DISCIPLES WALK - Deeper Truth, Deeper Gospel EPISODE 1

追加: 2026-05-27

[00:00:11]Welcome back to the Disciples Walk podcast. Uh we lift you we left you guys with a bit of a cliffhanger last week.

[00:00:17]and we finished up our study of James and we told you guys that we were going to continue with this podcast style of teaching, but that we were going to change topics, but we didn't reveal what that topic was. And we want to introduce that topic or really topics. Yeah.

[00:00:33]>> Uh with a couple of verses this morning.

[00:00:35]That first one is out of First John and Jeremy's going to read that for us.

[00:00:40]>> This is out of First John starting at verse one. That watch what?

[00:00:46]That's okay, man.

[00:00:47]>> Hey, that's a celestial spanking something, >> isn't that? Yeah, you y'all missed the whole conversation at the before this and so I Yeah, that was definitely a celestial spanking. All right, here we go. That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at, with our hands have touched. This we proclaim concerning the word of life.

[00:01:11]The life appeared. We've seen it and testify to it. We proclaim to you the eternal life which was with the father and has appeared to us. We proclaim to what you have seen and heard so that you also may fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the father and with his son Jesus Christ.

[00:01:31]>> And there is a there is a second verse that we want to put out there before we kind of un unpack those or or speak to the importance of those. And it's Deuteronomy 29:29. It says this, "The secret things belong to the Lord our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our children forever that we may follow all the words of this law."

[00:01:55]So, so David, we have these two two big passages here. What is it in these verses that led you to wanting to go into this particular study? And and maybe another question there is what are some of those things that we're going to be looking at in this study? Yeah, they the uh well the first one in first John >> we as we finished for those who may follow us online uh not just this podcast but maybe came over through unashamed or through our Sunday morning service >> uh we finished up we've been several weeks in James and then we are starting first John >> and Mike introduced it I had the second sermon and it was from this text And there is so much in those three verses.

[00:02:41]It's packed. It it's it's a mouthful.

[00:02:43]It's a headful.

[00:02:45]>> And the teacher in me says, "Let's just camp out for a while in there." And we could >> because you could you could you could spend weeks there. Yes.

[00:02:53]>> Weeks that that and one verse ties to this and ties to this. In fact, when you read First John and we made this point when we preached this sermon that in fact I guess probably the way this this this podcast dropped the sermon people may have already heard the sermon before they hear this podcast.

[00:03:11]>> We made that point that that when you read First John 1, your mind goes back immediately to Genesis 1 >> and then to John one.

[00:03:22]>> Absolutely. Yeah.

[00:03:23]>> And John does that on purpose. That's not by accident >> because he wants our readers to go there and that can be a little mind-blowing.

[00:03:31]But the well and we were always taught follow wherever the study goes follow it and and so we were of course playing around with different ideas. Where do we go with this? And this this whole idea of God becoming flesh, Jesus manifest. And then you go to the Deuteronomy passage that talks about the secret things of God, but these things that are belong to the Lord, but these things are revealed.

[00:04:01]That whole idea of being revealed corresponds with this whole it's a >> seemingly a parallel passage to the the the first John passage which we've looked proclaimed it appeared it manifest to us >> that he has revealed things to us that we delve into. So that kind of just led our minds to talking and thinking about what is this this theology? What is this delving into who God is, what he does?

[00:04:35]Uh which we'll see in just a minute really two different things or if not not in this podcast in future podcast >> that they're two different things. Who God is and what he does are two different things. Um, we confuse that I think even as human beings because I can tell you who are you? Oh, I usually start by telling you what I do. Who I am and my nature is different than really than what I do. But I'm jumping ahead on that probably.

[00:05:00]>> Man, you're like at podcast seven.

[00:05:02]>> I am. What is it you say? You're a dot to me.

[00:05:04]>> You're a dot.

[00:05:05]>> Well, this is an introduction of where we're going and some of the things that we're going to be talking about. So you use the word theology there and and one of the things that that we have have looked at is kind of breaking that down and saying the >> theologies theologies, >> right? Because there's there's more than to theology than just the study of God itself. It breaks down into multiple components, right? So what are what are some of those other things that we can be looking at?

[00:05:28]>> Oh, you get to use your big words. We get to use ready for my big. I'm so excited.

[00:05:32]>> I hope I can say the big words.

[00:05:34]>> I tell you what would be fun is let him try to say the big words.

[00:05:37]>> Oh my goodness. We've already seen this morning that my tongue is not working today, which was from the beginning.

[00:05:43]>> That was hard already.

[00:05:44]>> That was tough. Those weren't even big words. You math people.

[00:05:47]>> Yeah.

[00:05:48]>> Big equations is not big words.

[00:05:49]>> That's right.

[00:05:50]>> But it's funny cuz the the play on theology, theologies. I thought that was so unique. And it is.

[00:05:57]>> Oh, I love that.

[00:05:58]>> But then I I Googled it and somebody a few years ago wrote a children's book called Theology. And I I'm ordering it cuz it I saw a little preview. It looks really good.

[00:06:08]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[00:06:09]>> So, we'll we'll let you know about how that works and how that is in the future. But it's a 300 and something page children's book. Well, well, for children >> for children. I'm not sure I would read it at 300 pages.

[00:06:21]>> It's a tough one for me at 300, but it looks I've read a little bit.

[00:06:24]>> I think what they they say a children's book because it puts your children to sleep at night time when you read it to Well, there you go. That's what it is.

[00:06:31]>> Some of us that excites us and that keeps us up at night, right? So, so and and my daughter is is a a uh a little bit of a theology nerd. We like to talk about about these big words and these big big topics. So, so not every child's that way, but I get your point. Yes.

[00:06:46]>> But but but it's a great point because >> theology and we were talking about this in the discussion >> can get weedy. Yes, it can. And we can get lost in those weeds to the point and and there's a there's a challenge here because it can get so out there that it can lose us.

[00:07:08]>> Yeah.

[00:07:09]>> But then if we simplify it so much that and it can be dismissive. Well, how's this even? It's kind of like the the math question as a math teacher. You got how am I going to use this in life in real life? Well, and I used to love when I taught physics because I taught physics as well as my algebra classes.

[00:07:28]And I used to tell kids when they got to physics, I said, "This is when you get to use it."

[00:07:32]>> And I said, "Without algebra, you cannot do physics, >> right?"

[00:07:36]>> And so there's a building process there.

[00:07:38]>> Well, and that's an excellent point because without understanding a foundation of theology, >> well, let me reword that.

[00:07:50]A foundation in theology gives us how we practice our life.

[00:07:54]>> Exactly.

[00:07:55]>> And and we don't necessarily always put those things together, but they go together, >> right?

[00:08:01]>> Um and so we've kind of titled this this series I or at least a working title is practical systematic theology.

[00:08:09]>> Yeah.

[00:08:10]>> And that sounds a lot heavier than what it is.

[00:08:12]>> Yeah. It made my head hurt. Well, well, Jere Jeremy made the joke as he's stumbling over words, but he said this one uh very this word in quotes.

[00:08:22]>> Praatic.

[00:08:22]>> It's practical and it's systematic at the same time. Yes.

[00:08:25]>> And so the you just break that down practical. Uh and we ask the questions, okay, how useful is this?

[00:08:32]>> How do we live this out? What are the implications for my life?

[00:08:35]>> Um it has to do with how we think about things and perceive things. Sure. Right.

[00:08:40]>> And and what what is this knowing this?

[00:08:43]How does this help me live this out?

[00:08:45]Systematic >> meaning that there's a system to it.

[00:08:49]There's an order to it. God is not an >> God of chaos. He's a God of order. He brought order and he designed things in order and there's a system to it >> uh to help us understand. And there we'll illustrate that more in just a minute. Yes. But then the theology of course is just ology study of theos's god.

[00:09:10]>> Yeah.

[00:09:10]>> So there is a practical system systemic theology. There is a study of God that is organized and systemic that can be lived out. Yeah. And has implications for my life.

[00:09:25]>> Sure.

[00:09:26]>> Uh and so some of theologies uh that that's a long way to get to your question a while ago.

[00:09:32]>> That's all right. And >> which kind may give you an idea of how this is going to go, >> right? I mean because it's very well when we talk about the system stuff, it all relates because there is theology uh the study of God. There's christologology, a study of Christ.

[00:09:50]There's pneumatology, study of the Holy Spirit. There's >> homology, which is a study of sin. And you think, "Oh, sin, sin." Ah, you start looking at all of it and then you go the gamut of >> original sin, inherited sin, indwelled sin and you know all these different things there and that that have been discussed for a long time.

[00:10:13]>> Sotierology is a study of redemption or salvation and within that there's covenant theology. I guess that would be a a covenant.

[00:10:22]>> I think we just stick with covenant theology.

[00:10:24]>> Covenant theology works better. Okay.

[00:10:26]which has to do with when you when you go look at covenants, you look at blood, you look at s sacrifice, you look at ceremony, you look at priesthood, >> uh law and covenant keeping, covenant breaking and all those things, and we'll kind of spend some time with that.

[00:10:44]>> You look at ecclesiology, which has to do with the study of the church, the body of Christ or the family of God. What does that mean? And then you get into esquetology which is the study of the last things or what people call the end times. Yep.

[00:11:00]>> And so all these >> fall under the head of systematic theology, right?

[00:11:07]>> Because you have a system here, a system here, a system here, a system here, and somehow or another they all come together to to work.

[00:11:16]>> Sure.

[00:11:17]>> Um and I guess this is the point where I tell my biologist. Well, yeah, that's what I was going to say. Say is there >> I think it was when you were in school, you had a analogy that was that applies to this kind of systematic approach to theology very well.

[00:11:33]>> So, I was uh in my undergrad at ulm and I I took a summer biology class and Dr. Bounds taught it, the best science teacher I ever had. and and I don't even remember the course, but he came in. He said, "Okay, we got six weeks and what we're going to do is we're going to build a body."

[00:11:54]>> Like, all right.

[00:11:54]>> It's like Frankenstein.

[00:11:55]>> Sounds great. Exactly.

[00:11:58]>> Frankenstein.

[00:11:59]>> Frankenstein.

[00:12:00]>> But it's a I was like, "Okay, this sounds like fun." Um, and it it was great. He said, "The body is made up of systems. You have this system here. You have the cardiac. You have the respiratory. You have the central nervous system. You have endocrine system. You have all these different systems and the at its basic level they're all made up of cells. And the cell is a system. And this cell works with these cells to do these things. And these cells types of cells are in these types of organs. And then with each with within each system, you have organ systems that work together and they all form a body that function together.

[00:12:42]uh >> to make things happen. And I thought, >> okay, so we spent over the next six to seven weeks in that summer course studying each of the systems and how they related to the other system, >> right?

[00:12:58]>> And I tell you what, best science class I ever had. And he was a great teacher.

[00:13:03]>> And and I so I'm here I am nearly 40 years later still talking about that class. I'm remembering that when >> they're but not a scientist.

[00:13:12]>> Not I definitely not a scientist. No doubt. And but when we talk about theology >> understanding and studying God, well that's just a mouthful right there. But understanding Christ, Christtologology >> and the incarnation and what that means and how the Holy Spirit pneumatlogy works. Yep. And they're there and then you have homology homo study of sin. Gotcha.

[00:13:43]>> And what was sin and how does that work in relation to this other? And then you have sotiology, a study of salvation and redemption. How does that work? And how do these covenants systems that God designed and developed work into and how does that apply now?

[00:13:58]>> Sure.

[00:13:59]>> All that and then how do we live as the body of Christ, esquetologic or ecclesiology, >> right? So, so in other words, like there is there is a point to this as one of the things that really strikes me and maybe it's because I'm a theological nerd to begin with. Um, so I try to not be super biased in these types of studies, but but Christian, >> yeah, you know, that's fair. Uh, I I think it is fair to say, as we're saying fair, that u sometimes our Christian faith or our Christian understanding can be rather shallow.

[00:14:28]>> Sure. And so I think that there's a book that David and I are working through that he says something to the effect of it can be 10 feet wide and like a half inch deep or something to that effect.

[00:14:37]And I and I do think that that is true.

[00:14:39]We we don't always want to dig deeper.

[00:14:42]And I think that there is a variety of reasons for that. Not bad reasons even necessarily. Maybe it's because we uh have a view of oursel that we're not smart enough to handle these topics or that the topics themselves are just too difficult. Um maybe it's because we don't see the value in studying these types of things. Like well these are like maybe your thought is the these are secondary issues. Why do I need to study them? Um and so I think we do need to make a point here that what we're talking about is not just an exercise in gaining knowledge. It's not about the knowledge itself.

[00:15:16]>> If if your knowledge is just about learning some facts, then then you're studying for the wrong reasons. And and I can just give you a little mini testimony of myself here on this. When I first came to to Christ uh back in in 20 or early 2013, I quickly very quickly became obsessed with these types of things.

[00:15:36]>> Um I felt like I had so many years of just not being in the church uh to catch up on and I just had a fire to learn and learn and learn. But what I missed in that is that God doesn't just want me to learn more things about him. He wants me to learn things about him so that I grow closer to him.

[00:15:56]>> So we can't miss the and that's kind of the practical side of it. So like we're working in relationship with with God and we're growing in him and we're serving him and all of these things and and Jeremy, you had a really great analogy for this too. It's it's like a marriage, right? Well, when I think about this, of course, the the ologies don't give you your salvation. And I think that's a key point to understand here.

[00:16:22]>> Our salvation comes from the death, burial, and resurrection, and our belief in that and what Christ has done for us.

[00:16:28]>> But at the same time, if you look at it like in a marriage, when you say I do, you know, 18, 19, 25 years old, you are now married. Being married 48 years like my wife and I don't make us more married, right? Because we extended the time over 48 years. We're the same married we were when we got married at 19 years old.

[00:16:52]>> And so you're say so I look at that and I go, "Okay, so what do we do?" Well, you if you marry at like I did at 19 years old and you cease studying your spouse, >> Yeah. cease studying the love that you have in your relationship, then you're going to have a very stunted relationship for the remainder of your marriage, which may not even be very long, right?

[00:17:19]>> As a result of that, >> because the whole point is I want to spend now the next 45, 55, 60 years with my wife, getting to know them better, understanding them, making sure our relationship is something that is deep and is growing. We don't want it to stop because most of us when we got married were pretty shallow in our relationship.

[00:17:40]Oh yeah. We had a high level of emotion >> but not a but not very much of a level of understanding at that point in time.

[00:17:49]And so we spend the rest of our life getting to know one another. Not to make us more married.

[00:17:55]>> Yeah.

[00:17:56]>> But to make the more the marriage more beneficial and more gracious and more loving. And I think that's what happens in our studies here. You know, I'm I'm one that the big words, they don't scare me, but they bore me.

[00:18:09]>> Sure.

[00:18:11]>> But I do want to know about the Holy Spirit. Yeah. I do want to know about what Christ has done in my life. I do want to know about what God is and what he looks like. I just don't necessarily like the big words that are attached to it.

[00:18:23]>> Yeah. Don't don't let the the big words turn you off because what what they're talking about is is they're they're talking about God. Right. Right. And so don't miss what these things are ultimately pointing pointing you to.

[00:18:36]Again, this is not just an exercise in mental gymnastics. Like I'm I'm trying to figure out all all of these things just so I can have better head knowledge. No, it's it's so that I can have a better relationship.

[00:18:46]>> We want to have our relationship with the Lord grow every day and to become something amazing. And it can't do that if we just stay at okay, I'm saved now.

[00:18:54]>> Right. Right. Well, and there's a different levels and different uh times of our life where we where we grow >> and and so you mentioned Kennley. Yeah.

[00:19:07]>> Earlier >> who is grasping ideas of theology and likes to think through that. It's it's it can be as simple as that for a what she's 10 11 years old and and and be thinking about that in this children's book to help discuss theology with a child because it can be that simple.

[00:19:29]>> But as we grow, it creates a foundation to to really mine deeper >> into the things of God.

[00:19:36]>> Well, that that Yeah, that's that's interesting. So, we we do I know you guys know this, but our online audience may not may not know. My family uh a year and a half ago started taking a weekly Sabbath, started practicing a Sabbath and one of the things that we do is uh we do a devotional together and we rotate who teaches that or who leads that discussion and that includes Kinley. So she's 11 and she is leading DVOS in our house. But uh Katie was out of town this past week and so it was just Kinley and I and it was my week and I went to First John 1, John 1 and Genesis 1 and my daughter 11 years old and I talked about how Jesus is God >> and she was so excited about that because she you could start seeing the light bulbs go off, the dots were connecting for her and I love to be a part of that that Deuteronomy passage.

[00:20:28]It says, "The things revealed belong to us and to our children forever." What?

[00:20:34]Well, I love that.

[00:20:35]>> And the revealed things, not some of the revealed things. So, I if I like to say if if God has revealed something in here, then we need to study it and look at it and dig into it because there's something in there that he wants us to know so that we can be better followers of Christ and so that we can grow closer to him. Mhm. Mhm. It's it's interesting because when you said that it's a there's two sides of a of a thing cuz uh from a Jewish perspective, an ancient Jewish perspective and really it's an an it's an Eastern perspective is that that information is out there. It's it's revealed. It's in it's it's ours to discover. Mhm.

[00:21:19]>> We uh I think from a western is like, "Oh, we invented something."

[00:21:26]>> But but an eastern mindset is, "Oh, we stumbled across something new."

[00:21:32]>> From a eastern mindset, from what I've been told, because I've never been eastern.

[00:21:36]>> Sure.

[00:21:37]>> Is is that it's there and you find it.

[00:21:40]And that goes with some of the parables.

[00:21:42]This treasure that was there and you sell everything you've got and you buy the field. Yes. it was there and you you were looking for it >> and that is those revealed he God has made this known >> right >> uh not only in his scripture but in his word and we'll talk more as in future podcasts but but this whole idea of becoming a human being >> in that he invites us to >> he reveals himself in a very personal way to us and then when we get into the Holy Spirit even even deeper intimate uh revealing.

[00:22:22]But that's that we'll spend the rest of our lives mining into the things he's revealed.

[00:22:29]>> But also in that Deuteronomy 29 is there are things that God didn't reveal.

[00:22:36]>> Sure.

[00:22:36]>> Absolutely.

[00:22:37]>> There's those secret things >> and >> we got to be okay with that.

[00:22:42]>> We got to be okay with there's some things we don't know.

[00:22:44]>> Yeah. I remember just two nights ago I was I woke up at 2 in the morning and like I usually do at 2 in the morning if I wake up I'm going to spend some time in prayer >> and but part of my prayer was God I don't have to know the answers.

[00:22:56]>> I trust you and I think that's part of what that of understanding the secret things are or understanding that there are secret things.

[00:23:02]>> Yeah.

[00:23:03]>> My my prayer at two in the morning is I don't Lord I don't know why I woke up but please help me go back to sleep.

[00:23:08]It's going to be a long day.

[00:23:10]>> Yeah. No doubt about it. But you use you use that word deeper deeper there and I I want to touch on that for just a second. So, one of the things that David had said, David, David, you said previously, >> we've done a series called Simple Truth, Simple Gospel in the past, because th this story we see behind this this this gospel story, it really is, it's a simple story.

[00:23:30]>> Sure.

[00:23:31]>> Um, and this is something we're going through with our young adults on Wednesday nights that the story of Jesus and what he did, what he accomplished.

[00:23:39]It is a simple story to tell, but it is also very deep and very rich at the same time. And so we've kind of joked that this series can become almost a deeper truth, deeper gospel. But in that >> it's still the same truth. It is still the same gospel. But digging deeper leads leads us to a a fuller understanding. It'll add >> looking at these ologies and things things revealed. It will really color the gospel. It'll give us give more depth to it, more richness to it.

[00:24:08]>> And that's kind of the direction that we're going to be going over the next however many weeks.

[00:24:12]>> I'm excited about it.

[00:24:12]>> Yeah. Well, and you know, it's we we change.

[00:24:19]>> God doesn't change. That's right.

[00:24:21]>> The gospel doesn't change. These things that we're looking into, >> they're nothing. They're they're ancient. They're from God. They're from the mind of God. They're from God.

[00:24:30]>> We are changing because that's changing us. It's a very dynamic process. And it can get complex. It can get weedy. And our our goal is to not get lost in that, >> right? even beyond what we do here. But we have to also be sure because knowledge could puff up.

[00:24:48]Absolutely. That's what Paul said. And we need to be really really humble as we come into this. Uh people have looked at this >> for centuries >> and a lot of these things and and there's and it's been the source of great division sometimes because of pride and we don't want that. But we do want to lean in and learn.

[00:25:08]>> And at the end of it really uh our starting point and you mentioned the gospel symbols. Our starting point is the it's rooted in the gospel and found in the soil of scripture. That's right.

[00:25:22]>> And that's where >> we're going to let that guide us with that. And we don't know everything. We don't have all the answers. At some point we may look at each other and say, you know, it's a good point, but I don't know. Well, well, and I and I think that that's the thing that we all have to learn to do. It is okay to say, "I don't know." What is not okay is to say, "I'm going to give up and never never grow from this point forward." Because that's not what God desires for us.

[00:25:44]>> And speaking, >> I even think of the scripture as you're saying that is God opposes the proud and gives grace to us.

[00:25:49]>> Absolutely.

[00:25:50]>> In your humility, if you say, "I just don't understand yet." That's okay.

[00:25:53]>> God give me wisdom.

[00:25:55]>> God give me wisdom to see.

[00:25:56]>> Yeah. And so next week as we as we kind of get ready to land the plan on this introduction here, next week what we're going to do is we're going to look at the foundation for all of these ologies, the foundation for the gospel and our understanding of it. And that is God and his unique nature. So join us back next week and we're going to take a deeper look at who God is. We'll see you then.