This analysis brings much-needed intellectual rigor to interfaith dialogue by exposing the logical fallacies that often mask weak theological arguments. It serves as a sharp reminder that religious claims must be built on sound reasoning rather than just persuasive rhetoric.
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Why Should Anyone Become Muslim? | Livestream XIV追加:
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>> Get I am me.
Oh sh for you.
All right. Can you guys hear me? Put a one in the chat if you guys can hear me.
Put a one in the chat if you guys can hear me.
Appreciate that. Appreciate that. You know what's crazy?
Every time I start this live, there's always like some kind of weird technical difficulty that I experience.
Like, hand to God, bro. I be thinking I'm like I'm starting and that people can hear me and then it just it just doesn't work. So, you know, pray for me y'all. Maybe one day I'll get it maybe one day I will get it correct. But, uh it's not going to be today today. If you guys are just now coming in, make sure you guys hit that like button. Um, for those of you guys who are watching the playback, uh, if you don't like the stream, if you are one of the people who hate my streams, um, make sure that you hit the dislike button twice, not once, but twice. Okay. Uh, today we're going to be having a very interesting conversation. Let's go ahead and get this thing fired up.
Uh we're going to be having a really interesting conversation today. We're going to be asking um why should anybody become a Muslim?
That's what we're asking. Uh inquiring minds want to know, uh I hear tons of reasons why you should not be Christian.
I don't really ever hear uh it talked about on the flip side on the inverse as to why somebody should be Muslim because I think like the assumption here is okay well if Christianity is false then Islam must be true right I mean essentially like that's kind of like the argument indirectly right like obviously like they don't come out saying that logically it doesn't follow. Um, but I'm I'm actually honestly kind of like wanting to know like I'm I'm actually curious uh like what is the answer going to be to this? Like why should anybody become Muslim, you know? Um so that's what we're, you know, we're we're trying to figure out.
If you guys are on YouTube again, make sure you guys hit the like button. If you are on TikTok, let's get these likes up. Let's try to get to 25K as soon as possible. We're just going to be chilling tonight, having God willing, having some normal conversations with some normal individuals.
You know, maybe the first guest, you know, it's it's uh complimentary at this point, right? First guest will come up and just call me a a zinge and then just run away from the live. So, I'm I'm definitely expecting some of those. Um, but yeah, man. I'm just, you know, I'm I'm I'm wanting to kind of know, you know, and and inquiring minds are want to know, you know, should somebody choose Christianity over Islam or should somebody choose Islam over Christianity?
And what are the reasonings? Like, you know, why is that the case? Because the Muslims, they set up uh the hour tables and they say Jesus was a Muslim, you know. Okay.
uh worship one God, um Bibles corrupt, you know, just just like all kinds of stuff, right?
And um for me, it's like I don't know, man. I'm just like, okay, well, even if Christianity is false, right? Even if everything that they say about Christianity, you know, is true about it not being the one true religion and and da da da da, then I mean, what does that say? Like what? So now Christianity I mean so now Islam is is true. Christianity is false, you know. Uh it just it just doesn't make any sense, you know. Um Chase says, "Not sure why I don't get your notifications for when you go live." I don't know either. you're not the first person to say this for some reason on Tik Tok. Um I just I don't know like the algorithm just isn't doing its thing.
The same thing here with uh with YouTube. You know, some people get it, some people don't. So, you know, I'm not really here for the the the massive audience anyways. Even if I just have one good conversation, I'll I'll be okay. We're we're going to be live for a little bit tonight. um maybe for like the next hour, hour and a half. I mean, we'll see what happens. Um but inquiring minds are wanting to know where this particular conversation is going. Uh there was a topic I ran uh sometime last week and it was kind of like along the same thing. Um but it was just like from a different angle, right?
You know, the argument, you know, the Quran is perfectly preserved. Uh, I'm guessing like therefore like Islam must be true. I'm just like that's just fellacious.
You can perfectly preserve a lie.
It doesn't mean that the book is true.
And then they'll say, "Well, the Bible has contradictions." Okay.
What if I were to say, "Well, the Bible I think Avery brought this up yesterday.
I don't know if it was Avery or life, but they brought this up yesterday." And I thought it was a a really good it's a really good comment, right? Like they said um the Bible, let's say that the Bible uh really does have all of these is riddled with all these contradictions as you say.
Uh can you perfectly preserve a book with contradictions in it? Yeah. Okay.
Therefore, so just because you have a book that's perfectly preserved with contradictions, like it doesn't mean now that the religion is true. So, it's just like it's just so many facious type of of reasoning uh methods that we get when we have this conversation.
And uh I'm just I'm I'm just wanting to kind of like actually kind of get down to the bottom of it. Um, so, uh, again guys, if you're on YouTube, make sure you hit that like button. We've got almost, uh, 20 people in here so far.
So, uh, if you want to have the conversation.
Um, come on over to YouTube. I mean, come on over to Tik Tok. This is where the conversation will be happening.
Um, make sure you hit that like button. If you're on Tik Tok, tap the screen. Let's try to get to 25K.
We'll see what happens. if there would be anybody that's want that wants to come in and have this conversation. But um yeah, it's just it's so many different things even with the idea of like Jesus being a Muslim, right? We asked them to prove it.
And I mean, I think a lot of them have moved past this idea of, okay, well, Jesus prayed like a Muslim, therefore he's a Muslim, right? I mean, I would I would hope that they move past this, right? But you had this idea of, well, Jesus praying like a Muslim or Jesus doing X, Y, and Z, like a Muslim, therefore he's a Muslim.
And it's like, okay, well, I mean, I'm Orthodox and every day I pray with my head to the floor. Literally, like every single day I do that, but I'm not a Muslim. Hindus do that. Um, so many different religions do this. So, it's just like what I'm starting to realize and I don't know if it was life that said this because I was talking to him about this one time, right?
And um he said um you know like they they they can't really prove their religion without committing some type of fallacy.
Um and I had to like kind of like stop and think about it and I was just like man like you're right. like it seems like a lot of their reasoning revolves around some type of fallacy and it's typically the same types. It's typically like uh equivocation or it's typically like um cherrypicking or it's typically like uh you know like even when we talk about this idea of like the word Allah right?
Oh, well uh uh Christians call God Allah. So, you know, it's it's it's it's the same God.
And it's like, well, okay. Well, did you That's another fallacy. It's called the quantifier shift fallacy. I have a mother. You have a mother. But just because we use the same word to refer to our mother, doesn't therefore mean we have the same mother. Like, that's just fellacious. But this is the same thing that the Muslims do with the word Allah.
Okay. Well, Christians call their god Allah.
Uh, Muslims call their God Allah, therefore it's the same Allah, which is just crazy, but it's another fallacy.
Uh, Marco says circular. Yep. Circular reasoning as well. So, I mean, this is what we're wanting to get down to the bottom of today. Um, just wanted to have like a normal conversation about this. Um, Riley says, "Have you tried atheism?" Uh, no. Uh, before I became like a a Christian Christian, I guess you could say maybe I was like agnostic, maybe like agnostic atheist.
Um, but that was when I was like maybe 18, 19, you know, in that period. And then I, um, I I read the Bible and I read the Quran. That's actually where uh a lot of people ask me like am I Sudin, you know, am I Lebanese or like I get all kind of crazy stuff. I'm like, no, I'm just just a black guy from the US. Let's see.
Looks like we got somebody here. The truth, El Hawk.
Let's see what he brings to the conversation. Al Hawk, can you hear me?
What's going on?
>> Hey, are you a Muslim?
>> Sure is.
>> Okay. Okay.
>> Alhamdulillah.
>> Okay. Alhamdulillah. Okay. Let's uh let me ask you this, man.
Why should anybody be a Muslim? Let's start there.
>> Why should anybody be a Christian?
>> My friend, I'm asking you. Christianity could be false or Christian if if Christianity is false is Islam automatically true?
>> No, it's not. Islam is not based It's not true because it's based off of Christianity. It's true because it's a religion that God chose for us.
>> Thank you. So that's probably the answer you should have gave first. So forget about Christianity for right now. So being that you say that this is the religion that God gave humanity first, how does that make it true or how do you substantiate that that is the case? I guess that's a better question.
>> Well, it's the only religion. It's only one religion. It's Islam.
>> Okay. But I'm asking how do you know that to be the case?
>> Because I read the revelations and thought I sat down and told >> I appreciate that Rome. God bless you, bro. God bless. Um, okay. And where do you learn about this?
Where do you learn that this is the one true religion that God gave humanity?
>> The Quran.
>> Okay. Okay. Okay. So, how do you know that the Quran is true?
>> Cuz I believe it to be true. Cuz it resonates with me. It resonates with what I believe. It resonates with logic and reason.
>> Okay.
>> That's why.
>> Okay. What if somebody says that um atheism because we we had an atheist in here earlier. What if somebody says that atheism resonates with them and it resonates with logic and and reason?
Does that make it true?
>> No. To be to to to me be my way and to to you be yours. I don't care whatever resonates with you that's fine. I'm not trying to come between what nobody else believe. So then >> you ask me from my perspective, you know, why I'm Muslim. You know what I'm saying? I don't care if you Christian or whatever, that's that's on you, >> right? But what I'm asking you for is so if this is something that you're basing your whole life on. This is something you base you put your your soul in the hands of your God of Allah. You believe that Muhammad had this final revelation.
What I'm asking you is, okay, no problem. But what I'm asking you is if you have a reasoning as to why you believe it to be true, that's fellacious. You can't ground it outside of I just feel like it's true. Do you think that that's a Do you think that's safe? Don't you think that's kind of risky?
>> No, I can't because guess what? You know what I'm saying? It's your life and it's on each and every one of us to learn about God and nobody else can tell >> anybody else what resonates with them.
You know what I mean?
>> You got your own sp your soul. I got my own soul. So I can't tell you what resonate with you just like you can't tell me reate with me.
>> So really you don't have any good reason as to why you're a Muslim. You kind of just are.
>> Um you're telling me I don't have a good reason.
>> I want you to tell me I don't have a good reason.
>> Well well all of the reasons you gave are just feeling based. Oh, it doesn't satisfy you.
>> No, >> it doesn't satisfy you. Huh?
>> I don't think I don't think it satisfies.
>> You think I You think You think I'm You think I'm basing my uh my life and what I believe off of because it satisfy you or not? I don't care what you think.
>> I don't think it satisfies anybody but you. That's That's what I'm saying.
>> That's fine. That's what it's supposed to do, >> brother. Why are you getting so upset, man? Let's Let's have a normal conversation. Look, >> you asking dumb questions, bro. You talking about Oh, I don't believe, man.
Who cares what you believe?
>> Okay, let's do this. Um, >> yeah.
>> The a message that Muhammad came with where he said that he's the uh the last prophet or or or let's do this.
Let's let's let's let's do this. Um, >> hold on. First of all, who what are you what's your belief?
>> I'm a Christian. You don't believe that that >> Right. So, you don't believe that Jesus is the son of God, right?
No.
>> No. Right. Okay. You know that >> son in what sense? Son in what sense?
>> By him being the son of God, we mean that he is God.
>> Oh, no.
>> No, >> definitely not.
>> Do Do you know that your your God actually agrees with us that if Jesus actually is the son of God, then he is God and and must be worshiped?
You know that's a big boldface lie, right?
>> Can I show you from the Quran?
>> Yeah, please.
>> Okay.
All right. If you guys are on YouTube, you guys will be able to see this. Um, let me go ahead and pull up this verse in the >> Hey, bro. You know, the only person I worried about seeing this is God.
>> Just be truthful. Don't lie.
>> Well, no. I'm saying that because um there are people who want to see the verse as I read it and I >> forget the people. God is watching you and he's watching you live. Be careful.
>> No problem. Um all right. So this is chapter 43.
>> Mhm.
>> Verse 81. Okay. It says, "Say if the most gracious had a son uh then I will be or then I am the first of Allah's worshippers or I'm the first to worship him." It says, So it says that if God really did have a son, then I and that this is speaking of Muhammad, then I would be the first of those to worship him. So I know that the Quran says that Allah does not have a son. So I'm not disputing that he does.
I'm saying that the logic follows according to the Quran. So if God really did have a son, then he has to be worshiped as God. So the the logic follows. Do you understand what I'm saying?
>> I know what you're trying to say, man.
But it's not saying he has a son. He say if he has a son because you believe that he have one. That's why Allah is telling us in the Quran. You do know that Christianity was here before the revelation of the Quran came down.
Right? So you pagans. Well, I don't want I don't want to insult. I don't want to salt you. But you know what I'm saying?
Christians and other can insult me. It doesn't matter.
>> I'm not going to insult you, bro. I don't have to insult you. I'm just going to assault you with the truth.
>> Okay, no problem.
>> Before we go to Before we go to what you believe >> Can I finish what I'm saying?
>> Before we go to what you believe to be the truth, no problem. We'll get there.
Let's just stick on the verse for a second because remember, it's not about if it's true that Allah has a son. It's about well, if he does, then the reasoning follows that he must be worshiped. You said that it doesn't make any sense that if Jesus is the son of God, then he would be God. But according to Allah, he actually agrees with us.
Not that Jesus is the son of God, but that if he was, then he would be God. So I mean, can we start here? Can we at least agree that the verse says this and then I can possibly try to prove to you that Jesus is the son of God?
>> First of all, you have to let me speak.
Go ahead.
>> And give me time to speak whenever I'm responding and not cut me off. You see how I let you finish what you trying to say? No problem.
>> I don't need you to say go ahead. Just let me talk. Just be quiet.
>> Go ahead, my friend.
>> You know what I'm saying?
>> See, you're steady saying go ahead.
Like, come on, man. But anyway, >> like I said before, he's not saying he has a son. He's saying if he has a son.
It's in reference to you Christians who believe that God that Jesus is his son.
You know what I mean? That's what the way he's saying it. Like, you don't need to try to explain to me the Quran because you're not a Muslim, bro. You're not going to understand it. You're looking at it from a Christian perspective. You're never going to understand it. And if I explain it to you, you're still not going to believe me cuz you got fixed up in your mind how you want to look at things. No. Allah has no sons, daughters, none of that.
You know what I mean?
>> Okay.
>> But look, have you ever read the Quran?
You have read the Quran. I've read it twice completely through in English and in Arabic. Before we go to that though, here's a question. I'll let you speak.
Before we go to I let you I'll let you speak. Just relax.
>> So according to this verse, I know >> that according to the Quran, according to Islam, that Allah does not have a son. What I'm asking you is, can we at least agree on the premise that if God did have a son, that he would be worshiped as God?
Can we agree on that?
>> You there, brother?
>> Yeah, I'm here, bro. Let's move on, bro.
You We're going to be stuck here at the same place. We're not agreeing. So, let's just move on to something else.
>> Well, if you disagree. Well, if you disagree, then you're agreeing with >> I disagree, bro. I disagree. Move on to something else.
>> So, you disagree with Allah.
>> No, I disagree with you.
>> I'm not the one that said this. Allah said this.
And I just explained it to you. You're not listening. So just move on. Why don't you try to explain it to me one more time?
>> Allah is saying if in the in the context of who was already worshiping Jesus as a son or calling Jesus a son of God, which is you the Christians at that time.
Okay. So move on.
>> So if let's just let's stay here. So if God had a son, would he be worshiped as God?
>> You were worship him as God Christians.
>> That's not what I asked you. I'm asking if God had >> We're not going to get nowhere right there, bro. Like you stuck right there.
I'm not going to agree with you. You're not going to agree with me. Just move on.
>> Yeah. I I think it is best that I move on. Um this is why I'm asking this question, guys. Do you see why we're having this topic?
I I mean, I don't I I I don't understand.
If Christianity or if Islam is so true, why do you prove your religion with fallacies? Why do you prove your religion by not answering questions? Why do you prove your religion by gaslighting the audience? It's just it's it's absurd, bro. Like, it it really is.
It's actually quite crazy. Um, Larry, let's lit this dude up.
Yeah. Um, saved. It did look like he had some some anger issues, man. Um, sad, bro. Honestly, it it actually really is sad.
Unfortunately, man.
All right, guys. Muslims, Muslims, if you guys want to enjoy, uh, enjoy. I don't know how much you'll enjoy the conversation. Uh, if you guys want to join in the conversation, you guys can hit that request button. Uh, on Tik Tok, make sure you tap tap tap. On YouTube, if you're watching, uh, make sure you hit the like button. If you don't like the live, hit the dislike button twice.
Okay. Um, let's see if we can get some some normal conversations up here. But, I mean, like, that's a valid question, right guys? Like, am I, you know, not asking a valid question? I appreciate that, man, for uh sending me the uh the gift. Rome, was that you? If if that was you, Rome, I definitely appreciate that.
Whoa. On YouTube, I got a $50 super chat. I really appreciate that. From your favorite uh Arab showing love. Hit the like button. I appreciate that, man.
I really do. God bless you, bro. I really do appreciate that. Yeah, guys, if if you're on YouTube, uh make sure you make sure you guys hit the like button. Um, if you want to join in the conversation from YouTube, you got to come over here to Tik Tok because um, I want the people on Tik Tok to also be able to um, hear the conversation. So, what I'm going to do is I'm going to post the link and if I can get a mod to pin the link to the top here on uh, on YouTube, that'll be greatly appreciated. Sobriety and Christ says, "Random question. I mean, is this a good argument? Premise one, only the Most High makes a covenant for mankind. Premise two, Jesus makes a covenant uh with mankind. Conclusion, Jesus is the most high. I mean, logically it follows. Yeah. Um I mean, and then obviously like within the Bible, you only see that happening with God. Um, but what somebody would probably say is, uh, if they were a smart Muslim or whoever your interlocator is going to be, what they'd probably say something is like, okay, well, I understand that the logic of your syllogism follows. Um, but is it true? Right? So like for instance you can say something to the effect of um I don't know uh if Amin talks to a 100 Muslims in one hour then he will become Muslim.
Premise two am talks to 100 Muslims in an hour.
Conclusion am becomes Muslim.
logically that follows, right? There's nothing wrong with that syllogism in terms of like the way that it flows, but is it true?
So, um I would just say that if you're going to use it as an argument, which which it's a good argument, if you're going to use it as an argument, just make sure that you have the verses and everything um to uh back it up. Make sure that your argumentation where it's concerned is strong and things like that as well. Um Elijah Kenny $5 super chat on YouTube says uh he's used to getting the rise out of people and is mad that you're unbothered, insecure. We'll take the insults and persecution, but they can't simply disagree. Yeah, that's that's what I noticed, right? Like it's one of those things where it's just like I'm I'm learning. It's funny. I was talking to my um I was talking to my priest today about this and he was like you can't argue people into believing anything. You can only just like spread the truth. You can you know give them the gospel if you know if they're more you know philosophically or uh theologically inclined you can run through some arguments with them. But there is no such thing as mental ascent.
There's no such thing as mental ascent towards salvation at least for Christians is not maybe like um if like black Hebrew Israelism or some of these other religions uh really which is like a form ofnosticism but there's no there's no intellectual ascent. It's always going to be a heart issue for us as Christians. Um and that's that's that's that's what we're after. Um in the book of Isaiah it says come let us reason together. So that's what we're trying to do. So in Christ says, uh, this would be for Unitarians.
Yeah. Yep. Yep. You know, uh, that argument would work really well. Um, if you can prove to them or if you can get them to start to understand that Jesus is the messenger of the covenant. Um, and then from there you can take them to um, Judges chapter 2 verses like 1-4.
And it says, "Then the messenger of the covenant," which is Jesus, the pre-incarnate Christ, he says, "I made a covenant um with you when I brought you out of the land of Egypt." So, I'll let you do with that what you will.
I think I talked to this dude once before, so let's see how how fruitful this conversation will go. Uh G, I can't pronounce the rest of your name. Yo, >> what's going on?
>> Good, man. Um what's your title? It's Christianity or Islam. Of course, Islam, Christianity is illogical.
>> Okay. Here's a question that I have for you. Um, >> go ahead.
>> Because for instance, like you're going to say Christianity is illogical because of Trinity or because Jesus is God and whatever that I mean, >> okay, that's fine. But if Christianity is false, does that mean that Islam is true?
>> I have a theologism for that. Um the premise number one is there is at least one religion that's true.
>> Premise number two is if the religion is true is has to be monotheistic purely.
>> Okay.
>> Um premise number three is Islam is only one monotheistic religion. Conclusion.
Islam is the only true true religion.
>> All right. I'm I'm I'm going to attack one of your premises. You ready?
>> Go ahead. All right, I'm going to attack premises two that Islam is the only monotheistic religion. Judaism.
>> No, that's not premise number.
>> That was premise.
>> That's premise number three.
>> That's premise.
>> That's premise number two.
>> You only gave me two premises and then you gave me a conclusion.
>> I gave three three premises. Premises.
Let me repeat. I said there is at least Okay. Premise number one, there has to be at least one true religion. Premise number two, if a religion is true, it has to be purely monotheistic. Premise number three, Islam is the only purelyistic religion. Conclusion, Islam is the only true religion.
>> Okay. You didn't say that. You didn't break it up into three premises the first time, but that's okay. So, I'm attacking >> That's exactly what I did.
>> No problem. I'm attacking premises three, >> that Islam is the only monotheistic religion. You know, Jews exist, right?
>> I I know Jews exist.
>> Do they worship one God as a monotheistic religion as well? So purely monotheistic religion >> they're purely montheistic >> is a religion that a purely monotheistic religion is a religion in which there is a concept of purely just rel uh god that is the sole object of worship and by object of worship we mean three things we mean that's the only one that is to be invoked >> okay my friend >> that's the only one to be >> my friend the Jews do that the Jews do You're Can I Can I Can I finish or >> No, the Jews do that.
>> No, you don't want me to finish.
>> So, I'm attacking your third premise.
>> Yeah, but I'm >> I'm trying to show you how Jews are not.
So, just allow me to finish.
>> Go ahead, man.
>> All right. A purely monotheistic religion would not take the source of legislation from other than the supreme authority. That's first. A purely monotheistic religion would not first would have to justify its epistemology when it comes to its sources. You can claim that Judaism is a purely monetaristic religion. But then you would have to explain how the god that appeared to ma the Moses to Moses is different from the god that appeared to to Abraham according to even their own sources part of >> okay so thank you their own sources okay >> you would have to account for theology which they don't know exactly where they stay there let's let's stay there let's finish and the last point is >> let's stay there bro >> the last point is >> bro I'm not about to over talk you on my own stage let's Stay there. So, first of all, thank you. First of all, thank you for proving that the Trinity can be found in the Old Testament, proving that the Christians didn't just make the Trinity up. That's one. Second, I'm attacking your third premise because the Jews today believe themselves to be monotheistic. And in some in most respects, according to them, they would be. So, they still would follow the same rules that Islam follows. But here's a question for you.
>> According to Muslims, according It's on the same topic. According to Muslims, they say that the monotheistic God that they worship is the same God of the Jews. Do you believe that? Do you believe that Islam is a continuation of the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob?
>> I believe the Yes, I believe Islam, the same God of Islam is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. But what you you said two things that are very false. You said that I prove the trinity within the the the Old Testament. That is absolutely false. Is that nowhere to be found co-equal, co-eternal, the triune God, nowhere to be found. Three subjects are fully predicated or fully divine yet distinct. Nowhere to be found in the Old Testament. So that's a lie. Second thing is you said allow allow me to finish.
Allow me to finish. You said the Jews believe they are monotheistic.
Therefore, I have to accept their no absolutely not. This is not what I said.
I did not say because people believe they are monotistic that would be very stupid for me to allow me to finish.
>> That that was your >> that's not my I said I that's you're you're a liar. You're a liar. I never said that. My premise is that >> you know I remembered you from last time because the last time I >> I don't remember you though. That's the funny thing is I don't remember.
>> Say wahi. You never talked to me before.
>> I don't remember talking. You never talked to me.
>> I just said I don't remember.
>> I said I said say wahi you never talked to me.
I one I don't remember talking to you.
This is what I say. I'm stuttering. So, you know, now can I can I repeat what I was saying? So, >> so here's the question I'm asking you.
>> How do you prove >> If you don't want to talk to me, just say it.
>> How do you in in a minute? If you don't want to talk to me, say in a minute, I'm actually about to kick you cuz I really don't want to talk to you.
>> All right. How do you prove how do you prove that Islam is a continuation of the Abrahamic religion of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob? How would you prove that? Because the Jews say that they're monotheist.
>> So now you're running away from my theologism.
>> I'm I'm running away from your bad argument. The Jews say that they're monotheist. So what's the premise you rejected?
>> The Jews say that they're I already gave it to you. The Jews say that they're monotheist. Which one is it?
>> You say that monotheist. I just pulled up to you.
>> Are you going to keep overalking me? Are you afraid of my question?
>> My premise is Islam is the only politic religion.
>> Are you afraid of my question?
>> I think you're afraid of my question.
>> You're running away from the You're running away from the argument. Yes. I'm running away from you because you have bad arguments. So, are you afraid of my question or are you going to answer?
>> What's the premise you reject?
>> Are you going to answer my question or not?
>> Okay. So, now that you you run away, go ahead. Ask your question.
>> Thank you. So, how do you prove that you actually follow the same religion or that you're a continuation of the religion of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob?
Uh the first thing first first of all I have inherently within my own sources that's been said but I don't need to prove it to you anyways because my syogism is valid. Doesn't >> need to prove it and and and you you run away basically you run away from the syogism. You you think I say whoever claims to be monotheistic then they are monotheistic. No that's not that's not my claim. My claim was that Islam is the only monist purely monotheistic religion and I have proved that. Now I can prove to you also how Christianity is a travesty of a religion. Remember guys, remember chat? Remember chat at the beginning of the conversation? Remember chat at the beginning of the conversation? See, notice now he's over talking me because he's panicking.
Remember chat at the beginning of the conversation? I told him that if Christianity is false, is Islam automatically true? He said no. And then he tried to give me some halfbaked.
>> No, I I didn't say no. I said I haveism >> that I refuted in less than two minutes.
So here's what I'm going to ask. How did he So So here's what I'm going to ask you. How do you refute it?
>> I know you don't want to do it, >> but I'm asking you.
>> Okay. How do you refute it?
>> Are you going to answer my question?
>> How did you refute the Okay. How did you refute the letter?
>> I'm going to give you one more chance.
>> I don't care. How do you really How did you How did you refute?
>> All right, guys. He's He's He's done.
>> He's a runner. Bye-bye, runner. Keep running. Keep >> I I run very fast away from bad arguments.
>> Uh Chris, what's going on, brother? Let me invite this invite this uh good brother up. What's going on, man? Hey, Salam Ali, brother. What are you saying?
You choose you tonight?
>> Yeah, man. I'm just Look, bro. I'm chilling tonight, dude. I'm not about to sit here and and argue with with idiots tonight. I'm just I'm trying to have a normal conversation. So, uh that dude, I've spoken to him before. He actually is an idiot. Um but I thought maybe he had changed his ways.
>> Yeah, he's a complete idiot. Yep.
>> Yep. Uh on YouTube, sir. Clips a lot.
Uh, five gifted memberships. I appreciate that, brother. Your favorite Arab gave another 10 gifted memberships.
So, apparently if your name turns green on YouTube, it's because one of these fine brothers gifted you a membership.
Um, >> yeah.
>> Let me see. Uh, we got another 10 gifted memberships from your favorite Arab. I appreciate that, brother. Uh, super chat from Elijah Kenny. Monotheistic religions, Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Bahigh, Mandism, Drews, Rasafarianism, Zorastrianism, Sikism, Tenrio, Kaidalo, Attenism. You forgot Satanism. So, I guess according to him, Satanist uh would also be uh Ara uh on the truth. Uh all right, guys. Uh, if you're on YouTube, we got uh at least 50 people in here so far. Let's hit that uh that like button again. If you hate the stream, uh, and if you were uh as half baked in the brain as that last dude, hit the uh the dislike button twice.
Okay, if you're on uh Tik Tok, tap the screen. Let's try to get some normal conversations tonight. I'll probably be live maybe like for another hour or so, but I'm not gonna stay on here all night and scream at I'm just not >> Yeah, you are.
>> Yeah. Yeah, we we gonna have we going to get to crash.
>> You know, I haven't actually crashed out in a very long time. Um, praise God I haven't done that. So, >> I've been waiting for it.
>> That's funny, man. Uh, let's see if this guy connects. Dr. Cow, what's going on, man? Can you hear me?
>> Yeah, I hear you, brother. How are you?
>> I'm doing well. I'm doing well. Are you a Muslim?
>> No.
No. I have a doctorate in theology.
>> You're a what? I'm sorry.
>> I'm a Christian. I have a doctorate in theology. I'm a Christian. I'm a Christian. I'm a pastor.
>> Okay. Okay. That's what's up, man. Um, >> I just wanted to say hello, man. I just wanted to appreciate the work you do.
>> I actually have an honest question. How did you how did you learn um Arabic?
>> Um I grew up uh like when I got a little bit older, I ended up going to college.
I spent a lot a long time there in this um like refugee community. Uh and there were a lot of people there that spoke Arabic. And uh I really enjoyed my time there actually. Um had a lot of friends, very nice people. most of them like it was like 90% Muslim. Um I started reading the Quran. Uh and then my friend said, "Well, if you're reading it in English, you don't really understand it.
Uh you need to read it in Arabic." So I asked her to teach me Arabic. She taught me the alphabet and I started I just read the rest. I I kind of just took off after that and >> then I started learning the dialect and here we are.
>> How long did it take you, man? That's incredible.
>> Uh I'm still learning. Um, you know, it's it's when you're learning a language, it's not something uh that you you don't really ever become fluent in, you know, it just it takes time. But >> yeah, >> right. Right. Same way as English, right? There's still more to English. I understand, man. That's amazing, man.
God bless you. I appreciate the work you do, man.
>> I appreciate that.
>> Yes, brother.
>> Well, I'm going to go ahead and drop you down, bro. Trying to get some Muslims up here, but um thank you for the kind words of encouragement.
>> All right.
>> Sure. No problem, brother. Yes, sir.
All right, guys. Uh, let's try to get some Muslims up here. Let's try to get some, uh, normal conversations. I mean, I think it's possible, right? Right. You know, Chris said, "Nice glaze session."
Now, people ask me that question a lot, man. I get asked it like, "Are you Sudin? Are you Lebanese? are you? I'm just like I'm a black guy from from America. Like there's nothing special about me. Uh and my Arabic uh is kind of broken. Anyways, I don't have a really good accent, but it's enough for God to use it. Um all right, guys. Let's uh let's try to get some some people up here. Um if you're on TikTok and you want to enjoin, well, I keep saying enjoin. If you guys want to join in the conversation, uh, please come up, uh, and let's let's let's have a let's have a chat. Uh, I appreciate that, Peter, man, with the, uh, with the Galaxy. Sent that to Chris, you know, Chris getting them crazy.
>> Hey, I get some love over here on the mean channel. Thanks, Peter. God bless.
>> Yeah. So, we appreciate that, Peter. God bless. God bless. Uh, yeah, guys. like uh the the angle that I wanted to uh Oh, I didn't know that you sent me a Galaxy, Peter. I appreciate that, too, man. Thank you for sending me the Galaxy. Uh uh me and Peter be joking with each other all the time, man. Cool, dude. Um the the argument that I kind of wanted to take that guy down earlier though, I mean, I think it's really important. Like I don't I don't want us to like skip over it a little bit because uh if if he would have stopped manifesting and like if you notice they can't I'm not I don't want to say all of them but we see this a lot right on this app like I'm really and really what I'm just tired tonight like I just I don't feel like screaming at people but if you notice like they just they can't just have a normal convers like when they feel like they're just that they don't have an answer just they just start trying to overt talk you. They don't listen. They start screaming. And the questions that I like, Chris, are the questions that I ask hard to answer?
It's a genuine question.
>> Nope.
>> No. Yeah. I didn't think so either, but um I don't know what it is, man. Um I I don't know what it is. Frenchman, let's uh let's let this dude up.
>> Frenchman, you're on stage. How are you doing tonight, man?
>> Yeah. What's up, man?
>> I'm doing well. I'm doing well. Are you a uh are you a Muslim?
>> Yeah.
>> Okay. Alhamdulillah. Um here's a question that I have for you. I I've asked two people before you, you know, maybe we'll have a normal conversation.
Um, why should anybody become a Muslim?
Uh, it doesn't matter what background they have. I'm just curious from a Muslim perspective, why why should anybody convert to Islam?
>> Well, I mean, if listen, if you if you believe in God and you're trying to, you know, seek some sort of connection, I think it's it's it's the purest way to do so. I mean, Christianity at itself There's there listen there's no way you can be a Christian without lying to yourself after reading the Bible. That's >> you know what I mean. That's just a fact. It's it's not my opinion.
>> Right.
>> The um >> if if Christianity is false, is Islam true?
>> Well, listen, the thing is that um Christians themselves don't even know what Christianity is.
>> And why is that? I mean, well, are you Christian? Are you Muslim?
>> I'm Christian.
>> Okay. So, is Jesus God?
>> Well, we believe the Bible says he is, and I believe he is, but but here's the question, and and I'm going to go with this, okay? No, no problem.
>> Yeah.
>> I'm I'm I'm going to go with with this, okay? Just humor me for a second.
>> Suppose the Bible did say Jesus is God.
Do you believe that that would be a corruption >> of the true message?
>> No. But the the thing is that there's a message, right? That see this is the problem is that it's it's uh >> Chris, you remember when I asked you earlier, I said, "Do I ask hard questions?" And you said no.
>> So So I thought, >> yeah, that's pretty straightforward, >> right? It is. So So can I get a >> Can I get a straightforward? It wouldn't be a corruption. I don't know what what why that would be the statement. My my question is is Jesus God? Because >> why are you asking me a question when I asked you one? So So you said that it wouldn't be a corruption. So the true message >> see guys here we go.
>> Look my my friend I'm trying to have a normal convers. Can you just just humor me for a second? The true message according to you because remember I'm asking you why would anybody become a Muslim? Your first answer was, well, it's the true religion. Essentially, that's what I'm summarizing what you're saying, but that's what you said. It's the true religion. So, if there is a religion that teaches something that goes against the true religion, that would be a corruption of the original message, the true religion. Correct?
>> Yeah.
>> Okay. And you get the true message where according to you.
Well, like do you accept the Old Testament?
>> Is that where the true message is?
>> No, I'm I'm asking you as a Christian.
It could be to a Jew. It could be.
>> It could be, but it is it according to you, my friend. Where can I get the true message from?
>> I I believe there's parts in there that are factual.
>> Okay. But it's not fully right. Where where could I go to get the authentic true message?
>> Read the Quran.
>> The Okay. The >> You could read the Quran. And according to Muslims, this is just what I I'm just this is what I hear.
>> According to Muslims, >> the Quran has been preserved for,400 years. And it preserves the message all the way from Muhammad until today.
Correct.
>> Yeah. And to the for the most part.
Yeah.
>> Okay. Before I ask you another question, because I'm I'm charitable, I'm fair. Do you want to tell me what the message of the Quran is and then we can talk about it?
It's one God. Worship him. Obey him.
Follow his rules.
>> I had a feeling you would say that.
That's why I asked. I didn't think it would be long. Okay. So, here's the question I have for you. Suppose that it is true that the Quran has never been altered or changed or anything like that. You're you're you're going to say, "No, it hasn't." Okay, no problem. Um, can you perfectly preserve a lie?
>> Yeah, we can.
>> So, if you want to think it's a lie, that's fine, right? However, >> so so then so then >> the Bible itself, >> okay, >> is which you accept as 100% factual, right? I mean, you're not going to tell me that's not the real Bible.
>> I pick up the King James Bible.
>> Let's go to one of those things.
>> So So, so now we've established So before we move on, cuz we're going to go to the Bible next. Before we move on, can we at least agree that just because the Quran is perfectly preserved, just because it supposedly has this true message that's never been corrupted, >> doesn't mean that it's true.
>> Yeah. Well, that's common sense.
>> Okay. So now, so now we need to figure out whether or not it actually is true.
Now, you said something earlier that I thought was interesting.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. You you said something earlier at the beginning of the conversation, and now we're going to actually go to the Bible. Okay. In the Bible, and we're just going to look to see what's true. We're just we're just we're having a conversation, bro. I'm I'm actually just really tired tonight. And I don't feel like screaming and yelling.
So, let's let's, you know, let's let's just relax.
>> In Matthew chapter 14, this is a question I asked one of your Muslim brothers earlier, by the way. So, let's let's see if we can actually get somewhere with this because this I I believe that this is a true message. In Matthew 14:32, well, let's just start at 33. And those that were in the boat, they worshiped him. The himymn is Jesus, saying, "Truly, you are the son of God." Now, I know that the Quran says that Jesus is not the son of God. You believe that that is the Quran is the true message, but the Quran says Jesus is not the son of God. But I'm asking you, if they worshiped him because he's the son of God, is that wrong?
>> When you look at the scriptures, the previous scriptures, there are plenty of sons of God. Jesus is not the first one with that title. When I'm asking like like like the logic the reasoning like we can get to >> the son of god like the son of god in itself the title is obviously of somebody of high stat so I mean >> right so so should he be worshiped >> so should he be worshiped because he's the son of god >> no >> are you sure >> he shouldn't >> he shouldn't >> okay well let's go back to your original standard of the truth in the Quran And in chapter 43:81 it says, "If God had a son, I would be the first of his worshippers." So I'm not saying that Jesus is the son. Hold on. I'm not saying Jesus.
>> I already knew you were going to come with that. But now listen to my explanation >> is that >> you are talking about two different things >> because you are talk you you are referencing a actual son of God whereas in your scripture the son of god has been given to multiple prophets before.
>> No problem.
>> So it's not the same thing.
>> No problem.
>> Right. You can get to that when they are >> No problem.
>> Jesus says you also >> guys. Here we go. No problem. We can get to that in a minute. What I'm asking you though is the logic and the reasoning.
Does it follow? If God had a >> if God had a son, should he be worshiped as God?
>> Yes. Are we talking about in context of the actual what it says in your Bible or what you are referring to as the actual son of God? Like >> I'm reading I'm just I'm just reading what the Quran I'm following the logic that Allah lays down for you.
>> I didn't say that Jesus is the son of God. I'm just saying according according to the logic >> when you're asking me when you're asking me in Mark 15 when they say oh you're truly the son of God.
>> Do you understand what the word if means?
>> Okay.
Like I told you, you got to understand that there's two >> possibilities. Do you understand what the word if means?
>> Of course.
>> Okay.
>> But you are asking.
>> So if God had a >> in 15 when they are saying you are truly the son of God, my friend be I'm not saying it's true. We're getting there.
>> Oh, I know.
>> We're getting there.
>> That's what I'm Okay, we're we're going to get there. Let's just stay here for a second. If God had a son, if what we read in the Bible is true, if God had a son, >> guys, we can never get past this question. We can never get past this question. All you have to do is say yes.
Your your God. Your God said yes.
>> Brother, you keep referring to is >> if the Bible is true. Do you understand?
In your own Bible, many people have been called the son of God.
>> My friend, we will get there.
>> We will get there. I promise.
>> We can't get there.
>> I know we can't get there because you won't answer questions.
>> You refuse.
>> What are you talking about?
>> You refuse.
>> You're not You're not even >> Let's try this one more. Let's Let's try this one more time. If God had a son, >> would you worship him?
>> Okay, let's say I would. Okay. Thank you.
>> Okay. So now, how many >> would you worship him?
>> Okay. So now I'm going to give you an honest answer. You ready for it?
>> Yeah.
>> Okay. According to the Old Testament, the Jews were referred to as the sons of God because God specifically chose them as a people group to carry out and to fulfill his message and the prophecy of the Messiah.
>> So they are literally looking right at you. I'm not reading chat. I do this. I don't I don't use chat GPT.
I do this. So, so just so just relax.
>> According to the Old Testament, that's why the Jews are referred to as the sons of God. Us as Christians, those who are part of the new covenant are referred to as the sons of God according to Romans chapter 8 because we are adopted into the family. If you read Romans 8, it says, "Whereby we cry, aba, father." Aba means father. So if he's our father by adoption, that means we're his sons. by adoption. But Jesus is referred to as the begotten son of God, the monogamous Theos according to John chapter 1 because he shares the same essence with the father. Now here's the question for you. I answered your question. So let's let's talk about this. Here's a question for you.
In the Bible in Matthew 14, you said that the Bible when it says these things that is not the truth that the Quran is.
And that if is a big if according to you, according to the Quran, but the Quran confirms but but the Quran confirms the Bible.
>> Where does it where does it confirm the Bible in its entirety? Show me.
>> Yeah.
>> Where where does it mention the Bible, the books of Paul? Show me.
>> There's so many verses I can go to. Um >> so show me.
>> Let's start with the most popular one.
And I know that you would know this because I don't want to make this too difficult um for people who are following. Chapter 10 verse 94.
>> Okay. What does it say?
>> Okay. It says uh let me go ahead and put this on the screen.
So if you are in doubt and it's referring to Muhammad concerning that which we have revealed unto you uh written in the Torah and in the NGO that's in the the brackets. Then ask those who are reading the book before you.
>> Okay. Now you just put it you just put in half a half a sentence on your own and they're buddy even sure.
>> No I'm I'm literally I'm literally reading the translation. I mean, I can read the I just read you the Arabic, so it's not a problem for me.
>> Do you know Arabic?
>> I I I just read it. What do you think?
>> Do you know Arabic?
>> Yes. What do you think? I just read it.
What do you think?
>> It definitely was not good. I didn't even understand what you said.
>> Okay. Okay. So, why don't you read it for us in Arabic?
>> Go ahead.
>> You're the one reading it for.
>> No, no, no. You said you you you said my Arabic was bad.
>> No problem. If my Arabic is bad, that means that you have a good standard of what's good. So, go ahead and read it for me.
>> You're the one reading the question.
You're talking about 1094.
>> So, are you going to >> I'm reading the verse.
>> So, so, so are you going to So, are you going to read So, are you going to read the verse? So, are you going to are you going to read the verse in Arabic or must I move on?
>> I'm looking at it in English and Arabic.
The word in jail. Torah is not even in that verse.
>> You know, so >> you know there's a guy there's a guy named Captain Taria.
>> I don't know who that is.
>> I need you to I need you to This is the problem. I need you to listen. There's a guy named Captain Taria. And every time he gets in a debate, >> he always says listening is an art.
Listening is an art, my friend. Because I said that's actually in the brackets.
The Torah and the Injio. I said that part's in the brackets. You didn't hear me because you kept trying to overtalk me. So, let's take a step back.
>> Show me the translation that says that the website.
>> If you guys are on YouTube, you can see this. Put a one in the chat if what I just highlighted is in brackets. Put a one in the chat.
>> I can kind of see where this conversation is going. I don't I don't think we're going to get very far. Um but um we'll just uh yeah, thank you guys for putting a one in the chat.
Thanks. Um my friend, can we move on past this or or are we just going to keep having like a dick measuring contest here? Like let's actually have a conversation.
>> Are are are you willing to engage?
>> First, >> are you willing?
>> Ask me about >> Okay. Thank you.
>> I'm going to explain the verse to you.
>> Go ahead. Explain it to me. So first in the Arabic there the word Torah >> and in J it's not even in that verse.
>> We know this. So >> I'm the one that told you this.
>> How did you tell me this? You literally said in brackets this that it's not even in the verse. So now what was just revealed to the prophet at that time?
What was just revealed to the prophet at that time?
According to the Quran, it was the >> Quran that was revealed to Muhammad >> in that chapter. What was revealed to the prophet that he's told after this revelation that if you don't believe me, read, ask the people who have read the scriptures before you. So, what was revealed to him in this chapter?
>> I got to ask you an honest question, man.
You're not even going to answer.
>> Are you okay? Like are you like like maybe like I kind of just like >> ruffled you a little bit and you're not not not used to having these kind of conversations.
>> But can you track >> or are you like or are you a real person?
>> N94.
>> See guys, >> what94?
What was revealed prior to this?
>> All right, go down. Yeah, I'm not I'm not freaking doing this tonight, dude.
Guys, if you're on YouTube, make sure that you guys hit the like button. We've got almost 70 people here. Uh so, make sure that you guys hit that like button so we can get the the message out. We can get the algorithm uh pushing. Uh gone fishing.
Um let me see. He quoted Cap. Hey, people don't think I'd be watching these debates, bro. I'd be watching them. I be that I ain't going to lie you.
When Cat be saying that, it is kind of cold. Listening is an art. Listening is an art. All right, guys. I'll be on for a little bit longer, so maybe we'll get maybe one or two more guests. So, let's uh let's try to like have, you know, fruitful conversations tonight. Let me put let me put it on 2x speed.
Yeah, sometimes you got to put it on 2x.
I ain't going to hold you. Uh, Fatima, uh, I saw you requesting. I I accepted you. Okay. I I guess the like the the weird thing with with TikTok is like when you send when you accept people, man, it like it accepts them all at the same time sometimes.
Uh, what's your name? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Why did you kick him? Um, if you're gonna ask that question after hearing the conversation, then there's no reason for me to answer you.
You probably would have got kicked if you were up here. Uh, HVAC, I accepted you, bro. I don't know why it's not letting you up here. These these requests are weird, dude.
Uh, let me see. This guy Tang, that's a weird name for a dude. Um, let's let him up. Tang, what's going on, bro?
>> Yeah, I just want to remind you, bro.
Uh, slavery is over.
You don't need to worship your master's god. Yeah, >> you're free.
>> Are you a Muslim?
>> Think for yourself. Yeah. Think for yourself.
>> Are are you a Muslim?
>> Tang.
>> I'm from the Philippines. And then we have Muslims and Christians.
>> Tang. Yes. I'm asking you a question.
Are you a Muslim?
>> Sir, you are free to think for yourself.
>> Masa's God is no longer applicable to you. You are no longer a slave.
>> So you don't believe >> Do you understand?
>> So you don't believe in God?
>> Do you Do you understand what I said?
>> So you don't believe in God. Yes or no?
>> So you don't believe in God?
>> Do you understand what I said? Bro, you are free. You can worship whoever you want.
>> Yeah. And you're free to go back to the comments, guys. Is it me or maybe it's me?
It's It's kind of like, you know, like your first girlfriend in high school.
You were like, you know, eight or I'm sorry, eight eight in high school.
You're like 13 or 14 or something like that. you know, you get your first little girlfriend and uh I don't know, maybe like you're still kind of like whatever and uh she breaks up with you and then you call her and you're like, "Was it me or and she says, "It's not you, it's me." So, I feel like that's kind of like where I'm at right now, right? Like it is it you or is it me? I like I can't I can't figure out like what what's going on at this point, guys. Um sad, dude. It it just it it it it really is, bro.
Let me see what this guy It is what it is.
Okay, let's see if this dude connects. What's going on, bro?
What's up, big dog, man? What's up, man?
>> Hey, hey, hey. Are you a uh Are you a Muslim?
>> I'm a Muslim. I'm a Muslim, man.
>> Can I ask you a question?
>> Well, let me ask you a question first.
Why should anybody be a Muslim?
I'm just curious, >> man. You can be what you want, bro.
>> That's the That's the bottom. That's the bottom line.
>> But um if you asking me why I'm a Muslim, >> why are you Muslim?
>> Um I believe it's the the correct way, man.
The correct way of true uh monotheism.
>> Okay. I believe that the you know scientific and linguistic miracles of the Quran um and you got preserved is Allah which is crazy because I feel like the preservation of the Quran is the is a tool >> that um not many religions have.
>> Let's let's so yeah >> let's talk about those reasons you gave before we move on.
>> So you asked me a question right? But can I ask you can I ask you a question?
Well, when I ask you a question, typically how it works. You give me an answer and then I respond. That's how conversation works. So, let's >> So, you got a line of questioning, >> guys. This is another one of those situ.
Is it Is it you or is it me? Like, I I don't I don't know what's going on here.
>> Yeah. You playing You're doing a lot of like Yeah. Semantics. I I have a It's semantics me asking. So, it's pre-recorded when I ask you a question and you give me an answer.
But I also asked, "Can I ask you a question first?" Right? And you said, "Okay, but let me just ask you a question." That's what you said. You didn't say, "Let me ask you a lot of questions." You said, "Let me ask you a question." I answered your question.
Now, can I ask you a question, >> guys?
>> It's nothing to do. I just wanted to ask you a question.
>> Guys, watch this. I'm going to I'm I'm just >> It's a show. Like, guys, watch this.
Guys, look. Guys, you can't even speak to me. You engage.
>> Are you the only person that I'm talking to? Are you the only person? Are you the only one that's here or like >> I mean >> Oh, so you talk so the the chat has microphones. They speaking to you. You can hear them.
>> They have ears, bro. They can hear. You didn't know that?
>> But you talking to me though, but you talking to me?
>> You didn't know that they could also hear or or did you >> They can hear but you engaging. Or did you just find out today?
>> Are you engag Are you engaging with me or them? When you asked the question, you engag. I'm engaging with you.
>> Okay.
>> And they can also hear me engage with you. Did you know that, >> brother? You can't even engage with me yet. You want to multitask with the chat, bro? You falling all over the place. I asked you, can I ask you a question? And you backtrack. You like, "Nope, nope. I got a line of question."
And you going to answer all these questions. And then if you pass this test of Christianity, uh the the uh what's your name? Mm. The MN test. Then you can ask your question. That's that's how y'all roll. I know it. But you won't let me get off my question. And it's nothing to do with nothing. I just want to ask you a question.
>> G. George. Yeah, I know. It's It's strange. Hey guys, uh I'm going to let >> Where did you learn your Arabic? That's what I wanted to ask you.
>> I'm I'm going to let him ask his questions and then I'm going to show you why. I'm going to let He's not actually going to engage with the topic.
>> So, go ahead, ask your question.
>> Yeah.
I I said, "Where did you learn Arabic?
You where did you study Arabic yourself?"
Um, I learned it in America amongst other Muslims in a Muslim in a in a Muslim community, bro. Like, like what is this? ASL, age, sex, location, bro.
What does that have to do with the question that I'm asking you?
>> Oh, like I'm asking you who taught you.
So, you stumbling, you can't answer you.
Where you learning on Google Translate, man?
>> Get your ass out of here, man.
>> Yeah, bro. Go back to Grinder. I think that's where you belong. I think you belong on Grinder. Um, yeah. Um, all right, guys. Uh, let's, uh, AJ, what's going >> It is what it is.
>> It is what it is, man.
>> It is what it is, man.
>> You can't make this up, bro. How long have you been here? Have you been here this whole time, bro? Like >> I've been here the whole time, bro.
>> Is it bad or is it like or am I >> No, it's still, bro.
>> Bro, what the >> Bro, like Yeah, Terry, >> they all tripping off tonight.
>> Terry on YouTube says, "Zest, bro." Like, what the world, bro? Like, dude belong on Grinder. Like, where you learn Arabic at? Yeah. Where that at? I like, bro, get out of here, dude.
Insane.
Anyways, guys, uh I've been And what's crazy is I only been on here for like an hour and 15, bro. Like, I had Bro, I don't know how Avery and them do this for like four hours, bro.
>> Bro, they be dealing with nonsense, bro.
All day. I can't I I I Bro, I can't. The The only reason why I even come on live, bro, I'm I'm going just keep it aund with you is because people ask me to like they they literally ask me to.
They're like, "Hey, you know, you haven't I'm just like, okay." You know, and then people also like sometimes they they ask me to do lectures and stuff.
I'm just like, "Okay." You know, but uh I mean, if I got to be like a hund with you, I would not be doing this like this like like this dude is about to come up here. He's just coming up here, bro.
Just to see. Look at him. Look at he he It's >> he already getting ready.
>> He I'm one of those people he was talking about that asks him to go live.
>> He getting ready to make >> Get him, Logic.
I just I just think that he's just so valuable and I'm a big fan and >> he's black like me.
>> Now that he's here, guys, now that he's here, we really going to start getting the numb diggers. They really about coming in, bro.
>> Hey, they they they about to pull up right now. Pull up.
>> Let me turn I just turned my status on.
So, why are you doing it?
Seriously.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Let it begin.
>> HVAC, what's going on, man?
>> What's going on, bud?
>> Hey, you a Muslim, bro?
>> Alhamdulillah.
>> Alhamdulillah.
Okay, let's uh let's get into the the discussion, man. Why should anybody become Muslim?
>> Nobody should. Why? Why everybody should?
>> You don't believe everybody should be Muslim?
>> No, bro.
>> Why? Why should everybody be?
>> Well, let me ask you uh >> just want to let you know he was here before I joined the stage. So, >> he was here before you joined the stage.
That's that's that's a fair point.
That's a fair point. Let me ask you this question.
uh HVAC, uh why are you a Muslim? Let's let's start there. Since since it's not since since it's not necessary for everybody to be a Muslim, then I think it's only fair that I ask why are you a Muslim.
>> I think it's fair that you tell me why are you doing this? I know why I'm Muslim. I don't need to clarify for you as a human being. No one I'm not expecting you to clarify for me why you Christian perhaps or any other faith. So you don't have >> My question is why?
>> So you don't have a reason.
>> Why are you doing this? Why are you doing this?
>> Hey Avery, uh you ever see those uh those scary movies where the person get kidnapped, they throw him in the trunk >> and then be like, >> "Why are you doing this?
>> Why are you Bro, like we going to see.
You're not realistic. Are you I'm not realistic.
>> I'm asking you. I'm not realistic. I >> I responded to you. I responded to you.
Why should I clarify for you? It's it's perfect for me.
>> Okay. Why?
>> That's not good enough answer for you.
So, what do you got for me then? What's better?
>> HVAC. I just need to know now if if I need to drop you and move on.
>> Do Do I need to drop you?
>> You got nothing.
>> Yeah, >> you got nothing.
>> All right.
No problem, bro.
>> Enjoy Islam.
Uh, let's see.
these people, bro. Juan or I think that's your name. Juan Jawan Juan one X >> Juan. What's going on, bro?
>> Juan, you're on stage.
>> Oh, sorry. I need to drop. I got to go.
Thank you, guys.
Yeah.
This man Avery sound like Jeezy. Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Whatever happened to him?
>> He fell off, bro. He fell off.
Uh >> yo, what's that? God. Is this God logic?
Is he right here?
>> Oh my god, bro.
Yo, I got a question. He's like >> He might be a bot, bro.
>> I'm not a bot. I'm totally real. I got a question for God logic. He's like the guy.
>> Are you a Muslim, dude?
>> I don't know if Logic is Logic might be might He might be away, bro.
>> Yeah, Logic is unavailable. He just muted.
>> He's He's He's social distancing. He's social He's social distancing from people from He's social distancing from people with the vid.
>> Are you going to address my prompt here or are you just here to glaze? You here to like >> I'm not here to delay. I'm here to ask God logical question, bro.
>> Are you a Muslim?
>> But he's muted.
>> Do I submit to God? I feel like I submit to God. Yeah.
>> So, you're a Muslim?
>> I feel like I submit to God.
>> So, because you submit to God, you're a Muslim.
>> I haven't taken my shahada.
>> What What does it have to do with what I asked you, bro? Are you a Muslim or not?
>> That means that to be Muslim, you have to take a shahada.
>> Oh, okay. So, you're not a Muslim.
>> I'm just me. But God loves >> you just you. Oh. Hey guys, he just him. Okay.
>> All right, bro. Get out of here.
>> Yeah, bro. Scram. Scram.
Man, he just him.
Can't make this up, bro. Chef, what's going on, bro? You on stage?
>> Chef, can you hear me?
Yo, can you hear me?
>> You sound like you talking through a potato, bro. You on Bluetooth or something?
Chef.
>> Yo, can you hear me now?
>> You sound super far away, bro.
>> Oh, let me fix my headphones, >> please.
Guys, if you're on YouTube, make sure you hit the like button. We got almost 80 people here on YouTube. Again, if you hate the stream, if you hate me, if you hate my face, and you think my Arabic is trash, hit the dislike button, not once, but twice. Chef, can you hear me?
>> Yeah. What about now? Is it better?
>> It's a little bit better. Uh, are you the same chef from Bears Discord?
>> Yeah.
>> Okay. So, I already know what time you on. You're a Muslim, right? or you you you like a unarian or something like that?
>> Alhamdulillah.
>> Okay. So, you're a Muslim. All right.
So, why are you a Muslim?
>> It's the final revelation to from the creative universe. So, I have to follow it.
>> Okay. So, the final revelation means that it's in line with the Abrahamic prophets because it's a Abrahamic religion, right?
>> Correct.
>> Okay. I'm I'm I'm actually curious. Um, why do you follow a religion then with corrupted scriptures?
>> What do you mean by corrupted scriptures?
>> Well, you said that you follow the true Abrahamic religion that Islam is a continuation. It's an Abrahamic religion. What what scripture was given to those who were prophets of the Abrahamic religions like like Moses?
What what what scripture was given to him?
Moses was given the law.
>> The law.
>> Law. Law. L.
>> The law. Okay. What happened to that?
>> Uh, what do you mean? It was given to the children of Israel.
>> Yeah.
>> Followed it.
>> Yeah. What happened to >> the prophets came and they reaffirmed it?
>> No. But I'm saying what happened to it?
>> What do you mean? Like the actual tablets or are we >> Do we have it now?
humans. Us we don't have >> Okay. So I'm asking So what happened to it?
>> It's not it's not available to us humans.
>> Oh, so it's like I got to like I don't know like go to Red Box or something and and rent it like do do we have it now or or not, bro? Like Like bro, what are we doing?
>> No, no, no. We don't have it.
>> Okay. So what happened to it?
>> Uh it got lost in >> So it just got lost. came. Yeah, the Quran came and superseded it. So, there's not need for it anymore.
>> So, it didn't get corrupted.
>> Um, it depends what you mean by that.
So, if you mean, >> you know what I find really funny, bro?
If I didn't ask you this question, you be on this lie for the next 20 minutes trying to convince me that the Torah was corrupted. But then when I ask you this question, because you know where it goes now, all of a sudden it's not corrupted.
It's just lost. So now like it's like a pet dog that I have to now go put up wanted posters for to go find like you you guys are are insane. What happened to the uh Zabor that was given to Dawoud?
>> Um so it was only so these scriptures that are prior to the Quran um they're not available. They've been superseded by the Quran. You're asking me what happened like I don't know exactly.
>> So they weren't corrupted.
>> Yeah.
Um, so Allah's word can't be corrupted, right? But people can add things and claim that it is Allah's word.
>> So was it corrupted and >> so so was it corrupted?
>> No is not. No.
>> So was it so so the Torah, the Zor and the according to you are not corrupted.
>> Yeah, you cannot corrupt the law's word.
>> Thanks. Good talk.
Mashallah, humble, what's going on, man? Let me go ahead and let you up and you'll probably be the last person I talk to today.
What's going on, bro?
>> Salam. Um, so let me just let's start off from the last part of this conversation uh that I had with that last dude. Uh, people on YouTube, Zub uh that means Psalms according to the Quran. Um, would you follow a religion with corrupted scriptures?
No.
>> No. Okay.
The uh the Torah that was given to Moses, what happened to it, bro?
>> The Torah that was given to Moses >> Mhm. along with the inj that was um given to Jesus.
>> Allahh tells us in the Quran um in Bakar 275 he tells us that uh do you hope that they would believe for a while a party of them used to hear the words of Allah and then the story after they have understood it no knowingly bakar 279.
So woe to those who write the book with their hands and say this is from Allah then sell it for a small price 378. So indeed the >> humble humble I'm aware of the I'm aware of the ayat. So according to the Quran it's corrupted is what you're saying.
According to the Quran, there has been concealed verses and there has been some type of distortion in in in the in the um so the words of Allahh obviously can't be changed as in Allah won't change his words. If he says something, he's not going to go back on his word.
That that's what Allah's words can't be changed. But right now, you know, if I claim that the the Quran is the book of God and then you got David Wood ripping ripping the words of God humble, I'm I'm aware, bro. Look, is it's it's and this is why this I might do this topic again maybe tomorrow or something like that because it's it's pretty effective. No offense to you, but it's so funny. I go on these other Muslim lies. They will debate me till I'm blue in the face or till they're blue in the face trying to prove to me that the Bible is corrupt.
Then when I make them think about this and I flip it on them, all of a sudden now it's not corrupt.
It's it's lost. Like it's a missing cat or it's concealed. like it's and I was just not corrupt. So it's like bro like it's very simple humble I'm just >> my my brother I mean you know for I've been I'm 42 years old and been a Muslim all my life but being a deep thinker for maybe about five or six years and for five or six years I've asked nearly every so-called scholar and this and that where the hell is the injil if the new testament isn't the injil where the hell is it? That's what we asking >> that like you know what I mean? At the end of the day, if you don't believe the New Testament is the inje this is a book that was given to like where is it?
>> Okay. So like >> so it's not corrupted is what I'm asking bro is it corrupted or not >> bro like at the end of the day I honestly believe I because I can see what happens in my paradigm. I believe that the corruption would would be in the in the translation number one. The corruption will be in the he say number two. So not in the direct word word of scripture. So we believe is the direct word. Anything that came from besides scripture like um hadiths and stuff like that that's where the corruption shan can come through men but through scripture through the word of God. No.
So I reckon through translation through translation and through >> so is that a yes. Is that a is that a yes or like >> Okay. So do you when you say the in are we talking about like the the Bible? So do I believe that the new parts of the New Testament is the is the gospel of Jesus? Yes. But like things that speak about the crucifixion, things that speak about the resurrection, it wasn't um that wouldn't have been the gospel that was given to Jesus. Maybe that was uh you know revelation that was given to the to the to the apostles.
>> So it is corrupted then. So I I don't I think it's been added on to but the actual the words themsel so there there is obviously if it's been added on to then yes there's a form of corruption. Yes.
>> Okay. Thank you.
>> It answers your question.
>> Okay. So >> yes. Sorry. Sorry for the wrong answer.
Sorry.
>> So here's the thing. If you wouldn't follow a religion with corrupted scriptures, then Moses, Isa, Daw, all of these were Islamic prophets that were given Islamic scriptures that are in the line of the prophets that came prior. Yet those scriptures got corrupted in your religion, not in mine. So you you literally follow a religion that has corrupted scriptures.
Brother, the scriptures when they were revealed weren't revealed corrupted as as corrupted scriptures. It's like saying that you now follow a religion that Satan deceived his Lord and you followed that religion and because of that there's a flaw in the religion.
That doesn't that doesn't prove there's a flaw in the religion.
>> I'm not saying I'm not I'm not saying that the Quran is corrupted. I'm saying that the scriptures that came before the Quran that are still part of Islamic scripture, like it's still Islamic, bro.
It's the same God. So, in your religion, the scriptures that came before your prophet literally got corrupted. And I'm asking, well, if you guys as Muslims say I can't be a maybe not you, but the vast majority of Muslims say this, I can't be a Christian because you guys have corrupted scripture. Then what the hell is going on? Because in your religion, three out of four of your books are corrupted. At least in our religion, according to what you say, only like one of our books is corrupted.
>> My my bro, the thing is if I I honestly believe that, you know, the thing is like you you know how my beliefs are like I believe that Jesus has the spirit of God in him because Allah tells us in the Quran and you know what you can argue that that's the that's the idea that is throughout the gospels. I honestly believe and there hasn't been a trinitarian to be able to convince me that in the script in your scripture Jesus is God. So it's the understanding and again unitarians I I can relate to a unarian more than I can to a trinitarian because they have distinguished between God and Jesus you know like the thing is you know when I like convince me brother convince me because you're not doing a good like without any disrespect like you're not doing a good job at convincing I know you're not trying to convince me but I'm not convinced that your way is the way like I believe that you you you are on a wrong understanding of the scripture example example. I'll give you a scenario. So, you guys believe that there's three persons. God is free persons, one nature. Correct?
>> Um, give me one second. I'm pulling up something that I want you to see.
>> Just let me ask you a couple questions while you're doing that. Please, >> one second. 1 Corinthians chapter 1.
First, >> Brother Aman, just just off topic. Off topic. Brother Amon, I got to I got to say something. You did do me over. And honestly, you can put don't cry habibi or you can just say sorry because you done me over last time you promised me something and I came online for you and I didn't get what you promised.
>> So it's either you can put or you can apologize because >> are you talking about >> what did I not do?
>> We spoke during the day last that that day when I was at work and we made an appointment for 9 hours later. you come on James' on James' live or I'm going to speak about the song.
>> When I came on there, you already you were already in the middle of the conversation, but we still could have had it.
>> I know. I know.
>> I know. I know. I'm just saying, bro. I felt a bit let down, man. But all good.
>> Okay. Well, then I'll say this. Well, well, then I won't do the don't cry, habibi. I'll just apologize.
>> I'm sorry.
>> You're respect, my brother. Wa respect.
Thank you very much. I accept your apology. Thank you very much.
>> Thank you. Uh 1 Corinthians chapter 3:6, I planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the growth. So neither he who plants nor he who waters is anything, but God, but only God who gives the growth. So you said, I'm not doing a very good job of convincing you. It's not my job to convince you. That's God's job.
>> That's why I said it's not your job. I said that's why it's not your job. as in when I've read the scripture or when I've listened to anything that I've listened because I'm openminded my brother Amin and I believe you that you you thinks that I hope that you think that of me. Um I honestly don't believe that you know if you present me your case that Jesus is God in the scripture I'll be fair in my arguments like present to me the scripture and let's read this what you present and convince me like like I said I was I was very close to a Unitarian and I still am and when he speaks I can relate him more I can understand his I can understand where he comes from more than where you come from as a trinitarian.
>> I'll make it very easy for you then.
Okay. According to chapter 57:3 in the Quran, who is the first and the last?
>> I'm going to have to go to the verse or do you just want to tell me the verse?
>> Chapter 57 alid.
>> Oh, can you get it out?
>> One second. I'll get it out on my other phone. I got someone next to me. One sec. Get it out. What was it?
>> Chapter 57, verse three.
>> 57 number three.
You know what means? Yeah.
>> Mhm. Go ahead. That's that's what it means.
>> Yeah. No.
>> Yeah. I mean, do you want me to read it or or you said that you were going to >> Oh, okay. Okay. Okay. So, I'll look it up. Okay. So, 57:3.
>> Yeah.
>> He is the alpha.
>> He is the alpha and the omega, the apparent and the hidden. And he is aware of all things.
Man, who is that?
>> Allah.
>> Allah. Okay, I'm going to show you something. Do you have a Bible with you?
>> No, I don't have a Bible, but I know the verse you're going to take me to. Where?
Oh, okay. What What is it? Um, Jesus.
>> I'm not I'm not taking you to Revelation yet. I'm taking you to I'm taking you to Isaiah 44.
>> I'm going to read it for you. Okay.
>> Isaiah 44 verse 6. Now, remember in your worldview, you said that the Unitarian position made more sense to you as opposed to the Trinitarian position. And what I'm showing you is, well, the Unitarians use the same Bible that I use. And they're not going to be able to make sense of this. Isaiah 44:6, "Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel, and his Redeemer, the Lord of Hosts, I am the first and I am the last. Besides me there is no God. Who is this in the Old Testament speaking from the Unitarian position?
>> It would be the creator >> which is the father. Right.
>> Yes. The father.
>> Okay. So in in the Quran and in the Bible, >> can you get it out again? What was it?
Isaiah what? Sorry, I just want to say it in front of me. Just >> Isaiah Isaiah 44:6. Um, Elisa, I can't mod them right now because I'm on Streamyard, >> but um >> when I um watch the live bag, I'll mod them.
>> Um that one Bible hub. Yeah. Verse six. All right.
Go. This is what the Lord says. Israel, King and Redeemer of Almighty. I am the first. I am the last. So, you know how it says in brackets, this is the Lord says. Is that the is that um like brackets to letter explain it? Is that translation or is that scripture?
>> Uh now it says f says the Lord. What's the actual wording?
>> I don't I don't have any brackets in mine where it says thus says the Lord.
>> I'm on Bible I'm on Bible hub. Is it which there's a there's all these different Bibles. Which one should I go to?
>> They're just translations, but but just choose the >> You can go to ESV. You can go to Don't go to NIV because NIV is just an extremely watered down paraphrase.
>> Go to USB.
>> If you go to um the KJV or if you go to the ESV, then you should be >> King James.
>> Yeah, I mean King James King James Bible. All right.
Go back. Close that one.
All right. Okay. So yet now now here, oh Jacob, my servant and Israel whom I have chosen. Thus said the Lord that made thee. So who's talking to Jacob and and um Israel?
>> The Lord. That's what it says there.
Thus says the Lord.
>> Because it says now here, oh Jacob, my servant and Israel whom I have chosen.
Then it says, "Thus saith the Lord that made thee." So is it someone speaking on behalf of the Lord? I'm not being spiteful. Nothing. I'm being curious.
>> No, it's the Lord speaking. It It says, "Thus sayaith the Lord." So that's the Lord. And then continue reading.
>> Okay. That made thee and formed thee from the womb which will help thee. Fear not, O Jacob, my servant. Oh th J Jesseron >> whom I have chosen. For I will pour for I will pour water upon him that is thirsty and floods upon and ground dry and dry ground. I will pour my spirit upon the thy seed and my blessing upon fine offspring. And they shall spring as they they shall spring up as And they shall spring up as among the grass as willows by the water courses.
One shall say, "I am the Lord's," and another shall call himself by the name of Jacob, and another shall scribe with his hand unto the Lord, and surname himself by the name of Israel.
>> And then verse six, >> okay, breathing. Mhm.
>> is that thus saith the Lord the king of Israel and his redeemer the Lord of hosts. I am the first. I am the last and besides me there is no God.
>> Okay.
>> And who as Okay. Yeah.
>> Let's stop there. According to what we just read, the Lord in the Old Testament because you don't believe Jesus is God.
So forget about the trinitarian position. You said that the unitarian position makes more sense to you. Okay.
So here in the Old Testament, this would be the father, correct?
>> Yeah.
>> Okay. Now, we're going to go to Revelation, but we're not going to go to just one verse. I'm going to show you two verses. Okay. In Revelation chapter 1, let me just I'll leave that there.
Revelation 1 verse 17- 18 it says when I saw him I fell at his feet as though dead but he laid his right hand on me saying fear not I am the first and the last and the living one I died and >> what chapter was it? Revelation chapter one. It's it's in he says it like four times in Revelation by the way, but >> at the start of it. So the revelation of Jesus Christ which God gave up on my hand that >> Yeah. But it's it's verse 17 through 18.
I mean >> Okay. Good.
>> You could read, but just start at verse 17.
>> Yeah. Okay. Yeah. No, no, you go on. You read it. But I just want to follow with my eyes.
>> Verse 17. When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. But he laid his right hand on me, saying, "Fear not. I am the first and the last and the living one." Now, now notice what he says here.
He says, "I died, and behold, I am alive forever more. And I have the keys of death in Hades."
This can't be the angel because the angel didn't die. And this can't be the father because the father didn't die.
who according to the Bible died and then rose again from the dead.
>> Jesus.
>> Jesus. Okay. So, that's not even the most important part here. I'm just showing you the line of reasoning as to why the Unitarian position is not going to make sense based on what I'm getting ready to show you next. So, according to the Old Testament, the father identifies himself as the first and last. In the New Testament, Jesus identifies himself as the first and the last but distinct from the father because the father didn't die. And again, it can't be the angel because the angel didn't die. And we also know that according to the Quran, Allah is the first. And if you say you're the first and the last, you are God. That is a divine title.
Um, I'm very tired, so my Arabic is not very good right now. Now, here's what I here's here's what they would have to reconcile.
If you go to Revelation chapter 4, or maybe it's Revelation 5.
Yes. If you go to Revelation 5, >> it what chapter what what verse?
>> Revelation chapter 5. And I'm actually going to start I'll start at verse one, okay? So people don't think that I'm interpolating.
Then I saw in the right hand of him who was seated on the throne, a scroll written within and on the back, sealed with seven seals. And I saw a mighty angel proclaiming with a loud voice, "Who is worthy to open the scroll and break its seals?" And no one in heaven or on earth or under the earth was able to open the scroll or to look into it.
And I began to weep loudly because no one was found worthy to open the scroll or to look into it. And one of the elders said to me, "Weep no more.
Behold, the lion, the tribe of Judah, the root of David, has conquered so that he can open the scroll and its seven seals." Now, this is the most important part. humble.
And between the throne and the four living creatures and among the elders, I saw a lamb standing. Okay. The lamb according to the Bible is Jesus. Do you I mean I don't know how much you know about Christ, but do you at least agree with that?
>> Yeah, I agree that in the Bible the lamb >> is Jesus.
>> I haven't seen the context, but from just from um from just things I've heard. If you I'll just I'll just briefly share this with you so people don't think I'm making this up. John chapter 1 verse 29. This is John the Baptist speaking. The next day he saw Jesus coming towards him and said, "Behold the lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world." So it's this is Jesus. Okay. Back to Revelation.
>> So in Revelation, we're talking about the lamb the lamb in in heaven. But yeah.
>> Yeah. That's Yeah, that's I'm just I'm just showing you that the lamb throughout the Bible is identified as Jesus >> so that people don't think I'm making this up. Like the lamb is Jesus.
>> It did it did say the lamb in the world, but anyway, go on.
>> Yeah, but the lamb that takes away the sin of the the of the world, that's Jesus. He ascended into heaven. He's still the lamb. Like he's he's identified as the lamb >> as a metaphor.
>> Sure.
>> Yeah. Okay. Okay. Okay. Yeah.
>> And it says, "I saw a lamb standing as though it had been slain with seven horns and with seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God, sent out into all the earth." Now look what it says here in verse 7. And he went and took the scroll from the right hand of him who was seated on the throne.
Here's a question for you. Even in Islam, who sits on the arch?
Allah.
>> Allah. Okay. In Revelation 4, the one sitting on on on the throne is God.
Now, here's the question.
If God is identified as the first and the last and Jesus is identified as the first and the last but distinct from the father because Jesus says he's the one that died and rose again and he holds the keys of death and hades in his hand.
They're both identified as God. But in Revelation five, there's a distinction because if God is the one who sits on the throne, then who is taking the scroll from the one that sits on the throne? Who's taking the scroll from the one that sits on the throne? According to Revelation 5:7, >> the one that's telling us about what they've seen.
>> Yeah. Who takes the scroll from God in Revelation chapter 5?
>> Okay. So, and um >> read verse six and seven.
>> He came.
>> All right. So the land of Islam he and he came into the book of the home.
>> Okay. So he is not referring to the lamb. Is it?
>> It is. Look what it says here. It says, "And between the throne and the four living creatures and among the elders, I saw a lamb standing as though it had been slain with seven horns and with seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God sent out into all the earth." Now verse seven, and he went, he is the lamb, "and he went and took the scroll from the right hand of him who was seated on the throne." So, who took the scroll from the one seated on the throne?
>> The lamb. Right.
>> But why would it say he?
Yeah, but it's just linguistically would you say he for a lamb or now? Is it referring to the person?
Like is is it still a lamb or is it now a person?
>> Does God set?
>> It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter.
Okay. It doesn't matter. Yeah. And he came. Okay. So, I mean, I'm I'm I'm asking you a question, though. Does God sit on an actual throne?
>> Yes, >> he does.
>> Humble, if you leave the app, we can't hear you.
>> Yeah. Sorry, bro. I lost my screen. I lost my screen. It's okay.
>> Yeah. Sorry, my brother.
>> Okay. So, Does does go does God actually have buttocks? Does he have an actual butt? And does he sit on the actual throne like an actual throne?
>> Islamically we believe like he says he says he's like >> he rest but it doesn't mean that he actually has a body, right?
>> No, no, it doesn't mean that. But like when you when I say he sits on his throne like it's a king and it's his throne.
>> It just it just represents it maybe represents his glory or something like that. Right.
>> Yeah. I don't I don't take it literally.
Um you know I can accept that it's >> I would so so this is the point. So this is the point that I'm making.
>> Whenever it says that he's seated on a throne according to us I mean that's a very long but it doesn't mean he's literally seated on a literal throne.
But when it uses, okay, but when it uses the personal pronoun he, it's still referring to him. So he is doing these things, but the things that he's doing, he's not literally doing them, but he is still doing it. Correct.
>> Such as what are we talking about now?
The the the back of the lamb or >> I'm talking about the person seat on the the the father. The father doesn't have a literal body but things are being attributed to him because he is a person or because he is a he's God right he's cognizant he's okay >> so when it refers to Jesus as the lamb likewise Jesus is not a literal lamb okay this is being applied to Jes but Jesus is still a >> person okay what I'm showing you here is >> Jesus as the lamb is being identified as God in several places. I just gave you the easiest because even the Quran understands this.
The father, we don't have to argue that the father is also identified as God.
Yet there is a distinction because the son, the lamb, if you want to use that, is interact is is interacting with another person that is not himself. But they're both identified as God. Can we agree that the text shows this?
>> Yeah. But and I also agree that Jesus has the spirit of God in him. But again, like if Go on, you continue.
>> But is Jesus before but is but is Jesus in this passage being identified as God in in the previous passage? I'm sorry.
So if if Jesus has the spirit of God in him and he got identified as as God because he's got the spirit of God in him, it doesn't mean he's God the creator or it doesn't mean he's God the father.
>> I never said he's the father. I said he's a distinct person from the father.
This is the point that I'm trying to make. The the unitarian position doesn't make any sense. What they're going to do is >> they're going to say that Revelation 1 17-18 where Jesus is identified as the first and the last. They're going to say that that's something called agency.
That he is speaking on behalf of God, but he is not God himself or he can assume certain things that God says of himself but not actually be God.
>> Agency doesn't work here because you cannot for instance let's say I'm just I'm just explain this to you just very briefly. Um let's say that you were still married, right? And let's say that you're on a business trip cuz you're plum. You know, you're a plumber. You're on a business trip and I'm I'm in your city and you send me on your behalf to go somewhere with your wife. Okay?
Even though I represent you, I cannot come into your house and do the things if you know what I mean. I'm not trying to be crude, but I'm just trying to give you an example, >> right? I cannot do the things that a husband or that you as her husband do with her as your wife. I can't do that.
So likewise in this passage, agency does not account for you actually doing and applying to yourself the things that only God can apply to himself. You can come in the name of the Lord. You can say thus saith the Lord.
But you cannot say I am the Lord. That's not how that works. In this passage in Revelation 1, Jesus literally referred to himself as a name that only applies to God. He didn't say, "Hold on a second. I'm an agent." He said, "No, I am the first and the last." And I can show you examples like I asked my friend the Unitarian about that exact thing. I said, "How do you explain that Jesus is the first and the last?" He say, >> he said, >> he said, "He's the first and the last in the world."
>> Oh, so oh, so they're taking the position of the firstborn >> in the world. He goes, he's the first and last in the world. He's the king of the world. He's the he's the he's the lord of the world.
>> Okay. So, how many >> Sorry, go ahead. So his evidence would have been in what you just presented to me that you know how there's a distinct person in the other one. Okay. Now there's a distinct person. Why did God have to have if he's in if it's the one nature then and three persons when when the nature when the persons unite then the nature should overcome and it only be the one person. It can't be if it's one nature of God. When there's the two persons, the one nature will if it was the one God, there will only be one person acting in that in that same environment because why would God have two persons in the same room?
>> We can talk about the the logic of the Trinity. But first, we have to at least be honest with the text. In Revelation one, does it say that he's the first and the last of the world or does it just say that he's the first and the last?
>> It doesn't say he's the first and last of the world.
>> Where is he in fairness from?
>> In fairness, that was spoken in the world and and God says he's the first and the last in the heavens. So like, you know, there's a distinction.
>> How does But how does that The distinction is proving my point. If he were here, I would ask him, "Where does it say?" And because what he's doing is he's asking you or he's asking me, whoever he's talking to, to agree with his interpretation over mine. And what I'm saying is, why should I believe his interpretation when the text doesn't even say that? Where is he getting that from?
>> Yeah. But at the the the same time now, as a third person, I've listened to him and I've listened to you. The text doesn't say Jesus is God either. I know it says the first and the last, but it doesn't clearly say that he he's God. So you you I see your argument. I see his argument. And and you know, it's it's up to interpretation. Now, >> let's do this. I'm I'm going to show you something. So sometimes what people like to do is they like to say the plain reading of the text will let you know what's true. Okay, this is this is 1 Corinthians chapter 8:6.
I'm going to read it for you. Okay.
Well, I I'll start at verse 5.
For although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords, yet for us there is one God, the Father, for whom all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.
Here's a question for you.
According to the Bible, is Jesus Christ Lord?
>> According to what you just read? Yes.
>> Okay. So, that means the plain reading of the text, it says, hold on, hold on.
There's only it says there's only one Lord, Jesus Christ. So, if we take the plain reading of the text, >> then that means that the father is not Lord.
>> No, the father is God. But is but is the father lord >> in according to this god is above the lord >> but this is the point that I'm making humble the bible all over the place says that the father is lord of all but the plain reading of the text says that we only have one lord Jesus Christ. So if you just stay here in this verse I can make it seem like the father is not the lord. You see where I'm going with this?
Yeah. But but it clearly says start it again. Start it off from the start.
>> Yes.
>> Where it says God >> for although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth as indeed there are many is in quotations gods and many lords in quotations. Yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things, and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ.
>> Beautiful.
>> Through whom are all things and through whom we exist.
>> Go ahead.
>> Based on what I've just heard, nothing else, no self opinion, no self experiences, nothing. Just based on what you read, there is many lords. So there's many that claim they are lords.
>> Yes. And then God clearly says that there is only one true God and that's the father. And then he says out of all these so-called lords there is only one lord and that is Jesus.
>> You realize you just you you you realize that you just refuted yourself. Then these so-called lords, if there's only one lord >> and that one lord is identified as Jesus, then these other so-called lords would include the father. So is the father a so-called lord?
>> No. No. Because in this he's he's now disting he's he's differentiated between God. He's he's differentiated between God. He's differentiated between the the lords and he's differentiated between the third opt third third thing which was what >> exactly >> um there was another thing before the lords. What did he say? Fake uh >> gods.
>> Uh he said fake gods fake lords. So there's a difference between god and lord now >> right. So you're you're you're proving our point.
There's a distinction in God. But just because there's a distinction, hold on, just listen. Just because there's a distinction does not now mean that there's two gods. Because if that is the case, then I guess the Bible says that the father is a socalled Lord. But you and I both know that's just dumb.
>> Yeah. But the the the father in the the author of the Bible clearly states that Jesus is a begotten son and he labels him as the begotten son. So he gives him a title and a different person. So now he's clearly distinguish between him and and the begotten son.
>> Let me explain begotten to you as well.
>> Which which which helps me in what I'm saying now like there's a distinction between God and the Lord. There's God is God the father. He's the he's the superior and then the the Lord all no worries whether he's got the spirit of God in him or which I I accept already as a Muslim that Jesus has the spirit of God in him and and if if that the Messiah the the son of God as in not biological son I accept all of that but like >> no no problem is how do you get that he's no >> problem is God I'm going to explain it to you okay let's take the thing that you said about the begotten son Okay, begotten according to the Bible, it just means preeminent. It means above all else. Okay, in a particular category, it just means above, preeminent. Okay, the Bible does refer to Jesus as the begotten son. But it doesn't mean that Jesus is somehow the first creation of God or that he is the first person in the world or that he was No. And the reason we know this is because uh again that Greek word uh for begotten is um protocos. Okay, if you look it up just >> it's it's not a trust me, bro. But I'm just I'm kind of tired. It's like 12:30 at night, bro. But because I did promise to do this with you last time and we didn't get to it, >> I am making it right tonight. So I apologize for before and I'm making it correct now.
The Greek word for begotten is uh I'm sorry for firstborn is protocos which just means preeminent. How we know this to be the case? If you go to Psalm 89, you go to verse 27, this is speaking of David and it says, "I will make him the firstborn, the highest of the kings of the earth."
Now, if we take this word literal, firstborn, in the same way that they try to juxtapose it with begotten, we run into a problem. Because did you know that David was Jesse's last born son?
He wasn't the firstborn, >> right?
>> I think it was um Ilad was the firstborn.
Um, David is the last of Jesse's sons, yet he's referred to as the firstborn.
So, how does this make sense? Well, if you just read it, it says, "And I will make him the firstborn, the highest of the kings of the earth."
So, he is preeminent over all the kings of the earth. That's what that means.
It's the same Greek word in in the Septuagent prototoh prototoon.
And I'm going to give you one last verse. I know I'm saying a lot, but you'll just have to watch the replay. in Revelation.
>> In Revelation chapter I think it's let me see.
>> Yeah. Revelation chapter 1 verse 4-5.
Um I'll just start at verse 5. And from Jesus Christ the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead and what?
Ruler of kings on earth.
So Jesus is identified as the firstborn not because he's the first of God's creation, not because he is the first on earth to be called the first and the last, >> but because he is preeminent over all kings and everyone else on earth.
>> How you doing?
>> Oh, AJ, you're humble. If you're requesting, bro, I mean, if you're um if you're still here, we can't hear you if you're off.
>> No, sorry, bro. I'm still here. Yeah, just my screen locked. Sorry. Sorry. I just got a locked every 10 minutes if I don't press something.
>> Okay.
>> Sorry.
>> Um Yeah. So, >> I heard everything. I was listening the whole time. Yeah.
>> So, I mean, there's so many answers to this stuff that I just don't think that the Unitarian position accounts for properly.
Um when I >> the thing is I mean I tried to ask you a question before but the question that I was going to ask you is you believe that in the beginning the there was God and with God was was was the word and the word was God and that that was Jesus.
Yeah. So in the beginning there was one person one nature. Correct or no?
For us, God exists as one being, three persons. So the nature is one because there's only one I'm I'm going to explain it to you.
The nature only one thing in all of existence can have that nature which is God. No one else can have the nature of God. Do you agree?
>> 1 million%.
>> Okay. So the father, the son, and the holy spirit share that same one nature.
However, >> they exist as three persons. We don't mean persons as you know, I'm here, you're there, and then AJ is up there.
>> So go ahead and and and ask your next question.
>> What do you mean by free person? So like in the beginning God was in heaven above his throne with Jesus another person and the Holy Spirit another person but all one nature. Is that what you're saying?
>> Yes. By person we mean um different body.
>> No like a um distinction in a uh underlying reality. I guess I'm I'm probably not saying like the most accurate. I'm I'm be honest with you.
I'm just I'm kind of tired. But when we mean person, >> this is a very important question. I don't want you to answer it. No, it's not going to be what I'm saying is it's not going to be as super extremely theologically robust, but I can answer you. When we say person, we don't mean like a physical body. We just mean u like a some type of underlying reality.
And that exists within the one being of God. there's a distinction. So for instance, if God exists outside of space, time, and matter, which um you know what, let me stop doing this and let me actually cuz this is important. Forgive me. I shouldn't be making any excuses.
Let me get up. Um okay. Do you believe that God exists outside of space and time? Do you believe he exists outside of that? Of course.
>> Okay. If God exists outside of space, which is like, you know, you know, I'm over here and then like, you know, I've got this box of Kleenexes over here, you know, like these are things that exist in space as a matter. So, there's a distinction like there's a separation between me and that box of Kleenexes or something. Well, as human beings, I'm a person, you're a person. We are separated by space. We're also separated by time and all of these different things. But in this particular situation, we're separated by space. Okay. Can we agree on that?
>> Yep.
>> You and me. Okay. But if God exists outside of that, if he exists outside of space and time, how can there be a separation if he exists outside? Where where could you put the persons if they exist outside of the space to put them in?
Wherever he exists, he wherever he exists.
>> But you just agreed with me that he exists outside of space.
>> So if he exists outside of space, >> then that means that he can't be put in a physical location to be separated.
>> Okay. So, so if that's the case, then why would there be need a need of the free persons? I can see I can see God.
And why are you limiting him to the to the free? Let's say there's there's other other worlds out there with with other other civilizations and you know maybe he's got a lord for every single world. Why do you limit it to free?
>> That's a different question.
>> Why why are you limiting God?
>> No, but that's limiting God like that that's a contra like you can't limit it to free. I can see that God humble.
Humble. We can get there. I promise.
Just just walk with me for a second. So let's start here. We did space. So if God exists outside of space, he can't be separated by space because he exists outside of it.
>> So if it is true, I'm not saying it is, I'm just saying just walk with me. If it is true that God exists outside of space and if it's true that he exists as three distinct persons existing outside of space he can't be separated by space because he exists outside of it. So in Christian theology we call this paracaresis.
The doctrine of paracaresis is what we call a mutual indwelling of the father, the son, and the holy spirit without them mixing like some type of co-polution or something like that. And the reason we say that is because how else are we going to explain it? If it's true that God exists outside of space and you can't place the persons in a physical location, then they have to mutually indwell while still being distinct. Now, I'm not saying you agree with it because I can explain the distinction and then we can go on to why they must exist as three persons. I promise. Okay?
But can we at least just agree that if what I'm saying is true that it logically follows that if he exists outside of space then if he really is distinct he can't be separated by space if he exists outside of it.
>> Yeah. But that why we why are we trying to break up God's nature? His nature is one. So the persons are are created when when when needed.
I promise we'll get to that. But I but I have to explain this first.
>> Okay.
>> So, God can't be split. God can God can't be split. It can't. Yeah. I I get where you're coming from, but I don't see why there has to be the three persons. What if it's just the one nature?
>> Okay. Okay. I'll give you the short answer and then I'll explain it to you.
The reason why is because if God exists and you guys call them attributes or seat if God exists and he has something called bear the image. I don't know if I'm pretty sure you know bear the I think you've talked to him before. He runs this argument a lot.
>> Um I haven't ran it in a long time so forgive me if if I'm a little rusty with it.
>> Um but if you really want to get a better understanding just go talk to bear in the morning. He'll be live in literally like 6 hours. So, you can talk to him and he'll run this through you perfectly. Okay? But in our Bible, it says that God is love. Okay?
If God is love, then how can he exhibit this attribute of love if he has no one to love? Who is he loving?
Bro, the thing is if he's love, what do we have to assume he needs to love? If he's love itself, >> the reason why is because then the then it becomes a false attribute >> because you believe that your god is which means the most loving. So, so if I was like just the example to God is no comparison to us, but like if you were um in the mountains and didn't have children and didn't have any pets and nothing, but it doesn't mean you can't love just because you you secluded yourself.
>> But but but do you see why can't you but you think because of his love he created everything? Wouldn't you wouldn't that be like evidence of his love?
>> Well, then that means that your God is contingent. That means that your God changes because then that means that he went from a state of not loving and then he needed to create something in order to actually exhibit that love. That means he went from a state of not loving to loving. That's a change.
>> No, for he he because he is love he created.
And who who's to say he didn't? How did he love how did he love before creation?
And the the thing is before creation >> humble did he love before okay who >> yes who >> that there's that we know that creation earth and that and the humans and that but there was before that there was angels and there was uh there was there would have been >> angels are created angels are created I said before creation >> so before creation when it was just him >> yes who was he loving >> just Because that that's his attribute and and and this thing is and this is why I said and this is why I said you had to this is why I said you had to walk with me before we got to this. But you wanted to go with me. How do we know? Walk with me. How do we know? Just because he hasn't told us he he created himself a dog and he's got he's had a dog the whole time.
>> Humble. What are we doing here, man?
>> Just because No, I'm serious. Like you're asking me who does he love?
You're asking me is a dog creation is a dog creation.
>> So, so, so you're saying he didn't create love?
He was always love because he created >> humble is a dog created things.
>> Yes.
>> Yes.
>> Okay. So, if Allah is the most loving, then who was he loving before creation?
That's what I'm asking.
Bro, brother Bear, I did speak to Brother Bear and he asked me this very question and then I answered it. I said he loves himself and then he he he got rid of me. But I honestly wasn't being the smartest. Like >> do you know why he love himself?
>> Do be do God's a narcissist or something like that?
>> Yes. And the reason why is because is loving yourself >> better or or or less than loving another?
Bro, bro, honestly, you got to love yourself before you love anyone else.
Don't you think in reality?
>> This is why he kicked you. This is why he kicked you. Because you and I both know you, you and I both know that selfish love is not going to be more perfect. Cuz remember, God is perfect.
Is not going to be more perfect.
>> I'm not talking about selfish love. When I say love yourself, not in a selfish way. Love yourself. When you love yourself, that means you're doing the right thing by yourself. And then you you're you're healthy enough. you're you're good enough to love others, bro.
You've had ups and downs in life. And when you're not loving yourself, >> I got you. You asked the question. I gave you the answer. Now, let's go back to the other part of what I was trying to explain to you. So, we've already got past the whole space thing.
>> Time.
>> Yeah.
>> You and I are separated by time. You're older than me. Okay. So, that means that you were here before me, correct?
>> No.
>> Okay.
God exists outside of time.
So if it is true that he does exist as father, son, holy spirit and he exists outside of time, that means that there can be no separation there either.
Because for as long as the father has existed, the son has existed. And the reason we know this to be the case is because how can you eternally be a father without eternally having a son.
So there's no separation there either.
And the last thing is matter. God exists outside of space, time, and matter.
But in the Bible, John 4:4, it says that God is spirit and those who worship him must worship him in spirit and truth.
When we say God is spirit, we just mean that God is immaterial. He didn't always assume a flesh. He didn't always assume a flesh. Say it one more time. He didn't always assume a flesh. He existed as father, son, holy spirit, as the eternal God, immaterial.
So if God exists outside of matter, he can't be separated that way either. So this is what we call again paracares. So then we move into the idea of why must he exist as three or I guess a better question is why must he be multi-personal and then that's why we went into the whole love thing. If you don't agree with the love thing, I'm not going to beat it over the head. You can just talk >> if he doesn't exist.
>> If he if he didn't always exist as flesh. So what did he exist as?
>> Spirit. The Bible says God is spirit which just which just means he's immaterial.
>> And then why is he now in flesh in heaven with the father as a separate?
Why is that changed?
>> That's a great question.
>> Why isn't he back into why isn't he back into the original state?
>> He assumed flesh for the salvation of us. In the beginning, um, when Adam and Eve sinned, I know you guys don't believe in this. You You kind of do, but not the way that we do, I guess, if I'm being fair.
In the beginning, Adam and Eve sinned.
And I'm pretty sure you've heard the story. It corrupted all of human nature.
Because of what they did, the whole world was thrown into chaos. But it was but it's because of what humans did. And our human nature's were uh were corrupted. this I'm just I'm giving you like the not going to get too deep but essentially we were corrupted because of what Adam and Eve did. So what God did was he assumed a human nature so that he can heal it. So for instance if you read um and you should read this you should read um on the incarnation by somebody named Athanasius.
Athanasius makes an example. He says that um and and I'll ask you the same example. Let's say that you have a picture of the Mona Lisa and let's say it's perfect and then somebody spills paint on the Mona Lisa, right? Are you going to try to erase the paint or are you going to redraw the picture?
>> What do you think?
>> Try to erase the paint. You're going to try to erase the paint.
>> Yeah.
>> Okay. That's probably going to ruin the picture even more, >> bro. I'm at work. I swear to God. I swear to God. I mean, today I'm at work and I've got some paint. I got some paint on some pipes that I've done and it's either I got to throw the pipes out and start again or I'm trying to clean the pipes. And I've done everything today to clean these bloody pipes.
the exact scenario that you just gave me.
>> Notice what you just said.
>> Notice what you just But notice what you you said. You said I've done everything to meaning that it's harder to do is what I'm saying.
>> Very hard. I probably would have I probably should have just replaced them, >> but now I've gone so far into trying to clean them >> that it's like >> Yeah. Wasted on bloody >> It would have just been better if you would have just recreated it.
>> Yeah. Replaced it.
>> Replace I should have done that. That's what Christ did instead of like trying to do all of this try to fix the h actually just assumed the nature he just c he assumed that nature and by doing that he represented us did it perfectly and he I I'll I'll show you this verse this is um I'm I'm orthodox by the way so we look at this verse a little different than the >> how you said he assumed he assumed the nature before he assumed the nature. You're you're saying that >> how else would he >> still exist?
>> How else would he heal it if he didn't assume it?
>> Okay. So, so God as in was one nature and then he became what? Two persons, one nature by assuming the nature. Yeah.
>> Not two persons. It's one person that has two natures. I'm I'm I'm I'm going to read this verse to you. This is Isaiah 53.
>> Okay.
Um, now just fair warning I am orthodox.
So we look at this >> I don't know what that means.
>> So that's another com and and we can have that conversation. I promise maybe not tomorrow. I'm not going to promise anything. So what you guys say inshallah >> but but we can have that conversation but to to be fair to my Protestant friends um they don't look at this too differently. Right. But it's the same concept. Okay? I just want to show this to you. I just gave you that disclaimer because we as Christians, we don't lie to people. We're not saying that there aren't conflicting um opinions on particular things. But you as a person who are who is inquiring into what is true, you have to do the hard work and actually research and see, okay, well, who's correct on this? But even in this, we don't disagree really on the surface, but we it's it's the same thing. But I just want to read this to you so you understand. Okay, this is Isaiah 53. I'm going to read verse four. Surely, this is talking about Jesus. Surely, and this, by the way, this was written like 600 years or this is written a long time before Christ even appeared. Surely, he has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows. Yet we esteemed him stricken, smitten by God, and afflicted. But he was pierced for our transgressions. He was crushed for our iniquities.
Upon him was a chastisement that brought us peace. Now, this is the part that's important. And with his wounds, we are healed.
Well, what's healed?
The corrupted nature.
That's why he assumed it.
He assumed the nature took that that punishment in that aspect to heal the nature that we have.
And by him assuming that human nature, he fixed what we destroyed. He repainted the picture. He he made a new picture.
And this is why it says that Jesus is the firstborn amongst the dead. Of course, people died before Christ died in the flesh. We agree with that. That's not a problem. But when it says that, it means because the Bible says just as he is, so shall we be. In Galatians, it says that he is the first fruits from among the dead. Well, how is that going to be when all of those hear his voice?
We will rise from our graves and because he was the first to do this to fix that nature, we will be like him with a glorified body. Our natures will be fixed and it will be turned back to the state it was originally. However, right now we're still in this corrupted flesh.
We still have to renew our mind. But because Christ did it first and we're in Christ on yakiyama on the day of resurrection, we will be like him in our glorified bodies. This is why I don't know if it was you I was talking to. This is why yayyama the uh day of of resurrection or judgment day makes no sense in Islam because if Christ was not crucified and was not resurrected to heal that nature, why in the hell are people being resurrected in Islam?
The previous scriptures taught that the resurrection was so that we would be that first fruits. We will get our glorified bodies from the resurrection.
Christ is the first the the the firstborn from among the dead. We'll be like him. But in Islam, if Christ didn't die, then what are you being resurrected for? And and in fact, when he did what he did according to Christianity, he did it for all of human all of mankind. That the gift is there. You have to take it by believing in him. But the problem is if you notice in both of our religions, everyone is resurrected.
Not even the people that believe in Christ are resurrected. And the people who don't believe in Christ is resurrected. But here's the difference.
The people who are found in Christ, we receive our glorified bodies, our healed human nature. The people who are not found in Christ that reject him, they're resurrected because Christ died for for everyone. For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. So that human nature, he died for all of the people that had that nature. So you're resurrected, but the problem is you're not healed.
So if you're if if you're not found in Christ because of what he did, you will be resurrected and judged, but you won't be healed. So this is what we believe hell is. Hell, in in the Orthodox view, hell is being in the presence of God, but not having a a healed nature to actually accept him. You can't be in his presence because your nature has not been healed.
So what you perceive or what we would understand to be the love of God because your nature is not healed, you will interpret as the wrath of God because you'll hate him. Your nature is not healed. So when you're resurrected in this in this still corrupted human nature, you're not going to be able to repent.
You're not going to be able to love.
Whatever addictions you had, you're still going to have. Whatever funky thinking you had, you're still going to have. Why? Because you didn't receive the gift that he gave you. You weren't found in him. So, he died for everyone, but not everyone received a gift because they rejected it. I know I gave you a lot of information, man. But, um, this is Christian theology 101. Okay? So, I know and I apologize that I didn't do it that day. It was I was very tired that morning when I woke up the day and then James was already talking to you.
But I'm staying up with you because I do care about you. I think you're a good guy. I really do. I think you are searching for the truth. You're very close, but God is not getting us harvested yet.
So just in in all of this, let's just say that God hypothetically didn't create the world and didn't create humans and didn't create and the the original sin didn't happen.
>> Mhm.
>> Right.
>> Yeah.
>> Um would there would you're saying there would still be the free persons and one nature regardless.
>> Yeah. Because that's how God revealed himself. And then I also gave you a logical reason but but Yes. Yes.
>> No. I just wanted so regardless that that's that's the that's the that's the nature of God.
>> Well, >> that's the that's the monopic version of of God that you you you guys believe.
>> Do you understand why we >> So I I'll I'll explain this to you.
Okay.
>> But I mean like I can accept a multi multip multiple person. Um, I can accept God could be as many as he wanted and when he wanted and and when there's a necessity for it, you know, like go God's going to be a calculative God.
He's not going to create something and then, you know, like you said, he's he's in his space and because he can't enter our space. He then needed to to create a a a an an or become then multiple person to come into our space. I can accept that you know but but then you know like then in the other space why would there need to be you know what I mean like that that's just that part there >> I can explain that to you >> so when we say the nature of God and this is I'm getting into theology because you asked for it okay if you actually want to like get deep into this if you go to my YouTube channel and this is free like I'm not this is why this is free but I I'll I'll show you I'll go to YouTube for those >> I'm a member with I'm a member anyway so I'm already paying the whatever it is >> that's okay let me um the uh the uh thing that people are um so guys so what he's talking about the membership is for the philosophy classes so I I also have like some philosophy stuff that I'm teaching out of St. John of Damascus. He's actually my patron saint. Um, but if you go here, let me go to if you guys on YouTube, you guys can see this. Just sorry, humble, just bear with me one second. If you go here on YouTube, guys, go to my playlist tab and go to lectures through the Petristics.
Okay? And all of what I just explained, the theology, I think somebody earlier was like, I never thought about it that way. All of that comes straight from St. John of Damascus. We lectured through his first book. There's 16 lectures.
Each is like an hour and we go through all of the philosophical and theological stuff involving the Trinity. You can go through it. It's free. Read it as much as you want. Listen to it as much as you want. Um it'll it'll be a great help.
But um let me explain to you. I'm going to give you the theology. So when we say nature of God, the divine nature in orthodox theology, we call this essential properties. So the essential properties would be something like God is all knowing, God is all powerful, he's everlasting, he uh like those are things that in order to be God, you must have those things. They are essential to you being God. You must be all knowing.
you must be uh all powerful. Like you and I will agree on that. We're not going to disagree.
>> That's going to be a >> disagree, but I can't see how come love isn't a part of those.
>> Love from the Orthodox perspective is what we call one of the energies of God.
And that's that that's going to go into another conversation. I can explain it to you, but maybe not tonight.
>> Again, bro, I'm not smart nothing. These are these are honest questions. You know what I mean? I mean, >> I'm not I understand. Um but I don't want to veer off into too many different topics like I I want to I want to make sure that we stay here and then >> so whenever we have something um for us we have essential properties. These are things that make God God.
>> If I am all powerful, if I am all knowing, if I am eternal by definition I must be God. I have to be God. That's what we call essential. The father, the son, and the holy spirit possess all of these essential properties because remember they exist outside of space, time and matter. So they have these essential properties. They are eternal. They they that's you have to have that to be. So that's the essential. Now there's another distinction. We call these hypoatic properties. The hypothatic properties is the distinction. This is how we know that there is a distinction between the father, the son and the holy spirit. And these hypothatic properties is that the father is unbegotten and that the son is begotten.
Now this is where the confusion comes in for a lot of people. They say, "How can God be God if he's begotten?"
Because they share the same nature.
Remember, the nature is what makes you God. For instance, St. John of Damascus gives a very good example.
Um, even in Islam, you guys believe in in Adam, but you you you guys call him uh Adam and his wife um uh Ha, right?
Like life or something like that.
>> Yeah. So let's just but we're in the Christian paradigm but even in your paradigm you can understand from our paradigm Adam God created Adam. So you know let's just let's just say that for the for all intents and purposes that Adam is unbegotten because nobody had sex to create Adam.
God created Adam. So he's the the first.
Nobody came before Adam. Okay. No one came before Adam.
from Adam he begot somebody named Seth.
So this is just an example. I'm not saying this is God. I'm just I have to use something that logically follows so that this will make sense to you.
Adam is unbegotten because no one had relations to to bring us Adam. Seth his firstborn son is begotten.
Okay.
That means that Adam That means that Seth came from Adam, right? He came in a sense after. Okay, I I I get it. But here's the question. Is Adam more human than Seth?
>> That's a question.
>> No.
>> No. Right. They they share the same thing that we would call a human nature.
Now obviously again when I'm comparing it to created beings and things like there's it's not going to fall completely 100%. But even the even as Muslims you guys say we don't explain how there's nothing like him. So there's an aspect to where this is not going to follow and that's okay but logically it follows. That's what I'm trying to get you to to think about. There's a distinction because Adam is unbegotten and Seth is begotten. Yet they share that same one nature.
Now in our paradigm, Eve or you guys refer to her as uh Ha. Eve, she came forth from the rib of Adam. I don't know if you've heard this story.
Um, >> yeah, >> she uh came forth from the rib of Adam.
So, she wasn't begotten, not like Seth was, but she came forth from the same person, which is Adam. So, she proceeded from Adam, but she was not begotten.
Now, here's the question.
Is procession in my example? Is procession the same thing as being begotten?
>> No.
>> No. So, there's a distinction, but hold on a second. Is Eve less human than Adam and Seth?
>> No.
>> No. Thank you. So, they have the same origin.
Eve and Seth have the same origin, which would be uh uh atom, but they all share that same universal nature. What we would refer to as the essential properties of being human.
Adam, Seth, and Eve share that.
But they are distinct in their person because Adam is unbegotten.
Seth is begotten and Eve proceeds.
likewise when we are applying this to the godhead it's not going to line up one to one and the reason why is because well we have to account for certain things and and this this this guy in the comments that's saying this is Yeah, bro. It's it's it's it's BS to you because you can't refute it. That's why it's BS to you anyway. Sorry. Um what what what what was I saying? Um what what makes um it's going it's not going to apply onetoone to God because remember this is why I wanted to take you through this slowly and not just jump to a bunch of different points.
Remember, we already agreed that the father, the son, and the holy spirit, if it's true that they really do exist outside of space, time, and matter, there can be no separation in the way that Adam, Seth, and Eve are separated because Adam, Seth, Seth, and Eve exist in space.
They exist in time, and they are matter.
But God because he also has the essential properties of God exists outside of space, time and matter. So they cannot be separated the same way that Adam, Seth, and Eve are separated.
However, logically it follows that if there can be a distinction without uh we call it composition and what we're looking at they something can have the same one nature but exist as a distinction.
If it if it follows logically from a created order then it can follow logically from a uncreated order.
Does that make sense what I'm saying?
>> I'm with you 100%. I'm following everything you're saying.
>> Okay. I mean, that that that's really it. The the the the >> But the thing is the the the question that No, the only thing that was going through my head when when you're talking is okay, I'm following all of that. But then the the the the difference between Adam and uh Seth and Eve, what's the one unique difference between uh I suppose there's three everyone's got their own unique difference, but I'd say if it wasn't for Adam in the there would be no Seph and there would be no no Eve.
>> I agree. So, so there there's there's a distinction like again do we can we follow that with the father? If there was no father, there would be no holy spirit and there would be no Jesus.
>> When when was the father not the father?
>> No. If if you >> you see where I'm going with this? If the father if if the father eternally is the father and and and St. John Damascus talks about this. If if if the if there ever was a point where the father was not the father, then that means that he changed because he was not the father, then he became the father.
>> The other day I was talking to I don't know may maybe I don't know where but anyway the the same kind of thing came up and when they go um if God God's the creator, right?
>> Okay. So that means um before he created creation, if he didn't create then hell was he the creator?
>> I can answer that.
>> He always has to create.
>> I can answer that if you want.
>> You going?
>> Yep. So we we call these um for for I'm not going to get like super technical with like logic and stuff, but these are things that come out of the energies.
Uh St. Gregory Palamos um he he writes in his work called the um on um it's the 150 chapters in chapter 75 he says that there are three realities in God there is um the essence uh there is a tribe of persons and he says that there are the energies so for instance like um and I'm going to I promise I'm going somewhere with this Um, let's say that um God's glory, okay? Or or or better yet, let's let's say God's wisdom because I think wisdom is a is is a really applicable. Do you think God's wisdom is created?
>> No.
>> No, it can't be because for as long as God existed, he had to have been all wise. And if God is eternal, then his wisdom must be eternal. But here's the question. Is is Allah his wisdom?
>> No.
>> No. Right. There's a distinction there.
But just because there's a distinction doesn't mean that God is made up of parts.
So in the orthodox position, we have these things that are called we call them the energies of God because they're referred to in scripture. It says that we can even participate. You know, God gives us wisdom, his wisdom.
It says that in in Timothy but the wis but the wisdom is not the same thing as a hypothatic property. The wisdom is not in a sense the father right like the wisdom is an energy of God but it's also eternal but remember what I explained to you only God can be eternal. So if you have something that's also eternal by definition it literally must be called God. It has to be. What else can be eternal but God? So, we believe that these things exist, that they subsist within who we understand to be God, but they're distinct. So, and I'm going somewhere with this. When it gets to the idea of God being the creator, the creator is just what we call in um um Appalachian uh uh which just means a title.
But that's going to come forth from one of these energies that we may say or even like a I guess this might be like a um you probably even say that this is part of the um essential um property but it's him being creator is going to come out of him being all powerful right so for instance he can be called a creator at a particular point in time sure but it doesn't mean that he changes because he's only called a creator because of what we ascribe to him as a title, but he's always been all powerful. He's always been X, Y, and Z.
But just because we identify him as this at a particular point doesn't mean he changes. He's always been the same, >> but we just ascribe something to him at a particular point in time.
>> So can't that be argued with love his essential power and then because of his love now we give him a title and that title is the father? No. And the reason why that doesn't work is because the Bible itself says he is love. And I mean, we've already been down this this thing with and bear can explain.
>> You know how you're talking about all of this? You know how you're talking about all this? This is like I can I can relate to all of this.
>> Yeah.
>> Um inhed, you know, like when when you try to understanded in in Islam.
>> What you're talking now is very very close to my mind. And of kind of like you know like the accepting the asat and the cifhat and then accepting that god is the creator of everything and then like there's the different stages of of the belief in the one in the in the mon like that's that's very deep like I I I've stated something along the lines of this um in in Islam and I can relate to a lot of the things that you're saying.
>> Look um this is what I'll tell you. Um, do me a favor if you can. I know you you might be busy today at work, but in about Let me see. 1 2 3 4 five six seven.
>> In about Hold on. Wait. Sorry. One 2 3 4 5 6 7. In about seven hours, anywhere between seven and eight hours, >> Bear is going to go live. Okay? He does this every morning at the same time. I want you to bring to him your contentions with the whole thing about love and all powerful and tell him a mean sent me. We had a long conversation about this last night. I am actually here to understand your position.
Please explain this to me. Okay? Just say Amin sent me >> and he can explain the love thing way better than I can. Not that I can't do it, but he understands it in a in a much deeper way than I do. Um, >> so you can you can see where I'm coming from and why why I'm I keep coming back to that because I I haven't clearly, you know what I mean? Like I'm not being again spiteful. I I need to understand why can't we compare this to another one of the energies and and to that as one of the top. But anyway, I I will do that in 7 hours, 8 hours, I'll come back and I'll speak. He he normally goes live at um uh 7 a.m. EST. So right now that's in 6 hours. Okay. So >> yeah. So 10 uh so 9:00 p.m. here.
>> Yeah. Yeah. So anywhere between that time. Um I'll send him a text and let him know that you're coming. Um >> and um just say Amin sent me. Okay. But um again, bro, I I I do apologize that day. I didn't get a chance to talk. I didn't want to break up the conversation you guys were already having. Plus I came a little late. No, you're all good.
You're all because I also done that homework that we spoke about about the nine the nine signs of Moses and stuff like that. But anyway, we'll leave that for another time because you've now probably been exhausted in that. But I did I did find out what the nine signs are of Moses and and it had nothing to do with the plagues at all. Like that's not even one of the signs.
>> I don't want to say that I don't want to say we'll talk about it again. But you know, >> one day we'll talk about it. No, no. One day we'll talk about it. But I'd like to I'd like to go back to that because that was a good that was a good topic and we had a really good conversation that day.
>> We always do me and you.
>> Okay.
>> In my brother, then um I was I'll go back and speak to be tonight and and I I will next time I find you online. I I'll come back and speak to you in about something else or whatever. Or if I got questions, I'm going to jump on and read that thing that you said >> um on your page. Sus that out and I'll have questions >> if you get a chance. Um, this is the actual Sorry, I have the um I'm like a nerd. I I'm trying to get out of this habit. I just started reading like ebooks. I have I bought Kindle and stuff and but I have the actual book, guys, if you guys want to get it. Um St. John of Damascus, uh the church, the fathers of the church. It's through the um what series is this? This is the um I forget the the series, but if you guys go on Amazon, you can get this book. Uh, I'm telling you, saint, he's my patron saint. Um, his, man, his is just amazing stuff. He's he's got four books on this.
It's Orthodox theology. But if you guys, I've read like all these freaking pages, dude. Um, so, uh, if you guys want that, if you guys want to listen to those lectures, you can come here, go to lectures through the petristics on my playlist tab and just listen to all of them. And then for the members, we started going through the philosophy stuff. Um, that one because it's it takes a lot more and I haven't even finished it, but it takes a lot more to do the philosophical chapters. So, that one you have to be a member for, but the other stuff, the theology is is free.
Have fun with that. Um, but anyways, man, I will let you go, dude. Um, obviously, my brother, >> yeah, if you if you have any questions, obviously I I don't mind talking to you.
Don't hesitate to send me a message and um I I'll I'll always keep you in my prayers, bro.
>> Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much, my brother. God bless. And uh um do the prayers before you leave today. I know it's a bit late.
>> Yeah, of course. I mean I mean >> pray pray. Mah, that's beautiful. I like how you do that, man. That's the goal.
>> Yeah. I mean, I always do it at the end of every I do it before I have a uh a lot of people don't know this. I actually have a prayer book. I keep this I take this everywhere I go. I pray every day like it's the most powerful and like the thing about it is like people don't realize this and in Christianity like intellectualism is like you know it's good to learn but we don't look at intellectualism as God as I see some of these like Tik Tok Muslims they're like what's the symmetry breaker and give me a sill just I'm just like there's nothing wrong with that but at the end of the day we don't look at knowledge the same way that many other people do because it's a form of it's a form ofnosticism.
Gnosticism is an ancient heresy. But they believe that you can attain salvation through knowledge. And knowledge is good. Knowledge is not bad.
But knowledge without wisdom is useless.
So I'm I'm older than most of the people on this app. And I know you are older as well. So you have experience as a as a human being, as a man, uh as a as a you know a previous like we have experience in the real world. The real world exists outside of Tik Tok.
>> As human beings, the best thing that we can do is pray.
>> I know it seems weak.
>> Very true.
>> I know it seem but the spiritual world is real. Demons are real.
>> And if a demon shows up at your door, what are you going to do? pull out a pistol. No, our weapon is the word of God and prayer. And we ask through the intercessions of the saints and through our own patron saints to pray for us as we pray to Christ our God. So anyways, man, uh I'm going to let you go. Um hit up Bear. I'll I'll send him a text and let him know that you're coming. And um God bless you, bro.
>> You too, my brother.
>> All right, guys. Uh, I'm go ahead and pray us out and then um I'm going to shut the live down. Uh, as always, uh, uh, we go through our prayers and and obviously pray for our brother Humble.
Um, pray for me. I'm not perfect. I have my own struggles and things that I I deal with. So God, uh we just ask that you continually um help us in all things. A matter of fact, let me just go ahead and read some of these um out of the prayer book because um by the way guys, if any of you wants one of these prayers uh I mean one of these uh this prayer book, if you want this, send me a DM on Instagram. It's the same name I have here. A mean apologetics.
And I'll send you the PDF for it. Um, there's one prayer in particular. Um, where is it? I always say this.
Where is it?
Oh man.
Sorry guys. Give me one second.
Man, sorry. It's like a thousand prayers in here.
That's crazy. Now, for some reason, I cannot find this prayer.
I know it, but I don't want to say it and then maybe mess up something. Oh, here it is. This is a a prayer for enemies. Now obviously humble is not an enemy but um but it's applicable um because we want people to see salvation in the name of the father the son and the holy spirit.
I mean oh lord Jesus Christ who commanded us to love our enemies and those who defame and injure us and to pray for them and forgive them who yourself prayed for your enemies including those who crucified you. Grant us, we pray, the spirit of Christian reconciliation and meekness that we may wholeheartedly forgive every injury and be reconciled with our enemies. Grant us to overcome the wickedness and wrongdoings of others with Christian meekness and true love of our neighbor.
We further beg you, oh Lord, to grant us to grant to our enemies true peace and forgiveness of sins. Do not allow them to leave this life without true faith and sincere conversion. Lastly, help us repay evil with goodness and to remain safe from the temptations of the devil and from all the perils which threaten us in the form of visible and invisible enemies. Amen. Uh this is a prayer of St. um the metropolitan of Moscow.
Um and this is asking him to meet our needs. My lord, I know not what I ought to ask of you. You and you alone know my needs. You love me more than I am able to love you. Oh father, grant to me your servant all which I cannot ask. I dare not ask for a cross nor for consolation.
I dare only to stand in your presence.
My heart is open to you. You see my needs of which I myself am unaware.
Behold and lift me up. In your presence I stand a silenced by your will and your judgments into which my mind cannot penetrate. To you I offer myself as a sacrifice. No other desire is mine but to fulfill your will. Teach me how to pray. Pray yourself within me. Amen. And this is a prayer for the acceptance of God's will. Oh Lord, I do not know what to ask of you. You know better than me what my needs are. You love more than I know how to love. Help me to see clearly my real needs which I do not see. I open my heart to you. Examine and reveal to me my faults and sins. I put all my trust in you. I have no other desire than to fulfill your will. Teach me how to pray. Pray in me. I mean the name of the father, the holy spirit. I'm going to end this out with the Lord's prayer, guys.
and keep humble um in your prayers, God.
Guys, um I have it here on the screen, so if you guys want to follow along, you can. Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name, thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread, and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespassed against us. Lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. For thine is the kingdom and the power and the glory both now and forever into the ages of ages. I mean, and then I'm going to say it in uh Arabic as well. Um, starting here.
Amen. In the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
Amen. All right, guys. God bless. And uh I will see you guys um I'll see you guys later.
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