Ex-FDA chief says that hantavirus is "not going to spread like a pandemic virus like COVID did"

Added: 2026-05-11

[00:00:00]Passengers from the hantavirus-stricken cruise ship arrived this morning in Spain's Canary Islands where they were ferried onto land by small launch boats, then checked for symptoms before being flown on evacuation flights.

[00:00:14]Close to 150 people on board the ship and among them 17 of them Americans, they're going to be flown to a quarantine unit in Nebraska. No one so far is showing symptoms. For more now, we turn to former FDA Commissioner Dr. Scott Gottlieb. He also serves on the boards of Pfizer and United Healthcare.

[00:00:34]Welcome back, doctor.

[00:00:37]Thank you. So, there have been three deaths linked to the outbreak. Here in the US, there are six states monitoring potential exposure, all either linked to the ship itself or flights of people who had been on the ship. And then those 17 Americans, um do you agree with the CDC and the World Health Organization that the risk to public health is low?

[00:01:01]Yeah, I do agree with that. Uh we have to concede that there's still things we don't know about this virus. We haven't had to grapple with many outbreaks in the past. There's been two large outbreaks in Argentina, but based on that experience, what we know is that typically for transmission, you have to have close contact. We also know that people typically aren't contagious unless they have showing signs of of the infection itself in the what we call the prodromal phase where they start to have an onset of symptoms. And the progression from that onset of symptoms to um severe disease and in the these cases death is typically just days. This is a very aggressive virus. And so, based on what we know, the transmission risk is low. Now, that said, when you look back at the past experience, there are these outlier cases where there appears to have been transmission among people who weren't um perceived to be in close contact. And so, there are these um cases that we need to look at closely from the past experience and just be wary that perhaps there's things we don't know fully about this virus. I will say say we are nearing the end of the transmission window for the people who are being repatriated here in the US. And so, it looks to me like the last death on that cruise ship was May 2nd.

[00:02:05]That patient had an onset of symptoms on April 28th.

[00:02:08]If you believe that the incubation period is about 2 to 6 weeks, they'll be at the peak of that incubation cycle sometime point this week. So, I think we're about 2 weeks away from knowing whether or not there'll be additional cases that come from that initial outbreak on the cruise ship. So, a key moment here. I mean, the the WHO said it's very clear this is not COVID all over again. But, as you know, it has ignited some of the very same skeptics who during the pandemic really questioned our government institutions and the response. The WHO has said there is no research that ivermectin is an effective treatment for the virus. But, I'm wondering what you make of these calls for alternative treatments and resistance of government health advice.

[00:02:59]Look, I think we're going to be relitigating the consequences of COVID for a long time. And I think a lot of people who are in public health positions right now believe that their tenure and their appointment to these positions is a referendum on COVID in some respects. And so, that echoes through their public comments. This is not COVID. It's not going to spread like a pandemic virus like COVID did, like a coronavirus did. It spreads far less efficiently. There aren't any treatments, successful treatments for this virus. Ivermectin certainly isn't an effective treatment. Just by virtue of its mechanism, it doesn't work against this virus. It prevents viral replication in the nucleus, not the cytoplasm where this virus replicates.

[00:03:34]It's just not going to work. So, I would encourage people not to use that. I know that there's been some things on social media suggesting that people should stockpile ivermectin. We don't have an effective treatment for hantavirus. And that that's what makes this very menacing.

[00:03:46]Well, indeed. And we're going to continue to to track that. You served in the first Trump administration as his FDA commissioner in the first term.

[00:03:56]The person in that job now has been a guest on this program, Dr. Marty Makary.

[00:04:02]He was a vocal critic of COVID response during Trump and Biden.

[00:04:07]There's a lot of reporting right now that his current position that he's at risk of losing his job.

[00:04:14]Given how important the FDA is, they regulate I saw 1/5 of consumer spending in this country. How damaging would it be to lose its leader and is there someone who could step in quickly?

[00:04:29]No one obvious to me. There's been some reporting about different candidates that could work on an interim basis there. Marty's a friend. You know, I I think that that's a very difficult job.

[00:04:37]It as you said regulates about 20% of the US economy, products that are very important to people's lives, medical products, food, food safety. And so there's a lot of debate and consternation about decisions that get made at FDA. And so it's been a controversial position for whoever has held that job, including me. You know, I got criticized for decisions that I made in that position as well. I think the continued upheaval at FDA has been detrimental to the agency, not just the speculation about Marty's fate, but also the departures that we've seen from the agency. The agency has lost thousands of medical reviewers, some voluntary through the through the DOJ cuts or some forced through the DOJ cuts. Involuntary means some voluntary. There's been a lot of voluntary departures from the agency. If you look at the oncology division, they had a starting strength of about 100 medical reviewers at the beginning of this administration. They're down to about 50. The hematological group that reviews drugs for leukemia and lymphoma had 21 medical reviewers and is down to six. They lost an entire breast cancer review team. So there's been a lot of departures from the agency. You've seen political appointees take over what are typically career leadership positions running the medical product centers, the drug center, and the biologic center.

[00:05:46]So I think cumulatively that's taken a toll on the agency and this continued speculation that we saw on Friday I think is just going to be another step downward.

[00:05:53]Those are stunning numbers to hear you rattle off there. Um I want to ask you about some of current leadership there. Uh Secretary Kennedy was speaking about the use of antidepressants in this country. Um almost 17% of Americans use them. He says they're over prescribed and he compared his experience of heroin withdrawal to a family member's experience getting off antidepressants known as SSRIs. Take a listen.

[00:06:22]I watched family member get off of them after a couple of years on them and she was suicidal literally every day.

[00:06:32]She woke up every morning and said, "I don't want to live." And she said, "The only reason I'm staying alive is for you guys, for the family."

[00:06:42]He later said that he was not telling people to stop if they're taking that medication. But, what do you make of his description of antidepressants as risky?

[00:06:55]Look, these are prescribed in a primary care setting and like any drug that's prescribed in that setting I'm sure there's some marginal prescribing um you know, isolated marginal prescribing.

[00:07:03]But, for most Americans take these drugs they're very important and in some cases life-saving and I would um encourage everyone who is thinking about potentially stopping these medications based on the secretary's comments to consult their doctor. There is a period of time that patients need to be weaned off these drugs. They can be successfully weaned off these drugs if they want to be and there's alternatives that could be effective for their mental health. But, nobody should just stop these drugs um outright without being under the consultation of a medical provider. I worry that the secretary's comments is going to discourage legitimate use of these drugs in the same way that his comments around Tylenol discouraged use of Tylenol in the setting of pregnancy where it could be very important for certain pregnant women who need pain relief and fever relief in that setting.

[00:07:42]We saw a lot of um women move away from those drugs, use of those drugs, even appropriate use of those drugs. Based on the Secretary's comments about that, I worry about the same thing here. It's clear that the Secretary wants to put downward pressure on the prescribing.

[00:07:55]He tried to implement regulatory steps to do that as well. And so it is concerning.

[00:08:00]Okay.

[00:08:02]Dr. Gottlieb, we're going to have to leave it there. I want to have you back to talk about vaping one of these days, but I'm going to have to leave it there due to time constraints. Thank you so much for your analysis.