SE7EN - HMC Double Take Ep 5

Added: 2026-05-06

[00:00:02]We're live. We're live. Hey everybody, we're live. Oh yeah.

[00:00:10]So, uh, we are here, Derek and I. Um, >> hi everybody.

[00:00:18]>> For yet another episode of HMC Double Take Double Take. And in you our usual fashion, we are piggybacking off of last week's HMC After the Credits movie, which was Fight Club. So, we decided, let's go with another David Fincher film from the '9s.

[00:00:42]So, we went with Seven.

[00:00:46]>> Yeah. Is that the Digipac or is that the steelbook?

[00:00:49]>> Yeah, Digac.

[00:00:51]>> But that's the thing just right off the bat. Um, get yourself this this physical media copy if you can, those of you who are seeing this, because it has been a long time.

[00:01:08]You don't see packaging like this anymore. It's normally what?

[00:01:15]>> Just this boring ass plastic stuff, you know? That's >> Yeah, >> that's your typical just how they look and it's, you know, it is what it is. But David Fincher, because he's cool, you know, the back is cool, but then it slides out and it's got this magnetic thing and then it opens up even more. So, you've got all this stuff to look at, including the back to look at. And I'm I do apologize for those listening to the podcast audio only version, but what I'm saying is because you've got all this and it there's there's no it's just one disc. It just comes out of the edge here. It's just one disc, but you have all this extra goodness.

[00:02:13]>> It comes out of the edge like it slides into an envelope. I don't I actually don't have that version. I tried to get the 4K steelbook >> and it's like $273 is like the cheapest you can get which is >> ridiculous unless you go, you know, importing and then there's a whole >> whole price increase that goes along with that too. So >> yeah, which is dumb, >> but I'm sure it's well worth it. I have the Blu-ray copy that has the production notes and stuff. It's like a little book.

[00:02:40]>> Yeah.

[00:02:40]>> Um I should run downstairs and get it, but I forgot to. Um, but it's like a really really nice version of it and uh I really really love the special features on it. I love the the whole regrade the remaster from the original negative is super super nice. Um, really really well done. And I love that they actually take some time in the special features to go over how the updated version from 2000 and on differs from the original bleach bypassed version.

[00:03:12]>> Yeah. Very cool. Like again, you know, I kind of mentioned it uh for Fight Club, but like this is one of those movies that I consider to be art.

[00:03:23]>> Mhm.

[00:03:24]>> Despite the gritty, dark, you know, sadistic nature of it, this this movie is art to me. Like everything about it has just so much talent and thought behind it that it's >> absolutely crazy. Absolutely. I know you I I read about that um like the ble the bleach bypass thing how like >> you know normally you want to take out the what is it like the silver >> silver nitrate. Yeah.

[00:03:48]>> Yeah. You want to take that out when you're developing it, but they just left it in. They >> Well, not only did they leave it in, they added additional silver because when they bleached the film to wash out the colors, >> um it kind of washed out some of the silver, too. So, they actually added silver back into the the film processing to get get the look that they wanted, which is cool. But again, when they when they did the 2000 remaster, they actually digitally color graded it.

[00:04:16]>> Um, so they went back to the original full color negative and they regraded the entire film from scratch using the original bleach bypass version as like a source. And again, it's really cool because on the special features, at least of the version that I have, you actually see like they show you the original shot from the bleach bypass version and then he color grades it live so that you could you can see it. He's using a telescin and you know doing the whole thing live so you can see how they do it and how they you know masked off certain areas to change colors. Um I as as usual I was watching the the um commentary version. Yeah.

[00:04:57]>> And I really really love when they talk about that kind of stuff because they mention things that otherwise I never would have seen in the movie and just one throwaway is there's like a scene where Brad Pitt um which I'm sure we'll talk to about it in some point, but he injured his arm during the filming of the movie and so he's wearing a cast for a lot of the shots and they said that in the original print you can tell that his hand is injured because it turned like purple cuz the cast kind of was cutting off the circulation to his hand. So, his hand is like very purply. And they tried to correct that originally in the bleach bypass, but they couldn't do it obviously because trying to like change the saturation or contrast afterwards is like a nightmare.

[00:05:38]>> So then when they went in the digital process, they were trying to do it initially and then they were able to do some masking and everything to get it exactly the way they want it.

[00:05:46]>> Right.

[00:05:47]>> Very cool attention to detail that I don't think most people will notice and yet they put the the time and effort into making it right. So >> yeah, >> shame it cost so much cuz I really want that 4K transfer. That's >> that's I'm jealous. I'm jealous. I need to get one. And honestly the this is the this particular movie because of the silver bypass and taking you know leaving that silver nitrate in um or bleach bypass like this movie deserves to be in HDR.

[00:06:28]>> Mhm. Um, just because it is so dark because it it it dawned on me as I'm watching this there is so you could take any shot in this entire movie. Doesn't matter where it is. Just some random shot anywhere and there is so much darkness, shadows, blackness, people wearing black clothing. There is so much black in this movie, but then you've got these slivers of light where the characters are or just like certain things in the background.

[00:07:05]>> The flashlight so good. It's so good.

[00:07:09]>> Like, man, the cinematography is just incredible because like that's that's the thing. Like it is so not only is the not only are the themes and just the storyline itself is so incredibly dark and moody, but um you know the the the cinematography matches that to a tea and yet you can still see everything that you need to see. You know, it's not it's not a particular movie where it's like what the hell am I looking at? Like it's it's too dark. like I I need I need to see a lot more. Like it's just this balance, this incredibly well done balance of dark and light. And man, it's just >> which is funny because thematically that's what the movie is about. It's the the struggle and the balance between dark and light. And like I talked about on Fight Club, Fincher specifically says that when he films these, when he he's working with the DP to figure out the exposure and stuff on whatever the set is, like uh in the the commentary, they talk about that opening shot with Gluttony where the guy's face first in the bowl. Um how dark he wanted to make that and when they um built that. So that's a set. They they scouted some places and got photo reference, but then essentially rebuilt that set from scratch. And normally when you're doing a production like that, you add space.

[00:08:37]You like kind of enlarge the room a little bit to make space for cameras and stuff like that.

[00:08:41]>> Mhm.

[00:08:42]>> And in a few places he mentions that he not only didn't want to add any lights to the scene because he wanted it to be super dark and again from Fight Club where he said he he hates seeing actors eyes, >> right? He doesn't he he I I mean not that he doesn't want to see them at all but like he doesn't want to see the whites of their eyes because it stands out. It pops too much in the film. So he wanted it to be graded like that. But then he also said that the other thing that they were after which um the cinematographer um Darius Kanji uh an Iranian um cinematographer also said that they got a lot of inspiration from this by the fact that they wanted these sets to be real sized so that the camera had to be in weird angles where they could highlight that darkness and lightness.

[00:09:29]>> And he actually cited um cops, the TV show Cops. He watched a ton of cops and looked for inspiration in how cops shot its scenes because of the fact that most of what you see in cops happens at night when they're chasing criminals and the only thing that you can see is the light from the headlights of the cars and the flashing red and blue lights and stuff like that. So, it's like >> h I I I I I just love how that reinforces the themes of the movie and is such like a staple of David Fincher stuff almost.

[00:10:04]So good. It's so good.

[00:10:06]>> I know because I've it's been a while since I've seen Mine Hunter on Netflix and because you know at that point everything is shot on digital of course but even then like if memory serves me right even Mine Hunter still had that classic David Fincher look. So, it's possible, you know, if you're working with the right cinematographer and the right, you know, doing the right thing with your color grading or whatever after the fact, like, it's still possible to get this look. But like, >> man, it's just there's >> I I don't think it would look nearly the same if it were if seven was shot today with only digital cameras.

[00:10:58]Like there's just this magic behind the the film look that they could only achieve with film because of the other extra things they did to, you know, desaturate things or put, you know, silver nitrate back in or whatever. Like you can't do that with digital. Like I don't I don't see how you could.

[00:11:19]>> Yeah. I mean, I think it's it it goes more to rather than it being film. I give David Fincher all the credit for that because the thing that is cool about his movies are that although he likes dark, it's like it's purposeful.

[00:11:33]It's purposeful darkness. It's not dark.

[00:11:35]Like, you know, he could have made every shot in the movie dark if he wanted to, but he didn't. Especially, you know, like at the very end, all the helicopter shots and everything in there in that those are pretty bright. They're still desaturated. But he just he's very purposeful about how he uses both the contrast, the light and dark, but then also the the the saturation of everything or desaturation, I should say, because um I read in an interview uh that he when he he first, you know, approached the crew about making the movie and even especially the color graders they mentioned in one of the special features that he said he wanted to make a black and white movie with color. Yeah.

[00:12:15]>> And it's like that this film especially totally just >> nails that.

[00:12:21]>> Like absolutely nails it. And I think um when I watch the comparison scenes of the original film release and then the digital grading that they did in 2000 and onwards um I I much prefer the digital grading because it seems like it's more intent like you know it it it fits more with that light and dark play.

[00:12:44]um where the silver nitrate or the bleach bleach bypass stuff looks cool and and has the aesthetic, but it didn't get exactly what they were going for.

[00:12:55]It's close, but you know, just from a technology standpoint, there's limitations to what you can do with bleach bypass >> that are just blown out of the water by digital color grading and stuff like that. So, I I just I think Fincher just knew exactly what he wanted or at least very close to what he wanted. Um, and I, you know, the the stuff that he didn't get that was exactly the way his vision was. He talks a lot about how the people, you know, again, he's notorious for filming take after take after take after take to get what he wants. And even then, uh, he talks a lot about how much of this movie wouldn't have been possible the way it was if it wasn't for the other people that he was working with because he got feedback from the actors. He got feedback from the cinematographers on what they were seeing and what they were getting. And it's it's just really cool how collaborative it is despite the fact that he's known for, you know, just having that head down like let's do this however many times we need to do it to get exactly what I want.

[00:13:55]>> Yeah.

[00:13:56]>> And I just I think that's really really cool. Again, I've talked about this a billion times, but the thoughtfulness and the talent that has gone into making a movie like this, it just blows my mind. Mhm.

[00:14:07]>> I'm I'm very very uh you know appreciative that people like this in the world are exist in the world and make movies like this because again I feel like it's art.

[00:14:17]>> Man, I I even enjoyed uh the little cuz I was able to listen to the audio commentary with Finchure and Brad Pitt and Morgan Freeman, but just only about like 20 minutes or so. But in that 20 minutes, you know, they go over the fact that the opening credit sequence, how like it's it's always just standard. It is totally normal. You you've got to have credits where the words, you know, are static, stationary.

[00:14:50]>> Not just static and stationary, but pin aligned. They literally have a pin board where they pop pins where the static or the the names are the text is so that it does not move at all. Exactly. So like, you know, again, it was Finchure's idea to be like, well, why does it have to be >> Yeah.

[00:15:10]>> static? Why does it have to be perfect?

[00:15:12]Why can't it wiggle around? Which again totally serves to what this movie is about and just how gritty and you know just dark and and gross and crazy it is like yeah it like it was the I I'm pretty sure it was the first of its kind to have credits like that. Um because again it was just so common place to be like hey no matter what this movie is about the credits have to be pristine.

[00:15:48]>> Yeah. And I don't think that that's like a rule that they had. I just think that's how they've always done it. You know the credits Yeah. Yeah. You wanted the credits to be as clear as possible and as legible and and readable as possible. And the funny thing to me about this whole like experience for them is that the credits weren't even supposed to be like that at all. The original intention for the credits was there was supposed to be a long train ride where Morgan Freeman, there's like a whole scene that they ended up cutting out of the movie that the very opening shot was Morgan Freeman. Again, kind of to our point about light and darkness.

[00:16:21]It was supposed to be very, very bright.

[00:16:22]It was out in the country, sunny day, and he was supposed to be looking at a house that he was buying uh after he retired because the movies up right where his retirement starts. And so then this train ride in Fincher describes it initially as being the hallway between the light back into the darkness.

[00:16:43]>> And so where people talk about, you know, the light at the end of the tunnel, this was supposed to be the opposite. It was supposed to be Morgan Freeman traveling from the light and receding back into the darkness of whatever city. I know people think it's New York or whatever. The it's never the location of the film is never established, right? And it's very purposefully done that way, but it's meant to be that dark seedy underbelly, wherever it is that Morgan Freeman is trying to run from. And it's the the shot was going to be him being forced back into that.

[00:17:14]>> And then they ran out of money. They had already flown back to their principal filming location. They couldn't get back to it. And they were like, "Crap, what are we going to do for the opening credits then?" And then he had that realization that um well now that the movie is like set up so that the John Doe is not even actually introduced until like 90 minutes into the movie, >> we need to have a connection back to that so that people know that there's something going on and we want to leave them wondering. And they, you know, they had kind of it's it's awesome because the Blu-ray has like the story boards and the rough drafts of everything. It's so cool. But they basically went back and were like, "Okay." So they paid uh I want to say like $25,000 or $15,000, something like that. Some some thousands of dollars in like two months to have a a company, a prop company make all the journals that John Doe used. And there it was never planned to show really what was in the journals other than in the one shot where they raid his apartment.

[00:18:16]if we showed him all this stuff and doing all this stuff to give people like a tease of like that light to dark transition like yeah there's something really messed up going on here but you're not going to know what it is until much later. You're going to know something's wrong but not until way later. Um and that's kind of where they got the idea for the credits. And then in that process he was like, "Okay, so we're going to film all this footage and then we're going to, you know, like put the credits over it or whatever." and and they just they thought that it was more appropriate that that's how John Doe's mind works that it's not steady.

[00:18:49]It's kind of shaky. And so like let's put that into that as like a visual gag or like a visual trick as well to not only have the letters shaking but also be handwritten just like the journals and then add some dirt and dust and hair and all that stuff to it. Um, really cool thought process and it's uh, you know, I'm thankful for the fact that they didn't get to film that train scene because the visuals on that opening along with the remix of Closer by 9in Nails is >> two thumbs up. Great job.

[00:19:25]It'll go down in history for me.

[00:19:27]>> Yeah. which which is also an interesting choice too to have that remix play over the credits.

[00:19:35]>> Whereas the rest of the film is scored by Howard Shore.

[00:19:39]>> Mhm.

[00:19:39]>> Um who you know became legendary when he scored Lord of the Rings. But like yeah like it's I it's kind of out of place but in a spectacular way like >> Yeah. Yeah. And the cool thing too is we talked about with Fight Club the soundtrack, how much the soundtrack, you know, influenced us for Fight Club. Um, I thought it was interesting that the Seven soundtrack doesn't include Closer in any variant. Yeah, >> it has it has like the score and a couple songs that are are played throughout the movie, but it doesn't actually have Closer in there. And they initially for the end credits wanted to replay the song at the end of the movie, and they decided against it and went with something different. But I'm kind of glad that they didn't because I feel like it really just suits it fits the opening. The weird, you know, especially if you know the song like the weird kind of like delayed um you know, duplicated >> you get me closer to you can like kind of just barely hear it out of the corner of your ear and you know it like just awesome. Absolutely awesome for setting the mood. You know, one of my favorite things about when we watched like television shows, I love when shows have good like opening credits that you want to watch because a lot of the times, especially for shows where you're not binge watching it, >> where you're watching, you know, a release week after week after week, it kind of like puts you in the vibe or the mood for what the the show is about, >> right?

[00:21:10]>> Seven is exactly that. Like, man, does it get you in the mood for the m especially if you've seen it before.

[00:21:15]Man, does it get you in the mood for what you're about to watch.

[00:21:20]>> I liked how at the the end credits how they went down >> in reverse. Yeah.

[00:21:25]>> Yeah, that was pretty cool.

[00:21:27]>> There's so many little like unsettling things in this movie that they did. And actually, I think that's why I appreciated this movie so much. Like my sister and I were kind of obsessed with this movie when we were in our in our teen years. mostly just because of the kind of interplay between how messed up the movie is. Like I always um it it I wouldn't say it ever bothered me, but I was always interested in the fact that the goriness of the movie is like so realistic or feels realistic that it's like upsetting >> but yet you know that it's not it can't be real. You know, like they didn't film dead bodies or whatever. you know, it's fake, but at the same time, like every everything inside of me reacts to all the different scenes as they're filming this and yet it's not even in the slightest. It's not real at all. It's all makeup. It's all, you know, practical effects. It's all just stuff that they're doing. The the only thing that I understand is quote unquote real is that for many of the scenes apparently instead of using fake blood they uh sprayed tomato sauce all over the sets and all over the rooms that they were filming in. um because and then they left it for like a week because they wanted him to have like a nasty smell so that the actors were like fighting against that which I think it's kind of a cool little detail.

[00:22:57]>> But it's like that's the closest they ever get to any of this being real and yet you have like this just like gut reaction to what you're seeing on the screen. And again, I think that's why I find this movie to be art, because you're getting a reaction from something that's not real, but is presented in such a convincing way that it's close to being real.

[00:23:20]>> And I do like uh this comment from I am Cosmo. Just the fact that it is a movie about a serial killer, but you never actually see the killings happen. It's always the aftermath.

[00:23:30]>> Yeah.

[00:23:31]>> And again, I thought >> the only murder is Mills shooting him in the end. That's the only murder that's ever shown on screen.

[00:23:37]>> I thought that was fantastic, you know, just like you don't have to because it's already so dark and unsettling that if you were to show them happening, it would just take it over the edge, you know?

[00:23:51]>> Yeah. Well, it's kind of like what we talked about. Again, I hate to reference movies that we've talked about in the past for people that haven't seen previous episodes of this, but you know, like we talked about um several times about using when when the intentional choice for filmmakers to let the audience's imagination fill stuff in.

[00:24:09]>> And that's one of those things that I think is like super effective about the movie. even the very last, you know, part of the movie where, again, spoilers for all this movie. Um, but they never show her head in the box. And yet so many people that watch the movie say that they remember seeing her head in the box, right?

[00:24:29]>> It's never shown. There's there's a there's like a brief, you know, fineresque >> single shot or single frame of her laying on on the bed or something or, you know, they show her face, which is funny cuz uh that's one of the other things I like about the details in this movie. Seven is present in a bunch of different places and that's one of them.

[00:24:50]The shot of her face happens when there's exactly seven minutes left in the movie.

[00:24:55]>> Um and and you see it, it's it's just one frame. It comes in and out, but you never see her head in the box. So, like all of that is just left up to the audience's imagination. Like, was the killing as brutal as it was meant to be?

[00:25:07]And blah blah blah blah blah. And >> um that happens with every murder. Every single one of the murders, you see the aftermath and you're just like, "Oh god, how did it how did it get here?"

[00:25:16]>> Yeah.

[00:25:16]>> How did it get to this point?

[00:25:18]>> Yeah, man.

[00:25:22]Uh yeah, it's it's being such a lover of films like Yes.

[00:25:29]It's disturbing, but at least I can, you know, separate the fiction from reality to the point where I can just appreciate just a a work of art like this. Like, >> you know, I I can probably see a lot of people out there that get a little too squeamish about this kind of thing um just on an entertainment standpoint and they're like, I never want to see seven again. But the filmmaker and the cophile in me is like, but it's just such a good movie.

[00:26:02]It's so well executed.

[00:26:05]>> Yeah. And >> especially the creativity in in making that stuff happen. Like I don't know if you watched The Pit, but The Pit is medical drama that's airing on HBO right now. And a lot of the stuff that they show in the pit, like multiple people, multiple doctors, surgeons, er, you know, attendees, uh, yeah, attendees have commented on how accurate a lot of what happens in the pit looks. And the same comments were levied. You know, actually, there's, I think, only one thing that they ended up cutting out of the movie, and that was in the gluttony scene. The guy, the makeup artist that was doing, which that's another thing. I thought that the dead fat guy was a a dummy, >> right?

[00:26:48]>> It's a It's a real actor. It's an actor that did makeup for 10 hours and then had a little snorkel >> so that he could breathe out of the bowl or whatever. Um, but when they had his body on the slab, they cut out the autopsy because they found out afterwards >> that it wasn't act it wasn't written in the script as accurate to how an autopsy is actually performed. So, they cut out the actual scenes of the autopsy and they just kind of come in after the autopsy has already been performed. But outside of that, like most of the stuff that I've seen commenting on the visual look of these disgusting things specifically calls out how um I I don't want to say accurate because I don't, you know, there's there's a certain level of accuracy that you can achieve with this kind of stuff. But at the very least, it feels very real to what would happen if these people were in these very unfortunate, gross situations.

[00:27:44]>> Yeah.

[00:27:46]And I mean, yeah, like that's I I don't if it's if it's done this well, then yeah, I I don't mind trying to achieve as most as best to reality as you can get.

[00:28:03]>> Um, >> well, it's I I think some people may call it gratuitous. I think it's the exact opposite of gratuitous. it's needed to really sell just how depraved all the stuff that's happening is especially in a movie like this, you know, like um Kevin Spacy despite >> current events and all that stuff. Um he he's still a very thoughtful actor and he had, you know, Fincher basically gave Kevin Spacy like full context over how John Doe operated. And one of the things that they did because Kevin Spacy was like it would be more realistic this way is to shave his head. He wasn't originally supposed to have a shaved head. And Kevin Spacy was like if he's clipping his fingernails off and and cutting the fingerprints off, you know, the fronts of his fingers to avoid any kind of DNA evidence or anything, you know, that he would be tracked with. He would also have shaved his head. He wouldn't just be letting loose hairs fall around at the crime scenes.

[00:29:04]Especially, you know, for the one it's they say he visited for a year. Like some of the pictures started like a year in advance.

[00:29:10]>> Yeah.

[00:29:11]>> There's there's no way that he would have gotten all the way to that point.

[00:29:14]Um and actually Broinko mentions in the chat uh about changing the ending.

[00:29:20]That's another thing like I'm so glad that universally every single one of the actors, the director, everybody was like, "No, we are not changing the ending." because the studio multiple times tried to they wrote multiple endings. They filmed or storyboarded multiple endings and every single version that I've heard is so much like worse not in the gratuitous graphic way but worse in that it would have ended in a much much worse movie. The only con uh >> uh the only consolation I guess that they did was originally the movie was supposed to end right at the gunshot >> when when Mills shoots him. it was just supposed to fade to black at that point.

[00:29:59]Credits roll and the studio was like, "No, that's people aren't gonna like that or that's too dark or too sad of an ending or whatever." So, they were like, "Fine."

[00:30:08]>> And then they gave Morgan Freeman a little, you know, monologue over some some random footage. But, >> I'm so glad they didn't do that.

[00:30:17]>> Yeah. Yeah, I read that Brad Pitt said he would like refuse to even do the movie or finish the movie if that ending was not there.

[00:30:27]>> Yeah. Well, so to David Fincher, you mentioned in the Fight Club discussion about how bad his experience was with Alien 3, and he he literally was like, I don't even want to do any movies. So, when they first approached him to make this one, he wasn't even into that at all. And then when they started doing the same stuff and kind of muddle, you know, muddying the waters and muddling or meddling with his uh vision, he started getting like really upset. And he was actually worried that the actors were just going to kind of be like fine, whatever, to get the movie made. And he said that he was very very thankful that none of the cast and crew, there was literally only producers that were pushing for the ending to be changed.

[00:31:08]And even and you know again there was some producers wanted just small little changes like um one of the changes that was actually written out was that uh Somerset would shoot John Doe and that it was supposed to be like the happy ending because Mills would get to you know live out at least the rest of his life and the the old guy who was retiring anyway and you know didn't have that much time left was the one that was going to go to jail and they were like no Brad Pitt actually was the one that spoke up and was That is completely antithetical to the point of the movie, which is that like his naivity, inexperience, and passion are exactly why he was targeted in the first place.

[00:31:48]Yeah. You know, there was a version that was written where the head in the box wasn't actually Tracy's.

[00:31:55]>> And um so Mills ends up shooting John Doe going to prison and then Somerset buys the house that he was looking at originally at the beginning of the film from the original opening. He buys that house for Tracy and the the baby as like penance for, you know, what he's allowed to happen to their family or whatever.

[00:32:17]Just so many unsatisfying endings. Like I almost kind of hate talking about them because they're all way worse than the ending that they wrote and that we, you know, even with the compromise ended up getting.

[00:32:29]>> Yeah.

[00:32:33]>> Oh man.

[00:32:36]Yes. I love your shirt. Watch the DVD bonus features.

[00:32:40]>> Yes.

[00:32:40]>> Yeah.

[00:32:42]>> Yes. Very much so. There's so there's just there's so much that you learn about the thought process that these people go through. And again, it really makes me appreciate a lot of the stuff that they did. Like uh not to keep ranting about the studio messing with stuff, but did you know that there was a sequel to Seven?

[00:32:59]>> No.

[00:32:59]>> They wrote they wrote a whole sequel to Seven. It was going to be called 8. Ei, the number eight ht.

[00:33:06]>> Um, yeah, terrible, terrible idea.

[00:33:09]Nobody that nobody wanted to come back for it. Brad Pitt, Morgan Freeman, Fincher are all like, "No, that's that's ridiculous. It's stupid."

[00:33:17]>> And they ended up releasing it as a slightly modified version of the film called Solace, which I kind of want to watch now just because of like a morbid curiosity of why, you know, what story could they possibly have come up with?

[00:33:31]And apparently like uh Somerset somehow becomes psychic after this is like the the premise of it. Yeah. Where he can like think like serial killers or some crap.

[00:33:43]>> Oh, what?

[00:33:44]>> Yeah. Just a really terrible terrible plot device that they kind of tried to force into it. Um and yeah, so this movie exists and it was originally supposed to be the sequel to Seven. It was supposed to be called Eight. So go watch it and be thankful that it didn't.

[00:34:00]>> Seven makes sense because of the seven deadly sins. So what what's the significance of the number eight?

[00:34:06]>> Well, I guess technically there are eight deadly sins. Um what is it? Uh Orthodox Christianity lists uh despair.

[00:34:15]Despair is the eighth deadly sin. Um >> Okay.

[00:34:20]>> Yeah. And I guess, you know, which again to me, like you're saying, it doesn't really make sense because the whole purpose of the seven deadly sins was that it was supposed to be kind of the antithesis to the seven virtues, >> which are, you know, honesty, uh, uh, courage, whatever. The seveny, I don't >> Yeah. Yeah. Seven, the seven virtues are supposed to be mirrors of the or the seven deadly sins are supposed to be mirrors of the virtues. So, I don't know if there's also an eighth virtue, but it doesn't really make sense unless it is.

[00:34:52]However, they do mention that when they were researching the seven deadly sins, or I guess the writer was researching the seven deadly sins, he did find that there were eight deadly sins in Orthodox Christianity. And so when he was writing it, um, Somerset is technically the eighth the the, you know, the unofficial official sin because the whole time he's like dis despondent and desparing about what is happening and that he's not leaving. He's not retiring because he's accomplished what he wanted to accomplish as an officer of the law.

[00:35:27]he's accomplishing or he's retiring because he's burnt out on how much they're not accomplishing and how many terrible things are still going on and how the world is still a terrible place and you know so >> yeah.

[00:35:45]>> Yeah. Despair the eighth eighth deadly sin.

[00:35:50]I mean, I guess, but still.

[00:35:53]>> Well, it's supposed to be I guess the reason it's a sin is because you're supposed to put trust in God, that God will take care of you, and that God will do everything. So, if you're despairing, it means that you're not trusting in God. And so, you know, that that's that's what the sin is supposed to be.

[00:36:08]>> I see.

[00:36:09]>> And I guess I mean, I get it, but it's again trusting God as a virtue versus as a sin. I don't know. doesn't it doesn't seem quite as as equal as the rest of the rest of the this actual Seven Deadly Sins.

[00:36:26]>> Yeah.

[00:36:28]>> Um >> could this could this movie be made today?

[00:36:32]>> Uh could it? Yes. Would it be done the same way? No. I honestly think that this movie um would have been like a you know Blumbhouse A24 kind of picture which I guess I mean technically back in the day that's kind of what it was cuz New Line this was really their first like major production with A-list stars >> you know I guess um I I guess it could have been like an A24 thank you for joining Broinko you crack me up on every stream. I love I love your thought processes.

[00:37:09]>> I want a sequel where Kevin Spy is just in the mind of Brad Pitt.

[00:37:14]>> Yes.

[00:37:16]>> It's It's like a Freaky Friday swap.

[00:37:18]They're both still in the movie, but it's it's Face Off. It's Morgan Freeman playing Brad Pitt and Brad Pitt playing Morgan Freeman. Yes. So, it connects to the fight the Fight Club cinematic universe. That's hilarious. Actually, it's funny that you say that because one of the things that I noticed in the movie that they actually mentioned um when I was watching the commentary was that um Mills and Somerset are intentionally portrayed as being equally intelligent.

[00:37:44]>> Yeah.

[00:37:45]>> Somerset is not ever shown to be more intelligent than Mills. It's just experience that separates them. Mills is the naive, you know, shotgun, uh, you know, >> passionate fly by the seat of his pants guy, and Mills is the experience. He's been through this ride so many times.

[00:38:05]Not obviously in exactly the same way cuz he explicitly says that he's never seen anything quite as depraved before.

[00:38:12]>> Mhm.

[00:38:12]>> But just the fact that, you know, he's kind of the more even keel. You know, he mentioned several times, you need to take your emotion out of this. You need to take emotion out of the equation. you need to learn to think. Um, Morgan Freeman in the commentary talks about how uh he there was a part where they had initially talked about Somerset telling Mills about having a third eye and just meaning metaphorically that when you've exhausted all the options, you need to take a step back and look at it from an angle that you've never looked at before. Um, but they decided to cut that out because they didn't want Somerset really like, you know, they they were meant to be even keel and the only differentiator between them was experience. That one was the new guy and one was the old guy getting ready to sail off into the sunset.

[00:38:59]>> Mhm. With Frodo and the rest of the gang.

[00:39:04]I I really liked it in the commentary too when um they they David Fincher broke down the fact that like um one of the first conversations that Mills and Somerset have between each other um is just literally a two a twoot where it's just >> um you can see both of them in the same frame and they're just talking because like even the camera operators and the producers were like don't we want to have coverage? Don't we want to have them walking or something? It's like, "No, just let it play out. Just have them have a conversation. Just kind of build this rhetoric they have between each other. Um, build their relationship. Just it just the dialogue itself kind of gives you, you know, exactly who these people are and and where they're coming from and how they operate and, you know, how they react to certain words or whatever. Like I I thought that was really cool. That's like, you know, any any director can probably have just a knee-jerk reaction to try and make it, you know, let's amp it up just a little bit, you know?

[00:40:16]>> Um, but like there's this like quiet reverence to something like that where it's just let's just have them talk like >> Yeah. Well, like I I I think it's funny because to your point, you have Brad Pitt, like you could get so many, you know, uh, coverage shots of him like up close. He's a good looking guy. Like you want to sell the movie and they and he actually mentioned several times that part of the reason that he did it like that is because he wanted it to feel real. He wanted it to feel like they were meeting for the first time and this was a conversation that they were naturally having. and he talked about how, you know, there's several uh the rain >> the the reason why it's raining throughout the entire movie. He said when they first started filming uh was a practical reason and it he said there were two things that they in that they intentionally solved for by having it rain and one was the location. He was afraid that in all the shots of them driving in the car or them walking outside that people would see signs or be able to read stuff that was, you know, like hidden somewhere, street signs. And so that would give them like an idea of where the location was. And they didn't want that. They wanted the movie to very much be in a non-specific location to kind of show that this type of thing could happen anywhere. like it literally, you know, striving for not just realism in terms of like what you're seeing on screen, but realizing or or having that realism of the mood of what that feels like to be experiencing something like this when it could happen literally anywhere in any city in America. So, there was like that that practical reason for the rain. And then the second one uh the the the second reason for um the rain was just kind of uh because they wanted to have like a consistency where they didn't want to have to worry about is this shot in the sun is you know any kind of like uh anacroni not anacronistic but you know like synchronicity stuff where there's like different if it's raining in every shot up until John Doe. That's another thing that's really cool. the whole rest of the movie is in sunlight, but up until John Doe turns himself in, it's all like rainy and dreary and there's puddles everywhere and all that stuff.

[00:42:33]But it was a practical thing. They they didn't want to have to account for all these different lighting conditions and all this stuff. They want didn't want people to see through the windows. It was just they wanted realism. They wanted it to feel like you were in this real place that could be your hometown or your city or whatever and that this nasty stuff could happen to anybody.

[00:42:54]Yeah, you mentioned that first scene or at least uh like when John Doe ends up turning himself in. Mhm.

[00:43:02]>> Um it's this tracking shot that's just panning from left to right um as they're about to go into the precinct. And and even that shot like even if even though it is sunny, you could still see the wet asphalt because it had rained not that long prior to this particular scene. And even the the taxi that John Doe gets out of is just covered in moisture. just covered in raindrops. Um, and even though it's sunny, like just the the darkness of the road, there's like dark windows, there's this dark um like doorway. There's just so much darkness still even though it is so sunny outside. and even like the inside the precinct with the, you know, sunbeams coming down and stuff, but there's still so much dark, so much blackness, >> that contrast, >> it's just, man, and and even um even when they're out by the power lines and stuff out in the open in the country, um there are so many shots where it's back lit, where it's bright as day, but like you could barely see any features on Kevin Spacy's face or even Brad Pitt's face and it's like normally you're gonna want most directors would want to you know have some extra lighting so that we can actually see some of the features and you know we've got these amazing actors we want to make them seen but no like again it's just this shadow of a man you know and it and it's >> quite literally >> yeah so It's Yeah. Everything about this movie again is is art. It's >> uh we talked a little bit about it with Fight Club last time. Um but again, the rewatching a movie like Fight Club or like Seven, you start to see little details that they kind of sneak in there. And I love how many times John Doe shows up before he turns himself in in various shots in the background. Um Fincher talks about how they didn't necessarily direct people that were like extras in the background with what to do because he wanted it to feel like a like a live place, but that you weren't focused on stuff that was happening. Because he said that >> too many times films, you know, in order to get the quote unquote right shot, they kind of prescribe what is happening in the background so that it's not too distracting, which makes sense. you know, I think for for most movies, you want the foreground stuff to be what people notice, but he said that there's a ton of like little stories that are happening in the background. And so, a few of the things that they did, you know, there's the scene with the photographer that comes up the stairs that ends up being Kevin Spacy. And if you pause the film, you can actually see it's just Kevin Spacy in a wig, which is hilarious.

[00:46:12]>> Oh, no way. Yeah. Yeah. It's It's pretty funny cuz I I when I when I was watching it, I was like, "Wait, like did did he actually take that picture?" And so I went back to it and was like trying to freeze frame it or whatever.

[00:46:24]>> Yeah.

[00:46:25]>> Yeah. It's Kevin Spacy in a wig. Um but then also the scene where they go um I think it's like a laundromat or something and the guy describes the seeing the guy run off with a limp or he was limping like when he ran off or whatever. And like right when they say that behind them you see the dude walking with the limp and it's like clearly John Doe. Um >> there's also uh what was the other one?

[00:46:51]Um, shoot. I'm drawing a blank on what the other one was, and I didn't I didn't write it in my notes, but there's a few there's a few spots in the movie where they like make mention of stuff or, you know, oh, oh, oh, in the uh when Somerset and Tracy are talking when she tells him he's pregnant >> or he's pregnant, she's pregnant.

[00:47:11]>> Uh, John Doe is in the background. He's at the diner where they're talking. Hey, that's how he finds out that Tracy is pregnant and that it starts the whole loop of envy so that when they chase after him in the next scene, he lets Brad Pit go because he's like, "Oh, I I can use this, you know, to my advantage."

[00:47:30]>> So, like, it's very surprising to me that both Fight Club and this movie have like hints almost. They're like little hints all throughout the movie of like, "Hey, this is coming. This is coming.

[00:47:43]Mhm.

[00:47:43]>> Hope you're ready for it. It's coming.

[00:47:45]Because now when you watch it in hindsight, it's like, "Oh my god, how did I not notice those things?" Or, "How did I not see those things? They're right in front of you."

[00:47:53]>> I thought it was a really cool idea, too, to not have John Doe enter the story until the midpoint.

[00:48:03]Um cuz the the chase scene the chase scene >> where you know John Doe shoots at them because he's at their apartment at they're at his apartment. Um yeah that I I paused and I was like oh yeah this is pretty much the middle of the movie. So the midpoint is when he's finally a part of the story. Um, and like yeah, I I thought that was a good use of, you know, like just kind of keeping him out of the picture for the most part until he's needed because >> yeah, the cool thing I I think about that is that Kevin Spacy, they initially, even though he doesn't appear in the middle of the movie, they wanted to give Kevin Spy top billing >> and he he was like, "No, >> absolutely not." like you can't give away that I'm the bad guy in this movie.

[00:48:57]And I think, you know, there's there was a couple uh interviews where like he self- servingly admits that part of why he did it was because he didn't want to do the press tours for the movie. And if they had, you know, prominently displayed, then he'd have to do all that stuff. But, you know, he's like a >> he's a pretty big actor at the time that this movie came out. Um, but he's not credited. He's not in the opening title crawl. They don't have his name in there. He's credited twice, I think, at the end of the movie. They credit him once right at the end and then in the actual like alphabetical cast listing or whatever.

[00:49:31]>> Um, but yeah, like what a great idea, not just to not include him from a writing perspective until the midway point and really focus on the characterization of Mills and Somerset first, right?

[00:49:43]>> But then also, what a stroke of genius on Kevin Spacy's part to just be like, "No, don't don't include me anywhere.

[00:49:49]like I'll show up, trust me.

[00:49:56]>> Yeah, man.

[00:49:57]>> I'm trying to think of uh I'm looking at IMDb right now to see what the uh other movies were that he was in around this time because I can only think of Usual Suspects was the only big one. But yeah, but you know what's funny?

[00:50:08]>> Outbreak LA Confidential Iron Iron Sea Iron Will.

[00:50:12]>> You know what's funny is that Seven and Usual Suspects were both 1995 and Kevin Spacy has a limp in both movies.

[00:50:22]>> Yeah. Yeah, that is kind >> or at least in Usual Suspects, he fakes a limp, >> right? Spoiler.

[00:50:32]>> Yeah. Uh but Master Stroke, man, like them just, you know, I wonder actually uh uh Andrew Kevin Walker was the writer on Seven and he also did some rewrites on Fight Club. He was uncredited in Fight Club though and that's the reason why the detectives in the the when they try to castrate uh Tyler Norton, they're named uh an Detective Andrews, Detective Walker, Detective Kevin's. Right.

[00:51:00]>> It's because it's because of Andrew Kevin Walker. But I wonder if that was his if that was written in the script that way to not show John Doe because again, you know, when they did the opening, you kind of see like little glimpses of him, but they never show his face. It's just the the the things that he's doing as opposed to who he is, >> right? So, if he did write the script intentionally to not do that, kudos to him also, cuz that I think is a it's a bold decision and one that could have backfired.

[00:51:34]>> And I think it not only did not backfire, but it legitimately makes part of the movie because there's such a there's such a shift >> in that, you know, from act one and two to that final act where they arrest him.

[00:51:49]>> So good. So good.

[00:51:51]Yeah, man.

[00:51:56]Uh, what else?

[00:51:58]>> Yeah.

[00:51:59]>> Who what other uh actors? Oh, Arley Irmy. Um, Arley Irmy actually originally auditioned for John Doe, which I thought was interesting. I I saw a couple different actors that had auditioned for John Doe or that had been initially kind of floated as being the John Doe character. Um, and I'm so glad that they didn't get the part because, uh, Kevin Spacy, I guess, is like quoted as saying that they offered him the role two days before they started filming because the actor that they had chosen dropped out.

[00:52:32]But in the commentary, Brad Pitt and David Fincher specifically say that that is not the case. That Kevin Spacy was like their choice from the beginning.

[00:52:40]That when they saw his screen test, they were like, "Oh, yeah. He's the guy."

[00:52:44]Like he's he's the one. Um because every other one that I read about was like thank god thank god that was not them.

[00:52:51]Arley Irmy was apparently too serial killery like it was too um intentional I guess or whatever whereas like Kevin Spacy's is very subdued and he's very calm and he's in control.

[00:53:03]>> Yeah.

[00:53:04]>> Um and they actually uh uh Fincher talks about the one scene that he doesn't like in seven um that he tried to get some re-shoots done but they they didn't have the money. they didn't have the time was the final shot or the final scene of them in the car where they're talking to John Doe as they're driving to the middle of that field or whatever because he said he kept trying to tell Kevin Spacy to like tone it down to tone it down because the whole rest of his performance was so like subdued right >> that um he didn't he didn't like the fact that he was getting like angry at at Mill's kind of insinuations against him. Um, and then on top of that, I guess road noise and just filming difficulties made it so they had to um re-record their dialogue, do ADRs afterwards.

[00:53:55]>> Yeah.

[00:53:56]>> Um, do dialogue replacements afterwards.

[00:53:58]So, um, he said it it just it doesn't feel right. And then Brad Pitt, I guess, kind of like re-emphasizes that and was like, "Yeah, it lost a lot of its breath because when they were filming it, it felt very like tense and, you know, um Kevin Spacy's character John Doe is not he's not supposed to be floundering.

[00:54:17]He's supposed to like know ahead of time that he's won, that this is exactly what he's wanted and that he's in control of the situation." and he said they felt they never got that in that scene, which >> I I I kind of I kind of feel for it, but I also don't think that the scene plays poorly as it is. I actually >> No, pretty decent.

[00:54:37]>> But I do I do agree that even watching it for this podcast that >> Yeah, I it didn't take me out of the movie, but it was a little surprising that John Doe got so heated in that argument.

[00:54:53]um just because he is this insane person who is always subdued.

[00:54:59]Um but I did again like having just people talking that conversation they have in the car going out to that deserted location is really long. It's like I don't know 10 8 10 minutes long >> and like ju just to have a a a scene like that.

[00:55:25]>> Um >> I love the dialogue too like the the the lines where Brad Pitt is asking like do you know you're crazy?

[00:55:33]>> I I love that part of the conversation because earlier in the movie Somerset actually tells him like don't make the mistake of thinking this guy's crazy.

[00:55:41]He's not crazy. like this guy knows what he's doing. He's very meticulous. Like he has a mission. He has a goal or whatever. And so like for him asking him is just kind of like a all right so like I have you here. Are you actually crazy or like what? And I think it's just such a good like character moment for them both because it kind of um betrays Mills a little bit >> and then also gives John Doe a little bit of that like do you know do you think I'm crazy? like kind of that like it's just that that manipulative like force that he has >> um is just really cool to me.

[00:56:18]>> Yeah.

[00:56:20]>> H good things all around, man.

[00:56:23]>> Yeah. Yeah. I mean I just I could watch this movie over and over and over again.

[00:56:28]Yeah. I think I'm going to get the digit pack. I think I'm going to have to pass on the steelbook this time and just get the digit pack. I just can't I can't in good conscience spend that much money on >> on something because it's all resellers.

[00:56:39]It's all resellers on like eBay and and Amazon marketplace or whatever it is.

[00:56:44]>> This was the one that I got at uh Barnes & Noble.

[00:56:48]>> Nice.

[00:56:48]>> So, I was able to just >> have it in hand same day. Wow, what a concept.

[00:56:54]>> And actually, I do want to give a shout out to the Criterion um because I did not realize this, but Criterion is the source of all of the nice cool special features that we got on the Blu-ray. the commentaries, the behind the scenes stuff, the color grading process that apparently was all produced by the Criterion team for their release, their DVD release of seven and then New Line used it on the Blu-ray subsequent Blu-ray releases and luckily has kept it, it sounds like, on every single release because as far as I know, the 4K version also has the commentaries and um the the behindthe-scenes mastering special features.

[00:57:38]Um, if it doesn't, I'm going to keep my Blu-ray, but >> my understanding is that it has >> But, uh, yeah, I'm not sure all of that it has.

[00:57:50]>> And it's just the one disc, right?

[00:57:52]>> Yeah.

[00:57:53]>> Okay. So, it's not like the regular releases that have a 4K disc and then the original Blu-ray disc is kind of like, uh, and we didn't want to we didn't want to redo the special features, so here you go. Here's the old one. At least I think I mean >> check the other side.

[00:58:09]>> I know all the rest of these.

[00:58:12]Yeah, it's just the one disc.

[00:58:14]>> Okay, I'm trying to find it. There's like a hidden compartment, but no, it's just >> Yeah, I'll uh I'm I'm going to get that digit pack, but uh I will probably keep the um the Blu-ray version because I like the the Blu-ray version that I have is literally like a book. So, there's like production notes in the pages and stills and photos from the movie. I really I love when when physical media does that kind of stuff. That and Momento are two of the best like collector's editions of any kind of physical release that I've seen in a a long time. I really it really wish they still did that stuff, but I get why they're not.

[00:58:52]>> I know cuz you know back then that's all we had. So they could afford to put a little more money into the packaging, into the presentation of owning a physical copy.

[00:59:05]>> Yeah. Well, they got most of that money back. You know, it's it was it was worth the production, I think, cuz the ROI for that stuff was pretty good because people wanted to buy physical stuff. now >> now that they're not really buying physical media anymore, unfortunately, which hopefully you guys will help us change a little bit because >> I do think it's uh you know, it's important to preserve this stuff.

[00:59:26]>> Yeah, >> it's important to preserve this stuff.

[00:59:28]It's important to kind of get the intent from the filmmakers and be able to learn as much info about the making of this stuff as possible, >> especially when we're talking about stuff that's done practically like this.

[00:59:41]You know, there's a lot of >> there's a lot of newer films that rely pretty heavily on CG to do a lot of their effects and a lot of their production work for them.

[00:59:50]>> And I like the fact that that's not the case with movies like Seven.

[00:59:55]>> I can only imagine if Seven was made today that there would be so many set extensions and green screen involved, >> whereas, you know, back then David Fincher was like, "No, man. I I hate sets. I if is I I can only handle a minimal amount of sets to be built for this movie. Otherwise, I want like real locations and yeah, that authenticity shows.

[01:00:23]>> Yeah. Yeah. I do wonder that is I guess one of the things that I I'm curious about if a movie like this was made today. And I mostly like when I when I think of movies like um Seven, I kind of put it into the same or similar bucket as a movie like Saw. Even though Saw is more of like a traditional horror series, you know, thematically it has kind of the same the the same types of ideas that kind of float around it. And a lot of those ideas are really predicated on the fact of what you're seeing has to be visually repulsive, >> you know, like what the characters are going through has to be re really repulsive because it it has to kind of float that balance of like like one of the things that they said about Kevin Spacy's performance that gave him the edge over everybody else was they said that in a weird way he felt sympathetic.

[01:01:19]And that is a very very specific thing to say about a performance as like a reason why you picked it up because he's a serial killer.

[01:01:28]>> He's very, you know, like for all intents and purpose, he should not be sympathetic. But then, you know, uh, Andrew Kevin Walker talked about how the whole motivation for him writing this movie was when he first moved to New York and he would see people committing crimes just out in public and nothing nothing would really, you know, like he saw people getting mugged and the mugger would run off and nobody would try to stop them because nobody would want to get involved. And you know, if if they did call or yell for the police, it was usually the victim that was calling or yelling for police, you know, and they kind of mention it um in the scene where um I think Somerset is talking to Tracy or maybe right after he's talking to Tracy where he talks about how when they do like training, oh god, it's so gross to say this, but like training for women or like self-defense training about, you know, getting raped, you're not supposed to yell that you're getting raped.

[01:02:25]you're supposed to yell fire.

[01:02:26]>> Most people will ignore the former and, you know, won't ignore the latter because the latter might actually affect them in some way, >> right?

[01:02:35]>> So, they pay attention to it. And it's like that's that's the kind of thing that is is like the the whole underpinning of the script was that he went to New York and saw this stuff happening in in real life and he was like, "What if I made the bad guy that you'd be like, well, he's kind of right though. we do let this stuff slide, you know, like this stuff happens all around. We say how we're all about I mean, >> and not uh not to put too fine a point on it and I don't want to get political, but you know, even with what's going on in the world today, like there's so many things that you're like, we talk about how important it is for kids and and people to be honest and to be good and to be kind and to, you know, help people that are struggling and do that stuff.

[01:03:17]But then in the real world like the people that we incentivize and the the kind of the people that we uplift are the ones that are not honest like you know the lawyers that are in the movie and that talk about you know how bad of a person that lawyer is despite the fact that John Doe hires a lawyer to represent him at the end of the movie to deliver those final couple messages you know like >> so so even even with his like virtuous character that he thinks is like the good guy in all of this because he's pointing out all these sins that people are committing all the time. It's like even you gave in. So what does that say about you? You know, >> it's kind of a catch 22. And I think it's a weird reflection of our society and who we put up on pedestals and who we promote. And even, you know, in the conversation we're having, we're talking about Kevin Spacy as if none of the stuff with Kevin Spacy has happened.

[01:04:17]And whether it's, you know, I I I don't even I'm not even sure where, you know, that stuff settled. Like, cuz I know he, >> no pun intended, settled a lot of those court cases. And, you know, there was no admittance of wrongdoing, but like it's hard not to say when that many things have been divulged by people who were victims. like he's still technically in Hollywood.

[01:04:39]He's still getting hired. You know, Brad Pitt apparently went crazy on Angelina Jolie and his children and did all kinds of like super abusive nasty stuff.

[01:04:50]>> People are still watching Brad Pitt movies. We're talking about a Brad Pitt movie right now.

[01:04:54]>> Yeah.

[01:04:54]>> You know, >> is it how much are we willing to allow?

[01:05:00]And I think that's kind of like the weird that's that's the only part that I find sympathetic in in this movie and Kevin Spacy's character is that like yeah, I guess technically he is right.

[01:05:12]We do allow sin and all this bad stuff that we say is bad to happen all the time. So what does that make us?

[01:05:20]>> Mhm.

[01:05:22]>> And specifically, what does that make everybody in chat? Just kidding. Yeah, >> you guys are watching us talk about this and you're not even saying anything about it. Come on.

[01:05:37]>> Well, on that note, uh we've been going about an hour.

[01:05:42]>> Ah, yes.

[01:05:45]>> Yeah. Thank you for joining us all who joined us live. Thanks for listening to the audio only podcast. If you're listening to this on the way to work or wherever working out, uh, don't forget to join the Hidden Movie Club, substack, hidden club dot.substack.com >> to keep up on the newsletters that I send out every week. Um, which I am also dulging which movies we're watching in the future so you can keep up on that if you want to watch it beforehand as some little as a little homework assignment.

[01:06:29]Um, I don't know. Homework kind of has a negative connotation to it. So, a little pre >> that depends on who you are. I loved homework.

[01:06:40]>> Unless you're Derek.

[01:06:42]>> Yeah, unless you're me.

[01:06:45]So, so yeah. And uh we've got giveaways.

[01:06:49]>> Yeah. Speaking of, since I don't actually own the 4K version of Seven, I'm going to be purchasing uh a copy of it. Probably that Digipac. So, if you are a paid subscriber of ours on Substack, I will do a giveaway this week for a copy of Seven. If you don't have it, you have to be a paid subscriber, but I will do a giveaway. You can win a copy of Seven as well. I'll order one for you when I order mine and uh we can share in that. And then next week and after the credits, we're going to be giving away a copy of They Live, John Carpenters's They Live, because that's the movie we're watching.

[01:07:24]>> And after the credits, so um we'll also take suggestions in the comments here in the chat, in the comments on the Substack newsletters. If there's a related movie that you think Elen and I should talk about that's related to John Carpenters's They Live for Double Take, um, you know, knock that out in the comments. Give us some suggestions for movies that you love that are somehow related to They Live, either by a cast member that appears in both, a crew member that appears in both, themes that appear in both. Um, any any kind of loose connection that you can make to that. We would love to see movies that we've never seen before or revisit movies that we've watched in the past.

[01:08:02]Yeah, I've never seen They Live, so I'm excited.

[01:08:05]>> I So I'm so excited for you. It's a little I will say it's a little cheesy because, you know, it's one of those like 80s movies. It's a John Carpenter movie, but I am so so excited >> to have you watch this. I'm very, very curious what you'll think of it.

[01:08:22]>> Oh boy.

[01:08:25]>> Thanks again, folks.

[01:08:27]>> Thank you for joining us. Thank you for indulging us. Thank you for watching. We love you all.

[01:08:31]See you next time. Goodbye everybody.

[01:08:34]Bye.