Coffee & Tea? DEEP Theological QUESTIONS About EGW's Counsel!

Added: 2026-05-05

[00:00:00]is the the tea and coffee writings like in the council on diet and foods is that inspired do we hold to that? Okay.

[00:00:09]>> Okay.

[00:00:10]>> It's a it's a similar kind of question when some people look at creation and I would say like where do you start?

[00:00:18]Like some people will actually observe the material world. They'll actually observe the world and then they'll go back to Genesis and say, "I don't know if I can trust Genesis because what Genesis says doesn't match what I observe in the created world."

[00:00:35]>> We're talking, we're getting a little deeper here. Beyond the surface, okay?

[00:00:38]Beyond the surface of coffee, beyond the surface of tea, beyond the surface of the of the product that I'm talking about in my example, okay?

[00:00:44]>> Mhm.

[00:00:45]>> Look, let me give you a basic principle, okay? Jesus said um to love. That is his commandment. Love one another. Okay, that is the most fundamental principle that undergurs every commandment, every rule, every law in the entire Bible.

[00:01:02]Okay, everything.

[00:01:04]But there are practical ways to show you don't love somebody. If I heat food in some in a in a in a container I know is harmful, is that love? And if it's not, then I'm sinning because I'm violating the very principle of love.

[00:01:18]>> Oh, I Okay, I see that. I I I can agree with that. I can I think about that real Let me let on the stream our final uh guest.

[00:01:49]This will be our last guest and then we will be drawing to a close. Let's welcome to the stage Albert. What's up my friend?

[00:01:56]>> Hello Edwin. Hello Pastor Burrell. Can y'all hear me?

[00:02:00]>> Yes sir.

[00:02:01]>> Yeah we hear you good man. Thank you for your patience there. So >> yeah. No thank thank you for having me first first and foremost. Thank you. I appreciate you guys for uh letting me ask questions. Um my question was shoot how I how did I word it? Sorry. It was.

[00:02:19]Oh yes. Um I guess how I grew up SDA.

[00:02:25]So um then I went to school and then I met a lot of new people and I started learning more about theology and then I got a a masters in biology. So my background is in healthcare.

[00:02:39]And I guess my question I had never questioned essentially like this the claims of Ellen White having or being the spirit of prophecy.

[00:02:49]>> Um so that's my main argument. I have it now. I'm having uh doubts concerning like her claims about like like food like for example tea and coffee >> as well as uh like I I don't want to say it's a it's I'll say PG like selfpleasuring like certain claims that >> I find them hard to back up scientifically they haven't been consistent and I guess what the white estate has said has not been very fulfilling at least in part for the selfpleasuring aspect. That's my my main they they they anchor on a depletion of zinc in the body where I after I hear that I feel like a lot of it is I don't know I don't know if she's bearing false witness. I don't know if I could make that claim but uh also like reading because I have the like an OG maybe from the 50s the great controversy.

[00:03:48]>> Yeah. Cool.

[00:03:50]um reading about uh like in the beginning she she uses Tertullian as well as a a quote but then I I see what Tertullian writes and his thoughts and views are inconsistent. I have a hard time finding uh like that remnant church that I was always taught in early church history at least in the first or second or even third century.

[00:04:15]>> Okay. So you you you said a lot.

[00:04:20]>> Yeah.

[00:04:21]>> Can you can you narrow it down to one specific question because there's there's a lot of points you made and for sake of time and to do justice to you, we want to just one point at a time.

[00:04:32]Right.

[00:04:32]>> I'll narrow it down to how how can what part of Lyn White's writings is inspired?

[00:04:42]uh like how do I know that what she wrote here is inspired compared to other writings where some people may argue aren't inspired or she was just saying that or that's my main quote and mainly like are the is the the tea and coffee writings like in the council on diet and foods is that inspired do we >> hold to that >> okay uh pastor Brell I'm going to let you uh take the lead on this one man and then I'll chime in after Okay. So, um that that's these are excellent questions. Uh how much can we trust the words of Ellen White? Should we uh should we place any confidence in them at all? Um, I do kind of want to start uh well, one of the things you said was actually really clear to me like how she would like she used her Tulian, but then you have uh that that you know um you have you have read for example uh places in Tertullian where he's inconsistent. It's it's important to recognize that you may you may quote a specific author on one point and not endorse or agree with all of their work and writing. That's that's a I does that make sense? I think that's just a simple one we could knock out the way that Ellen White might quote or use a source, but it doesn't mean she validates everything they've ever ever did.

[00:06:04]>> Would you would you agree with that?

[00:06:06]>> I I could see that. Yeah, you don't have to hold to anything. I guess where I go to that is what where's the I'm trying to find the remnant in the earth in the first century first second even third century before Constantine.

[00:06:20]>> Okay. Um wait say that last part again.

[00:06:25]>> Well from what I've been taught Constantine essentially is what essentially unites church and states from what I understand.

[00:06:35]>> And from there the church gets corrupted. Right. That's like but then I and essentially Sabbath uh they worship from what I've been taught uh or I could be misrepresenting it but the Sunday was the day that they worshiped the sun.

[00:06:51]Hence they switched the Sabbath to Sunday. Uh but I see I I am having trouble finding evidence from nonjudaizers in the first, second or third century that still upheld the seventh day Sabbath.

[00:07:07]Okay. I Okay, what you just said really helps me to understand your line of questions better. So, I will give a very broad answer and if you want any more specifics about what I say, you can ask.

[00:07:18]So, my very broad answer is this. Um, I would say uh is it Albert?

[00:07:24]>> Yes, >> Albert. I would say I appreciate your questions first because I I appreciate it. It it appears to me that you're approaching the conversation with honesty, like, hey, you know, are are these woman's words of value or are they consistently of value? Maybe some things she says are value valuable, maybe not others. Um, here's here's what I would say. It's a it's a similar kind of question when some people look at creation and I would say like where do you start?

[00:07:54]Like for some people will actually observe the material world. They'll actually observe the world and then they'll go back to Genesis and say, "I don't know if I can trust Genesis because what Genesis says doesn't match what I observe in the created world."

[00:08:11]Okay? But you know, we do start with a presupposition of faith. Like I'm and I I'm not trying to I'm not trying to um uh I'm not trying to go around your point. I'm just trying to make a comparison. Like for example in Hebrewsap 11 it says in verse three by faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God. Right? So that presupposition of faith says I believe in the word of God. Therefore I'm going to interpret what my observations of the physical world in light of what I've read in the word already. Okay. So, it's a similar thing with how uh Adventists view Ellen White, viewing her as an inspired source. Now, let's back up. The the broad answer is this. The only way you can make sense of anything Ellen White really says is first you have to read the Bible for yourself. And when I say read the Bible, I don't mean like, oh, I read I read a few verses from Matthew and I read a few verses from Mark and oh, I I read my little devotional book. I mean, you're gonna have to in order to really like like really know, do I take Ellen White seriously? You're gonna have to read the Bible and draw your own conclusions and actually develop your own system of belief, your own system of theology, and say, what does the Bible actually teach?

[00:09:31]And then you're going to have to ask, okay, if this is what the Bible teaches, is Ellen does does Ellen White bear evidence of this prophetic gift? And the key evidence is does she consistently agree with the teaching of scripture?

[00:09:45]And then if you if you believe the Bible and you believe that Ellen White consistently oppose the truth of the Bible, then we look we look at statements about coffee and tea and the sin of self-abuse or secret vice and we're interpreting those things through what we've already read, right? We're not going and looking at this or that person's study or this or that person's research and coming back to say, well, does Ellen White's writing fit the latest research or does the Bible?

[00:10:15]That's that's my very broad answer is it appears to me that your questions are arising more out of what order are we doing things? Are we starting with the Bible and knowing the Bible thoroughly?

[00:10:27]I'm talking about a comprehensive systematic grasp of the Bible so you can actually judge the validity of Ellen White's teachings and then you can decide what you'll do with her practical life counselss about eating and drinking and what you do in your body versus starting the other way backwards. I I'll stop right there. Does Does that make sense what I'm talking about the order of how you're defining things?

[00:10:51]>> Yes. Uh to make sure I understand what you're telling me, I'll try to reiterate briefly. You're saying my order of operation should initially start with scripture and then from there tackle on uh Ellen White and see if her writings fit with scripture. My question to that then is which Bible do I read? Like do I read do I include the apocryphal texts?

[00:11:16]Like what cannon do I hold to then? That that's another like main thing like who's my authority there. And so and so Albert, you're you're asking excellent questions. And so honestly, this might even sound weird and I don't want anybody to take this the wrong way.

[00:11:31]I I don't please don't I don't think that Ellen White's your concern right now. I really don't. Um in the sense that there are major questions about the Bible itself that you're going to have to get answered for yourself. Now it would take uh it would take another stream for us to come and talk about uh the canonicity of the Bible like which Bible books belong in the canon and how we have confidence for example that um Daniel and Ezekiel are in the canon but first and second Ed estrus are not right those are great questions but respectfully those are more of those are more foundational than should I be drinking tea or coffee and I I would say even without Ellen White's writings, I think we can see a a clear biblical principles about, you know, sexual sins like self- abuse because it involves a certain treatment of your body. It involves a certain lustful attitude of the mind that uh we can see that Jesus clearly clearly condemns. Um as a matter of fact, I think I think I think uh Jesus gives us a very strong teaching on uh by implication. You know, you have heard that it was said to those of old, "You shall not commit adultery." Matthew 5:27.

[00:12:47]But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. So Jesus exalts the righteousness of the law. And he says it's a heart matter. A lot of times we stop reading there and we don't continue. Jesus actually shows a progression. Uh he actually starts with the heart. Okay. Uh uh let's see if I can let's see if I can uh show this here. Jesus actually starts this progression with the heart. But most people don't connect that. He connects the heart with what? With your eye, right? And then he connects the heart and the eye with the hand. I personally believe that this is Jesus's tacic condemnation of the sin of self- abuse, you know. And so for me and this and this and other scriptures just about sexual immorality in general. Um so I see this and I'm like okay a sin like you mentioned self-pleasuring. I can already see that that's a sin right uh or a even more clear example because it's ultimately Genesis that gives us the definition of of sexual immorality that says therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife. they shall become one flesh.

[00:14:03]The only kind of sexual activity that the Bible ever approves is between one man and one woman in a marital covenant relationship, a lifelong exclusive relationship. So this means that sexual activity with myself is already off the table.

[00:14:17]>> So I already see that a sin. So, it's to me it's a relatively minor question of when Sister White talks about specific symptoms and conditions that might arise from practicing that sin. I'd be willing to research those a little deeper and see how they compare to modern research, but it's like I already know it's a sin, right? And so like for example if she if she says that committing this sin of self- abuse if she says like it results in imbecility. Okay. Um the Bible the Bible says like for example all sin in some way shape or form darkens our mind.

[00:14:54]All sin in some way destroys our power our powers intelligence you know our rationality. So it's really not hard to believe that committing that sin is going to have a specific effect on my mind. And now she might say other things that you're thinking of that I'm not aware of. But uh I'm sorry I'm I'm going on a little bit. I have a tendency. Let me kind of just slow down, breathe, and say, Albert, does it make sense what I'm saying that I think you have, to use a colloquialism, I think you have bigger fish to fry than uh Ellen White right now. I think you got to figure out what you believe about scripture. Uh what Okay. Is there an inspired word of God?

[00:15:34]If there is an inspired word of God, what constitutes that inspired word of God, like you're not going to know the legitimacy of any claimed prophet or messenger of the Lord without first establishing that for yourself. Does that make sense?

[00:15:48]>> Yes, I I I hear you. I I understand. I just I guess my my worries were with like I guess to to cut a breath with for example with tea and coffee where her like I'll drink I'll drink coffee for example right >> I grew up all my life they they'll tell me that it's wrong I shouldn't drink coffee and then I see Ellen White tells me that it disconnects me from God but that's not biblical like I have a hard time like I guess maintaining to because I have my framework SD DA framework.

[00:16:21]I've grown up SDA. I that's who I am.

[00:16:26]And then I'm realizing that certain certain things that I I would believe are not are are have cracks, I guess, like or alcohol, for example, where I was told that when Jesus made water into wine, the wine was actually grape juice.

[00:16:41]That I maybe I could be misinterpreting that, but then I read that text. I'm reading the text and I see that it's to me it's clearly not grape juice the uh I could I didn't prepare the text here I had the other parts there but it's clearly talking about alcohol >> for example and saying that any type of consumption of alcohol is sinful or is bad like that to me does it it goes against the scripture so I'm I'm finding myself disagreeing as I as I go through scripture with with what I have been taught before and how much to What point can I say that I am a that I affirm this these beliefs? Like then I can have an argument like what do I do if I disagree with with these things? Why who am I to say that they're wrong or that Ellen's wrong? And who's Ellen to say that she's right? Does that make sense? That's where I'm I'm having a >> Yeah. No, I I I want to and Edwin, I want you to jump in. I I'll try to say this as brief as I can. So, and I've You're asking a great question. When I say you need to have a comprehensive understanding of scripture, I'm not saying that, hey, you know, you can't have an opinion on Ellen White if you haven't read every chapter, every verse.

[00:17:54]But what I what I mean by comprehensive is I'm I'm looking at a key text in scripture, 2 Timothy 3:15-1 17. This is a key text in scripture that basically defines the nature and the purpose of the scriptures. Okay? It says that from childhood, this is Paul talking to Timothy, you have known the holy scriptures. Okay. So what are the scriptures able to do? They're able to make you wise for salvation. So what you have to understand is the core subjects.

[00:18:23]What is salvation? Okay. Now the word salvation uh the basic meaning of salvation is rescue. So in order to understand salvation you have to understand what we need to be saved or rescued from. So that means you need to understand basically what is sin. Okay.

[00:18:42]You also need to understand what is faith and you need to understand who is Christ Jesus. Okay. So I would say you need to get really clear on what is salvation, what is the the sin we need to be saved from, what is faith and who is Christ. And some of some of the questions you're asking I uh oh and by and like for example it doesn't say I don't say this uh please forgive me understand the spirit that I say this in. It doesn't sound like you're really clear on what are the holy scriptures, what actually constitutes the holy scriptures that are given by inspiration of God. Um I I would argue that I don't know that you're I don't I don't know that you're completely clear on what the Bible says sin is because you say that oh Ellen White says that drinking tea or coffee will disconnect me from God and that's not biblical. Well, it's like wait a second. Um, is there ever any action that we can do that does disconnect us from God if that if that action constitutes knowingly going against light God has revealed to us?

[00:19:48]You know, so I think these are are are key questions. What is faith? What does it mean to believe or to trust in Jesus?

[00:19:57]Does this faith is it just a mental activity? Does it include any kind of obedience or action in the life that would actually change the way I relate to certain activities in my body and certain activities in my lifestyle? This is what I mean. You got to get clear if nothing else these questions. What are the scriptures? What is salvation? What is sin? What is faith? Who is Christ?

[00:20:20]You have to be clear enough on that because you have to ask yourself, does Ellen White agree with the Bible on what are the scriptures? What is salvation?

[00:20:29]What is sin? what is faith and who is Christ? That's the only way I can know.

[00:20:34]Then from there, I can say um if she's agreeing with these, I can then say, is she legitimate in these other subjects she's tackling about specific lifestyle issues. I I I I hope that helps. Um uh uh Edwin, did you have anything or first before I go to Edwin, Albert, did you does that make sense? Did you want to respond to that? And then and then Edwin, I think you should, you know, also come in and and speak to the matter.

[00:21:04]>> Thank you for your for your answer. I I appreciate it. I I'm all I am I'm I'm just afraid of like what if I I've studied the Trinity like through what I thought would was like everybody thought was the Trinity but then I speak to like a Catholic >> and they give me something that well I had never heard of of of the Trinity. So how how do I know that my interpretation of Trinity of faith and of sin and scripture is the correct one? That's where I'm like, and what if I disagree with Ellen on those things? That that's I guess that's where I'm like I'm afraid of of of that, I guess. And I it's deeper theologically. I I it's harder to answer in like 10 or even an hour, >> but that's where I'm facing.

[00:21:53]>> And if if and and when I want you to come in, see that I'm if you disagree with Ellen White on any of those subjects, you know, uh this is this is this is all it comes down to, brother. The Bible says, and I'm I I do want to read the King James version here. Uh uh the Bible, the B just because I like the language. The Bible says, "Study to show thyself approved unto God." You have to go to the scriptures and and and hold and come to the conclusions that you believe will will have you approved unto God. Or in other words, that'll have you not ashamed when you stand before God.

[00:22:33]you I I would say and this is for you Albert and for anybody that's listening.

[00:22:37]You should only believe something that you believe in full confidence that you could stand before the throne of God.

[00:22:44]That you could stand before the judgment seat of Christ and you could hold the Bible up to Christ on his judgment seat and said, "Christ, I am fully confident that this is what you taught. I have not misrepresented you. I have not misunderstood you. I have not misled anyone in what I've been representing out of this book. That's that is this is the high moral duty that we have. And I would just encourage you, Albert, you have to go on that pursuit. Now, some of those questions you have about Protestants understand the cannon different than uh uh uh Catholics and and etc like that. I'd be glad I'd be glad and I know Edwin will also be glad to help you come to answers on some of those questions. Uh but in the end of the day, even whatever we would share and explain to you, you're going to have to draw those conclusions for yourself so that you have the confidence that I'll be approved before God. I will not be ashamed because I have not misrepresented God from his word.

[00:23:44]>> Thank you. That that makes sense. I like that.

[00:23:47]>> Hey, um this is a a fantastic conversation and great questions, Albert. I like these types of questions cuz they're deeper and more theological and they they're more they're not gotcha questions. You you come off very sincere and very honest. Um and your questions are are very deep. So I really appreciate it. I guess my thought to your question is this, right? Um in my mind, Albert, and you tell me what you think about this, and I'm going to give an example of what I mean, right?

[00:24:17]Because you're talking about tea and coffee. Is that a sin? Okay. In my mind, the practical portion of an underlying principle can lead to sin. So, let me give you an example. Okay, >> if a I'm a business owner in addition to directing the Advent defense league, I have a business and um part of my business is to use certain products.

[00:24:41]Okay. Now, say for example, Albert, I say this to my team. I say, "Listen, in order to cut costs and to save money, I'm going to now cease using the current product that we're using and I'm going to go to this product here because it's more affordable. It's better for the company. Um, the company's going to progress. However, you got to use more gloves. You got to use more masks because it's harmful." Now, I want you to think about this for a moment with me because we're talking, we're getting a little deeper here. Beyond the surface, okay? beyond the surface of coffee, beyond the surface of tea, beyond the surface of the of the product that I'm talking about in my example. Okay?

[00:25:19]>> If I go forward and make that change and we start using a product that I know is a product that is harmful, acidic, and that can cause damage. Am I sinning when I do that? Especially if somebody ends up getting hurt, yes or no?

[00:25:39]>> Uh, yes. on the product here. If if I'm understanding, if your product it is shown to be harmful and you still indulge in it, then you are sinning.

[00:25:51]Yes.

[00:25:52]>> Is that what you mean?

[00:25:53]>> That's exactly what I mean. Yeah. And and and I'm talking about somebody who knows. I'm not talking about if I didn't know that that product was so harmful.

[00:25:59]I'm talking about if I knew I knew it's harmful, >> but I make the decision to use it anyway. I'm committing sin by not only um enforcing that product but by way of causing damage to that person as well.

[00:26:12]>> So that translates a little bit into the coffee and tea example that I want to give you and then I'm going to give you a more biblical example. Okay? If we know that underneath the surface of coffee and tea and other products are harmful, right, and yet we still partake of it and yet lead others to partake of it, then let's ask the same question. Would that therefore be a sin as well?

[00:26:40]>> Yeah. If if the product Well, I guess we have to know that that product or that thing that we are using is harmful. And if we are now promoting and leading someone else to also indulge in that product, you are sinning by uh essentially by proxy. You're you're providing that to that person and and and having them fall as well. So yes.

[00:27:05]>> And yeah, and in my example, I'm using the product too. Not just I'm not just causing my workers to use it. I'm using the product too, knowing that if I use this product in my business, it's going to hurt me, right? So, am I am I sinning by using this product if I know beforehand that this product is harmful to my health?

[00:27:26]>> If it is, yeah, it is. You would be sinning if the product is harmful to your health. Yes, I I agree. I I have a hard time, I guess, to relate that to tea, coffee, or alcohol. I guess >> I'm sure I'll tell you how because it's the same it's the same thing. It's just a different a different product.

[00:27:46]Previously it was a cleaning product. I have a cleaning company. Okay.

[00:27:50]>> In this example it's a beverage. In both examples the principle remains the same.

[00:27:55]It's just a different product. If I use something I know is harmful for me.

[00:28:00]That's where the sin lies.

[00:28:02]>> The sin is not in the material.

[00:28:04]>> Okay. The material is harmful.

[00:28:06]>> But the Bible says that the sin is an action. It says sin is a transgression of the law. Sin is something you do.

[00:28:13]Okay. So if I do something that I know is wrong to do and do it anyway, that is sin. The Bible says to him that Can you show this text? To him that knows to do right and doesn't do it, to him it is sin. Do you know where that text is?

[00:28:33]>> James 4 and verse 17.

[00:28:37]>> Here it is. Therefore, and this this verse is essentially what I'm telling you, okay? To him that knows to do good, I know that the good thing is for my my employees to use a product that is not harmful to them. I know that that's the good thing.

[00:28:56]>> But because I don't do it and I don't use it, I rather use the harmful one and give them the harmful one. That's where the sin lies. We all know hopefully you know that coffee and tea and this is tea caffeine tea not a natural tea of course like a caff this is something that has a product in it that is not good for us we all know that's not good for us >> and so therefore partaking of a product or or allow or causing others to partake of product that we know isn't good for us that is sin theible caffeine isn't sorry sorry sorry sorry to cut you up from my understanding caffeine isn't inherently harmful. Caffeine is harmful in excess or if you take too much of it, you will like for example, I don't know, there's there's populations where they are very heavy tea drinkers and coffee drinkers like in Turkey and they live the same amount of years as someone that does not drink tea and caffeine. So we know although it is like not something that is either acidic means is inherently toxic the not like it the I guess the poison that is in the dose uh is what I mean >> just to respond to that are you on the phone right now? Are you using a phone right now?

[00:30:17]>> Okay. Is there something inherently harmful in using a phone?

[00:30:22]>> Not inherently but it could be harmful.

[00:30:25]>> It could be harmful. it can lead to something. So even if I grant to you and I don't really agree, but even if I grant to you that coffee is not inherently harmful, the principle I I I outline remains the same, it's going to lead to harmful effects. And if I'm doing something that's going to hurt somebody and myself, that's where the sin lies. You see, ultimately, >> at what line do I draw then? Cuz for example, if I heat up a Tupperware in my microwave, I know it has toxins in there.

[00:30:57]>> Am I Am I sitting there? Or if I accidentally like Well, I guess not accidentally because you're not doing it on purpose, but uh am I accident?

[00:31:05]>> Yeah. Is that sin? Like I feel like at that point >> Okay. Well, let me let me ask you a question.

[00:31:10]>> Where do you draw a line?

[00:31:12]>> Do you have children?

[00:31:13]>> I do not. No.

[00:31:15]>> Oh, so you might not relate to this. I have a child. I have a an 8-year-old and a four-year-old, precious children.

[00:31:20]Okay. Um, if I research a little bit and I find out that if I if I heat up food and Tupperware that that can cause the product to emit something that can be harmful, such as whatever can lead to cancer, let's say, or sickness of some sort, >> do you really think I'm going to do that to my children?

[00:31:40]>> No, you would not.

[00:31:42]>> I would not because I know that that's harmful. So to answer your question, yes, there is sin there because look, let me give you a basic principle. Okay, Jesus said um to love. That is his commandment. Love one another. Okay, that is the most fundamental principle that undergurs every commandment, every rule, every law in the entire Bible.

[00:32:05]Okay, everything.

[00:32:08]But there are practical ways to show you don't love somebody. and there are in the thousands. Okay? And if you don't if you if you do those things, you essentially break Jesus's command to love. So if so, for example, Jesus said to love your neighbor and they asked him a very practical question. Well, who's my neighbor? And what did Jesus say?

[00:32:32]Your neighbor is the person down the road you may not agree with that you look at differently. You know the story of the good man and Samaritan, >> right? That's a very practical way of explaining how to love somebody, which essentially means to love even your enemies, even somebody you don't agree with, >> even somebody particularly don't care about. Right?

[00:32:49]>> Yeah.

[00:32:50]>> So, if I heat food in some in a in a in a container I know is harmful, is that love? And if it's not, then I'm sinning because I'm violating the very principle of love. Oh, >> I Okay, I see that. I I I can agree with that. I Can I think about that real >> let me what comes to mind is there are things for example that yeah like how do I put it there is potential of harm for example um I'm I'm going into dental school in in July and I have to do Thank you.

[00:33:41]Appreciate it. And I'll have to do an incision on a patient and cut right which is wrong right like it's causing damage to the cells but to extract a impacted um wisdom teeth tooth that will cause damage. So that's where I'm like I'm still causing harm. Like I could I could I could see an argument where with coffee I could show my love with like I can show a latte art or something to my grandma who likes coffee and uh and show her that yeah it could be like if you take a lot it could be harmful but this one cup won't do anything to you truly you you won't get cancer from it. you won't like it won't do anything like that's where I I have a hard time where I guess the Tupperware is not a great example because you are actively we know that you're injecting cancerous chemicals in your food but something like natural like coffee or mustard or tea tobacco arguable they're some some say they're coming out with medication for like ADHD for example with nicotine then in the future where they can be useful or they can where you can show love. That's where I have a and I don't know if I'm going off on a tangent. Please let me know. But yeah, >> I would I would say and we we do got to draw a con uh to a close after this. So, but I to that I would say the Bible says greater love has no man than this that a man lay down his life >> his life for his friends.

[00:35:17]>> Jesus suffered the ultimate incision, didn't he? And that was a demonstration of love, right? Um, so if you're doing an incision on somebody that that does cause damage to cells, you're doing that to give life to someone like how Jesus, you know, accepted his incisions, nails on the on his hands and everything to give us life, right?

[00:35:40]>> So doing something that may cause temporary pain for the sake of helping somebody is an itself act of love. And I would actually argue not doing that would violate the principle of love, right?

[00:35:54]>> So, and so I would not argue that that that would be wrong. I would say that that would be right if we have the knowledge, the wisdom, and the education to actually do it. You see, one of our one of our on our team, Pastor R, Dr. Randy, he's a he's a medical physician.

[00:36:08]He's a surgeon. So, he if he was here, he would have spoken a bit more to this.

[00:36:12]But, um, so I would that's what I would say to that. You know, I don't think that that's wrong simply because you're you're helping to give or maintain life.

[00:36:21]>> That's why. But but in contrast, coffee and tea and all these other items are wrong. Not because you're taking life, not not because you're giving life, but on the contrary, you're depleting life.

[00:36:32]So that's the difference between the two because you're doing something that's harmful to you. Whereas in surgery, you're doing something that may be a temporary moment of pain or or incision, but is good for you. And that is a world of a difference between the two.

[00:36:50]>> That makes sense. I I appreciate the response and the time. Thank you.

[00:36:55]>> Listen, man. Come back if you'd like.

[00:36:57]Um, you know, it would be great to have you by uh next time. Um, you you're a great guest. I really I really appre your questions are the type of questions I wish I got more often.

[00:37:08]Thank you.

[00:37:10]>> Folks come up here and they just try to trap you and they just try to >> and then we got to be a little hard on them. But when I see somebody who's honest and they're they're, you know, they're asking genuine questions and maybe they don't agree still at the end, but at least they were honest people, then I appreciate that, man.

[00:37:24]>> So, thank you, buddy. I appreciate you.

[00:37:26]Listen, don't lose the faith, bro.

[00:37:28]There's there's real answers to your questions. And maybe we don't have all I live my life like this. And I'll close with this. Um, I don't have all the answers. I see in Adventism the weight of the evidence, okay? And that's why I remain an Adventist, okay? Because the weight of the evidence is there, but that doesn't mean I have all the answers. I look to other denominations and I see the weight of the evidence is not there. There's a lot of weakness in terms of theology. Um, but because the weight is here, meaning there's more evidence here to make a case, this is why I stick around. So, don't abandon the ship because of a few unanswered questions, my friend. Stick around and uh send me an email when you can. Uh, I'd love to talk to you a bit more.

[00:38:05][email protected].

[00:38:09]If you can't catch it now, come back to the stream and we're going to close so you'll see it at the end. But I'd love to continue the conversation with you, brother. All right.

[00:38:15]>> Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Pastor Barl. Thank you, Edwin. Appreciate you.

[00:38:19]>> God bless you, Albert. Thanks for your questions.

[00:38:22]>> Thank you. Bless you, brother.

[00:38:34]more.

[00:38:42]Hey