Dracula: Prince of Darkness (1966) is a Hammer Horror film that marks Christopher Lee's return as Dracula after an eight-year absence, featuring a resurrection scene where Dracula is reconstituted from ashes using a victim's blood, and starring Barbara Shelley as Helen Kent who transforms into a feral vampire. The film was produced through Hammer's cost-cutting strategy of making four films back-to-back using shared sets, and while it contains memorable moments like the resurrection sequence and Barbara Shelley's performance, it is generally considered inferior to the original Dracula (1958) and The Brides of Dracula (1960) due to its 45-minute absence of Dracula and a less spectacular death scene.
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Hello and welcome to Hammer Time, a Hammer Horror podcast, part of the evolution of horror network. [screaming] I'm Becky Dark, a film critic and Hammer Fang girl, and I'm joined by my co-host, human encyclopedia of film and TV, and Hammer super fang Kevin Lions.
>> Hello, Fang Girl.
>> I remembered. I was like, >> it's a vampire film. I need to update Kevin's bio.
>> Seriously, if we don't do it now, then when? Basically, you know, [laughter] we we're back in familiar territory this week. So, >> in this podcast, Kevin and I are watching and discussing every horror film in Hammers Back Catalog. And this week, Christopher Lee is back in his cape and fangs as he returns as Dracula, Prince of [music] Darkness from 1966.
For 10 years, his mortal remains were cherished by his faithful servant, awaiting the [music] opportunity and a victim to provide the life force for the reincarnation of Dracula.
Our Hammer Time discussions are all spoilerific and we go into plot details and chat about the endings of the films.
So, if you'd like to watch Dracula Prince of Darkness before you listen to the episode, it's available on VOD and it's also part of the great big studio canal hammer collection box set. Um, which I think looking ahead, Kev, to our films that are coming up over the next few weeks. This box set has got us covered. I assume you've got this. Have you?
>> Oh, do you think I might have? Is that possible? I don't know. Let me think about that. [laughter] Yeah. Yes, I have. And yes, it is it is pretty much covering us quite nicely for the next few few weeks if not months in fact.
Yes. So, >> so all of those poor people out there who our podcast has been costing a fortune [laughter] as you're buying all of the physical media um to keep up with our episodes.
If you've got the box set, which I think has got like 21 films on it in total, >> um this will, you know, one one solid investment and it will have you covered for a little while. [laughter] >> I I I reiterate what we said in the the post bag episode. I'm so sorry to your your bank accounts. I really am. It's like I'm not really cuz I you know, you're buying some incredible films that you're going to watch over and over again and you're going to love and all the rest of it. But yeah, I feel bad that people are spending this much money and [laughter] it's I know what it's like once you get going. You can't just buy the wand. You got to have everything.
>> Boy, oh boy, do we know what it's like.
Yeah.
>> Oh, don't we just Yeah. [laughter] >> So, Dra is back.
>> He is.
>> Um, it's been a while since we've had a vampire film for our Hammer Horrors, and it's been even longer since we had a Dracula film.
>> Yeah. Um, so how did this one come about, Kev? And why did it take eight years? Because obviously Dracula, um, uh, Lee and Cushing was 58 and we're now in ' 66. So this has taken 8 years for kind of the first proper Dracula >> sequel to come about. Um, so why now?
>> Well, several reasons. One of the reasons was that um, Christopher Lee made himself available again.
He he kind of had a notoriously prickly relationship with Dracula.
>> Um I think he had one eye on what happened to poor old Bella Losce.
>> Oh, interesting. Yeah, >> he made one Dracula film, two if we count the Abbott and Castello film, but I tend to try not to count Abbert and Castello films, but he played Dracula twice and that's all anybody ever talked about.
>> Mhm. you know, and I think Christopher Lee was very reluctant to go down that tight casting route. He wanted to be seen quite rightly as an actor with more range than simply playing a vampire.
>> Sure.
>> And so he kind of rebuffed all efforts to to get him back. You know, they they tried to make a sequel quite well three twice rather in those eight years.
They'd done um Dracula 2, which became the brides of Dracula. Thank God cuz Dracula 2 is a terrible title.
>> It's awful, isn't it? It's just [laughter] terrible. Quamas 2, we can understand because as I said in the episode, that refers to the spaceship as well as the film. Yeah. But Dracula 2 just No, no, no. Could have been worse.
They had planned to make a Dracula 3, >> but that became the kiss of the vampire, right?
>> Which is an allgether better title. Yes.
>> So, it's not for the want of trying.
They had tried to get Christopher Lee to come back but he just seemed very reluctant >> and now Hammer were about to embark on this little program that they dreamt of of bit of cost cutting and a bit of profit maximization.
They had seen particularly in the states that a lot of their films ended up on the bottom end of a double bill >> right >> which is fine got bombs on seats got eyes on screens lovely. The problem is that the the film at the bottom of the bill, it didn't get much money. The lion share of the box office went to the A film.
>> I've always wondered about this.
>> Yeah. And the B film got a kind of, you know, thanks for being here. Here's your token payment >> sort of deal.
>> And Hammer were thinking, well, you know, this isn't right. We we we should be having more respect than that. And so they they hit on this idea. They were going to make four films back to back using two lots of sets and then crossing these films over into readymade double bills where they would pocket everything so they get the A film and the B film.
>> It's a good idea.
>> Very good idea. I mean, I said right from the beginning, haven't I? These were canny business people. Yeah.
>> You know, they knew what they were doing. And so they came up with this idea, let's make these four films. We're going to make Dracula Prince of Darkness cuz Lee was, you know, saying, "Okay, I'll I'll do it." um and Rasbutin, the mad monk. They were going to be shot on one lot of sets >> and on another lot of sets they were going to make the reptile and the plague of the zombies, right? And then they were going to cross them over. So Dracula, Prince of Darkness, goes out with the plague of the zombies and Rasputin goes out with the reptile.
Amazing. So he seems just this ready made double bill which just, you know, coined them a little more profit. And who can blame them? Also saved them some money cuz they we've seen before that they reuse sets and props and costumes and so on. But >> this is what I was about to say. Like if it it feels like such a smart move anyway, but then if you think about it in terms of Hammer Films, there it strikes me that there is no better or or no um no kind of company that is better set up to be doing this kind of Exactly.
uh tactic, right, of of film making because they've basically uh sort of cornered the market really on on this approach >> of course. Yeah. And seven years in, you know, since Curse of Frankenstein, they've got a whole load of props and they can build these sets in their sleeve basically, you know. I mean, they didn't, you know, they they were still, you know, going for there's a certain cheapness setting in I think I can detect in this one. M >> um but you know it still looks pretty magnificent to be honest. So they were still doing it as well as they possibly could. So yeah, you're absolutely right.
So Hammer were totally set up to do this and they made it work.
>> Let's take a look at the plot of um Dracula, Prince of Darkness. I have not taken this from Letterbox cuz the one on Letterbox literally doesn't make sense.
I don't know [laughter] who's written it where it's been pulled from. So uh this is >> one of those late night things, isn't it? where they've seen it on TV late at night, they're slightly pissed or they're very very tired. They've typed it up on I think it's TMDB, the the movie database where they pull their information from and they've just written some shibberish on there and thought, "Hey, that's really good, isn't it?" And then never gone back to it.
>> I'm sure I've done one in the past where I didn't really read it like sort of word for word, copied and pasted it in, and then got about halfway through I was like, "Hold on a minute." [laughter] >> I can't remember what it was, but there was one where I could hear you losing the will to live halfway through the This doesn't bear a lot of resemblance to the film I've watched actually. So, I've been a bit more done a bit more scrutiny, bit more due diligence on this one. So, hopefully this uh is representative of the film we're about to talk about.
>> The film follows four English travelers who ignore repeated warnings to avoid the remote region of Koh'sbad. After their coachman abandons them at dusk, they take refuge in a seemingly empty castle where a servant named Clove offers unexpected hospitality. During the night, Clove murders one of the men and uses his blood to resurrect Count Dracula, who has been dead for 10 years.
As Dracula rises again, the remaining travelers must fight for survival, seeking help from Father Sandor to stop the vampires renewed reign of terror.
>> That pretty well sums it up, I think.
>> Pretty good.
>> Yeah, that's not bad at all, that one.
That's good. 10 10 out of 10. No notes.
>> Lovely. [laughter] Good, good, good, good, good, good. Um, right, let's let's talk about what we think of this one. I I had heard mixed things going in. So, I didn't really know what to expect. I'd heard sort of from some camps that it was a bit ponderous. I'd heard from other camps that it was a real kind of return to, you know, the Gothic bangers really that we've talked about uh when we've spoken of the the vampire films before. Um, so I went in with uh relatively kind of mid expectations, not knowing which way I was going to lean by the end of it. I enjoyed it largely. I think there's a lot to like about it.
And when we come on um to talk about our kind of favorite moments right at the end of the film, I'm definitely going to be calling out things um kind of moments from the script. I think the screenplay is really good. There's some nice sort of um character moments and also there's a lot of blood in this one. So >> lot of blood. Yes.
>> If you are a a horror fan, I mean I was Oh, yeah. You you could almost sort of bathe in the blood of this one which is fantastic.
>> Yes.
>> Um but I must say there are some points where I've slightly come into this chat where I'm like I've got some questions.
[laughter] >> Oh yes.
between you and me cuz no one else is listening, are you? No. Okay, fine.
>> Safe space.
>> I've been kind of dreading this episode.
>> Oh, no.
>> Because several years ago, I wrote a review of this for my website and I wasn't 100% complimentary about it >> and I found out very quickly to my cost that this film is much beloved, >> right, >> by a large proportion of Hammer fandom.
And they weren't happy with me. And I want to make it very clear up front. All right, this this is just me sort of covering my ass here. All right, so just bear with me. I do not hate this film. A lot of people seem to think I hate this film. I don't hate it. I just don't think it's as good as Dracula or Brides of Dracula.
>> Oh, no. It's not as good as Dracula or Brides of Dracula.
>> It's not. Well, that's that's both of us doomed now. We're both going to be wicker men by the end of the day. There you go. Come back.
>> I'm sorry. [laughter] >> That's it with all the goodwill we built up over these 27 weeks or whatever.
That's it. We've blown it now.
[laughter] But it is a much loved film and I can understand why people love it.
I really can. I I do get why they love it. But it doesn't it doesn't warm the cockals on my heart the way that the first two Dracula films did. Even the one without Dracula in it, I think I like better. If I was going to watch a Dracula film tonight and it wasn't for doing something like this, I watched Prince of Darkness last night. I I don't think I would choose Prince of Darkness.
No, I would choose some of the the sillier later ones because they're silly, if that makes sense. But I again, I have to emphasize I don't hate the film. All right, guys. I don't hate it.
I still think it's a very good film. I just don't think it's the be all and end all of Hammer Gothic Horror.
>> No.
>> Sorry chaps. Sorry.
>> I I agree with everything you've just said. So again, anybody who's taking Umbrage with Kevin's opinion on Dracula Prince of Darkness, I'm afraid it sounds like I share it. So maybe go away and do something else and come back next episode if you don't want to get made angry.
>> Come back next week. Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, you you've got to get through Becky to get to me now. So I feel properly protected. That's really quite right. [laughter] >> Um quite right. Now we begin the film in a way that uh I quite like and we'll come on to talk about this but um you get this from time to time with horror films especially I think if a sequel has been made a few years advanced from when the original or the last film in a franchise etc has been made. um because we begin the film straight up with a flashback to the ending of Dracula 1958.
>> Now, when we talked about that film and our Dracula episode, we were hugely complimentary about that final kind of fight sequence. Yes. Between Christopher Lee and Peter Cushing, obviously Dracula and Van Helsing. It includes all of those amazing effects of Dracula's body kind of crumbling to dust and um uh his you sort of see his leg and then you see his hand and his rings left behind and then his face goes. Got lots of Christopher Lee kind of screaming in agony. Obviously, you've got those incredible action moments of Peter Cushing jumping up and grabbing the curtains to bring the sunlight in.
You've got that iconic moment of him making the crucifix out of the two candlesticks. I mean, this stuff is like chef's kiss, >> you know, goldplated brilliance for a >> hammer. It's perfection, isn't it? It's perfection. Yeah, >> it really is. Um, and so in some ways with this with with echoing it again at the beginning of this sort of first proper Dracula sequel where Christopher Lee returns. Firstly, we don't get Peter Cushing back, >> right? Yeah. And because that sequence is so good, it's kind of reminding you up front how incredible that original film is, which can be a bit of a double-edged sword because then if the rest of the film doesn't quite live up to it, you've already been reminded of kind of what how good it was before.
Does that make sense?
>> I think you've been hacking my computer cuz that's almost word for word what I've got in my notes here. almost word for word. Yeah, I think it is. I remember reading reviews of Dario Arento Speria saying that the film never lived up to the first 20 minutes.
>> Interesting.
>> That incredible opening sequence with the, you know, >> oh my god, >> plate glass falling and all the rest of it that it never lived up to. I'm not sure that's true, but I I that stuck in my mind. I kind of get the same sort of feeling with this. We get this incredible recap of what went before and what follows particularly for the first half of the film >> really doesn't live up to what we saw at that beginning part. There's also a very strange sort of billowing smoke effect.
>> Yeah, that was simply because they decided to shoot this one in full proper widescreen 235 to one widescreen whereas Dracula wasn't. So they had to sort of put something around it like a frame. So it wasn't sitting.
>> That's actually really funny. I thought it was like a, you know, a kind of um wibbly wobbly timy wimy kind of. Look, this is a flashback everybody. But no, it was much more practical than that.
>> Practical. It was simply that, you know, the the original image would have just sat there in the middle of the screen and would have looked very odd. So they put something that's very inventive, actually.
>> Very inventive. But but yeah, I I quite agree with you. I don't think it I don't think it was a good idea to recap it in that way. In some ways, I kind of wish they'd been a bit braver and just sort of said, "Well, okay, we're just going to restart." You already know who Dracula is. You saw the film. You saw the film. Everybody saw the film.
>> We just just have him dead in his castle. We don't need all that stuff at the beginning because we're just going to It's kind of a a reboot, as it were, of the series.
>> And I think it would have worked just as well without that.
>> I do. And in some ways, and I know, you know, again, not to not to crap all over this film up front because I did enjoy it, but I do think you're slightly setting yourself up for a fall. Even if then the film that follows up is is better because it, like we say, that is such a flawless sequence. If I was going to do it, I'd have maybe um I don't know, I'd have cut some of the better bits out of it. I' cut, you know, the jump and all of that kind of thing and maybe just had a slightly shorter clip.
>> Um, but they've included all the good stuff. You don't really get any of that and stuff later on.
>> Well, they've included the best bit, of course, which was Peter Cushing. Wow.
>> Who we sly missed here, although we're going to talk about Andrew Kira's father, Shandor, and I think he's great to be honest. I think he is great. It would have been so much nicer if Peter Cushing was on board. But then, you know, we we have to judge a film on what it is, not on what it could have been.
>> Of course. Of course we do. But I would also, just as a final point on this, I think they make that slightly harder for us by putting the ending of [laughter] the previous film right at the beginning.
>> Exactly. Spot on. Perfectly said. Yeah, exactly. [laughter] >> But as we say, uh, Christopher Lee is back as Count Dracula. Great. Good.
Happy. Happy with that. Lovely to have him back. Fantastic.
>> But, and I think this is what you were potentially um hinting at just now, Kev, in that uh the first half really of the film that immediately follows that incredible opening/ending sequence um is that we don't actually see him until about 45 minutes into the film. and famously famously he doesn't speak any lines of dialogue in the film.
>> This is >> and so I I'm very much like Count Dracula Christopher Lee great. We only get him for about three scenes and whenever he's on screen he doesn't say anything. Not great. So like what's the story behind this? [laughter] >> Well, I have to say up front here that I I kind of like the Kents the the the the human characters. I kind of like them. I think they're sort of good company in a sort of way. There's some very witty dialogue going on there.
>> Oh, there is. They're great. They're fun.
>> But I have paid to see a film called Dracula, Prince of Darkness, and I want my Prince of Darkness, please.
>> You know, and to wait 45 minutes, I do feel a bit sort of, oh, come on, get on with it. Where is he? You know, I want him back.
>> Yeah.
>> As for the no speaking, well, there's a story in that. If we believe Christopher Lee, and we really shouldn't. He refused to say any of the dialogue that Jimmy Sangster had written for him. I quote, "I didn't speak in that picture. The reason was very simple. I read the script and I saw the dialogue. I said to Hammer, "If you think I'm going to say any of these lines, you're very much mistaken."
However, in his book, Inside Hammer, Jimmy Sangster refutes that completely and he says, "Vampires don't chat." So, I didn't write him any dialogue.
Christopher Lee has claimed that he refused to speak the lines he was given.
So, you can take your pick as to why Christopher Lee didn't have any dialogue in the picture or you can take my word for it. I didn't write any. And that's actually borne out by a shooting script um that's dated the 4th of March 1965.
So, very very early on, you know, probably before Christopher Lee came on board. There's no dialogue for Dracula in that either.
>> Oh my god, Christopher Lee.
>> It was never intended.
>> Yes. Well, I think fa I think possibly he was getting a bit confused cuz apparently he rewrote some scenes later in later films. Um I can't remember which one is it. It's a Dracula AD 1972 where he had his speech I am the apocalypse >> and it's all very over the top and all the rest of it and he he demanded that be cut out. And I wonder over time >> oh he's just got mixed up.
>> All our memories do this. I mean, the amount of times in in my life I've muddled up one film for another, you know, because you just do. That's how memory works.
>> I've literally done it within the last couple of weeks on Fresh Blood. A couple of um on our last episode of Fresh Blood or maybe the one before, we were talking about the film Fade to Black from Oh, yeah. 1980.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> And I was like I was, you know, Brad was chatting about it and I was like, "My god, I love that film so much." And we it was in the um >> uh like physical media section of the show and there was this new beautiful release of it I think from 88 films and I was like oh my god I love that film.
I'm going to pick that up.
>> And then the other day I thought oo I fancy a bit of fade to black. I'm going to stick that on. I haven't watched my new disc yet. Stuck it on. I was like I have never seen this film in my life.
[laughter] >> I DON'T KNOW WHAT I THOUGHT IT WAS. I did it in connection with this film. In a way, if you remember, I thought that that prologue that that repeated prologue was at the start of Brides of Dracula.
>> Oh my god. Yes. That's right.
>> Clearly, it isn't. So, you know, it's easily done. It's easily done. And when you made as many films as Christopher Lee made, >> Wow.
>> And you know, I think we have this impression, I'm sure I've spoken this about this before, that filmmakers are like us. They're incredibly nerdy and they're taking notes.
>> They're not. It's a day in the office for most of these people.
So he's like, yeah, one Dracula film after another. He's probably, you know, he's not going to be paying that much attention, I wouldn't have thought, to what was what. So I think he I don't think he was deliberately lying. I think he was just a bit confused to be honest.
>> That makes a lot of sense. That does make a lot of sense. And so what do you think of it though, Kev? Like, you know, Jimmy Sangster is saying vampires don't chat.
>> Yeah. But when we talk about Dracula 1958, I remember, you know, and and not just us, like I think that I am Dracula, >> you know, welcome to my house.
>> Yeah.
>> Is one of the most kind of iconic >> Sure.
>> lines in any vampire film. And so then he was a bit more chatty. Now we've decided that he doesn't have um you know, he's he's not speaking. Um, [snorts] so where do you kind of sit between those two things? Would you have liked him to have spoken a bit more or do you kind of buy into this idea that he's a a kind of a silent menace?
>> Well, I mean, first of all, we have to remember that after that fantastic opening dialogue scene, the getting to know you scene in Dracula, he doesn't speak again anyway.
>> Oh, well, there you go.
>> So, you know, he was fairly silent in the first film. Um, yes, it robs us of Christopher Lee's extraordinary voice. I mean, you know, he he had many characteristics, Christopher Lee, and one of his best was his voice. I loved that voice. I watched the wicker man just last week. And I was just think sitting there thinking, honestly, I could have sat and listened to s Lord Summerle speaking for 5 hours, just that voice. Even when he was talking nonsense about apples and sacrifices and all the [laughter] rest of it, >> I was absolutely wrapped. I was thinking, "Yes, go for it, Lord. Go for it. That's brilliant. That's marvelous.
I totally get because of that voice, that commanding voice.
>> So, I do miss that. But that said, I kind of agree with Sangster in a way. I like my monster to be the strong, silent type. You know, I think Freddy Krueger was at his best in the first nightmare and Elm Street film when he didn't say quite so much >> when he's running off tent of the dozen in the later films. I'm just think just shut up and kill someone. [laughter] >> Don't keep giving crap oneliners. Just murder someone. That's what we're here for. Hell Ra in Hell Raer Pin Head is great in the first one. He gets some dialogue, but it's so beautifully written.
>> Oh my god. I mean, literally everything that comes out of his mouth, which isn't a lot cuz I think he's only the cenipites are only on screen for about 8 minutes of that totally wrong time. Um, >> exactly.
>> But everything that comes out of his mouth is the most like quotable memeable iconic line of horror dialogue of all time.
>> Please, no tears. Such a waste of good suffering. I mean beautiful ri and like you say they're not on screen that much.
He hardly actually says anything at all and in later films in the sequels he's the right chatter box and I don't you know and I just think you're not a scary when you're talking so much. Do you know what I mean? It's kind of I I like and what would what would Dracula have to say to us plebs anyway? You know we don't really know how how old he is here. They say in the prologue that he was 100 at the time of the the the first film, but he could have been around a lot longer than that. He's seen a lot.
He's done a lot. And he's an aristocrat.
He's not going to hang out with peasants like me and have a chat with me. He's just going to move in, killed, and move on again. You know, he's I can't imagine him sitting in sitting down over a dinner table and having a chat. I know he does in the book, but I think I prefer the silence Dracula to be honest.
>> I get it. And it reminds me a little bit of the chat we had about the nanny when right at the end um Joey goes into his mom in the hospital and you made that incredible point that all of a sudden he's back to being a little boy and you can't shut him up, right? So he's just and I think I think you're right what you said at the time the um the credits almost sort of start rolling cut him off because he's still chatting to his mom.
And what I do like about this is you've got exactly as you're saying uh Dracula the kind of ancient >> who is above all of this and you know he's just he's very singleminded. He's just also he's just woken up. He's probably his brain hasn't quite kicked in yet.
>> He's probably quite hungry as well I should imagine.
>> Exactly. So he's just like you know food food. New bride. Fantastic. And then you get Barbara Shel who is the kind of the brand new the sort of the almost childlike of the vampires because she's just being sired.
>> Um and she's the one that kind of does all the >> oh hello brother Charles allow me to kiss you and then you know comes in to kind of bite his neck and stuff. So I quite like that. Like to me there is something about um the the much more kind of old and slightly worldweary draction. That's right. And then this this chatty sort of almost toddler of the [laughter] vampires cuz she's just woken up. You know, she's just been born.
>> I did involuntarily gasp there when you said the words Barbara Shel. We're going to come on to her because oh my god, is she good in this film or what?
>> Kevin Lions, she is remarkable. I can't like my obsession with Barbara Shelly is through the roof at the moment. I cannot get enough of her.
>> I totally get it. I totally get it. I think I mentioned in another episode I met her once at um at S the launch of Jonathan Riby's English Gothic the second edition I think and honestly just to be in her presence she was she was lovely. She was so charming and so friendly but there was this kind of regality about her. You knew you were in the presence of acting great here.
>> Honestly, she is she is genuinely great.
And so she plays Helen Kent. And again, we'll come on to talk about, you know, the rest of the cast of characters and stuff in the in a minute, >> but she plays Helen Kent, who is this very she's she's the slightly older of the two kind of main women in the film.
She's this very um uh sort of anxious and and cautious character.
>> She's very repressed. I think that's the the thing. She's very icy and repressed when we first meet her. She's kind of almost the the picture perfect Victorian/ Edwardian lady.
>> You very much get this feeling that she's been sort of dragged off on this adventure with her family, very much against her will. Um, yeah. And I was watching it and I think because she's that little bit older, um, as an actress at this point, we haven't seen her for a couple of films. And because, as you say, she's got that sort of like repression to her character, that kind of that caution. I was watching her and I was thinking, oh, this actress is good. And then when she turned into a vampire, I was like, oh [ __ ] it's Barbara Shelly.
>> Yeah. She hidden herself so well at the beginning. sort of like buried herself in the in this character and then suddenly she's freed by Dracula. I think it's quite amusing that when we first meet her, she's sort of she's not at all impressed by Charles Kent and is having a good time and drinking a yard of ale and she's very musty, you know, she's so repressed and then Dracula comes along and frees this this sex monster within her. You know, she lets her hair down.
You've got that gorgeous flowing maid of bright red hair.
>> That's right.
>> And she kind of loses all of her clothes pretty much. She's down to her sort of, you know, underclo.
>> Well, I mean, one one of the the classic hammer vampire hammer glamour diaphouses, it >> Yeah. I mean, which, you know, she would I I could imagine that the original Helen would probably have got changed well out of sight, you know, behind a a blind and would have been wearing about five layers going to to bed, [laughter] you know, cuz she was so repressed. But now, oh no, she's had the bite and she is as sexy as she gets. I have to say by far the best thing about this film is Barbara Shelly. But then that's probably true of most of the films that Barbara Shel's in to be perfectly honest.
>> That's true. Yeah, that's a really good point. That's not really a comment on the film is not at all.
>> She is amazing in this, isn't she? I love the I love the journey she goes on.
You've already mentioned this sort of going from repressed to this sort of sexually free and abandoned young undead woman. And then she goes positively feral when they catch her and they kill her.
>> Oh my goodness.
>> And how many men does it take to dispose of this one little girl?
>> Like four.
>> Six of them. Six of them. There's six of them in that room. Five of them holding her down. And you know, cuz she is just completely feral. That's a hell of a performance.
>> It's an incredible performance.
>> For all my misgivings about this film, and there are several, I think that's my favorite performance in any of the films that we've seen so far.
>> Even better than Peter Cushing and Christopher Lee because I think it's so unexpected and it's so shocking in a way. it is because you know she she doesn't strike me as a particularly >> I don't know kind of strong or kind of uh um I don't know like she doesn't she doesn't look like a kind of large woman like you know she's dimminative I think I mean as far as you can tell through your screen you know um >> but that you're absolutely right when the monks are kind of holding her they've got like one on each side have got her arms And those actors who are playing those monks are genuinely struggling to contain her. Like Barbara Shel's physical performance beside aside from anything else in this film is incredible.
>> It's amazing. All that snarling and snapping >> Yeah.
>> at them, trying to bite them and trying to, you know, just hissing and snarling and just like she's so angry in that scene. It's absolutely [laughter] bloody brilliant. It really is. And she was so modest about >> you're trying to She's like a cat.
You're trying to get into one of those carry cases to take the exactly what it is. She's [laughter] feral and feline all in one. And when I met her that time, I did actually say that this was one of my favorite moments in her career. I was raving about how good it was. And she was so naughty. She said, "Oh, that's very kind of you. Thank you." And he's like, "Barbara, honestly, you are bloody magnificent in that that one scene I could watch over and over and over again. She's so good in it. And I just love the fact that it takes so many men to stop her.
>> Yeah, exactly.
>> You know, the this force of nature has been unleashed on Victorian/ Eduwardian Europe and they can't cope with it.
>> You know, it takes them to come out a small army just to stop this one, like you say, very dimminitive young woman.
And wow, that is so impressive. It really is.
>> It is. It's amazing.
>> Slightly less impressive, it's the fact that she struggles with the fangs. Did you notice that? Right. Okay. I I Okay.
I'm really glad you brought this up because [laughter] >> you don't need Charles. She gets a bit of a lisp when she's uh [laughter] when she's trying to talk through the, you know, she can't quite get her words out cuz he's got this thing in her mouth, you know. Bless her. [laughter] >> Couldn't they have given him a name like Paul or something? So, it didn't have so many yeses in it, you know.
>> Yes, he did. [laughter] Um, but you say that about um Barbara Shel, but I also thought that Christopher Lee's fangs are weird in this. I don't think I actually see him open his mouth at any point. It looks like he's having to bite them between his teeth to keep them in his mouth.
>> Yeah. Yeah. I hadn't noticed that. I must admit it's okay. So, you've given me another reason to go back to it one day just to look for that.
>> Have a look. [laughter] Next, next time you do watch it, Kev, just have a look because and again, you know, um, hammer time at what was our email address?
Hammer evolution of horror.com. Um, write in and tell me if I'm wrong, but I don't think you see Dracula actually open his mouth with the fangs in. He opens his lips so you can see them. I'm sure he just has them clumped between his teeth the whole time.
>> That's a really good observation. I'd never noticed that. I should look out for it next time I watch it.
>> Which, if it is true, it definitely slightly takes away from Dracula's menace a bit because it's like >> like he's grinding his teeth. I >> Yeah. [laughter] >> Anyway, we'll see. Write right in. If I'm wrong, I'll be I'll be happily um discredited of my my observation.
>> But I think that also speaks a little bit to some of the lack of resources perhaps.
>> You mentioned this cheapness. Yeah, there is a bit of cheapness. I I we'll talk about the ending later on, but that there is actually a rather large stick which is visible in shot holding up the the ice flow that Dracula slides off.
And that's not something I would have expected Hammer to have left in in an earlier film.
>> Yeah.
>> And there are sort of continuity >> Well, glitches here and there.
>> You know what? I had this in my notes, so let's let's do it now. Let's let's have a quick chat about this as you've sort of so naturally brought us on to it.
I've seen the film, as I said earlier, that it's been kind of criticized for being a bit dull by some people, not the fans obviously, but by some people.
>> Sure. Sure.
>> Um, and there's definitely some kind of extraneous >> stuff. The bit that really jumped out to me is when um Diana, so um the younger woman of the party, yes, um played by Suzanne Farmer, Susan Farmer, >> um she says to her husband, Charles, played by Francis Matthews, um I I want to leave. I want to get out of here because the other two, Helen and um Allan, have disappeared. And she says, "I'm really frightened. I want to leave." and he says, "Okay, yeah, you're right. Let's get out of here." So, they steal away. They go back to a little cabin that they sort of spotted earlier.
>> Mhm.
>> He drops her off and says, "I'm going back to the castle." And she's like, "Oh, no, please don't." And he's like, "Well, I am, so stay put." He goes back to the castle. Then Clove, the servant, comes back down, gets her, and brings her back to the castle. So, they're both just at the castle again. And I'm like, what are we doing here? Are we just filling five minutes? Because that was there was literally no point in that entire sequence. They've gone out castle and NOW THEY'RE JUST BACK at the castle together. [laughter] >> Yeah, there are little moments like that when I do think maybe Jimmy Sangster's heart wasn't in this so much. This is sort of where I'm coming with it uh with with my point because as well, you know, you you've mentioned the stick and there are some other odd little gaffs for one of a better word, >> some continuity errors. Um Diana at one point she's sort of holding her crucifix up to Dracula.
>> Yeah.
>> And then the shot changes to a different angle and it's back down at her neck and then she pulls it up again with her hand. And I was like, that was weird.
>> Um, there's also a really weird bit with Helen where she finds her husband Allan who was just, my god, he's been he's just suffered the most horrific death.
This is where all the blood comes in.
Um, and I mean, I assume Barbara Shel's got a pretty decent scream on her, but the scream is really odd and is definitely dubbed.
>> It is, isn't it? Very noticeably. Yeah.
>> Noticeably dubbed. And so my question, Kev, really sort of with all of these little points is I was going to ask if Terrence Fischer was a little weary by this point. Was was he sort of missing these little bits or maybe just sort of thinking, oh, it doesn't really matter or was it, you know, were were bits like the um uh the kind of coming down to the cabin and then going back up to the castle? Like was that a Jimmy Sangster thing? Like what's your opinion about kind of why these things are slightly slipping through the cracks in this film? I don't think Fischer was particularly disillusioned. I think he was too professional a director to do that. Um he'd been away from Hammer for a little bit making films for other companies and some of those were dirt cheap and he still brought his agame to them. I think there's um there are some structural issues with the script.
That's certainly true. Um it pains me to say it because you know as well as anybody at this stage how much I adore Jimmy Sangster.
>> Yeah.
>> How much I think you know that man is a bloody genius. Yeah, >> you know, absolutely incredible, but I think a lot of the problems with the film do stem from his script.
>> I think it's kind of it's a weird shape the script that we've got this 45 minutes where Dracula isn't around.
>> Yeah.
>> And I would like for him to have been back a lot quicker. I don't want him, you know, necessarily back in the opening scene. That's fine. We'd have a little bit of suspense, but 45 minutes, that's half the film gone.
>> I' I've felt it, you know. I I 45 minutes without >> definitely and I just I just not sure how keen Sangster was to be back making these Gothics. He hadn't written one since The Brides of Dracula, >> right?
>> He'd been been writing the psychological horror films.
>> Well, and one of the main reasons for that that we know and we've discussed at length is that he kind of thought that the Gothics had slightly run their course and Hammer had been moving in a different direction.
>> Indeed. And in fact on this you'll notice you won't see Jimmy Sangster's name on the credits >> right >> the screenplay is by John Sansom which is one of his pseudonyms >> right >> he'd used it first in 1963 on a Edgar Wallace mystery called to heaven to hold and also on a novelization of the man who could cheat death he wrote a novelization and used it used the name there so it's not like he was particularly saying yes I'm back here I am back in the Gothics he's saying well here's John Santom having a go at it now.
>> I think if you're if you're a fan of of Jimmy Sangster, and I hope most of you are after all this time listening to us bang on about him, then I think you'll recognize his writing style. When he's good in this, he is terrific.
>> Some really funny stuff. There's some fantastic dialogue in it, but I think structurally it's a problem for me. I think um there's not a lot here that we hadn't seen before as well, which doesn't help.
There's kind of a tiredness to the the story.
>> Yeah.
>> Um we're even going to guess a scene where Dracula bursts into a room and hisses at the vampire bride who's trying to bite someone he's got his eye on >> and then throws her to the floor.
>> Then throws her to the floor and almost immediately Charles comes in and makes a makeshift crucifix.
>> Yeah. to hold him at bay. And it's like, okay, so it worked once, but you don't really know. I mean, eight years ago, we still remember seeing that, particularly as you showed us the crucifix bit >> at the beginning of this.
>> At the beginning of the film, so why are you repeating it now and hoping that we won't notice it? So, there's kind of I don't know. I don't know who's to blame.
Blame isn't the right word, but you know what I mean. Who who we hold responsible for the things that I don't like about the film. There's much to enjoy. We'll come on to more of those later on. But um there's a lot in this I find difficult.
>> Yeah.
>> And I'm not sure who I want to hold responsible for that. I assumed it's probably a team effort [laughter] to be honest. That Sangster, you know, maybe Hart wasn't quite in it. He just, you know, The Nanny had just been out, which was the high point of his psychological thrillers. Um he was probably thinking, well, that's what I want to be doing really. I want to be making psychological thrillers with with Hollywood royalty. I don't want to be stamping around, you know, studio backlog with Christopher Lee and vampires and fangs and all the rest of it cuz I've done that.
>> Been there, done that, want to move on.
In fact, I kind of get the impression cuz he didn't make another one of those for a while that he was fed up of the psychological horror films at this point. You know, he was a very mercurial man. I think if he wasn't being stimulated by what he was doing, he moved on.
>> Yes. And also that you you know you have made a good point there Kevin that he strikes me and and I'm by no means an expert in the way you know that that sort of you or someone like Marcus Hearn is in terms of Jimmy Sangster's career but it strikes me from what I'm uh sort of observing as we sort of go through these periods of his writing that he gets he he gets the film that he feels is the height of that particular style, that particular subg genre. And then he's like, "Right, well, I've nailed that. So, what's next?"
>> Yeah. Where do I go from here?
Basically, how can I top brighter Dracula and The Nanny?
>> Yeah. Exactly.
>> And, you know, you can't really, can you? So, you know, you can understand why he was, you know, I mean, okay, they were paying him to do it and he could have said no. He could have, you know, I don't think he was quite ready to go to Hollywood just yet, but he was about to, you know, by the end of the decade, he'd be in Hollywood.
>> So, he could have said no and just gone off and done his own thing. But I know May maybe part of him thought I could write this film and that that'll be the end of it.
>> That'll be the end of the Gothics.
Nobody will want one after this cuz, you know, this is Dracula's comeback. What else can I possibly do now?
>> Yeah. And you know, maybe he just did it that way and just possibly used the name John Sansom so he didn't appear to be a hypocrite or something. [laughter] >> Um, all right. But there are there are, as we say, plenty of positives. So, let's um let's talk about some of these characters because as we do so, we'll be able to touch on some of those really lovely moments that do come out of Jimmy Sangster's script and Terrence Fisher's direction. So, as uh as you've already said, we've got the Kents, right? So, these are the four travelers. We've got >> That's right.
>> Alan and Helen, played by Charles Tingwell and Barbara Shel. They're married.
>> And then Alan's younger brother is Charles, played by Francis Matthews, and his wife is Diana, played by Susan Farmer. Um, and we first meet them in a classic hammer gothic tavern or in in the Carpathians.
>> Um, and as you say, Charles, uh, you get this lovely sort of character intro where it's a beautiful shorthand for him being a bit sort of, uh, bit of a lad, bit adventurous, you know, a man of the people kind of thing. He's a lad on the night out sort of smoozing with the locals basically, isn't he? And sort of, you know, trying trying to suck up to the locals a little bit by that ingratiate himself slightly. So he's he's chugging a and failing, I must say, a yard of a yard of ale. Um, and then, you know, this huge cheer goes up and he says, "Ah, drinks for everyone, blah blah blah blah." Helen. This is where we find out that Helen maybe isn't entirely into his style of doing things because she's like, "Oh, for goodness sake, you know, he's spending yet more money, blah blah blah blah blah."
>> And Diana says, "Well, that's okay. You know, it's only it's pence. Like, we can afford it." Helen's like, "Well, that's not the point." Um and so you get this sort of dynamic of um the two brothers and um then their wives, one of whom is a bit more sort of young and spirited and happy golucky and poor old Helen who is obviously on this trip slightly against her will.
>> Belie does a wonderful look in that that scene where she kind of just glances over at Charles and you can actually hear the words forming in the air in front of you. I can't take you anywhere, can I? [laughter] You know what I mean? It's that kind of like, you know, I don't have to explain this to a woman, but when when BS are on a night out, we are [ __ ] basically.
And women put up with us for the most part. They put up with us. And because we are bloody idiots. We're sort of, you know, get get two drinks down. So, well, hey, we're dancing and doing all sorts of nonsense. You know, >> to be completely frank, I would give any bloke a run for his money in terms of being a nuisance on a light night out on the beers. No, I you know I will hold up my hands.
>> I'm not going to comment. I'm not I'm saying nothing. [laughter] I'm saying nothing. I value what life I have left in me. I'm saying nothing. [laughter] >> But yeah, I think you know he used to be like you say the lad. Yeah, >> he's a lad sort of, you know, hey, I'm having a great time. This is good. This is good. And she really doesn't like it one bit, does she? It's just so disapproving. He's definitely got like younger brother energy and she's very much got kind of wife of older brother energy. She's like, "Oh god, why do we have to hang out with him? Like, have we got any grown up friends?" You know, >> can't we just stay at home and have a cup of tea? [laughter] You know, so we don't have to be traing around Europe getting hammered every stop we make, you know? [laughter] Then in retrospect, of course, if that's what she was thinking, she was right.
>> Well, it's a good point.
>> She was right. if that was indeed what what she was singing.
>> Oh, there are there are multiple points in this film where I was almost exclaiming out loud, >> will somebody please listen to this woman for God's sake, you know, her >> like, you know, you sort of talk about like, oh, I can feel it in my waters.
like her kind of instincts are so spot on that by the time it all starts going to [ __ ] for these people, I'm like, do you know what? If you lot had listened to Helen in the first place, Alan wouldn't have had none of this would have happened.
>> Alan wouldn't have had his throat slit, you know? Uh uh poor old um Diana wouldn't be sort of bitten on the wrist and and enthralled to Dracula. Charles wouldn't be having to race horses all over the countryside trying to save her.
>> Although in fairness, I think he probably enjoyed that bit.
>> Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah, he >> Well, we know of Charles. I think he probably thought, well, hey, you know, [laughter] chance to have a bit of a horse race an adventure. Yeah. And you know, so Francis Matthews does that so well, doesn't he? He brings across that sort of vivra.
>> He is so good.
>> He's very good. He's got that kind of freespiritedness >> definitely >> that he brings out of Charles. And I think it and like I said, although I I I regret the fact that it takes 45 minutes to get to Dracula, but I kind of like being in their company. Even grumpy old Helen, I like being in her company. You know, they they're good company to be with.
>> They're nice. Um kind of individually, you know, they've they've got, you know, they've each got something. Like Allan is a dick. Like let's not beat about the book. So dismissive >> to Helen specifically, but just in general like I'm I'm I'm not enjoying Allan's vibe at all. But Charles is really good fun. As you say, he's got that kind of viv this real kind of confidence that is almost edging up to arrogance, but doesn't quite tip over for me. Like he's >> it's cockiness, isn't it? He's cocky. He sort of he knows he can get away with some of these things. Even if Helen is tutting, he knows I can push this a bit further and he's just going to have fun doing it.
>> There's the bit when um they've been left behind uh on the road by their coachman and they have to figure out what they're going to do and then Yeah, >> I loved this. So this coach arrives, horsedrawn carriage.
>> Yeah.
>> No driver, which is >> no driver >> creepy.
He did.
>> And Charles is like, "Oh, what luck." You know, we can take this.
[laughter] >> Yeah.
>> And Helen is like, "Sh, should we though because you know, we don't know who it belongs to." Blah blah blah blah blah. And he's like, "Don't worry about it. I'll get control of the horses." And so they get all the luggage onto the carriage. He takes the reins.
And then there's this amazing bit where he can't control them. and he says, "Yeah, >> they're taking the wrong road."
>> That's right. Yeah. [laughter] >> And it's that it's that sort of confidence of like, >> I don't know, him almost like blaming the horses.
>> That's right.
>> Without knowing that they probably are under some sort of, you know, my supernatural situation to do with the with the vampire. But, um, he, like I say, he's so confident and and almost arrogant, but not quite. And so he remains charming for me.
>> That's right. He He's charming. That's the word for him. He's charming.
>> Yeah, I think so.
>> And he comes through towards the end when when when the chips are down and he finally realizes what's going on. He does step up and do quite a good job of of of of saving Diane, I think.
>> Yeah, definitely. Yeah, >> she Diane So Diana um Susan Farmer, she doesn't have a huge amount to do. I I would say that I think her character is slightly underwritten. All she does is either agree or disagree with something that somebody somebody else has said.
>> She basically stands around looking gorgeous and Suzanne Farmer is was just made for that. It takes something absolutely gorgeous >> to sort of go up against Barbara Shel and the gorgeousness stakes and still turn my head, you know, I still think, "Oh, hello. It's Suzanne Farber. She's rather pretty as well, isn't she?" You know, >> they're both lovely. She's got superb hair as well, Diana. the the the hair and makeup department have done a marvelous job on her. This incredible sort of elaborate updo she's it's really good.
>> I must admit I spent a very long time with the notes last night trying to come up with the Charles and Diana joke, but I couldn't think of one that wasn't going to be, you know, completely tasteless and get me locked up in the tower. But um [laughter] but but yeah, I mean she to be fair to um Suzanne Farmer, she does get one really good scene. I think >> there's a sort of very erotic scene where she almost drinks Dracula's blood >> where Dracula is enthralled her and he sort of cuts his chest.
>> Kevin, >> and that is an incredibly good scene, I have to say.
>> It's hot.
>> And beautiful bit of physical acting by Lee when he walks in and gets her to remove the cross that she's wearing.
>> Oh my god.
>> Simply by pointing at it and sort of like almost like flicking it aside almost from a distance to remove it. And he doesn't have to say anything. She knows she's under his control. And then that sort of really cut he opens his he bears his chest and sort of cuts himself. So there's blood and he's luring her over to drink the blood and then she'll become a full-blown vampire.
But watch the film to find out what happens next. [laughter] >> Come back next week.
>> Come back next week.
>> Um I That was definitely going to be one of my favorite moments from the film.
>> Oh, I'm sorry. I should have checked ahead.
>> Don't be silly. Don't be silly. It is sexy. Like >> it is, isn't it? Yeah.
>> Everybody knows by now how I feel about Christopher Lee.
>> Oh, as soon as soon as he opened his his shirt, I kind of heard you faint to be honest. In my imagination, [laughter] I'm Christopher >> son. Absolutely.
>> Um, but you're right. Uh, uh, Susan Farmer absolutely holds her own in that scene.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, she does. It's her best moment.
>> It is for sure. And um going back to what we were saying earlier about Christopher Lee's um sort of uh nondialogue Dracula, >> that is actually I would say the moment in the film where that really comes into its own.
>> Yes, it does >> because if he'd said something like remove your cross.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> It would have had zero impact at all.
But you're so right. the way um the camera lingers on both of their very wide eyes to let you know that he's kind of bringing her in under his thr. Um and then just almost an almost imperceptible look and movement of his hand. Yeah.
>> And you know what he's what he's uh sort of ordering her to do. She knows she removes it. She sort of casts it aside.
I was like, "Yes, this is working."
That's the power of the man that he doesn't have to tell her to do that. He has other powers over her.
>> Right. Exactly.
>> He doesn't need words, you know. And there's a lovely little bit when she has removed the cross where Christopher Lee just gives the smallest smile, the tiniest little self-satisfied smile. I got you. I did it. See, um I made you look, you know, made you remove it. So yeah. Well, and also I I I wonder if there's a little bit of Dracula who having literally just been brought back from a pile of ashes, he he I get the feeling he's almost sort of testing his powers out, you know, like have I, you know, do I need to warm up or have I still got all my powers? And he he sees it um in real time kind of that that they're still effective. There's almost a little sort of uh note of few. NOT LIKE NOT LIKE OVERTLY, but maybe not few. Maybe more just like satisfaction, right? Satisfaction that he's still got them.
>> More like Oh, good. It still works after exactly. Yeah, you're quite right. Yeah, absolutely. No, I love that. I love that. Can I just very quickly very quickly go back to Francis Matthews, >> please? And just to ask, did you notice that he's not playing Charles in one of the scenes?
>> What?
>> This is what I put my anorak on. This is the bit you all love. This god.
>> This is what you've turned up for, isn't it? This is what they want. When he's about to shoot Clove, Clo is sitting on the the um the carriage.
>> Yes.
>> It cuts away to a shot from behind Charles and Shandor. Except that's not Francis Matthews playing Charles. I'm not sure who it is, but I think it might be a stunt man, but have a look at it again. Go watch that one scene. That is not Francis Matthews in any way, shape, or form. And I don't quite know how they thought they were going to get away with that cuz it's quite a, you know, it's not a long shot, but it lingers a little bit. And it's quite obviously not him.
>> How funny. [laughter] >> So, I don't know. Isn't that very weird, but anyway, I digress. There you go.
Anacov. We'll go back to the series.
>> No, that's brilliant. I'm [laughter] going to I'm going to fire up my um DVD again as soon as we hit stop on this recording. I need to check this out for myself.
>> You'll notice it immediately. I will get an email or or a WhatsApp message later just say, "Bloody hell, Kev, you're right." [laughter] >> I love that. I am always such a fan when you see terrible like stunt standins. My favorite of all time, thanks for asking, is um in Buffy the Vampire Slayer. And um there's this incredible moment where Xander Harris is having a fight with the dinner lady um because she's poisoned all of the Jell-O in the in the cafeteria >> and um he is having this sort of punchup with her. The dinner lady in the show is a very sort of large matronly figure.
You know what I mean when I say the word matron.
>> I do. Yeah.
>> Um see our sister podcast. Carry on up [laughter] for for more context on that.
>> And then there's this bit where Buffy comes in and like kicks the um dinner lady up against the kind of hatch where she does the food. And it is literally just a tall thin guy in and he looks like um he looks like flipping Norman Bates like dressed up in his mom's dress and wig. It is the funniest thing that you will ever see in your life and I love it so much. Um so I'm very much in I'm very much looking forward to checking this one. Just to digress one second then if we're going to do that.
I've been recently reviewing the James Bond films and towards the end of the Roger Moore era. I I was always fascinated by how James Bonds suddenly became 20 years younger with [laughter] with one cast, one edit cuz basically you know old Roger Moore was in one scene then he was doing a stunt and the stunt man was in his 20s when Roger Moore was in his, you know, what was he 50 something when he finished. So yeah, it's um I love moments like that. They they do stand out. I find them so fun.
They're so >> quite entertaining. Yeah.
>> Yeah, definitely. [laughter] >> Anyway, meanwhile, back at the plot.
>> Exactly. Yeah. Um, so one character that we haven't really um talked about yet, although you did mention the brilliant Andrew Kia is Father Sandor or Shandor. Sandor.
>> Shandor. He spells Sandor, but he seems to be being pronounced Shandor >> because we're in the Carpathians, I would assume.
>> Because we're in the Carpathians.
[laughter] So, >> and we I I should tell you that I' I've trailed the my love for quite mass and the pit coming up soon. We're going to see Andrew Kia and Barbara Shelly reunited in that for an absolute tour force of acting brilliance. So, prepare yourself for that one.
>> Lovely. Um, Father Shandor is he's kind of the um voice of reason almost amongst these kind of superstitious That's right. path visitor villagers >> because they're all still, you know, in the inn. They've got their um garlic flowers, you know, strung up everywhere.
>> He stops, doesn't he? Stops the villagers from burying a young woman who's been found dead and not trying to sort of stake her or anything. So, you know, like he's been gone 10 years. You can stop this now. Which is interesting.
I think a very clever bit of writing by Sangster that we've got the man of God being the voice of reason.
>> Absolutely. [snorts] And it's a little bit of a red herring that moment as well because I'm sitting there and I'm thinking, "All right, Shandor, back off." Like, you know, you're going to tell these people not to stake her and to give her a proper Christian burial. And I tell you what's going to happen. She's going to come back and she's going to bite a load of people and now they they're all going to be vampires and it's going to be all your fault. And then of course you realize, no, he's actually done completely the right thing because there's no way at this point that she could be a vampire. And I was like, right, fair play. I'll shut up.
>> Exactly. Yeah. A very clever bit of rug pulling by Sangster, I think. You know, >> yeah. really it really sets up um I think it uses that trope which really by now has already been established of you know you you see an opening scene with a funeral procession >> and then they get buried you know we saw it in Kiss of the Vampire um >> they get buried and uh you know the the poor vampire daughter in that one had a shovel through her heart so she out of her grave um And it's it's just you it immediately makes you think, uh-oh, this girl's going to be a vampire. Yeah.
>> And sort of sets you up with this this character trait of Father Shandor. And then it turns out that it's not at all what you expect. And I love >> Very clever. Very clever. He is I mean, let's face it, he is Van Helsing >> essentially >> amongst Habit. Yeah. I mean, he's playing the same function within the story, but that's okay because I think there's enough differences between the two characters.
>> Well, absolutely. You know, Van Heling turns up and and he's sort of uh he's following his colleague. He already is kind of aware I think that um you know, Dracula is sort of on the rampage and he turns up very much like with a a mission, doesn't he? That's right.
Whereas Shandor, I think, is somebody who has got that kind of esoteric knowledge and understands that vampires absolutely were once a thing, but is very much firmly in the belief that since Dracula >> uh was killed that like we don't need to worry about it anymore and you know, let's just let's stop being superstitious and bring ourselves up to date. And to a certain extent he is right, but then he has to step back into that kind of more Van Helsing um role towards the end when he basically realizes that he's the only person who knows what to do and has the kind of the the resources and the knowledge to to you know save these people.
>> Indeed. Yeah. Yeah. And he proved to be a very popular character. I mean, just last week, if you remember in the mailbag episode, somebody asked a question about um having like a sort of Avengers style, if we're going to do an Avengers style crossover with the Hammer characters. And I said, wouldn't it be great if if Father Shandor met Van Helsing, they teamed up to fight, you know, armies of vampires, and we never saw that. But what we did see was the continuing adventures of of Father Shandor. There was um again, you mentioned this last week, the comic/magazine, House of Hammer.
>> Mhm.
>> They had a backup strip in several issues which were sort of Father Shandor's terror tales or something along those lines where he didn't feature in them, but he was kind of the host of this horror story. And they appeared in House of Hammer. And then eventually they went on to another magazine, comic magazine called Warrior, which was it anthology, comic anthology magazine, which was the original home of the Vifa Vendetta strip.
>> No way.
>> Oh yeah. And there it was V for Vendetta with Father Shandor, you know, sitting alongside as it were in his own strip.
But he was so popular people, you know, loved the character. I wish they brought him back.
>> Yeah, >> I would love to have seen him come back.
>> I would love to have seen him again. I think >> in the next Dracula film I think it is there is a priest in there which we could have had rewritten as Shandor and I think it would have worked really well but we'll talk about that when we get to that that particular film but I think yeah Andrew Kir is brilliant the character is fantastic I think you know again it's a highlight I agree and that scene where that scene where he's killing um killing Helen is just >> absolutely extraordinary like I say we're going to see those two acting their socks off opposite each other in Quer Master of the Pit you are in for such a treat. I can assure you.
>> Yeah. And it's interesting what you say about him being um this kind of religious figure as well because he's not only the voice of reason, but he's coded as being like much more kind of laidback and a bit more modern. So even though he's, you know, in this abbey full of monks, he wears his habit and that he's kind of he's out hunting with a rifle which some of the others kind of disapprove of. Um he uh but saying that later on he says that he won't kill Clove because he's a human and you know there are certain things that his religion still won't allow him to do. Um but when he first meets the Kents in the inn, he's kind of joking around. Um he you know I think he has a drink at one point and he sort of say he's talking about you know the pleasures of life and and it's actually really refreshing to kind of see a um a man not only a man of religion but certainly a monk in this kind of story um who's actually like I'd go for a pint with him you know.
>> Absolutely. That's thanks to sidest stepping the stereotype. Yeah.
>> Rather brilliantly. I think he is a very affable guy. Yeah. Like you say, I'd go down the in with him. I'd be all right with that, you know. So, you know, leave the religion at the door, Father, but let's go and have a pint. We'll we'll set the world some rights anyway, [laughter] you know. And it'll be great.
It'll be lovely. No, I like him. I like him a great deal, Father Shandor. Wish we'd seen more of him.
>> Me, too.
>> I really do.
Um, up at the castle we've got Philip Laam as Clove and he is one of two kind of familiars in in this film. We get a bit of dialogue um from Shandor talking about how um vampires often have these humans and he says something like I don't really know why but they uh >> Yeah, that's right. [laughter] Yeah.
>> You know, they're sort of there to to do things um that vampires can't do. you know, sort of during the day and that kind of thing, helping to bring people up to the castle as, you know, a little buffet snack.
>> Do do you did you notice though that this Dracula seems to be able to walk about in a certain amount of daylight?
>> I did. He definitely goes out at sort of twilight or something.
>> Yeah. Or very bad day for night photography. I'm not sure what it was meant to be, but it's um he does seem to be strolling about in something approaching daylight, so maybe he doesn't need familiars, but he just likes having people to push around.
Maybe.
>> Yeah, maybe. Yeah. Um, Clove is this very sort of classic creepy old butler.
Um, he's very he's very pale. It looks like they might have kind of lightened his hair, lightened his skin a little bit um to make him look especially kind of, you know, gothic and creepy. Um, but again, it's a brilliant performance. I think Philip Laam is genuinely menacing at points in this film.
>> He's really good. I mean the we have to overlook the question of where the hell was he during the first film. Was he on his holidays or something? Cuz Dra has been dead 10 years. So he couldn't have hired him. He must have hired him 10 years ago.
>> Such a good point.
>> Was he having a day off or something? I don't know. But anyway, we can overlook that. We can overlook that because he gets a fantastic entrance the first time we see him where he just walks out of the darkness into the room.
>> Honestly, which inspires >> I thought it was going to be Dracula and then it wasn't. That's I think that was the whole point. We're kind of thinking, well, he scored Dracula, Prince of Darkness. This must be him and everybody panics. All the Kents go into an absolute frenzy of panic at this point.
And then it just turns out to be the butler. But he's actually a very funny character. He's got a great line of dialogue with Charles where they're talking about his master that basically um he's going to sort of give them food and somewhere to stay for the night because that's what his master would have wanted for the house to always be open for guests. We know why of course but it's got this great moment where he sort of say will your master be joining us and Clo says um no he won't and Charles says is he indisposed and Clo just dead pans he's dead which [laughter] really makes me laugh every time just the way Philip Laam says it he's dead just so fantasty delivered and then it's followed up by one of my favorite lines in the entire film from Charles who says, "I'm sorry if we appear a little dense, [laughter] but perhaps you could explain."
>> Yeah, >> it's a really really fun exchange. And you know, as we were saying earlier, it's those moments that you do see uh Jimmy Sangster kind of shining through.
You know >> that that particular is lovely that that line you quoted because it's Charles's charm >> versus Cloves lurch like character. You know I kind of imagine that he's a sort of the transatlantic cousin of the Adams family's lurch that kind of moves the same sort of way you know a bit sort of he he seems dead himself doesn't he a lot of the time in this >> definitely >> but of course he gets also one of the the the greatest scenes in the whole film doesn't he we'll discuss that later the the resurrection scene.
>> Oh my god it's so good. Yes, we'll come on to that. Um, and then the other familiar in the film, and I know that we've already talked about a bunch of really great characters, but he he literally might be my favorite.
>> We get Thory Walters as Ludley.
>> Yeah, of course he's your favorite. He's Thor Walters for God's sake. [laughter] >> He is so funny. Yeah.
>> But like in this really kind of like unsettling way.
>> Yeah.
>> So [snorts] Ludvig is um a kind of resident at the monastery. So he's sort of in um Father Shandal's care and I think uh we get a little sort of glimpse into the backstory. Essentially Father Shandal or one of the monks found Ludvig kind of outside Dracula's castle. um he was uh I don't know unconscious and then you know he's lost his memory he doesn't know who he is >> and so they sort of bring him to the monastery and he lives there now and um he's absolutely bonkers this >> there's a lovely little hint isn't there where father Shandor tells I think he tells Charles says why is he locked up and he said because he could erupt at any moment >> yes >> which I think is lovely isn't he doesn't oversell that but there's clearly something going on with Ludwick Absolutely. Well, I mean, also he does the absolutely classic Renfield thing where he's eating flies and stuff, >> right? Yeah.
>> Um, but they keep him around because he's this kind of master craftsman.
>> Yeah.
>> So, um, when Shandor brings Charles in to introduce him to Ludvig, he's like, "Oh, you must come and meet Ludvig, you know, this sort of character that we have around the place." M >> he brings him in and uh Ludvig has just finished uh I don't know he's he's like rebound a book or he sort of put >> he's put this lovely sort of decoration on the front of it and stuff and he's very proud and he says um he says something like >> is it is it exquisite or simply magnificent [laughter] >> and Shandor says I love that says oh yeah it's exquisite Ludvik yeah well well Yeah. And then Ludvig says, "Mhm.
Okay. Well, I'll call for you when I need you again."
>> That's right. [laughter] >> He's so good.
>> He's very good. He's very good. I do. I do love him. I do. I do love Lewig. He's again another See, look, I don't hate this film after all, do I? You see, I just, you know, there's a lot to love about this film and Thorley Walters is one of them. But again, in fairness, Thorley Walters is quite often the person to love in every film that he's in. But, you know, that's not to take away from his performance in this one.
He's so good.
>> Now, you've said that, Kev, like I should know who Thory Walters is. Should I know who Thory Walters is?
>> Well, you should know Thory Walters.
We've seen him several times already.
>> Oh my god. Have we? Who's Thory Walters?
I can't keep up.
>> Well, you would have seen him in a lot of other British film and television.
He's um a very familiar face to anybody who was basically if you're like me, you were spending an awful lot of time in your childhood and your teenage years watching British old British films on television. He turned up in them all.
He's in um let me have a look. Okay, I've just pulled up his his filmography.
Oh my god, it's epic. Okay, where do we start? Um Blue Murder at St. Trillians, Carlton Brown at the FO. Don't panic, chaps. Two-way stretch. This could go on for a while. suspect, the pure hell of St. Trinians, um Sherlock Holmes and the deadly necklace. He was in the Phantom of the Opera.
>> Ah, >> he was in another um film for Terren Fisher, which he didn't make, a hammer called The Earth Die Screaming about an alien invasion. He's here. He's We're going to see him again in Frankenstein Created Woman. We're going to see me Frankenstein must be destroyed. He's also over >> Oh, I've seen that.
>> Oh, there you go. See, he's in that.
He's in the [laughter] amicus film, The Psychopath. He's in Twisted Nerve. He's in my god, the amount of good stuff he's in. The man who haunted himself, Trog.
Okay, not everything was good. Vampire Circus. He'll be back in Vampire Circus.
So, you know the He's one of those guys that once you spotted him, I guarantee now that you can't go on to Talking Pictures TV, which is a, you know, for American and other overseas listeners, it's a TV station over here which specializes in showing old stuff.
>> Uhhuh.
>> Old film and TV. go on there and I bet you Thory Walters turns up at least once a day in something. [laughter] You know, he was just so ubiquitous.
[clears throat] He's just amazing. I absolutely adore the guy. He's one of those guys, a bit like Michael Ripper that when he turns up, you just think, "Yeah, all's well with the world."
>> Fine. I'm safe. We're good.
>> Yeah, we're good now because here comes Thley. It's great.
>> Well, I can tell you what now. Whenever I spot him in anything, I'm going to be like, "Oh, it's Ludvig." Because >> it's Ludwig. [laughter] Yeah, exactly.
>> I loved him. He's great. He's really good fun. He's always going to be Ludvig to you, isn't he?
>> He is. That's it now. Yeah, >> he is. Yeah, absolutely.
>> I mentioned there about Ludvig eating the flies um in that kind of very sort of Renfield way that we uh we vampire and and Dracula and noseratu fans have come to know and love.
>> Yeah.
>> Um and there's there are a few sort of classic tropes showing up in in Dracula Prince of Darkness. We've got um we've got the flies. you've got kind of, you know, coachmen refusing to take travelers the whole way. Um, and it's interesting what you said earlier about there sort of being this slightly repetitive nature of Jimmy Sangster's screenplay for this one.
>> But I tell you what is a lot of fun and that is all the blood. So, please can we talk about the resurrection scene?
>> Oh my good god. Yeah, we we take it as red that this is going to be one of my key moments in the film, but bloody hell is it good. Is it good?
>> So good.
>> Clove captures Allan, strings him upside down over Dracula's coffin, his sarcophagus, puts um Dracula's ashes, presumably he'd come back from his holiday and swept up the the the library room where he got killed in the first film. and he'd been keeping them all these years and he put it in the sarcophagus and then he cuts Allan's He doesn't cut his throat, does he? I think he guts him, doesn't he?
>> Well, I I mean, I thought he cut his throat and then after you cut back to the sarcophagus about four times and the blood is still pouring out of him, I'm thinking, >> but yeah, maybe maybe he did go a bit more overboard because Jesus Christ >> cuz there's a loss of blood. I mean, there's probably more blood than Allan actually had if we're being honest, but who cares? It works. It's a magnificent sequence. And it's this sort of torrent of blood. I mean, there's no other way to describe. It sounds like a really bad ' 70s sort of Z movie, doesn't it?
Torrent of Blood. [laughter] But which of course >> Gordon Lewis presents, >> which of course I would go watch right now because that's the kind of guy I am here. Torren of Blood. Oh yeah, must watch that one tonight. You know, let's not worry about Oscar winners. Torrent of Blood. Need to see that. But [laughter] there is this torrent of blood into the sarcophagus and it's a terrific scene because we see like this smoke starts to pour billow into the sarcophagus >> and then we cut to the side to a side shot of it and his hand comes out and it's like Dracula has reconstituted himself.
>> Well, this is it. I mean, yeah, the smoke really comes in, I think, at the point that the the kind of special effects would need to snap over into it actually being Christopher Lee, which maybe they didn't quite have the budget or the technology for, but up until that point, the kind of reconstitution of Dracula is [ __ ] brilliant. Like >> it's amazing >> the way that obviously because you know we saw in um Dracula 1958 and also at the beginning of this one um where he's kind of crumbling to pieces and this is almost the same thing but in reverse and they're building up the layers.
>> Yeah.
>> Very slowly and very deafly. And I [snorts] was watching it thinking Christ alive like whoever's done the um the effects on this has absolutely crushed it. And then you're right the the smoke then sort of envelops the whole thing and then you cut and then the hand comes over and I was like oh [ __ ] [laughter] >> Yeah. And it's so clever because it's so economical that just having the hand as the first absolutely image >> and it's really really clever and I think you know thinking about it people correct me if I'm wrong here I think this is the first time we've seen a vampire being reconstituted on screen >> prior to this I think it was the accepted fact that when a vampire died they died >> they were destroyed and that was it.
There was no way back for them. Um certainly the Universal series um they kill they stake Dracula off camera of course and um he's gone. Bella Los is gone. We don't see him again until Abbert and Costello meet Frankenstein.
Is it um terrible film anyway but >> Kevin would you stop slagging off Abbert and Costello meets Frankenstein?
>> I can't stand it. I'm so sorry. See, if if if I'm just about sort of winning them back here, I think with my sort of like, you know, praising of Dracula, Prince of Darkness, and now they've just hang on a minute. Put put the wicker man back up. He doesn't like Abbert and Castella. Meet Frankenstein. [laughter] So that film >> a lot of people do. And again, it's just I just don't like Abbert and Castella. I just they just annoy me. But anyway anyway, he that Dracula I don't think he's meant to be the same Dracula as we see in 1931. It's a different character really just played by the same actor.
Well, I mean, it's it's almost a sort of different um a different reality, different timeline, different universe, isn't it? That >> exactly. Exactly. So, we never see Bella Deosi being reconstituted. In fact, we see his body being burned in Dracula's Daughter.
>> Oh, >> so he's gone for good. And every other vampire film after that, I think, were kind of one-offs.
>> Yeah. You just sort of get a new one each time.
>> That's right. Yeah. And so I think this I think I'm right in saying this is the first time we see a vampire being reconstituted on screen.
>> Well, I tell you what, they really do it well. I mean, >> they do it so well.
>> I know that it's an extremely different film and and very differently um uh sort of >> what's the word? Executed for one of a better word. Um but it there it had shades of Hellraiser.
>> Yeah. of Uncle Frank coming back in the attic, you know, just like not not really in terms of kind of the gore and the effects and stuff, but it just brought that to mind for me the way that he's kind of built back up, you know.
>> Yeah. I think to be honest, if they could afford to do it, they would have done that. They would have made it look like Hellraiser >> and you know the the sensors be damned.
The sensors were never going to love this anyway. You know, they were always going to complain about it. There was one of their examiners at the BBFC, guy called Frank Croft, read the script and dismissed it as a silly piece of CAC.
And I mentioned that simply because we don't hear the word CAC quite enough these days. And I think we should bring it back. So from now on, we should refer to things we don't like as being kac.
>> Being absolute kac. We'll save that one for 1970. Marvelous. Marvelous. But but yeah, I think they would have done it. I think they would have made a very gory resurrection because my god, there's enough blood elsewhere in this film. My word, it's honestly I was I was rubbing my hands together.
>> And also a quick shout out to Charles Tingwell who dangles over that sarcophagus upside down for what feels like a solid 5 minutes.
>> Yeah, fair play to the man. I mean, the character is not very nice, but he's hanging there and that's definitely him, isn't it? You see his face? Well, it definitely is because because he's literally like dangling from essentially a winch on the ceiling. He keeps sort of spinning around. [laughter] Yeah.
>> Yeah. So, fair play to the man. That can't have been a comfortable day's work.
>> No. No. Really? Yeah. So, credit where credit's due.
>> Credit where credits due. But what a sequence in total. And you know, so yeah. Okay. We don't like Allan very much cuz he's a bit of a dick, but bloody hell, what a way to exit a film, >> you know. What a way to to to step out of the story. That's incredible, isn't it?
>> And then Kev when Charles finds him.
>> Yeah.
>> And he's basically been like unceremoniously stuffed into a a sort of travel chest.
>> A trunk. Yeah.
>> A trunk.
>> And Charles comes down. This is during that slightly pointless bit when Diana's back down at the cabin. Um, and and Charles is sort of uh searching the castle and he comes down to the basement and sees this trunk with literally just like an arm sticking out of it, which I thought was quite a nice sort of visual um mirroring to Dracula's hand coming out of the sarcophagus actually.
>> Yes, good point. Yes. And then he opens the lid. And obviously we don't see what he sees, but we saw enough of what happened to Allan earlier. He was essent he was initially stabbed in the back.
Then he either had his throat slit or he was like gutted from groin to sternum, you know. Um, and he opens the lid and just sees his older brother there in god knows what state. And his reaction is so good. It's both horrifying and pretty heartbreaking actually.
>> It is. It is. I think the fact that the the travel trunk is quite clearly a lot smaller than Allan when Allan is standing up.
>> Yes.
>> Suggests that something really nasty has happened to his body parts.
>> 100%.
>> That's why they never show it to us, I think, because our imagination fills in that gap.
>> Exactly. And it's I found it truly horrifying. I thought it was amazing moment for a horror film. Yeah, really good. After this grizzly discovery, >> Charles and Diana manage to escape um and they get down to the monastery. This is where you start, you know, meeting the monks and and Ludik and that kind of thing.
>> And um Barbara Shell's Helen has had her awakening. [laughter] >> Yes. and is now proper Barbara Shelly where she's, you know, um, sort of lustful and and and starving hungry and she's got this bloodthirst and, uh, she's sort of nashing her teeth at people. Um, and you get this moment where Clove has popped them both in the back of a covered wagon in these uh sort of uh very tightly um secured very tightly secured uh coffins. And he comes down and um he says to one of the monks, "Oh, uh can I get a room please?" And the monk says, "No, we've, you know, we can't do it tonight, but um, you know, you can sort of hang around in the grounds or whatever."
>> Yeah.
>> Now, we assume that Clove wanted to get inside so that he can then invite the other the the vampires in luckily for the vampires. We don't need him to do that because Ludvig's in there.
>> That's right. Yeah. So, we get this lovely moment first where um Helen knocks on the window of Diana and she's saying, "Um, oh, oh, Diana, um, everything's okay. I've gotten away from him. Please let me in.
It's ever so cold out here." And Diana's like, "I don't know about this, actually." But she does seem very much, you know, back to normal Helen. And so she opens the window and Helen gets in just enough to bite her on the wrist.
>> That's right. Yeah. And then there's quite a funny moment. Makes me laugh anyway when Dracula pulls her out of the window and sticks his head through the window. Bloodshot eyes which I think I don't know why it just makes me laugh that moment. Shame. Yeah. He like, "Oh, look. Boo through the window. Here is Johnny." [laughter] >> It is a bit here's Johnny. It definitely is. Um and then Shandor. um comes in and obviously he he knows what to do. So he takes um poor Diana's arm and basically presses it on the um the kind of top of like a gas lamp.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> To sort of cauterize the wound >> which obviously we've seen before. Um Peter Cushing did something quite similar, didn't he? In Brides.
>> Brides. That's right. Y >> um so you know Shandor's got the he's got the knowledge, he's got the skills, he knows what to do, so she's fine. Um and then this is when they get um Helen into the room and this is where we get this incredible sequence of um between Barbara Shelley and Andrew Kia and that that staking of her which is >> again fullon. It is. It's magnificent.
It's the finest moment in the film by a very very very long way for me.
>> Yeah. Um and again doesn't you know sort of doesn't pull its punches at all. Like you know this the one thing I will say um about this film in terms of the horror is it really does lean into it.
So I can see I mean in some ways it surprises me that all the sensors said was that it was CAC because I would have thought that they would have like you know it's a blood bath basically.
>> Yeah. Yeah. You can't get away with all this nonsense Mr. Hammer. They just didn't like it. Exactly.
>> They just didn't like it yet. Which just seems really weird, doesn't it?
Considering that they were sort of so sort of fussy about other earlier films which are far less gory than this.
>> Definitely. Yeah. I guess you know maybe the times they are are changing.
>> Oh, most definitely they are. Yes.
>> Um and then we get you know the classic.
Um, and again I suppose coming back to your point earlier about Sangster's screenplay, I keep sort of saying, you know, then we get the classic, then we get the classic. It's like it does feel tropey. So >> it does.
>> Dracula manages to um get uh Diana out.
Um, Clove puts them both in their own coffins and drives them off to the castle. And so, um, Shandor and Charles, uh, take chase on the horses. I thought the whole horse chase, [laughter] not it's not a car chase, it's a horse chase.
>> A horse chase.
>> Um, was thrilling. I thought it was great.
>> Oh, yeah. Yeah. I agree. I love it. It's great. Very exciting.
>> Certain moments that I thought were quite obviously uh sped up by half a >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. And there are a couple of very obvious stunt men on hand as well, but you know, we've discussed that. We've discussed that.
>> Um, and then they get up to the castle.
You keep getting these shots inside the back of the covered wagon. Um, yeah, >> where one of them is I don't One of them's moving around a lot and the other one isn't moving around at all. And I suppose we're led to believe that Diana's is the one that's moving around a lot cuz maybe she's trying to get out.
>> Right. Good point. I hadn't thought of that. No.
>> Or it's Dracula's one that is moving around a lot because it hasn't been secured properly because what happens is when um the c the carriage gets up to the castle, it doesn't have a driver by this point because they've seen off Clo further down the mountain. Um it kind of crashes. Yeah.
>> And Dracula's coffin like falls off the back of it and slides over the ice. in what over what I assume is like the moat like the the moat outside of the castle.
>> Well, there's a little bit of confusion there because Father Shandor says that um flowing water will kill or drown a vampire.
>> Yes, >> it wouldn't be flowing if it was in a moat.
>> Ah, >> however, if you cast your mind back to Dracula, we did see a stream outside his castle.
>> I remember commenting on how beautiful it all was.
>> Yeah. And it's a bit bigger here, but 10 years have passed. Who knows? You know, maybe erosion works a lot faster than we thought it did, particularly in Hammer World. But, um, yeah, I think I think it is possibly meant to be the stream that we saw, >> right, >> in the first film rather than just the moat, cuz the moat would be still water.
>> Yeah, it would, wouldn't it? But it has to be flowing for what happens next.
>> That's right.
>> Which is the most anticlimactic, disappointing Dracula death I think I have ever seen in a Dracula film. I mean, fair play to them. They're trying something new, but yeah, they just they shoot the ice out from under him and he falls into the river.
>> Yeah.
>> And he's like, "Okay, yeah, I kind of get it." Maybe they were kind of thinking, you know, that Peter Cushing chap had a good point in the first film about him sort of whipping out crucifixes, becoming a traveling crucifix salesman. So, we came up with something different.
>> Yeah. Okay. Then we had Bride of Dracula where, you know, we used the windmill, the shadow of the windmill.
>> Oh, god. Oh, the wind.
>> That was great, wasn't it? It was terrific. We need to try something different with this one. But yeah, it is kind of cuz you just think Dracula, I know he's only just been resurrected, but you know, he's he's a strong guy.
He's been around for a long time. He just stands there and he doesn't even try to run away. He just stands there as they keep shooting the ice. They shoot it about six times and he just stands there and then oh they've shot it enough times and now it's broken and then he screams a lot as he goes into the water.
It's like firstly we've been told that it's not like it disintegrates a vampire. They can drown in moving water.
So what is exactly is he screaming at and why didn't he just move while they were shooting the ice?
>> The the thing I do like about it is that it's Diane who takes the first shot. Oh, I know.
>> Because she doesn't take no for an answer when Shandor said, "No, it won't it won't kill him." So, she fires the first shot. She's not a very good shot and she misses him. But that's what gives Shandor the idea.
>> Exactly.
>> To shoot out the So, I do like that it's Diane who's like, I I'll take I'll take the I'll take the the gun. Yeah, I'll do it. If you won't do it, I bloody will.
So, fair play. Go Diana. That's brilliant.
>> Definitely. No. Yeah, that after the um the sort of uh interaction with Dracula, that's definitely Diana's uh >> It is, isn't it? Yeah.
>> Second best moment in the whole film, I think. Yeah. It's good to good to see her standing up for a bloke.
>> Yeah. [laughter] But I know you mean about it being underwhelming. It is a slightly odd >> ending, isn't it? And again, again, I know that I keep making this point, but maybe it wouldn't have felt so underwhelming to me if you hadn't shown me the spectacular death of Dracula at the end of the first film.
>> That's right. Yeah. I think had they had more money, they could have made it more spectacular having him run down the ice >> and they keep taking pot shots at him and the the the ice sort of cracks and chases the crack chases him down the the ice until he catches him. That might have been quite a good agree quite a good one. Although we do know from Kiss of the Vampire, I think that they turn into bats in that do they >> or do they just have bats as familiars?
Why didn't they just turn into a bat and fly away? You know, it's like, come on, Dracula. You've been so clever up to this point.
>> Well, they No, they definitely do in Brier Dracula cuz I remember you making you making the point that um that I can't remember what the vampire's name is in that one, but >> Baron M.
>> Um he has been, you know, chained up with like a silver, you know, ball and chain or something for for years and years on end. You were like, why don't you just turn into a brat? But >> bat and fly away. Yeah. See, why if I didn't track it? But but then we wouldn't have been able to end the film.
I give them kudos for trying something different.
>> I just don't think it works.
>> Not s Yeah. The the execution doesn't just quite work for me. No. And again, when you've seen one of the best ones right at the beginning of the film and then you follow up [laughter] with this, it's like, oh well, never mind.
>> Okay. Yeah. Bit of a step down, guys.
Bit of a step down. [laughter] >> Um, yeah. And that's it. Credits. So, let's talk about some favorite moments, Kev, to round things off. Um, >> I have already mentioned a couple of mine.
Um, obviously Alan's death and the resurrection, chef's kiss.
>> Um, the the line, I'm sorry if we appear a little dense, but perhaps you can explain. Beautiful.
>> I love that, too. There's also a really lovely exchange that we haven't mentioned yet between Diana and Charles.
She's getting ready for bed. He comes into their bedroom at the castle and uh puts his hands over her eyes and says, "Guess who?" And she says, "Horris Peabody."
>> And he's [laughter] like, >> "No, no, you know, it's me." Haha. And then he goes, "Hang on a minute. Who's Horus Peabody?"
>> Horus. [laughter] Oh, you know, he was uh he was my first love or something like that. It's a very it's a quick exchange, but it's very cute. These two sets them up as this quite is just very likable couple. Actually, >> it's the sort of thing couples would do.
It's the sort of thing that, you know, a real life Diana would actually do just to wind Charles up a little bit just to sort of like, you know, haha, made you jealous, didn't I? E.
>> Yeah, exactly. [laughter] >> Yeah. He's very playful. I do like it. I do as well. And you know, it does it it does that classic thing that you want horror to do um when you need someone to root for. And I've got to admit, I'm you know, I'm rooting for these two. They're cute, >> of course.
>> But maybe my absolute favorite bit of the entire film is when [laughter] Shandor first comes into the inn and he says, um, "Excu," he says to the Kents, "Excuse me, um, could I, uh, get close to the fire, please?" And then you are not expecting and again this is coming back to my point that Father Shandor is not your stereotypical monk because what he does is he immediately hikes up the back of his robes >> and [laughter] puts his bum basically straight up to the fire and warms his backside and he says something like, "Thank my calling still allows me the pleasure of a warm posterior.
Yeah. [laughter] >> And that is the very second we fall in love with Father Shandor.
>> Yeah.
>> That's the very second we think, "Oh, you're all right. I like you. You're all right."
>> So funny.
>> It is great, isn't it?
>> Really good. How about you, Kev? What are your faves?
>> We've spoken about most of the resurrection, Helen's death. Just to add to the um scene of Helen at Diana's bedroom window where she says, "Let me in. It's cold out here."
Haven't read the book for decades now.
But isn't that a bit Wthering Heights.
>> Oh, >> with a ghost of Kathy at the window.
>> Oh, again. I mean, >> am I remembering that right? Am I remembering that? Or am I remembering the Kate Bush song? You know, it's cold and I've come home and all the rest of it.
>> Yeah. Oh, no. Don't sing it cuz I'm going to have to go and play it afterwards and it'll be in my head for weeks afterwards. You're welcome.
>> Not a bad thing. Not a bad thing. And then you can put on then you can put on Kate Bush's Hammer Horror directly after and have yourself a lovely afternoon.
>> Just a moment while I I get my composure back. I've mentioned Kate Bush and Barbara Shel [laughter] one episode. I I've got all funny now. But yeah, I think I think if I remember the book properly, she is at the window. So the ghost of Kathy is at the window saying it's I'm so cold.
>> I'm sure you're right. I've got to admit I haven't read the whole thing through.
I bought the book after the recent Emerald Fel film, which I didn't think was particularly good, but did immediately make me want to go and [laughter] actually go back to the source material.
And >> it doesn't even have the ghosts in it, does it? The recent one. No classic thing of going straight um to, you know, a bookshop and picking up a lovely penguin copy. [laughter] Um and I've got about three chapters into it and got distracted and put it back down again. So, I don't know when whenever I pick it back up and get to the ghosts, then I'll be able to confirm. Yay or nay.
>> One day, I will actually take a photograph the absolute [ __ ] hole I live in, which is just full of books and records and DVDs and Blu-rays and magazines, 90% of which I've never read, listened to, watched. They're just here because one day I will get round to it.
>> Exactly. What happens if that moment happens when you desperately need it?
>> Kev, what happens if it sells out and it's then £200 to buy it and oh no, I've got to have it. So, I'm just surrounded.
So, I'm like you. I got to have it. Got to have it. I watched 633 Squadron, the war film the other day. I bought a paperback copy of the original book.
It's sitting here on my desk. I haven't opened it. It's been here a week and a half.
>> Exactly. This is it.
>> I just keep looking at the picture on the cover. It's really nice. But anyway, back back to the story. Um, yes. So, the the the vampire at the window also maybe anticipating Salem's loss a little bit.
>> That's what it made me think of for sure.
>> So, that's good. I've got a line of dialogue which I like. you you've pointed out a few, but um Charles is talking to Shandor and Shandor is is reading off the ways they can kill Dracula. You know, we can stake him, we can expose him to daylight, we can drown him, all the rest of it. And Charles just dead pans. You make it sound comparatively simple. I [laughter] think it's really lovely. The way completely underestimates what he's up against, but really in a very sort of British selfacing, very sort of dead pan way.
>> Very Yeah, it's great. I honestly I really really like Francis Matthews in this film. I think >> I do. I think he's terrific, isn't he?
He's just he's kind of overshadowed by the fact that you got Christopher Lee, Andrew Kieran, and and you know, Barbara Shell in it. Otherwise, he would be top of the list. One final one final thing.
Um, you talked about he doesn't disintegrate when he goes into the pond into the the river. In fact, he doesn't.
The very final shot of the film that comes up just as the end credits appear is a face under the water and we can't quite make it out. Has it been eroded?
Is it just sort of like deathly cold under that water and gone white? But it's very spooky face just seen under the ice just at the last second.
>> That is such a good shout. Yeah, you're absolutely right. It is a really creepy shot.
>> So there you go naysayers. I don't hate this bloody film at all. I don't I don't rate it as high as Dracula or Brides of Dracula, but I do like it. All right, so stop your bloody moaning. [laughter] >> Where will you rank it? Are we going elite, upper, middle, or lower?
>> I'm going to say it's upper.
>> Oh, >> you know, despite my reputation for hating it.
>> Well, there you go.
>> I'm going to say it's lower, upper.
Yeah. But I think you know you can't have a Jimmy Sangster script, Terrace Fisher direction, Andrew Kia, Barbara Shel, Christopher Lee, Francis Matthews all in one film and it not be an upper class film. You know, they all bring their their agame. So, it's got some shortcomings. For me, the chief shortcoming is that it's not as good as the first two films. That's all it is.
>> That's all it is. There's a lot to love about this film.
>> Yeah, I agree. I would also go lower upper. I think there was part of me that was thinking upper middle. Yeah. Um mainly to be honest for a couple of the key reasons that we've discussed you know 45 minutes without Dracula.
>> But you are absolutely right that if you are going to spend 45 minutes without him at least it's nice spending some time with the Kents.
>> Exactly. Yes. And Helen's death scene alone that elite.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> It's just everything else brings it back down a bit. And the resurrection scene.
Those two are elite moments in an an upper tier film. Yeah.
>> Yeah. There you go.
>> Um and I think I probably would have gone up a middle if you'd asked me at the beginning the chat. But as is often the way, Kev, >> um we've had we've had so much fun talking about this one and and you know like you you were like God know actually I really do like this film. You know there's there is so much to like. So I will I'll join you in the lower upper echelons.
>> Well thank god that's over. There's a load of rubbish. Oh sorry we still are.
Sorry. Oops. [laughter] [music] >> Thanks for listening to Hammer Time.
We'll be back next week with Oh my god, this is one of my faves. This is one of the ones, Kev, that I watched before we It was just It was my handful of Hammer films that I'd seen >> before we uh started doing this podcast.
And it was at the top of my sort of half a dozen that I'd seen because I love this film so much and I cannot wait to revisit it.
>> I tell you what, I tell you what. Let's have a week off. Play with the zombies.
Bloody brilliant. There you go. We'll see you in two weeks. You don't need to say anything else. [laughter] >> How dare you? I've been looking forward to talking about this one since we started this bloody podcast.
>> That's why I said it. [laughter] >> The plague of the zombies from 1966. Uh you can find this on VOD if you're watching along and it's again part of that classic um Hammer Collection box set from Studio Canal.
To check out the full list of movies we'll be covering throughout the podcast, head to evolutionofhor.com/hammer.
We'd love to hear from you. So please send us questions or comments for upcoming mailbag episodes. You can drop us an email to [email protected].
You can follow the Evolution of Horror Network on Instagram at Eoh_network and on Blue Sky, evolution of horror.
You can follow me on Instagram and Blue Sky, Bunny Dark. And on Letterboxed, I'm Becky Dark. And Kev, where can people find you and your work online?
>> Um, EOFFTV is the key thing here. You can find me as on Blue Sky, Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, but also my website is eofftv.com or you can search for eofftv review and you can go and find the review that got me into trouble about Dracula Prince of Dance. [laughter] >> Turn off your comments.
>> Turn I'm I'm just going to go to bed and stay there for a couple of weeks now.
So, [laughter] >> don't forget to rate and review us on your podcast app of choice. Thank you for listening. Join us again next week for another episode of Hammer Time.
>> [music]
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