Downwind foiling is a water sport where riders use wind energy and their own physical effort to travel long distances across open water without motorized propulsion. Key equipment considerations include choosing shorter masts (75-77cm) for reduced drag and easier takeoff, using hollow boards for lighter weight and easier pumping, and selecting appropriate foil aspect ratios based on wave conditions. The pumping technique involves synchronized leg movements and body positioning to generate propulsion, with riders aiming to maintain their foil on the edge of collapse for maximum efficiency. Safety equipment such as charged phones, waterproof cases, and life jackets are essential for long-distance crossings.
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La Aventura del Downwind con Frankie Pugliese - #ep19Añadido:
He gave me his American mobile number earlier because he's in California right now, apparently in Los Angeles, I don't know where he is, so it's like 9 hours less, uh, the thing is.
I think it's around 10:30.
The guy speaks Spanish. Yes, damn it, he is Argentinian, isn't he? The Uruguayan, [clears throat] doesn't speak Spanish. We're going to ask about the Ayuso controversy if she's aware of what's happened.
Fallen to Mexico to cause trouble. I don't know anymore. Well, I'm kind of out of touch with everything. Alright.
Now I'm with Paraguin and Dan Win and Paraguin and Dan Win and Paraguin. Already.
If I try it, man. I really want to. I have already heard several very interesting things about different names for the paragon.
Uh, one is the paraongers, you know that one.
Paramger, no, a morgos.
No, like, "[ __ ]," or something. Monger for mers.
Ah, I thought it was Morger from a morgos.
No, for Mongers. For Mongers. And the last one I liked was a real struggle. Ah, you've got it made [laughs] to suffer.
The other day I started the first day I went into the swamp and a guy who does panfil and stuff arrived, and well, I met him recently, he's from Madrid, he makes videos and stuff and he told me, "Yeah, you've gone in with him to suffer." And I say, "Holy crap, you nailed it, huh?" [laughs] Well, this is Josema program number 19.
19 19 holy [ __ ], now I'm going to look it up in the script.
Well, welcome to Aileando program number 19, right?
Yes, our guest today could come in at any time, right?
Yes, yes, yes. I'm here deviating a bit from the script I was going to tell you because it might seem like we haven't prepared it.
In fact, I've seen some of his interviews, but well, they were more general interviews. Today I think we're going to get a little more to the point, right?
Yes, yes, yes, yes. Ask him about the things we like. It's the eve of the Rocío pilgrimage here, and the horses are down there [laughs] and the pilgrims. [laughs] It's true that it's the eve of the dew, they 're already crossing.
Yes, some have already left their homes after the dew. Some go by car and others go on horseback. [laughter] They're crossing the river. Well, the layout has something of this. Franky's already done, I'll add him. Okay, you'll know what Rocío Franky is, hello, hello, hello, welcome.
How's it going? How are you all doing? All good?
Yes, we're talking a bit about how Ale and I don't see each other much, we're each on opposite sides of Spain and we see each other very little actually and sometimes we take advantage of recording time to tell each other things.
Clear. Divine. Well, [laughs] you, José, are in Andalusia, right?
Where were you?
Ale is in Andalusia. Ale is in Huelva.
I am in San Sebastián, the other side.
Ah, spectacular. Yes, yes, yes, yes.
He has, I have the Atlantic like you, but the worst part. And he has the Cantabrian coast, right, Josema? I have a good portion of waves, a bad portion of wind. I don't know if you know the area a bit, Franky, but I was there. Yes, I was in San Sebastián, but well, at the time of year, I think it was the end of summer, things were very quiet and I went there with a friend to wander around and no, I mean, yes, we rented boards and everything, but there wasn't much going on, so we were more out for a stroll and then, well, nothing else, I wasn't in Andalusia much, I passed through Seville quickly, but that was it [clears throat] divine. But well, well, even though it was hard for us to meet for the first time, I have a little script, Franky. I've already studied a bit about the things you've done and so on, and well, since you told me that you didn't mind talking and that you like it a little, you have no problem, so we're going to let you introduce yourself a little. We haven't said anything about what you do, although many people probably already know you, especially those who do similar things and don't follow each other, right? the people who are involved in that.
Yes, it's quite a niche community, so to speak.
Yes, yes. So if you want, introduce yourself a little. We only said that you were in Los Angeles, I think.
Divine. Well, thank you very much for inviting me to the talk.
We had several back-and-forths about schedules, especially since our schedules are quite different, but anyway, now I'm in Los Angeles. I spend half the year in California and the other half in Uruguay/Argentina, since I have family there and well, I have many South American roots, so I spend a lot of time there. And these last few years I've been getting really into the world of foil. I started with wingfoiling about two years ago and quickly saw what downwind was and quickly wanted to get rid of the sail. Uh, and well, we're just exploring as much as possible. I am super excited about the sport and I see it growing more and more every day. And well, the motivation is also to add people there in Argentina, in Uruguay, who little by little are joining [sigh] in this world and that's where we are. So that's kind of my intro. I was going to say that I think you started quite recently, right? 2024 or something like that or 2023. When did you start with the Yes, I mean, I've always surfed, I've surfed all my life. Uh, that was like my main sport. I was never a strong competitor, more for enjoyment, eh, and it always happened to me that, especially in Uruguay, in the afternoons the wind always blows and there is too much wind for surfing. And at some point I tried kitesurfing, but for some reason it didn't quite convince me, or maybe it just wasn't for me. It was a matter of putting in more time because I know kitesurfing is an amazing sport. But when I saw wingsuit flying, I saw people flying in Uruguay in the afternoons with my dad, and one day we went to investigate a bit to get some equipment or take lessons, and little by little we got hooked. Then, one day my dad and I bought a piece of equipment that was a foil, which I don't think I could even make work today. It was like a tiny piece of metal, but well, it was the motivation to start getting into it. And then one day we bought a proper foil and started getting into wingsuit flying seriously. And well, that's when I quickly discovered downwind flying and started doing it, obviously, with the winch. And when I picked up the paddle, it was like another new addiction, so that's pretty much how it went. I heard you in another interview that was a bit more general than the one I saw that they did with you in Argentina. I heard like you had started, uh, doing dwin, uh, well, seeing people in California, right? You told me that what you liked most was being able to bring the sport to Argentina and Uruguay, because you were really seeing it there in California.
Clear. Already.
So, did you come from there, or were the first ones there, or how did you start? Of course, when I came back to California, I knew how to windsurf, but here the wind isn't that strong, so for sailing you needed either a bigger sail or a more efficient downwind board. And there on Facebook Market I saw a Downwind board and when I went to buy it and I met the owner of the board, he was a Frenchman who did downwind paddling and he was the one who told me, "Hey, this board is great for Lightwind, but it 's made for Downwind Paddling."
And so, with that board I started experimenting and practicing, and there was a community of people here, all really cool, in the sense that I wasn't at their level, obviously because I was learning, but they would take me with them on their downwind runs and either drop me off halfway down and I would walk to the car, which in the end took the same amount of time because I wasn't basically foiling, or I would start with them and they would come looking for me when I finished at sunset, obviously always with their phones and all that, so, they were the ones who kind of taught me about downwinding here, and from the moment I started I looked at the maps of Argentina and Uruguay, the winds and I said, I mean, this has to be possible, it has to be possible there too. And I think that's the magic of this sport, that not all the places where you can do it are so open yet, I mean, not all the places where you can do it are so discovered, because there are millions of them all over the world. As long as you have a more or less significant body of water and a wind coming from a certain direction, the possibilities are endless. And that's what's so impressive about this sport.
I want to ask you, did you have any experience with rowing or was it just a means to go and find the Dwin? Clearly, uh, no, the paddler had done some surfing with the sub in the waves, but very calmly, very passively. Sometimes to train he would go out with the sub to paddle a little, but never like a sub race or anything because there are many people who come from the sub race who obviously have a perfect paddling technique and they usually learn very quickly. You see, there are a lot of people who come from the Subraace and also a lot of people who come from the IQ Foil, and those two types of people usually do very well with the Dwin foil to Reno.
Yes. Let's see. Hm. Let me give you some context: I've been in the process of getting into diving for almost a year and a half because the conditions in my area aren't windy, they're mostly waves.
Sure, but not short-period waves, they are long-period waves and they are a different kind of waves. Okay? So, we just didn't get the right conditions and the right equipment. That's why I'm taking longer [laughs], but I do know that the community, for example, throughout the Mediterranean or some areas like Tarifa and other areas where there is constant wind, has a lot of people who have been making a natural evolution, let's say, to that sport or who practice three or four sports related to foiling and dwing, that's kind of the goal, right? Let's say, being able to do good Darwin and enjoy what you've said. I think that for someone who's a bit adventurous or something, I don't know how to say it, or someone who wants to explore or something, the idea of being out at sea alone, sailing on waves, is like, wow, without a motor, right? Uh, it's a kind of drug. Yes, that's why I heard you say that the first one you did, or one of the first longer ones you did, and one you did alone, uh, I don't know if it was the one in Punta, Paloma, Punta del Este in Uruguay, 100 km or something like that.
Yes, exactly.
Could be. And you did that alone, I read or heard that your mother took you, if not, to be able to do the logistics, which is one of the problems we always talk about. So, how was that thing you did all by yourself? It had to be a little bit, right? Tell us about the evolution of how it got to that point, or how it was at the beginning.
He's gone very fast, very fast. I mean, it was, I mean, they ask me specifically about that route or the preparation or how I came to say a little bit from the beginning, right? We've left it there that you've left the foil and now you have to start looking for something you plan.
How do you get past 100 km/h? Exact.
Of course, right? Well, as I said, the evolution here in California, learning, was relatively rapid. Well, I also dedicated my hours to it and spent a lot of time on the water paddling without foiling, and well, when the downwind thing started to click and I could maintain a constant flight, I said, "How far can I go with this?"
Because it's amazing to look at a map and say, "Well, from here to here I can get in so many hours." And here in California we did a day trip of about uh uh almost 80 km with some friends, with two friends, uh they ride very well and that was like the confirmation that I could do some really long downwins and quite calmly, especially if you go on a downwin that is close to the coast, like if anything happens, you can go back to the coast and it's not so serious.
You have your phone on you, you call someone, you have water, you have, uh, it says everything you need to have. And well, as I said, when I looked at the map in Uruguay, and saw that there was a cape called La Paloma, all the way to Punta del Este, which was this 100 km journey, it was like, I mean, once I saw that it was possible, I felt that it was an obligation to do it, I couldn't let it pass me by. Yes. [laughs] Uh, and if I didn't do it, I was going to drive myself crazy until I didn't do it. So, one day I said to my mom, "Please take me, and if you do n't want to take me, someone else will, okay? Look, look, if you go over there to that cape, that's La Paloma.
La Paloma, right? From here, right here.
Perfect. Yes. So, as you can see, it's pretty straight. [clears throat] The wind generally comes from the east, so it's not exactly across the coast, but well, if you just keep your profile more or less going this way to your left, you'll see it's about 82 km, but you know, when you're foiling you add distance, you do more kilometers, of course, because you're not going in a straight line, and well, that was the plan. So one day my mom took me, I had all my things, you know? My water, my gels, my electrolyte water and everything. And the conditions, they were really mild from beginning to end, so I got up and from the start I felt good, right?
You know when you start a downwinder and you already feel like you're being pushed to your limits in the first half hour, that's a bad sign, huh? But this, it just carried me along and carried me along, so it was very pleasant, and like I said, being alone there with my head and, well, talking to the camera every now and then. It was a very, very beautiful moment of feeling, of freedom, total freedom, connection with the sea, letting myself be carried away by the sea, being totally connected. It was spectacular.
I think that Ale, the philosophical or spiritual side of the Danwin thing is that you don't have it yet.
No, no, no. [laughs] It's just that Ale has been doing water sports all her life, but in the area where they sail, they have n't seen the conditions yet, nor have they even tried.
Yes, okay. And I think, wow, it's a different sport, clearly, and it's a different feeling, and explaining it is a bit complicated, but the feeling is, and look, I still don't control it. Well, going from one wave to another isn't always easy, sometimes I do n't even have the right foil yet, but when you're feeling good and flowing, it's like, wow, for me. So, if you want to ask your questions, Ale, because I already... Yes, a little bit... well, how can you explain a little about the sea in Uruguay and California?
I suppose it's different when it comes to planning the flip, right? With foils, equipment, a bit. And yes, yes, all seas have their own particularities. In the sea in Uruguay, when this easterly wind comes, it often comes with an easterly swell, that is, the groundswell.
And then you have two types of waves, so to speak. You have the more local waves that are generated by the wind, and at the same time you have those faster waves that come from much farther away, that's the main swell. So, if you're using a relatively fast foil, you can also let yourself be carried by the groundswell waves, which are the most... Fast. So, in Uruguay, sometimes you're under 2 minutes per kilometer, which is incredibly fast. Uh, here in California, well, especially in Southern California, where I am, the wind is gentler and the waves have a shorter period, so it 's not as fast. Uh, it's a different style of downwind too, you know? More about trying to squeeze every last drop of energy out of your body, which is good training for being efficient and managing fatigue and all that. And then, obviously, you go to Hawaii, and it's a different kind of sea, with incredibly fast swells and strong winds. Uh, each one has its own characteristics.
Yes, it's very interesting to see the different types. And which one you feel most comfortable in, maybe where you feel most at ease and where it's easiest, is when it's, for example, in Hood River in Oregon, where the waves are very pronounced, [clears throat] so that's very easy to... Lifting up is literally like catching a wave; it carries you very easily, lifts the foil easily, and once you 're up, you basically don't have any kind of stress. You 're up there, and it carries you. I mean, that seems like the easiest condition to me, but what I like most is when you're on an efficient, fast foil, and you can get on that surface that's faster than going full speed. And that's what I enjoy the most. I enjoy that more than doing turns and such, honestly. And what about the wind? That's something that still... what wind conditions... it says, "Well, I can pull off and do... and if it has to be a completely backwind or maybe a little [snort] there's some cl... it's very interesting because, like I said, every place changes too." Um, for example, here in California, the way the bay is designed, uh, where we do it, uh, you don't need much wind because that wind comes from very far away. So, directly with eight knots we can send someone to do a downwind run, because there's something called fetch in English, it comes from far away and in Uruguay, in fact, the sea itself helps you, you don't need the wind, just the sea itself.
Clear. Well, this isn't a wind sport, not at all. You're not using the wind, you're simply using the energy that the wind generates. That's the big difference. In fact, if it's been blowing for a day and the sea is choppy and the wind dies down, the wind doesn't slow down at all, you can keep rowing with the oar, right? The wind doesn't affect you in that sense that he has died.
If you're using a sail, a pair, then yes, if the wind dies, nothing, you have to swim towards the shore. But this is the divine thing about this sport, that even if the wind dies, the energy continues for a while, you see?
There, I read that paragin was sometimes a method of security for you too.
Clear. Yes. Uh, the paraglider is great to have with you because [clears throat] especially if you're doing long crossings and stuff, because suddenly your paddle breaks or something happens to your board or you 're unable to get up, right?
Maybe so, or maybe the wind suddenly shifted, did something strange, and you have the parachute to be able to sail to one side, at least.
Uh, it's good, but then you have Hawaii, for example, uh, the wind in general, I don't understand this exactly because there the wind comes from very far away because you're in the middle of the sea, but there it feels like you need more wind than other places, uh, for the wave to be generated properly, but anyway, there's always wind there in summer, especially. That feeling you're talking about, Franky, I have it a lot. Basque Country facing the Mediterranean. I do n't know if it's because of the type of seabed with great depth or something like that, but the surface wind is not enough to generate that deep, short-period wave.
You need a lot of wind. They have to be 15 or 20 or higher. Clear.
And also, since it comes mixed with the much larger wave, it has to be even more pronounced because the other one bothers you, let's say, the down, you know?
Clear. Yes, yes, yes. And I wanted to tell you before that you explained it very well, and we're having a discussion, in quotes, and it's that my friends who do dangin here have decided to use large foils and, uh, let's say sacrifice the period wave in order to link, even if it's with, uh, they let go of the period wave in order to link the wave behind.
Sure, I understand, right? And then they're using foils with a lower ratio and more surface area.
Hm. Personally, I'm not very attracted to them either, but I understand that under certain conditions you have to carry, well, the equipment that allows you to float and pump, right?
Yes, no, yes, it's definitely a trade-off, because if you 're with a very small foil, obviously when you're foiling you can reach all the faster waves and so on, but then to get up you have a higher challenge and you have to spend more energy, but yes, if you're with a big foil you have that possibility of getting up the foil easily, but then you're going to be working hard and pumping to [clears throat] stay on a wave until it passes because it's very fast and you have to pump the one behind you and so on. I actually have a friend who flew from Molocai to Oaju with a 220 foil lift, which is huge, and he told me, at first I thought, "Ah, I'm awesome." I mean, I got up right away and for the first 15 minutes I said, "This is going to be the easiest race of my life." He ended up cramping up, he had to swim to the finish line because he couldn't do any more of the pumping, he was too fast for the distance, so he put a brutal amount of muscle tension there enduring that, right? Yeah, totally, imagine. But yes, look, for example, if you want to put the map and I wanted to show you something from Uruguay because, since it's the first time we're doing this in this software, I don't know if you can share it, but if not, I'll put it on for you. That's it.
There you have it. Yes, I think it's going to be easy because I'm going to put it on for you.
This was also to answer the question, Ale, about the wind direction and the ground there, if you go to where we were in La Paloma, there in Uruguay.
After having done this tour, obviously because of my personality, I said, well, ah, let's try to do more.
You can bring it closer, Osema. A little bit more. Bring it closer.
So, uh, come over there. Look where it says the dove. Up here.
Up there. So now I went up a little more towards the a little more a little more a little more.
Cabo Polonio to the border with Brazil. There's the Chui bar, huh? That's it. A little further to the left, further down. You saw it there, the border is right there. Barrado Chui. Yes, right there. So, the next goal was to do this route from Barra del Chui to Punta del Este, which was basically twice the distance or a little more.
And what I was looking for here was a wind that rotates during the day, a wind that comes more from the northeast and then turns towards the east so that you see the coast goes in like that.
Yes, yes. that takes you out and then puts you back in, right? Sure, sure, exactly.
Because otherwise you have to come here, right?
Of course not. Yes, there you are. You have to work hard to stay at sea, huh?
44 km, dude. Phew!
No, yes, but anyway, the route I ended up taking, the goal was to get to Punta del Este, but as I said, the wind was more or less okay for what I wanted to do that day.
And what happened was that at one point a cloud came that killed the wind and there was a lot of wind directly from the east.
So, in that area where it says where you are there at the beacon bar, right, uh, the east wind pulled me towards the coast and I couldn't get past this cape here.
The corporal.
Clear. Uh, so that's when I had to quit. Yeah, so that can happen, that suddenly the ground absorbs the wind energy and you have to give up sometimes because you can't keep opening yourself up to the outside, basically. But anyway, I ended up doing those 84 km which was pure effort and nothing, another time I'll have to try again.
Yes, I've also heard another one from you, uh, which is, I don't know if it's true, but this, Punta del Este and going to cross the river, right?
Yes, that's a crazy idea, a lovely crazy idea that I'd love to do, but well, I have to organize it well with studying. I also have to study better that strait because you know how sometimes the winds at sea are open, it makes a shift, you know? You do some weird things, so from what I see it could work, I have to study it better, but the one I really want to do and that I was about to do the other day, but at the last minute the guy who was going to drive the boat got scared and didn't want to do it. The night before it was from Buenos Aires to Colonia, which you can clearly see is a fairly short strait, huh? But anyway, with Buenos Aires, Buenos Aires, of course, that's a short strait, uh, but conceptually it was good to cross the Río de la Plata because it's a strait that we always cross by ferry, uh, and logistically it was quite simple, you just had to do the paperwork in Buenos Aires, like notify the Coast Guard, and then once you arrived in Colonia, you get to Colonia, then board the ship and go through immigration, which wasn't a problem, but anyway, [laughs] is there ship traffic in that area or is there quite a lot? Yes. Uh, and what wind, Franky?
The same one, right? East.
Uh, well, what I really wanted to do the other day was a wind that came completely from the west, so it started in Buenos Aires and ended in Colonia. But it can also be done with a south wind from the east.
So you have to start in La Plata, where you can see the money, and end up in Colonia.
Well, those are the two most logical possibilities, it seems to me.
But are these winds of a local thermal wind, or is it or does it have to be a storm wind?
Well, this wind that was blowing from the west the other day was a pampero wind coming from the land. Mm.
Okay, so obviously at first you don't have much undulation because it comes from the ground, so little by little it gets better. But that day, that very day a friend happened to be traveling on the ferry and sent me some videos of how the river was, and it was perfect for doing it. So, I guess I'll have to get her there to take me, because I can't do it alone. I mean, I could, but it's too risky. Anything happens to me and you're there. Yes. You're very far away. Yes, yes.
You're in the middle of a body of water and it would be quite irresponsible, because when you're skirting the coast you always have a way out.
Hey, what about friends and local friends who might come with you? In fact, there in Buenos Aires are the Saudidet brothers, who are very good at IQFoil and well, they are lifelong sailors, they are Olympians and so on. Well, actually one of the brothers won a gold medal at the Youth Olympics in Winserf, so they're very experienced people, and they learned the downwind foiling thing very quickly with their experience, and we did several very interesting trips with them around Buenos Aires, Uruguay, Mar del Plata, and other places.
[laughs] The other day on the previous program with the guest who also trained with the Ikufoil guys, he said, he says, if they could they would burn the material, [laughs] they would burn the IQ foil and nothing but foil or winfoil or Claro would be made. Yes, yes, [laughs] already. But they're already involved.
But of course, the kids have to put in a lot of hours.
They are involved in the competition. Clear. And that's it. And Franky, I've also read that you 've competed, have you ever been to a race or not? In Down Foil I'm following the world circuit, which is like a new format that they started now, which was started by James Casy, called the Downwind Foil World Tour.
He's Australian, isn't he?
Yes. Yes, and basically there are six main races, those six races are what give you a ranking, those are the two Hawaiian races, the important ones, Molo, I mean, Maia Molokai and Molokai Aaju. Then in France there are the races in Santropé and the one in Crosón there in Brittany. Then the other two are from Australia, from West Australia.
[clears throat] those are the ones, there are those six, those are the ones that give points for the ranking and then there are several races that are regional but that do not give points for the ranking yet. Has any already been held, has it started, or not yet?
Uh, yes, yes. Last year I did the one about Maia, the one about Maia Molokai, right? And it was great, I mean, it was like my first year doing downwind and competing, and as they tell you a bit, right? Yes, what's good is that there are several races before those big ones, like more local ones, so they get you a bit into the rhythm of the race.
And well, nothing, the atmosphere is amazing. You're there at the starting line with all these monsters, with Kenny, with everyone, you see, the well-known names, and they're all right there next to you, huh?
So [laughs] they're either very stressed about winning the race or they're going to enjoy it.
No, well, those who are there to compete are fully competing until the last moment, trying different tails, different settings on the foil, whatever, sanding the foils, sanding the foils, they are going all out. And yes, well, there's quite a bit of competition, but it's great, that 's the goal. Uh, so nothing, those races, there's a race that's uh the Imua race uh that's there in Maui. Another race that's in Oaju, uh, that's another local race there too. And then there are the island crossings, and it's crazy to be there at the start, see an island that's 45 km away, and have to cross over there, and at the same time be in the race.
But anyway, I took it more as a first experience, obviously I went to give it my all, but well, I went relatively well for the experience I had and it was great.
Then two days later it was the other one, the other crossing which was Molokai to Oaju, which I had a lot of respect for, and I still didn't feel I had the experience to do it. So I finished filming a colleague from the boat, and I think that was great to also learn a little about how that channel works, and it's crazy, that channel has energy coming from the right side, from the left side, that converges. Uh, you have to be very, very sharp. Uh, and that's it, those are the two races I did in Hawaii.
After that I did the ones in France too, which were amazing, and then here in Malibu I organized a race that was really great, it was a regional race for the community, but people came from Hawaii, from Australia, in fact, the guy from Edo Tanas showed up and obviously won the prize, but anyway, it was wonderful to be able to organize a race and bring the community together here. That's great, that's cool, that's cool. Hey, and I was going to ask you, did you get the right equipment for the Moloco race?
From the maoloca. Yes, yes, yes, yes.
Well, at that time I was riding with F1 and I was really undecided because I had the Eagle X1000 and the Momentum 816 and I was n't completely convinced by the Momentum 816. I felt like I wasn't going that much faster than the X1000, you know? And well, it's a foil where to really get the most out of it you have to be pretty high up on the mast, in my opinion, and the acceleration isn't as pronounced as the Eagle X line. So at the last minute I sold that Momentum and got an Eagle X, but a smaller one, an 800. And luckily, because that foil was perfect for that day. It's got speed, you see? It doesn't feel like it doesn't have much of a speed limit. You can give it a push and press it and get it on track. So it was a good decision to use foil that day.
The other day I was able to test it when you, when you refer to speed, mean that even though the Bs are very small, they accelerate a lot, right? That's what you mean, right? Well, it depends because, as I said, if there's a swell, which are those fast waves, I define it as the ability to go at the same speed as those bumps, those fast waves, without having to exert yourself like crazy. But yes, it also has that characteristic that if you can be on one wavelength and project yourself towards the next, that also defines it, you know? The speed characteristics of the foil.
I think [clears throat] Ale, the issue is efficiency, man. I did n't want to mention that the other day there was an Astron test and he brought the UHU1s, right?
Uha, UH UHA UHA and I tried [clears throat] I tried 600 9 700 and let's go I tried it with Winfil, right? But anyway, I went for it, I decided to test Danwin's capabilities and I was truly amazed, but of course, it's limited, isn't it? I don't know how it would be in Yes, he does n't speak, Franky, no, it's not crazy how any change you make to your kit makes a huge difference. same. Yesterday I was with my colleagues and I think we spent 20 minutes talking about the glue we use, uh, whether it was the 100, the 115, the one that was more high aspect of the glue, uh, and so on. And I swear to you, that makes a huge difference.
Now I'm with KT now, so I'm also changing the shims, in English they're called shims.
The shims.
Uh, [clears throat] in Spanish I don't know what the word would be either. Well, we call them shims, but whatever. Yes, yes, yes. The little plastic pieces you can put on the tail to either take off the lift or add lift, and well, you know, with each setting you put on it you can, you know, make the front foot more, the back foot more. Uh, it's that wedge. I have the wedge translation.
The wedges.
Perfect. Cradle. [laughs] Yes.
Well, yes, I've been dealing with that issue from the beginning because Armstrong has a different approach to boards compared to other brands, and I've always said that boards from other brands weren't good enough for me, you know? And I had to adjust a lot, you know? And finally, now that I'm into the dangwin thing, it also changes a lot because the weight you carry in the front and the back changes the dynamics of how you want your foil to go in the water, right? Yes.
And knowing that you don't have traction from the kite either, well, it's what you say, you can spend hours arguing and going crazy. I wanted to ask you how you are with KT.
I recently listened to the podcast of Kane from The Wild, or I don't know how to pronounce it. Yes, from one he did with some English guys, I think they are, and of course, he was talking, giving a lot of tips on Dwin and Pumping, because I think he is or has been a champion of, I don't know, Pumping or some other circuit, but anyway, the guy is really good at it and well, they were already with the hollow boards, so I wanted to ask if you've gotten one or if you've already tried it.
Yes, yes. In fact, the board I have is the hollow one, uh, the Crossing 84. It's 84 106 L, hollow, as I said, and 175 wide.
Share it, Osema, and we'll see it. I do n't know if I can find that quickly. Let's see. Yes, catalog. They have the same system with the drain plug and all that.
Yes, exactly. Kate Dragonfly, uh, Hollow, if you type it, it will appear.
Yes, here's one.
And how has that change of hollow boards been? Uh, uh, I actually had the normal Dragonfly carbon one which was really good. And you're welcome, I tried the hollow one one day and I really liked it, because it's much lighter. Uh, it's also lighter when you're paddling and you lift the foil, it lifts more easily and once you're up foiling, uh, you feel like you have less board underneath and you feel a bit more agile when pumping, apart from the price, there's no other downside.
Ah, of course, of course, of course, of course. That's it, that 's the hollow. Yes, perfect.
Exact. It has a plug in the back, so the good thing about this board is that if you suddenly make a hole in it, whatever, and water gets in, it's very easy to fix because you can, I mean, fix the hole, whatever, and you can get the water out with the plug, unlike with a carbon board. If water gets in, you have to go through a whole drying process and leave it for a week or several weeks so that the water drains out.
And in terms of weight, we could be talking about maybe 2 kg less than the previous one, or, uh, it says 4 kg 49. But, uh, the one I had done, uh, how much is it, how much was it, four and a bit too, uh, the custom ones, you know? I don't know, I thought these were going to be almost three.
You, uh, you're talking about having a custom KT made.
No, I didn't get one, it's a 7 and a half, it 's not the same. Okay, this 8 cu is much bigger.
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. No, yes. Likewise, I mean, for example, at KT Maui, if you order a custom board, they tend to be lighter than production boards because of the lamination and construction. Obviously, custom boards are a bit more fragile than production boards, but a production board is solid, while a hollow board feels very different.
I was able to try one of the Winfil Hueca ones another day and to be honest, I was a little amazed.
Ah, agility, especially the agility he has.
And another thing that Kind the Will said was that the rigidity for the dwing gave a lot of transmission to the pumping and continuity. I don't know if that's noticeable too.
Yes, absolutely. When you're out on the pampas, you want to transmit 100% of your energy to the foil. And if you have a mast or foil that's a little flexible, you'll be losing energy. And so the issue of rigidity is extremely important to convey everything you want. And in fact, in that podcast, Kan talks about where he puts his feet, [clears throat] which is something I learned from him and I'm practicing it more, the issue of being well centered on the board, because when you're centered on the board you can push directly down versus if your feet are offset or crossed, you're kind of compensating a bit with the weight and you don't finish transmitting.
All the energy is downwards and that's what changes when you can stay high on the mast and at the same time give it those touches of energy with the stand not too far away, but the stand where it has to be.
Clear. Yes.
And yes, I was saying the same thing, and I was saying something else that I really liked, which I'm trying to practice, which is to keep the shoulder line a little more in line with the board, not to be so rotated, you know? Otherwise, and the truth is that when you manage to do it, you forget, but you have to focus on the placement. When you manage to do it, the transmission is incredible. I mean, suddenly I'm like, "Wow, I'll get it out, I'm up again in no time, you know?
Totally, totally, totally.
The truth is, yes, the mast height control is something Kan is the king of, you know? And that's an amazing difference it makes because you can be out there with a bigger foil and you can do it, you can make it go much more efficiently and faster if you're high on the mast. That's incredible. You mentioned it yourself in an interview, or I read it somewhere, that it really changes things if you manage to maintain that height, it totally changes your dwing, right? And you start to perform better, because the idea is to always keep it on the edge of the tail or the next crash. That would be ideal, but the thing is, if you always keep it on the edge of collapse, very possibly at some point it will come out of the water and you'll fall. What's good about that happening? Because you start to identify even which That's your limit, right? And when you identify your limit, you can try to push it as far as possible.
Look at the Kanil in this video, almost out of the water. Yes, yes, yes.
Now, I don't know. Well, the one I use was designed to get out of the water, and when they're about to come out, they warn you, I don't know if they give you that feeling, right? Like, "No, I don't want to come out."
Yes, yes, yes.
They've changed a bit. Yes, let's say that's something I talk about a lot. Armstrong at Winfoil had foils that were made to be able to enter and exit the water very easily, and now the new ones from Winfoil and Lenolas are tucked in, I mean, like Duoton and other brands, it's like total security, you know? They're aiming for that, and it's cool on one hand, but on the other, I think you lose some of the sensations you used to have, okay? That's just my opinion, that you lose a bit of that moment of entering, exiting, and being able to play with the surface. So, I don't see it the same way now.
And you're also using KT in Fil.
Yes, yes, yes, yes.
We can take a look if you want.
Yes, I was testing the new Solus, which are the new racing foils, the ones I'm going to start using now. Right now, I'm using the Atlas until the Solus arrive, but the Solus is the foil I'm going to use, ultimately, to see if you can find it. Let's see, no, I don't think it's in Wings yet. Let's see, it says Wings.
I don't think it's there yet. There it is, look. Yes, here it is.
Uh, coming soon.
Coming soon. [laughs] Well, uh, there it is.
Yes, I figured it wasn't there. Right now, I'm using the Atlas, which are foils that are a bit more, uh, how to say it? More user- friendly, easier. They're not the fastest, but they're foils that when there's If you need little energy or want to fly relaxed, these are really good. I could n't find anything like it. What they have is a lot of lift because of their CBER. It's like the plane has, you know?
When planes have the flaps up, it's like having the flaps up all the time. So you can get up high on the mast and the foil keeps going with minimal energy. It's pretty crazy, but they're not racing foils, those would be low aspect ratio foils, right? For Danwin.
For Danwin, yes, they are rather low because today they're at 14, some even up to 17, I don't know, but they are very fun and relaxed foils. For me, it's a foil for flying relaxed.
You want something more aggressive, right?
Well, for now, for racing, yes, I'm looking for the Solus, which has an aspect ratio of 14 and doesn't have this flap, this CBER, in fact, it has a reverse CBER, it has a CBER towards Up above the foil to match the tail, uh, so that allows you to use very small tails too, uh, it's a really nice feeling how it maintains speed and when you're high on the mast it accelerates, and especially now with the new mast, which is called Apex, which has a sort of B shape that starts out quite thick, I mean, it starts out like a normal mast and then when you get close to the foil it becomes much thinner. Uh, as an insult, there it is, as an insult, but [laughs] we're left with... We have these people from Astron with a new mast that's the same for everyone, it's common to everything, man.
Yeah, but I'm telling you this because I didn't notice much, but I suppose, of course, it'll have its moment.
Astron has released three new models. [clears throat] Anyway, it'll be the end, I mean, too much. Okay, let's see, I'm going to remove this from here.
No, but it's interesting.
Yes, how we got... I remember when we did the interview with Fred Bonet, who told us he liked the 9 or 10 aspect ratios, that the big ones were kind of too technical, you were saying. And it's another style, uh, it has less, in my opinion, at least from what I've tried, with a higher aspect ratio. The acceleration starts to decrease because you have less platform, since they're so thin, when you push down it tends to sink more instead of pushing forward.
So, with a slightly lower aspect ratio, when you push hard it projects you further forward. However, higher aspect ratios maintain high speed for longer, right?
So, for a given condition, that 's my choice here. I mean, I 'm going for that here because there aren't any short-period waves, so I don't know if I've made a mistake, but I'll keep trying.
You have to try it in the end. Do you remind me what your conditions were like? They were long-period waves.
Here we have periods, the minimum we can catch will be 11 or 12 seconds, and they're hours with a lot of energy almost all the time. year.
And but they're waves, they're waves, or are you talking about for Danwin?
For Danwin. Uh, so you have a super long, fast, long, fast sea swell. And yes, for me, then you try to combine when there are winds from directions that don't fetch, right? For example, because here any wind that comes from the northwest means you have the whole Atlantic, so there's a swell right away. Right.
Okay, so you need the land wind, a bit from the northeast or east that don't fetch, but there's always a swell, I mean, you have the east wind and the other one from the groundswell. So, of course, it's difficult to get good conditions that work out, but well, we're working on it. Tomorrow, tomorrow we're going to a place where there are northeasterly winds and it's one of the best places around here, but we have to go further out, about 200 km further towards Santander, which is when that wind picks up some energy and accelerates, okay? Perfect.
A wind that comes from, sort of, France, you know? And it comes in much better if you already know that in Galicia there are those areas there, and in Uruguay there will also be more of a southerly wind, right? That comes from below.
Yes, well, when there's a southerly wind, which is often a more stormy wind, the southerly wind comes to you too, but it's harder to make downwinders there because it goes more directly to the coast, right?
So, well, you have to wait for the wind that's more suitable. But well, I've also done reverse downwinders, I mean, you can do it, but it's not a downwinder you enjoy, you're more in survival mode and trying to get there, basically. [laughs] Uh, it's a different style. But well, for your condition, Josema, it sounds to me like the higher aspect ratio frames are where you can get the most out of those faster grandspins, but well, it's a matter of trying and seeing what each person likes.
I tried with a A shorter Asperrato works well, but as soon as there's energy, you can lower it, but if you're like you said, super tight, and then my friends' technique is this: they put more surface area in, so they do n't even lower the sail, they almost lower it a little and wait for the one behind, and so on, all the time.
Perfect.
So, let's see if now with an Asper Radius 13.5 or 13, I don't know what it is.
It's the new Astron one. And we'll see, because I heard very good things about the Codes. The Codes are very well known here, foils, and people in the Mediterranean use them a lot, and they have several models, like the 860, I think it's R or something like that, which is very friendly, and they also have an Asper Radius Alto 126 or something like that, but people use it a lot in the Mediterranean, and well, the issue of equipment is clearly important, I mean, you can't just tell someone, "No, take whatever you have," because many people, I mean, it's not... Let him try it, he wants the same feeling. I honestly think it's not as easy as just taking your Winfoil and going downwind 100%, and that's why I think a lot of people don't even try it, because you have to take the leap of buying more gear and fine-tuning things a bit, right?
For example, everyone says you have to make the mainmast shorter than in Winfoil, right?
10C or something like that.
So, what's the big deal? Another mast.
Yeah, [laughs] what length of mainmast do you use?
Uh, now I'm going to be using 77. I've always used between 75 and 80. I've used an 85mm mast at some point, and it's true that for downwind it's better shorter because, firstly, it's easier to lift because you have less material in the water, less drag, and once you're foiling it's easier to keep it high and easier to have less material in the water. Uh, but well, since you're using an 85mm foil you can turn a bit tighter and do more fun things, but for racing And fast and all that. A shorter foil always helps. Look, I mean the mast. I really follow, well, I really watch, a guy who's from Hood River, McFlowy, I don't know if you've heard of him or anything, the one who always wears a hat. Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course. He's the dream Danwin for us, the one we'll never have here, which is, short period, super hollow, super, and you see him with foils, like the ones I have. He's got 780s, 880s, Asper radius 10, and they're foils that have quite a bit of drag and come out really well, but they're not fast foils. But of course, he can do that, I mean, he wants to dig there in Hood River. The thing is, it's a pretty particular condition because, uh, uh, those waves are very slow, they do n't seem like it, but you have a lot of current against you, and that's why the wave gets sucked so much in that halfpipe. Uh, so you actually need a slower foil there because it doesn't make sense to go With a fast foil, because otherwise you can't really enjoy the wave because it's quite slow, and also to be able to carve nicely. That's the beauty of the Hood River wave, being able to go at the speed of the wave you 're riding and carve, basically. Let's see if I can post something. Let's see, I have this guy here. Of course, yeah. Ale, you haven't seen him.
Yes, yes, yes, I've seen him. Yes. I mean, he goes foiling, so they don't have to go fast, but of course, the conditions are what you're saying. I think that, well, a trip there has to be made. Have you been there yet, Franky?
Yes, I've been, I've been. I took Good Morning. And what happens to me with Hood River, I haven't done the, no, I haven't had the chance to go to Rufus, which is the area where it's supposedly amazing, right? But yes, well, I did the classic one, which is there in The Gorge and in Suell City, and it's amazing. The thing is The good thing is that it's short, it's nothing, it's just 2 km of area where that wave is really good, right there at the Puntumbrás breakwater, you know? Right?
It's not that you don't want to do Danwin in Huelva, but I can already see it. [laughs] The conditions are there.
Anyway. Uh, there's something else that also blows my mind, which is that Franky moment when you're riding on the ground and you move forward at the same speed as the ground and it's like you're standing still.
You know what? I don't know, you just do n't experience that with Winfall. And I think at the beginning you're just focused on riding the wave, you know? Riding it, riding it. And when suddenly you synchronize with the ground and you say, "Holy crap, and going all over the place is like, ' That's cool,' you know?" " No way." Yes, yes. Being at the same speed and standing still is spectacular. That's why I was going to say that, well, even though this Dwing is short, with the current against you and all, it'll feel a bit longer, right? Yes, that's it, that's for sure because then you see the stats on the watch, how long it took you to do a kilometer, and it's much slower than somewhere else, like the sea or whatever.
Uh, I remember I used to do kilometers, and one day I did a test to see how slow I could go there in Hood River, uh, without putting the foil down, obviously, and I think I was doing kilometers in 3 minutes 40 seconds, something like that.
Imagine that, huh?
So, everyone's seeing how fast they can do a kilometer, and I was there seeing how slow I could do it, [laughs] but it was a lot of fun.
It would be cool to take a trip, we have to take a trip, Alex, but anyway.
Yes, right? Another spectacular place, Patagonia in Argentina, a little bit of cold water, but for me it seemed superior to Hood River, uh, well, in Bariloche, it wasn't, Bariloche is the lake, right? Uh, Bariloche is the city and the lake is Lake Nagelwapi. Uh, if you want, just put Lake Nagelwapi on the map.
Uh, but we went to... How do I spell it? We were with Francesco talking? A program with Nael.
Nahuel.
Ah, Nahuel is on, dude.
Here's one of yours.
Ah, actually, that's one of my videos. Yeah, right. That's great.
It's just that you have everything on Instagram, man. You have to... On YouTube you don't have anything. I'm just starting out on YouTube.
Well, at least to see them bigger and stuff, because a lot of people... the thing about sharing it on Instagram. Oh, crap, did I miss it or what?
No, there it is. I did it with Paraing because I was, I wanted to go where the good bumps were. And look at the conditions we had.
Wow.
Uh, nothing. Uh, we went there in December with the F1 team.
I put together the production for their video, which is called "Libre." I don't know if you've seen it, but it's on YouTube. It's " Fan Libre," and it was all filmed there in Bariloche. Well, we had spectacular conditions.
Yes, I knew about the video, but I haven't seen it yet.
Yes, it's there. When you were producing, you were with their team or what?
Right, yes, they hired me. I mean, I pitched them the idea when I met them in Hood River last year about going to film there in Patagonia, Bariloche. They had a desire to do something in that area.
So, I put together the budget for them, organizing all the logistics and accommodation, getting them a local guide, and making the most of it.
to this area, which is very beautiful. And well, we got together there with the team and filmed it around Nabel Guapi, so the conditions were good, right?
Yes, yes, they were. We had a bit of everything. We had some because they were also filming; we had to film for the pump foils and the docarts and everything. So we had days of glass, we had days of strong winds, and others with light winds because we also filmed the Light Wind wings, the Light Wind foils, and everything.
So, you have to see it calmly, sit down, and yes, you have to see it because it's also long, it looks really cool. I want to go, I really want to go there, man. I have a... Well, it's my wife's cousin who recently moved to Bariloche with his wife, who was from Argentina.
Oh, look.
And I'm going to make up a visit when I can, man. But when you go, take a wetsuit [laughs] more or less. No, no, Not really. There we were with a 43, and it was December, and then I came back in February, I think it was March, and there I was with a 32, and honestly, I was perfect. He already told us, but Keji was there, right?
Yes, Keji was there, Chris McDonald's, uh, Jul Cholé, and Marcela. Chris McDonald's flying around at 200 meters [laughs].
He's crazy, Cris is crazy.
God, man.
The wind there was. There were at least 60 knots, right?
[laughs] Yeah, well, we had days of, yes, easily 55 knots.
Wow, that's great, that's so cool, man, that you went there and that you made that connection, right? With the area, man. Yes, it was spectacular because, well, I've always worked in advertising production and stuff, and I'm getting more and more into the world of foiling, and well, now I'm trying to do more Of these things, so now with KT, the idea is also to start putting together content, well, about their riders, their products, and so on, and continue doing this kind of thing. That's what excites me the most, combining it all, right? And getting into working in your profession with companies in the sector, right? In this sector, let's say.
Yes, that would be a huge success, which is what I 'm aiming for [laughs] and what I'm slowly starting to achieve.
So, very good.
I mean, well, I don't know if we've gone off-topic as usual, but I don't care. The thing is, I had a maneuver noted down because we often talk about maneuvers, and since you're here, I can tell you several, but I think there's one that always drives people a little crazy, which is the one where you launch flat with the paddle, Franky.
You know, people are obsessed with that, or [sighs] a lot of people are like, "I have to get it, I have to get it, damn it!"
And well, how much is there There?
You're not explaining it now, but how much of it is physical fitness and stuff? Now you tell us, how did you start, like, how did you do your first takeoff, and what equipment and all that, right? What kind of advice could you give to someone who wants to do that? When I started downwind paddling, I was using an F1 foil from the Seven Sis 1500 e, and that was the foil I used for my first downwind runs, like, maintaining flight and going from point A to point B. But I hadn't learned to take off on flat water. I mean, I learned first in wind waves and also in the waves. And then, what happened? I think one day I changed boards. I got this KT board, thinner and a little longer, the 84 by 17, but it wasn't the hollow one, it was the carbon one. And right then, I think, I started to be able to Taking off. It was crazy because I was always so close with my other board, the 1500, and I just couldn't quite get it up completely. As soon as I changed boards, it was like I got it on the first try. So that tells you that the material makes a huge difference. But yeah, a long, thin board. And if you're using a big foil, I think it's much more about technique than strength, because if you have good technique, those big foils are very easy to lift.
And then, well, obviously when you start wanting to lift smaller foils, which is what I always try to do and practice is to lift smaller foils, so that I have the confidence to know that I can lift them in most types of downwind conditions.
You're always looking for the limit, right? The smallest and easiest, let's say.
Yeah, totally, totally. So, I sold everything I had because I'm with KT, but now I've been practicing a lot with the... IGLX800 lifting that foil. Uh, and well, nothing, uh, it's a good exercise and keeps you active.
Any tips? Did you mention a board? Well, I'd say a light board, but not too heavy, right? Because I remember trying it with one we made ourselves that was almost 9 kg and, well, I don't know, it was hard, hard, hard, of course.
And then positioning, people tell you, well, that positioning the mast further forward or even adding wedges can help. Adding a wedge for a positive or negative rate on the mast, right? That, well, that depends a lot, you see? On each person, because some people feel the foil more with their back foot, others prefer their front foot, others prefer it more centered. If you put it too far forward, uh, you get that initial lift, uh, that comes first, but then it's hard to maintain because you stall, you stall, you go up, but you stall. It's more efficient to have a position where it's more Gradual lift.
Um, obviously if you're too far back you'll never lift off, so it's really about trying things out. Um, when I go out I always change positions to see what each one feels like.
And well, the paddling should always be forward, short strokes, pumping, pumping is synchronized, it's all about synchronizing the pumping with the moment of the paddle's impulse, I mean, or something like that, right?
Right. Yes. Ideally the strokes have to be, you know, very short and forward of the board, and you have to synchronize that between the stroke, adding a pump with your legs as you're paddling, and you'll find the rhythm, and well, little by little you get the board to have some volume so that when you pump it, it gives you upward momentum, right? Yes, that it's the right volume, because if it's too small obviously it won't sink, but if it's too Well, if you have too much buoyancy, sometimes it can work against you.
You have to find that sweet spot that keeps you going and stable, but you know, being on a boat... [laughs] You have to adjust all the parameters.
Of course, absolutely. But it is good training and it's good to know how to do it, but it's not essential for downwind riding. Some people say, "I want to learn how to flat out before trying a downwind ride," and I think they're wrong.
Obviously not.
And then there's the physical aspect, cardio, strength, what's the key factor?
Well, it depends on the foil. Obviously, if you're using a small foil, you need a bit more stamina and it takes more effort, but with a big foil, not really. I wanted to show you a video from a friend here who's the real foiler of the area. He's making and posting videos all day long, and he's from my area, and he did it with the board I had to... It's right here, you can see it, but of course, he did it with a CUS, I think, with one of those, a Gong 2000, right? Right, there it is.
Perfect.
There's the guy. There's the guy.
Perfect.
No, he's doing it with an Indiana. And he's doing it in the river here in San Sebastián, right?
Yes, I think so. These stairs.
Yes, they're from there.
But we've been at this for a year now, right? I mean, he bought me that board because he was using inflatables and he said, "Wow, I'm going to buy a rigid one to see if I do better with this." And the truth is, it's Mollón's idea. He's always joking around, you know, and posting things.
Of course. And it's good, it's good, it's good to know that you can do it, it gives you a bit of confidence for any situation, to avoid going wrong, right?
If I tried to lift it with one and I lifted it and what You were saying it was stalling because he put it too far forward or something, and I saw it going up, but then boom. Okay, it probably wasn't getting enough speed to keep pumping, so, sure, sure, sure. Great. And by the way, are you guys trying it out or not?
Yes, yes, me too. Well, Ale, no, but I am. I already have a 3-meter, a 4-meter, and a 4-meter, and my goal is to try it out in a couple of months. I have the board, and I think it's suitable, but I 'm eager. I'm eager because if we do a lot of it, I do a lot of sub-filters in waves, and I'm pretty good at that, more or less, and I think it could be the next step.
It's a super tool, a safety complement, and suddenly, on a day that's a bit onshore, you can go out and do edges and short downwins, or even do a full downwin with a shortboard, it's spectacular.
Now I'm starting to ride the BRMs, the new ones, the S3s that they sent me, so they're... They're great.
Uh, I used them for the first time this weekend. They have a handle, you know? I don't know if you saw it.
I'm going to put it on and see if I can.
That really interests him, Sema, man. I do have a master's degree, I 'm doing it in Paragwing. Which [laughs] for BRM. Which one? The S3. Yes, S3. Yes. Let's see if you can come down here.
Of course, the ones that are single skin, right? Franky, for dwindling, right? Everything's better, right?
Yes, but no. I mean, the double skin thing is that it's a little bigger when you pack it away, but it's not a big deal, it's clearly a novelty, right?
Wow. Yes, yes, yes. This handle and the way you're designing this paragwing is really good because the thing about paragwing is that if you don't have a harness, you know, it rips your arms off when there's strong wind or when there's wind, period. And to luff without a harness, a harness is... It's tough. It's really difficult. Lately, with the harness, you can be more or less okay, but with this handle, it's much more of a wing-filtering feel, you know?
With wing-filtering, you can unwind much more easily, and with this handle, you know, with your whole hand instead of just your fingers, you have a handle to unwind much more easily. So, you almost don't even need a harness with this set, with this handle. Basically, I still use it, I keep it there just in case, but in the end, I keep it on the harness line, and many times, well, this weekend was the first time I really overused it, but it didn't seem more comfortable to have the handle and control it there than using the harness.
What size did you try?
Uh, this weekend I tried the 3.4 and the 4.2, and actually, the 5.3 arrived yesterday.
Okay, well, I could ask you 1000 questions, but well, I don't want to [laughs]. I mean, the problem is What we also have here is that the wind is super gusty, super gusty, I mean, I almost never have a steady wind. So, you have to go with a paraglider that's light, but that pulls, because we don't have strong winds either. I mean, sure, we have wind, okay, 15 to 18 knots here and there, but it can drop to 10 or so you have to be able to get out and, well, anyway.
These are Hawaiian, right? The BRMs, right? They're very well known, and there are fewer of them here.
More European brands have arrived here, especially. The Australian ones, the Flow ones too.
And of course, F One, I saw you were also using the Quest, right? In the video.
Yes, I had to buy the Freet, the FRE, which is very good, but it's more of a standard paraglider, but anyway, it works perfectly, it pivots and does everything it's supposed to do. But anyway, This one seemed to have a lot of interesting qualities regarding the lines. They've changed them. Right, they've put two lines in the handle area.
Right, it's super cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like the bar of a Kai, man.
It changed, it changed quite a bit. It's different. It's different.
Well, I mean, it has to be symmetrical, but it's not symmetrical. I mean, they're doing that to mess around, right? That's what I think it's missing, because you know, when you pump a winch, you get a response. With the Paragn, when you pump this, what it does is give you a response when you pump with your hand.
The material is super light, so it's very easy to store. And with the added handle, you have a way to deflate it.
So it ends up being basically a kind of wingfil feel that you can store. Basically, wow, we're becoming distributors, Ale, for BRM, which I think [laughs] looks really cool, huh?
Yeah, because I mostly see it as simple, I mean, very simple, and then what you're saying there, look, look at the photo, look at photo number one. You can see perfectly the lines, which are single lines that then, when the pairing approaches, become several, you see? So, that's what gives you that feeling that you 're pushing and it pumps you up.
Yes, of course, because the pumping of the others, of most Parainm, is a feeling that, coming from winfil, you're like, "I can't pull back, huh?" It's not something you can do, but it's more subtle, right? Let's say, but you do miss that to get going, because, of course, you say, "Damn, if I have a win here, I give it two pulls and I'm up." And with this, you have to play with the speed, right? A little bit of foiling too, to be able to come out a little differently, right? Anyway.
Right. Perfect. Yes, yes, yes. Well, this one, so, nothing, no News from the world of Paragwin: this Paragwin is sold out, and we're going to become dealers.
Okay, Ale, from here.
And do you also have a Paragwin board, or do you use the downwind one?
Yes, I mean, I had a Paragwin board, which was kind of a hybrid between a Surfboard and a Para and a Wingfoil too. I sold it because, well, now that I'm switching to KT, they're sending me a new KT called the Ark, which I'll show you, it's also on the website. It won't say "coming soon."
Uh, I got the 68L one. I weigh about 85 kg. In fact, that's the board.
Yes, it's gone. But wait, I'll go look for it. Bardwin Pro Carbon.
That's right.
[clears throat] I chose this 68L one, which I think gives me a good range for different types of wind, and I think It's going to be amazing. I'll tell you when I get it, but I can already see it's going to be awesome, and it's also good for prone paddling, even though it's a bit long, or rather, a bit of a liter, uh, 58, so it's not that bad.
Uh, I like prone paddling, to be honest, with slightly longer boards. It has a really good paddling action and you can put in a million hours. I was about to go [clears throat] to Catel, but in the end we're trying out boards from a local shaper here, uh, from Barcelona, these guys from Jaley who already have several models, and in the end I got one because of the price, obviously also because Kate is worth it, but I wanted to show you what they have, it's just that they don't have it updated, but they have one from Paraguin, what a style. Well, the Nova is more of a Win.
The Supernova is the new one from Dwin.
Right.
And they don't even have the Atlas in their catalog, man. But I wanted to show it to you Because it's really popular. Let's see, they're inspired, Mariano, can you share it or what?
No, I'll show you here to see if you notice. Uh, this is it. Let's see if you can see it there.
Okay, I'll make it bigger because I can't see anything.
It's the flag of Uruguay, of Argentina. Do you see it says there? Exactly.
It's that one, man. Yes, it's that one. Look, no, I just saw a friend upload the photo today, huh?
And how did it get there?
Jali, of course, Jali.
J says, [laughs] that got there, it got there before... No, but that's in Fuerteventura or something like that or in the Canary Islands or what, huh? And no, I don't know where it is. I don't think it's in Europe, huh?
Ah, that's why, because I'm surprised the boards are getting there. Well, I don't know if they send them, but it looks like he made a design there with the Argentine flag.
Yes, very patriotic. Yes, Yes, very. Well, Argentina is very patriotic.
Yes, that's right. I absolutely love the design style, it's amazing. There are more photos if you scroll down, you can see the board much better.
Let's see. Duoton has also now entered the market with one and the weights and the weights are cool here too. 42 4 and a half. Phew. I like this. Yes, yes, yes.
Wow. Duotone, you want to advertise Duotone, but it's very similar to Che, eh, they all go for the same thing.
I don't want to say it, but I think a lot of people are kind of watching what Cat does, right? It's not because, and look, I don't take anything from Kat, but I think it's looked at a lot because, in fact, a friend of mine, Paradox Paradox SLS, do you want me to put it on?
Yes, put it on.
Paradox S LS. the one designed by the Spencers.
Look, there it is. I know the design has its style, but I don't know why they added that edge, man. Okay, let's look at it here where you say the back, right?
Both.
Goes.
Well, many tables have this, and the ones had it. Well, anyway, yes, it is used.
In the end we didn't deviate into a material session.
[laughs] We're going to ruin again, and come on, let's see what I have here in the script. I'm going to stop sharing and tell you, look, damn it, I could be talking about this. Well, anyway, everyone, everyone, everyone is a never-ending story. We know, and well, if you want, here I think the KT ones, the ones that are on the KT tariff, right? The people who sell KT. There is a distributor in Tarifa, I think they are the only ones. Does that sound familiar? Could be. There's one in France named Ciril, but then there's one in Tarifa, I think. In Spain, in Tarifa.
Clear. Anyway, that's all. I'm thinking about looking for the table.
Good.
Look, I had written down almost everything we talked about, actually.
Yeah, then there are the typical questions about where you think the sport is evolving a little bit, right? And where do you think this is headed in the coming years, in terms of equipment or in terms of the sport itself? So, if it's already clear that the downwing changes every year, I do n't know if it's stabilizing a bit in terms of equipment, uh, I don't know how you see the industry and what you think will happen in the coming years. Well, we haven't talked about the issue of assistance, which is also coming in strong.
Oh, yes, the engines and all that kind of stuff.
Yes, with the foil theme in Downwind, uh, I saw that, I mean, it was very noticeable that there was a strong tendency to raise the aspect ratio excessively, and I think that has already reached a limit because it seems to me that beyond that it starts to work against you a bit, uh? So it seems to me that they found the right point in the Aspect Ratio numbers. Well, then tables and all that, I think so too, but hey, who knows? They found a good balance there because, well, at one point they were starting to use 96-inch boards and so on, and now it seems to me that they found a good balance at 84-80 inches, but well, the issue of masts and rigidity and so on, that will continue to evolve no matter what. I believe that in 5 years we will be using things that we wouldn't have imagined today, for sure.
What I think was good is that Parawing has brought more people into Downhill because rowing has a slightly more difficult entry point, which I'm not saying replaces it at all because you can do downhill with rowing, you can do it in conditions that with Parawing you might not be able to, but yes, at least more people are getting into the sport for sure. For us it's important because with the Paraguin it allows you to go out to an area where you have BAMS, eh, but that's why I'm telling you that yes, it gives us [clears throat] many possibilities.
Basically, just because, because it gives us more confidence too, right? If we get stranded somewhere.
Total. So I've made you the guy who used to do Remo here, who's a guy who's super fit, who comes from surfing, who does surfoil and who's super good, eh, he's bought a paraglider and now he still uses the paddle, but with the conditions we have he also looks for many days when there are gusts and he can go out and then release and retrieve the paraglider. Sure, that's kind of the idea. Yes, yes. The truth is that, well, Ale, you left and came back, didn't you?
Yes, I had to do a little something.
You must have done something very, very well.
But no, yesterday, for example, we did a down paddle and we were walking along and suddenly we felt the wind coming in our faces and we looked at each other, what's happening? And sometimes here with the mountains and all, it happens that suddenly the wind makes these turns and suddenly we find ourselves with 14 knots head-on, and well, we were able to keep going with the remnant of waves left from the previous wind until it reached a point where the wind did whatever it wanted and we had to leave a little earlier, but well, it's, I mean, in that situation with the Parwin, yes, maybe you could go the other way or I don't know, do something, but if the wind dies, you have the oar which for me is safer. In that sense, I think you're one of the first I've seen. Well, there are more people who do it, but dating both things is n't usually publicized that much, right? I don't know, there are also a lot of videos about water conditions, and I think some people have good conditions to do it and others have to study them a bit.
Anyway, another thing I was going to ask you, which we haven't talked about in the conversation, is, for people who are starting out and such, the issue of safety and how to organize an outing, what do you usually take and how do you organize it? Yes, I mean, initially the most important thing for me seems to be having a charged phone and carrying it in a case. I have one here, I don't know if you can tell, a case that has everything included, it's waterproof, and I keep it inside my vest or in some pocket I have, whatever.
So, whatever happens to you, you can always call someone. And in fact, I also got coverage. I was going to ask you about coverage. Ah, uh, well, the places where we are generally have coverage, but if not, I also have a marine radio, a BHF, which if I'm going to do a longer trip and so on, I take it with me, because if you don't have coverage or whatever, you can call the coast guard. I recently got some headphones that are bone conduction, so you have them here and with one button you can activate City and you can call someone and have a smooth conversation even while you're walking or answer calls, which is great for having communication with someone. Obviously, bring water, food, and other things in case you're going to be paddling out for a while, in case something happens to you. Uh, and well, nothing, uh, those are the things I definitely take.
Water, food, and you're wearing your life jacket, right? I imagine to carry it, to load it, or yes, yes, if it's a very long day. Yes, yes, yes. I put it on depending on the route I'm going to take. But if it 's short and near the coast, you might not see it as so necessary, right? Indispensable and not dependent, I mean, it's always good to have it, but the truth is that if I'm near the coast and I'm tied to a board that floats, it's always good to put it on to have safety redundancies.
Security.
Yes, yes, yes.
And well, speaking of safety issues and such, we always ask the people who are in this section if it turned out badly for me, but the idea was that they would tell us something ridiculous or funny or a screw-up, let's say, a screw-up that they have had while practicing their sport, okay?
So, of course, since almost everyone who comes here is someone who has been doing things at sea, they end up telling dramatic stories. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. So I don't care what you want, but it's a section we call "the ruin," and it comes from something that happens to you that's a real bummer, and it's something that's always happened to all of us at some session or at some dangwin or at some point, you know? If you want to tell us something that's on your mind or that you remember, I'm sure something has happened to you, right? What happens from time to time is, you know, there are people out there on the coast who see people doing what we do, which is dwindling, but they don't know what the hell we're doing, and they get worried and think we're drifting away and they call the Coast Guard and they do a whole operation to find us. Hey, what happened to us now in Argentina?
We had actually finished the downwind run, it was great, but when we got back to our car we had four Coast Guard people waiting for us in the car we had left up there. Uh, you don't know how they grabbed us, they took us to the village to sign documents, they gave us a lesson, well, they also have a point, I don't know, that is that you have to give notice, uh, if it's in an area they want you to give notice, well, nothing, you give them notice. So now, I have their number in that area, so every time I go out I let them know and when I finish I let them know too. Uh, but yes, no, that day they locked us in a room at the prefecture and they didn't want to confiscate our materials and they took photos of all our materials. They took pictures of us like we were criminals, did you see? And [laughs] they signed us.
Yes, yes, yes. Total. So, that's it, we'll leave it there in their notebook.
If that happens in the Strait of Gibraltar, they'll open your hollow board, they'll open it to see if it has drugs inside, which is what I'm saying here.
Clear. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Yes, they tell me they have a lot of control in that area, right? Because you're 10 km from Morocco, right?
Yes, yes.
Tremendous.
Yes. And many things have already been invented. Well, the most normal thing is that ships pass by. Boats, boards, some will have passed. So, I don't know, maybe they'll catch you doing dwin and open the table.
[laughs] The reality is that it has also happened to us here in the north with the issue of captaincy. Because everything fits nicely in the hollow one, right?
In [laughs] the hollow one can fit whatever it wants.
There it is, hollow, in the holo. That's what I was thinking [laughs]. In that holo entrance, well, there's a Brazilian who I think was killed, or I don't know if he ended up spending his life in jail or if he was executed. In fact, I don't know if it was in Indonesia or somewhere else, but I had a board with drugs inside, and well, in those countries they don't mess around with those issues, they don't like it, they don't take it well. Yes, yes, yes.
No, not like that.
Well, I think the conversation was really good, man. We've been at it for an hour and a half now, and I know Alex is nervous because he's sure to have to listen. What do you have to do? " Put the kids out or your wife is at the door or my mother does things on a daily basis [laughs]." So, well, we're left with a lot of things you've told us about the material, and the truth is that now that you 're involved with Caté and all that, well, it's cool because it's first-hand stuff, and I'm really happy to hear it, and when you come to Europe, well, you know you have someone up north and someone else in the south.
Excellent. Let's see if we can open up this space here because we're still virgins here, but well, someone has to be the first.
Yes. And another thing we sometimes tell guests is that if they know someone who would like to talk on the podcast or who you think might be cool, well, at some point you can mention it to them or tell us and we'll try.
Yes, yes, yes. I'm going to now, I have several people I can recommend, so I'll send them a message and see if they can put something together. Actually, someone else had recommended me, hadn't they? Could be.
Yes, I think it was with Francesco or uh yes, I spoke to him through Instagram.
He's a boy who lives at the lake.
Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes. Yes, of course, they did talk about Kite or what they had talked about regarding Wingfil, I don't remember.
Yes, he came from kitesurfing and started it, and he was one of the first to start doing Winfil there on the lake.
Perfect, perfect, perfect. Excellent. Nothing, the chat was fun, so thank you very much.
Well, thanks to you.
Thanks to you, and well, see you around, like I said, whether you come here or if we decide to go there, okay? Yes, we are already in contact. We're in touch. We follow you on social media, okay? We follow you there, you have a lot of followers and we hope that, well, the people who watch or listen to the podcast will follow you, because it's super interesting, uh, where the dangwins also appear and some tricks that you talk about, like how to use them for wins, like how to use them with dangwin tables and other types of subfoil tricks, I think you also talk about, well, a lot of things. Completely.
Well, it was a pleasure meeting you all, so let's stay in touch and hopefully we'll see each other sometime. Okay, well then, we'll say goodbye. I'll click here to cut.
[laughs] Bye, big hug. Bye.
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