Madlanga CAN'T take Warrran Officer Marumo Magane's "STUPIDITY" act. A BIG 5 Cartel’s Police Mule 🚨

Added: 2026-05-12

[00:00:00]I can confirm.

[00:00:00]>> So my question is what did you expect the LCRC to still do after all the serious tempering?

[00:00:09]>> Uh actually uh we called the LCRC to come and take uh photos and when we count because that is the procedure. So all they would have been involved in was in counting and not doing what they ought to have done right at the beginning before your tempering.

[00:00:31]>> H we didn't anticipate uh that commissioner >> because you were clueless.

[00:00:37]>> I will take the punch. Now at paragraph 16 of your statement page six you say that uh I took out my phone and took office photos and also sent to my station commander left canary singer Al Albert Chow informing him that the operation was a success. You've read that already. You want to see it? Have you found it?

[00:01:05]>> No. Um, I was trying to search for for for page 16. I was trying to search for >> six. Six, not 16. Paragraph six.

[00:01:13]Paragraph 1 six.

[00:01:23]>> Yes, I'm there.

[00:01:24]>> I remember reading this, but there's that part and that's my interest. And you say you informed your commander that the operation was a success. What did you mean by that?

[00:01:37]>> H I was referring to that the information that we're following about those drugs we the drugs we found inside the the container.

[00:01:48]That is you seen any drugs?

[00:01:52]>> No. By the bags I assumed that these bags contained the drugs. But you had not actually seen any drugs.

[00:02:05]>> No. Isn't it when I called him?

[00:02:08]>> Yes.

[00:02:09]>> I informed him that we were following an information >> about I'm asking but you had not seen any drugs when you said the operation was a success.

[00:02:20]>> Yes. I was referring to the black bags.

[00:02:22]>> All right. All right. Of course we know that. Uh Oh, let me leave it there.

[00:02:26]Thank you very much, Warren officer.

[00:02:28]>> Thank you, Warren officer. Just to um maybe wrap up the point uh at paragraph 16 what the chair referred you to. Uh please go to uh page 1313 of the same file >> in the statement >> in the same statement file. And I'm saying >> page >> 13.

[00:03:00]>> 13. Yes.

[00:03:01]>> Of what? Of the exhibits of of the statement. There's a 13 in the statement.

[00:03:06]>> Of the exhibits on the the exhibits.

[00:03:18]>> I'm there commissioners.

[00:03:20]>> Yes. So this is uh perhaps you you explain in your own words what is depicted there on that um page.

[00:03:30]Uh the picture on this uh uh page depicts the black buggy uh that I was driving uh with black bags.

[00:03:45]>> Okay, let's let's start here. Is this the screenshot that you took from your phone h demonstrating a WhatsApp message between you and your commander child?

[00:03:56]>> That's correct, Commissioners.

[00:03:57]>> Yes. And then on that WhatsApp H screen is see a baky and then can you continue what's there? What's written there?

[00:04:05]>> Uh it's too much. How much is it? H how much is is too much? How much is the estimated value? We still waiting for the people from drug unit. They will advise us.

[00:04:23]>> So what is happening there? You see it's you send him this message. Um you say according to your statement this is a success and then he asks you what is the estimated value.

[00:04:40]>> That's correct.

[00:04:42]and you you say to him we are you are still waiting for people from drug unit they will they will advise you what what is the what is the relevance of of you discussing the value of whatever that is it is there because we don't even know for a fact >> h at that time this question was coming from the station commander I think out of curiosity or interest so to say he is the one who was asking like hence um my answer to That was we still waiting for the people from drug unit to advise us.

[00:05:17]>> Would you say that's a relevant question at that stage from from from the station commander >> between the well the the send of the message the station commander is >> h I think I wouldn't ask for I wouldn't answer for him but for me uh there was nothing sinister. Okay.

[00:05:41]All right. Let's go to paragraph 17 then of your statement uh it's on page six.

[00:05:46]>> Oh, >> page six. So >> maybe before you do paragraph just to confirm a small detail. Can we confirm that when still to do with uh your your removing of the drugs onto the van that when all of you that carried those bags did not have any gloves on?

[00:06:10]>> Definitely.

[00:06:11]Yes, commissioners.

[00:06:13]>> None of you had gloves on.

[00:06:15]>> Okay. So, so you you would have left your DNA onto the plastic bags >> most possibly and fingerprints >> and fingerprints onto the bags.

[00:06:27]>> Have DNA fingerprints >> and you accept that in the process you would have destroyed any or or in fact uh did what do you call it?

[00:06:39]reduced the quality of any DNA and fingerprints that may have been on those plastic bags originally.

[00:06:46]>> That's correct.

[00:06:47]>> And so made it difficult for LCRC later on to to conduct a proper job of lifting fingerprints and DNA from those bags because now it's contaminated with yours.

[00:07:04]>> Do you accept that?

[00:07:05]>> I accept that. But can I also say something?

[00:07:09]>> Yes, you can.

[00:07:10]>> H commissioners, you know, according to my information that I've got, uh, one cannot lift fingerprints from a plastic.

[00:07:23]You can easily lift a a a fingerprints from a metal from metal. And >> do do you know as a matter of fact that we've heard from evidence here that the LCRC attends these scenes and one of their functions is to lift to try and lift fingerprints and DNA from these coverings and from the bags. Do you know that?

[00:07:56]>> No, I don't know.

[00:07:57]>> Okay. that that's what the evidence has been from people who are involved with drug bus.

[00:08:05]Now, now you know.

[00:08:07]>> I know, Commissioner.

[00:08:08]>> All right.

[00:08:10]>> Maybe, Commissioner, if I come across such a scene, I'll be able to do my best.

[00:08:17]>> I'm I'm hoping that when you come across such a information, you will know to call the right people. You will not get involved with it.

[00:08:24]>> Definitely.

[00:08:25]a a a commissioners that is a learning curve.

[00:08:30]>> Thank you.

[00:08:34]um warrant officer. Let's continue on paragraph 17 of your statement.

[00:08:58]>> Perhaps while you're looking for it, can you fly it?

[00:09:01]>> Yeah, I'm there.

[00:09:02]>> Yes. Um, can you fly out for us from the exhibit bundle? Uh, that will be the stain bundle that was used yesterday. Uh, page four.

[00:09:20]Page four. Stain stains bundle.

[00:09:24]So, it was the one commissioner that was used by um stain yesterday.

[00:10:04]Are are you there?

[00:10:05]>> I'm there, Commissioners.

[00:10:07]>> Yes. Just to wrap up the point of the discussion you're having with Commissioner Baloy. Um I think the person there appearing there is Connell Wood, but that's what what I want to direct you to. There's a person there wearing a red jacket. Can you see the person?

[00:10:23]>> Yes, I can see commissioners.

[00:10:25]>> And you can see the person is wearing the gloves.

[00:10:27]>> That's correct, Commissioners.

[00:10:29]>> And you can see the bags that we're discussing uh in front of her.

[00:10:34]>> That's correct, Commissioner. I can confirm.

[00:10:37]>> Yes. Then I put it to you that your proposition that there was no need for you to wear gloves is unsustainable because the very same aspect as you can see there is wearing gloves for a purpose.

[00:10:52]You accept that?

[00:10:53]>> I I accept that.

[00:10:54]>> Okay. Let's then go back to >> Did I'm Did you get the witness to identify who the person is? I'm sorry. I I may have missed that.

[00:11:05]>> No, no, no, no. The person the face is cut half. Oh, it's it's it's kind of wood, but I a witness wouldn't know.

[00:11:12]>> Oh, okay.

[00:11:13]>> But the the point was to to deal with the issue of the gloves.

[00:11:17]>> Okay.

[00:11:17]>> Um that that that was been discussed with Commissioner Baloy.

[00:11:21]>> Um officer, let's go to We've been stuck at paragraph 17 uh page six. Um let's >> of my statement.

[00:11:31]>> So go back to your statement.

[00:11:33]>> Yeah. Must I take >> your statement file? Yeah. Put that away that one away.

[00:11:39]You say paragraph 17 >> 17.

[00:11:44]>> We had to use a forklift.

[00:11:48]>> We had to use a forklift to take out the truck caps which were also loaded inside the container. Chief Mashaba and I realized that it was going to be impossible for the forklift to unload the truck on the loading bay. while there were bags already on the ground stuck near the wheels of the trailer. As a result, we instructed H Skyer staff to load the bags at the back of my uh service park while we were waiting for other members and so that the truck can reverse close to the loading bay.

[00:12:28]>> At this point, you're just waiting for Pakula, right? Because that's who you've spoken to.

[00:12:33]>> Yes. And uh he confirmed >> I know you say he said he'll tell other people.

[00:12:39]>> That's correct. You haven't called anyone else at this point.

[00:12:41]>> No no it was >> you waiting for Pakula.

[00:12:44]>> That's correct.

[00:12:44]>> Who works in Ptoria >> national office Nino?

[00:12:48]>> Yes >> that's correct.

[00:12:51]Miss Wel confirmed that they were expecting a truck caps from Brazil but denied any knowledge of the black bags which were suspect to be carrying drugs.

[00:13:02]We also interviewed the driver, Mr. Brighton Vimu, and he also denied any knowledge about those bags. It was 23 large bags of suspected cocaine. We then placed the driver of the truck, the warehouse supervisor, Miss Welen, and the warehouse receiver, Mr. Cornelius, under arrest for dealing in drugs possession. At this stage, you did not even know that it was drugs. For all you knew, it could have been blankets in those bags. Why did you place him under arrest >> for dealing with drugs or being in possession of drugs? You don't even say suspected. You say, uh, we place the driver of the truck under arrest for dealing in drugs/ possession of drugs.

[00:13:55]But you didn't know that it was drugs in those bags at that stage. Uh, Commissioners, >> unless you were sure that it was drugs.

[00:14:04]Uh, >> commissioners, can I take you back to the same paragraph where it says it was 23 large bags of suspected cookie?

[00:14:15]>> I get that part.

[00:14:17]>> Now you you've got bags and you suspect that they are cocaine, but you take it a step further. You say you arrest him for dealing in drugs, not even possession.

[00:14:30]You arrest him for dealing in drugs/p possession of drugs.

[00:14:36]>> That it's a an alternative charge possession of drugs.

[00:14:44]>> Yes. But I'm saying at this stage you don't even know that is drugs in there.

[00:14:49]You still have a suspicion but you don't even know. But you're already arresting people for being in possession of something you don't know.

[00:15:01]uh at this stage I would say h we based on our suspicion which were later confirmed.

[00:15:12]>> No, forget about what was confirmed later. You already effecting an arrest.

[00:15:16]You're saying here you place the people under arrest for being in possession of drugs and for dealing in drugs. I mean, for you to arrest somebody for being in possession of drugs, you must know that they are drugs.

[00:15:34]>> I agree, Commissioner.

[00:15:36]>> And here you say the bags had not even been opened. So, for all you know, it could have been blankets in those bags >> or some other powder.

[00:15:47]May have been any powder uh or or even a brick in there. So you haven't opened the bags. All you have is the informer who's not even your informer is Mr. Mashaba's inform. But you subs not Mr. Mashaba. You are the one that effects an arrest based on uh suspicion of matter that you haven't even had a look at. All you have is black bags.

[00:16:17]Ex explain how that makes sense and and how that fits in with proper police procedures.

[00:16:25]uh commissioners I wouldn't say this was premature but uh to bring uh more sense in this I would say because according to the information that was given by the informer everything is is confirmed.

[00:16:51]No, >> not everything is confirmed. It's black bags. They mean nothing to me. Even as you're sitting there saying to me there are there are drugs in there. I will ask you did you open and look which you didn't ask your informer. You haven't told us that. You asked your informer the informer to did you see what's inside. You tell us you didn't open the bags. So we know as you sit there that all you have in front of you is bags.

[00:17:23]>> The informer has said there will be drugs in that truck. So the question that commissioner Kumalo is asking you is how do you ar youed policemen?

[00:17:36]How do you arrest people on the basis of what you haven't seen and confirmed for yourself that this is indeed drugs?

[00:17:51]That's what you're being asked. How how do you do that?

[00:17:56]>> Uh my answer to that, Commissioner, I would say it was premature. Unless you already knew that there were drugs in this container >> and that was your reason for going there.

[00:18:11]>> Commissioner, uh I don't want to come defensive.

[00:18:16]Uh I take that other punch, >> the premature one.

[00:18:21]>> I I take this one that maybe the arrest was premature.

[00:18:26]>> Not that you knew that in the container and in the bags it was gain and you knew that in advance.

[00:18:37]Because yes, it was just trucks.

[00:18:39]>> Okay, let let me test this. Why did you not open one bag and satisfy yourself that yes, the information from the whistleblower or the source is correct.

[00:18:51]I've opened this. I've opened one of the bags. I can actually see that it is white powder. I have not tested it, but based on what I know, it might be drugs.

[00:19:03]Why didn't you at least open to check?

[00:19:06]And I'm not suggesting that you should have opened it. I'm just testing uh at at that stage, Commissioner. Uh I think it was too still too early and uh I I personally will think that we will be tempering with the the the the evidence and moreover we don't have any experience >> and just remind us last time you may have said it already so I apologize for asking again. What was your reason for loading these bags in your van which does not have a canopy? And the reason I'm asking you this is you saw later on when the LCRC people arrived, the bags were put on the ground in the pavement and photos were taken of the bags. I'm trying to understand why you did not pack these bags on the pavement so that you wait for LCRC or other people to arrive and attend to them. Why did you see the need to load them in the back of your van? Uh commissioner, I think at this stage h when the bags were loaded at the back of the park, it was only me and Mashaba at the scene and >> yes, what was the reason?

[00:20:34]I'm I'm trying to get the commissioner being that the case the scene it was now getting a e a more chaotic.

[00:20:49]So for us to to to to safeguard because if uh the scene I mean if the bags were loaded at the back of we could easily see if someone will go and maybe try and get grab one or that is that was the the the main idea as you were loading them.

[00:21:12]>> That's correct. Commissioner, >> did did you keep a record as you were loading them in the back of your bike?

[00:21:19]>> Yes, Commissioner, you know, on that day in question, I had my diary with me. Yes.

[00:21:26]>> Because uh I just visited the station.

[00:21:28]So what happened is that h I was even h taking notes of everything that was happening there. H like the registration of the cars and everything. This was also even the serial number of the seal.

[00:21:44]So when we were arrested, what happened is h my diary was inside the car and it was inside the car. So h after our arrest the bike was taken to poison station for safekeeping.

[00:22:04]So late after two weeks when we were released when we got paid h the diary was nowhere to be found.

[00:22:12]>> So the diary is missing.

[00:22:14]>> It was it it was missing. I thought maybe it will be in the 13 but it was not there.

[00:22:19]>> Okay.

[00:22:19]>> This is a fair answer commissioner.

[00:22:21]>> Thank you.

[00:22:24]So we we established earlier that the the truck belongs to Scenia and the driver is employed by Scenia.

[00:22:37]You have removed the truck. No, by yellow jersey.

[00:22:44]The truck and the driver. You have removed the truck from yellow jersey. Why are you arresting the driver now? Remember he came with a container which has a seal to it. It's not an open container. It has a seal.

[00:23:00]Why are you address are you arresting him?

[00:23:04]>> Uh commissioner the the drugs were transported from Devon to Iroon or yellow >> pirate drive. Do do you know anything about the sealing of the container from its original um source where it came from Brazil? how how that works up to it gets to the harbor and from the harbor to the depo from the depo it's now on its way to howing that seal there do you know whether it was broken by the driver along the way or that it was actually as it came from Brazil did you know anything about it did you ask any questions >> no I will be lying >> so you arrest the driver even though the container has an original seal presumably from the original uh point of departure in Brazil. You arrest the driver even though he didn't put in these drugs in the truck >> by the virtue of him being a the driver from from Devon. We arrested we arrested we arrested him based on that. You arrested him for driving the the drugs.

[00:24:23]>> For transporting the drugs?

[00:24:24]>> Yes. Driving the drugs.

[00:24:26]>> That's what I commit. Okay.

[00:24:32]>> Um, officer Makane. Um, you came here to testify and assist the commission to the best of of your at least recollection of what transpired.

[00:24:47]Um what I really need is for you to be very pointed on some of the issues.

[00:24:55]Um more often you refer to the royal we and you are here to testify for yourself. There come a point whether you did it or Mr. Mashaba or Chief Mashaba did it.

[00:25:09]>> So it can't be both. You can't be singing in unisome at all times.

[00:25:13]>> I hear you commissioner.

[00:25:14]>> Yes. Now let's start at paragraph 18.

[00:25:20]when you say so on page seven paragraph 18 we say we also interviewed the driver is it you or is it chief mashaba >> h both of us that can be how's that possible I mean if you asking a question I'm also here and So it's it it will be you asking a question when you answer then I also pose my question >> then the very same sent well or the very next sentence you say we placed the driver of the truck.

[00:26:06]>> No this one h it was the the the arrest part was done by chief Mashawa.

[00:26:12]>> Mashawa.

[00:26:13]>> Yes.

[00:26:13]>> Okay. Please, next next time we see the word we and where it's possible, let's let's try to identify whether it's you or Mashaba.

[00:26:22]Um, as we move on, please.

[00:26:25]>> No, no, that's fine. For now, I'll I'll take that. Let's move on to paragraph 19. I'm I'm just saying keep in mind when you see the word we try to to identify who said what, who did what commissioners, >> thank you so much. Let's go then to paragraph 18. While while busy at the scene >> while busy at the scene and waiting for others SAPS members to arrive, two members from poisons visent do and constable muiri arrived in a marked police bi and told us that they have received a call from 101 about people who were impersonating to be police officers. Ju just just to be clear the while waiting for other subs members you're still referring to Pakula.

[00:27:19]>> That's correct.

[00:27:20]>> And whoever you are hoping he has called.

[00:27:23]>> Yes.

[00:27:23]>> Cuz you haven't called anyone else.

[00:27:26]>> No it was still Pakula then.

[00:27:28]>> Thank you.

[00:27:30]H we then identify ourselves and explain the reason for our present at that premises and even showed them the bags that were recovered. We also showed them the arrested suspect and they understood and even gave feedback to 101 via radio control.

[00:27:54]Though immediately after we had a bit of an argument with them because without even asking how they can assist they they asked us where we are going to book the suspect and the exhibit.

[00:28:11]I told them that we were likely to go book the suspect and exhibit in Alawatin area because the scene started in that area. But we we were still waiting for relevant role players to come and decide.

[00:28:26]>> What what do you mean the scene started in that area? Erh, I was referring to uh I was talking I was referring to the fact that uh where we first uh went in in in Ro before we came to to to to to >> so you deter so your being in Rodicop you're saying that's what determines that's that's where the scene started your physical presence is that what it means that the scene started there.

[00:29:03]>> H I would say that but you know technically so commissioners h it brought some discomfort to to to to to us that members will come from nowhere. We understand they got a a a a complaint from 101.

[00:29:26]Upon arrival, they are now asking about h the place where the exhibit will be booked and the suspect.

[00:29:38]I didn't meant that h those things I I was just pulling their legs.

[00:29:46]>> So you were lying to them. Not lying necessarily.

[00:29:49]>> No, it is >> testing their >> you were being untruthful to them. If if now you say you were just pulling their leg, you were not telling them the truth when you said to them we are going to book this in Albertton. You've just said that's not it wasn't the truth as you said it.

[00:30:06]>> Not in the context of telling lies.

[00:30:08]>> It wasn't the truth.

[00:30:13]Uh, I would say so, but Commissioner, you know, um, >> so what was the plan with these drugs?

[00:30:22]Where were where were you going to take them? Now, now we've established that it wasn't true that you are taking you were planning to take it to Albertton. Where were you planning to take these drugs?

[00:30:33]>> These drugs were going to be booked at poisons and the suspect were going to be booked at poisons. Okay. So when you say that we are still waiting for relevant role players to come and decide what were you conveying because this is your statement.

[00:30:53]>> This is my statement. I agree.

[00:30:54]>> So what were you conveying when you said we're still waiting for the role players to come and decide if if you have already decided they will go to poison.

[00:31:05]No, no, no. This was just additional to to do. But the fact of the matter is was that and even a a I mean even procedurally dictates that because the drugs were found in in in that is where the the suspect and the the exhibit must be put.

[00:31:29]>> So these police officers would have known that. So you were you were not pulling their legs in any meaningful way because you say procedurally uh that's how it's supposed to happen.

[00:31:40]So these police officers you would not have any reason to argue with them because you say uh we started arguing uh about after they asked that um and I'm saying well they knew you say they knew because procedurally that's that's what happens. So they wouldn't have asked the question if they knew that these would have to be booked in boans. In fact, they would have told you these must go to boans.

[00:32:09]>> That is why I'm saying >> which makes me ask the question >> when you answered the way you did what when you took these drugs and put them on the van because they are on your van and there's just you and Mashaba there.

[00:32:23]What was the plan? Boys is not yet there. These police officers, they arrive, they ask questions. You say, "Well, the crime scene started there."

[00:32:33]And I asked you, "Why? Why Albertton?"

[00:32:35]You said, "Because that's where that's the original crime scene. That's where it started. That's why Albertton."

[00:32:44]So I accept that explanation to the on face value. That's where the scene started. So yeah, on your reasoning, you would have gone to Albertton.

[00:32:56]But rightfully it was the the drugs were not going to the drugs including the the suspect we were not going to book them in in in in in Albertton and because another thing commissioners it was very strange Sergeant No it's a sergeant why was he asking >> no forget forget no and why he's asking let's talk about you >> that's correct >> you did not report yourselves to boys in police station. Commissioner Kumo asked you the question earlier that we've had other evidence where people who are operating outside of their jurisdiction, they go and report. We were told that's what you do. You did not do that. Boys doesn't know you around. Boen doesn't know that you've got this amount of drugs. You haven't called boys to ask them do you have space for this but you say to us well they are on your truck you had already decided they will go to boys and make that make sense.

[00:34:06]erh commissioner uh the answer that I'm I'm I'm I'm giving to the commissioners is exactly what was going to happen the drugs and the and the exhibit were going to be booked at poison and uh commissioner just to take one step back uh I'm trying to answer to to to the question uh the previous question that was raised that why I didn't source I didn't phone 101 you know h as chaotic as the that the the scene unfolded it was because uh of h this thing was was was trans was sent to the radio control. That's why more police started flocking in.

[00:35:12]>> The question asked about 10 triple one was long before the call the was about long before the car was happened. You were asked the question you have an inform an informer according to Mashaba who says there are drugs there. You go there you go to yellow jersey. It's just the two of you and your informer. And then you proceed from there. You go to Scania and it's you Mashaba and your informer and the security from Scania and the employee I mean from yellow jersey the security men and then you've got Scania people Venzel and somebody and somebody. So there's no chaos at that point. The question was asked in that context that when you arrived there why did you as you are calling all of these other people on your way and when you arrive there you're calling all of these people to come and help you and many of them are not available why did you not call 101 the answer can be because of chaos because at that point there is no chaos nothing has happened yet >> I I agree >> you haven't even opened the container the drugs haven't yet fallen out there's nobody else so it's a I agree.

[00:36:28]>> Conversation al together. So it has nothing to do with this.

[00:36:31]>> I agree.

[00:36:32]>> Yes. Thank you.

[00:36:35]>> Can I just understand this? Was it your intention to transport these bags either to Boon's police station or Albertton in this backy of yours without a canopy uncovered? How did you plan to move those bags from Eraton to wherever you are going to book them?

[00:36:59]>> Commissioner, uh, I would definitely wouldn't have risk to take the to transport this the this this these trucks without proper escort and without like in an open park like this. But you hadn't called any escort. No.

[00:37:22]>> You had only called Pakula. And if he hadn't arrived, what would you have done?

[00:37:27]>> No. Commissioner, the scene was still on was still far from over. We were not going to leave until the scene was properly handled and everything processed at the scene. It it was still very early.

[00:37:41]>> But you you had taken no steps to call the people who were supposed to process the scene. You had only called Pakula who said he was busy and once you verified that there are drugs there then he might make a turn. But at this point as we had already agreed all you knew was that you found bags in the container and you loaded them on your baky and you had arrested people. That's where you were commissioners. Yeah. Maybe because there's no timelines. It was not it was not even an hour that we were at the scene. It was between because if I must be h approximately we were we arrived at the scene between 8 and 10.

[00:38:36]The poisons e e guys arrived maybe 20 minutes late while the scene was still it while the scene was not even processed as yet.

[00:38:52]So it was still very early to say no this is how we going to to to to h transport the intention of loading this h a bags at the back of the bag was solely to secure them.

[00:39:14]Nothing else. There was no other ulterior motive.

[00:39:18]>> There's one thing I need to test with you before you deal with your interaction with other officers and even your arrest. I think it's in the stain exhibits.

[00:39:40]If you go to page 116, >> I'm not sure if the witness has 115 of the stain exhibits.

[00:40:07]Maybe to be fair to you, warrant officer, uh, for the purposes of the record, it's CJC 217 and then it starts on page 109. Just go back to 109.

[00:40:38]I'm there commissioners.

[00:40:39]>> I think we've already established that that is your backy.

[00:40:43]>> I agree.

[00:40:44]>> I don't Are we able? Thank you so much.

[00:40:46]Um that is your baky after the bags were loaded onto it.

[00:40:52]>> That's correct.

[00:40:52]>> And and the police vehicle that arrived is that one that is parked right in front of the buggy.

[00:40:58]>> That's correct. in that photo that is on page 109 and then uh you'll see that this is a news 24 or media 24 newspaper article from the 22nd of February 2025.

[00:41:12]Do you see that >> on top of uh page 109 top left >> where there's a headline update crime intelligence battle?

[00:41:24]>> I see that >> just on top of that there's a date 22 February 2025. Do you see that?

[00:41:31]>> It's last year on the 22nd of February.

[00:41:33]>> And what they do here they deal with the disciplinary proceedings relating to General Khan. But if you go to 115 and this is what caused the confusion.

[00:41:52]Remember I was confused about the 5 series 7 series. If you go to the top of the page you will see that the newspaper article >> 115.

[00:42:03]>> Yes.

[00:42:05]>> Yes I see it. Commissioner >> 115. The newspaper article had identified the vehicle as a 5 series and not a 7 series.

[00:42:13]>> It's a seven series >> and and I'm embarrassed to have fallen for it. I should know better. It is a seven series.

[00:42:19]>> It's an human error. Uh commissioner, >> yes, but I am embarrassed. Um and then halfway down that page, you will see that there is something that appears to be a WhatsApp chat between two people.

[00:42:36]still on page 115.

[00:42:38]>> I see that commissioner.

[00:42:40]>> Yes. Uh and we don't know who the source is because this is in a newspaper article. But I think it's only fair that I ask you because you are here. I don't want there to be insinuations that it is you if it's not you. So to be fair to you, I want you to respond to this and tell us whether it is you who's participating in those WhatsApp chats because what is clearly happening here is that these people know that there was cocaine and it belonged to somebody and they had located where it was and they were reporting back to the owner of this cocaine that it is at this place and this is what is happening with it. So I just want you to tell us if it is you who is participating in this chats. If it's not you whether you know who is this person who is participating in this judge >> h I'll be honest with you commissioners yesterday as I was uh following this I was also I I I don't have a knowledge as to where is this thing coming from and who uh are the people who were involved talking who were chatting on this I saw it for the first time yesterday while General Kenstein was testifying >> and I hope you did not fashion your evidence based on what you were watching yesterday.

[00:44:16]>> No, some you align yourself and see I mean if >> No, you must tell the truth. There's no need to >> No, no, I'm I'm telling the truth.

[00:44:23]That's why I'm so comfortable. But but you can clearly see looking at that chat that it refers to the containers and that the containers are still there and whoever the other person is. If you look at the blue bars, they say uh then send the pigs with the seal so I can show the people I'm getting heavy threads. Give me till seven boss. I'm pressing all these guys. Do you see that? uh commissioner maybe because I don't follow I see this 2021 that but this uh article was uh for last year February am I correct >> no no but remember the point is this chat was taking place >> while the scene was still live on the 9th of July 2021 that's the point of it >> h what time was this chat made >> warrant officer let's not concern ourselves with the time. Remember my simple question was >> are you participating in this chats? Not at all.

[00:45:25]>> The answer is no. Do you know who was participating?

[00:45:28]>> Not at all.

[00:45:29]>> And if you don't know, you don't know.

[00:45:30]>> I don't know.

[00:45:31]>> So don't try to analyze.

[00:45:33]>> No, no. I'm I'm sorry.

[00:45:34]>> As I said, we don't know what the source is. And I was only being fair to you by referring you to them so that we don't leave it unattended and people assume that it was you who was reporting back to the owners of this drug. No h like I'm saying h on this day in question on the night I was the first one to be arrested and so h my phone was taken away at h at around 12:00 and I if this chat I would h like to distance myself from this chart I don't know the >> and we if if we manage to access your phone. We will not find the chats that put you in trouble.

[00:46:24]>> Not at all. I can even This is the phone that I was using during my arrest. Even today, I'm still using the same.

[00:46:31]>> You know, we can retrieve >> the the the one time view.

[00:46:35]>> Yes.

[00:46:37]>> Yeah. So, it >> Let's leave it there.

[00:46:51]Um, officer uh Mahani just on the issue of of Albertton.

[00:46:59]Um, you had testified earlier on that you requested Warren Officer Pagula to come and assist you. Is that correct?

[00:47:11]>> That's correct. commissioners >> and you further stated that uh he said he will bring some people to assist him.

[00:47:16]>> That's correct.

[00:47:18]>> Yes.

[00:47:19]Now when Commissioner Baloy asked you earlier on about Albertton, you said no you were in fact misleading the two police officials from Boise. H it was not your intention to go to Albert. Do did you say that >> in all fairness?

[00:47:39]>> Yes. But I put it to you that in fact when you spoke to warrant officer Pakula, you in fact told him to meet you at Albertton. What what's your comment to that?

[00:47:54]>> No, that was not the arrangement.

[00:47:57]>> He he is lying when if if if if he was to be found saying that he'll be lying.

[00:48:01]>> No, that was not the arrangement. That was never the only thing that I said to him. It's also in my statement was that upon confirmation of uh the information then I'll I'll re I I'll revert to him.

[00:48:22]Then let's go to it's page 235.

[00:48:31]I want you to refer you to a warning statement. So, we are on the the exhibit bundle.

[00:48:40]No, no, no. He's Yeah.

[00:48:49]235 Now that's a handwritten statement uh by Sergeant Pagula and I want you to look at paragraph two of that statement. Um perhaps can you try and read that into the record? What's said in paragraph 2?

[00:49:25]It's right at the bottom.

[00:49:28]I paragraph two.

[00:49:31]>> Yes. H I I don't know whether it's I contacted my immediate commander Captain Murupi informing him that I was I was contacted by Warren Officer Muani to assist him in a possible drugs and that he should join me at Albertton.

[00:50:00]I first I proceeded to Albaton SAPS. I waited for him. Uh I could I called Muana to ask uh if he will come and I should I should wait.

[00:50:26]Uh let me ask for him. I think it says let me assist you there warrant officer. It says I called Muana to ask for how long I should wait >> for him.

[00:50:45]>> For him >> yes >> he requested that I should come to Irunia Park.

[00:50:51]>> Yes >> I arrive at >> No that that that's fine. um what I wanted to put to you and perhaps if you go further uh to page in the same bundle 385 there. Are you there?

[00:51:27]>> Some of the commissioners >> now that is a a written statement by and this is under boy's 25210 of 2021.

[00:51:41]It's a it's a statement by Rama William Midupi and we have established that uh William Midupi is captain and that he was called by warrant officer Pagula.

[00:51:59]Now at paragraph 3 I will read that into the record for you. It says on Friday 2021 0709 in the morning I was at home as we were working rotation when I received a call from warrant officer Pagula informing me that they are following up on a certain information and I must join them in Albertton.

[00:52:30]I then proceeded to Albertton to join them and only to find that they have left. I called them and they informed me that they are now inherited.

[00:52:46]So the proposition I'm putting to you that the option of going to Albertton was a reality and only it was disturbed by the presence or arrival of the boys's uh vis police. What what's your what's your >> No, that that is incorrect.

[00:53:16]Why would Warren Officer um Papula say exactly the same thing that you said to the boys's um police officers?

[00:53:28]They they are in completely different environments and uh warrant officer Pakula refers to your conversation with him including that he started from his original place. He was on his way to Albertton Saps because you had said to him and I read at page 376 his type statement that I then proceeded to Albertton subs as I was informed that they might be bringing the truck and the driver to Albertin for detention as a place where the crime scene started initially. It's exactly what you say in your statement. And you told the boys's policemen >> but the the the arrangement that e that we will meet uh with warrant officer Pakula at Albertton it was not going to come because from yellow jersey the the the the the arrangement was that we follow the track up until it it reaches I return And upon verification of of of of the information then I will call Warren Pakula to come through.

[00:54:47]>> That was the arrangement. You say that was the arrangement. With whom did you make that arrangement >> with warrant officer Pakula? So warrant warrant officer Pakula is being untruthful in his statement when he says uh that after he contacted his superior commander Sipunga and informed him I received and gave permission to proceed and assist warrant officer Muana that's what he says I then proceeded to Albertton subs I was informed that they might be bringing the truck and the driver to Albertton for detention as a place where the crime scene started initially.

[00:55:27]That's exactly what you say in your statement that you said to the boys's police officers. And you've you're not denying you said that to the boys's >> exactly.

[00:55:38]>> What is the probability that warrant officer Pakula would say you told him exactly the same thing?

[00:55:49]>> Some someone is being untruthful.

[00:55:52]Are you saying warrant officer Pakula is untruthful to say you repeated to to to quote you as saying to him exactly what you tell us you said to the boys's people?

[00:56:05]>> H I would say so because this was not part of our discussion.

[00:56:09]>> I want to put to you that it's improbable. You have not given a reason why he would either be mistaken to repeat exactly what you said to the boys's people that you said it to him.

[00:56:23]Uh why he would be mistaken. You're not giving us a reason why he would be untruthful in his statement that is made in 20.

[00:56:34]I'll tell you when that statement was made.

[00:56:42]that it was made in October 2021 when this happened in July. Uh you haven't provided an explanation why he's mistaken and why he would be untruthful about it. And I want to suggest to you that it it indicates uh or the probabilities that you you are the one that's being untruthful about what you said to Pakula one two and the real intention about what was going to happen with those trucks and in fact the real intention was they were not going to poisons >> you were taking them elsewhere. you and Mashaba >> and that's why it was your operation just the two of you that's why you who it is not your everyday job to do this you go out of the office to go and assist with a drug bust about which you are completely inexperienced know nothing about you don't tell anyone of your of your colleagues at the station to say come let's go help you leave alone you call everybody else that has nothing to do with it. And then you go and you mess up the scene as badly as you did. You put these bags in the in an open baky um that's going to transport them and it's just the two of you. You haven't called LCRC.

[00:58:16]You haven't called TRT to come and escort you. You've done nothing that is about ensuring that these drugs are properly processed.

[00:58:28]What it indicates, I want to suggest to you, what it indicates is there was no good intentions on your part to get these drugs to be properly dealt with as prescribed by the law. In fact, you had ulterior motives about putting them in that vein and you were going to take them where they would not be accounted for. What do you say to that? Uh >> commissioners h with all fairness I don't agree to the suggestion of the commissioner.

[00:59:01]Commissioners if I had any in intention of doing the wrong thing one I wouldn't have left my cell phone with Mr. the my cell phone that is record on my name. Number two, Omnia Park. It's a a a well well it's a modern a a a modern e industrial area which I think it has a a a cameras all over and so I wouldn't be so dumb to go steal in front of everybody. Meanwhile, I know that e my identity identity was not concealed. And another thing I was going to be easily traced the park that I was using it's a state it's a state car and h at scan I mean at yellow there's also a cameras that suggest h even if I left w e with the that consignment I was still going to be easily traced if commissioners me and Mashaba or we had a a a an ulterior motive. I think this was going going to need a proper planning >> badly planned. That's why it was such a mess. That's that's why you are handling uh bags of exhibits the way that you're doing. It's because you you poorly planned this thing. It's poorly planned.

[01:01:05]Firstly, you didn't know that there are cameras at Scenia. You didn't know that.

[01:01:09]You go there for the first time that they happen to be there. Well, it's poor planning. You hadn't scoped that place first. So, that doesn't count. It's irrelevant for purpose of what I'm suggesting to you that there were cameras. It's an after effect, after the fact. Um, this was a badly planned thing. You know nothing about drug operations. We've seen that.

[01:01:35]You know nothing. We've seen from your evidence and from what your commander says, you had no business to be there to leave your office job and go there to assist someone that you say, "Well, I've met him before. I don't have a relationship with him." You So, you know nothing about him. He could well have been corrupt on your evidence. You know nothing about him. You say, "I went there to help."

[01:02:02]So what and now Commissioner Kumalo has referred us to those WhatsApp messages that actually indicate that this loot this this this consignment of drugs there were people who had an interest in it. You so happened to be in the middle of it. You and Mashaba happened to be in the middle of it. But we know from those WhatsApp messages that that was somebody's consignment and someone was being threatened and someone was under pressure to to get it out and delivered to them. We know all of that. It happens to be a consignment that you Mahane who has nothing to do with with drug operations are involved in in a scene where you haven't called a single role player who is involved with drug enforcement. You haven't there's no LCRC, there's no SNAP, there's nothing.

[01:03:00]You say we are in poison, you don't call boys.

[01:03:04]They surprise you. In fact, I want to say to you because someone has called 101, one of the Vans Scenia people, they surprise you by arriving there. You even argue with them and you lie to them to say we are going. You don't say, you know what, you have nothing to worry about. These are going to your station.

[01:03:24]You lie to them. You say they're going to Albertton. That's your first answer.

[01:03:28]Pakula says, that's exactly what you told him.

[01:03:32]and these drugs had no business to go to Albertton. But you're being untruthful about about this. So what I'm suggesting to you or what I'm putting to you is that this whole operation, it was never otherwise you would have played things by the book. You would have done everything by the book as a seasoned police officer. There was never an intention for this loot to be properly at least not all of it to be properly accounted for. And in fact I want to suggest to you had you left before the vis before the boys's people arrived you and and Mashaba had you left you may well have accounted for some but not all of it at your police station. That what I want to that's what I'm suggesting to you that there was no good intentions about it.

[01:04:28]You can comment if you want to uh commissioners uh maybe I don't know how to put this even from the bottom of my heart I had no intention of h driving away from from the scene before the scene was properly processed.

[01:04:59]That's why and I'll stand by by by by the truth. If I had intention, I'm still repeating this. If I had intention of stealing the drugs, maybe I would have used and like I'm saying I only received the the the the the the the call from Mashaba that particular morning and from there I was briefed and honestly I contacted like e the trail of calls that I made were from different people Unfortunately, like warrant officer Chidi, warrant officer Chidi is is is from crime intelligence and warrant officer Puani is from Albaton. So I'm trying to demonstrate my e my fairness of of saying I had no intention of stealing this this the the the drugs or taking them elsewhere. Hence I'm saying I'm I was not even I'm not I'm not lying to the commission. I'm not part of this conversation between whoever is here.

[01:06:17]That's my innocency. I'm trying to demonstrate that that I had no intention of taking the drugs from where they were recovered and to another destination that is with people h that I mean I've I've only known that morning. So why would I risk with my career with someone that I don't even know? It was for the first time that I met him and to to further demonstrate my my my my my innocence in this involvement of or or of of a a drug bust. I had not even a a clue as to how much is the a consignment. If I have known that this is a a such a a big what what with with the little knowledge that I I have I mean I the approach would would have been different and I call warrant officer because h he was involved in other investigation or or or that were drugreated that is with all fairness and innocence.

[01:07:43]>> Let me ask you a last question perhaps.

[01:07:45]When when you say you had no intention of leaving the scene with those drugs in your bag uh before the the the scene was properly processed.

[01:07:58]We know that by that by the time even before Pakula arrived, you had already put the the the the bags onto your your baky. You say so in paragraph 20 of your statement. Um and then earlier on you also say you had already arrested the three people.

[01:08:20]Remember?

[01:08:20]>> That's correct.

[01:08:21]>> Okay. According to you, what was still left to be done at the scene once you've loaded the the bags onto your bucky and you've arrested the three people.

[01:08:34]>> H K9 unit. You were waiting for K9 >> to do what?

[01:08:40]>> To come and and further confirmed to to come and further confirm that this is a a real drugs. and they were coming and they did arrive.

[01:08:53]>> So you called So K9 was going to do that and not FSL. You you know there's a forensic science laboratory, right? No K9 the dog unit which also came they they came from H pritorial >> they were also at the scene left kennel Malule who >> so when they arrived you would have taken the bags back onto the the the the the on the ground was that kind of elaborate thought had >> like normally like how it was supposed to be done before because of earlier e elaborated that the the scene I take a punch that the scene was not properly managed.

[01:09:38]>> So you were waiting for K9 who else?

[01:09:40]>> K9 leftenant Malu from Pritoria DPI office was called by a a a younger brother of Pagula.

[01:09:52]He also came he arrived at the scene.

[01:09:55]>> Yeah but you didn't know he's coming.

[01:09:57]Remember, we're discussing you saying I wasn't going to leave with that consignment until the scene was properly processed. So, I'm asking you, what had you done?

[01:10:10]>> What steps did you take to in order to complete that process to make sure that the scene was going to be prop properly processed? Um, before you leave, what are the steps that you took >> before leaving? Yeah, >> that you you you took that would happen before you left with a consignment to properly process the scene. H the counting was going to be done on the presence of a photographer because I personally called the photographer through the phone of a a a boys's guys and the call taker requested me to give a she was a lady to give me to give her my my particulars like service number, contact number and give a brief of the the the background of the operation as to how it started and everything. So, commissioners with all fairness would I I don't know if I was still going to leave the scene with with with that bi open bi which cannot even drive 60.

[01:11:24]>> Yeah. Well, you were going to leave with it. You were you were blocked by the boys's subs motor vehicle as we see in the picture and other statements say you were in a hurry to leave. So the plan you didn't put them on the floor. You could have left these things on the floor then it would be believable that you you were waiting for other people to arrive. No, you don't. You put them on to you back up your van to the trailer to the to the container. You back it up so that these things are put in there and all of them on your own account. You had counted them. They're 23 bags. You even take a picture um to send to your to your to your superior. So you've now loaded them and you were going to take them somewhere.

[01:12:17]You were going to take them to Albertton. In fact, if if poisons hadn't arrived, >> you would have taken them to Albertton.

[01:12:25]That's what you told Pakula.

[01:12:27]>> Uh commissioners really I need I I need to I need to emphasize this uh so that everybody can be in the same picture or we we we we we are on the same page at no stage at no stage commissioners that I intended to leave the scene. Actually, I want to clarify something. There's a narrative h that was being h pushed that I was blocked by poison's buggy.

[01:13:10]If poison's spy when when they arrive, I was not even in the car. We were standing outside. when they come h I'm the one who approach them