Future of America: Protestant or Catholic?

Added: 2026-05-13

[00:03:21][music] Hey y'all. Welcome to Cross Politic on the Fight Live Feast Network. It's good to be with you. It's good to be live.

[00:03:28]Good to be live. Pastor Toby Chox the water boy and bookers Tuesday.

[00:03:34]>> Did we miss the fourth or single deo day?

[00:03:36]>> Cinco de Mayo today. Cinco de Mayo. We already celebrated it.

[00:03:39]>> That's why >> we love celebrating Mexico.

[00:03:43]>> Yeah. Uh >> Mexico don't celebrate this day.

[00:03:45]Americans do. And it's kind of our way of celebrating our Mexican brothers.

[00:03:48]>> The American food that comes [laughter] >> deco burritos. My mom loves celebrating it.

[00:03:56]We, you know, in Texas is a bigger holiday than it is up here. Um, you know, Techmex, all that stuff. And so mom, mom gets out the piñatas, all that stuff. And >> all that America stuff, >> all that America stuff and we love celebrating our brothers to the south.

[00:04:08]So that's uh, you know, salute to Mexico.

[00:04:11]>> No, [laughter] no, no, no, no.

[00:04:15]I got nowhere with these guys. Hey guys, thank you for joining us. Uh, the the show uh, today is as you see the title in your Did you share the show yet? Did you like it? Did you comment all that jazz?

[00:04:27]>> Future of America, Protestant or Catholic? This is actually uh kind of I guess some sort of inter mural debate.

[00:04:34]Sort of. [cough and clears throat] >> I think it's too early to be having personally. [laughter] >> We don't even have America back yet.

[00:04:41]>> We don't have America back yet.

[00:04:42]>> I mean, >> I don't know. I don't I mean I mean the first Protestants like they didn't have anything either.

[00:04:48]>> Um what you mean?

[00:04:49]>> I mean like they didn't they didn't have the nations like it wasn't like it was it was a chaos.

[00:04:53]>> Yeah. and and Calvin and Luther were like, you know, >> they weren't doing a whole lot of partnering. I remember at that time though, >> I know >> they didn't need each other to >> It wasn't the Roman Catholic the Roman Catholic Church wouldn't >> partner with them.

[00:05:09]Kind of hard to partner with somebody that's trying to burn you at the stake.

[00:05:12]>> And I feel like that that's what the Cal are going to say to us after this show.

[00:05:17][laughter] >> They're going to burn us.

[00:05:20]I think they're going to say it's kind of hard to partner with you guys if we're not going to be in America.

[00:05:24][laughter] >> But it does seem like to be very fair, it feels like that part of the conversation we're having right now is we're seeing a lot of I'm seeing a lot of Presbyterians who I thought were solid Presbyterians or some who have claimed to be solid Presbyterians kind of go the way of Rome >> going poping.

[00:05:40]>> Yeah. Yeah. They playing pope in the back of the truck. Yeah. That so I'm seeing that and it's kind of like odd.

[00:05:45]It's like that's I'm not something's going on here, >> right? I I just chalk it up to like they really like Nancy Pelosi [laughter] and Joe Biden, you know, they're like, "Man, look at those those Catholics."

[00:05:58]>> No, it's No, I think you're right. It's uh and I don't know. I've I've seen this over >> 20 almost 30 years now. It seems like there's there's waves of this.

[00:06:09]>> Yeah.

[00:06:10]um of and and I think um because of the turmoil and the chaos that we live in, it's it's and it there is a lot of it.

[00:06:20]Uh there's a temptation I think to try to find the solid ground so-called and I believe that many Protestants um begin hunting for that solid ground in Rome >> and and I think part of it has become that we are finding ourselves as minorities in America. So then what what you have to do is Christians are yes and this is this is what minorities in America have done is they group together with people to make a larger group of people to come a majority to fight against the majority and so what's happened now in America is that because have become smaller which is really weird because technically with the numbers we haven't >> I mean we're still yeah whatever 50% >> over 50% but it's not a functioning 50%.

[00:07:07]or like the people who claim to be evangelical in America, who claim to be Protestants in America. It's not like they don't do or live out their biblical >> worldview in any kind of way. And so what we're trying to do is find the radical Catholics, the radical Presbyterians, the radical Baptist, you know, >> the radical charismatics.

[00:07:25]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[00:07:26]>> We're playing around with the Seven Day Adventists a little bit. Uh we like them now all of a sudden. [laughter] >> I mean I mean I mean Yeah. I mean, you know, frankly, I mean, given the given where we are, like if we're talking about saving babies lives. Yes.

[00:07:38]>> I mean, we'll take the radical atheist, >> right?

[00:07:40]>> You know, you know, >> that's where we've come.

[00:07:42]>> We'll take We talked about this before, like the whole co thing, like all of a sudden Joe Rogan was on our team or something.

[00:07:50]>> You know, I mean, if you got some kind of radical Mormon that wants to help, you know, uh, stop >> Ober Burgerell, right? But that gets into the conversation like co-elligerence and kind of how it allies co-elligerence and all that stuff. You know, we got uh our next senate doc is actually dropping and the title of our next senate doc is can Roman Catholics build a great nation >> and um uh so that's going to be dropping next >> and and Italy and you know [laughter] Brazil did they build Brazil? I don't >> what time would you mark that off at with because it kind of has like >> I mean the Spanish Armada was pretty big.

[00:08:26]>> Yeah. I'm just saying but what time would you mark it off was like okay that's when they went beyond >> cuz at some point there was like well that's not you're not giving all that to the Catholics are you?

[00:08:36]>> No I mean no I mean it was it was I mean there no initially I mean >> it would just be the church for >> just the church right? Yeah. Yeah. I mean the medieval church is my church >> right? you know, it's not it wasn't papist, right? At some point there's a drift where it's like, okay, >> I mean, you have it's after the the Protestant Reformation is in full um full swing that you have the counterreformation and the Council of Trent. And that's where they really doubled down and they're like, "No, no, no, no. If anybody says they're justified by faith alone, let them be anathema."

[00:09:04]>> Yeah.

[00:09:04]>> Um you have to believe in the books of the apostles.

[00:09:06]>> Kind of opposite of Galatians day thing.

[00:09:09][laughter] >> Yeah, that's what they should call it.

[00:09:11]the opposite of Galatians day. Um, yeah.

[00:09:14]So, no, before that, I mean, there's I mean, I'm doing a I'm studying right now. I actually been reading biographies on Christopher Columbus.

[00:09:21]>> Um, Christian Hero.

[00:09:22]>> Yeah.

[00:09:23]>> Um, totally solid.

[00:09:25]>> Yes.

[00:09:25]>> Christian.

[00:09:27]>> Uh, and, um, I'm preparing. I'm actually prepping. Little shout out to Conference. I'm the I'm the speaker for Called Conference this year. And I'm doing uh, >> five Christian American heroes starting with Christopher Columbus.

[00:09:40]>> Who's the other four? Um, you know, because he discovered the Americas, you know, we're starting early.

[00:09:44]>> Um, and then I'm I'm I'm going to do uh >> Do we get to record that for our club members?

[00:09:48]>> I don't I You got to talk to New St. Andrew's College. I don't know. I just >> You tell them.

[00:09:52]>> I just show up and I tell >> you the speaker. You tell them.

[00:09:54]>> Oh, really? I don't know. [laughter] That's I don't know if that's how it works. Um [snorts] I'm going to do uh I'm going to do George Washington.

[00:10:00]>> Okay. Um, I'm gonna be doing uh uh um and I got a >> kind of all the abandoned four.

[00:10:07]>> I'm [laughter] gonna do um I'm gonna do uh uh Stonewall Jackson.

[00:10:11]>> Yeah.

[00:10:11]>> Nice.

[00:10:12]>> And I'm going to do Teddy Roosevelt.

[00:10:14]>> Teddy.

[00:10:15]>> Yes. And um >> Teddy. I'm split on Teddy.

[00:10:17]>> And then I'm gonna And then I'm going to pull up I got I'm forgetting the >> Bull Moose. Teddy. Really?

[00:10:22]>> John Witherspoon.

[00:10:24]>> Oh, >> John. John >> Witherspoon.

[00:10:26]>> I don't know if Teddy belongs in there, but I like him. I mean, I like him, but I don't know if he belongs in there.

[00:10:29]He's a He was a uh >> He's a feisty figure.

[00:10:32]>> He was a >> Renaissance man for sure.

[00:10:34]>> I like I like his man.

[00:10:35]>> A great Christian man.

[00:10:38]>> Yeah.

[00:10:38]>> Little bit of a socialist.

[00:10:40]>> No. No. He was um he gets a bad rap. Um but >> being a socialist.

[00:10:44]>> Well, yeah. I don't know.

[00:10:45]>> I mean, all the all the lands he created in Wyoming. Really?

[00:10:48]>> Yeah. I think he's in he's in the Well, he's not perfect. He made some mistakes just like all the rest of them. By the way, >> about I like Doug's post on Ben Sass.

[00:10:58]>> Oh, >> this week. Did you guys read that?

[00:11:00]>> It relates. It relates.

[00:11:02]>> Um, you know, cuz Ben Sass voted for Trump's >> impeachment.

[00:11:08]>> Impeachment.

[00:11:09]>> Yeah.

[00:11:09]>> And uh, and that really I mean that kind of basically for me took away my love for Ben. I like Ben and really kind of damaged my I'm like I'm like what is Ben doing? Um, but Doug just >> created a good context around that and he he didn't like it either that he voted for his impeachments. But I I wonder if my a similar analysis might come out of what you're doing with Teddy because I I don't >> He was a big fan of the Union, too. And I'm I'm like And Abraham Lincoln and I don't I I don't >> I'm not I'm not down with that.

[00:11:40]>> Yeah. Yeah. Right.

[00:11:41]>> Um but I No, I think he was a he was a a great Christian.

[00:11:45]>> Interesting. Okay.

[00:11:47]>> Um so, um >> uh you know, his mom was a diehard Confederate. It was really fascinating reading about it because he his mom and and grandma >> both from the south from Georgia.

[00:12:00]>> They were sending care packages down to Confederates during the war.

[00:12:05]>> Yeah.

[00:12:05]>> From New York. So So he's a New York City boy.

[00:12:08]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[00:12:09]>> Um Roosevelt and his his dad was u was a committed Unionist. Um but they uh but they had all these relatives in in on in the south and so you know they were just you know and it's just like fascinating to watch how they like just apparently like basically just didn't talk about it like they just sort of like they just knew like and and >> there's real division there >> and they didn't fight they didn't like they were like they hate each other but it was just like you know >> he was busy supporting Union troops and she was supporting Confederate troops and uh and and the Roosevelt kids are just you know growing up in the middle of that and uh anyways >> interesting. Um, so let's get back to our our doc. I'm really I'm actually really interested.

[00:12:45]>> Yeah, medieval Spain there are there are people you know also this kind of I'd say a little bit well actually I'll I'll use this when we tee off the next clip, but here's our trailer for our next synagogue. Can Roman Catholics create great nations? Roll it.

[00:13:04]>> An emperor is standing barefoot in the snow.

[00:13:10]>> [music] >> And he is waiting for a door to open.

[00:13:18]Behind that door is the most powerful man in Europe.

[00:13:26]Not a king, not an emperor, a bishop.

[00:13:30]The Pope has excommunicated him, cut him off from the sacraments and told his subject they are no longer required to obey him.

[00:13:41]>> What [music] guided the pilgrims to the new world? What faith when it took root built [music] the freest nation in the history of mankind?

[00:13:49]>> When Jesus ascended into heaven, he said all authority in heaven and earth had been given to him.

[00:13:54]>> One monk with a [music] Bible had seen what the machine really was. Free grace produces free men, which produces >> societies. We must obey God [music] >> rather than man rather than man.

[00:14:15]>> Guys, I really love doing these.

[00:14:17]>> Wow.

[00:14:18]>> I really love doing these.

[00:14:20]>> Monk to astronaut.

[00:14:22]>> Come on, Juan. Smack yourself for that one.

[00:14:25]>> Yeah. Yeah. You need to smack yourself.

[00:14:27]That is you done.

[00:14:28]>> That is uh HOT AND AND AND >> that is uh that is actually riffing off of uh one of our interviews in the new doc. So we got three special guests in the new dock that's going to drop and it's going to drop next Tuesday. Next Tuesday. Next Tuesday.

[00:14:43]>> I mean we just announced it so I guess it's next Tuesday.

[00:14:46]>> It's going to happen.

[00:14:46]>> Juan, it's going to be next Tuesday.

[00:14:48]>> We declare we declare. [laughter] >> Somebody tell we're speaking at X Cathedral by the way. Um, so the uh you have uh three guests and this new uh doc um and and Douglas Wilson, Pastor Douglas Wilson.

[00:15:02]>> Uh Dr. James White.

[00:15:04]>> Yep.

[00:15:05]>> And um and Joshua Mitchell.

[00:15:08]>> Yes.

[00:15:08]>> Um who maybe some of our audience is a little bit less familiar with.

[00:15:12]>> You put me on to him, by the way.

[00:15:13]>> He wrote a fantastic article for the American Reformer uh just a month or so back. I'm actually speaking into writing about um the current moment we're in and what he has noticed is this sort of growing particularly among conservatives uh among uh we might call the based the redpilled whatever um this movement of starting to say maybe we need to go back to Rome >> and and he wrote this article I think it's called um >> uh oh man wither the Protestant Reformation in America it uh wither the Protestant Reformation in America and um and F fantastic article. I commend it to you. Look it up. It's on the American Reformer. Search Joshua Mitchell. Um but he he argues that there's something in the DNA of America itself that is thoroughly Protestant. Um and and he he says it's, you know, it's that there's this um fundamental DNA, >> Calvinistically Protestant. Yeah.

[00:16:12]>> Calvinistic um DNA that built America.

[00:16:16]Um, and it's and it it has this kind of um individualistic elements to it, but it's also really free and and it's all rooted in what he calls this the Hebraic notion of covenant.

[00:16:29]>> And that the idea of covenant um it sets people free to um be um to basically try things and fail and get back up again and fail and get back up again and fail um fearlessly. Um, and he says that's what built America so fast and and so great was this fearlessness because of the covenant.

[00:16:55]>> And he and he actually said in the interview, he says he says, "I don't think um um Roman Catholicism gets us to the moon, at least not as fast."

[00:17:06]>> Yeah.

[00:17:07]>> He says it's it's Protestantism. It's this it's this covenantal DNA that says that God is sovereign and his purposes are going forward such that as men and women and children just believe God >> free men and women and children >> Yeah. and strive in faith knowing that their sins are forgiven that they're justified completely before God. um that it sets them free to to to sail across oceans um and to and to you know even go to the moon go to the moon explore space itself and uh so that's what he's riffing off of there in a really really awesome way.

[00:17:42]>> So I I want to say like our our doc that we're about to release next Tuesday you got to be ready check it out um save the date Tuesday I think what we at 10:00 a.m. we release in the morning so people Yeah. Um, it it's there's a certain heart we're coming from on this. Um, because we we we absolutely love fighting alongside our our Roman and Catholic brothers and sisters and especially in the culture war, especially in abortion, stuff like that.

[00:18:09]Uh, and especially where we're at now.

[00:18:10]>> We're super super grateful for their assistance.

[00:18:13]>> Well, and in sometimes they've even led the fight like abortion.

[00:18:16]>> I was going to say like we owe >> fair, right? I will say too, I think we owe them a great debt, at least right now as it relates to the humanities.

[00:18:23]Like, we've forgotten a lot of the central biblical ethics that are there.

[00:18:27]Um, some of the biblical natural stuff that's there. We've forgotten all of that. And you have to go to them to get us some of this cuz we don't think about guys anymore like William Perkins or Guj. Yeah.

[00:18:37]>> Right. Like they're not a part of our modern memory. Matthew Henry is used to be the commentary, the basic commentary when I was growing. Nobody has that anymore, reads it anymore. like we've lost all that and they've held it pretty tight.

[00:18:48]>> So, uh, DJ, play clip number five from Wilson. And and this, I think, summarizes well the kind of the spirit of what we're trying to get at with this with this doc >> in the current clown world that we're in. I don't have any problem going uh marching together shouldertoshoulder with the Catholic integralist in protesting abortion, for example.

[00:19:11]Um both of us would agree uh that in the order we envision a burger would not be the law. We both agree that um abortion on demand would be outlawed. We can agree thus far. But let's say we win those victories and now we're the Protestant integralist and the Catholic integral integralist are looking at each other and say, "Okay, now we got some stuff to sort out." Uh, does the pope have jurisdiction in this realm? No.

[00:19:44][laughter] >> So, you know, we let's say we fight hard the 900 years and America repents and gets back to Jesus, becomes a Christian nation again. Um, and then that's the question, you know, how do how do how then shall we live? [laughter] Well, well, as I mean, as the as the dock the the the um trailer for the dock that we just played a minute ago um uh demonstrates, I mean, part of what happened through the Middle Ages was there was this there was this growing increasing power of of the papacy of of the Roman Catholic Church, including to the point where they were um the Pope has essentially um had a power and authority over the civil magistrates. Um and and and and sometimes maybe there was an argument that the civil magistrate >> needed church discipline. There were places where that was happening. But then there were places where that was beginning to overstep its bounds. And it was basically beginning to you know if you didn't have the pope's blessing, you didn't have legitimate authority.

[00:20:44]>> And so you know you know I think it it sort of begins maybe as early as um 800 when Charlemagne is crowned by the pope.

[00:20:51]Maybe maybe it's just maybe it's a ceremony, you know, symbolic symbolic, but like >> it didn't stay there, >> but it didn't stay there. And by the time you've got, >> um, you know, the the Pope, um, calling for the Crusades, >> do you want to go to war? [laughter] >> Yeah. I mean, uh, James White, for example, tells the story when Martin Luther went on his pilgrimage to Rome and he saw the Pope in a military garb.

[00:21:19]He's no longer just a pastor. I mean, he's he's a he's functionally a soldier.

[00:21:24]Um and and and but but that's basically by the high middle ages, you have this topdown view of society, of of civilization. You have you have the pope is this representative of Christ on earth >> who then is the one who dispenses the blessing of Christ on your family. You have to you have to you get your marriage done in the church or it's not a real marriage. It's a sacrament. You got to get you know you need to have your the blessing of the pope to be a king to be a prince to be a magistrate.

[00:21:55]It's all under the pope. And this is what's called integralism. The idea that everything is integrated um under the church and ultimately under the pope which is incidentally why um Americans were like really really nervous about electing JFK.

[00:22:12]>> Right. I mean I mean we look back now and I mean you know I I you think about a a conservative Catholic now who wants to be in in office and they are pro-life and they're you know yeah they believe in boys and girls and marriage between one man and one woman and you think you know that's a that's way better than anything else we can get right now. Uh but at the time of course the the question was is consistent Roman Catholicism believes that the pope is over states which means that a consistent faithful Catholic in America ought to believe that the pope ought to be the head of America.

[00:22:48]>> Yeah. And so that's why there was such a um a a wrestling with that again especially with JFK. Although it turned out that JFK, you know, had he was like, "No, no, no, no. I'm not going to do that because a lot of Catholics had decided, you know, um in America, we're okay with this. You know, we're going to just we're going to sort of be functionally Protestant >> structurally on that question. Even though we still look to the Pope as the supreme head of our church, >> Yeah.

[00:23:12]>> we're going to be structurally Protestant in terms of uh the the state, >> the politics.

[00:23:18]politics.

[00:23:19]>> One of the things that was really interesting going through the doc was I think your writing, Pastor Toby, made it really clear just how different a world view was at play between Protestantism and Roman Catholicism, especially around the idea of marriage and sacraments.

[00:23:35]Like these things really do have massive implications to how you understand and view the world, >> right?

[00:23:40]>> And and then what is happening in the process of these covenanted relationships, >> right? So my marriage is holy because God has established that union as being a holy union. That's right. Not because another man has come along and put his hand on it and blessed it.

[00:23:56]>> That's right.

[00:23:57]>> Radically different. Right.

[00:23:58]>> Because then even even the op even the operation is then how do we be blessings to the rest of the body unless someone else comes along and blesses it. Right.

[00:24:07]>> Right. Just the function of it. So, it's a separate government that operates and functions >> and which has massive implications for how you do things.

[00:24:16]>> Yeah.

[00:24:17]>> And Pastor Wilson actually put this really well. Um DJ, if you can grab the number four, Wilson on spiritual authorities. Um he grounded this rightly and and the Protestant Reformation grounded this in the doctrine of solos scriptura.

[00:24:31]>> Um sometimes people misunderstand this.

[00:24:33]They they call it, you know, pastor Wilson likes to call it solo scripture.

[00:24:37]You know, it's like just me in my Bible.

[00:24:38]But yeah um solo scripture doesn't mean there are no other authorities. It just means that all true authority flows from Christ and only God's word only the Bible is infallible and absolute. There are other true authorities but scripture and and pastor Wilson explains this really well.

[00:24:56]>> All these spiritual authorities lack two characteristics that uh scripture has.

[00:25:03]>> Uh these spiritual authorities are not ultimate and they are not infallible.

[00:25:08]Scripture alone is ultimate and scripture alone is infallible. No human authority is absolute in the in the Protestant understanding. Only scripture only the word of God spoken to us is absolute. So ecclesiastical authority is true authority but it's not absolute.

[00:25:27]Parental authority is true authority but it's not absolute. And um and civic authority is true authority but it's not absolute. Which means that when tyranny begins to develop in any one of those three governments, family government, church government, or uh civic government, it is it becomes possible for a courageous man with an open Bible to challenge the the authority. That's right.

[00:25:53]>> And and say, "Thus sayaith the Lord, you may not do this thing." It's crazy how covenantal even our constitution, the way we think about authority, how that's all rooted in the Protestant, >> right? And that's again back to Joshua Mitchell's point. It's all thoroughly covenantal.

[00:26:08]>> Yeah.

[00:26:09]>> And so and and so rather than being sacramental, it's covenantal. God has established these covenants such that the civil magistrate is in covenant under God, has his authority because directly from God, not through the pope, but from God with the people. But if he does not keep up his end of the bargain, if he breaks his word, if he's acting tyrannically, if he's disobeying God's law, >> then just like in a marriage where if a man is being tyrannical, a woman could sue for divorce, >> and the people can sue for divorce. The people can get a new magistrate. And that's exactly what happened in the war for independence. I mean, the Declaration of Independence, I I frequently call it it's a writ of divorce.

[00:26:48]>> Yeah.

[00:26:49]You know, the the very first paragraph, the preamble to the Declaration, people know, but you ought to read the whole thing sometime.

[00:26:57]>> Yeah.

[00:26:57]>> Most of the Declaration of Independence is actually a list of all the grievances against King George for breaking his colonial the colonial charters. He had given these covenantal charters to the to the colonies.

[00:27:10]>> Well, and for neglecting his true authority in it.

[00:27:12]>> Yeah. No. And he but he broke his his word. He he broke his his his word. And and so the the colonies sue for divorce and say because he has failed to keep his part of the bargain. He's >> abdicated.

[00:27:23]>> He's broken covenant.

[00:27:25]>> We >> uh by right um we we are we're claiming our right to form our own country. Yeah.

[00:27:32]>> We're free of that. But that's all based on the idea of a covenant which is which is the Protestant resistance theory.

[00:27:38]This goes back to um uh uh um Vindici Contra Tyrannos and Lex Rex Sand Rutherford. Um but these were things that got worked out in the Protestant Reformation that said because of that covenantal structure um when a when a when a when a magistrate is not obeying God's word, then the people can say you've broken covenant and they can they can form a new government. But that's based on solar scriptura. That's based on the fact that the law of God, the the lex of God is over the Rex.

[00:28:10]>> So then right now, part of the the the thing we're seeing is that no, you don't understand. It's your covenanted idea and structure that you have in America that's created the mess. And that's the thing that is throwing you guys off right now. And why you have such all the transgender stuff, all the separate groups, everything that all the split denominations.

[00:28:30]>> You mean they're saying Protestantism led to this? That's right. That is you guys are the problem. That's how you get this fallout. And so if you come back and you have one major authority, which is by the way, >> Protestants are starting to scream for that.

[00:28:44]>> We need a king. [laughter] >> Oh my god.

[00:28:47]>> And maybe a pope.

[00:28:48]>> The ignorance of modern protest, American Protestants.

[00:28:51]>> I don't think I don't think it was meant by Christian prince what everybody thought.

[00:28:56]>> But what everybody thought all of a sudden became like hm a pope basically.

[00:29:00]It's like, no, no, that's not that's not what the Christian Prince idea was at all.

[00:29:04]>> They thought like a king.

[00:29:05]>> But the way that they thought about it, it changed the idea of what what it was.

[00:29:10]And so, but that's kind of the thing.

[00:29:12]And so, they're saying if we come back to Rome, we will have the power to institute the change because what we're wanting right now is the idea somebody from the top who can implement all the change and make everything right. And Rome's like, guess what we can do?

[00:29:25]>> Yeah, that's right. I think that's that's why there's a there's a a draw there. Yes, there's an attraction there.

[00:29:31]It's like maybe and so um actually Joshua Mitchell um go to clip six.

[00:29:36]>> Oh, there's a clip for this. Yeah, actually there is. Now go to clip six.

[00:29:40]um DJ or Joshua Mitchell where he explains um basically he in a what I thought was really really helpful >> was that um Mitchell actually says yes actually in a way >> uhhu >> the chaos that we are experiencing um the the social justice movement the DEI movement the LGBTQ the identity politics stuff he says actually >> it is it's our fault >> it actually is a heresy of Protestantism Yeah.

[00:30:10]>> He says, "I'll grant you that."

[00:30:12]>> PROID IS RESPONSIBLE FOR TRANSGENDERISM.

[00:30:14]>> YEAH.

[00:30:15]>> Is that what you're [laughter] saying?

[00:30:16]Kind of. Is that what you're saying?

[00:30:17]Kind of. I heard.

[00:30:18]>> Are you done?

[00:30:20]>> I'm hurt.

[00:30:21]>> But but [laughter] he says but he says but nevertheless, Roman Catholicism can't fix this. Play play clip six. The fundamental reformation insight sorry there in Athanasius is that the only way you solve this problem is through this vertical relationship between man the the the abject sinner and and Christ who takes away the sins of the world. The one sufficient scapegoat who takes away the sins of the world. What what identity politic does is it it turns this on its side and instead of searching for a transcendent answer to the problem of man's irredeemable sin, it looks for a horizontal one. So one group is the permanently stained group and then there's all these other innocent victims. And so right now the prime transgressor as we know is the white heterosexual Christian male. And every group aligns itself with respect to that group. Like how far are they away from the white man? Hence, the category people of color, which is when you think about it's really a disgusting category because it presumes that every person of color is in some sense aligned with every other person in their from the white man.

[00:31:28]>> Yeah.

[00:31:28]>> Yeah.

[00:31:29]>> So, so notice what he's saying there.

[00:31:31]Saying it's a it's uniquely Protestant category.

[00:31:34]>> The sin is uniquely Protestant.

[00:31:36][laughter] It's it is and and and of course, you know, I like how he began this this clip where he says actually this is all goes all the way back to Athanasius.

[00:31:44]>> You know, the medieval church is our church, >> right? Um you know, this this >> it was not a papist church.

[00:31:50]>> No, it was absolutely not. So, so the the medieval fathers, Augustine, Anelm, these are our fathers. And um and it was it was the Roman it was the papists in the in the 16th century um that left the Catholic Church. The Protestants are the ones that's like we we are the we are the true Catholics. Okay. But notice what he says. It's this doctrine of original sin, this stain that has to be taken away, that has to be removed.

[00:32:18]That's a that's a that's a very um um that's a very Protestant emphasis. and that that the doctrine of justification is the solution to that problem. That that by faith in Jesus Christ in the lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world, that stain is judicially and permanently removed >> for all time.

[00:32:40]It's a uniquely Protestant heresy to to still have that understanding [clears throat] of that stain, but then rather than looking to Christ, it starts looking um he says horizontally.

[00:32:53]We need a a scapegoat.

[00:32:55]>> It's the white guy. It's the heterosexuals. You sinned against the black people. You sinned against the Native Americans. You send against the sexual minorities or whatever. And so what it's trying to do is trying to um create this atonement >> horizontally. Yeah.

[00:33:10]>> Which is why it works so well as a play.

[00:33:12]Why we this is why the play can be run on us.

[00:33:14]>> It's is because we are Protestant nation.

[00:33:17]>> We are a thoroughly Protestant nation.

[00:33:18]And and Mitchell's point and and one of the things that that we we draw out in this documentary is and um Aristoilian Roman Catholicism cannot solve that problem.

[00:33:31]>> Why not?

[00:33:32]>> Because it does not have a doctrine of justification by faith alone.

[00:33:36]>> That's right.

[00:33:36]>> Because it blends justification and sanctification together. That's right.

[00:33:39]>> Because it doesn't distinguish those two things. And so you you're never quite free of the stain.

[00:33:46]>> Everyone's always stained. Um, Michael Nolles and and Matt Walsh were just here in town.

[00:33:51]>> Yeah.

[00:33:52]>> Last week.

[00:33:53]>> Um, and back to what Pastor Wilson said earlier, so thankful for those men in so many ways.

[00:34:00]>> 1500 people came to University of Idaho.

[00:34:01]>> We're going to get cancelled from Wall Street, aren't we?

[00:34:04]>> It was more than 1500.

[00:34:05]>> Well, they turned away a thousand.

[00:34:06]>> I know. That's what I'm saying. That was way more. So, you know, this is and they're here for Turning Point.

[00:34:11]>> Y >> God bless them.

[00:34:13]>> Yep.

[00:34:14]>> So, so thankful for that.

[00:34:15]>> Yeah. But my my daughter who was there um said, "Dad," he said, she said, "One of the saddest moments was when a gentleman stood up and asked a question about security of salvation, >> knowing >> you're going to be in heaven.

[00:34:29]>> That you're going to be in heaven." And Matt Walsh and Michael Nolles being good Catholics, >> I don't know, >> said, "You just can't know.

[00:34:37]>> I hope so.

[00:34:38]>> You can only hope for it.

[00:34:40]>> We're hoping, but you just can't know."

[00:34:42]And then this guy just quoted Bible verses from John and and so forth saying you can know >> what do what in the world are they ar this is not just that's a fullon Armenian though is it >> that's Catholic yeah Catholic because because justific they don't have a doctrine of justification justification is just a lifelong process it's just blended together with sanctification >> what are we doing here >> and so if you and so Catholics to be consistent and this is true of Eastern Orthodoxy too they don't have a doctrine of justification either it's all blended together >> with sanctification So, you're you're hoping you're struggling towards holiness, hoping to >> Muslims now. What is this?

[00:35:18]>> Whoa. Whoa. I just So, for the record, I didn't call them Muslims, but um >> it's the same thing type thing now.

[00:35:25]>> It's Yeah, you're you're hoping to be accepted.

[00:35:28]>> Yes.

[00:35:29]>> I one time I was talking to a girl that was in the process of converting to Eastern Orthodoxy and I read her from Romans 8. It says, "Nothing can separate us from the love of God."

[00:35:41]>> So good >> in Christ Jesus.

[00:35:43]>> That's right.

[00:35:44]>> Not famine, not nakedness, not sword, none, none of these things, right? I read that to her and she looked at me straight in the eyes and she said, "That sounds so presumptuous."

[00:35:56]And I said, "That's the Bible. That's the word of God."

[00:36:01]>> Yeah. The word of God says you can have that confidence. But the Roman Catholic and the Eastern Orthodox churches, they've condemned that. That kind of confidence to know that you are justified, that nothing can separate you from the love of God. They've called that heresy.

[00:36:17]>> That that makes me so angry. Like that that makes me so angry because if I were trusting in my own righteousness to attain some sort of holiness that would get me accepted by God, I would agree with him. But when the when God himself wraps himself in flesh and dies for your sin and it is his blood that the father is looking at as being holy or not that whether or not I'm justified like that's the only thing that matters. I'm not even in the conversation. I'm just wrapped in Christ.

[00:36:46]>> And if that doesn't matter then what do you say about the relationship between the father and the son?

[00:36:50]>> Oh >> yeah.

[00:36:52]>> What are you saying about the work that Christ has done?

[00:36:54]>> Right. You're speaking more about the work of Christ than you are about the individual.

[00:36:59]>> Yeah.

[00:37:00]>> Did Did Did Jesus try and he just like, "Oh, I wish I could have."

[00:37:04]>> That's what they say.

[00:37:05]>> That's insane.

[00:37:06]>> That's what they say. But that's the point though here is is that that theology flows out and creates a certain kind of people.

[00:37:18]>> Yes.

[00:37:18]>> That's right. And those kinds of people build certain kinds of nations. talking about being insecure all the time.

[00:37:25]>> You can't know.

[00:37:26]>> Yeah.

[00:37:27]>> You can't know. Now, like my explanation, cuz I would say on a whole host of things, Michael Nolles and Matt Walsh are doing awesome work.

[00:37:35]>> Yes.

[00:37:35]>> And I would say, you know what? Um, God bless them. They're far more Protestant than they realize.

[00:37:41]>> That's right.

[00:37:42]>> Because they talk with the confidence of Protestantism.

[00:37:45]>> That's right.

[00:37:45]>> They act with the confidence of Protestantism. Um, go to um clip three for Wilson um DJ. He explains the doctrine of justification really really helpfully.

[00:37:55]>> Justification is an inescapable concept.

[00:37:59]Uh every society has a justified class and an unjustified class. It's inescapable. Not whether but which. And so consequently, in a society where the gospel is preached, where free grace is preached, where justification by faith alone is preached, you're going to have a large number of uh born-again individuals, regenerated individuals, people who worship God in spirit and in truth. And what happens? Free grace produces free men, which produces free societies. People who are enslaved to their sins cannot bre institutions. But the only way to strike off the shackles of sin is with free grace, the gospel of grace which is appropriated by faith alone.

[00:38:49]>> So in Roman Catholicism though it's it's not utterly free.

[00:38:56]>> You you have to keep coming back and re-upping >> that grace >> that grace. It's all tied back to the sacramental system. They believe in grace, but the grace flows through the church, through the pope, through the sacraments, through the apostolic succession. And if you don't have it there, then you don't have the grace.

[00:39:18]But what happens is because they don't have justification and sanctification figured out, it's it's all tangled together. When you sin in certain ways, you have fallen from grace.

[00:39:28]>> So then they don't have a gospel where it makes things better. Is that right then?

[00:39:33]>> Not not clearly. It's sort of like >> because I mean >> you hope you kind of hope you're you you you're struggling but you fall from grace and then you got to go back to the church. You got to do the sacrament. You got to do penance. You got to go to the mass.

[00:39:44]>> There's no victory over sin.

[00:39:46]>> That's what that's what Doug that's what Pastor Doug is saying is that is that it's there there's never a point in which you hear the words I have removed your sin as far as the east is from the west and it's gone forever.

[00:39:59]>> Yeah.

[00:39:59]>> That you are righteous in my sight. that as far as I'm concerned, what I see is the righteousness of my son, Jesus Christ, from here until eternity.

[00:40:07]>> There's therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ, the best Catholics get weekly absolving.

[00:40:13]>> Yeah. They they've got to keep going back and getting clean again, getting clean and hope that they are clean on their deathbed.

[00:40:19]>> They got to make sure that they're in a state of grace when they die. Otherwise, you know, it's it's it's time in purgatory. It's time suffering. They got to be purified. And even then, they don't know if they're actually ever for sure going to make it.

[00:40:28]>> You know, it's funny. it and unfortunately that sits inside of some of the Protestant ideas too.

[00:40:34]>> I was thinking of Armenianism and charismatics >> a bunch of Protestants have have lost their way with this.

[00:40:40]>> Um when you said earlier did Christ die simply to try >> right >> and he's just like hoping hoping like I hope they'll push the button.

[00:40:48]>> How efficacious was his blood?

[00:40:50]>> That's a bunch of Protestantism.

[00:40:51]>> Yep.

[00:40:52]>> Which is which is not any better than this. And I would I would argue that that's that's part of our problem. was going to say that was just about to go there.

[00:40:58]>> Because of because of Armenianism, >> that is ridiculous.

[00:41:01]>> Because of this semipolagianism, this this fact that that Christ is died merely to make it possible, >> right, >> for men to be saved, if they will only choose, if they will only make the decision.

[00:41:13]>> Way too much hope in man, >> right? [laughter] But but the thing that people don't get is what that creates is a people who aren't sure.

[00:41:23]>> They're not confident. They can't know for sure.

[00:41:26]And so they still have the shackles of sin on them.

[00:41:30]>> What made America so great >> was that it was built by people, you know, an overwhelming majority of them, for all their faults and for all their flaws, knew the doctrine of justification by faith alone, that they were righteous in God's sight, the shackles had been struck off, >> and that they were free, which makes you brave.

[00:41:52]>> Yeah.

[00:41:53]>> It makes you courageous. It makes you bold. I mean, you know, >> it makes you sign the Declaration of Independence.

[00:41:58]>> Yeah.

[00:41:59]>> Well, yeah. It informs your laws. Like, I don't think we think about just how much justification Well, how you view the sacraments matter of We were just thinking about this church government that matters. Yep. Right. And then how you view the sacraments matter because it the sacraments are the thing that tells you what kind of world is this?

[00:42:17]>> Oh, this is the kind of world where a man lays down his life >> for his friends. Sacrificially based.

[00:42:23]Yep.

[00:42:24]>> And it actually accomplishes something.

[00:42:26]>> That's the distinction because the Catholics will say, "We believe in sacrifice. We believe in the sacrifice of Christ." Right?

[00:42:31]>> Again, >> but >> and again, >> right? But what you what you are not allowed to believe or what you're not supposed to believe according to the Roman Catholic dogma >> is that it actually secured the salvation and all of God's people forever.

[00:42:45]>> So, they live a particular type of way.

[00:42:47]>> So, I'm going to interrupt real quick.

[00:42:48]You need to read a couple ads and I got a question.

[00:42:51]>> Okay. I want I want to play the clip about the pilgrims, too.

[00:42:53]>> Let's play that when we get back.

[00:42:54]>> Okay. All right. So, after we get back, after I'm gonna read the >> Catholic pilgrims.

[00:42:57]>> No. No. Very prot.

[00:42:59]>> Very protest.

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[00:44:48]>> So my question is >> the pilgrims.

[00:44:50]>> The pilgrims. Oh, let's play. Let's play the pilgrim video.

[00:44:52]>> There were no caffil. So play Mitchell number three. Mitchell three. Mitchell 3.

[00:44:57]>> What you have with Aristotle and I think the the Middle Ages is a civilization that attempts to to constrain to uh to be ruled by prudence, >> uh balance, proportion. There's some room for growth, but for whatever reason, God wasn't going to let that happen and be the last word in uh in Europe and in America. And so there's the age of discovery. And you know, as soon as this happens, the world gets opened up and the Catholic Church can't handle it because it doesn't fit with this fairly neat top-down understanding. But the providential view, the the reformation view is that, you know, we we can endure a lot of chaos. So the pilgrim story is extraordinary. You know, you get these >> couple hundred people getting on a boat, a couple of boats. They're, you know, boats that have holes in them that the marine worms are eating that no GPS, but [laughter] they have faith that God is going to be watching over them. This this kind of thing >> you only get when you have a providential understanding of God, which is to say we we are going to go through really difficult times and we're going to be tested and many of us are going to die, but this is still God's work. So that's why I think America has grown so tremendously uh is because it has this reformation view that yes we're going to make mistakes but God's there at the end to guide us and you see this in the comparison between the United States and Europe growth rates in Europe which is vestigually Roman Catholic they're very low they don't take risks in American society because God's providence is watching over us all we're prepared to take much larger risks so it's a much more ambitious society It's society that will go to space and and go to the moon and colonize the stars. Uh but I don't think with Aristotle you're going to do that.

[00:46:54]Frankly, >> that's that's that that's that scene. So the in the trailer when you have the the Luther monk Yes.

[00:47:00]>> becoming an astronaut, that's what he's he's riffing off.

[00:47:03]>> Why is risk one of those things that is not rooted >> because because it's back to this doctrine of justification >> that there is now no condemnation for those who in Christ Jesus.

[00:47:14]>> What's the risk? Nothing can separate us from the love of God.

[00:47:17]>> Amazing.

[00:47:17]>> Not not nakedness, not peril, not a gigantic ocean, >> not getting eaten by sharks, >> you know, not not space travel. Like nothing can separate us from the love of God. I'm When you when you have that providential care that Christ died and and now I'm secured in the hand of the father, >> you become a risktaking people. You become a free people that say, you know, I'm I might fail. I might mess up. I might die on the way.

[00:47:43]>> Yeah. But I belong to Christ. I'm going when I die, >> it's all win.

[00:47:50]>> Yeah.

[00:47:51]>> Right. To live as Christ, to die is gain. I'm not worried.

[00:47:54]>> But I mean, just imagine here on earth, Catholics cannot hear there's no condemnation.

[00:47:59]>> Yeah.

[00:48:00]>> There's no final condemnation.

[00:48:02]>> Well, I was going to say that. I think that the potency of Protestantism in America has even formed Catholics sometimes in this way.

[00:48:09]>> Oh, absolutely.

[00:48:09]>> You know what I mean? where I think that's where you get the Matt Walshes.

[00:48:12]And >> I preached a sermon one time on Reformation Day. It was Reformation Sunday. I remember preaching and I like went like full on straight up the middle and I quoted from the Catholic the Roman Catholic catechism like the current one, which is actually a little bit better than than the one that that Luther was having to deal with. So, it's a little bit better, but it's still doesn't like it it still condemns justification. It still says you you you can't be eternally secure. M >> okay I was quoting from that and I was showing from the Bible that this is contradictory. This is this is not the free grace that's proclaimed by scripture by by by Paul.

[00:48:47]>> And afterwards there turned out there was somebody's mom was there at the congregation and she's a devout Roman Catholic. And she came up to me and and she said I'm a Roman Catholic. And I was braced. I was like oh no >> here it comes. And she said >> I believe what you said.

[00:49:01]>> I've never heard >> that anything any I've never heard that before. what you said and I believe what you said which is why I believe that there are many Roman Catholics I've talked to this that you know they listen to Christian radio they you know whatever they read Protestant books they read their Bible and [clears throat] they they believe and so I believe that many Roman Catholics are saved >> um but the official doctrine of the Catholic Church is against um this free grace >> okay so we got the doc coming out this month >> that's Tuesday the 12th >> Tuesday the 12th Um, do you think that would you still consider a Catholic nation a Christian nation? It would be a Christian nation, right?

[00:49:43]>> Yeah. I mean, so so I mean there are some Protestants that disagree with this view, but going back to the Protestant reformers, we believe that um Trinitarian baptism is true Christian baptism.

[00:49:54]>> Yeah.

[00:49:54]>> Um and so we believe that um the the the even Roman Catholics are part of the visible church.

[00:50:02]Um now there are some that have really really strayed um and uh and are are um apostatizing. Yeah. When when you know when they're celebrating the murder of babies and LGBTQ stuff and all that kind of stuff and and full-on commies or whatever. It's like >> by you know by your fruit you will know them. And I don't it doesn't look like there's anything there. Yeah.

[00:50:21]>> Um but but yes um uh there are many Catholics that are are true Christians.

[00:50:27]Um I believe their baptism is true baptism. I don't believe the mass is what they say the mass is.

[00:50:32]>> Yeah.

[00:50:33]>> But I believe that um the Lord's supper is what Jesus says it is.

[00:50:37]>> Yeah.

[00:50:37]>> Um but uh but um so I I believe that a a heavily Catholic nation um can have many of the blessings of Christianity.

[00:50:48]>> Yeah.

[00:50:48]>> Um and the more that they look to scripture, the better it will be rather than looking to human tradition.

[00:50:55]>> But that's the temptation. Roman Catholicism has officially adopted. and so does Eastern Orthodoxy. Um the um the authority of of of church tradition and um in fact the Roman Catholics have recently even um formally basically approved a doctrine of development which basically says that that the that Christian doctrine is continuing to develop. Um play the >> the faith given once for all time.

[00:51:22]That's not the situation.

[00:51:24]>> Uh not exactly. Um um play play the um the um >> Dr. White.

[00:51:28]>> Number four from Doc. We need to make sure he makes a a cameo. Dr. White.

[00:51:32]>> Um, number four from White >> just a few months ago. Uh, one of the first things Pope Leo I 14th did was to elevate John Henry Cardinal Newman to the position of a doctor of the church.

[00:51:44]If anybody knows who Newman was, Newman cottified in essence what's called the development hypothesis where basically Rome no longer has to provide a defense of her unique teaching. She can just simply say well it was delivered as an acorn grows into the great tree. It was it was there implicitly, but it grows over time.

[00:52:07]Andra and that way the church can evolve and change and teach things that the apostles never dreamed of.

[00:52:15]>> And that man uh from the 19th century was made a doctor of the Roman Catholic Church just a matter literally of months ago. Um that tells you which direction Rome is heading now.

[00:52:28]>> Yeah. Interesting.

[00:52:29]>> Where's it heading?

[00:52:30]>> Yeah. it. Well, it's wherever that you know >> I feel like I'm a man today, but tomorrow >> why not?

[00:52:38]>> Stop it. [laughter] >> Why not, right?

[00:52:41]>> It's not just Baptist.

[00:52:43]>> Are they catching our disease? I don't know. [laughter] >> Yeah. Well, he play the clip number one, uh, Catholics and gays.

[00:52:51]You have a Jesuit priest, Father Martin, um, who is one of the leading proponents of the [snorts] LG LGBTQ movement in the world. And Francis sent him numerous positive, kind notes uh, encouraging him in his work. And already Leo has met with him and there's they're smiling and shaking hands. The irony is the only people that Rome will discipline today and defrock and kick out of the church are conservatives. People who want the Latin mass uh people who are traditional in their in their perspectives.

[00:53:30]>> You can be as wildeyed as you want uh on everything else >> like Joe Biden >> and Rome will not take action against you.

[00:53:39]>> Yeah. So, you know, just I I think this is a >> Well, and to be fair in the evangelical church.

[00:53:45]>> Sure. Sure. That's >> Sure. But I think but but but I think people that are listening to us and watching us know that.

[00:53:51]>> Mhm.

[00:53:51]>> They know that there's a cancer in Protestantism and we're not denying it.

[00:53:56]>> We know that there is there is >> I was just going to talk about that >> there's cancer in Protestantism, >> but we have a way of hand Yeah.

[00:54:01]>> Right. But that's the thing back to Wilson's point. We've got scripture. We got the word of God. And a man with the Bible, yes, >> can stand like Athanasius against the world, contraundum, and say, "Thus says the Lord, right? A man is a man, a woman is a woman, a baby is a baby." But according to this this development theory that that Newman said is, you know, yeah, you couldn't see that back then, but it was developing. We didn't know that we needed a pope because it doesn't say anything about the pope in the Bible. Yeah.

[00:54:32]>> But we came to realize that we needed a pope. We didn't know that we needed the Apocrypha right away, but we found out in the 16th century we needed the Apocrypha. And we also didn't know anything about the Excathedra papal infallibility, but in the 1800s we realized we needed that.

[00:54:48]>> And we've still made adjustments since then.

[00:54:50]>> And Exactly. So, but it's like >> there's not any really fundamental reason why the Catholic Church can eventually be affirming gays, and you know, whatever else.

[00:55:00]>> Um, >> and have Protestants done that? Yes, but they've done it in the face of God's word.

[00:55:08]>> Against >> Yeah. against God's word.

[00:55:09]>> Roman Catholics will do inconsistent >> and and the and the theology of >> the danger is that that Yeah. That's so wedded together. Yeah.

[00:55:17]>> Because tradition and the authority of the pope is so tied now to the authority of the church that it's um [clears throat] the poisons in deep.

[00:55:26]>> But this goes back to your point. It's like Catholic's understanding of justification.

[00:55:30]>> That's right. I think that >> it's like sanctification, but even then it's like it's like it grows.

[00:55:35]>> Part of this is bigger than the I mean when I was going through the script and when we recorded this, the idea is bigger than Catholicism and for me in this because what it's saying is look, >> we all see the sin that's encroaching in our culture. We all see the battle that we have to fight, the next generation has to fight. We all see the degradation of generations of unfaithfulness. But that's exactly what it is, right? It is unfaithfulness. And repentance does not look like going to Rome. It looks like you taking responsibility for the sin in the place where you're actually at and say, "Lord, we have not we've neglected to be like our forefathers."

[00:56:10]>> Yeah.

[00:56:11]>> Right.

[00:56:11]>> And I and I I got I just want to return to a point I made earlier, but it's like the church has been in this place before.

[00:56:19]>> Yes.

[00:56:20]>> Uh you know, the the medieval church was a mess. I mean, there were popes with concubines and, you know, [clears throat] like it was it was it was corrupt.

[00:56:30]>> It was it, you know, and and it was uncorrupt on all sides. I mean, there was Protestants that was was messed up, too. There were a bunch of Anabaptist off, you know, having a bunch of wives in their hair.

[00:56:39]>> It's been crazy in Israel before.

[00:56:40]>> It's been crazy. [laughter] >> Yeah. And and but what what what changed what changed the world was a man with a Bible >> was a man who believed the gospel all the way down to his bones >> and said >> that's good >> I have been set free.

[00:56:59]>> Yep. That's right.

[00:57:00]>> Um and it was that gospel justification by faith alone um that transformed the western world. That's right. that build free nations, that build the greatest nations that we've ever seen.

[00:57:13]>> Yeah.

[00:57:14]>> And and so that's the hope now.

[00:57:16]>> Yes. That hasn't changed.

[00:57:17]>> The hope has not changed. I mean, what we have, we have what they had.

[00:57:22]>> What what what caused Athanasius to stand against the world? What caused Luther to stand up against? What caused Knox to stand up? You know, John Knox, but also this Knox. [laughter] What >> what caused George Washington? What caused Stonewall Jackson? What caused God's people to stand up strong? It Christopher Columbus.

[00:57:38]>> Yeah. It was it was this knowledge that I belong to Christ. My sins have been cast away. I am free and I am held by the providence of God. This covenantal love of God which means that I can try.

[00:57:52]I can risk.

[00:57:53]>> I can take chance. I can fail. I can get back up again, fall down, get back up again. And God has got me. That's what builds great nations.

[00:58:01]>> Next Tuesday.

[00:58:02]>> Can we can we play the trailer? and Roman Catholicism build great nations.

[00:58:08]>> Can we play the trailer?

[00:58:09]>> Roll that beautiful trailer, DJ. Let's roll that trailer. That's how we're going to end this.

[00:58:15]>> An emperor is standing barefoot in the snow [music] and he is waiting for a door to open.

[00:58:28]Is that an AI edit?

[00:58:30]>> Behind that door is the most [singing] powerful man in Europe.

[00:58:37]Not a king, not an emperor, a bishop.

[00:58:41]The pope has excommunicated him, cut him off from the sacraments, and told his subjects they are no longer required to obey him.

[00:58:52]What [music] guided the pilgrims to the new world? What faith when it took root built the freest nation in the history of mankind? When Jesus ascended into heaven, he said all authority in heaven and earth [music] had been given to him.

[00:59:06]>> One monk with a Bible had seen what the machine really was.

[00:59:09]>> Free grace produces free men, which produces free societies.

[00:59:15]>> We must obey God >> rather than man [music] rather than man.

[00:59:19]>> Oh boy.

[00:59:21]>> So if you're single, get married. If you're married, have you some kids. If you have kids, go baptize him. Until next week, love God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength. Love your neighbor as yourself. Go fight, laugh, and feast. This >> next Tuesday at 12 >> Cross Politic [music]