:46]>> Um I am doing well. I'm doing well, all things considered. Um why don't we just uh get to it here? um a lot uh of updates on the state of play with regards to Iran uh since we were last together on Friday. Uh on Saturday uh Trump announced that we're basically on the cusp of a deal. A deal is essentially done 95% there. Um a lot of baloo, a lot of back back padding um among Trump himself. Uh but his allies, the pro-war allies, were pretty horrified by the rumors coming out about the deal. And so since then, things have um started to unwind a little bit. On Sunday, there was a massive spin effort to push that there would be uh no uh that there would be dust for dollars.

[00:01:33]There'd be no dollars without nuclear dust. Uh they were calling all their allies, making sure they knew that and that there'd be no toll on the strait.

[00:01:40]Uh and this morning, Monday, uh Iran is saying that they aren't charging a toll on the straight, but they are charging an environmental protection fee, which shows that the Iranians have learned a lot from uh you know, the liberal bureaucratic uh nomenclature of the West. Um so anyway, that's the state of play we're at now. Bill, what's your uh what's your sense of things?

[00:02:04]>> Trump desperately wants a deal. The Iranians know that and are twisting the knife a little, but also I think as you can see with the environmental fee thing, giving him enough cover so that Trump will end up with a deal that'll be murky. Uh more even than these deals often are and we'll see what really happens in terms of the nuclear material, in terms of opening the straight. Uh but it seems I think we're heading towards I mean we've been heading towards the deal for a while. I think some of us have thought it was going to happen for a long long time.

[00:02:33]Trump has basically announced he wants a deal. I mean, the degree to which he can bluster a little bit and put up bizarre photo, you know, memes of, I don't know, US bombing Iran or decimating places or Iran with an American flag, but at the end of the day, he wants out and I guess he'll get out. I think he will get out.

[00:02:50]>> It's interesting. I noticed you were posting about this um over the weekend.

[00:02:54]We had a initial quite angry reaction from the Mark Leven of the world, Lindsey Graham, FDD, you know, the the major um backers of the Trump war effort, uh who felt like this was basically a disaster and a betrayal.

[00:03:13]As the as the hours go on, you know, we're going through the same thing we that happened after every Trump disaster, January 6, etc., where they all start to, you know, look at the bright side, um, spin things for Trump.

[00:03:26]Like like what's your sense of that like kind um, you know, development? Is is he going to be able to, you know, get people to circle the wagons like usual or is there something different about the Iran situation? I mean, if you were a serious Iran hawk, let's say, who was going along with this not because you were loyal to Trump, but because you believed in certain things or and certain outcomes were important, uh, it's you're not getting any of those outcomes really. You're not getting regime change in Iran or liberation for the Iranian people. Obviously, Trump gave up on that very early. You're not getting a clear and unambiguous resolution of the nuclear issue, which Trump sort of defaulted to as his rationale for the war. And if you're more of a a traditional uh international order type of internationalist, you're not getting, I don't think, clarity on passage through the straight. You're not getting any kind of emphatic reiteration of of of of a right that these are international waters so forth. you're getting Iran probably sort of as you just said no no no toll but maybe some environmental fees and plus reminding everyone at least voce that you know they do have the ability to close the thing if they want to and it might be a good idea for some governments to negotiate with them to make sure their ships get through so you're not getting any of the things you really care about the nuclear issue this trade or the fate of the Iranian regime uh so if you're an honest you know hawk you need to be you need to say this deal is a defeat for the US now you might still say as belief that I think that better a defeat that doesn't risk more than an escalation that risks US lives and destruction of the infra energy infrastructure in the Gulf and a million other things. But um but you've got to say it's been the whole thing's been a defeat. And what strikes me is that as you say on what what would it have been maybe Saturday afternoon into Sunday morning the the there were enough some of the Trumpup supporting hawks were being honest hawks and I'm I predicted then and I think I still predict that by tomorrow the Trump supporting hawks will 80% be Trump supporters and they'll abandon their actual principled objections to not abandon but we'll certainly mute their their objections to this deal and also we'll put a you know a happy face on it don't you think? Yeah, I do. Well, >> do you >> I I just don't know that it's going to be quite as um voseiferous and quite as all in lock step as as it has been in the past for a couple reasons because you have a the opposite end of the hawks, the America first crowd, uh that I think will will probably want to crow that they were right about all of this.

[00:05:57]So, you'll have some wing within the Trump coalition uh that will will not be trying to, you know, spin this sandwich into a chocolate cake. You know, I think that they're going to just say what they have said throughout the whole time. And then, you know, I think there'll be a little bit of a mix among the Hawks. you. Now, this goes back to kind of the big theme of last week where Trump, you know, wins his revenge tour in these primaries with Cassidy Cornin and and Massie, but maybe loses the broader battle because he angers enough of the old school Republicans that they're not as excited to get in line.

[00:06:30]And you've seen this with Tillis over the weekend. He was on TV really bashing Trump. Um, so that kind of crowd, McConnell, Tillis, to the extent that I don't know how important they are really, but I do think there'll be some on the hawkwing also that criticizes them. So, you know, Lindsey Graham's going to come around and and say whatever Trump wants that he can still get invited into the golf cart. You know, I I wrote a book about that, so he'll come around. But I I do think that there are some fractures that was caused by this that were significant. And I think part of the continued version of that is is the straight and the cost of gas. you know, get prices are down today to about 90 bucks a barrel, which is on the high end of of acceptable, I guess.

[00:07:09]Um, but, uh, could still go back up again. Who knows if you know how long this goes, this little period of negotiation that we're still in getting that last so-called 5%. Um, the New York Times was a big piece this morning. Even if a deal is finalized, uh, the pre-war status quo and upward of 130 ships transited the straight each day would be weeks or even months away. like it just there's there's a lot of logistical issues um that still need to be ironed out. Uh and you know the you know the gas prices are still really high high. I think there's going to be persistent um negative impacts from this second second order effects that are going to you know create problems for a while. And I think that also you know makes it a little harder for him to just get everybody to get on board. you know, after January 6, nobody like anybody who's living their life in America wasn't really experiencing any negative impacts of January 6. It was this kind of attack on the democracy, this esoteric like people are still going to be feeling negative impacts here. So, I do think that's different.

[00:08:11]>> No, I think that's an important point.

[00:08:12]And I I also think this isn't going to be a real deal that's going to finalize things and then we can all go back to normal maybe with somewhat higher gas prices just because they still, you know, that's the after effect, as you say, of the straight haven't been closed all this time. It's going to be murky and they're going to be the Iranians are going to want to flex their muscles. So, six weeks from now after everything is settled down, the Iranians will deny passage to someone or, you know, find an excuse to do something to remind people that they have control. So, I agree, it doesn't go back to normal. The prices don't go down to where they were because of the risk factor uh in the strait. Uh the nuclear negotiations are totally, so far as one can tell, unsettled. So, there'll be a little there'll be more could be hiccups or more than hiccups there. Trump can't credibly, I don't think, threaten the use of force much.

[00:08:56]Maybe a bombing or something, but he's not going to move troops back there after after this thing gets sort of resolved here in the next few days, I think. So, that leverage that he has had goes away. Israel, I guess, retains that leverage. It doesn't go away, but is is lessened. Israel retains that leverage.

[00:09:13]I'm very struck by one thing. Trump's trying to, you know, sell the deal or or sweeten the deal by invoking out of nowhere, honestly, the Abraham Accords, which are like an entirely different thing, which and suddenly it's like, you know what, this is kind of part of he he knows the Abraham Accords are vaguely popular here to the degree people know what they are and regarded vaguely as successful, though one could have a separate discussion about have they actually lessened war or or tensions or instability in the Middle East. But anyway, they were okay. let's put it and and seemed like a success. So he's desperately trying I'm going to get those other nations to be part that aren't yet part of the Abraham Accords to be part of those accords. We'll see.

[00:09:52]I mean Saudi Arabia is not going to join the Abraham Accords without a resolution war resolution of the Palestinian issue.

[00:09:57]They've been totally clear about that.

[00:09:59]Egypt has its own peace treaty with Israel. They don't feel like they need to be told to be part of some accord with a bunch of Gulf states. I mean I I'm pretty dubious that >> Pakistan why I mean Pakistan which doesn't recognize Israel now. Will Pakistan as a favorite to Trump who's now their buddy and maybe is a favorite to China in turn which could get favors from Trump you know recognize Israel conceivably or or sort of join the quote join whatever that means even it's not like the Abraham accord like NATO what are you joining you know what I mean they could they say they're well disposed to them and want to have talks about it sure so there might be a little bit of coddling of Trump here but it is striking is that's like someone told him remember those Abraham Accords that's kind of one of your achievements and so suddenly it's and then at the end doesn't one of to a social post saying, you know what, it would be good if Iran joined the Abraham Accords. It's like you could only imagine the faces of of the Gulf States in Israel at that point.

[00:10:49]>> Well, I who know I mean on the Israel side of it and it seems like this is a this is attempted a pot sweetener for them for for Trump because uh you know did what didn't mention was over the weekend reports were that you know BB and folks in Israel were unhappy with the contours of the deal. Um, and so I, you know, I don't know, that's like a wild card in this situation. Obviously, Israel has more acute security issu concerns than than we do in this situation. And so maybe something might come up that would that would make Israel decide that they, you know, do want to attack Lebanon again or Iran again for that matter and like how that impacts the deal. I mean, that's certainly possible and a wild card. the the reporting on the Abraham call. I guess Trump was on a call with all of his new friends, Pakistan, Qatar, uh UAE, Saudi, and kind of made this pronouncement last night. And u one of the reports um from an Israeli news source said that the ultimatum was met with literal silence. The Arab leaders were so stunned by the audacity of the request that Trump had to break the silence himself. So, you know, we'll we'll see what happens with that. One thing I've been noticing as I get older is that I'll wake up after like a pretty casual night of drinking, maybe one or two glasses of wine, and feel like even if I do everything right, have enough to eat, drink water, get to bed, you know, I'm just still not 100 the next day. But our friends at Cheers Health are here to help with their restore after alcohol aid. Uh helps you sleep better after a couple of drinks and you get back to normal the next day. You take cheers after your last drink or before bed and then it works while you sleep. Their claim to fame is you feel 50% better or you get your money back so you wake up feeling like you drank roughly half the amount. Cheers Restore helps you metabolize alcohol more efficiently and supports overall liver health. Most people think dehydration is why you feel bad, but the real issue is what happens in your brain and liver while you sleep.

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[00:13:26]Please support our show and tell them we sent you. Just for kicks on the spin of all this. Uh, I saw this video going around this weekend. I want to share it because, you know, people that listen to this show, you know, we I mean, how often do we put on the hair shirt, Bill?

[00:13:42]And you and I are very very happy to discuss our our mistakes and bad predictions. Um you know the the pol policy of radical cander. Uh this gives you a little insight into what is happening inside the you know MAGA propaganda sphere. Um this is a guy with a relatively popular podcast named Dave Rubin. And someone want to put together a highlight reel of his predictions and comments on the war over the course of the last few months. And I think it tells us a little bit about the question of whether Trump will have people still spinning for him after this deal is done. Let's listen to Dave Rubin's take on the war.

[00:14:16]>> Everything that the media is now going to say about Iran's going to close this rate of hormuz and energy prices are going to go crazy and all these none of this is going to come to pass. Gas prices are coming down and will continue to come down. If the United States wants to keep the straight of Hormuz open, which it does, and Donald Trump said we'll escort ships through if we have to, it's going to stay open. This is the leader of the Iranian opposition. He has been in exile. His name is Reza Palavi.

[00:14:42]We have shown you videos of him before.

[00:14:43]He is the eldest son of the former sha of Iran and he likely is the next leader of Iran. For decades, they will study how this incredible war took place that we are hitting critical infrastructure.

[00:14:56]We are damaging the regime. So hopefully the people will be able to take over their country.

[00:15:01]>> There's a whole another minute of it, but u I think you get the gist. Um, I just miss after miss after miss. And it is it's kind of remarkable that people still tune back in, I guess, for a show like that. But he has nice suit jackets.

[00:15:15]>> I wonder what he'll say that I don't follow him to be honest, but I wonder what he'll say this week. Do you think he is he one who will say this didn't work out or is he one who will say, "No, okay, it's worked out."

[00:15:24]>> I think he worked out. Yeah. They'll study it for generations. The deal that Trump did, the deal was so beautiful. It was the best deal ever.

[00:15:32]um you know you you can just see uh what kind of impact you can have with only minimal loss of life. Uh think about how long the Vietnam War was compared to this. I think you'll get all that. Um anyway, the my last thing on this I just want to run through a couple other topics and you mentioned this but I just think it's worth just really sticking on it. If you look at the original goals set out by the administration, uh complete and total surrender was what Trump set as, you know, what he was calling for with Iran. Um they wanted regime change uh to get rid of the Kani family and the IRGC as you mentioned.

[00:16:09]They wanted freedom for the Iranian people. Uh they after all those obviously weren't going to happen. know the Rubio and Hegath line really switched to we're we want to you know limit or end their ability to project power in the region you know through their proxies through their ballistic missile program and you know we want to make sure that they cannot you know attack uh allies in the region all of those are off the table now like not we're not even close to achieving any of those last thing that they now have f fallen back on is this nuclear material and that's like basically the only one of the original goals that they even could plausibly have a positive outcome on. And we'll see if if that's even possible.

[00:16:53]>> And they seem to be getting ready to relax sanctions, give Iran a lot back a lot of frozen assets, give them frozen assets much in a much greater quantity than Obama notoriously did in his deal.

[00:17:05]Um and they're hoping to kind of reopen the straight which was open and truly open without any tolls or any nonsense about other fees you know for decades before that before we began this adventure. So I mean how can one say we haven't lost quite a substantial amount of ground. I this is even not even talking about the broader effects around the world of our allies lack of confidence in us and so forth. I mean it's a pretty disastrous thing honestly for the US. I say this without obviously that's unfortunate. That's bad. Um and Trump, but on the other hand, Trump deserves all the blame for it because guess what? This was not a war that was authorized by Congress. This is not a war that had bipartisan support. This is not a war that they made a case to the country about and then it turns out the case wasn't quite what people hoped it would be. This is Trump's war.

[00:17:50]>> That's absolutely right. All right, I want to run through a couple other headlines. the um I want to flag this story about the continued weaponization of the uh DOJ for one reason in particular. Uh federal investigators are serving subpoenas to uh left-wing streamer Hassan and the Code Pink co-founder Madia Benjamin as part of a probe into their aid convoys to Cuba earlier this year. They've had gone to Cuba to bring aid after we started the blockade. Um says before his trip to Cuba, he cleared it with the Office of Foreign Assets Control. and Benjamin say the travel came as an authorized category of providing aid to Cubans and they stayed in a hotel allowed under US regulations.

[00:18:28]Interestingly, there have been some mega influencers like Nick Shirley that that went to Cuba and stayed in hotels that are sanctioned. So, um, but I bring this up because these guys, this stuff is not an accident. Like, they do this on purpose. And it takes me back to the John Bolton thing, right?

[00:18:45]And one thing that we always were saying when they when they went after John Bolton was they they pick enemies that they think that they can go after without blowback, right? And that's a Comey, too. You know, Jim Comey, not a lot of friends. John Bolton, not a lot of friends. uh and Benjamin, you know, they have their, you know, friends on kind of the anti-war left, but in the Democratic establishment, you know, you think they figure, uh, these guys don't want to be tied to them and and you're not going to see Chuck Schumer or whatever coming, you know, going aggressively to their defense. And so I I just think that's why it's important to talk about um they've been doing this mostly targeting you know foes on and you know either never Trumper types or you know going after uh people that had been in the administration and were you know the Miles Taylor of the world, the Chris Krebs um uh turncoats you know or kind of the people that were going directly at Trump on the um on the various investigations. Uh, and like this is kind of a new category of people, but it's in the same vein of what they're trying to do. And it's totally unacceptable.

[00:19:57]>> My only thought to that would be I was struck they're going after people for going to Cuba. I mean, a lot of people have been going to Cuba for the last months and years, including under Trump.

[00:20:05]I believe his own CIA director was there talking to the Cubans, wasn't it? A week ago or something like that. I mean, they're all trying to work out, I suppose, some kind of quasi regime change. Venezuela and Cuba. Uh, in any case, it's very stri. I mean, this is part, don't you think, of the uh ratcheting up of of this support here at home for we need to do something about Cuba? I mean, Rubio said several times in the last two weeks, Cuba is a national security threat to the US. It's like really, how many a lot of there have been a lot of National Security Council meetings in the last two years, the last 10 years about the Cuban threat. Maybe I maybe I missed that somewhere, you know, but I I think they are laying the once once he once he gets out of once he's accepts whatever crummy deal he's going to accept on Iran. I do think Cuba is right in the crosshairs and maybe this is a little bit of groundwork laying for that.

[00:20:52]>> Absolutely. Yeah. No, I think this is a two-prong thing. one, it's again they're they're trying to go after people that they, you know, think that uh it's politically beneficial to go after using the Justice Department, which is just their MMO, the total weaponization of the Justice Department to go after foes.

[00:21:08]And in this case, also, yeah, that predicate and and continuing the drum beat on Cuba, which which feels inevitable. And I think that this Iran at the end of this Iran thing, if you just think about it from a psychological perspective, like they're going to feel like they need a cleaner win and they're going to try to move into Cuba. That feels inevitable to me.

[00:21:29]Just uh real quick, the um I do want to mention the uh continued Trump health issues that we're just not getting a lot of information about. He is tomorrow expected to undergo his third scheduled medical checkup in 13 months um at uh at Walter Reed. Uh it's they say it's a scheduled follow-up to the last time he was there where he received the CT scan, but they won't tell us what it was for and they didn't tell us he got a CT scan. It kind of leaked out afterwards.

[00:21:54]In addition to the three trips to Walter Reed, he's also had the two dental visits in Florida that he's had to do.

[00:21:59]Five visits. That's a lot in 13 months.

[00:22:02]I don't know, Bill, what how many times have you been to the doctor the last 13 months?

[00:22:06]>> More often, but I think maybe once.

[00:22:08]>> Less than five.

[00:22:09]>> Yeah, less than five. And also I don't have a medical office in my basement here in MLAN which is quite well equipped and very capable doctors and people will come to the White House to attend to you too from Walter Reed. So it is pretty striking.

[00:22:23]>> Yeah. You know the bruises on the neck, the hands, >> right?

[00:22:28]>> Uh it's just he just he isn't looking good. And um uh to me I it's it's meaningful in part because of the concerns like about given what is happening with Iran and like the high stakes and he's not you know they're doing this o they're trying to overcompensate with like Steven Chung your friend Steven Chung's in the White House going Trump worked today from 8 until 9 and it's like well yeah I mean we're trying to end a war that we started with Iran like that's kind of what you got to do um is work if you're going to try to do that. Um, and so like the high stakes of that with his diminishment is is noticeable and concerning and alarming.

[00:23:07]>> And psychologically, this is an AB daughter discussed this with me about a month ago and she's very shrewd about this. Does it make him more extreme and more risk taker to the degree there's a little bit of a mortality sense or a little bit of a sense, let's just say, that maybe he's not well enough to run again in two years. I do think if if that if the running again in two years kicks is there in a big way, it probably makes them a little more politically sensitive to public opinion. However many votes they can steal and intimidate and all that. Uh if it's really kind of a allin this is the moment, whatever.

[00:23:40]It's it's danger. I think it's a little dangerous given his psyche. I don't know who knows about his psyche.

[00:23:44]>> Same. I do too. Um Lauren Egan last night our colleague wrote about um a you a list I guess that is circulating among Democratic operatives of for replacing Ken Martin you know among the names on there uh my guy Btoor um former heads of like the SEIU and um and Emily's list uh Ben Wickler who is Wisconsin chair who ran against Ken Martin and lost narrowly and has said he wants nothing to do with this disaster.

[00:24:16]So, I think that's more of a wish casting uh list. Uh, does this does this matter to you? Like, what do you think the state of play is um with with Ken Martin?

[00:24:28]>> I mean, I think he did bungle that autopsy thing pretty badly and then having bungled it bungled it some more by I can't even didn't even follow it very closely, but it was so ludicrous.

[00:24:37]He released it, but they released it hurriedly with all kinds of errors and it wasn't really he didn't want to release it, so it wasn't an official release. It was like what a I mean just as a basic I mean the one thing the DNC for all their maybe not mattering ultimately about how many seats you win they presumably have communications professionals there who know how to release a report in a timely manner and go through it for typos. I don't I guess not. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know.

[00:24:59]>> And I the money thing I think is to me I look at all this and it's like that's the one thing that does matter um which is you know the Republicans are raising a bunch more money particularly at the national committee level. You can understand why people wouldn't want to give money to the DNC right now. Uh some of that is unfair. Some of that is their fault, but like who but the kind of fingerpointing on all that ultimately doesn't matter. Like the reality is like Democrats need the resources to compete.

[00:25:27]Um this is going to particularly you know the House and Senate have their own fundraising committees. So this matters more in state races and down ballot and and also but just broader efforts that that lift all votes, registration, etc. And it's like to me it doesn't really even have anything to do with like Ken Martin personally. I've never met Ken Martin. I don't know. Like who knows?

[00:25:50]Maybe this has been unfair the way he's been treated. I don't know. But it's like at this point you just need somebody in there that can bring confidence back so that the committee can raise the money they need. and and and I would just like like why not just hire somebody in the vein of Betto or whoever like that can go on to TV, you know, be competent like call the that the donors will return their calls, you know, the um and to me that is like the credential move.

[00:26:21]Agreed. So, um All right. Anything else in politics before we get to uh some Memorial Day reflections? Anything else uh catching your eye in the Senate or House races?

[00:26:30]>> Has there been anything dramatic? I guess Tuesday is tomorrow is the Texas primary and we we'll see Paxton defeat Cornin presumably. It' be f what a fantastic thing it would be after all the drama and everyone conceding the voters of Texas Republican voters of Texas. I don't expect this to happen but still decide well what the hell, you know, we'll just stick with Cornin. You know, it would be something.

[00:26:50]>> I kind of want to see Cornin humiliated.

[00:26:51]But uh the one biggest thing note not note noteworthy that was on my mind was they started going hard at Telerico. Uh Trump did from the plane um from Air Force One that some ad money already going up there to go after Telerico. Um and so I I don't know. I I think that's that's pretty telling to me um about their level of concern >> and I think maybe their hope is well a concern about Paxton as well, but you know maybe their their bet is they go and put a bunch of money in trying to paint Telerico as whatever and out of touch lefty um and and they can not have to spend as much in Texas in the edge, right? That they can fortify the race.

[00:27:36]Maybe that's their thinking. But um uh you know, if you if you go back in time a year and we said, "Hey, May 25th, Republicans are putting in a bunch of money to go after the Democrat nominee in Texas in the Senate," that would not be a great sign um for for their midterm.

[00:27:52]>> Yeah. It shows you how much things have changed in a year earlier in six. If you even go back four or five months, people would not have believed this possible, right? So that's that is striking. Yeah.

[00:28:00]>> Yeah. Even when I interviewed Telica, whenever that was, was that March? um two months, three months ago. You know, I he's talented and but I was always caveing it when people asked me about it like I think it's a long shot. You know, I think it's a bit of a stretch. Uh you know, Alaska seems a little more likely and I do think the dynamics changed pretty significantly. Um all right.

[00:28:19]Well, you had we had in the bull work and our former colleague Will Selber, you know, writing some Memorial Day reflections. You talked to Michael Wood, friend of the show, former candidate from Congress and and veteran in Texas.

[00:28:33]uh yesterday and your Sunday conversation. I'm just hoping between all that and you know your life you can leave us with some Memorial Day wisdom.

[00:28:42]Yeah, people should, my wisdom is that people should read uh Mark Hurtling's piece and Will Sver's piece from a couple of years ago that we put back up on the site and then listen to Michael Wood uh who served in Afghanistan in 2010, 2012. uh Purple Hearts and uh uh they're all very I mean there is something about the veterans have a different understanding and appreciation if I can say of Memorial Day than maybe the rest of us or certainly than I I think I do and a deeper uh understanding of of kind of what it means and and also that it's not for them just one day as uh will uh Michael Wood made this point to me you know it's not and Mark currently makes this point very eloquently every day he has on his desk a box with photos of the 230 30 maybe people who served under his command who were uh killed in in uh Iraq. Uh I think almost all in Iraq and um and he looks at them, opens the box and reflects upon their sacrifice. So for them it's a it's for us honestly it's more of a perhaps a one day not one day a year hopefully but it Memorial Day is sort of special and it should be special but for for for people who served um it's it's it's a more constant thing. But it's a it's a it's a I've always thought it's a very moving holiday and a very appropriate holiday and the way in which we celebrate it I've always thought is very American in the in the good sense. I mean a ceremony Arlington pre-Trump at least a president giving uh you know appropriate memorial remarks. um many many Memorial Day parades and gatherings all around the country without uh much grandeur but with a lot of sincerity and and uh people putting flags in cemeteries all around the country. Um yeah, sort of the opposite honestly of Trump's horrible arch.

[00:30:26]>> Yeah. Um all right. Well, shout out um much love and appreciation to all the veterans listening and the families of veterans and and folks who had loved ones who um uh we lost overseas. Um thinking about you today. Uh I am about to end this podcast and head on back to New Orleans so we can have uh get back to regular business tomorrow. So uh enjoy the holiday. Bill Crystal, thanks for joining me this morning and uh everybody else, we'll see you back here tomorrow. Peace.

[00:31:08]Whatever.