ROUNDTABLE ON BATTLEGROUND BENGAL | DECODING THE BENGAL VOTE

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[00:00:00][music] [music] >> Hello and welcome to the NewsX Sunday Guardian roundtable. Well, it's been a pretty awesome week in terms of elections, in terms of politics, and in terms of good old-fashioned reporting.

[00:00:15]We've of course had the five assembly elections that are over. The exit polls came out last night, and I won't go into the detail, but by and large, you know, the states Assam and Kerala, I think seem to be clear-cut. Puducherry also seems to be clear-cut, but Tamil Nadu and West Bengal, that is really where the confusion lies. Most exit polls are predicting a hung house in West Bengal.

[00:00:36]Uh some say most also saying that BJP has the edge. So, will Mamata Banerjee lose her bastion? That is something we're going to be talking today. Though also Tamil Nadu is another state, I think we can also look at where uh contrary to expectations, TVK has done very well. The Vijay factor, you know, will he upset upset the DMK? That is something we can also take a look at, but primarily I really want to focus on Tamil Nadu or on West Bengal. Joining me on the show today is Radhika Ramaseshan.

[00:01:02]She's a senior columnist and a senior journalist and a uh former political editor. I have um Gautam Lahiri, again a senior journalist and a columnist and an analyst and someone who knows Bengal very well.

[00:01:13]Sandeep Ghosh, um political commentator and columnist and again someone who knows Bengal and is from Bengal. But, Gautam, starting with you first, what are your impressions?

[00:01:22]You know, you heard the exit polls. Do you believe them? Without going into details of which one really, but you know, by and large, uh who do you think is going to take West Bengal?

[00:01:32]Well, first of all, at the outset I would say that in so far Bengal is concerned, never the exit poll came true. Their predictions were far away from the predictions. Because if you see, I was looking at the 2021 predictions.

[00:01:47]Uh they were not a single pollster could predict that Mamata may cross 200. So, I think there is some problem. There were many states easy to predict. Bengal is a no doubt is a difficult to predict. Many pollsters are saying the people are not opening their mouths.

[00:02:06]In one of the leading pollster yesterday I saw, he said I could not could not come out with any prediction because people are not talking. Only 30% people are saying. So, 70% are saying.

[00:02:19]So, that is why it is difficult to predict. But, we can only say about the you know, the mood of the people in general.

[00:02:26]In general that I think I always, from the day one, I was believing that Mamata has an edge over BJP. But, no doubt this time it in Bengal it happened in a unprecedented uh kind of an the atmosphere was created during the poll season. And BJP has, you know, they have learned how to win an election.

[00:02:49]They are quite oversmart, you can say.

[00:02:52]We have never seen the home minister of a country is stationing in Kolkata five-star hotel for 15 days. Many of his associates are there. One newspaper has predict given a figure about how many crores were paid to five-star hotels.

[00:03:07]So, that's a part. I would say that generally by and large the feeling is that BJP has not so much organization or organizational strength in the rural areas. They are definitely very vocal.

[00:03:20]You would see the people or media who go to media urban areas, the people are slightly vocal.

[00:03:28]But, not in the rural areas. That's difficult to say, and I would rather say definitely would say first of all, from the day one it seems that the country's whole system is you know, working as if there is some genuine crisis in West Bengal. Something has to be corrected. If you say from right from Supreme Court, when the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court is saying, "Okay, if you can't vote this time, you should vote next time next time."

[00:03:56]So, this kind of thing where the system is working looks like working for a change of Bengal. Change of Bengal political leadership. It seems that not only Election Commission.

[00:04:09]First of all, 90 lakhs voters were deleted. After that, the identification was 16. Now, still 27 lakhs are pending of giving franchise. It has never happened in this country that a voter has been denied uh his or her voting rights before the poll and election is announced. So, it's That's why it's an unprecedented election. Uh never happened in a country after independence.

[00:04:35]So, you may one may easily predict that perhaps the BJP will try to use it. Lots of more than 2,000 companies of CRPF National Investigating Agency are in the field.

[00:04:49]Going in the night systems are being used. Marching uh of the security personnels in the night midnight. All the armored vehicles are there. Looks like a scene of if you see the scene of the square of the city square like it's a Tiananmen Square or Tiananmen Square kind of a picture or a Kashmir. Uh battlefield kind of a scene.

[00:05:15]So, this way has annoyed the voter as well as panicked the voter also.

[00:05:21]Uh but at the at the same time I think that what basic thing which I found that about 115 seats where Mamata party got 50% of vote.

[00:05:33]Definitely there is anti-incumbency.

[00:05:35]There is a lot of organizations in this Mamata government which are true also.

[00:05:40]Uh not true in like that, but yes, corruption is there.

[00:05:45]Unemployment is there. People are in distress that is also there.

[00:05:50]Even the farmers are not getting their dues, that is also there.

[00:05:53]That is why they are trying to give a kind of an welfare kind of an welfare politics. She is doing like many other government, many other chief minister. Even the government of India gave 6,000 rupees to farmer before the poll.

[00:06:07]So, here kind of scheme. So, this 50 whether there is uh and a huge wind against Mamata Banerjee or a swing if you say in the electoral terms to disassociate these 50% of votes, that's look impossible. But, there are 58 seats which are very marginal. So, the people own by the candidate own only by less than 1,000 5,000 votes.

[00:06:35]So, when there is a in uh you know, deletion of voters or inclusion of if you see when in the last Now, the figures has come out.

[00:06:44]That those voters were deleted. But, more than 30 lakhs were new voters. All the voters Okay. So, I'll just get uh Radhika also into this and come back to you on the you know, Radhika, the SIR is one part. But, uh can the BJP unseat Mamata? Because what uh Gautam just said I the point about rural areas, you know, maybe the urban talk and you know, the media also doesn't really penetrate deep into West Bengal. So, have we got it right?

[00:07:12]Priya, it's very hard for me sitting in Delhi not being able to travel to Bengal uh to make a judgment, but yes, the rural areas will hold the key. And there are reports that when this SIR was being conducted, a lot of Hindu names were also struck off. It was not just the Muslims who were uh disenfranchised at least for this election. Uh but a lot of especially the Matuas who who were promised citizenship. So, not only has the BJP reneged not only did the BJP renege or not fulfill its promise, but their names were struck off. So, uh we have to see if that has had a ripple effect on the on the voters who can actually go and vote. Whether >> [clears throat] >> their anger uh uh or disappointment will be reflected in their voting in the in the rural areas. Of course, I'm talking about one community. There are several other communities in the rural areas. Now, one thing that struck me, Priya, is that the Left Front also which reigned for decades in Bengal, uh the really tipping point came after land acquisition in Singur and Nandigram. I mean, that was really the point at which the Left had to flip over. Has Mamata experienced that kind of a tipping point? I still don't think. What Gautam listed is very legitimate. You know, potato farmers not getting their crops are not being picked up, unemployment.

[00:08:40]Uh in some cases, the welfare schemes not reaching the targeted beneficiaries.

[00:08:46]Uh but, you know, you you travel so much during election. If for instance, you go to UP today, these are the kind of complaints you will hear in the rural areas. And yet when it comes to voting, the picture is a different. So, uh we have to see if that tipping point has uh arrived for uh Mamata.

[00:09:04]But, on the other hand, the might of the state. I mean, I have not seen this kind of institutionalized opposition to a ruling uh party or its leader. Every institution, possible institution has been mobilized into service. The BJP leaders have descended in hordes. The workers and so on. And you know, in uh the kind of videos that you see on social media, if you are talking to if the person the YouTuber is talking to um critics of Mamata, uh from their accent you can sort of discern that they are not really uh Bangla uh they're not really Bengalis.

[00:09:46]It is heavily accented uh Bhojpuri kind of They could be from East UP or from Bihar. So, the migrant vote. The migrant vote will be crucial in the urban areas.

[00:09:57]There is no getting away with it from that. And it is possible that the migrant vote will pour into the BJP's kitty. Now, what that could mean that the BJP will walk away with quite a few of the urban seats. So, as we said in the beginning, the battle is in the rural areas and you know, it could be evenly poised. It could go in Mamata's favor.

[00:10:22]Or the BJP is very good at mobilizing voters. Let us not forget it. Rural or urban, they are very good. And this is something that they've been working on since the last elections, I believe.

[00:10:35]Mapping constituencies, working out the demographic, which gave them a kind of base to plan, you know, for the to plan the whole electoral the changes in the electoral rolls, the cleaning up, so to speak.

[00:10:50]They're talking about bringing in hygiene in the electoral rolls.

[00:10:54]Actually, it's something else. So, these are the factors that I would look at.

[00:10:59]So, nothing can be said, you know, about Bengal. Whether the BJP has an edge or Mamata has an edge, I don't know. I mean, theoretically, yes, Mamata probably has an edge, but we have to see the BJP how the BJP's might has worked.

[00:11:16]And knowing how Mr. Amit Shah plans and executes any blueprint that he that he draws up. It's We've seen it happen in Delhi in the last elections.

[00:11:28]We've seen it happen in UP. We've seen it happen in other states as well. So, I think that also has to be kept in mind.

[00:11:37]I mean, the role that Amit Shah has played in this in trying to swing this election.

[00:11:45]Fair enough. I think the issues are really Sandeep, you know, what is your sense on the ground? And I do like that point Radhika made. There's no turning point or a wave against Mamata.

[00:11:54]Also, so either it is the systems have been weaponized to defeat her her charisma. You know, it's one side is the emotional appeal and one side is the systems. Am I right in putting it like this, Sandeep?

[00:12:06]I don't really see it that way, you know, where a certain broad takes of both Gautam and Radhika I would agree with, but for different reasons.

[00:12:17]First of all, as we were discussing, you know, I don't attach a great deal value to the exit polls because why people don't get it right in West Bengal is because you know, the exit pollsters, at least the the companies or people who are doing it, they are not really from they don't have a very close understanding of what Bengal is.

[00:12:42]And also some of their field workers, whom they they essentially have to either induct them locally or people supervise it from you know, the people who come in from Delhi or elsewhere. I don't think just like they don't have a very clear understanding of somebody who was telling me the other day in what happens in Kerala if you don't know your Malayali even in Tamil Nadu, the same applies in West Bengal. And over and above that is the issue about who is talking, who is not talking. So, the analysis as I was mentioning earlier cannot be in terms of what you're getting in terms of interviews, but it has to be an analysis in terms of what how the voting has actually happened. And that's why I I mentioned the second I have been treated around two.

[00:13:31]I don't know how people would have really had any firm fix by 5:00 yesterday evening, you know, when the voting ended.

[00:13:40]And if they just went by the interviews, they could be widely wrong. So, so that's one part of it. But having said that, I have some fundamental points of difference with Gautam as well as Radhika's understanding of some of these things. I think you know, it would be a mistake to say BJP does not have penetration or foothold in the rural areas. I didn't say that, Sandeep.

[00:14:07]Sorry, I didn't say that.

[00:14:09]I didn't I just said that they reached out to the masses.

[00:14:12]That's what they made out. So, so in fact, I think urban areas traditionally, they are the last to change. You know, even when Left Front came in, for a long time Calcutta continued to vote for the Congress. And like that, there is always a lag in some of these, but that's not the main point.

[00:14:32]The real issue in this thing is the demographics.

[00:14:38]You know, it is the irrespective of people's reach, it is the whole demographic divide. That is what if you talk if you hear Prashant Kishor even now talking of 2021 or 2024, what I pack had done or not done, they have all played on a demographic factor.

[00:14:55]And that is where BJP's calculations have so far fallen flat because whatever other consolidation they tried, they cannot crack the 30% overall of the Muslim vote. Or as I said, there are certain areas where Muslim vote would be as high as maybe 50%, you know, border districts and South Bengal districts. So, it's been that. But getting back from there, whether it is for Left Front or today TMC, you know, there is always an accumulated anti-incumbency.

[00:15:31]But that tipping point is reached only after a certain period of time. So, Left Front there was a uh anti-incumbency accumulating for a long time. But as Radhika said, partly it was triggered by the land acquisition, etc. But it's also partly triggered when Trinamool had the ground strength. So, they had the ground people swing in their favor.

[00:16:00]>> on it. Capitalize on it to get those votes transferred. So, similarly, after four terms, there would be a lot of natural anti-incumbency. But that natural anti-incumbency doesn't get capitalized, as you said, or translate until there is a counterforce which is of significance. And this you know, which is strong. And this is where Radhika was mentioning, the institutional factor comes in because BJP realized that they would in 2021, they tried to buy that kind of support.

[00:16:34]That's what Kailash Vijayvargiya and other people did. But that didn't work.

[00:16:39]So, this time through institutional means, whether it's security forces, whether it is your cleaning up of the electoral rolls, etc., they would have tried to achieve some of it and instill the confidence in voters to come out and vote. Now, this confidence in voters also doesn't happen because people have seen whether in the Left Front or even in the last 2021 election, there is a lot of post-poll retribution which happens. So, until people are confident of a change happening, they don't they will not even come out and vote even if they want to do that. But that tipping point has happened. Last 1 minute to correct.

[00:17:20]BJP has been working very hard for many, many years in the rural areas, especially the tribal belts, what's called Jangal Mahal, not Bengal. They have had penetration. They gave it up again in 2021 by the false assumption that they could acquire these things and that's where they alienated again the RSS and their work in 2021 and the gains they had till 2019.

[00:17:47]Now, they have again gone back to that.

[00:17:50]Their weakness remains still the phase two areas which you've seen South Bengal, border districts and how they have whether they managed to they they managed to convert at least a higher number than what they got is going to determine the outcome of this election.

[00:18:09]Okay, we need to take a break, but I'm going to come back and ask a question about the fact that the BJP doesn't have a face. How much will that impact after a quick break?

[00:18:19]>> [music] >> Hello and welcome back to the round table. We're taking a look at the Bengal election and you know, Gautam, the fact that the BJP okay, what I you know, take your point on the institutions and the systems and but here they don't have a face. Is it very important how important is that because you know, the whole thing of BJP being a party of outsiders, that really drew a chord when Mamata Banerjee raised that issue.

[00:18:47]Well, that's true, but in many states we have found that BJP has not declared their chief ministerial candidate. Even if you see the Uttar Pradesh, Yogi Adityanath came later. But will it make a difference in Bengal?

[00:19:01]Well, in Bengal when Mamata Banerjee was fighting against CPM, she was the face, no doubt. But over the last 15 years, we have not seen any you know, big movement against the TMC government by the BJP. Some sporadic incidents, some sporadic processions or kind of a march to Nabanna, the secretariat. That had happened, but not any but Mamata, if you see the history of Mamata, she had done a protracted struggle against the CPM.

[00:19:36]Which BJP didn't do.

[00:19:38]Or rather, the BJP is also a very faction-ridden party in Bengal, unlike in other states. Even some leaders even in their wedding party, they don't invite other leaders. Kind of relationship they have, personal relationship. shows badly.

[00:19:54]Even you see I found one comment from one of the former president of state BJP, Mr. Dilip Ghosh.

[00:20:00]Uh he said that look, this is a party BJP ruled by the center and they will decide the chief minister and what you are think. People ask whether Subhendu is a face. Exactly. Totally.

[00:20:11][clears throat] There is no face. It will be decided by the party leadership later. So don't go on on particular name. Bengali psyche, which is slightly different.

[00:20:20]>> If the Bengali feels the party is anti-India, I don't know what will happen later. So unlike other states with the Haryana, Bihar, UP, people accepted the dividing even if they are not agreed to it. But in Bengal it will be very difficult. Number Number two what I say if you see the Bengali psyche what I'm saying that say in Bengal nobody has to prove that he is a Bengali. So Mamata cleverly, you know, campaigned in a way that BJP is a non-Bengali party, anti-Bengali party.

[00:20:50]If you see look at all the Bengalis household make workers here in the NCR region, they have all gone for voting.

[00:20:58]We are all deprived of eating fish in our home now.

[00:21:02]So Mamata has >> [clears throat] >> campaigned that and if you see that BJP leaders are trying to project themselves themselves as that they are also not anti-fish. And somebody said that fish is not a non-veg item, it's a vegetarian item.

[00:21:17]Because we don't use onions in the garlic even in the fish make fish cooking.

[00:21:22]So if she has seen prime minister eating jhalmuri, then prime minister sailing through Ganges the clean Ganges.

[00:21:31]The prime minister went to Sikkim playing football giving a message to at the same time he's also giving a ideological message by offering pujas on the voting day in Banaras.

[00:21:43]So this kind of mix they have put all their what they had BJP, they have put all their stuff for the winning an election. That's true. That's true. But also you know don't forget that not only I'm talking about this Lakshmi Bhandar or anything. I'm talking this 22 lakhs of migratory workers. They are they gone there and they first time they have voted. Many of them didn't vote last time. Now they have voted this time.

[00:22:08]And Mamata gives them the money every month. Some of the migratory workers have a they get 5,000 rupees a month.

[00:22:16]And also this is a new scheme called Yuba Sathi for unemployed unemployed youth giving 1,500.

[00:22:24]This may give some kind of a created some kind of a vote vote bank and also I would say the minority that unless minority is divided, I don't know whether this ISF or this one could be how much it will damage for Mamata. But most of the in this second phase most of the Muslims are Urdu speaking Muslims, not the Bengali speaking Muslims are in the northern part of Bengal.

[00:22:49]Murshidabad, Bankura, Allah etc. But in south in Calcutta with Muslims the 60% are Urdu speaking Muslims. It's a very difficult to BJP to reach out to them and they are very you can say that if you somebody there is a complaint about the fundamentalism also even the minister who spoke like that.

[00:23:08]So this is one one issue. Another one is that the women voters definitely and the migratory voters they are the actually I think the constituency of Mamata which Mamata is nurturing over the years.

[00:23:19]So how much of the disillusion now from Mamata?

[00:23:24]Whether they needed 1,500 rupees in the SCS to women are getting 700 1,700. So whether this money is enough or they have have a kind of an aspiration. We have seen some comments of the women >> [clears throat] >> They are also aspiring that their children should be should be educated, they should get jobs, not that those only can give them a life. This is sustenance allowance only.

[00:23:50]One thing also lastly I would say one thing people are forgetting or don't give much importance in Bengal this time. Many Muslim institutions are reaching out to Muslim children and giving them education. You'll be surprised to know many of the districts most of the doctors are Muslim doctors.

[00:24:12]Many of them are going to Harvard and Oxford.

[00:24:15]From there they are talking to their parents and the parents and these kind of the mission called Al-Ameen Mission.

[00:24:22]They give So you can say somebody jokingly said perhaps now they are feeling that during the BJP regime they can't do any jihad. They are doing an educational jihad.

[00:24:31]Kind of they are trying to educate their children so that they can fight, they can live with dignity in the society. They are not a typical kind of jihadist Muslims.

[00:24:45]This thing has not been very publicized publicized publicized in the national media the general media. So I think there is a definite change but if the BJP wins, then one can say that now there is a tectonic shift of Bengali psyche.

[00:25:02]If BJP wins Yes. Radhika if Yeah.

[00:25:09]If BJP wins, you know, that's the impact that would have in terms of even opposition politics, you know, the tectonic shift of Bengali psyche but even the whole opposition psyche because she is the tallest leader in the opposition.

[00:25:21]Absolutely. There's no question. You know, I don't think there'll be any India block if Mamata loses or if the and also if the DMK loses Tamil Nadu after May 4th. If you notice That's the other thing. Yes. If you notice Priya, there was no joint opposition kind of arrangement at all. In Tamil Nadu very interestingly Rahul and Stalin did not share a platform even once. Now that doesn't send a very great signal considering that the DMK has been one of the oldest allies of the Congress.

[00:25:58]Congress. And it's very important that the Congress is not in a position to fight on its own and win seats.

[00:26:06]Congress wanted an alliance with Vijay.

[00:26:09]Stalin in his wisdom didn't think that was prudent.

[00:26:12]So you know, there was some kind of friction between the two parties. Now coming to Bengal, very interesting Rahul Gandhi jumped into the fray at the end of the campaign, the second phase.

[00:26:25]And he was seeing Mamata. You know, I mean he was of course critically criticized the BJP but equally he targeted Mamata and that kind of made me wonder what on earth is this India block all about? What is this opposition coalition all about? They come together in parliament at times but you know, this is more important in the the public forum outside of parliament. I mean what is a message that you are sending? And so for the opposition if Bengal and Tamil Nadu are lost, it's like the end of the India block I would say. As it is Kejriwal is in trouble. I mean he's he's not such a pillar of the block but still he's there.

[00:27:12]But on the other hand if Mamata wins and if Stalin wins, Mamata wins. I mean she is a one who fought against the most formidable odds that I have ever seen in an Indian election. Already there are voices from within the India block, not the Congress mind you, which say that she should be declared as the leader of the India block. Now whether that happens or not because primary primarily because of the Congress's obduracy, the Congress would not want to yield that position to a regional party. I mean it still fancies itself as a GOP. And by birth, by entitlement, it thinks And and the pan-India this thing. Yeah, pan-India presence. Mamata does doesn't have a pan-India presence. I mean she tried and she couldn't succeed. Yeah, that is one thing. But pan-India presence where? I mean wherever the Congress contests it seems to be losing ground. I mean I'm just taking the Gujarat local body elections as an example. You had enough and more time to organize your party or organize your party organization at the grassroots.

[00:28:20]You did nothing. You virtually gifted away the election to the BJP. In fact I think the [clears throat] AAP has done marginally better than the Congress or maybe as good as the Congress in certain places. So I'm just taking that as an example.

[00:28:35]So this whole the opposition as far as I can see will be in a bit of turmoil either way.

[00:28:44]Lose then of course Mamata is out of the picture. You know, she is But to win that will create more problems for the India block if it exists at all. I mean as far as I can see it doesn't even exist even nominally at the moment. But that is where things stand. And imagine what a BJP victory is going to do to the BJP and the Sangha Parivar. My God, I mean breaking Bengal I mean as it is there are tweets from their cheerleaders already suggesting that we have invaded the cultural life of Bengal and so on and so forth. You know, as if Bengal is another country and India is another country. I mean the use of words like invaded and things. But that is the way Gujarat is looking at it and they think it is going to be Gujarat hegemony in the years to come. So that is how things stand as far as Bengal picture is yeah, Bengal and its implications are concerned.

[00:29:48]Sandeep in fact, that's what Gautam meant by tectonic shift in the Bengal psyche if the BJP wins. But, uh Sandeep, your take on, you know, what the scenario will look like opposition politics if Mamata wins or Mamata loses.

[00:30:00]It's not going to be as uh extreme uh there's a big difference between Bengal and other states. You're forgetting uh Trinamool remains a second largest party in Parliament. So, you don't expect that, you know, um Trinamool to get into the mode of what RJD has done or even a BJD has done after losing uh uh Bihar or in Odisha. They will uh keep their anti anti up. Mamata would uh so, even if there is a victory, don't expect Bengal I I said this on another show yesterday, don't expect things to quieten down in Bengal immediately. Uh there is going to be either way, uh whether um you know, TMC comes back or BJP, if they um breach um the bastion, you will continue to see a lot of turbulence in Bengal going forward. The issue about whether Mamata get accepted nationally or not, that's a separate battle which would play out between various factors about Trinamool's presence elsewhere or not um there. Who has the money? Uh Rahul Gandhi still seems to get support despite Congress getting decimated. Uh Congress doesn't seem to lack money in going in sponsoring him even in Andaman Nicobar. Uh he's spending time there, I don't know. Uh or uh any other state.

[00:31:16]All that will keep happening. That is uh uh a separate uh discourse. Uh you can't wish away TMC immediately from national politics. Uh at least for the next 3 years, uh they have enough firepower. You were talking of Shalini Ghosh and um Derek O'Brien, um Mahua Moitra, and the rest of it. That will continue to happen. The last point is >> have you been watching social media? I know Mahua Moitra uh attack on Amit Shah, Derek O'Brien, they Yeah.

[00:31:45]>> Is this a sign of panic or is it normal business as usual?

[00:31:48]No, I think it's business It's not a sign of panic, but they will uh you know, that's their uh what you call within the party, that's also their USP, that they can speak um they are the people who are articulate.

[00:32:02]Uh who can talk to a certain audience.

[00:32:06]And maybe you're bringing me to the last point I was going to make here. Right.

[00:32:10]Uh that when you talk about uh Bengali, non-Bengali, etc. Mamata Banerjee is the only like leader of TMC in Bengal. Not that any other uh there are other than Mamata Banerjee, any of the other so-called quote-unquote Bengali leaders of uh TMC. I'm not talking Abhishek.

[00:32:30]Everybody else, nobody else is liked or anybody matters. To that extent, the battle being of Mamata versus Modi is fine. So, the question that there are no Bengali leaders of BJP of that stature, it doesn't matter who else is the leader of stature in TMC other than Mamata. You might say Abhishek, but none of the other leaders you say are even chief minister material or people who will even consider them to be ministerial material. Uh so, on that, there is an even playing field. Okay? And so, if people are going to vote for BJP, they're going to vote uh uh to take a cliche for the double engine sarkar kind of thing. They would expect Bengal having been neglected by whichever party has been in power in the center for so many years, they would expect a change in that. Uh if BJP comes in, it's those kind of considerations which will make them vote. So, I don't see that being a particular disadvantage uh for certainly would have helped if you had a Himanta Biswa kind of a figure in Bengal. But, not having so, I don't think uh is uh such an issue also because they will pitch it against Modi versus Mamata.

[00:33:47]On that note, thank you so much. It's, you know, it's if we're going to spend the rest of this week trying to, you know, get a grip on the election. And, you know, as Gautam said, exit polls have got it wrong earlier. So, they can't really be a marker as to what kind of results to expect. But, it's been a very interesting month, and let's now the last few days the suspense carries on. But, thank you for helping us decode it. Thank you.

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