Strengthening our continuing competence requirements

本站添加: 2026-05-14

[00:00:00]Hello everybody and welcome to today's webinar. Thank you for joining us. I'm Maxine Moore. I'm head of education and training at the SRRA and I'm going to be chairing the session today and I'm joined by my colleague Richard Williams who is a policy manager at the SRA.

[00:00:19]So in today's session, we will be looking in detail at the proposals in the SRA's recently published continuation uh consultation on continuing competence.

[00:00:31]Just want to say thanks to everyone who has submitted questions in advance. We do have those. But if you think of questions as we go through the webinar, then you can also submit those questions live by clicking on the link below this video.

[00:00:46]You can include your name if you choose to, but you do also have the option to ask the questions anonymous. That's entirely up to you. Obviously, we'll try and answer as many questions as we can as we go through the webinar, but the number that we're able to answer will obviously depend on how much time we have. If we don't get through them all, I would like to reassure you that we will still look at them uh and we will consider them as part of our consultation process. So please do send your questions in.

[00:01:18]A video of this webinar as usual with these webinars will be available um to watch again and the slides um and links to relevant uh resources will also be available on our on demand page and the link to this is is below this video.

[00:01:35]Please if you um think it's appropriate feel free to share those links with any colleagues that you think might be interested.

[00:01:44]So um enough from me by way of introduction. I know you really want to hear uh about the consultation. So I'm going to hand over to Richard. So Richard, let's start with the SR's current continuing competence requirements. Can you tell us quickly um what the current requirements are and how a solicitor can meet them?

[00:02:05]>> Yeah, absolutely Maxine. So our code of conduct for solicitors requires them to maintain their competence and that requirement applies to solicitors who have a practicing certificate.

[00:02:16]Solicitors who are exempt from holding a practicing certificate under section 88 of the solicitors act 1974.

[00:02:24]Solicitors practicing overseas but their practice predominantly relates to England and Wales as set out in our overseas and crossber rules and registered European foreign or Swiss lawyers. So what this requirement in the code means is that a solister must keep their knowledge, skills and understanding of their legal, ethical and regulatory obligations up to date and to make sure that anyone that they manage is competent to to do their role.

[00:02:51]We don't prescribe exactly how a solicitor should meet that requirement.

[00:02:56]What we do do is publish um and outline in good practice resources that we expect solicitors to regularly reflect taking account of changes in law, client expectations and technology, identify and address any learning and development needs. We also expect them to consider their ethical and professional obligations, including any relevant warning notices or guidance that we might issue. We also suggest that a solicitor should record how they've approached meeting the requirement to maintain their competence, although it's not a regulate requirement that they keep a record of doing so.

[00:03:38]>> Thanks, Richard. So, so that's a fairly um established approach, I would say.

[00:03:44]So, why are we proposing changes to it?

[00:03:48]Yeah, we we've been monitoring if and how solicitors are meeting that obligation now for for quite some time.

[00:03:55]And what that monitoring shows is that whilst most solicitors take steps to keep their knowledge and skills and professional obligations up to date, um that is not consistent across the profession. We know that in very a very small number of cases when we've engaged with solicitors to ask them how they've met the requirement to maintain their competence, they could couldn't demonstrate that they'd carried out any learning and development at all. In other cases, there is there is no explanation as to why a solicitor has carried out any learning and development or how the learning and development they carried out was uh the need was identified. Where learning and development is carried out, there is often a focus on maintaining technical legal knowledge with ethics receiving less attention than perhaps it should do. And we also know through our monitoring that there is a there's a limited awareness of our warning notices and guidance and subsequent I suppose incorporation of those warning notices and guidance into a how a solicitor approaches their learning and de development. So that kind of provides a a rationale for why we want to strengthen our approach. We want to clarify our expectations.

[00:05:12]We want to drive positive learning and development behaviors. We want to strengthen a culture of ethical reflection and decision making and we as a regulator want to obtain greater assurance that all solicitors are maintaining their competence.

[00:05:30]Thanks Richard. So we will go into more detail about the proposals in the consultation um shortly but um just to start off with can you just give us a quick summary of the uh the key consultation proposals?

[00:05:44]>> Absolutely. So there's three key proposals in the consultation document.

[00:05:47]The first consultation proposal is that we introduce a rule that requires solicitors to record their learning and development needs and how they identified and addressed these. The second consultation proposal is that solicitors we will require solicitors to participate annually in mandatory ethics discussions. And the third consultation proposal is that we're um suggesting we introduce a rule that enables us to um direct learning and development at summaral solicitors where we identify a competence concern or a concern in how competence is maintained. There is another um not necessarily a proposal but we're also seeking views um from stakeholders on whether we should introduce any additional requirements to make sure that aspiring solicitors have a much better understanding um of of ethics and ethical practice before admission.

[00:06:47]>> Okay, thanks uh Richard. So let's turn then to the detail of each of the proposals. Can you start off by just explaining the proposals relating to recording of learning and development?

[00:07:01]>> Yeah, absolutely. Now we know a lot of solicitors already record their learning and development. But I think the kind of overarching driver here is that we want any learning and development carried out by a solicitor to be meaningful and for solicitors to actually regularly consider all aspects of their role in the work to identify any additional learning and development de. So we intend to drive this behavior by requiring solicitors through a rule to record this process. So this includes recording that they've considered all aspects of their role when looking at identifying learning development needs, explaining how learning explaining how they identified learning and development needs, set out what those needs were and how they addressed them. We're also asking uh solicitors to state that if they think that no learning and development needs uh are applicable to them or they haven't identified any learning and development needs, why they've reached this conclusion. So linked to this will also strengthen the current declaration that solicitors make when renewing their practicing certificate. So this is really about not prescribing exactly what the learning and development a solicitor needs to carry out but it's about hardwiring and encouraging reflection, accountability and assurance that solicitors are really uh regularly thinking about what it is they need to uh do their work competently.

[00:08:34]So I know that many solicitors, firms, um employers already have systems to record their learning and development and and I'm sure we've got many on the session today who are thinking well can I continue to use these existing systems or am I going to have to change them?

[00:08:55]>> Absolutely. We we recognize that um lots of solicitors and lots of firms and lots of organizations that employ solicitors will already have established systems.

[00:09:04]So um we're conscious that we don't want to disrupt those too much. But what we are suggesting is that there will now be specific items that we will expect to see in a solicitor's learning and development record and I've mentioned those on the on the previous question.

[00:09:20]So whilst those existing systems can be used, there might be some changes required in order for uh those systems or approaches to capture the information that we're requiring.

[00:09:35]>> Okay, thanks Richard. And what about firms and employers who don't currently have um systems to record learning and development? Is it going to be costly for these people if they have to start doing it? Um, I don't think necessarily it needs to be costly. Um, we know that there are often useful and free tools offered by lots of third parties such as the law society, for example. They've got a continuing professional development diary. So, these these could be used um by by individuals who need an inexpensive and quick way to record their learning and development. and we will also provide an optional template that clearly meets our requirements that individuals can use to record their learning and development. So, you know, there'll be some free options for people to use if necessary.

[00:10:29]>> Thanks, Richard. I'm sure um people will find that really helpful to know. Uh, and I'm sure another question that people will be thinking about is um if it's a requirement to record learning and development, is the SRA going to carry out checks on learning and development records?

[00:10:48]I think I'm kind of short the answer to that is yes. Um, but that is really no different from what happens now. We already review learning and development records to assess how how solicitors are maintaining their their competence. So um over the last few years we've called over a thousand um learning development records in from solicitors um to obtain asurances that they are maintaining their competence. So we also look at whether or not a solicitor has taken steps to maintain their competence as part of any assessment or investigation of any competence reports we may receive. And we'll also ask listers to make a regulatory declaration to us when they renew their practicing certificate that they are maintaining their competence. So you know we do have lots of checks and balances in play at the moment and if we if we implement these proposals we'll continue with these checks and our expectation is that they we would expect compliance with the the requirements that we're asking.

[00:11:55]>> Thanks Richard. Uh let's move on then to the proposals that solicitors must participate in mandatory ethics discussions on an annual basis. So this is this is something that's entirely new in the proposals, Richard. So I'm sure people are really interested in this.

[00:12:11]Can you give us a little bit more detail about why we're proposing this?

[00:12:17]>> Yeah, I I think it's for a combination of reasons actually. So firstly, and I think it goes without saying and I suspect nearly everybody on on who's watching this will will agree that solisters must always act ethically. You know, this is absolutely core and central to the profession and and upholding public trust and and the way we regulate at the moment through our kind of codes and principle provides a really strong foundation for making sure that happens.

[00:12:46]But in many situations um what is considered to be acting ethical um is often unambiguous. You know solicitors mustn't lie to their clients. They must lead mustn't lead a court or steal clients money. But there are there are some scenarios that happen in practice whereby a more nuanced ethical judgments required. It's not clear. You know it's not black and white. there are kind of issues uh in conflict and intention. Um and sometimes the principles of what it of ethical expectations do come in does come into conflict. And our view is that actually acting ethically just goes beyond knowing what the rules say and require to actually recognizing these ethical issues and and identifying these conflicts and managing those those conflicts between between duties and expectations.

[00:13:49]I think there's, you know, I'm sure people are aware that there's there's been some very well doumented cases raising concern about lawyers ethical conduct. the legal services board. Um, their research into kind of ethics and ethical practice suggests that there's often a lack of understanding about how these ethical duties work in practice, how to balance them when they conflict and also that lawyers feel unsupported or um empowered to stick to their ethical duties when under pressure from clients or commercial demands. And then I think finally what we have seen through our ongoing monitoring is that while solicitors most solicitors are doing learning and development you know the the focus tends to be on just maintaining technical le legal practice and very few really focus their learning and development on I suppose kind of ethics and their professional obligations. So our proposal is really kind of grounded in addressing those addressing those challenges. We want to build a culture, a learning and development culture where solicitors are regularly thinking about and talking about ethics. They feel supported to apply um ethics beyond the rules and have more confidence in handling ethical decisions even in unfamiliar situations. So that's why we're proposing a new rule that would require solicitors to take part in at least three hours of facilitated ethical group discussions that cover ethical dilemmas and duties every year and for solicitors to confirm when they renew their practicing certificate. they have done this um on a wider point around ethics and we're also interested in hearing stakeholder views on ethics and wider challenges solicitors face in practicing ethically and you can find more details of what that work is involved and hope people can get engaged on our website.

[00:15:48]Thanks Richard. So just to be clear that that wiser work that you're talking about um and the feedback that we're seeking there that's not through the continuing competence consultation is it that's a separate piece of work.

[00:16:00]>> Absolutely. It's through a separate piece of work and if you look at our website um you'll be able to find details of of how you can um sign up to any some of the events that are happening and how you can contribute.

[00:16:12]>> Great. Thanks very much um Richard. So we do quite often hear, don't we? I know I do when when I'm out and about that people say why don't we require solicitors to complete a mandatory online um training course in ethics. Um why isn't that part of our proposals?

[00:16:30]>> Yeah and I think I think you think absolutely right. I mean that was an option that that we considered and in some ways I think it's fair to say it would be a simple requirement to to to prescribe for us and for solicitors to meet. But I think what we're trying to achieve here is is really about creating the conditions for ethical behavior by enabling solicitors to discuss ethical issues, dilemmas, recent cases with peers or other other colleagues and to support solicitors to think really beyond the application of the rules or professional conduct. It's really about kind of hearing challenging stress testing different views because as I said earlier not every single ethical issue that presents itself is is black and white. There's different views and different ways of of dealing with it. So our view is that that's more important um as an objective and and as I suppose a kind of an approach of learning and development than simply requiring solicitors to learn the rules about ethics and then assess their knowledge through taking an online kind of module or or or a test essentially and again lots of what I've just said is backed up by by research. You know research suggests that learning through group discussion particularly in the context of ethics can lead to better decision making increased confidence and a willingness for people to act in difficult situations.

[00:18:09]So, and that's partly the reason why we're sort of suggesting that the sessions are a minimum of three hours because we want to give people space and time um to have those discussions um have those facilitated ethics discussions. So, um just in terms of the proposal, we are saying it's three hours, but it doesn't have to be in a single three-hour block. And we're really keen actually to hear views on whether, you know, people think three hours is enough. Is it not enough? And some of the challenges perhaps that might well be um associated with with meeting that proposal.

[00:18:47]Richard, so just thinking about how these mandatory ethics sessions will work in practice. I'm sure that people are trying to envisage what a session might actually involve. Can you just paint a bit of a picture for people about what this might look like?

[00:19:04]>> Yeah, no, no problems, Maxine. So I think our starting point is we want to try and retain as much flexibility as possible in how um organizations and solicitors can can meet this requirement because I think there is a real value in them tailoring these kind of ethical issues and dilemas to situations that are relevant to them perhaps as as an organization but also their practice area. So I think for that reason we've tended to to we're suggesting we don't prescribe a onesizefits-all approach.

[00:19:36]You know you know every solicitor has to discuss these ethical dis discussions but I think it's absolutely key for us in achieving that objective is that we make sure that there's meaningful engagement here um in these discussions.

[00:19:52]So we've created or proposing a broad framework um which we think helps do that. So if I cover sort of kind of the ingredients of that framework hopefully it will give a sense of what a session involves. So we expect a session to be facilitated by a solicitor who has a current practicing certificate or who's on the role and has practiced as a solicitor for at least three years and has no regulatory or disciplinary record with us. And the reason for that is that you know at least someone who's facilitating would have an understanding of what our regulatory expectations are requirements are in in relation to ethics. We want to make sure that the secessions are facilitated um in in in a way that gives everyone an opportunity to really engage. You know we we want this to be an active exercise. We want people to to to be engaged to discussing sharing their views and thoughts. So we're suggesting as I proposed in the consultation that we put almost a cap on the number of participants to allow that to happen and what we're suggesting is that you know that number we think is a is about 12 but that number can include uh non-solicitor staff and other legal professionals that might be working with a within a particular organization. We want these sessions to focus on real ethical dilemmas or or hypothetical cases that cover um the application of the code of conduct and principles, the importance of ethical practice. We want the ethical dilemmas to to to focus on how um solicitors can build confidence in ethical decision making especially where these duties come into conflict.

[00:21:34]We want these sessions to have a focus on also promoting um and understanding the importance of of working culture uh working cultural environment and and how that supports ethical decision making. And we also think there's a value in these ethical dilemmas sort of focusing on um helping to increase understanding about the wider pressures that affect ethical behavior such as kind of personal difficulties an individual might be facing or or or mental health.

[00:22:06]>> Great. Thanks very much Richard. And just before I move on to the next question, just want to say we have got had a few questions in. Um I am seeing them coming in. I'm just going to continue with a couple more questions to Richard and then we'll um then we'll take some of the questions that have come in from people. So um just wanted to reassure you that we are we are receiving them and we will um we will answer them. Um let's just talk about these mandatory ethics sessions just a little bit more ri um how how would they be delivered? Do they need to be face to face or can they be online?

[00:22:39]>> So again we're not going to prescribe ex you know a formula here. I think our view is that again you can have these these facilitated discussions and this engagement and this discussion um face to face um or or it can al also be achieved through um through through through being online. Um I think the key thing the key thing here is really that you know we want this active discussion around a scenario and for people to think through and maybe challenge how how they or others might well respond.

[00:23:12]So I think you know it's probably you know if we implement this you know organizations firms this and give some thought to how it's going to work best best for them in terms of whether it's perhaps online or face to face.

[00:23:26]>> Thanks Richard.

[00:23:28]So one of the requirements from the discussions is that they have to be facilitated by a solicitor with a current practicing certificate or who is on the role. Can you just explain a little bit more about what are the facilitators expected to do? Um, and I'm sure some solicitors listening to this will not have had experience of these types of sessions or facilitating before. So, would there be any support available for facilitators?

[00:23:56]>> Yeah. Um, I I'll start with the obviously the first half of the question first. So I mean what we're asking this to do what one of their primary roles will be to think about what needs to be discussed. What is the ethical um issue or topic for discussion? It's about I suppose kind of introducing and framing the discussion and it's about really making sure that there are opportunities for everybody um to be to be part of that discussion and encouraging everyone to be part of that that discussion. Uh I suppose there's some kind of administrative um requirements that we we we we're thinking about or proposing placing on facilitators that we would ask them for keeping attendance records and confirming whether or not a particular solicitor did engage if if we ever need to ever need to ask that question.

[00:24:50]And look, you know, you've mentioned it already. I think it's fair to say that, you know, we recognize that not everyone will feel confident about leading these discussions and facilitating discussions if we implement this this proposal.

[00:25:06]And what we're going to do is is is provide some kind of clear resources and material to support um facilitators to do this. So this includes offering kind of a bank of materials. Um and that bank of materials will include kind of ethical scenarios that could be used as a basis for the ethical discussions. Um these will draw on kind of real life ethical scenarios um um that that we've encountered through our professional ethics team. We'll also develop kind of resources to help um facilitators ensure that they are um equipped to engage individuals and ensure this active participation. So all of that will be in place and we will be available um prior to um us implementing this proposal um if we if we do so.

[00:26:02]>> That's great. Thanks very much, Richard.

[00:26:05]Let's just talk now about sole practitioners um and solicitors in in smaller firms and also in-house solicitors who might not have have access to other solicitors to join them in the discussion. So, how would they be able to meet these requirements?

[00:26:24]>> Yeah, it it it's something that we thought long and hard about in terms of how we've developed the the consult consultation proposal. I think how we intend to kind of address that situation is is by allowing these facilitated uh discussions to be to be run by a wide range of organizations. So, so you know we're talking about perhaps local law societies, we're talking about commercial training providers or wider membership groups. So we wouldn't seek to authorize or validate these these providers to ensure that you know we don't put any unnecessary uh hurdles in the way that might prevent them from from doing so. Um so I think there will be opportunities for individuals perhaps who find themselves in a particular situation where they don't have access to you know essentially 12 or 11 other other solicitors to to kind of engage with with with groups or sessions that might be delivered um more more widely and and as as I said they don't necessarily have to be face to face either they can be online so that hopefully makes it easier for individuals in these cir the circumstances that you've mentioned to to to access and participate and meet the requirement. But again, you know, this is a consultation. We we want to want to welcome views on some of the practical challenges that that individuals might well face.

[00:27:55]>> Absolutely. Thanks, Richard. Let's just pause there um as we're talking about smaller firms in particular. We'll just go to a couple of our questions. So, one of the questions that we had and it was in the context of the requirement around training records, Richard was um what sort of pressure might that new requirement bring on smaller practices and and and you talked already a little bit about the sort of resources that are already available for for smaller practices and and firms that don't already um have systems in place. Can you just expand on that a little bit more?

[00:28:27]Yeah, I think you know what we're what we're not suggesting is that to meet this if there's an organization that that currently um doesn't have a a system or approach to recording the learning and development of sol of solicitors then you know we're not suggesting that that an organization has to go out and spend a significant amount of money of developing one or buying a package off the shelf that would do it for them for them. You know, as I said, there are lots of ways you can meet our requirement that don't require lots of money to spend. As I said, we will provide a template for solicitors to use to capture their learning and development. So, actually, you know, it would just be a matter of getting your your your solicitors, your organization to use to use that that template and and that would be, you know, a a cost a costfree option. Um, you know, but that being said, if you do have systems that you you might want, you know, you might want to start thinking about whether or not any changes will be required to those systems to sort of to to meet those requirements.

[00:29:39]>> Thanks, Richard. And we've also had a question about uh the possible EDI impacts of this change on those protected characteristics. Um, so how will we monitor that? How will we evidence that?

[00:29:53]>> Yeah. So alongside the consultation, we've we've published a regulatory and equality and diversity impact assessment. So, you know, we we we've thought through some of the potential EDI impacts of our work. um you know particularly through the lens of participating in in in the facilitated discussions because we we kind of recognize that actually that there will be certain challenges for certain individuals from certain particular backgrounds participating in those and again we've tried to to hardwire um mitigations against those as part of our proposal. So you know again as part of the guide part of the guidance to facilitators we'll have a section on there really around you know how you can ensure that sessions are set up perhaps for individuals um who who who come from a neurody divergent background.

[00:30:52]>> Thanks very much Richard and um just looking again here at the question. So we've also had a question about the annual declaration process. Um so obviously at the moment some firms do make that declaration on behalf of the individuals in their firms and so we're being asked is there any plans to change that under this new proposal?

[00:31:17]>> No, we're not s suggesting any changes to to that. I mean it, you know, at the moment lots of organizations make the declaration um on behalf of their solicitors um and in doing so we know that they will have assured themselves that those solicitors are meeting our requirements. So, you know, we intend for that to to to continue going going forward. You know, I think that's the that's the key point.

[00:31:49]You know, whilst you know, firms can continue to do it, it's important they are checking um that their you know, their solicitors are doing the things that they're expected to do.

[00:32:03]>> Thanks, Richard. And we've had a couple of questions which I think you probably already covered Richard, but I'll just um we'll just go back over them in case there's anything you want to say. Um so somebody's asking whether course whether materials will be made available by the um the SRA and also whether we can have case studies and examples of questions that we get at the SRRA about ethical issues.

[00:32:28]Yeah, it's it's it's it good question and I think I suppose kind of what this might sort of be what this might might really kind of highlight I suppose is is when if we're when will people have the things or the resources and the guidance required to help them begin preparing for for implementation. I think I'm going to partly add to that by saying when we think implementation might be and then we can work kind of backwards from it. So if we if we if we go ahead with these proposals and they will be subject to legal services board approval, we intend for them to take effect from the beginning of the 2728 practicing year.

[00:33:11]Um so we would hopefully have LSB approval hopefully by the end of this year if not the very beginning. So we will give as much or at least an appropriate amount of time for for organizations to prepare and it be at that point when we've obtain legal services board approval that we can begin sharing a lot of this information um with with the profession to help them really start to kind of understand and prepare themselves.

[00:33:43]>> Thanks Richard. I'm just going to take one final question which I think will be a fairly quick question. Somebody's asking will the ethics training rules apply to registered foreign lawyers and registered European lawyers as well as solicitors?

[00:33:57]>> I mean I think the answer to that lies very much you know if if you're covered by the obligation in the code of conduct to maintain competence then then you are going to be subject to to to that rule as well.

[00:34:10]>> Thanks Richard. So just want to say we are getting a lot of questions in. Uh I think it's unlikely we're going to be able to answer all of them. We will um try and come back to them at the end to see if we can answer some more. But as I say, please don't be deterred. If we don't answer them, um we are still interested in in what you've got to say about these proposals. So do keep those questions coming in. Um let's just move on then, Richard, to the um the third proposal in the consultation, which we haven't covered yet in in any detail. So this proposal will require um will allow us to require some or all solicitors if we think it's appropriate to undertake specific learning and development. So can you just explain what you know what do we what do we mean by this and could you maybe give us an example of of what that might look like?

[00:34:58]>> Yeah and and hopefully the example um I give will to bring it to life a little bit more. So, so the rationale behind the proposal is is about giving us the ability to take clearer targeted remedial or preventative action where we see a risk a risk that might be kind of competence related. So, you know, a completely madeup example. So if there are if there are engagement and our data analysis, we see a particular a trend or a particular um uh issue or a series of risks that could or have led to client harm because of solicitors in a particular practice area not having the necessary um skills to work with say let's say vulnerable clients. Then we could use this rule in response. So for example, we might then require solicitors who work in all solicitors who work in that practice area where we're seeing the risk or the issue to complete relevant learning and development. Now depending on the issue, we could either allow solicitors to determine how they meet that requirement. You know, we could be flexible and say, "We don't really mind how you go about addressing it, but we'd like you to ensure that you've undertaken some vulner vulnerable client training." Or we might describe the specific learning and development we see. So, we might say we want you to do this course or we might actually develop a course or develop some material um ourselves that we would expect solicitors to to to read to read and use. So we would then give solicitors a period of time to to do that, a reasonable um and appropriate period of time um to to confirm the learning and development that we've required. And we would expect solicitors to confirm that they've done it to us. Um and clearly if you if a solicitor hadn't done that within the time frame or hadn't done it at all, that could lead to um enforcement action.

[00:37:12]Thanks, Richard. And and when you think um you know, you're thinking, oh, it might be appropriate to use this this rule um at this point, what sort of steps might you take to make sure that it was the right thing to do in those circumstances?

[00:37:25]>> Yeah, I think it's important we stress that. I suppose our view is that this just we're not going to use this rule arbitrarily. you know it there will be I suppose some kind of guard rails and a framework around how we consider whether or not we deploy deploy this this rule or not. So for example, we'll need to be really um conscious and alive to any particular cost or re resource impact on solicitors or you know we need to be also understand the availability of of the training provision that we might be saying um addresses the problem that we've identified. So you know we will take a number of steps and jump a number of hurdles to get there. So that will include publishing a regulatory and equality impact assessment outlining our thinking outlining how we've considered some of the risks and issues. It will also we'll also publish a clear evidence based rationale for why we are suggesting we need to deploy this rule and we'll also have to clearly explain why we think our proposed um intervention under this rule addresses the problem that we've identified.

[00:38:48]So there will be those kind of hoops and checks and balances that we'll have to satisfy ourselves. um in in order for us to consider deploying a rule against some rule solicitors.

[00:39:02]>> That's great. Thanks, Richard. I'm sure people will be reassured by that. Um so, you've given us quite a lot of detail about the consultation proposals and I know we want to encourage as many people as possible to respond to the consultation. So, where can people find the consultation document and how can they respond?

[00:39:20]Yeah, there's um the consultation documents on on our website at the moment. It's in the about us consultation discussion section. Um as I said at the beginning, look, you know, these are proposals. We are really keen to hear um as many views from as many stakeholders as possible as to to to to our thinking. Um we're also holding um three roundtable sessions that are predominantly focused at small, medium, and in-house solicitors. Um the links to sign up to these roundts will be um in the video below this on YouTube and in the email that is sent to you after this webinar. So if you are interested, please feel uh free to sign it up. I suppose I should add that you know there there is a cap on the number of of people that can attend those those roundts but it's just another opportunity um to share your views wi with us about our proposals >> and then the consultation closes on 15th of July. What when can people expect to to hear more about it? Yeah, I think I sort of outlined our next steps and thinking in one of the other questions, but I think it wouldn't hurt just to to reiterate it again. So, the consultation finishes on the 15th of July. So, you know, there's still plenty of time to to to have a think about how you might want to respond. We've then got to carefully consider um consultation responses and and how what people have said impacts on our policy proposals. Um we intend to publish um our kind of postconultation policy position later this year with a view then to requesting approval of the rules from the legal services board towards the back end of the year with a view for hopefully getting approval for that either the very back end of this year or very early next year. And as I said, we're looking for these rules to come into effect at the start of the 2728 practicing year, which would mean when you when you think about that in the context of the the declaration, whilst the rules sort of come into effect beginning of that year, the first time someone will make a declaration against the new rules uh will be at the 28 practicing certificate renewal.

[00:41:56]>> That's great. Thanks very much uh Richard. Let's we've only got a few minutes left. Let's just go to just another couple of questions. So um one question is that we have suggested that the ethics discussions should um uh should only have a maximum of 12 participants in the discussions. Why why are we suggesting that? Yeah, I think it if we go back to sort of why we want to what we want to achieve and that is very much about creating kind of a space for people to uh engage, consider, listen, challenge views around what are quite often not clear ethical dilemas and and issues.

[00:42:45]I think our our thinking is that you make those groups too big and there is a danger that that could be undermined um and you make it look too small um and again you know maybe you're not achieving the out outcomes that we want to see. So um you know we we we we felt that sort of 12 um was was a was a was a good number that would would balance I suppose the need for firms to organize themselves in a way to meet the requirement but also ensure that you know there is a there's good space there's this there's space for people to to have these uh discussions and consider these ethical dile dilemas but again it is a consultation proposal and we we are keen to hear views on on whether you know 12 is too high, too low or just about right.

[00:43:41]>> Thanks Richard. Uh I'm just going to ask one last question and on that last question I'm just going to bring us back I think to um a theme that I think is really important that seems to be coming through the the questions in the um in the discussions today and that's just around the type of support and resources that we would provide to solicitors and to employers if we do implement these proposals. you have talked about it but I think it would just be really good if you could just summarize again that you know we will be providing adequate resources and support.

[00:44:13]I think just as a kind of an overarching sort of principle Maxine is that you know any new regulatory change we introduce I think you know we have I think a responsibility to help firms and solicitors and organiza organizations understand what it is that they need to do in order to meet that change or that requirement. So that that's us that's our starting starting position. Now, I've mentioned a few of the the types of support we can have we we can provide.

[00:44:43]So, I've talked about a learning and development template that firms can use and take off our website costfree um that if they kept that up to date would would would help them meet the requirement. I've talked a little bit about the the the guidance for facilitators. you know, you know, here is a playbook, a manual that you can use um to help you do what you need to do in terms of a facilitator, but also make sure that the you you as an organization, I think, are getting the best out of the sessions for you as a business, as an organization in as as much as meeting the med regulatory requirement. And I've also talked about us the SRA providing um a bank of I suppose kind of ethical issues and dilemmas that firms and organizations can can use um can can tailor to their own to their own circumstances.

[00:45:40]So there's quite a lot in there that we're proposing. You know, we'll also be very keen I'd be also really keen to hear what else actually organizations solicitors might well need um from us to help them understand our consultation proposals if they're implemented.

[00:46:01]>> Fantastic. Thanks. Thanks very much, Richard. So, I'm going to draw the webinar to a close now. Thanks very much to Richard for his insights. Thank you everybody for um joining us today. Do hope you found it useful. Um I think we've said it a number of times throughout the session, but please please do respond to our consultation.

[00:46:21]We really do want to know what you what you think. As Richard has said, these are just proposals at this stage. So we do want to um to hear your thoughts and and particularly to understand types of impacts that the proposals might have if they were um implemented in practice. So please do respond to the consultation.

[00:46:39]Uh and then one final um plea from me is we would also be interested in your feedback on this webinar. Um there is a link to a feedback form. It's uh underneath this video. Uh I do always say this because I think people think that we probably don't read the feedback forms, but we really do read the feedback forms. We're really interested in in what you think about these webinars. So please also fill that out.

[00:47:04]Um but other than that um that's all for today. Thank you very much for joining us.