Catholic Priest Teaches Rabbi about Jesus

Hinzugefügt: 2026-05-13

[00:00:00]But at the same time, the Bible says that God is a person who has created us individually, who loves us personally, who guides us, and who draws us ultimately into his own life.

[00:00:16]>> I have a question, Rabbi. As you uh probably know, we're Christians. We come >> It's okay.

[00:00:26]A rabbi gets asked a really tough question from a group of Christians and I want to show you how he answers that question, but eventually we're going to get to Bishop Baron who I think gives a coherent and probably the best answer to it that I have seen. I am going to interact a little bit more with this clip along the way just because I think what the rabbi is saying is so wrong and I think that again it's nothing against him but I think that we all need to know why what he is saying because it's going to sound sophisticated. It's going to sound uh persuasive why it's actually wrong. So let's go ahead and look at what he had to say and then we will get to Bishop Baron. But the question is, since God is holy and we're not, how do we and since God cannot allow unholiness in his presence, how can we establish that relationship with him?

[00:01:26]>> Very good.

[00:01:27]>> Okay. So, pause. Before we see how he answers this question, let's answer it in a Christian way. So the Christian response to this question about the holiness of God, the unapproachableness of God because of his holiness in a Christian sense is Jesus. Jesus bridges the infinite gap between God's holiness and our sinfulness. Without Christ, we could not have a relationship with God.

[00:01:52]And that's important to see. This is a question about how we can be in proper relationship to God. So, you can see the Christian is trying to get this rabbi to basically provide an alternative to Jesus. But what you're going to see is that he evades the question. Let's go.

[00:02:09]>> Let's back up a little bit. Why don't we see God?

[00:02:14]Why don't we see him?

[00:02:17]>> Too holy to the whole. Uh if we had holy eyes, people argue if we had holy eyes, we could see his holiness.

[00:02:33]I don't want to see his holiness. I want to see him.

[00:02:38]Isn't that possible?

[00:02:39]>> Again, so let's think through this critically. Sorry to barge in again, but I think we need to understand this. Is it possible to distinguish between the holiness and the person of God? The rabbi says this. He says,"I don't want to see his holiness," referring to God.

[00:02:54]I want to see him. But that's a bit like saying, if you think about it, I don't want to see light or sun rays. I want to see the sun itself. Is that actually even possible? So, from a Christian perspective, God is not something behind his attributes or beyond his attributes.

[00:03:13]It's not like you can say his holiness and his person because this gets to the issue of divine simplicity. Um, in classical Christian theology, the idea of God's simplicity is that God is identical to his attributes. There's no distinction within him. So, what this rabbi is saying is completely antithetical to classical Christian orthodox theology. And I don't want you to miss that. But let's see how he continues to answer this question. But why don't I see him?

[00:03:47]>> Not even Moses or Abraham could see him.

[00:03:51]>> He was It was a burning bush. It was a He was put to sleep while he walked through the covenant. The Shikina walked through the covenant. So they as holy as they are written about in the Bible in the scriptures couldn't see him. So is it possible for us?

[00:04:11]>> But why?

[00:04:16]>> God is more real than this table. I can see the table. I can't see him.

[00:04:24]>> He wants us to have faith.

[00:04:26]>> H >> He wants us to have faith.

[00:04:28]>> Wants us >> to have faith in him.

[00:04:30]>> To have faith.

[00:04:31]>> Good.

[00:04:34]>> That sounds a little nasty.

[00:04:37]So, this rabbi is saying that faith is a nasty idea. I had to pause and think through that. And I couldn't believe that he was actually saying that because uh a rabbi obviously has studied the Tanakh, the entirety of the Old Testament scriptures. He should know the Torah pretty much back and forward at least in the time of Christ. The rabbis would have memorized the Torah. And of course, Christ did memorize the Torah.

[00:05:00]But what was so interesting is I immediately thought of Genesis 15, which Paul uses in Romans to talk about faith, right? That the just shall live by faith. They will be counted righteous by faith. Uh that's Paul's language in the beginning of Romans. And of course, he gets that from Genesis 15 where it literally says, this is like the first few chapters of the Torah, y'all. He literally says that um Moses writing says that Abraham was believed in God.

[00:05:27]Abraham believed in God and it was counted to him as righteousness. In other words, Abraham believed, had faith, trusted in God for what? The thing that he did not have yet, the promised son Isaac, right? And if you go to Hebrews, which of course I know is in the New Testament, but in Hebrews, it was written to Hebrews at chapter 11, it talks about and basically goes through the entire Old Testament cannon and says, "By faith, Noah, by faith, Abraham, by faith, by faith, by faith, by faith." And that was written to a Hebraic audience. And so faith is not a nasty term in Judaism. It's like the foundational term. And I just found it so fascinating that this rabbi would think of faith uh as a nasty idea. You know what I mean? All right, let's continue.

[00:06:11]>> So God revealed himself completely in the Torah.

[00:06:17]>> The Torah is not a book of warnings.

[00:06:21]Oh, you do this, you're dead. You do that, you're dead. That's not what And by the way, what does dead mean anyway?

[00:06:32]It means our relationship is over.

[00:06:36]You can live for another 80 years, but our relationship is finished. That's called dead.

[00:06:45]And that happens very rarely where God literally severs the relationship because he needs us more than we need him.

[00:06:57]>> That is the second time I've seen this rabbi say that God needs us more than we need him. And again, I think this is a complete misunderstanding of who God is in his very nature, especially from a Christian standpoint. The way that he's talking doesn't even make sense to me because God is love. And what is love but self-giving no receiving right? He gives himself away. He has a say he has self-existence. Meaning he doesn't need anything uh he doesn't depend on anything for his existence. Right? But it also follows in a relational sense that he doesn't depend on human beings either. So it's actually the complete opposite in a Christian understanding.

[00:07:36]God doesn't need us, but he gives himself and the and those who actually need God infinitely is us. So I don't know even from a Hebraic understanding how he could get to this idea that God needs uh the covenanted people of Israel more so that he uh that God needs him more than uh he needs God. That is like the most insane position uh I could actually think of. Now let's get back to the original question. The question that these Christians are asking him is, God is holy, therefore we can't approach him, right? If God is holy and we can't approach him, how can we be in right relationship to him? And what this rabbi seems to be saying is that God has perfectly made himself known in the Torah, which I actually would agree with that. I actually well, I would agree with it with some caveats because I think that Jesus is the word. Jesus is the logos. So Jesus in time, space, and history actually perfectly reveals the Torah because he is the embodiment of it completely perfectly without um there's no distinction between it. But the problem is is that if you don't look to Christ, you're not actually understanding the Torah. So if God has truly revealed himself in the Torah and you don't see Jesus Christ, you're actually not understanding the Torah.

[00:08:52]And that's why Paul um says things like there is a veil over the face of those who read the Old Testament scriptures and they don't perceive Christ because Christ is the Torah. Do you get what I'm saying? Let's get to Bishop Baron and then we will conclude.

[00:09:05]>> But at the same time, the Bible says that God is a person who has created us individually, who loves us personally, who guides us and who draws us ultimately into his own life.

[00:09:23]Not find that in Plato. You will not find that in Platinus. You will not find that in Emerson or Schlimmacher or the New Age.

[00:09:31]Keep pressing it. The Bible then speaks of this personal God who pitches his tent among us. That's St. John's beautiful language that the word became flesh and dwelt, we say. But the Hebrew or the Greek has uh the sense of pitching his tent among us.

[00:09:51]God becomes one of us in such a remarkable fashion that in Jesus he says, "I no longer call you slaves but friends." Now see, I mean, let that sink in. the peculiarity of biblical Christianity. The peculiarity of biblical Christianity that God, the high God, the creator of heaven and earth, the the inscrable, uncontrollable, ineffable, transcendent mystery of God, calls us friends so that we can respond to him as thou. See, there's a world of difference. And in fact, Christianity turns those other mysticisms on their on their head.

[00:10:38]>> So to conclude, I just want to using what Bishop Baron is saying, answer the question uh uh of the rabbi. He says, why can I see this table, but I can't see God? God is more real than this table yet I can't see him. And the answer I think is I actually have seen God in a similar fashion in the same way that I can see this table. I can personally know him intimately. It's what theologians, Christian theologians refer to as the census divinitatus, the divine sense. And it's my name's Thomas.

[00:11:13]So this story always resonates with me.

[00:11:16]But Thomas is doubting. He's not having faith. And he says, "Unless I see um the marks in his hands, the the the spear wound in his side, I will not believe."

[00:11:25]And of course, he touches and he says, "My savior, my Lord, my God." Right? And I think that what we have in the Eucharist, what we have in the Christian faith is a very real tangible experience of God in Christ that is equal to that of me touching and knocking on this table right now. So, it's really interesting because he wants to say you can know God in the Torah, but you can't actually see him. And I would want to say no, you can actually know God in Christ who is the embodiment of the Torah. And that's the most real thing that could ever happen to you. But again, the question was relationship.

[00:12:02]How are we in right relationship with God? And he can't, this rabbi can't actually give an answer other than say embody and buy the Torah, put it on your your forehead, etc. And you can begin to see why the New Testament answers these questions in the way that he does.

[00:12:16]specifically the majority of it is answering questions that a person like this rabbi would have and the answer is Jesus. Jesus is the Torah. He is the one that bridges the infinite gap of holiness uh and our sinfulness. And it's so important that we see that Jesus is the fulfillment of Judaism, I guess, is what you need to see. And until you believe in Jesus, your Judaism and this rabbis way of thinking about the world will never make sense.