Dr. Ramani provides a necessary clinical anchor in the often-shallow sea of self-help content. Her focus on systemic healing over mere labeling elevates the discourse on toxic relationships.
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Welcome, welcome, welcome. I'm still in Arizona just thinking about love and thinking about those crazy kids, Heidi Powell and Ryan Lochi, whoever she's dating nowadays. Um, so I'm still here in the love studio, but uh we're here to talk about something not loving, as some may say. We're here to talk about narcissism and things that are gold straight up and also to have deep belly laughs and also to talk about people's charisma that's straight up off the charts. So, who am I talking about? What am I saying? We're going to get to it right now.
>> Her charisma is straight up off the charts.
>> So, we're going to hear from Craig. So, this is a a double feature, if you will.
Craig Seagull, the guy who is creating lasting symphony in the lives of people around the world from his New Jersey apartment or wherever he lives, uh, New York. Uh, he got to interview Dr. Romney. And this is someone I've been wanting to talk about for a while. I have sort of complex I'm so complex feelings about her as a TV personality.
I think she's saturated the market of talking about narcissism, but I do wonder if too much is too much at a certain point because the fact that she's on every single TV show, she's on YouTube constantly. She does associate with known scammers in my opinion, J Shetty, Mel Robbins, has like a personal relationship with Will Smith, who I would argue is a narcissist.
Um, it's just an interesting position she's put herself in as this expert on narcissism and then seems to be surrounded by them constantly without pointing out the obvious that, hey, I'm on this podcast with a perfect candidate for what I'm talking about. Um, but is it, you know, my second dairy thought then is, well, you know, maybe she's reaching the audience that would listen to Mel Robbins and getting through them in a in a meaningful way and she shouldn't shy away from these grifter podcasts. So, I can see it both ways.
I'm willing to look into her more because I see her 247 basically on my feed. And as someone who's sought out narcissism content, like how to deal with narcissism, what is narcissism, what, you know, the personality traits, um, I, you know, obviously I say I saw her come up a lot and I'm sure my feed is feeding that even though I haven't really watched anything in like four or five years. Um, so all in all to say, I'm sort of on the fence about her at this point. Like I said, she was like hanging out at Will Smith's house more than I think is appropriate perhaps as like a clinical psychologist, but she does have schooling. She does work in an actual practice. So, she's not like a life coach. So, you know, credit where credit's due. She has an education and she seems to have knowledge. But at a certain point, does it become everyone could fit the bill of narcissism if you talk about it 48 hours a day? And also her book is called It's Not You.
And I feel like that's a blanket statement to narcissists that might be narcissists themselves who are now reading her book going, "Everyone else in my life's a narcissist." I'm curious as to how you determine if you are a narcissist or not. And I feel like she also, and this is just my intro to to before we get to the actual interview, I feel like she also um was going to say, demonizes them or or dehumanizes the narcissist. And that can be helpful at times because if you plead and beg and try to convince a person who's just not willing to to get feedback, you will, you know, bash your head into a wall at a certain point. But I think it's always a disservice, especially people with a clinical background or a psychological background, you know, not a life coach who's saying these people are, you know, monsters. They're evil. They're horrible. They're, you know, they're unrehabilitatable.
I I'm I feel like I don't know. I I feel like that would push me if I was a narcissistic person or felt like maybe I was. And I guess that's part of it. like you typically wouldn't think you are one if you are an actual narcissist, but what if someone's on the fence? Because I've seen TikToks of people who say they are diagnosed narcissists and they want to help people understand what it's like. And you know, I I just find it to be a closed off way or a way to shun a big part of the population, so it seems um from seeking help or or getting better. And and I just I don't know how how great that of a method that is cuz if she doesn't think of Will Smith and J Shetty and Mel Robbins as narcissists that need to be, you know, contained, then I don't know what a narcissist actually is.
So anyways, uh Brooke 4829, thank you so much to Brooke. Brooke says, "Bed jets are amazing. I hope you enjoy yours when you get it. Worth every penny." Okay, I do have a follow-up question for you, Brooke, about the BedJet, and the police are coming to arrest me right now, so I apologize. No, I'm just kidding. Um, but there are sirens in the background.
Okay. Um, if you don't have AC, which I don't, will it just blow hot air on my legs? Cuz that was a thing that I saw come up on a review on YouTube. They said that. So, a bedjet, by the way, is a tube that you put in to your sheets that blows air from a little box. Now, if I don't have air, like I don't have AC in the house, will it just blow hot air and make me just like feel like I have air on my legs? Please let me know.
And for that I say >> no big deal.
>> And also >> this is gold straight up.
>> And also Jeez, this is so good. That's not Craig.
>> Big facts.
>> But this is Craig.
>> Priceless juicy nuggets.
>> This is also not Craig. This is so profound.
Just so profound.
>> Deep belly laughs.
>> I hope we have some tonight. I really hope so. Brooke, what do you think? I hope we also have deep belly laughs every day. Oh, and Brooke is going to respond. I'm seeing it come up right now.
Uh, Brooke says, "No, you don't need AC.
It's not hooked up to an AC at all."
Okay, I might be back in. I might be back in because I just did not want it to be hot air on my legs for $400 because I think it's like what? Yeah, 400 for the mini. Um, which I'm willing to pay. I'm willing. I'm willing so I don't sleep. I can sleep at night, but I just need it to be worth it. But I guess there is a 60-day return policy, so maybe I try it and then see.
>> Um, thank you, Brooke, for responding that way. So amazing. Thank you so much.
>> Buzzing with joy.
>> Me after one good night of sleep. Uh, JB Nerdy, thank you so much, JB Nerdy. JLB Nerdy says, "Just here for more Craig nuggets." Well, you're in luck.
>> Priceless juicy nuggets.
>> JB Nerdy. So, >> one other thing that fascinates me about you is that you're from Canada.
>> And also, we have a lot of really great friends from >> from Canada. Are you from Canada? I don't remember.
I thought so, but now I'm having doubts.
>> You have to think instead of sitting around eating Skittles and watching Oprah reruns.
>> Solid advice for everyone. I'm sure Dr. Romney would agree. Thank you, JB Nerdy.
And thank you again to Brooke. Okay, so here's her page. She does a bazillion podcast. This woman is more is on more podcasts than I think exist. She's on more podcast than the podcasts that exist. Does that make sense? She's constantly out there. And I see um I see one of the comments. Hold on. Uh hold on. If you go back to her early career, she did the same thing with only weight loss. She did all the TV morning shows and had a bestselling book about food.
Yeah, she really seems to understand the landscape of how to promote yourself and to promote your product by using other people's platforms and she has a like a you know a degree and she has a medical background. So, it seems like she's really been able to capitalize on that quite a bit. And I have mixed feelings.
I do have mixed feelings about it all.
Okay, let's just watch a random one. Oh, look. Lisa Billou. I didn't even know I really did not know that that was who was going to be here.
And yet here we are. Another, you know, person in the griftosphere, if we want to call it that. Um, Tom Billu's radical wife. Anyways, here we go. Here's her here's your talking. The power of understanding narcissistic behavior, narcissistic patterns, how it shows up in relationships, all that. The power of that is for yourself. The mistake people can make is to try to convince other people of this. And then what ends up happening is you can get invalidated.
You can get caught up in unnecessary debates. Now you find yourself almost trying to prove to someone that your partner's narcissistic and they're like, "Well, I never had a problem with them."
And now you're back into that sort of icky, invalidated space, which really isn't good. You feel it in your body. It doesn't feel good. So I say, now that you know it, now that you get it, this is for you. This is a piece of information you >> Lisa, leave Tom. Leave Tom and start your painting career like we all want you to. Please. So, we believe in you, girly.
>> You use to forward your healing, the power.
>> Lisa really added to that a lot. I'm so glad that she was there to receive that information.
Okay, so that's kind of the vibe. you know, they she gives advice about, hey, if you're in a narcissistic thing, some sort of issue with narcissists, then another this guy's from the uh America's got or America's Next Top Model. Um, so I'm assuming there's always an undercurrent of like who the narcissists in these people's lives are and what they might be doing and might be thinking. So, I'm assuming they're going to be maybe like insinuating Tyra Banks, you know, is the narcissist in this situation. I don't know for sure. Let's see her.
>> Another terrible moment that was on the in the um in the docky series was when when Tyra was screaming at Tiffany. I think for me as a psychologist, the reason it was so affecting to me is the way they portrayed it on the show was that Tiffany was having some issues with emotional regulation. So, they required her to go to anger management. So, Tiffany goes to anger management. And actually, the way she showed up after her anger management work, she was actually very regulated. I think this is what I was seething at the television at that point. Tiffany was regulated, which is not easy to learn if you've had a difficult backstory. So, Tiffany not only learned to be regulated when Tiffany was regulated, she was attacked.
So that moment showed me, oh my gosh, these people have been put these especially the the models have been put into an impossible double bind. That nothing, no matter what you do, if if Tiffany acted out, she was going to get screamed at. Tiffany was regulated, she was going to get screamed at. And I think what was so distressing to me was that the revisionist narrative that Tyra was putting forth is I see myself in her. I love her. That's why I'm screaming at her. I'm screaming at you because you're my favor, but no, actually, they're your scapegoat.
>> So, I was there in the room for that full >> Okay, I kind of agree with her, you know, but I don't know how she with a medical degree and using her, you know, doctor title, she can really I mean, I I guess I'm assuming she did the caveat they all do in the beginning, like I don't know this personally. I never diagnosed them, but here's my two cents on pop culture.
But I don't know. Is that good? I just think it plays into this is entertainment at this point. It's like watching EN for the news. It's like, okay, you got to know that if you're listening to this person, most likely, even though they have a prestigious somewhat background, it's past the point of, oh, this is an expert's opinion.
It's like she's just given her two cents on a TV show at this point. Anyways, okay. Yeah. And I love this comment.
This man positioning himself as an innocent bystander is hilarious to me. I that is also my takeaway from the docky series or the yeah docue series on Netflix about the America's Next Top Model. Tyra was definitely horrible and we all sort of know that already and she's definitely got you know she's obsessed with herself and made a lot of bad choices but the people who are surrounding her were also not very good.
Um, and yes, it was a different time, but I think they really were trying to change their image, and I think it worked a little bit, but I think they should have maybe uh apologized more or keep apologizing because I'm not quite satisfied. Okay. Oh, here's he's on she's on Louiswis House. Okay. Another known grifter in my opinion. Another, you know, charlatan. has nothing really to offer other than brings people on his podcast to talk to spew multiple like there might be a psychic medium one day and a bodybuilder who drinks their urine the next and then a doctor the next and there's no you know disclaimers of hey this one's real and this one's [ __ ] I guess it's up to you. Um and then this says narcissists don't even love themselves.
Okay.
I don't know. It just seems like a very simplification version of of everything.
The soft boy narcissist trap. Okay, we'll watch one more and then we'll go to the Craig Seagull video. Also, why is she talking to Craig Seagull? I'm assuming he paid her to talk because all these people are for sale. If you don't know that, if you're in the uh conference space at all or the events space, there's millions of events probably a year across the world from conferences to like industry events and then there's groups and then there's a million things there. It's small, large, depends. But a lot of them bring in audiences with these keynote speakers, right? Like Mel Robbins charges $100,000 per hour, you know, to be a keynote. and she'll go to MLM conferences and speak to people and convince them to be, you know, have a downline is the most impressive thing they can do in their life. Or Rachel Hollis at one point was, you know, doing this. She's still trying to fight her way back up to do more prestigious, you know, uh, of these events.
But you can buy these people like they can buy their time. They all are represented typically by some agency and charge tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of dollars. I would assume, you know, she's doing that. So, I'm assuming Craig Seagull to try to make himself look more impressive and to boost his own position in this grifter space hired her to to speak at his conference. I'm assuming that again.
Anyways, the soft boy narcissist trap.
Can't wait to hear it. Soft point to me is almost like a kind of mask. It's the the man who shows up with all this feeling who may actually initially seem very emotionally vulnerable opening up about difficult experiences. It's often read as well this is a safe person who feels very gentle and soft until they're not. Unfortunately, it's not just a genuinely sweet, empathic man. This is somebody who's almost putting on these characteristics. The traits we then see are more of the vulnerable narcissistic trait. There can be a lot of silent treatment. can be a lot of passive aggression. They may lash out in angry ways. They may stalk. They may even threaten to do things like harm themselves. The >> okay big mistake people have made is they always tag narcissism to extreme arrogance and charm and swagger. It can be but it >> What's this music by the way? Can we just get the original audio please? also can be this more vulnerable presentation. And people who go through these soft boyesque relationships, these vulnerable narcissistic relationships, they have a much harder time navigating the relationship. I just find again like she may be right. I don't know. But at a certain point, every person in your life can fit into these categories. Oh, I knew a guy who was really nice at the beginning and then became controlling later. Oh, he must be a soft boy narcissist. Okay. And then there's also narcissists that are mean the whole time. And there's also narcissist. It's like, okay, well, I guess we need to inquire more. Um, because there seems to be an neverending field of content to talk about. So, I guess you need to keep going. Okay. So, also, I've already said I think Will Smith is a narcissist. Now, medically, so or not, I don't know. But he definitely has something going on where he is obsessed with himself to the point where he's got to be on camera 247. the people he surrounds himself with, the way that he talks, you know, about his marriage and whatever, I think he's deeply self-obsessed and deeply unhappy.
Um, even though he's in a very privileged um successful position where, you know, I think a lot of people would be satisfied with their career, it seems like he's very unhappy. Anyways, she she got a some sort of uh box from him. So, let's let's see what this is about. This is from Will Smith, and the the comment goes yikes. Okay, second comment. Talk about narcissism. This is a full-on display of a grandiose expression of self- adoration. Yikes. Very grandiose.
This is ironic given that Will Smith did, which could be characterized as entitlement, grandiosity, and rage. I've asked Dr. Ramony to assess his behavior at the Academy Awards. I doubt she'll say anything about it in public. This is not a criticism of Dr. Romney. I'm just saying. I mean, it should be. If you're comfortable talking about an entire like population of people constantly and say, "Yeah, this is how they are.
They're going to [ __ ] you over. They're going to do this. They're going to do that." And then you're hanging out with one of the people that would fit those categories and then you have nothing to say. Suspicious. Okay, here we go. And this is from 233 weeks ago. So, everyone do the math. Like several years ago, 2021 this was. When did he do the slapping? I think that was after to be fair. But let's see. Says, "Look what Will Smith sent me. What a wonderful surprise. If you haven't read his inspiring memoir, get it here. Will thebook.com? I'm sure you'll love it as much as I did." Okay, here we go. Just got this big box.
Never gotten such a big box.
>> Wonder what's inside.
>> Wonder what's inside. Let's see, folks.
Biggest box I've ever got.
with a W on it for will if you didn't know.
>> Oh my god.
>> Oh wow.
It's a move the key and insert in the hole.
Turn clockwise.
>> What in the hell?
Yeah. If anyone doubted what I just said about Will Smith being so selfobsessed it's ridiculous.
Exhibit >> A.
>> Where is >> It's up.
>> Continue turning the Oh, what's about to happen?
>> What? What the >> There's something. Oh my goodness. This is kind of scary. Okay. Clockwise >> explodes. He's sending it to all the people that are going to call him out.
>> Oh.
Oh, >> this is so weird.
>> The last panel don't want to close.
Maybe without >> this is for a book about himself, a book that he wrote about his life.
>> Whoa.
>> So, thank you, Will. And we're talking about fear.
How we decide to respond to our fears.
That is the person we become.
says, "Hope sustains life.
Love to love and be loved is the highest human reward in ecstasy. Allowing the best."
>> This is the people that do will do a grand display like this to show how wise they are and how smart they are. And they wrote a whole book about their, you know, life advice and then punch somebody in public for no reason at all.
Someone that they were friends with at one point for absolutely no good reason.
So that's who you're taking your advice from and getting PR packages from.
>> Within you to serve and unleash the best within others is the most intense of human pleasure.
>> Come here, girly.
>> And then my favorite always is going to be purpose.
Desire is what you want. Purpose is the flowering of what you are. Purpose is a way of contextualizing life's unavoidable sufferings and making them meaningful and worthwhile. Will. And in here >> says, "Me personally, I'd have a huge set of red roses with tickets to a lavish resort of her choice. Not my own book when she's featured in it."
Yeah, I guess this is like a gift to her. Like, here's a gift for helping me be a part of this. I don't know if she was a part of it, but I guess she was featured. Here's your reward. My face on a book and It is the phenomenal book by his memoir.
>> Yeah. Again, everyone in the comments, I'm kind of happy. This is a sort of narcissistic display that makes one cringe. Why are you playing along with it? He is lovebombing you. You always deserve the best. God bless your soul.
Such an innovative gift. Okay, those people are delusional. A lot of horror movies could have started like this.
Okay, I love two. I love these two, but what's the grandiosity for? If we preach about going within, etc. The show is just for the entertainment of the ego, which is another distraction of doing the real inner work. Yeah. Okay. So, I'm kind of glad people are kind of catching on or did in 2021 to, hey, you talk about this type of person a lot that you should stay away from them and you should fear them and you should ridicule them for doing these things to you.
Okay, I don't disagree. But then, huh, Will Smith is fine. Okay.
Anyways, all right. So, let's go to Craig.
Um, Craig.
Seagulls.
Se How do you spell the name? Seagull.
This is gold straight up.
>> This is gold straight up.
>> Okay. Um, the real reason you're drained, anxious, and can't stop thinking about them. This is from nine days ago. Okay, skip ahead. So, she's got no qualms about joining a guy who's, you know, pays for guests. Okay, here we go. And he's got a he's rocking a new hairo.
It's really cool.
>> This is gold. Straight up. Big facts. He got a new haircut.
>> Big facts.
>> Okay, here's Craig Seagull. Take it away.
>> Boundary. If someone has these tendencies, but they're really important to us. I want to bring up >> a friend. Someone you know what I guess you could say entered this world.
>> Um, how do I say this? There's a lot of people.
>> Oh, hold on.
>> Let's say entered this world.
Craig, my boy, my dog.
What the hell is this? If you know this is what you look like from the side, why do you have two cameras?
Let's stick with camera A. Let's skip camera B. I know I'm being mean. I know I'm being narcissistic. Dr. Romney is going to do a whole 10 piece series on me, but what's going on?
I've never seen a haircut like this. It looks like a pipe or a penis. I'm sorry to say. I'm sorry.
I couldn't I couldn't help myself. This situation is a red flag.
>> Deep belly laughs.
>> It It is an interesting way to go. I don't remember what his hair looked like before, but I do not remember it looking like this.
I've been in so many of these generic like office building seminars. I hate to admit it, but I have been. Kim Jong-un.
Yes, it is giving Kim Jong-un. Kim Jong Craig.
>> This is gold straight up.
>> He's like North Korea.
>> There's literally no place in the world than I would rather be than right here with you.
>> H. Okay, back to it.
Um, how do I say this? There's a lot of people that seem one way >> much better from the front.
>> Social media sometimes you meet them.
It's not always the same. U, but Dr. Man's always been amazing. Such a special soul. And um, it's not really an opinion. She's the number one narcissist expert on the planet. And, um, the way that she unpacks this stuff and teaches it. And >> what event is this? I also want to know.
I'm assuming this is some sort of entrepreneur boot camp event that people had to pay for to attend to uplevel their life, up level their business. What does dec like calling out narcissists have to do with that? Exactly. Go to therapy for that like in your own life, in your own situation. Hearing blanketed advice about mental health that may or may not be true to you is just I find it to be so odd. But okay, >> shares about it, makes it applicable, and really gives us insight is actually second to none. It's amazing. And uh we're going to go really deep right now.
And I do want to encourage you guys when we do open it up for questions >> to not hold back. Take the gloves off with a metaphoric jacket. Without further ado, guys, please welcome to the stage the >> Take your gloves off.
Really give it to her.
>> Iconic.
>> Sorry. I'm so sorry. dynamic, brilliant Dr. Romani.
>> Heidi Pal's pissed she wasn't invited to come to this to speak. She's like, "Where is my invite?"
>> How you doing?
>> I'm great. And I've already met so many wonderful people just like in the line at the bathroom and just standing out there. So, if that's any sign of what's going to happen here, I think we're in great shape.
>> Any weird people from New York City?
I mean, that's why New York City is so fantastic because it's all weird people.
So, yeah.
>> And I I I used to live here. I In fact, when my when I was born, my parents live right across the river.
>> She was born in New Jersey and then moved to LA um seemingly to become famous and it worked.
>> So, you could see where kind of come over a river and here I am. Yeah.
>> Perfect. Well, New York City looks good on you.
>> Well, thank you so much. That's very wonder of you. Thank you.
>> You guys ready to go in? Craig, what does that mean? What does that mean?
Please explain.
>> Okay.
>> Ready to get weird? What happened to that one? I don't have that one anyway.
Are you ready to get weird?
>> Oh, this is really good for me.
>> Okay, that was Ed.
>> The word narcissism, narcissists can throw on a lot. Some people right away they're triggered. The word is triggering. Some people like, "Oh, I don't I don't know if that applies to me. I don't know if I've ever dealt with that or >> what is narcissism?" So narcissist, >> what is it? Again, Craig Seagull's probably a candidate to be prime candidate number one. Now, he's not the biggest narcissist in the world, but I think in order to do this job well and to put your face on stuff and to talk and to say, I have the secrets to life, you have to be a little narcissistic.
Okay, but let's hear her example.
>> A personality style. Let's not call it a disorder because that's just muddying the waters. So, it's a personality style and it's characterized by sort of a series of traits and patterns a person might have. It's low inconsistent empathy. It is wrong to say a narcissistic person doesn't have empathy. I'm going to come back to that point in a moment because it's what confuses confuses everything. Arrogance, entitlement, an excessive need for validation and admiration. Like all of us like to be told we're doing a good job, but this is constant. The whole relationship is you always having to pump them up. Nothing's coming back at you. But it's excessive need for that.
It's a superficial status seeking kind of a style, pathological selfishness, difficulty controlling their emotions.
Usually it's disregulated like yelling at other people and screaming at other people or >> or you're a soft boy.
>> Oh, I got to read your comment. Hold on.
Stand by.
I'm getting emotive aggressive and going silenced on people and so that that dysregulation ends up >> Oh, welcome to SK and Sunshine ET90.
Thank you. Welcome. Welcome.
>> This is gold. Shade up.
>> Controlling the relationship. And underneath all those traits, sort of the flip side of this is deep insecurity, very fragile ego, and a lot of shame.
And it shows up in patterns like manipulation and gaslighting and betrayal and shifting blame on the other person in the relationship and domination and power. And >> I also think, again, I'm going to say what I've already said. This is such a heavy, dark, sad, serious topic. the the function in which this is taking place is so bizarre.
This is like a you know a hotel ballroom seminar room. Why would this be a topic again? Like anyone who's going to ask questions is going to see me like my father was an [ __ ] and he you know drank a lot and he put me down. Do you think he was a narcissist? Like again is this an appropriate setting for an entrepreneur group? I don't know. Anyways, >> control. So, these are not healthy relationships. But we have a real problem here. All of those traits, even though they don't sound very pleasant, are associated with success in our culture. So, these are often the people who are making all the money, running all the businesses. Even people feel >> I think she does very well for herself, just by the way. I'm assuming she makes a lot of money. She's probably a multi-millionaire. So, is she describing herself?
>> Might be an attractive spouse or partner or something like that. So the very thing we value many times, not all the time, not by a long shot, but many times can be associated with all this other stuff that you may not see until you're in it for a minute. And if you were raised by someone like this, it has forever shaped you to have this sense of I'm not enough. I have to earn love. I'm not safe in relationships. How dare I succeed?
>> Wow. Where do we begin?
>> Yeah.
>> Okay. Couple things that I heard there.
I'm glad you cleared this up. I'm actually processing this myself. So, >> Craig, the greatest listener of all time.
Wait, what did I ask?
>> Narcissist had empathy. Hillary.
>> Okay. They have variable empathy.
>> Okay. If you catch a narcissistic person, >> it's like, I don't have that, so I must not be >> on a good day where their needs are met, they're getting supply, maybe they got their promotion that day, maybe they flirted with someone at the gym, maybe they got a lot of money, maybe they got a new car. If you that if you catch them on that day, you actually are with someone who actually seems empathic. And we read some things wrong as empathy.
Craig, for example, generosity is a great example. We assume generous people are empathic. No, they're generous. It doesn't take that much effort to throw down a credit card. Okay? So, just because somebody picks up the bill doesn't mean they have empathy. It means they just paid for dinner. Don't confuse the two.
>> Was that a mic drop moment?
I don't I'm never thinking if someone buys dinner. I'm an empath and I can tell that person's empathetic. I didn't know that was up for debate, but okay.
This is awesome.
>> Okay, let's go.
>> Why?
Hold on.
>> This is awesome.
>> Okay, let's go deeper.
>> Okay.
>> Okay. Wow.
Does >> Craig, you got to think of a question before she she's done.
>> The narcissists know that they're a narcissist >> sometimes. I mean again Craig when I got into this game nobody talked about it right now we're talking you can't you can't go on social media without seeing this content can turn on a video it's the subject of so many TV shows and docs and all that some do >> kind of caused by you and led by you because you're on everyone's gosh darn shows >> do some do most don't one of the key features for me as a psychologist one of the key features of narcissism is that the person doesn't have a lot of insight So, they'll actually walk around the world, a person with this personality will walk around the world saying, "I'm a great guy." What? Why does everyone have a problem with me? Like, I'm just a great guy. I'm a great generous guy. I listen to your problems. I'm a sweetheart. Like, now you think that >> Great point. Turnbuckle 10. Anytime anyone does anything nice or me narcissist? Well, yeah. You got to have content for the next 20 years. So, it has to be all things at all times.
>> UFOs in your backyard, you're like, "What?" like they it's completely it's again almost delusional. So there's a lack of the biggest issue with narcissism is there's almost no awareness of how their behavior affects other people.
>> They're very grounded in I'm great. So if you have a problem that's a you thing, not a me thing.
>> But also the let them theory which she's been on Mel Robbins podcast. She would I would assume the let them theory is so good. I support that. Isn't that that whole concept like not giving a [ __ ] what people are doing? No, that's not empathetic. You're actually a narcissist. I'm confused. There's too much to know.
>> Anyone relating to this at all?
>> Okay. Seems like everybody. Wow.
>> Wow. Craig is got to think. Come on, Craig. Think. Think.
>> Priceless juicy nuggets.
>> You got a good one in there. I know it.
You got a question in there. Think about it. Take a second. Process.
>> Okay. So it's funny because you mentioned success earlier and I know that there are traits that are associated with success. So how do we distinguish that? Like it almost seems like because to be successful is cool that culture almost rewards narcissists 100%. That's why we're in the mess we're in right now.
>> I mean we absolutely reward it.
>> He's like what mess? It's perfect.
Everything's perfect right now.
>> Narcissistic people make higher salaries. Narcissistic people are over represented in leadership. Narcissistic people have more success in dating, particularly online dating. Narcissistic people in the first six months of a leadership gig are viewed as more effective leaders. They got the pizzazz.
They've got the zazoo, right? The zazoo doesn't last, >> but it it draws people in. And >> what's that word?
>> Zazoo.
I just age myself. I think people now people think I'm a thousand years old. I think that's from the 1920s. cuz I'm not that old. But he's going to take that as his own. Did you say zazoo?
>> No big deal.
>> Zazoo. No big deal. Zootsu riot. Uh, half meta la chemist. Thank you so much.
Half Sorry, let me read this correctly.
Half metal la chemist. Is that correct?
Is that accurate? This is what I have to say to you.
>> It is $18 American dollar.
>> I think Dr. Romney did something with Dave Hollis, too. Am I lying? Did I make that up? Did I dream that?
I feel like they did something way back in the day. Speaking of Oh, yeah. Let's see. Dr. Romney is a renowned clinical psychologist and leading expert on narcissism. She and lifestyle author Dave Hollis are connected through a highly discussed episode on the Rachel Hollis podcast.
In 2024, Rachel Hollis invited Dr. Romney onto her show. Oh, so was So maybe not Dave Hollis.
H wow. Rachel Hollis interviewed her, too. So yeah, she has no boundaries at all for what type of podcast she'll go on.
>> Narcissistic bully cult leader.
>> Oh, okay. Cult. This is not a cult.
>> That's what she has to say every day.
Thank you. Half metal chemist.
And I'll give you a light language. I see it on their screen. I'll give you a light language just as a bonus.
>> Okay, back to it. It's, you know, it's that it's that sizzle. It's that wow factor. And we're in a world where things are so appearanceoriented, right?
We're looking at images all the time.
Narcissistic people are also rated as more attractive. They're more likely to go to the gym and be all that. Not to be healthy, but so people admire them.
>> Again, so should I not go to the gym?
Should I not pay for dinner? Like, these are very vague traits.
>> Let me think. What is the one thing that most people tend to get wrong about narcissism or narcissist?
>> That it's it's >> half metal alchemist. So, sorry. Thank you.
I'm like, "Wow, a chemist is here. I'm honored."
>> Just vanity. It's just They Some people even think it's self-love, right? This is They think of the old myth where the boy looks in the his refle narcissist looks at his reflection in the water and falls in love with his reflection. They miss the rest of the story, which is he ended up killing himself, but that's for another day. It's a It's supposed to be a distressing state, but we think >> Yeah, I think that's a well-known an anecdote.
I always want to say antidote, which is, you know, snake bite venom. Um, I thought that was well known. No, narcissist. Narcissus, right? The Greek person, Greek god looked in the reflection of the water and fell in love with his image and then he drowned because he was so in love with himself.
And that was supposed to be a lesson of, you know, keep it together people. I think everyone knows that. But okay, >> that it's just selfishness. So when people use the word sometimes you're like, what's your problem? Like so what if they're just selfish?
>> And the other thing is like, well, if they're that, then they can change. Not so much.
>> So if you're in this, this is probably not going to budge. Make your decisions accordingly. You ain't changing them.
>> Wow.
>> Wow. That was pretty affirmative. Okay.
>> Okay.
>> I would guess 90% of this audience are narcissists themselves, including the two people up there. Okay. I'm jumping to conclusions, but based on what they've said, everyone is one.
>> And it's funny because I'm asking the questions, but I'm also learning on the spot. I'm afraid to make that is amazing.
>> So, how does someone know if they're currently involved with a narcissist?
Either a romantic relationship of maybe a boss, an employee, a colleague. How do you know if you're dealing with a narcissist?
>> You know what's funny, Craig? I think what happens first.
>> Craig, let me tell you.
>> Is you start feeling sick and you don't know why? There's a little bit of dread.
You know, you're like, "God, to see them or I hear the car coming in the driveway." And then you feel like a terrible person because remember, it's not always bad days. This is what's unique about these relationships. Not every day is bad. All of a sudden a one day you you it's hit your partner or spouse. You go away to Hawaii for the weekend. You have great sex. You have a fabulous time. You're like, "Ah, I misread this relationship." And then Wednesday comes, you're like, "No, I didn't." You know, but now I feel guilty cuz we did have a nice weekend. So it's that disconnect. You might say, "Oh my god, my mother is such a b- word narcissist." And then she shows up and says, "Oh, sweetie, you're sick. I brought you soup. I got the kids. Don't worry about a thing." You're like, "I'm the worst daughter." And then she starts commenting on your weight by Friday when your fever comes down, right? You didn't lose that much weight, did you? No one's ever going to want you again. So, it's that kind of that you get the you get the good, you get the bad, you get the good, you get the bad. That process is called trauma bonding. Okay? And what happens in a trauma bonded relationship, >> is it again, I'm learning, I guess. I'm learning as we go. This is all revealing information. I'm so glad Craig was here to facilitate this. Um, that's what trauma bonding is. I thought it was when two people are going through a bad situation and you're becoming codependent on each other because of the bad situation. Not that sometimes it's good, sometimes it's bad, but okay. Is a person's like, I feel guilty about wanting to leave. I feel terrified that this is going to end. There's nothing but confusion, but I think you feel sick before you know what you're what you're in. And the reason I do what I do is so people have a place to get educated about this and don't think they're crazy. I think until the last 15 years, everyone in these relationships walked around either thinking they were the problem or that they were out of their minds. Once we gave it a name, people were like, "Oh, this is a thing." And then they lifted their head and they realized it was millions of people.
>> That changed the game.
>> Yeah, this is amazing. I think >> like what are we supposed to do? I'm hoping she gets to that. like okay so now we've decided that there's millions of people who have this thing they don't want to change they're unaware of it half the time so what do we do >> the way that you are >> never talked to anyone that goes to the gym >> this stuff it's beautiful based on what you was describing as like trauma bonding and stuff like that how many of you just Wow so you remember >> I thought too >> a narcissist in your life >> or now maybe it's making a little bit more sense >> wow okay so you mentioned sometimes it could be your Um, >> yeah.
>> How do we set a boundary if someone has these tendencies but they're really important to us.
>> So, let's talk a little bit about boundaries cuz that word pisses me off.
>> Okay.
>> You're the So, let's say you're the one who's being abused in the relationship.
Now, you're the one being abused. You're tolerating attacks. You're being blamed for everyone. And now it's your damn problem to set a boundary. And it's not going to work.
>> Right.
>> But we're >> Wait, what?
Yeah, it's one of those things in life that's unnecessary or unfortunate but necessary.
Yeah, you do have to set a boundary if you're the one being hurt. Is this this is all new information to me. I've been in therapy six years. Wow, I just needed to listen to her because it's all different advice that I've gotten. Okay, keep going.
>> Continuing to blame Craig. Oh, Craig, you didn't set a boundary. How about you don't abuse me?
>> Okay, so let's think of the paradigm that way. In a perfect world, yes, of course. But you've already said they're unaware and they they don't look within.
Okay. Sorry if you're pausing it.
>> I always say boundaries are an inside job.
Let's stop making it about like, well, you're you're always late, so if you're late again to dinner, that's not going to work for me. He's just going to keep being late just to mess with me if he's narcissistic. I'm not saying you are, sweetie. But you know what I'm saying is that you know what we keep saying like well if you if you want to come to my dinner party you'll show up on time.
They're not going to show up on time though or they're going to turn around and say why are you so selfish? Why are you so difficult? What's your problem?
You're so rigid. So now when you try to set said boundary, the biggest biggest biggest danger in setting a boundary, you know, >> but the boundary would be don't invite them anymore and say I'm not going to meet up with you ever again if you keep coming late. Isn't that what a boundary is? Or I will only come and see you or have dinner with you if you arrive on time. If you do it one more time, I'm not going to go to dinner with you anymore. That is a boundary as well.
Maybe I misunderstood something. Uh, some guy 001. Thank you so much. Some guy, some guy says, "This woman needs therapy and different eye makeup.
Yeah, she's not a narcissist because she doesn't care about her makeup." I think is maybe the visual cue maybe she's trying to give. It looks fine. I don't know. It looks fine.
That's all I have to say on that. And also I would I'm a medium. I channel all day.
I would imagine she is in therapy but maybe not.
>> Ghost. How does that even work?
>> But I am curious as she talks about that. Thank you some guy.
>> What you've done? You played poker.
>> Sure.
>> Okay. You just shown them your hand.
>> You've told showed them what matters to you. You can I curse?
>> Yes.
>> You showed them how to [ __ ] with you.
Okay.
>> By telling them that something makes you uncomfortable or doesn't you don't like something.
I'm not following this logic. Okay. Let me just go back for a second. I paused too many times. Sorry.
>> You just shown them your hand.
>> You've told showed them what matters to you. You can I curse?
>> Yes.
>> You've showed them how to [ __ ] with you.
>> Okay. If if they know being late is my issue, they're gonna [ __ ] with me.
>> They're gonna keep coming late. Why would I have that tough? I say to the narcissistic partner, you know, I was cheated on in the past, so this is really makes me unsecure. Guess who's going to be flirting with everyone on social media and the server and a so weird my ex keeps calling me out. She still wants to get back together.
They're going to go for your wound cuz our boundaries are set around our wounds. So don't give them that tell.
Don't show it. If you're going to set a boundary, the way to think about it is there's something going on here that doesn't feel healthy. I need to keep eyes on it.
So, I'm going to give you an example.
All right. Let's say you're somebody you're in a relationship and somebody keeps making inappropriate comments. I don't know about your job. Why aren't you promoted? You don't make enough.
Only losers work there. Da da da da da da. The existing bad advice out there is like, set a boundary. Say, I don't want you to talk to me that way. Don't bring up my job. No, now they know. Oh, I really want to mess with her. I'm going to keep talking about her job. I'm going to share with you something that a patient of mine came up with, right?
>> I just vehemently disagree. And I guess the difference is, and this is what it comes down to with all blanket advice, it's like maybe in some cases, yes. If it's your mother-in-law, if it's your mother or father, someone you can't get away from and you want them in your life and you've decided, I want this person in my life. now I have to navigate their narcissism to maintain a relationship.
That's one thing. But if you're married, if you if it's a friend or a co-orker or some where you can get out of the situation, keeping your thoughts to yourself and not setting a boundary to me does not make sense, right?
>> We call it narcissism bingo. Okay? And this is what we do when you know, for example, you're going to the family dinner, maybe even the something at work, something with your partner, and you know all the things that they're going to do that might hurt you. Okay?
You know them. Comments about your weight, comments about your work, um interrupting, whatever that whatever's on the list, manipulating, gaslighting, I never said that. That never happened.
You're so dramatic. Baboom boom boom boom. Put it on your phone. Don't make a bingo card. That's probably a bit dramatic, but you have it on your phone.
Okay? And then you know what with this in this lady's case she >> and it's like here's my patient story. I always love that when people have actual patients they're like I'm gonna tell your story on stage.
No thank you please. My therapist said we we built we built a card in in our therapy session. It was for Thanksgiving in her case. Terrible mother-in-law. Da da. She makes the list. Her and her husband took two separate cars to Thanksgiving that year because the deal she made with herself is once this lady hits five, I'm out of there. And the thing is that whether she left at the end of the evening before anything, this woman's going to get mad. So five things happen before >> that's a boundary leaving the party that's setting a boundary within yourself to leave. If someone says five mean things about you, that is a boundary to me >> or dessert.
And she says, you know, I got it. She doesn't say bingo. She says, "I" she says, "You know, I got to get I got I actually have to work tomorrow. I got to get back." Her mother-in-law tore her a new one. Screamed, "Yell, you're so unselfish. How could you leave my son to drive back by himself, but she was steadfast. She knew at five it was getting really uncomfortable for her."
Right? And she said, "And that and she said, "I felt such a sense of self-respect." And the funny thing was is this woman kept doing number one, number two. She's like, "By number three, I had to hold my back self back from smiling." She's like, "I'm going to be out of here in 30 minutes." You know, and so then number five happens and and she very calmly said, "Oh gosh, got to get back." And she left. And she said, "It was such a freeing feeling. That boundary was an inside job. You got to know what you're looking at, but don't set boundaries with people with these personalities. You're literally giving away your hand."
>> Wow. Give it up, guys. Give it up.
>> Give it up. Give it up, girl. Um, okay.
Okay. So, I guess I did understand that is a boundary. You just have to set a boundary with yourself and don't tell people when they're mistreating you, which I don't really agree with wholeheartedly, but okay.
>> That's amazing.
>> But, you know, Craig, think of it this way. If you were negotiating a deal, >> would you give everything away while you're negotiating the deal?
>> Yes.
>> No. The key to negotiation is to shut up, >> right? Make them show you everything.
You shut the hell up. You don't lay anything. So we know this in business.
Obviously families relationships are different but unfortunately narcissistic relationships are so transactional. Take you actually that you know what the best narcissism book would be? I'd like to think mine but I'm not that narcissistic. Read a >> you're not convincing me of this woman doctor. Sorry.
>> Read a business book. Read a business book about how to negotiate with a jerk.
you probably have everything you need to get through your relationship.
>> To get through your relationship, again, because it's so non-specific, it's hard to really glean a whole lot of meaning from it. Because again, if you're dating somebody that has this, why are you in a relationship with them? That's a deeper question that a therapist should be asking you and you should be contemplating. If it's your mother, okay, that's one thing. And there are ways to, you know, navigate that, too.
So, okay, but read her book, but then secondly, read a business book about how to negotiate. And I do think people who think of relationships, cuz if you're saying narcissists think of relationships as transactional, now you're stooping to their level by also negotiating transactionally.
I don't find this to be helpful unless you are a narcissist too or have traits that you are two of them against each other. I don't know. Okay, let's continue.
>> Are narcissists bad people?
>> I don't like the term bad people. I think here's a complicating issue with narcissism.
It's a complex origin story for people who have these personalities. Adversity, trauma, neglect, um detached caregivers.
There are a lot of thing sometimes even overvaluation. It's the little kid who's told you're perfect. You can do nothing wrong. You're my son and so that means you're perfect. No one's going to ever give you [ __ ] because you're my son.
Suck daughter. Okay, but you see what I'm saying? When you're told you're special all the time, it is an absolute terrible number to do on a kid because by the time they're 19, 20 years old, they're going to feel like the biggest imposttor in the world cuz they're going to go in the world they ain't so special and they don't have the reserves >> relatable to me >> to manage that anymore. And but they were told they were special. That can even be a fasttrack to narcissism. I don't like it as a bad person, good person dichotomy. I think narcissism's complicated. Okay, >> I have narcissistic friends. I am sure you have narcissistic friends. Okay.
>> And we are also both narcissists in our own way. Craig, gold straight up. Craig, look at your outfit.
>> No big deal.
>> I have narcissistic people in my family.
I have narcissistic people in my past and I have narcissistic people in my present. And some of them I really love, but my god are they on a need to- know basis. Does that make sense? I can still show up as a compassionate person, but I also know they can only get in so deep.
They can't know things about me. I can't count on them. I expect very little from them. Nice to have a few around for a party, you know, but I don't think that they're bad people. Now, here's the trick to know understanding narcissism.
It's >> I feel like narcissism has lost the meaning. this is this is just people who aren't compatible, people who are selfobsessed. Like I don't know what narcissist means to her. And she said it's not the diagnosis.
But is narcissist, you know, someone who like really likes themselves or is there a differentiating factor? I don't know.
It's too vague. Again, >> continue. At the mild end of narcissism, you're talking about the douche on Instagram that keeps posting their breakfast and thinks we're supposed to be interested. Okay? You know, they're like, "Look at me. I'm so great. I'm getting on a private jet." They're not really that there was one at the local airport and they're going up the steps and it's a lot of this. Okay? So, Craig, literally Craig, he's like pretending to be on a private jet all the time and he's doing videos of him getting out of a Uber at black and recording content about how he's a genius.
Yeah, I'm not feeling very good about this.
>> There's that. And they're kind of very superficial. And you you might go this is the friend you might go to with a problem. You always take their calls, but the day you call them, they're like, "Dude, I'm going to the gym. Like, I don't have time for this right now. It's a selfishness, an immaturity." That's very different. I spoke with a member of your audience who was asking about dynamics like coercive control. This is different. this at the far end of the spectrum. We're talking about exploitation. We're talking about coercion. We're talking about severe emotional abuse. In some cases, physical abuse.
I might be more apt to use the bad person there, but I don't think somebody posting their breakfast and who's too busy to talk to you about your problems is a bad person. I think they're stunted. I think that they may not be a health their healthiest friend.
>> Also, maybe you're annoying.
Maybe if I'm calling somebody, and again, you have to have self-awareness about yourself. If I'm calling someone every day to talk about my day and they're just not into it, does that automatically make them a narcissist? Or am I being impolite by taking up their time? Or maybe he's trying to post his breakfast because he's depressed and it helps a little bit. I don't know.
There's many ways to read this. I don't like the automatic like, oh, they think that we should give a [ __ ] It's like, you have two million followers on Instagram. You think we're supposed to give a [ __ ] apparently. So, because this is your whole career.
So, it's fine if you do all these things and it's fine if people in your life do all these things, but you are able to, you know, cast out all this judgment from Craig Seagull's stage. It's weird.
>> You're you're a bad person. Then once we go far enough on that severity spectrum, we start tipping into psychopathy. And that's a whole another machine. That's a whole another beast. So a good person >> which is the perfect topic to talk about at this entrepreneur event mastermind >> can >> psychopathy right >> acquire narcissistic tendencies >> no >> no personality gets baked in as from pretty much from birth to adulthood right so I want you to think of it as a jello mold right if you take the jello mold out of the moldy thing too soon it splats it's just liquid on your plate the human brain and personality personal ality a lot of it happens in the in the frontal cortex of the brain the last kind of inhibition and other elements it's all up here prefrontal this is the last part to cook especially in boys and men okay so the last that's why we see >> I agree Wayne says this is exactly where she loses all credibility she's praying on people who feel like victims of everybody yeah what are the chances that everyone in this room is the victim of narcissism but they themselves are not statistically at least a few of them have to be narcissists based on her evaluation of what it actually is. But I'm sure if she was to go up to everybody, it would be like, "Oh, I'm so sorry for your, you know, victimization."
Like, because I think when you're She doesn't think of herself as narcissist.
She's saying Craig's not a narcissist.
Why? Because they're there. Because also, this explanation doesn't even make sense. It's just so vague. And it's like, well, some days I'm nicer than others. I don't know. It's just nonsensical. What's even the point of having the conversation then? more impulsivity, disinhibition, especially in young men. Somewhere between 20 Oh, yeah. Soapy Lulu. I think they are. I got a couple earlier. I don't know how to Yeah, I think they are working. I'm not sure. Maybe it's a credit card thing or something. I'm sorry, but write a comment. I'll read it for you if you want if it's not working.
>> Five and 30. This is cooked. We think of adolescence as ending at 18. Not even close. 25. That's why 24 year olds still behave like 16 year olds because their brain is still kind of there.
>> Speak for yourself. And that's why when parents come to me, my 22-year-old, I'm like, "Slow down. Your 22-year-old is actually a 16-year-old." And when you think of that way, it helps. All 16-year-olds look a little narcissistic.
Adolescence are supposed to be narcissistic. It's what their personality is still doing as they separate from their parents. So, by the time someone hits 30 and we, it's an interesting philosophical question here, Craig. What is a good person? Right?
This this I mean, now we're now we're opening up an entirely different Pandora. It's what I am and people who pay me money are >> box that has spiritual and philosophical overtones. I know what I think a good person is, but that may not be a shared definition in this room. I look at traits like compassion, kindness, patience, um, ethics, empathy, >> like Will Smith, >> my good friend.
>> That those are the things I look at when I think of a good person, right? I don't care if they have a dollar in the bank or a billion dollars in the bank. You he show me those things consistently.
It's a good person to me. Again, you you may not agree. All right, that stuff it's pro-social. So, some people say, "I don't is that a good person? It's so easy to just sort of run over them and steamroll them. They're a sucker." Okay, man. The sucker is so a good person, you know? So, we don't acquire these traits later on. The only example I can give you, and I don't think this is narcissism, I am, again, I'm a lot older than you, okay? So, if somebody dropped $100 million on my lap tomorrow, it wouldn't change who I am, except you'd never hear from me again. Okay, that's it. I'm out.
>> I highly doubt that. She is on more shows and on more podcasts than anyone else, I I think in the game, in the game, as she calls it. Uh, so I don't believe that. I think she would start her own podcast if she hasn't already and just talk incessantly more probably.
>> Bye. Where's Dr. Romney? Nobody knows.
She's scrubbed. Okay. Me, my cat, my kids will it'll be like witness protection except like my kids, couple other people, right?
>> I don't buy it.
>> But for many people, especially in their 30s, >> they very suddenly acquire a lot of power through money or a title or something like that. You can see the taking on of traits that could read as narcissism. You know what I'm saying? We call that more privilege and entitlement. I live in LA, okay? So, I have actually an interesting client base that has included people who are big business leaders and you know, people who are big famous people and all of that.
>> It's fascinating when the gloves come off and the shell comes off. So ordinary. It's actually kind of sad, right? They just drive a car that's worth everything I'll ever see in my life. That's all. They're just have stuff. Some of them are what I'm saying.
>> I'm not buying that. She's not loaded.
I'm sorry. She's making I don't have any money. Yeah, right. Give me a break.
>> Are good people and some of them not so nice. They're very narcissistic, but that stuff was there before they ever became famous. Does that make sense? So, I think privilege can make it so a person's a bit abrupt. They kind of rush out of a room. they, you know, they expect a certain level of treatment, but if someone took them aside and said, "Nah, not cool." They might say, "I apologize. I shouldn't have done that."
And and they'll and they'll quickly click back into that. So, we have to be careful. We don't con confuse privilege and entitlement fully with narcissism.
They're not nice traits, but they don't make someone a narcissist. After 30, you're not acquiring these qualities unless you've had a head injury. Like, somebody gets bonked on the head. They could acquire traits that look like narcissism. Like a central nervous system injury, a a tumor, like some other sort of disease process in the brain can cause that change in personality. Some dementias can do that, too. So, those are much more rarified situations.
>> I love the way they distinguish articul.
>> I guess their mics cut out for a minute.
I hope it comes back. They're probably doing some tech work on the microphone setup.
>> This and it's interesting because we're talking about business lot. There are some spiritual giants in this room here today. And um I know one of the things that we talk about as we ascend and have ambition and want to build big business and change the world is keeping our ego in check.
>> Yeah. People who want to change the world are definitely not narcissists for sure. Who want to change the world through their MLM downline through their online career coaching business. Okay, I shouldn't say career coaching. on their online life coaching business. They're going to change the world by posting gym selfies and saying, "If you're looking for a sign, here's a sign to go to the gym. This is going to change lives and I deserved extra praise and your 18 stinking dollars."
You know, I guess >> I'd love to hear what how ego is connected to narcissism. And also when we're building something huge and we're really doing some pretty important great stuff in the world, how do we make sure that we don't tap into any of those narcissistic traits and we keep ourselves in check and can you build something so big and powerful without dipping your toe with the water narcissistic traits?
>> So let's start with ego. There's a lot and I got it's like a multi-art essay question. I'm out of >> You got me so excited. Give it up for Dr. Lmani.
You have a guy narcissism.
Tell me about people who abuse.
>> Sorry.
Right. Isn't it a weird topic? Like this is Is this supposed to be inspirational or what? Like we've really lost the plot on what is appropriate for group meetings.
>> Ego, right? Ego isn't bad. Okay. So, we got to stop giving ego a bad brand.
>> Ego is a I want you to if we didn't have skeletons, we would be a pile of liquid and schmutz on the floor. We really would be, right? The skeleton, >> our endoskeleton as it were is what keeps all this standing around and walking around. We need it, right?
That's an endoskeleton. Ego to me when it's healthy is a psychological endoskeleton. And healthy ego means we know who we are. We know our kid.
>> I'm someone who likes to post my breakfast every morning. Apparently that makes me a narcissist. Apparently, he's watching the Powerball.
Narcissist. Sorry.
>> Capabilities. We know our weaknesses. We know our vulnerabilities. And >> she's saying we because she is a perfect person.
>> We recognize that there are people outside of us who are being affected by us. That's healthy ego all day, all night. Love it. Okay, narcissism is unhealthy ego. It's not too much ego.
It's unhealthy ego. It's ego at the cost of others. It's ego that is an exoskeleton stuff and status and power and domination. Healthy ego is none of those things, right? So even sort of Buddhist and Hindu writings that talk about sort of the the the leaving of the ego, I think that gets more >> I think anyone who calls themsself a spiritual guru or leader is probably a narcissist that you think you have some sort of special conduit to uh things above God or a God level and you are speaking to the universe or getting signs directly from God and you're going to charge money or or lead some sort of congregation. Now, does that make you incapable of doing that? No. But I think it does require narcissistic traits. So, again, these the room is filled with spiritual leaders. Okay, then they're all narcissists, too.
>> And I don't want to get too deep into the sort of Eastern religion, you know, weeds. But, you know, we talk about things like mosha and our physical body, right? And that there's a spiritual center to us, and the rest of this is just sort of window dressing, right?
That's not what I'm talking about. Okay?
I think that that's vocabulary at that point about so I think healthy ego can be this authentic healthy self that knows itself. All right, I told you a story upstairs.
Okay, I want to tell and I want all of you to listen to this because it comes to your point of building a healthy business. Think the danger of talking about this only in terms of narcissism and ego is we miss the flip side. Some of you in this room had narcissistic parents. Some of you had parents who loved you only conditionally who might >> and also say some of you are narcissists.
Please >> even harmed you. So you learned that you were only lovable if you put up and shut up. If you gave in as a >> learned a word. Okay, I need to get a drink. I'm so thirsty. I'm like it's 100° in this apartment. I haven't got the bed yet.
Tarl, run the show. Run the show. Tara, start. Who's a narcissist in your life?
Just you, mommy. Just you.
I know. Out of the one person you interact with on a daily basis, I am the most narcissistic of them all.
>> Child, you never got to experience safety. And I don't necessarily mean because you were physically abused. I mean, because you couldn't be yourself, right? So, I was telling Craig, >> look at yourself.
>> My book, it's not you, got on the New York Times bestseller list. Okay. And that was >> what is it called?
>> Huh? It's not you.
>> I want everybody I want everybody to know.
>> It's not you.
>> Classic.
>> The So, my classic. He hasn't read it.
>> What's it called? Your book. What's it called? Classic.
>> I didn't know what the name of it was one second ago, but it's a classic. My point is so I had spoken to an audience of business leaders back in November and I said to them, "Look at this book. It's on New York Times best." So doesn't that just make me the [ __ ] right? Not really. Now I'm very proud of the achievement.
>> I'm not buying this. I'm so sorry. Like I'm not buying what she's selling. I don't She's the expert on narcissism, right? So, she would be the expert on what to say to try to appear like you're not a narcissist, right? And I feel like she's like, "Shucks." I was on the New York Times bestseller list. It's called It's Not You and You should pick it up right now. And Craig, you know, you should you should pitch it really real quick. But I don't even care about that.
I just a little doctor. I don't even care that my book was so successful.
It's like, yes, you do. You do care. You care that you're connected to Will Smith. You care that you're on Mel Robbins podcast. Do you care to show up to Craig Seagull's mastermind, whatever the hell this is? Come on.
>> But it became and I literally said to my team, "Come hell or high water, this book is getting on the list, but I don't have the money to buy my own book. So, we're going to have to actually make people buy this book." So, for the next, >> if anything, that's even more narcissistic what she just said. I'm going to make this book number one.
Okay, who cares other than you? It's just a vanity number. I don't have money like other people who can just buy their books, which is true and it is an annoying thing that people can do. But now she's saying she's even better than those people because she did it organically. Narcissist alert. This situation is a red flag.
She doesn't like me screaming.
>> Six months. I don't blame her.
>> You You were part of that campaign. I was on your metric community and everything.
>> Day and night, Christmas, my birthday, my kids didn't see me. Like it was all I I had to get this done. It got done. But when I looked back, I thought, okay, got done. Very proud of it. But it was so obsessive.
>> She goes to the Mel Robbins School of Narcissism.
As long as you say that you've considered that your thoughts are nar that you what you've done is narcissistic, then it's forgiven. for me because I was trying to heal a wound.
You're not enough and you're only going to be seen if you do something important enough to make you seeable, to make you lovable. Right? Getting on the New York Times bestseller list felt less like an achievement and more like an attempt to get psychological safety in the world.
>> Okay, if you say so.
>> Okay. I want all of you to dig deep into yourselves and look into some of your deepest achievements. I wonder >> the thing is the irony of it is if she if the story was I didn't make the list and I'm still successful and I still feel good about myself and I learned that it's not all about that. But she did make the list. So now she's going to lecture us about oh you know you need to be not narcissistic.
I went and achieved my goal. Uh, but you know, if you don't, then you're just not as good as me, actually. I don't know.
It's like, I got something that I really wanted, but it's actually not that big of a deal. That hurts more than just being proud and happy that you've accomplished something. How much of this was simply so you could be seen, cherished, and loved. There was a little 5-year-old girl who desperately was trying to get the attention of the adults around her. And at almost the age of 60 did this thing. You know what? It was ironic. Those adults didn't notice a damn thing. People said, "Aren't you proud of your daughter?" And those adults said, "What?" And so, and it no longer mattered. It the monkey was off my back, but it wasn't about ego. It was about safety. And >> I think it's just her way of excusing her own narcissistic traits. Oh, for her it's different because it's about safety. Yeah, it is for everybody. I think even narcissists, they're doing it for a reason.
But in her case, it's different and it's actually fine. But for other people that post their breakfast, they're narcissists. Okay, got it. So, did getting the book on the list lead me to feel a little more safe? Ironically, yeah. Because it got the monkey off my back, you know, cuz that lack of safety was now something the child part of me was carrying. It's no longer real. These people have no longer power over me. I take care of myself. I do my own thing.
But here's where the story takes an interesting twist. I talked to some other people who had written books since in the years after. Tell me, Dr. Romney, how'd you get your book on the list? And I said, "I'd be happy to tell you." No, he got share you exactly the strategy.
And I laid it out step by step. And they looked at me like, "Girl, you're high. I am not doing all that. That well, how did you I They said, "That's going to take all my time." I said, "Yeah." And they said, "No, I I want a balanced life. I want my weekends. I want my evenings." I'm like, "Yeah, no, that that's not a thing." And they said, "No, balance is more important." I gave that advice to four people. None of the four took it. And guess what happened?
>> What?
>> None of the books made the list.
>> Oh my god.
spoken like a true narcissist.
I'm sorry.
I don't like this lady.
>> Wish I wish I could have said and all.
See, if this was a real TED talk, I'd say and all their books made the list, so you should seek out balance. No.
People who have been hurt and traumatized are usually the most successful people in the room because they're fighting against something so big and so powerful. And it's not ego, it's safety. And that's the loudest voice in you. Okay, but under this logic, wouldn't aren't the narcissists also just trying to seek safety because they want everyone to be obsessed with them and these big grand gestures and people paying attention to them. Isn't that about safety as well? So, either we're all narcissists or none of us are narcissists.
But in her case especially, she worked harder than everyone else and it proved to be she she especially did got her book on the New York Times bestseller. The other four people couldn't get it because they didn't put as much work and effort into it and there was nothing else going on. Again, that sounds like a nar she's trying to be special. That's what she said. If you're trying to be special as an adult, you're a narcissist.
>> Okay? And if you have h have been raised like this and you've been through this, your life becomes a crusade to I am going to show you I matter. And that's how you're building all this ridiculously impressive stuff you're all building. But at some point you got to let that terrified child in you know you did good and I got you. You don't owe anyone anything. But in her case, she did owe herself to win this achievement and the people who didn't didn't get the achievement. I don't know. Okay, >> please take that from here today.
>> She's like, I didn't have to learn that lesson because I accomplished what I wanted. You guys should just accept defeat because you're not going to be as hard of working as as I am.
She's really pulling from the crevices of her ass for this to connected to entrepreneurship. I'm sorry to say.
Also, >> it's so interesting because we're talking about this idea between wholeness and lack when I was speaking before you came up and everything that you just shared reminds me of just that because >> what lack >> lack outsources. I need this to feel safe or I need this to feel worthy. But just being able to go, you got this. I'm proud of you. You're good as you are.
And also, wouldn't it be nice if that's a whole different consciousness? Is that kind of we talking about wholeness?
>> Yeah. When I'm talking about wholeness, like you're talking thought he was talking about homeless. I'm like, who's homeless here? You ever see that Grant Cardone clip? Hey, homeless guy, clap it up. It's kind of a meme now. Anyways, I'll play it later.
>> Talking about sort of the the fully developed adult self, right? We're no longer responding to this primal voice of like, I need to be safe. if I need to be safe because there's a word we use in psychology called agency, right? If we're always responding to safety, >> this is the thing, Gabe, good question or a good statement. Everyone has narcissistic traits. Being an actual narcissist is different. I agree. And she started this whole conversation saying we're not talking about the disorder, so we're just talking about traits. But then she's saying like some people have it, some people don't. She's one that doesn't have it, of course. I'm just so confused. It seems like it's just really depending on how she feels and what she wants to believe at any given time, which if you apply the advice, it's like if you want to feel like someone's a narcissist, you can convince yourself of it. If you want to think they're not, you can also do the same. So, is it really useful advice?
Not in this context to me.
>> And and and fear, we can build incredible things, but we're going to wear ourselves out. But when the moment comes when we're like, I understand where some of this some of this drive comes from, and I'm going to access this, but I can also take a step back. I can care for myself. I can look at this more wholly. Then we can we can get that balance, that wholeness, as you say. But I got to tell you, Craig, a lot of people do the empire building when they're at some of their most traumatized states.
>> Does that make it wrong?
>> Doesn't make it wrong at all. I think it's my concern is people getting burned out and exhausted and honestly not looking at the incredible things that they have created because when people go through these relationships >> Yeah.
>> and they think if I they take a moment to even look at what they've created they're terrified that someone's going to take it away.
>> The parents going to say, "Who cares, son? That's not that big a deal. In my day, we did this. I could have done 10 times more if I had all the opportunities you have." or the ex- spouse saying, "Gh, whatever. You need so much attention." So, there's a fear.
There's a desperation to still say, "Look what I've created." And then there's still that fear of if I stick my head out too far, it's going to get lpped off.
>> Yeah. Amazing. I want to do something weird. I want to open it up real quickly, but I wanted to say, >> let's get weird, shall we?
>> Ask you a cup, and this is probably a Pandora's box to go toward, but is spirituality something that's important to you?
>> I'm curious. She's like, "A [ __ ] I gotta answer." And for for the record, just here's my hot take on this. As someone who again has sought out this type of content, like when I was I consider my mom to have very narcissistic traits, right? And when I was kind of figuring that out, I couldn't get enough of people talking about what narcissism is. I'd never heard of it. But at a certain point, I think it was hurting me to keep listening to it over and over and over again because then I start to go, "Everyone in my life is a narcissist."
And if you think everyone in your life is a narcissist, then you're going to feel really lonely, I think. And also, I'm questioning her personal ethics that she claims to have by going on Grifter platforms. So, that's my hot take. What she's saying is whatever. I don't know.
I don't think she's I don't find it very valuable anymore, personally.
>> Me? Yes. Yeah. Very much so.
>> Are you open to sharing what that looks like?
>> Yeah. So I was raised in a traditional Hindu family. Okay. And um it was you know if you I my parents immigrated so long ago that there was really not a way to do it outside of the house. So Hinduism is very much a religion practice in the home right the shrine and my mom um who passed suddenly this July. But I carry her spirituality very much part of our lives. And so I think for me even the narcissistic folks but I think it's buried under so much stuff whenever you get to it. There is this true again this this energetic force inside of everyone. That's the piece again in Hinduism we call it moaksha.
It's this it's the energy that goes forward. All the rest of this is just it's nonsense. You know like those of you are Buddhist and your focus we talk about maya which is the illusion of the material world. So I believe within everyone there's this extraordinary spirit that's gotten butchered by this world that has expectations. If everyone could be seen as they are, I mean, the human potential would actually almost blow us up. I mean, most people have been limited by these conditions of worth, you know, you need to do this, you need to be this, you need to look like this. And it's not just parents.
It's social media saying you need to have this car, you need to have this face, you need to look 20 when you're 60, you have to look 50 when you're 100, you have to live till you're 140 years old. And so so much so much of the religious practice I was brought up in was how do you stay in a moment? How do you stay in your body? And our bodies carry all all this truth. And the disconnect between here and this is the source of half the problem. So for me it's not it's very much that I believe that there's insane amounts of healthy untapped gorgeous health and potential in people that has been blocked by these conditions of worth or by the insecurities of narcissistic people who are being given the keys to the kingdom and telling everyone else like I'm going to step on your heads so you're this small and I can be this big. a healthy person. In a healthy relationship, you can succeed, I can succeed, and it's fine. In a narcissistic relationship, the other person has to be down so the other person can be up. There's no shared there's no shared um success. There's no shared power, if you will. Yeah, there's >> Okay, again, go I don't mean to and I do mean to harp on it, but the breakfast thing is really the thing that's sticking with me because again, like she's saying, "Oh, in order to be narcissist, other people have to be down and you have to be up." In the breakfast scenario, who's down in that by posting on your own breakfast, your breakfast, and in her words, you're expecting people to give a [ __ ] Okay, but how is that putting anyone down by doing that?
So I don't understand the definition of what she's saying narcissists are. She's it's varied based on what she's saying >> done in the word power does pattern. So that's what I believe is that everyone has this capacity to all of you have all of us everyone city everyone has this part of us now the most messed up people out there you're just never going to get to it. There's just too much of that darkness around it. It's too it's too buried. It's almost like an archaeological site that we don't have the tools to get to.
>> That was beautiful. Thank you so much for sharing that. pulling back the curtain and um yeah give it up likewise and um >> so is she Hindu anymore or religious? I didn't really get an answer.
>> It's funny you mentioned something. We live in a in a world right now that celebrates like you said people that are 70 looking 25.
>> Thank you. This is actually a dress.
>> Can you believe it? spending all this money and longevity and biohacking and I to the extent I understand why some of them want to do that for the right reasons.
>> Sure.
>> But there's so many people are so keen on how they look compared to what they are. I imagine it's narcissistic.
>> I think that >> he's like is it narcissistic? Also get the camera uh pointed at my new do real quick and and are you getting a closeup of my three-piece navy suit here? If a person listen I've sat in front of enough longevity conferences where like if you eat exactly this and you sleep exactly that and you do exactly this and I'm like you have no one in your life clearly if you're able to do all of you know what I'm saying it's that it's this tradeoff right somebody's like I'm going to eat my kale at 4:30 in the morning at 4:40 I'm going to go do this I'm going to meditate for this by the time I I'm a caregiver of an elderly parent I've got two kids I've got a business I'm running I've got some other family members with stuff by By the time I get through that check list, kale, like I'm lucky that I've that picked up a brown banana and a diet coke. You know what I'm saying? So, it's this I think that these unrealistic standards, but but I will tell you this, that whole morning was driven by compassion. You know, is the older person is is someone checking in on them or am I checking in on them? Have I checked in on the patient? I'm not saying I'm some kind of damn saint or anything like that. But you are saying that she lo she's not beating the narcissism allegations. Whoever smelt it dealt it.
Right.
She doesn't even have time for kale because she's caring about elderly people.
Huh?
If it's like let people live. I think if some people want to live their life and eat kale at 4 p.m. that doesn't make them a narcissist or a bad person. I'm sorry. But that makes her a good person because she drinks a Diet Coke instead.
What?
She's lost me completely now. And that was my fear. How can you go on all these podcasts and still make coherent sense and not be boring at a certain point?
It's because she's just making [ __ ] up to be entertaining. And that's what we need to know. This is in my op opinion.
Uh, Turnbuckle 10. Thank you so much.
Turnbuckle 10. Turnbuckle says, "Shout out to all my fellow narcissists.
looking at you. Wayne. Wayne in the house.
Wayne in the house.
And I have this to say >> certain I was not.
>> I feel like I'm a clown in a circus.
>> I'm kind of a wild guy.
>> I just liked being able to get away with whatever I wanted.
I am the most liberal.
>> Thank you, Turnbuckle 10. I appreciate it. Last one.
>> My family thought I was off my rocker.
>> True.
Yeah, I agree. This is exactly what I feel like. She says some good stuff and then she humble brags so hard. Spoken like a true narcissist. And also, Sy knife, you're a narcissist because you No, wait. You're not a narcissist because you you ate a brown banana and that is a sign of virtue apparently. I just learned. Okay. All right.
>> What I'm saying is it's an alignment with value. And what I really believe and this where I'm kind of sick of this whole longevity biohacking world is it's not a living in alignment with values.
Unless a person's value is I want to live to be 150 years old. To what point everyone you know is going to be dead.
There's no consideration of other human beings. I don't want to be the last one standing. I don't want to show all my friends and my sister and everyone die.
I kind of like to go in the middle of the pack. I just want someone in the room when I die, you know? And so it's someone at the funeral. If you go last, who's going to show? And so that's the but I think that my the concern is and I'm going to be very frank with you. Go ahead. If somebody asked me what is the factor that is contributing to early mortality above all else more than smoking and everything I >> more than smoking okay let's hear it diet coke more than smoking what's leading to early death this is going to be a big statement I can't wait >> above all else more than smoking and everything. I think it's beating these kinds of relationships. Living a life of invalidation, manipulation, emotional abuse.
>> Now, is this backed by science in any [ __ ] way at all?
It feels like again she's pulling stuff out of her ass. Oh, smoking bad, but being in a narcissistic relationship is worse. Okay, sure. That's a a theory. Is there any backing to support that? I don't know. I'd love to hear it.
>> It messes you up. It screws with corticosteroids.
It screws with neuro hormones. It screws with neurotransmitters. In my community, thousands of people are going through these narcissistic relationships. I want you to take a guess. Okay? So, I'm telling you now, the rate of autoimmune anes Oh, no. Is >> 3 to 5%. Okay. Tell me what the rate of autoimmune illness is in my community.
In my community of narcissist hunters, we go out with pitchforks and just slay the population. They're my community.
>> People who are survivors.
>> What?
>> Survivors of what?
>> 10% >> 80% >> 80.
>> 80%.
>> A gasast.
>> Is that the right term or is it a gasp?
I'm a ghast.
>> They get cancer. They don't get better.
They get ill, it goes faster. They get ill, nobody cares for them. So, you got you've got to understand that honestly, >> stick your tail up your ass. Get these people out of your life.
>> What people, though? I still don't know what people I'm supposed to be kicking out of my life. And if I if someone does something wrong to me, I'm supposed to not tell them.
What?
>> I'm sorry I didn't >> What? Nice.
>> This is awesome. I'm just taking in the moment.
>> He is searching for validation, which I've heard is a narcissistic trait of some.
You guys get a load of this. Get a load of my guest that I spent 10 grand on.
>> She's great.
>> She's awesome.
She's so the woman who drinks Diet Coke for >> Oh, she drinks Diet Coke. She's so relatable.
>> I want to be relatable. That's actually the vibe I'm getting here. And also, >> I love selling stuff online.
>> I want to be relatable.
>> Of course, she has a community. Also, you can't, this is the thing, too. You can't actually help thousands of people as one clinician. You can't. You could write a book and give your two cents and go on podcasts and give your two cents, but to collect a community and I'm assuming charge money to be in her presence and to hear about her theories on stuff, you're actually doing these people a disservice. I think you should direct them into one-on-one counseling personally and then only offer these larger things as like supplemental to start to go my community is special and they all have autoimmune disease and d it's like maybe they should seek actual help from someone who can actually get to know that person because you are one person and don't physically have enough time or bandwidth to do it.
>> Anyways, >> I want to do something I'm always looking at you know what I love the kale but like the kale you can't have the kale and the narcissistic bears to think you're going to live a long time like drink the diet coke get rid of the kale get rid of the husband potato again this is like a like speaking of dinner parties this is like someone who has an opinion at a dinner party this is not a doctor who's giving their clinical opinion on personality disorders.
Dump your husband who's a narcissist.
It It'll be better for you than smoking.
Huh?
Drink a diet coke, not kale. What are you saying? Okay. Sorry.
This is amazing. Guys, I want to do something interesting. I want to bring us together as a community here. I'm a huge advocate for community. What we're doing here, Dr. Man, has your own community. I think it's the most important thing. And so >> you got a community. You got a community. You got a community. We're going to combine them right now.
>> Let's open it up real quick and just see maybe someone a couple people could share on what Dr. Romani shared today.
What resonated, what created an aha, what you learned, and if you're open to sharing it, I'm sure that would inspire someone else to maybe be vulnerable as well.
I'm going to predict that every single one of these people is going to tell deeply personal stories about someone in their life and how they are victimized by that person and she is going to validate every single thing they say whether it's insane or normal. That's my prediction because that's in her best interest to get these people to buy her book and to go yes. Woo! Narcissism.
>> Okay. Yes. too.
>> Can we get our mic? Is that possible?
>> This is the no cut edit. How am I seven years ago?
I read audio books.
>> It's good to know someone.
>> I read all your I watch all your tubes.
I take a note at journals.
You've helped me uh bring a level of understanding and insight to a very painful on inside years and a narcissist whom I share poor children with. And with all the information that I have, with all the insights that I have, with all the even sitting in silence with what I've taken in, and I'm such a jerk, but every time anyone has a question, I'm like, get to the point. Get to it, please, for the love of God. People whenever they get a microphone, if if you're not used to having a microphone, you get a moment to have a microphone, people just want they want to hold on to it as long as possible. I got something to say.
I've watched all your videos, all your audiobooks, all your emails. Like, okay, girl, we get it. Get to it.
>> I seven years later, I still get triggered. I'm I still feel trapped.
I feel like I can't break free completely from it and send her to a therapist's office sitting. This is the problem. People in this audience probably think therapy is not for me. I'm above it. It's not for me. I'm going to go to Craig Seagull's business mastermind and cry. That's the same crowd that goes to Tony Robbins.
They're above therapy and then they're telling Tony Robbins they want to end their life and and they're expecting him to, you know, solve it when within 5 seconds. I don't get it.
>> I think part of >> you can tell these people are emotionally unstable because I have children with this person and he's kind of my co-parent and I'm always torn between but he's our father. He's their god-given father. And I I'm torn between pushing them to have a relationship with their father and then being like, "He's gonna [ __ ] him up like he [ __ ] killed me."
>> You know, I I go I'm constant battle in my head. And then I realize that I'm still fighting battles, scrubbing words and behaviors and manipulation to betray.
>> And again, like, what question are you asking? This people just want to be heard. And it's like, go to a therapist's office. They will actually listen to you. You're obviously deeply desiring and hungering for someone to listen to you. You can pay for that today.
>> So many six, seven years later, I'm I'm still every day consciously having to scrub that off my feet so I can feel free.
And I have moments where I feel free.
And then I have that's where I feel I'm still trapped.
First of all, thank you. Give it up. I question all the >> I literally nword for years and I just I was I refused to let this be my story and I wanted to be better for my children and I did the work and I watched all the things. She did the work, right? She's saying, "I did the work. I read your books." This is Okay, actually, I'm getting I'm getting triggered now. This is the exact position I was in in 2020. I had done tons of these, you know, seminary things, these yoga classes, these group classes, these meditations. I was talking to a life coach. I was doing all this [ __ ] in 2020. And I never felt I would could have gone to a situation like that and cried as well because my I felt so out of control in my life. I felt like everything was crumbling.
Nothing was going my way. And I'm like, I've done everything. I've listened to Tony Robbins 24 hours a day. I I watch Gary Vee and I'm taking in all these advice and I'm trying and I don't know.
And it's like because you you think you're doing the work. You think because they tell you Mel Robbins tells you doing the work is listening to this podcast. Doing the work is spending $1,000 to go to Craig Seagull's mastermind. Doing the work is listening to her audio book. It's not. It's only delaying you from actually doing the work which is starting to talk and in my experience at least open up about your life. All you're doing is listening to other people talk about their life. You can't in my opinion the work doesn't start until you get with somebody who's a trusted person who you can start to unpack your life with. It sounds like this lady ain't there yet. Not a lick close. and she thinks because she's in the self-help space and this wellness [ __ ] personal development world that she's done the work. That's a dangerous place to be in because you feel like you have no way out. That's how I felt at least. Anyways, >> do you ever break free? I'm free.
>> So, let's let's break that down.
>> What is the remedy? Because there's I move it off. No remedy. I want to die.
If you decide to die, I've been sick for years.
>> There's no remedy. So, let's break.
>> That's This is obviously a deeply >> I don't want to say disturbed, but kind of disturbed person. She's in a crisis.
This is not the again the pl such a serious topic to be delivered in such a nonchalant way with no clinical barriers at all. It's unhealthy for people. This is the thing I hate about this [ __ ] And they just continue to do it. going to a Mel Robbins event and she's talking about narcissism and she's talking about psychological issues and anxiety and depression. The people who are attracted to that need help deeply and this is not the help. This is one random lady's two cents who is a narcissist probably.
Anyways, thank you to Carolyn. Thank you so much, Carolyn. Thank you for saving me from myself. Caroline says, "Thank you for covering this. Her channel helped me a lot in the past, but then when I saw her on Tom Billy's podcast, I was so disappointed. Yeah, that's kind of the vibe I've gotten from a bunch of comments tonight. And I do I I didn't really watch her specifically too much, but definitely in the beginning, I was listening to her too when I was looking at narcissist stuff, and I thought it to be helpful as well. So, I don't knock anyone for listening to this type of content in a time of need. However, I think it's their responsibility, which they will not take. they will not live up to their responsibility of going this is not going to solve your problems.
This is shedding insight on possibly what is going on in your life and actually possibly not at all what's going on in your life. Actually, you might be deeply disturbed and people are treating you in your opinion badly because you're abusing them. Who's to say because it's a one-sided conversation? That's the problem with all this stuff. Anyways, >> I'm scared.
>> And secondly, >> I love myself so much.
>> Direct quote. Also, >> I'm spending too much time working, too much time giving.
>> Direct quote number two. And thirdly, >> I'm outside the Cheesecake Factory waiting for it to open.
>> So true, Carolyn. And thank you to Amy.
Amy, thank you so much as always. Amy says, "What happened to the walk it off days?" Now walk it off. Now walk it off.
What's I walk it off? It's how side I walk it off. Is that what you mean?
>> I still have dyslexia.
>> Just kidding. I gotta get back into the into the fun mindset. That went to a dark place. Went to a dark place, you guys. We need to Let's just get in the mango frequency real quick.
>> The mango frequency.
>> It's so quantum.
>> I'm a medium. I channel all day. Am I the only hippie? And finally, okay, I'm healed now. Thank you.
Actually, I need one more. I need to burp it out.
I want to throw up. Hold on.
Okay, back to it. Thank you.
>> That way of thinking. Okay, I want you to think that there's no there's no cure. See, first of all, I want to go back and try to remember as many things as you said here. I don't give a [ __ ] about him.
>> No, no, no, no, no, no. We don't get We don't get But I'm saying for you there's even there's no When I When we say remedy, we almost feel like we're going to have this lifted off our shoulders, right? Let's talk a little bit about how trauma works. I'm going to go to an earlier part of your question. I'm still being triggered. Of course, you're still being triggered. Traum this trauma system we have in our body is it's perfect. It's really well designed. It is designed to do one thing and one thing only, and that's to keep you alive. That's it. That's what it does.
It's not to keep you happy. It's not to keep you satisfied. It's not to keep you successful. It's to keep you alive. So, it overcorrects. It's like having an ADT system on your house that goes off if a moth flies by the front door. Right?
Drive you nuts, but no one's getting to that house, are they? Right? So, your ongoing triggering number one, this person's still in your life. I'm guessing some of your kids might still be minors. Okay? So, some of your kids are still minors. The threat isn't gone.
Think of somebody who developed PTSD in a war. They come home from the war.
They're no longer sitting in Vietnam or Afghanistan or some other place. They're not in those places anymore. They're sitting here home theoretically safe and they're still jumping out of their skin, when a car backfires, when a helicopter flies by, when a door slams, right? And they're not in those places anymore.
Okay? Why? Because that trauma system is keeping them safe. You're this is the ex that poor person has to keep commuting back to Afghanistan and come back every week. We like well why are they why are they on that trigger? Because the body held it. In your case, you're doing the equivalent of commuting back and forth into the war zone. Okay. So the threat is always there.
>> Number two piece here. Okay. So the triggering is happening on an ongoing basis in some ways because you're still having to dance with the threat. Okay?
So keep that in mind. And so things like grounding exercises, mindfulness, breathing, all of that. That would matter. Number two, you don't need to turn their dad into a hero. You just can't talk badly about him. That's it.
Don't stop. You don't have to say your dad's a great guy. You just can't speak badly. You might say, "Why? That's not fair." No, it's not fair. But your children get >> Yeah, I agree. You should never talk badly about your spouse to your children if they are, you know, having to go over to his house and live there. Like, it's not going to be good. I agree with that.
Messed up. When you're their safe person, they still have to attach to their dad. Okay? And if you their safe person is making the person they have to attach to unsafe, now you're a confusing person and their body feels abandoned by you. Okay? So, it's almost as though you either don't say anything over and the kid says, "Gosh darn it, why is he have to go to dad's house and say you want what's going on?" Like, "What's how can how can I help you with this?" Or they come back and say, "Dad's always yelling. He's always so mad." Then you don't say, "Ah, that daddy is got a temper." You say things like, "You know, it's funny thing. Grown-ups are worse at regulating their emotions than kids."
And and you know, if a grown-up can't keep their emotions together, that's not a you thing. That's a them thing. You see what I'm using language like grownup, not or adult, not your dad.
Okay, there's that piece. But what about this last piece, which is >> Craig's getting real. He's taking his suit coat off.
>> How how what's the remedy? How do I get out of this prison? Okay, the prison is how do I feel fully free of this? I want to share with you something that a collaborator and a a friend and I think one of the greatest voices in trauma out there, a guy named Dr. Dr. Gabra Mate has said, >> "Oh, Mate, he's another one that's a lot of people love him and he's controversial as well in my opinion because I think he's gone on probably a little less than her, but also on many of the Grifter podcasts and all the Red Pill podcasts. Not all, but some of the Red Pill podcasts. I know Chameleia really likes him." You know who Chamilleia really likes? And if you know who Chameleia is, she's one of my friends from YouTube. She has used to have a YouTube channel. We used to have a channel together. Chamilleia Kazan.
She loves David Gogggins. It's so weird.
I always make fun of her and go, "Oh my god, you're insane." But she loves him and she loves him unironically. And hey, to each its own, to each his own. And Crystal G, thank you so much. Crystal G131 says, "Thank you, Kia and Tarot. Can I get a clear clear?" Yes, of course you can get a clear clear.
Hold on. I gotta find it.
Click, click, click. Where is that?
>> It's so quantum.
>> As I was sitting in the cold plunge.
>> Click, click, click. That's a great question. She cleans the toilets.
>> That's gross. TBH, >> there's there's something I call bullshitting yourself.
>> You know what? Just for that, I'm going to find it on my computer and add it.
Clear. Clear. Because it is that gosh darn important. This is my narcissism.
I'm going to find it because I am so talented in finding things.
Um, okay. Hold that thought, Crystal G.
I am going to find it, but I'm going to keep playing in the meantime so I don't just have dead noise.
>> Such a wise insight. He shared with me read something. He said, "Ramedy, there's no pain-free path. There's no path without pain." And this is where people get stuck. They're like, "There's got to be a way to get out of this that doesn't hurt." I'm like, "No, you get out of it." I talked with someone in this audience. It's post separation abuse. It's lawsuits and anger and rage and stalking.
>> Found it. Hear it.
>> Clear, clear, clear.
>> One more for the road.
>> Clear, clear, clear.
>> There you go.
You stay in it. And it's self-abandonment and emotional abuse. So these >> Thank you, Crystal G.
>> Neither of these paths are good ones, right? So what you did was so ridiculously courageous because all the things you faced, you still made the choice for freedom to give your children a different model that people don't stay in relationships where they're being crushed. That was powerful. Now that doesn't mean that people who stay are cowardly or foolish. They have had a different calculation in their decision.
Right? You're in this room today. There is a very very strong community seeking part of you. So it's not not all is not lost. You're here. That's you. You came into this room. And there's parts of you that still feel trapped mostly because you still got to interact with this person. But when you realize that this you, the you that's in this room, that's the part you're kind of trying to muscle up because she is authentic and she is aware aware. But I don't want you to have unrealistic expectations about where you could take this. You show up as the best person and the best safest parent that you can with your kids. And by and large, they're slowly going to learn you're safe. You're a place they can land. But it's it's going to be a bumpy ride with them. Your kids are going to be anxious cuz their dad is scared.
>> I'm not going to sugarcoat that part for you. Like there is no pain-free path. So sometimes just those realist that realistic radical acceptance, awareness, expectations is enough to get us out of an unrealistic belief because then we feel like we're failing, >> right? The fact that you get up, the >> He's holding it on her poor on his poor audience members head too.
>> Fact that you devoted time to this for you. The fact that you keep showing up for your kids and the fact that you made that painful decision to step out. These are they've shown as such amazing strengths. The prison can last a long time. But then in a way we have to say to how much how often do I have the key in my hand? Can I stick my head out and say okay I can step in, I can step out.
But as listen, there's going to be a point where you have less interaction with him.
>> Um, just so we take a quick second. This is the event. So this was the event that this woman signed up for, right? Um, it says, "Two months ago, 160 souls gathered at Glass House Chelsea for CLS Genesis. It was a room full of people who decided they're done playing small."
Okay, that's the Grifters uh, slogan 101. done waiting, done negotiating with their potential. You could feel it in the conversations, the breakthroughs, the energy, and in the intention behind every single speaker we brought into the space. There's something extraordinary that happens when the right souls get in the right room. Curated with care and precision, we're still feeling the ripple effect from that day. And now we're stepping into the final chapter of this trilogy, the Portal Genesis. Now CLS formation.
Uh I guess they had a Cabala guy coming in too. Interesting.
Uh so that's the next thing. So that was the retelling. How do they advertise the last event?
Huh? Imagine the propaganda it took to make you believe that. Believe what?
I don't get I don't I don't get it.
I don't got it. Okay, I guess that's it. So, it's really about stopping playing small. Whatever that means is what this event is all about.
Okay.
>> But for now, pay attention to how much you don't >> really have a drive.
>> That's great.
>> My thing is is that >> I was married 25 years.
>> Yeah, that's a long time you set up.
>> Yes. And I feel like over the course of those years, specifically the last second or so, really chipped away at like my second itself.
>> Yes.
>> And maybe believe that I'm crazy and all the and >> like what do you what do you want her to do about this? Like she's like, I'm just going to tell my story and then and you give her the mic back. Like what do you want her to say? She said everything she can really say. She doesn't know you.
Give the mic to someone else. I don't know. Like go to therapy again. like seek someone one-on-one. Go to see a spiritual counselor. I don't know, but like this is the wrong platform to be airing your laundry about your husband.
I'm sorry.
>> Wednesday and I'm fully aware of all the good all the research you can pass and I still feel like that conditioning. It is also sometimes where I just really want to bring I feel like I can't fully come into my power and be that thing inside of me that I know want because I I'm this someone that is so [ __ ] destroyed.
>> If you come at your if you come out to your full power though, there's danger in that too. did and I as much you see you keep your we use the word think too much. I the other day I had a client who's being severely narcissistically abused. She must have said I think 75 times in the session and every time I tried to bring it to I feel. I think I think I think I think we can research the hell out of things, right? But this is the feel. It's it's getting into this this this stuff that sometimes doesn't even have words to it. But part of it is I want to come into my own power. I I think I think I want to come into my power. You can you come in your power is actually your body is saying girl that's dangerous please don't do it okay and >> girl don't have powerm no power for you girl >> so and it's not using words right it's this I need to stay small like I said that's why I don't get my head locked up that's what it is and that awareness that this is a safety response I'm not going to get too big or I'm going to get the you know it's like the eye is going to be on me can't get too big and you realize safety. It was like >> I got to take a screenshot.
Greg. Craig. This is so funny.
His best work yet. Oh, Craig, you crack me up. You big goofball.
>> This is gold. Straight up.
>> The eye is going to be on me. Kenda too big. And you realize that's >> says I want to come into my power. What does that even mean? That means getting rich by grifting other people. Being a cult leader on a small level in my opinion that's what they mean by that I want to have my own community of people I can tell how to think that's what I think they mean by step into their power >> safety then you can work on compassion for the self rather than I I want to get into my I need to get into my own power which feels like you're challenging yourself instead of caring for yourself which for 25 years you want >> it's a twist in thinking instead of power think about it as care I' is a I'm doing this to be safe. Most people who've been through long-term methic ages or raised by narcissistic parents have had to learn to fully abandon themselves. Self-abandonment becomes how you attach. Silencing ourselves, suppressing ourselves, abandoning ourselves, then we can have a relationship, right? So that means coming into ourselves means we're going to be alone, rejected, or frankly in frank danger. So the body pulls back.
No, no, no, don't do that. And so you feel almost a mysterious pull back.
>> Thank you for sharing that. to open it up.
>> I just for the sake of time, I'm sure everyone >> Oh, sorry about the ad stuff. So, I guess YouTube has changed it now where they play ads if you monetize, which I do. They play ads now. They have It was like a different setup. I have it set to medium. So, we'll try low next. I won't ever put it to high, but this is the medium amount. Just FYI, we can try low next time. Ether maybe show me hang out for a little bit but I want to take two more and let you try it. I know it's very bullet stop half metal chemist alchemist I meant um I did do that on the last stream last week. I went through all the court not all the court documents but a few of the court documents and watched part two of their love story. So if you want to watch that one there is like a 2hourish stream on that. I thought it was pretty juicy. say this, but let's just try eB like short and sweet so she can answer a couple and then we'll we'll go on with the next section.
>> Keep it short and sweet. Everyone stop telling all your trauma in this group setting on YouTube as well.
>> Just going to give it a like.
>> Hi, thank you so much for bringing awareness to this topic. I think you've opened doors for a lot of people obviously, but also Cathy Gilling. Uh, can you talk a little, we talk a lot about the overt, arrogant, dramatic, attention-seeking narcissists, but what about those who aren't so obvious, who are the, you know, the victim at any case of feedback, passive aggressive, and um, so that's one part because the process is so different because the the I'm crazy part.
>> This is so true. Cowgirl says, "Working at a library taught me people seriously just want to be heard by anyone, qualified or unqualified. It's really sad, but people are hurting so badly they're ready to trauma dump on anyone.
Yes, 100%. And these types of events where there is a charismatic leader or not even a charismatic leader, but any type of leader that's using buzzwords like play small, live to your potential, um you know, you're in your own way, all these vague terms about life is not that great for you. They are probably a lot of them come very traumatized, very unheard, very sad and very vulnerable and they end up in situations like this where they're just saying everything that's going on and it's like this is the wrong setting. But they love those people because they pay money forever.
They'll they'll be in their funnel forever. They love them. Stay broken.
That's what they hope.
>> Art is so different asking for a friend and I third YouTube premium. It is so worth it on my side, too. Like, it's 15 13 something a month, which I know it's not nothing, but it is since I got it, I so much enjoy it. Like, never seeing an ad again has been so nice.
And and also, why do we attract these people into our lives? Whether they're overt or covert, why do we attract these people into our lives? What what's our makeup that? because we're all human beings and we're all suffering in our own ways and people are dealing with these issues the best way they know how and and it hurts people sometimes but they're just people at the end of the day they're not some sort of mutant human form that's attracted to successful business leaders only >> draws that >> I'm going to address your second question you you don't first of all you attract them because you're attractive >> okay narcissistic people do not want to spend time with you dulk up their rant >> right >> so take a moment and say I'm attractive some >> I don't think that's true but okay >> something about me whatever it is the way I look the way I carry myself the people I know the into my intelligence they are not slumming that is not a good look for a narcissistic person so if you've drawn one in you had some zaz I love you also using that word you have so I think everyone thinks like do I have a neck sign around my neck that says sucker no you have a sign around your neck that says all that gorgeous exciting that's what they were drawn to.
I don't know about that.
>> Two. Okay. It's almost like a parasitic power grab and your power might be your youth. It might be your beauty, your intellect, whatever it may be. Okay.
That's number one.
Number. So, stop thinking that you because this is more self-lame. I drew this this really harmful person. No, you're attractive. That's what it was.
And that what happened.
>> The universe doesn't make mistakes. Your vibes attract what you want most in life. So if you receive a narcissistic person, it's because the univer you told the universe with your thoughts that that's what you wanted. Aka the secret aka the laws of manifestation. So actually you should blame yourself, girly pop. Change your vibes, change your life.
>> There are things in our history that can keep us stuck in these relationships.
Have you been a victim of or having been a survivor of trauma, having been a survivor of abuse? Um, uh, having gone through these relationships even in adulthood in the past, history of adversity in childhood, being optimistic. Being optimistic is is sort of a bit of a suck because you're like, everyone can change and everyone has light inside of them and I just got to lone harder. Don't do it. Don't do it.
He's just I I mean I wear my pessimism very big and it has gotten me out of many. So the optimism being forgiving.
I'm going to forgive everyone because that's holy.
>> I mean I'm going to tell you now God's job is to forgive not yours.
>> Yeah.
>> I don't agree. I'm sorry. And I don't know how that's clinical either. Like your opinion is you don't have to forgive people. Okay. Well, my opinion is you should try to if you can. I think there there is a lot of benefits to forgiving people who've misreated you in your life. Do you have to bring them back into your life? No. But to forgive them to allow yourself to start to move on, I think that's a positive trait. It doesn't mean you're a sucker personally, but okay, I guess I'm wrong.
>> I didn't feel like building, but I thought I'll get back. But so, so all of those things are what keep us stuck. The best parts of us are what keep us stuck in these relationships. Our empathy, our compassion, our kindness, our belief in second chances, loving this person, and then of course there's safety and attachment, too. Now, let's go to the second part of your question. It's not always arrogance, entitlement, a swagger, charm, charisma, confidence.
Sometimes it's victimhood, being agrieved, always being angry, always being irritable, blaming you for why things in their life didn't work out.
Okay, but couldn't you say the same thing about the woman who asked the question before? She's like, I can't step into my power, whatever that means, because my ex-husband's a is a narcissist. I can't be the person I'm supposed to be because of my ex-husband.
Blah blah blah blah blah. Isn't that what she's just describing now is a narcissistic trait to go, you know, the reason I'm not more successful is this other person. Again, the way that she's describing this, I feel like everyone in the world can relate. It's like horoscopes. Someone said it in the comments earlier. I agree. It's like a horoscope where like you can look at every single thing in the horoscopes and go, "That's me. That's me. That's me.
That's me. That's not so much me. That's not so much me." But like all of it, if you think about it, on a certain day, it is you because it's so vague and it's so dependent that it actually loses all of its relevance. Also, this is a hilarious screenshot.
Many a girl in New Jersey received this exact image minus the clothing from Craig. Okay, sorry.
>> Being passive aggressive when they don't get their way. Right. That's not so shiny, right? Those grandiose folks are actually kind of fun for a while. Like they're like let's let's >> also just for everyone's reference, please disagree. I do not mind at all.
You are allowed to disagree and voice that. I have no qualms about it >> for dinner. And and whereas the vulnerable and this is the these people who are more passive and victimized. The vulnerable narcissistic folks will say, "Why the hell do I need to take your jerk of a brother-in-law pay for dinner?
He's just a blah blah blah." And the the grandiose bread is like, "Let's just buy dinner for everyone in the restaurant because I need everyone to love me. It's kind of a better game, right?" But in the vulnerable cakes, the challenge is there's often there's often failure to launch. There's sadness. There's social anxiety. You feel like they can't tie their own shoes sometimes. So, you may feel pity, grief, and guilt. If you think empathy is sticky, try those things because now you're like, "I feel so bad." Oh, what are they going to do if I leave them? They cry like I'm never I I I don't know what I'm going to do.
You know what? And then some might even make more leveled up threats like I'm going to hurt myself if you do something right. And so now you feel like I can't go. I feel terrible. They they can't tie their own shoes kind of thing.
>> So that the process of disconnecting from this is not only more confusing cuz it doesn't feel like grandiose like this person's going to be fine. A grandiose narcissist already has their new person waiting in the wings. You leave, they're dating this person the next day and they claimed it's a coincidence. I met this person the day after my divorce. Did you? Yes. Okay. But in the case of this, these are people who for a long time.
This is the And many times people not only might have a partner like this, they may have a parent like this, particularly a mother like this. This is the form of narcissism that shows up in mothers. I did so much for you, but I guess now you didn't bring the glass of water.
Like, oh, well, you know, I guess who who has time for an old lady? You know, I did so much for you. I give up everything. I give up my career for you.
But I understand. I I I wouldn't want to spend time with me either. You know, I understand vacation. What is that?
Jamaica. You you you have your life. You have your life. And oh, you have to get your hair done. Yeah. No, that's more important than me. I got this dementia that might come someday to be like, "Oh my god, I'm going to I'm going to go gray." Like, it's not that you want to spend time with mom. It's just Thanks, Peace. Train jump. Is that a mic drop, homie? Microphone. I love it. It looks so beautiful.
Craig, this is Craig.
Real size.
Oh man, great uh comment. That's really cute. I love that. Wait, what?
I speak Spanish pretty well. Pinchos.
She looks scary.
God was like, "You're done. Thanks, Peace. Train jump." Okay. You just wanted to end. You want her to [ __ ] up.
Okay. So then what happens is it's this constant surrender to shut the person up. It's still self-abandonment. The different burden you carry with a malignant or grandiose narcissist, it's more of a almost sometimes even a fear, you know, a fear of either the malignancy or fear that they're moving on to a very happy future without me.
>> Her charisma is straight up off the charts.
>> So true.
>> The vulnerable narcissist is you feel bad and so you give in because you feel bad. I find for most people the process of detaching and disengaging from a vulnerable narcissistic relationship is much much more difficult other than the malignant narcissistic relationships which feel dangerous to leave. It's different.
>> This is how I feel about this and I was trying to think of a good symbol that could kind of explain what I feel like and maybe this is not fully exactly but imagine learning how to swim for the first time and you're watching videos online of people swimming and you're like okay that's how you swim. Here's a stroke. Here's this. and you watch the videos. You watch the videos and then one day you're pushed into the ocean. Do you think you're gonna know how to swim because you watch a bunch of videos? No.
And I think you probably would drown.
That's how I feel about this topic because it is so sensitive. It is so personal. that is so one-on-one that if you're not actually doing the thing and you're by doing the thing I mean talking about your situation to someone that may be able to help you like a therapist or a psychologist or someone that's a trusted source in your life. You're not going to be able to even tackle the problem and then something bad's going to happen and you're not going to know what to do. I don't know. It's just it's not enough. It's a it's a a a dip of your toe in a pond where you need swimming lessons to get through it, you know, and these people who just go to these over and over and over again are not getting that actual lesson.
>> Kinds of patterns, but it can make especially with a mother, they that as that person goes into older of life, it it feels like the caregiving burden of like from Mountus. It's awful. Oh, >> the icy Dr. Romani.
>> I could say I admire you. I love the way that you showed up today. Meeting you first is I didn't even get better from having a virtual relationship. You're amazing. I love the work that you're doing in the world. It's so meaningful.
>> Why would they have a relationship?
Craig is not. Okay, whatever. And the way that you share things today, I can see that there's tears which is really special. I know that everyone wants a piece of her would probably love to go deeper >> for the sake of time can with everybody.
What's Are you sticking around?
>> I'll stick around. Yeah. Yeah.
>> Did you bring your book?
>> Did I Did I bring I didn't bring >> We're going to be giving away some books.
>> But also, how do you recommen one for a friend or someone that you know value? He's never read it and he doesn't even know the name of it.
>> She's going to stick around the same time. We're going to take a 3minut break then we're going to bring on a but real quickly.
>> I know that everyone in this room wants to go deeper. What's the best way for them to explore what you were up to, go deeper, stay more involved in your movie.
>> There's a lot of ways as you had mentioned. There's a YouTube channel.
There's books. I mean, >> look at how it ruined her this woman's life apparently. She's like, "Yeah, like the woman who was uh emotionally unstable and crying in the audience earlier, do what she did and watch me on YouTube for 5 years and feel actually worse afterwards apparently." Yeah, that's what you guys should do.
>> So, there's that stuff that you can take at your own pace. We have a healing program for people who've been through these relationships, which is an intensive experience where we have workshops and question answers.
>> Wait, wait, wait, wait. What is she talking now? Hold on.
>> Channel, there's books. I mean, so there's that stuff that you can take at your own pace. We have the healing program for >> the healing program. Okay.
>> For people who've been through these relationships which is an intensive experience where we have workshops and question answer sessions and a remarkably robust community. We have something called the Dr. Romney network which is weekly shows where we either have experts or just me answering people's questions. Um we have live we have live programs live retreats where people come together for a few days or even a week. You can find all of that on my on my website. So, lots of different >> And right there, guys, you could just click that barcode.
>> Oh, there's a barcode.
>> Just click the barcode.
>> He's a tech genius, everyone.
>> What's that?
>> Because you were also on Spiritually Hungry.
>> Oh, we have some good friends.
>> Yes, I was. Yeah. So, we had the opportunity to have some great conversations. So, you can find me lots of different places >> on any podcast you've ever seen, I've done an episode.
>> And um Yeah. So, >> any any final nugget that I didn't ask you? Anything that you just want to leave with the world?
>> Pay attention to when you when you find yourself self-abandoning just to be connected to another person. Love means you show up as a whole person. When you feel like the transaction is you have to quip yourself to be seen. I don't know if it's narcissism, but it's a really bad track and it's going to silence your voice and limit people to be seeing the light inside of you. So, I hate to say please stop, but at least catch yourself when you're doing that and such a natural way to attack. Yeah, she didn't say and I saw someone's comment. She didn't she to be fair, what he asked was how do people connect with you more. But I think this would be the perfect opportunity to go if you're dealing with these types of issues and you're dealing with these types of people and you are convinced in your heart that this is what you're experiencing, please seek out a mental health professional so that you can get some one-on-one um help because I'm just one person and can't do it all. and it's really great as a supplement to read my stuff and care about what I'm doing. But the real person to care about is you and you should meet with someone in your local area.
>> She didn't say that. She said, "Join my community where we do workshops."
Yikes.
Uh Laura, Laura, thank you so much.
Laura 3412.
Uh Laura says, "Agree with you, Kia. Dr. Romney's information isn't wrong, but self-help content is passive participation and healing. It isn't enough." Yes, I agree. And I got all the that the the big qualms with her. I got three. One, I think she's a narcissist herself. A one that is smart enough to know how to try to make it appear like she's not because she she dropped that her New York Times bestselling book, you know, how great it did on the list, but that she actually worked so so hard more than other people and other people couldn't get on the list. But she told it in a way where it's plausibly deniability that she actually cares about what you think about that, which to me it seems like she deeply cares. Plus the amount of episodes she goes on. Then her discernment on what types of podcast she goes on. She goes on podcasts where they're talking to medical medium, right? One day they're talking to the medical medium and then they're talking to a doctor. So I find that to be, you know, if you splatter yourself across the world, I just find it to be like, are you not doing any research? Do you have no ethics or standards for what types of I guess she hates boundaries, so I suppose. And then three, the topic is just so deep and I feel like she goes so vague that it becomes meaningless to anyone really needing to to do the help.
And also, I think she could push therapy more. Those are my four qualms. Um, and and like you said, p being a passive in the self-help, you know, space, if you're just a person who's doing okay and you're kind of like looking to level up or whatever that means to you, I think it's fine. You could probably listen to some self-help [ __ ] and you'll be better for it perhaps. But if you're those aren't the people who typically are looking for self-help and are in self-help. People in personal development are deeply wounded individuals who need help beyond what they are going to ever receive in in an event like this. In my humble opinion, and I have to say this, my eyebrow stays on. And also, >> I'm outside the cheesecake factory waiting for it to open.
>> And also humans.
>> And also, >> we're going to come and eat your children. and also this my favorite >> screenshot this glow up [ __ ] >> Thank you, Laura. All right, >> let's stop this event today.
>> You're amazing. Thank you for everything. Give it up for Dr. >> She's amazing, you guys. Okay, let's look at her website.
Your number one source of guidance about healing from narcissistic relationships.
Disclaimer, this information is for educational purpose only and not intended to be a substitute for clinical care. Please consult a healthcare provider for guidance specific to your case.
Agreed. At least she's got it there.
Okay, here's her thing. You can join her 2026 in-person retreats in New York, Croatia, and Massachusetts.
What a spread. Okay, she's got the Dr. Romany Network. Okay. Join the healing program. Okay. Uh therapists only.
What's that? in-person events, courses, books, free reading guide, join my newsletter website.
H okay. Do you need help navigating the narcissist in your life? Hi, it's Dr. Romney. Don't wait another day to get the help you need. You're not alone. We will do this together. Let's start now.
Okay, so she does have a podcast. Oh, look. She's talking to Gabby Bernstein.
Oh, what a trusted figure in the mental health space. Oh, who's next? Mel Robbins. Oh, what a trusted figure in the mental health space. Who?
Why? Okay, I guess you can be a spirit.
Gabby Bernstein believes that everything you do in your life and everything that happens to you is your fault and responsibility and she talks to spirit guides in her brain all the time. And she's a grifter in my opinion. Okay, Mel Robbins. You already know my opinion about Mel Robbins. Why is she going on these podcasts? Oh, Matthew Hussy.
Another one. He's fine. I guess he's like a dating love coach, but like why don't you talk to What does this have to do with nar because Okay, what is a dating coach and her going to talk about? Oh, and dates. There's You're going to find narcissists on dating apps.
Okay. Oh, One Tree Hill Star.
Okay.
Anyways, okay. New series for mental health professionals. If you work with clients affected by narcissistic or antagonistic relationships, you know how complex and often misunderstood these cases can be. Most clinicians were never trained for this. Therapists only was created to change that. After 20 years of clinical work, I built this series to give you the clarity, language, and strategies you didn't get in training.
This Well, why is it not in the training? I'm curious as to why you have special training that the schools don't.
This series is for mental health professionals at every stage who want clear, practical guidance with tools you can apply immediately in session. Okay, I guess that's good, I suppose.
Early access pricing.
Um, you can do $182 for the year or $19 per month.
That's actually pretty low, especially if you're a professional. Um, this is not meant to be supervision or formal consultation. No CE credits will be issued. So, this is just for your own knowledge if you're a therapist. And I'm assuming I could buy it. Anyone can buy it, so it seems, but it's meant to help therapists indoctrinate into her beliefs. Okay. Uh, let's see. The healing program. This is join the healing program. It's difficult to get help and support when you are in or out of a narcissistic relationship.
Many people don't have a place to get support, tools for healing, and to meet other survivors. This program is meant to be that safe space, a place to learn you are not alone, break the cycles of self-lame, and to explore your authentic self.
How much is this?
How much you think? I'm going to say I'm going to say $400.
Oh, yeah. About 400 for the year. Okay.
365. I was pretty close for the year.
And then $35 a month, which I would have would guess is a little bit more expensive, but I can't do the math. 35* 12.420.
Hey, smoke up. Uh, so 420 if you pay per month or 365 if you pay for the year. So that's all it's going to cost. I mean, to be fair, it's way cheaper than therapy, but you're also not actually going to be talking to anyone. You're just going to be listening to somebody talk about her thoughts. But here's the video.
Hi everyone, it's Dr. Romy and I want to share with you about my healing program for survivors of narcissistic relationships that not all of you may know about. This program is for people who have gone through all kinds of narcissistic relationships. It could be parents, it could be partners, it could be friends, workplace relationships, adult children, other family members.
This program started over three years ago and thousands and thousands of people have been through it. We have folks from all over the world. This program has grown and evolved so much and I am so proud of it. Now, we originally started it because of demand from this incredible community of survivors. People saying, "I need something and there's not a lot out there." Now, it's become something really unique. There's nothing quite like it. And it's very special. It's been one of the most inspirational >> just like the narcissist thinks of themselves. But not me, though.
>> And rewarding experiences of my career.
It reminded me that healing always happens in community because I know how alone you feel. I've been there. I know how isolating it is and I know it seems like there is no way anyone can understand what you're going through cuz a lot of people around you aren't and you feel so alone. And we are here in this program to change that. Every month in this program, I guide everyone through a new topic that's designed to help you in your healing from a narcissistic relationship. Really the crown jewel of this program is our community platform and we carefully moderate this community to which only healing community group members can join. So unlike social media communities which can be a little bit more unfettered >> and free.
>> This is a far safer space as you come out of the shadows. This program really is about finding your voice, validating your experience, starting to feel safe and understanding what these relationships are all about. If you're ready to start healing with the right support and with a wonderful and safe secure community, please join us. You deserve this and we will do the work together and heal together. I am absolutely inspired when I witness the healing I have seen from the people in this program. It's been absolutely >> So, she does once a month. I don't know if they're live or not. One one thing a month topics it seems like >> absolutely extraordinary. We have so many success stories.
member benefits.
>> You'll receive a one-hour virtual workshop taught by me, one-hour virtual question answer Q&A session with me, three journal, >> but I wonder if there's thousands of people in here, which I'm assuming so, you're going to get your question answered. I don't know. I guess it depends if you're lucky or not.
>> Prompts every week, one guided meditation each month. There are companion worksheets and we also offer a two-hour bonus refresher about the basics of narcissism and narcissistic relationships.
>> I also think there's a certain point where too much information starts to hurt you. It starts to go in your brain of like this is the only thing on your mind. You're filling up your mind only with narcissism talk. Like if you need a monthly module and more modules about narcissism, it's like it's too much.
It's like having too much information about your body. like, "Oh, I have to wear a glucose monitor now just to see what's going on." It's like, "Okay, you're becoming ill with too much information.
>> Please come join it. Check it out. See if it's for you. We'd love to have you."
>> She would love to have us. So nice.
Um, yeah. What's the in person? Okay.
The Omega Institute radical awareness as survival healing from invalidating and antagonistic relationships.
That is June 19th through the 21st for if you're a member of Omega, which I don't know what that is, but it's 355 or 445.
It's a retreat and you have to you have to apply. What's Omega?
I feel like we're going down a rabbit hole right now. It's just a cult. What's going on? There's little cabins. Oh, no.
About We are a cult.
We are not a cult.
>> Sorry. Um, okay. Just curious.
>> Do you think we'll figure out what this is by the end or no? Or it's going to be so vague. You're like, I don't know what this is. Okay. Omega.
We live in a time not only of global possibilities but also global challenges.
>> Yeah.
>> The need for hope and healing is urgent.
>> Okay.
>> The desire for connection and transformation is real.
>> Uh-huh.
>> Omega is prepared to meet this moment.
>> Okay.
>> Yesterday we were rooted in a few special places. Today we're leveraging technology to offer skills and wisdom to everyone everywhere.
So, it's a course program, course retreat company.
>> We're elevating voices, creative ideas, and innovative solutions from around the globe. And we're strengthening our commitments to sustainability, equality, and justice.
At Omega, we see a direct link between personal growth, and social change. Our curriculum helps people connect more deeply to themselves, others, and the world we share.
>> This is giving Nexium.
>> Anyone else?
>> There is no limit to the ripple effect we can create for those who wish to.
>> My Angelou is going to be teaching from the other side.
>> Step into the unknown, question the status quo, and think boldly. We share your hunger.
The world is moved by people willing to stand a step ahead from science.
>> She's she has passed away too >> to the arts from medicine.
>> So they have they recorded classes before their death >> spirituality. They breathe life into the human experience.
>> Yeah.
It's not easy to stand on the edge alone, but stand together and there is no more empowering place to be. Omega is a global community that awakens the best in the human spirit and cultivates the extraordinary potential that >> Uh-oh, they're on the grifter stage. Grow, inspire, stret >> exists in us all.
>> Thanks.
>> Join us.
>> Awakening the best in the human spirit.
Okay. Yeah. Um says it's a nonprofit donorup supported educational organization at the forefront of holistic studies located on the more than 250 acres in New York's beautiful Hudson Valley. Oh my god. Rachel Hollis lives there. What happened to dinosaurs?
Wait, what?
>> She can attend. Maybe that's maybe her and Kez are Omega Institute devotees.
Who? me man.
Teach, model, act. Holistic medicine and wellness. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. This has got Rachel Alice written all over it.
Relationships and family and changing times. Cross-pollination of world music, art, literature, and creativity. Aging with vitality and conscious end of life.
Integrative strategies for mental health. Acceleration of the natural foods movement. Uhoh. Raw milk lovers. I don't know. Maybe whole systems thinking and business practices, environmental innovation and regenerative design, women's empowerment, dialogue between science and spirituality, yoga, mindfulness, meditation, okay, and holistic whatever history.
our founder.
Who's the guy at the um Jonestown?
Jim Jones, our founder. Oh, sorry. Oops.
Oops. Oops. Oops. Uh, Omega began in 1977.
Okay.
by Eastern scholar Pier Valat Anat Khan, holistic medical doctor Steven Ralph Schoffen and educator Elizabeth. Okay, we're just going to search is Omega Institute a cult. Someone must have had this thought already.
The Omega Institute for Holistic Studies is not a cult. Founded in 1977 in Reinbeck, New York, it is one of the nation's premier educational retreat centers. It operates as a nonprofit.
Okay. But then the Trip Adviser says, "Review of Omega Institute, fraudulent practices." Okay.
And then it says, "These seven cults are located right here in the Hudson Valley."
I'm getting mixed messages here. Okay.
This one says, "Recently, I've been getting ads for those Shenyun plays financed by the Fuan Guang Gong who have a big compound in upstate New York. Has anyone dealt with cults? I have a knowledge on the subject. Here the here from what I can find here are the major cult of New York. The Omega Institute, Nexium, the 12 tribes, Chen Tao, Word of Life. Oops, sorry.
Okay.
And then someone says, "No, I don't know." Okay. Two mixed information. What's this one? Trip Adviser if for any circumstance Omega asks to keep a payment you've made as a credit just say no. I said yes in a gesture of good faith during co and well here's my story. I was at an annual Omega I was an annual Omega guest sometimes more than once a year since 2013. In early 2020 I booked a 5-day workshop plus an additional two-day stay for a total of seven nights in a private room. This came to about 2100. Then CO happened.
Amid all my distress and financial challenges, Omega asked whether they could hold my deposit and offered to add a credit to it, which I could apply to programs or stays at Omega. Okay, so this person's just upset about their money.
Okay, another people say truly magical place.
Okay, let me read this from WPDH.
Ah, I don't want I want to have my ads blocked. Okay. Omega says, "This retreat center has been written up in the New York Times and has even made the list of 10,000 places to see before you die. With its own sauna, wow, your own sauna, you don't say. Free Wi-Fi and luxurious accommodations. This place is more of a weekend getaway than a structured religious organization.
Classes are offered in new age religion, aroma therapy, kabala or cabala, astrology, and crystals. Promotion of these controversial beliefs seems to be the primary reason. Watchman Fellowship have added them to their list.
Okay, that's the only reason.
Interesting. And then it says, the Omega Institute for Holistic Studies issued the following statement in response to this article. I am writing to set the record straight. Omega Institute for Holistic Studies is not a religious cult. We are a secular, nonpartisan, nonprofit educational institution with a 40-year track record of being an economic pillar and environmental steward in the Hudson Valley. Each year, we see approximately 23,000 people come through our doors from all walks of life and with varied belief systems. People of all faiths and none at all come to Omega as a trusted source for lifelong learning and to study with thought leaders and social visionaries from across the country and around the world.
Our teachers have included Nobel laureates, worldrenowned economists and physicians, New York Times bestselling authors, that's Dr. Romney, Grammy award-winning musicians, Academy Award-winning actors, and prominent politicians. Okay. Well, every cult has that as well, too. Actually, our key initiatives lend critical support to veterans, nonprofits, educators, women leaders, and environmentalists. As a nonprofit organization, Omega has received a gold rating from Guidear for our commitment to transparency and accountability. Like, do you really need a nonprofit for crystal class, but okay, I guess do whatever you want. Um, Robert Skip Bachis. Okay, who's this guy? Let's see what he looks like.
Robert Skip Bacharas.
Okay, he's not beating the cult allegations.
It's cult leader allegations.
Uhoh. Holy [ __ ] Website.
Okay. Sorry. We're going down a rabbit hill. Rabbit rabbit hill. What am I saying? Rabbit hole.
Can poop save the world?
Finally, the answers we're waiting for.
The CEO of the Omega Institute in Ryback also manages the Omega Center for Sustainable Living, OCSL, an educational facility where people can connect to their environment and their wastewater.
The heart of the OCSL is the Eco Machine, a localized wastewater treatment plant that does not pollute waterways, is a net zero energy system, and reduces 95% of drug residue in the water. It does not. It does it thanks to a combination of constructed wetlands, irrigated lagoons, organisms from all kingdoms of life, and the sun.
I'm confused by this. It's a movie.
Okay, so he seems like a hippie. Maybe that's all it is. Am I the only hippie?
Who's that?
I'm out of my depth here.
Let's see.
Instagram will help me.
Oh, okay. So, this is the non the more nonprofit environmental part.
But what about the institute?
Oh, New York.
Here it is. Okay. A global hub for lifelong learning, spiritual exploration, and building a community of learners, thinkers, and doers. Awakening the best in the human spirit. Hey, you know what?
They all start this way though. That's the only thing because it's like, "Oh, what a wonderful thing. What a If you were to look up next to him 20 years ago, you'd be like, "Wow, this looks great."
Dan Harris, he's a a anchor.
This looks like a retreat center. Now why it's a nonprofit couldn't tell you but that's where she'll be. Dr. Romney will be there if you're interested. Roms >> the predicament that somebody comes to me >> isn't he controversial in some way is Omega. What were you like in the 90s?
Are you ready? Canoeing.
swings.
This is giving documentary footage.
Someone's going to put this all together and be like, everyone was thrilled to be here, but that was just on the surface.
The truth was much deeper. And they show the guy driving up in a Bentley.
>> Everyone, >> I've always since I was a little kid, you know, the one who was always >> Cheryl Straed. Okay. Anyways, that was a little uh side side thought.
Um, so it looks like, you know, it's the borderline.
Keep your wits about you when you go on campus. Make sure you're allowed to leave. But she's going to be there. And then she's also going to be an event at sea. You can get healed from narcissists on a boat in Croatia in September.
Uh, sign me up, Doc.
H we've really lost the plot again. Oh, the investment plan. It's not a It's not a cost. It's an investment plan. Um we invite you to exclusive luxury retreat aboard a five-star yacht featuring a rare and uniquely curated experience for 30 participants in 15 beautifully designed double and triple occupancy cabins. The cruise offers high quality amenities and meticulous details to ensure everyone feels welcome. Okay.
couples and partners/friend discount, $14,000 for two plus processing fees.
But you can also do a flexible monthly plan for $4,000. Why do I need to go to Croatia? I guess I don't have to. All this is optional. It's always important to remember that. But if you want, if you got an extra 14 grand for you and your narcissistic husband, um you can be told by Dr. Romney that you're both perfect for the low low price of $14,000. Um, 7 days, seven nights of onboard exclusive five-star yacht accommodations, daily educational programs, two wholesome meals, breakfast, and three course lunch, and a non-alcoholic beverage. You get dinner, maid service, jacuzzi, sauna, paddle board, sea bobs, internet, deck chairs, sunbathing non-included, airfare, travel insurance, spa services, dinners in town, laundry fees, optional activities, alcoholic beverages, gratitude for grat gratitude for spa services, I guess. Gratuiti. So, there you go. Oh, shoot. Okay, I have a phone call at nine o'clock, which is very weird, but I'm thinking about getting back into freelancing.
Heaven to earth.
Heaven to earth also sounds like a cult.
Children in conflict. Okay, we're going deep into the the self-help cruise industry. I would like to explore that further in the future. And this is the Kerpalu Retreat Center, Massachusetts.
How much is this one?
Navigating and healing from toxic workplaces.
Okay. So, she she's really busy. She loves being busy. She's got a full year of stuff plus everything else she does.
She doesn't want to have time to think.
I think that's what's going on. She's trying to escape her feelings of narcissism.
Anyways, thank you everybody.
Um, I do have to go, so I'm going to wrap it up. But this is my last week of painting class. So, I'm going to share my last um paintings next week. My final my final pieces.
And then you can you can judge you can judge away.
You can judge me, but you can't be me.
My paintings are the number one New York Times bestselling paintings. But I only got that because I worked harder than everyone else. And that makes me really humble.
See how I did that? You can do it, too.
Just try and believe. Okay. Uh, thank you everybody. Thank you. Appreciate it.
Appreciate it. Uh, I see your comments and I'll be back next week.
>> Back next week, baby.
>> Amen. I'm going to send you so much love and so much light and so much good energy today because I feel like you need it.
>> So true. Bye.
Okay, what are we going to listen to?
Country. Hell yeah.
Country music.
Wake up. Climb tree. Then go to another tree. Then climb that tree.
Starry nights. Exe. Climb that tree then go hunting.
Nicole Campbell.
I light the candle of my eye. That's you. A console.
You're making my life fonder and beyonder.
That's what you do.
Alaska blood tundra.
I got something funra to say. La pandas in the forest.
Lillian Massie, a wolf just jumped across the Atlantic. Those are silly things to say. Bravaore is your birthday in May.
Oh, baby. Hey, Revellet Fuentes.
I just saw the letters of my glasses.
They were foggy because I was crying.
And Hannah 7, I have to tell you about this fork that I got from the stork. He dropped it at my house. Olive Harper was there and you saw me in my underear. I was so embarrassed.
I loan. Why don't you call me on the phone anymore?
Bone palace ballet 94. Oh my [ __ ] that's not you. I meant to say, "Oh my lord, that's much more appropriate."
Gracie Charlie loves cats. Tell me how much you love cats. Farley Bird, do you love cats as well?
Meow. Meow. Meow. That's Tarot. That's Tarot.
She says Gracie loves cats. Yay. Yay.
Farley Bird. Yay. Yay. Yay. Okay.
Goodbye.
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