Don’t Get Cocky: Humility Through Desolation | Ignatian Rule 11 Explained

[00:00:00]He said, but you need to recognize that that desolation is a gift. When you're going to give talks to these guys, God is allowing this desolation to happen so you can be brought down to where they're currently at. Like they're in the valley.

[00:00:13]>> The greatest trick [music] the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.

[00:00:18]>> I didn't know this was a fight.

[00:00:19]>> That's why you're losing.

[00:00:21]>> Today we are beginning either to domesticate the devil or else to [music] deny him.

[00:00:27]He is most powerful when he is denied.

[00:00:31]>> Welcome to the devils in the details.

[00:00:32]The devil may be in the details, but God is on the throne.

[00:00:36]We are on rule 11 of 14 of Ignatius discernment of spirits.

[00:00:42]>> Yeah.

[00:00:43]>> Um hopefully this series has been helpful. If it has, make sure to let us know in the comments. We appreciate everyone who comments and shares and likes everything. It helps us reach more people. But uh with that, how can humility help me rule 11? How can humility help me deal with the ebb and flow of consolation and desolation?

[00:01:03]>> So, since you started, I'll read the rule. You can jump in. Let the one who is consoled seek to humble himself and low- and lower himself as much as he can, thinking of how little he is capable of in the time of desolation without such grace or consolation.

[00:01:20]On the contrary, let one who is in desolation think he can do much with God's sufficient grace to resist all his enemies, taking strength in his creator and lord.

[00:01:29]So, it's just a caution. It's And he gives a number of these cautions about how to handle consolation. When you're in consolation, um which we we talked a little bit about before, but he's saying one of the important things to do when you're in consolation is pursue humility.

[00:01:52]Because one of the reasons is is that especially for those who are younger in the faith and haven't been really fighting the battle a long time will tend to kind of think, "Oh, I'm doing great."

[00:02:05]And it's I'm doing great and I feel great because I am great and I have done great things, you know.

[00:02:13]And and then a little desolation causes devastation.

[00:02:18]Cuz now what do you What do you tend to do when you have that thinking, "Oh, I'm bad. I've done the wrong thing."

[00:02:26]You know, and it isn't always the case.

[00:02:28]You can You can be in desolation and do and be cuz >> Do the right thing.

[00:02:33]>> Because you're doing the right thing.

[00:02:35]>> Right.

[00:02:35]>> You know.

[00:02:36]So, if you don't have the proper mindset about, you know, how to rest when the storm abates, then you you can you can get really sideswiped by the storm. I don't know if that makes sense.

[00:02:50]>> It reminds me of the the parable of the seed and the sower, the seed that grows or is thrown to the rocks or on the path and it grows up fast, but as soon as the sun comes out it gets scorched.

[00:02:58]>> Right. With shallow roots.

[00:03:00]>> Yeah. You see that all I mean, I see it all the time on social media with people. It's a little unfortunate, but it's fascinating to think of it in the context of desolation as well cuz that's essentially what it is. If you don't have the strong enough root, I guess in this case of humility, then you're going to get taken out.

[00:03:18]>> Yeah, I was listening to uh uh some reflections on humility and obedience this morning and and uh humility is a very hard uh very hard uh virtue to come by.

[00:03:33]And so, we need to really ask the Lord.

[00:03:35]So, then in contrast to when you're in consult, you know, humble yourself as much as you can thinking how little capable he is in the time of desolation. So, he's saying the way you humble yourself is that you think about how low you were and how hard it was when you were in desolation.

[00:04:02]And you realize, yeah, without God's help, especially I think that's especially true for people who are new and you can relate to this cuz you're kind of just a few years back into your into your reversion, but when you're brand new, you know, desolation is much more scary, much more dominant, much more, you know, so it's it's easier to reflect on how the battles you lost while in desolation. I don't know if that any of this is ringing true for you.

[00:04:35]>> Yeah, a little bit. I mean, it I it has been a little more than a few years. So, looking back is a little bit harder.

[00:04:42]Um and not having the context of this understanding at that time makes it hard to recognize those moments where I could have followed these rules, you know?

[00:04:51]>> Yeah. There was a lot of hardship, for sure.

[00:04:54]>> Maybe >> I can think [clears throat] of one that may I don't know if it relates uh we won't talk details. So, let's stay surface level.

[00:05:00]But there's a person in your life in your past who's done you a good bit of harm.

[00:05:05]And whenever they would contact you up until now, it would plummet you into desolation.

[00:05:13]>> Yeah. Yeah, that's true.

[00:05:13]>> You know?

[00:05:14]And and how hard was it to get out of that desolation when it happened?

[00:05:19]>> Yeah, extremely hard.

[00:05:20]>> Yeah. I mean, so that's probably a good example of of uh of a way to consider it. Think about cuz we often think of we can think about desolation consolation in abstract, which is one of the things I've been really trying to do in this series is you and I have real honest conversations. Cuz I have, by the way, exact same thing.

[00:05:40]>> Right. Right.

[00:05:40]>> I experienced exact same thing.

[00:05:42]>> Right.

[00:05:43]>> Um but bring it into real life circumstance so people can apply it. It's not just, you know, theoretical.

[00:05:51]But, anytime you're brought low, uh and it and you don't fight it immediately, and it settles in, and it and it feels like depression, you know, that's what people will often call depression, this is what he's talking about, you know.

[00:06:08]>> Yeah, I remember, um back when I was giving talks more often, I would get hit with desolation, and I didn't know what necessarily was going on. I just knew that every time I agreed to give a talk somewhere, it was like just the week prior was just a mess.

[00:06:25]>> [clears throat and cough] >> And I was uh emotionally just racked and all that kind of stuff.

[00:06:30]And so, I was talking to my spiritual director about it, and he and he said, "You know, I think you need to start looking at He He called it what it was.

[00:06:36]He's like, "Well, you're in desolation."

[00:06:38]He said, "But, you need to recognize that that desolation is a gift. Because he and maybe this leans into the humility a little bit, but he said, "When you're going to give talks to these guys, God is allowing this desolation to happen, so you can be brought down to where they're currently at. Like, they're in the valley, and you're not in the valley anymore. So, it's a it's a humility and a reminder of what it was like to be in that valley, so that you can better communicate the message to these guys in there."

[00:07:04]>> Oh, interesting.

[00:07:06]>> So, that helped me a lot. So, that's one of the reasons why, even though I'm not good at recognizing desolation all the time, I'm sure I've said that on some of the other episodes, it doesn't have such a hold on my emo- It doesn't have such a sway on my emotions because of that conversation and recognizing this is a tool, or could be used as a tool, essentially.

[00:07:26]>> Right.

[00:07:27]>> And so, my mindset shifted, and now it's desolation, it's like, "Okay, well, something's going on, but it is what it is. Let's move forward."

[00:07:33]>> Yeah.

[00:07:34]>> You know, so I don't know if that that seemed That's a easier example for me than some of the other stuff in the past, I guess.

[00:07:40]>> That makes sense. That makes sense. On the contrary, let the one who is in desolation think he can do much with God's sufficient grace to resist all of his enemies taking strength in his creator and lord and and as we've said over and over and I and it so I don't like repetition. I always tell people who are public speakers, never say uh again.

[00:07:59]>> Which I do a lot.

[00:08:01]>> You should never say it because it's for an astute listener, what they they hear is I I already heard this. I'm not listening now. It's uh you know, um but Ignatius does repeat things over and over and we really should like scripture does too and and I always say, listen more, not less.

[00:08:22]>> Right.

[00:08:23]>> When when the word of God repeats itself and when you have dealing with a saint and wisdom, listen more, not less.

[00:08:29]Um but he's once again saying, here's how you should think when you're in desolation, he says specifically, you can do well of much with God's grace to resist all his enemies taking strength in him.

[00:08:47]So, realize you're you're you're in desolation, you should literally tell yourself I can fight this. I can overcome this, you know.

[00:08:55]I'm in a little bit of physical desolation this morning. I this never-ending cold or whatever is going on since I got back from North Dakota.

[00:09:06]And boy, I did not feel like working out, you know. And you could say that I you could even say I'm probably a little bit in the spiritual desolation side as well.

[00:09:17]And it's just I'm talking to myself and I'm saying, just get on the treadmill.

[00:09:21]>> Right.

[00:09:22]>> Cuz I otherwise it's too big, right?

[00:09:26]Whenever you're in desolation, let's just be honest, it turns you into a bit of a wimp in terms of you know, you're not a giant slayer when you're in desolation.

[00:09:36]You're a mouse slayer when you're in desolation.

[00:09:38]>> Right. So, slay mice, you know? So, so I on my schedule this morning is treadmill and I'm training for the Camino that we're going to do and there's a particular part of the Camino that just about killed me last last year.

[00:09:56]And so, I knew I passed the first test Saturday morning in terms of a particular distance at a particular incline at a particular, you know, pace. I knew this morning I was going up.

[00:10:11]>> Yeah.

[00:10:11]>> Did my heart rate variation test. I was in the yellow, which is not in not green. Green means you're you can kill it if you want. So, I'm in yellow, which affects me.

[00:10:25]And I'm feeling yellow, you know? And uh which means your body's in a I think it's called a parasympathetic state where it wants to more focus more on recovery. So, I'm thinking, "Okay, but I want to I want to do the challenge, but I know if I stay in zone two, I know people are like, "What are you talking about?" It's just a particular heart rate zone that that allows your body to recover. If I can stay in zone two and just get through it, I'll be fine. And I blocked myself from thinking about the weightlifting after.

[00:10:58]Cuz I was think cuz I started to think I'm not going to lift weights today.

[00:11:02]Yeah. I'm in yellow, you know, but I want to do the the walking because if I don't or the hiking cuz you know, I'll just end up suffering later.

[00:11:12]So, I just told myself, "Do not think about anything but the next step, you know?"

[00:11:17]And uh and I knew I'm sort of conditioned now after teaching this and talking about it for years. I know God's going to give me what I need as long as I put the next right step forward. So, I got on the treadmill.

[00:11:31]And it was than yesterday or Saturday. And so I I literally had to turn down the intensity to stay at a particular heart rate, you know, for for the recovery training.

[00:11:44]Then I But I did it. And then I got off and I prayed the rosary while I'm doing I got off the treadmill. I'm like, "Yeah, I'm going to go work out."

[00:11:52]But if you if you if you're not careful about taking every thought captive to obedience, which is what he's saying to do, think this way means what St. Paul said in Corinthians about taking every thought captive to obedience of Christ, then you will do the opposite. You'll say, "I can't do this.

[00:12:11]I don't feel good. I don't want to get up. I can't work. I'm I'm too overwhelmed. I'm too You know, I'm struggling too much." Whatever it is.

[00:12:19]And we all have reasons why we get overwhelmed and we struggle. And sometimes we do need to legitimately rest and you know, take it to have Sunday I rested a ton more than I normally do, although it it is a normal rest day for me. I was more inactive, you know.

[00:12:37]I don't know if any of this is making sense.

[00:12:40]So, think you can do much with God's sufficient grace.

[00:12:44]And so, do that, but also just practically little bites. What's the What's the What's the next right step I need to take?

[00:12:53]And just and then choose to do it. And what normally happens, and I don't know if it You have examples or you What normally happens is you take the next right step because it's in the right direction, which is honoring him. The only reason I work out is to stop sinning against my body and to be a good steward of my body. I don't work out. I don't pose in front of the mirror or anything like that.

[00:13:19]You know, I'm just trying to be faithful.

[00:13:21]>> [clears throat] >> So, the next right step is to get on the treadmill. And that's a thing that honors God because my body is a temple of the Holy Spirit. So, I felt strength when I got on the treadmill that I that I that wasn't before there before I got on the treadmill. Then when I got off the treadmill, I felt strength, but I will even talk about So, I'm sorry I'm dominating this and I'll go back to you.

[00:13:44]Now, I'm looking at which which which set of exercises am I going to do today?

[00:13:49]>> Right.

[00:13:50]>> And I'm kind of thinking I should probably do one that I like more because they're all hard.

[00:13:57]>> Right.

[00:13:57]>> And but if I like a little more, it'll be easier today.

[00:14:01]So, I pick it's a chest day, but so it's all upper body upper torso and then there's a step up I I add a leg component every day as well just cuz I hate doing leg stuff.

[00:14:17]So, it spreads it across five days instead of one day.

[00:14:21]And I look at that and I went, "Okay.

[00:14:24]Don't think about that. Just do the first exercise. Then go do one of the chest one of the leg exercises. Then go back and I'm doing it alternatively. I'm not finishing a full, you know, set of either. I'm doing them back and forth to to minimize But it's just strategies you use like knowing yourself and then knowing what it what happens when you honor the Lord and then he gives you the strength. I don't know if all that makes sense.

[00:14:50]>> funny because I experienced something similar this morning just staying on the theme of exercise. I was in there at 4:30.

[00:14:56]>> Yeah.

[00:14:57]>> And just >> So, what do you do your mental prayer afterwards?

[00:15:00]>> I did my mental prayer before.

[00:15:01]>> You before? You got a pretty >> I don't I don't I don't do anything before mental prayer.

[00:15:05]>> got it Okay, that's great. That's good.

[00:15:07]>> mental prayer is the first thing.

[00:15:09]>> I know you get up that early. We probably talked about it.

[00:15:11]>> Well, my brain will not it's it's too active and chaotic.

[00:15:16]>> I'm the same. Yeah.

[00:15:17]>> I have to do it first thing in the morning where I can have much more control. It's dark outside. I have my candles. I have my Gregorian chant, I can really focus on.

[00:15:26]Um so, I was in there and I'm just ex- full body, you know how it is when you It's your body that's tired. Like mentally, I'm not tired. I'm actually doing okay, but my body is just not I don't have the juice.

[00:15:37]I've even had my pre-workout, I've done all this stuff. I just don't have the juice.

[00:15:41]And so, I'm pushing myself and pushing myself and then I finally got to the point where I was like, "Okay, I think I did what is reasonable." You know, I keep track of it all and I'm I lifted this amount of weight total and all this kind of stuff. Like I have a general goal.

[00:15:54]And I thought, "Okay, well, I think this is good. I'm also think that if I continue to push myself, I'm already dealing with the shoulder something going on with my shoulder. I need to just I need to be be careful in the midst of this.

[00:16:06]And so, I went home and I took a like 20-minute nap cuz I still >> [laughter] >> You know, I left you were in there.

[00:16:13]Yeah. When I left, it was 5 something. I was like, "Well, we we don't have a meeting till 9:00, so I'm I'm good."

[00:16:17]>> [laughter] >> I'm still able to >> Get some more regeneration.

[00:16:20]>> Yeah, get up [clears throat] and get back to it. But I think the whole point of saying that is that, you know, even in the midst that I wouldn't call that desolation for me, but I think it's applicable in the sense that you do what you can the next right thing.

[00:16:32]And I've said this a million times, you give yourself grace and to make sure that you can function well enough to keep fighting because the one the one thing I don't want people to hear with my example of taking desolation as a tool is maybe the hyper the hyper end of that, the negative end, which is like grit my teeth, fight through endlessly.

[00:16:54]It's like sometimes you got to rest. And correct me if I'm wrong with that, but I mean >> No, no, it's it is true in the sense that we should always fight desolation, but I mean in terms of fighting through, right? You know, we we have when you talk about human capacity and I've studied this in depth cuz I I used to have huge staff.

[00:17:14]And so, you let's say you have the total amount it represented by uh coaster the total amount of your ability to to work in a given day um to function and do that whatever.

[00:17:31]So that's total capacity. Out of that I like to s- split that up into two components.

[00:17:38]Demand capacity and regenerative capacity.

[00:17:44]So if my circle is let's say 5 in in diameter and I never allow for regenerative activity my circle will s- will shrink >> Mhm.

[00:17:56]>> every time I make that choice.

[00:17:59]So if it's 5 in in diameter and I and I spend regenerative capacity which increases my overall capacity. So that's sleep, exercise, or whatever. If I spend that in the demand capacity side which is what I have to spend to get work done then my overall capacity declines. And and what happens to people So let do that over and over and over for you know, just depends on how unhealthy a person is. If you add unhealthy eating and you know, too much alcohol or whatever you will end up with a crash.

[00:18:37]>> Right.

[00:18:37]>> And you you actually know people like this who they'll artificially inflate the diameter by working more hours and you just and that and there is no regeneration. And so they these the people who do that are people who just constantly getting sick and constantly >> stuff.

[00:18:55]>> burn out in quotes, depressed in quotes >> Right.

[00:18:59]>> when it's really just a self-destructive cycle of not of just imprudence. You know, we are we are finite beings.

[00:19:08]And I and you know, how many times have I been imprudent? About 3,000 until I started thinking about this stuff and realizing, you know, uh it's a trap when you when you don't rest.

[00:19:20]>> It's It reminds me of, you know, a lot of the um imagery that I go back to is war time imagery and fighting, which is used by the saints and it's in scripture even many times.

[00:19:33]But even in a war, so we're constantly in a war that is constantly going on, right? It is constant.

[00:19:39]>> Right. But there's even lulls in war.

[00:19:41]Yeah.

[00:19:42]>> You know?

[00:19:42]>> By God's mercy, in this case, he creates them.

[00:19:45]>> Right.

[00:19:46]>> Or he he he gives he blesses us with rest.

[00:19:48]>> So so you be aware, you you're on guard.

[00:19:51]>> Yeah.

[00:19:52]>> You fight when you need to and when is necessary.

[00:19:54]>> And you rest.

[00:19:55]>> And when and you rest when is necessary.

[00:19:56]>> And I'm terrible at resting.

[00:19:58]>> You and me both.

[00:19:59]>> Right.

[00:20:00]So we But the thing is, you know, in the end, if you don't, you will only you you'll only be able to do more for a short period.

[00:20:10]>> Right.

[00:20:10]>> And then everything's collapsed.

[00:20:12]But here's the other cool side of that coin, little different side is when you expand, when you protect regenerative capacity, so and this is actually there's this weird scientific reality here, too.

[00:20:29]So there are three zones an athlete can train in, zone two, three, and four. And just for sake of conversation, keep it simple.

[00:20:38]Zone two is where your heart rate is up, but you can still have a conversation, generally speaking, but it's the most you can do and still have a conversation. That would be the edge of zone two. For me, that's probably somewhere around 130 beats, you know, per minute. Um as soon as you start popping in over 130, I'm not talking to anybody. I'm just huffing and puffing.

[00:21:02]That's a zone that increases your cardiovascular capacity, but then red is a stress zone where you're really stressing, where you you can barely do it and you can you can't do it for very long.

[00:21:17]Historically, where athletes have endurance athletes have tried to make progress in their ability to endure is they push themselves on the way and zone three and four, you know, in those realms.

[00:21:31]But what they've discovered is if you if you operate in the regenerative capacity zone, which is that zone two, which means you push yourself, but it's it's to a limit that allows your body to recover, you actually increase the your ability to do the the higher end stuff.

[00:21:51]Does that make sense?

[00:21:52]>> Yeah, so it's so it's a little counterintuitive.

[00:21:55]>> Right, but that's I mean, what St. Ignatius is saying in this rule sounds counterintuitive to most people unless you actually, you know, go and think about it.

[00:22:04]>> Right.

[00:22:05]>> You know, the humility aspect. That's kind of what that sounds like.

[00:22:07]>> Yeah. Well, I think that's I think that gets us far enough on this rule today and then just to tease next week, pretty important rule coming up.

[00:22:18]Uh 13, next week will be 12, but which is a a good and important rule and then 13 will come, which is the next most important one other than rule five.

[00:22:27]If you only remember two rules, five and 13 will solve most of your spiritual issues.

[00:22:33]But so check us out next week.

[00:22:37]>> All right. Romans 16:20, the God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet. The grace of our Lord Jesus be with you. Amen.

[00:22:43]>> Amen.