Did Nolan Wells' Friends All Tell the Same Story?!

[00:00:02]This is Hidden Killers Live with Tony Bruski [music] and Robin Dream.

[00:00:09]Nolan Wells stayed behind on Horn Island on the 4th of July without water, transportation, or his phone, which had been left on a boat with his friends. 2 days later, a park ranger discovered his body in the water. The FBI is currently conducting forensics on that phone, investigating separate death threats linked to the case and maintaining that the local sheriff has jurisdiction despite the island being aided on federal land. There's lots of questions in this case. Not a lot of solid answers yet, but a lot of people who think they have solid answers based on opinions, thoughts, history, all of it. Jennifer Coffendafer is joining myself and Robin Drake, retired FBI special agent uh to discuss uh where this case is at right now and where it is headed. Jennifer, welcome. And and are you are you literally coming to us from Germany today? Is that is that accurate?

[00:01:05]>> I am in Germany and pass Germany and I'm just so glad to have you back. It was like Robin and I were trying >> Robin sucks, [laughter] >> but we now every cop pathetic.

[00:01:18]>> Well, we I'm I'm glad to be back. I'm glad to be back with everybody.

[00:01:21][laughter] I was just like, "Wow, Germany." Now, that that's that's a little trick there. Uh well, glad to have you uh on to to to dive into this case. I've been been following uh your tweets, been following everybody's uh reporting on this for the the last several weeks when I've been gone. Um, one of the big things on this that that seems to stand out, uh, is is the Snapchat. That's a big thing that that is being talked about. Um, and I think it's important to contextualize it. Uh, the family reports that Nolan's accounts were wiped clean. That that has not been confirmed by Snapchat or any authorities. That's coming from the family. I I don't have any reason to disbelieve it, but it is a a pretty a pretty big piece if in fact the accounts were wiped or was there just nothing ever put on the account to begin with on an island that doesn't have cell service? It's a it's a fair question. It suggests a potential cover up and a lot of people are putting their chips in in that basket. How heavily does the depth of this investigation depend on that accusation alone being true? Jen, >> we may have lost her.

[00:02:36]>> We may have lost her in Germany already.

[00:02:39]>> Robin, I'll go to you. What do you think?

[00:02:42]>> Um, how much is the depth of the of the everything [laughter] >> of that of that that single? I mean, obviously there there's public indictment that's going on here. Uh but but I'm I'm I'm curious and obviously there's a lot of things being being pulled, a lot of levers being uh pulled here to to investigate this. But but that is that is a big one. I mean if if in fact if in fact they get this the phone back or or Snapchat uh re responds back and they say uh yeah uh looks like this thing was uh was wiped and it wasn't just there was no activity. I mean, if there's no activity, that's how you the phone was on the boat and nobody was using Snapchat. Um, that that could be a possible explanation. But if it in fact does show >> somebody went onto the account and deleted it or deleted the posts, I mean, what what does that say? What does what does that mean for the investigation? If it's a big if, I'm saying that.

[00:03:38]>> Yeah, exactly. And we talked about it yesterday, you know, when we were talking about with uh with Eric, you know, what it would take to kind of elevate this investigation to probable cause on things, right? And go before judges to get subpoenas. And that would be one of them definitely because I think what what what you do as an investigator and what Jen and I did throughout our career is you start with the laws of probability as I always do in cases like we did yesterday. I look at the research. I look at the number of riptide drownings compared to number of deaths by homicide in areas like this.

[00:04:08]And so you just start with a general idea and then you start drilling down and you take in all the data um from the investigation, the forensics and also from what the family is saying. You know, the the now the family and individuals, not this family in particular, but any family that is really close to an individual, they're going to have their own confirmation biases of what they're looking for, of what they think might have happened. And you look at all that because that gives you something to look at, examine. And in this case, if they say Snapchat should be there, but it's missing. What it does say is like, all right, look here to see if there's a wobble, as I always say. And if there's a wobble, well, then that might be something to drill deeper on. And if you see a wobble or a deviation from what you're expecting, that's something you can now bring before a judge and do a deeper dive, a deeper research. Now you can start serving subpoenas to see if there's more there. But if you're not seeing one, it's all copacetic. Other words, if the baseline remains consistent, that things weren't deleted here, they're not deleted here. Stories are somewhat consistent, but inconsistencies that are commensurate to the level of potential intoxicants that were being used, you know, so that's what they're assessing in all these things.

[00:05:15]>> Jen, what do you think? If if this Snapchat does turn out to truly be have material deleted off it, if there's things on his phone that were deleted, what does that mean for the investigation?

[00:05:27]First of all, this is just it's BS. I'm going to get this out here since my Wi-Fi is all in and out. I'm going to cut down to nuts and bolts here.

[00:05:35]>> We're getting super spicy, Jen, today.

[00:05:37]Super spicy, Jen.

[00:05:39]>> Snapchats come and then they go. That is the whole thing about Snapchats. You're not supposed to be able to see them.

[00:05:45]Number one. Number two, I've been on these raftups. These raftups are insane.

[00:05:50]I lived in the Virgin Islands for years.

[00:05:52]You go out, it's melee, it's partying, it's people all over the place. No one has their phone. This is the [snorts] where people don't care about their phones. Teenagers don't care about their phones. They're very engaged. They leave the phones on the boat because their $1,300 umbilical cord to the world is not going to be risked. And plus, they got a drink in one hand. They're commiserating with the other. They're not going to have it in the water. He's not doing stories also because guess what? He's a football player hoping for a scholarship. The number one thing and I've had two kids recruited, one being recruited now and one that was recruited. You do not show underage drinking. So period into story, the Snapchat is all BS.

[00:06:40]>> Fair points on that too on the recruiting angle of it. Very fair points. And and is there a lot I mean are we seeing just a lot of uh uh assumptions being made by the adults in the room of of how they think their child would have been acting at that moment in time that because they're because on land he's on his phone all the time. I mean and so I I get it. I get where they're coming from. His his pattern of behavior is using Snapchat a lot but maybe not specifically in this situation. Um is is that what we're looking at? And then that that because it's a deviation from on land, but you also have to consider the setting to which it was at that that that is not going on and and they're desperately searching for answers that because there's nothing there that's being translated into something nefarious when maybe it's a very simple explanation. I my question would be did anybody else have Snapchat rocking on that beach that day? And if they didn't, well then he's kind of in line with everybody else. But I I don't know the answer to that question.

[00:07:42]>> Well, one of the things too is is all the they said all the phones were left on the boat. So actually that's congruent. In other words, it wasn't just it wasn't just his that was left on the boat. All of them to Jen's point. So you have a baseline of behavior of the people on that island. And to your point then to Tony, it's not just what the family saw behind the scenes when he's on land. And but you know that's why people put things out there so you can investigate it so investigators know what to look at. But it those are baseline behaviors though that look pretty congruent. Jen, sorry.

[00:08:13]>> Is Jen there? Jen frozen.

[00:08:15]>> She froze looking at me frozen. I think she's frozen. She She looks like she's there, but she's not. It's like we thinking >> she's a mannequin every now and then.

[00:08:23]And then when when we say the magic words, hocus pocus, Alamagokus, she comes back alive. There's five of you who remember today's special from the 1970s and ' 80s and know exactly what I'm talking about. uh behind the scenes, Robin. I mean, what do you the the FBI is involved in this to some capacity? Um is it limited to Nolan's phone or or does the FBI have jurisdiction to examine the devices of everyone involved here even before uh or or if this is officially classified as a crime? and if and when they obtain those devices. I mean, what what would be their primary focus, you think, to be to be looking for on those devices of of other folks other other than just uh Nolan himself?

[00:09:08]>> So, they're going to have access as much as access is allowed by the individual they're interviewing because So, here I am. I'm out there. I'm conducting investigation as an FBI agent. I'm going to be interviewing everyone I possibly can and writing it up. And part of that interview is, "Hey, do you mind if I have access to your phone? Can I look at your phone? And then I'm going to be looking at the text messages. I'm going to be looking at searches. I'm going to be looking for and establishing a baseline. In other words, I'm not looking for anything in particular at first. What I'm looking for is what is a normal day looking like? So, here's what I'm going to do is probably me. I'm going to ask them, "Have you ever been out to this island before?" Oh, you have? Can I see your phone from that time period? Because what I want to do is I want to establish like, all right, if if I've talked to a bunch of people that have been out to Horn Island before, I want to see what that past experience was like when something didn't go wrong. And I'm going to establish a baseline of how they communicated, Snapchats they did do or didn't do. I'm going to look at the patterns of behavior in this one time frame. I'm then going to then superimpose it to all right, now let's let's bring it up to the present. What was different this time around? Whether it's through the interview and then also through digital forensics. and I'm going to ask them permission to see all those types of things because they say they're being compliant and and open with it and but I also know they enlisted lawyers that we talked about yesterday. So, it's really going to depend on the amount of transparency they feel safe having. But, at the very least, that's what I'm doing as an investigator. I'm going to establish a pattern behavior from past times, whether it's from them or others when they visit Horn Island, and then superimpose it over this time and see if there's a wobble in there anywhere that could have involved him. Jen, if you're investigating this, let me ask you first. What sort of authority does the FBI have at this point to look at friends phones uh of any sort of depth?

[00:10:50]And and if they are, when they are, what are you looking for first on the Friends devices?

[00:10:55]>> Well, the FBI has authority if granted by these individuals because the problem is there is no probable cause to look at these phones right now. There just isn't. I was thinking, how am I going to write this affidavit? They can't write an affidavit showing there's probable cause that these people were involved in nefarious crimes that that they were hiding it and that the phone could, you know, harbor indicate the crimes. I can't do that. But all everyone's cooperating. There is no information that none of these kids and their families are cooperating despite what Al Sharpton and others are doing. Trying to really quash that in a sense by starting to fingerpoint. And you asked this earlier and I know my Wi-Fi went out but I heard you ask it and that was >> Jen what's really happening here and what I see is people ignoring facts and putting in their truths >> what they think for a narrative not that they're supported by a factual basis but basically uh what I want to get is consent searches for each of these phones and I want to look and and that's what's going to happen. Uh what I mean it's consent searches right now and I okay but in something like this I mean cross the tees dot the eyes and if if you if there's nothing going on great it would be in the interest if there's nothing going on of everyone in theory you would think to to turn over the devices and say here take a look so so so the truth can come out there's there's nothing found here um but there's tremendous public pressure right now going on as we know this has already become such a polarized case where one side is screaming it's this one side is screaming it's not this um we neither side has facts neither side knows truth nobody knows exactly what happened yet but we're all people have their confirmation bias on both ends of this um how dangerous is is the confirmation bias right now for folks who who may have a device that really have there's nothing suspicious on it but they don't want their name somehow ending up in the ether of this to to end up popping up on somebody's social media and then be targeted for for having been involved in something nefarious when they're just like, I just want to help. I just want to show you what's on my phone and I got nothing going on. But they're too scared to do that because of the vitriol that's going on right now.

[00:13:20]>> Well, a couple of things. First of all, I would argue that there are facts and evidence. We already have witness statements out there.

[00:13:28]>> Okay? We already know that a auto autopsy has been performed and that individuals involved in this investigation have at least those preliminary results. Uh if you are the detective or case agent on this case, you are literally sitting there as it's being performed and you are already being told yes there was water in the lungs. Thus we know it's a drowning. We don't see any signs of blunt force trauma. We don't see any peticia. We don't see any signs of strangulation.

[00:13:56]They have already been told that that is what happens in the autopsy room.

[00:14:00]>> So law enforcement, that is why I believe they came out initially and said, "Listen, >> this looks like an accident. It does not look like there's anything nefarious."

[00:14:10]We also don't have any witnesses saying there was some sort of fight, some sort of struggle, anything bad occurred on that boat. In fact, we have the opposite. We have the NBC footage where they're specifically talking about their BGE isn't working and they're getting water on their boat, so they want to head back. I mean, there's a lot of facts out here, but people don't like the facts they're seeing.

[00:14:34]>> Yeah, I agree.

[00:14:35]>> Yeah. From especially when when I heard that new audio come out about the boat sinking. Um, again, it's just more confirmation, good data on the initial story that was told. Actually, a little bit more than I thought it was even going to be. Um, so yeah, but but to your point, people are trying to fill in gaps for a narrative they're trying to keep creating. Um, but so far, again, always living in the world of maybe when you do an investigation because something could pop up to shift it one way or the other, but all the data so far is lining up with a horrendous tragic incident. so far.

[00:15:07]>> I mean, I want to follow it wherever it may go and and and and I think that's the important thing and not to go this way or that way because and and and these are the facts that we know as of right now given that there were hundreds of people on the beach. You have a boat full of friends. Um, you know, a conspiracy doesn't really work very well or a cover up doesn't work very well when you have more than one person involved. Uh, a bunch of drunk teenagers. Uh, again, that's some conjecture there. I can't prove they were drinking. I don't know if they were drinking. Let's just make the assumption that there was probably drinking involved. Uh so we'll we'll work from that as a a baseline. Uh some were, some were probably not. Who the hell knows?

[00:15:47]Uh but you have people, lots of them. um when you have that many people that that would have seen something if they saw something, how confident are you that that the the truth will surface here and if there is anything nefarious that that would also surface being the truth if it's nefarious there's people who will talk. They're not just going to be like, "Oh, okay everybody, let's make this packed and we're never going to say anything about somebody killing our good friend. That this doesn't make any sense." um with with the fact that there's so many people involved, does it make it so much more how how how difficult does it make it for a cover up to even exist this far in? We're like 2 weeks after this happened at this point.

[00:16:34]>> Well, the more people you have involved, the more people, the more witnesses, the less likely you're going to get a cover cover up because it starts involving so many witnesses, so many individuals to be a part of it. And the bottom line is what in the world would be the motive?

[00:16:51]>> These were all friends. They didn't see color. I mean, they saw buddies >> and they went out on a Fourth of July trip. There was nothing. No information is surfaced. Robin talks a lot about leakage. There's zero leakage about some sort of let's get the the black guy on the boat. There's nothing like that. And it's it's really sad to see the spin that you see on this. I would also ask audience watchers, have you ever been in a rip tide?

[00:17:24]>> Have you ever been >> I came up the velocity there is big. I came up with the velocity of it yesterday that typically in that area because it's a uh it's about 12 miles offshore. Was it 10 12 miles offshore the rip tides through there are t typically a lot faster than many other places uh when the tide's going out. It is what is it? What I say? say 12 feet per per minute.

[00:17:43]>> It's high.

[00:17:45]>> Yeah. I mean, anyone who's never been in a rip tide has no idea what they're talking about because and and and I find it interesting, you know, some of the arguments that are being made of like he was an athlete. He was like, I don't care if you're Jesus. I don't care if you're Superman. Uh if you get caught in that rip tide and you're a human being, uh you're going with the rip tide. There ain't no going back from that. And that's a scary scary thing. And drownings, and I've said this a thousand times, too. THEY'RE NOT ALWAYS, "OH MY GOD, HE'S OUT THERE DROWNING." IT'S MORE LIKE you're having a drink over here.

[00:18:18]It's like, "Anybody seen Nolan?" And and that's that's how drownings tend to happen. Nolan's phone. Go ahead, Robin.

[00:18:26]>> Yeah. And that's when they actually really do happen too because all the stats on it when you combine the alcohol with the riptide that is a that is always the one that is a precursor for bad things happening in all the cases.

[00:18:40]>> His his phone was only uh retrieved after his his mother checked life 360.

[00:18:45]The allegations regarding the snap the Snapchat data come from there. Um, you also have uh other other little pieces here and there of the story that have uh come out. Um, are are there innocent explanations for for the events uh that that have come up here that have somewhat been conflicting? The boy saying he was uh going to stay with the girl. The girl says he was going uh with the boys. Um, are are all of these Yes, they may be conflicting to a certain extent, but are they explainable with teenagers, alcohol, and being on a boat?

[00:19:23]>> Yeah, absolutely. And they can both be true at the same time. You could try to be picking up a girl and the girl says, "Yeah, I'm not interested." And the guy says, "Okay, I'm headed off with the boys."

[00:19:34]>> Or the guy said, "I'm headed off with the boys." And and then tried to pick up the girl. I mean, it it's not that anyone's lying. It's just that they're happening at different times. And again, as you point out, we've got alcohol involved. You know, they're young, they're teenagers. These events are absolute fun. They are party events. And to say, "Hey, I'm going to catch a ride back with the others because I'm kind of scoping out this girl is so typical in these settings."

[00:20:02]>> Yeah. Yeah. And I just looked it up. Um, typical in this area, the rip tides can go from 1 to 2 feet per second all the way up to 8 feet per second. And that equates to about 5 m an hour plus which is faster than than almost any human being can swim. Um so that's how fast those riptides are because that's what part of the the theory is that what's going on.

[00:20:22]>> They are scary. They are deadly. Um I was in one several years ago and it was scary as [ __ ] And it was little Harper who had a uh was on a a an inflatable that was able to get over to me. This is in Hawaii. And and and I was able to grab onto it and and get me out. And I I was just right there in the water. I was trying to get a sea urchin. Actually, [laughter] I was diving down. I kept trying to like, "Oh, I'll get it." Then I dive back down and I'm like, I'm not in nearly the same place I was 2 minutes ago. And and I didn't even realize how it had pulled me out so far. It's a scary scary thing. We'll of course continue to cover this wherever it may go. And the reality is there all the answers are not in yet. So it it's we're not going to fill in blanks here or there for this narrative or that narrative. We're going to keep following the facts and we're going to keep bringing them to you right here. Your thoughts in the comments section on Substack and YouTube as we continue our conversations. Want more on this case and others? [music] Then press subscribe now and don't miss a moment of true crime coverage from Tony [music] Brussi and the Hidden Killers podcast.