STANDING COMMITTEE ON GOVERNMENT ASSURANCES_05/06/26

Hinzugefügt: 2026-06-08

[00:02:50]Government Asurances, Higher Education, Secretariat Thank you very much.

[00:04:26]Thomas left.

[00:05:21]Um, foreign.

[00:05:39]Thank you.

[00:05:54]the deputy director of parliamentary services department.

[00:05:58]Thank you.

[00:06:00]>> Good morning, chair. Names for the record are for the office of the parliamentary council. Thank you.

[00:06:21]Thank you. Thank you.

[00:06:39]education.

[00:06:55]Oh, sorry. To introduce my team, let me start with myself. My name is Richard Tavulawa. I'm the permanent secretary uh in the Ministry of Higher Education.

[00:07:07]And with me I [clears throat] have uh my deputies and on my immediate left I have Real uh who is the deputy permanent secretary responsible for corporate services and next to him is professor Jia is the deputy per secretary responsible for TVET and on the extreme left we have May Mala uh she is the acting deputy permanent secretary responsible for high education and training and uh as [clears throat] you suggested chair I'll request uh members of my team who are basically big benches there to introduce themselves and I'll introduce you She is the acting director TV. No, sorry, not Tet D.

[00:08:22]And next to him, K Rapo is the acting director teacher training and technical education and teacher training and uh Kaki Remi he's the acting director department of skills development.

[00:08:50]In Chagalisan H she is the legal advisor in the ministry and then we have Gladiula. She is the transformation coordinator.

[00:09:05]I think that's about it.

[00:09:06]>> Thank you. Thank you very much through the minister.

[00:09:49]Administration of oath.

[00:10:18]Okay. Thank you. Thank you.

[00:10:30]Okay.

[00:10:34]specific.

[00:11:00]Hello.

[00:11:05]Yes.

[00:11:26]the Yes.

[00:12:26]I >> do truly >> do truly >> affirm and declare that >> affirm and declare that >> the evidence I shall give >> the evidence I shall give >> before this committee of parliament >> before this committee of parliament >> shall be the truth >> shall be The truth.

[00:12:50]>> The truth. And nothing else.

[00:12:52]>> The truth and nothing else.

[00:12:54]>> But the truth.

[00:12:55]>> But the truth.

[00:12:55]>> Thank you.

[00:12:56]>> Thank you.

[00:12:57]>> Thank you, sir.

[00:13:08]>> [laughter] >> Iana >> do hereby >> do hereby >> swear that >> swear that >> the evidence I shall give >> the evidence that I shall give >> before this committee >> before this committee >> shall be the truth >> shall be the truth >> the whole truth >> the whole truth >> and nothing else >> and nothing else >> but the truth >> but the truth >> so help me God. So help me God.

[00:13:35]>> Thank you. Thank you.

[00:13:46]I >> I agreement >> do hereby swear >> do hereby swear >> that the evidence I shall give >> that the evidence I shall give >> before this committee >> before this committee >> shall be the truth >> shall be the truth >> the whole truth >> the whole truth >> and nothing else but the truth >> and nothing else but the truth So help me God.

[00:14:13]>> So help me God.

[00:14:14]>> Thank you.

[00:14:35]I >> I Yolinda Balra >> do hereby swear that >> do hereby swear that >> the evidence I shall give before this committee >> the evidence that I shall give before this committee >> shall be the truth >> shall be the truth >> the whole truth >> the whole truth >> and nothing else but the truth >> and nothing else but the truth.

[00:14:56]>> So help me God.

[00:14:57]>> So help me God.

[00:15:01]>> Thank you very much.

[00:15:14]Executive summary.

[00:15:24]>> [clears throat] >> Assurance.

[00:15:46]Assurance. Florence summary, then we'll bring it back to to the next session. I only giving you 10 minutes. Thank you sir.

[00:16:37]Okay. Thank you. Thank you honorable chair. Um I will uh take the uh the executive summary as read uh even though I'm going to read through uh what I have uh here.

[00:16:55]Uh [clears throat] Mr. Chairman, the Ministry of Education is mandated to provide policy direction, regulatory oversight, coordination of the tertiary education and skills development sector.

[00:17:07]Central to this mandate is the development of a skilled, innovative and globally competitive workforce that support supports Botswana's transition to a diversified and knowledge based economy through human capital development, skills transformation and alignment of education outcomes with labor market demands. The establishment of the Mi ministry reflects a strategic shift to provide focused leadership on postsecary education, skills development, research and innovation in support of national development priorities including the Bhutan economic transformation programs and vision 2036.

[00:17:49]Mr. Chairman, the portfolio's responsibilities amongst others are skills development and technical vocational education, education sector strategic development, implementation and coordination, education curriculum standards development, educ and education planning and development.

[00:18:11]The ministry continues to align its programs and reforms with national priorities particularly the Bhutana transformation economic sorry economic transformation program which seeks to drive economic diversification enhance productivity and create sustainable employment. In this regard the ministry's interventions are focused on strengthening human capital development as a key enabler uh of economic transformation.

[00:18:39]>> [clears throat] >> We have made some achievements over over time and uh some of the key achievements that we've uh we have made include the expansion of access to tertiary education through student sponsorship programs which are administered through the department of tertiary education financing DTE and a major achievement under DTE has been the expansion of access to post secondary education up to first degree level and where required ired up to post-graduate uh level for professions that require advanced qualifications and break for practice for example psychology as 21st April 2026 total tertiary enrollment stood at 42,223 students comprising 41,311 local students which constitutes 98% of which 28,515 15 which is 69% are in public institutions and 12,83 which is 31% are in private institutions and 9005 external students and they constitute only 2%. Now this reflects continued government commitment to widening access to tertiary education while balancing public and private sector participation in skills development.

[00:20:04]The ministry further implemented student support and allowance reforms at improving student welfare uh learning conditions and we adopted a gradual approach uh to this exercise. We had two phases. We had phase one. The first critical intervention in this phase was alignment of allowances for brigade students with those of other ti education institutions. And this was implemented in 20 in August 2025.

[00:20:33]Phase two, it was April 2026 this year where the ministry concluded its latest [clears throat] policy review approving significant increase in student living allowances. So with the effect from the 1st of May 2026, a 14% 14.6% 6% incre in increase uh was made on the students allowances raising them from uh 1.9 uh to 2.2.

[00:21:05]Now the ministry also enhances quality assurance and accreditation processes in collaboration with the Bswana qualifications authority and improves alignment of education and training programs with labor market needs uh through the human resource development council. Now these efforts contribute directly to the BTP to the BP uh objectives by ensuring availability of relevant skills required in priority areas such as mining, energy, agriculture, digital economy and services.

[00:21:44]Um the furthermore the ministry advanced reforms um namely high education act and tate policy aimed at strengthening technical and vocational education and training uh promoting research and innovation and enhancing institutional capacity. Now these initiatives are aligned to the beta pillars that emphasize industrialization, private sector growth and increased citizen participation and the ministry continues to foster collaboration with key stakeholders to improve quality of education and alignment of graduate skills with the labor market needs. These partnerships are deemed very important by the ministry. Without their participation, we cannot deliver on the mandate that the ministry has been assigned. Now, Moheay also strength strengthened academia industry collaboration with stakeholder forums, university industry partnerships and the launch of the 2025 national tertiary tertiary road show which focus on promoting skills relevance, innovation, entrepreneurship and so forth. [clears throat] In advancing research and innovation, the ministry supported strategic initiatives at the Bhutan International University of Science and Technology Bu including the launching of the B set one satellite project which marked a major milestone in Botswana space science and technology development efforts promoting research and commercialization.

[00:23:15]Uh the ministry has also intensifies stakeholder engagement through nationwide visit by the honorable minister to education institutions where engagements were held with student represented councils by meeting with SRC presidents by annually executive boards of institutions institutional management departments and state-owned enterprises under the ministry. This engagement and strengthened collaboration, accountability and responsiveness, governance and account and accountability have been significantly strengthened through the signing of shareholder compacts uh with stateowned enterprises, appointment of qualified board members and implementation of performance contracts uh for senior management. We have also re resuscitated the high the sub high level consultative committee meetings and performance review sessions. Uh all these have been institutionalized.

[00:24:17]That said, we still face challenges and I want to touch on some of those challenges and the interventions that we have put in place.

[00:24:41]Thank you.

[00:24:45][laughter] We have challenges now.

[00:24:59]Notwithstanding the progress made, we have several challenges.

[00:25:11][clears throat] Sponsorship administration.

[00:25:17]uh these challenges have implications for effective delivery of ministry mandate and uh they limit the realization of BTP objectives if not adequately addressed.

[00:25:30]The ministry faces a range of interrelated challenges that affective delivery of its mandate and one of those challenges is inadequate financial resources to support student sponsorship.

[00:26:01]2.2.5 the facilities, infrastructure.

[00:26:23]The ministry also continues to face infrastructure and capacity constraints.

[00:26:30]class.

[00:26:48]Now, digital transformations remains another critical area of concern. Some institutions still face challenges related to weak ICT infrastructure uh and internet connectivity.

[00:27:02]Uh [clears throat] a major challenge mismatch between graduate skills and the labor market needs and uh we end up with unemployment and it's unemployment that is not structural but is because there's this mismatch between the demand side and the supply side. Now quality assurance compliance across tary institutions also requires continuous strengthening to ensure consistent academic standards and instit institutional accountability.

[00:27:56]What interventions are we putting in place?

[00:28:03]The ministry acknowledges these challenges and has undertaken corrective measures to strengthen government's financial management and sector performance.

[00:28:12]These include the enhancements of internal control, standardization of reporting processes and so forth. Uh the alignment with BP the ministry is also prioritizing digit digitization of systems and introduction of performance-based funding. Now going forward the ministry will intensify implementation of targeting interventions at improving efficiency, accountability and outcomes.

[00:28:40]Now I would want to touch on the resource uh human resource context.

[00:28:47][clears throat] Minister 2024 November 2024 establishment ministry 400 4,118 officers and this covers uh institutions across the three uh departments that we have uh read the administrative department their tertiary education financing did have now following the consolid consolidation of departments during the government rationalization exercise in 2024 several longstanding human resource management challenges have emerged during the transition period litigation one of them is litigation stemming from disparities and allowances and inconsistencies in the implementation of conditions of service And these are legacy issues.

[00:30:04]shortages of staff accommodation and student housing, general man power shortage to support institutional uh uh growth and I think this is a problem across the public sector.

[00:30:17]Now the changing education landscape has necessitated an adaptive approach from ministry leadership. A strategic pivot towards promoting TIVET has required rigorous operational adjustments and consultations.

[00:30:32]Consequently, comprehensive institutional capacity assessments are required to ensure resource adequacy.

[00:30:38]Furthermore, as indicated, the ministry is addressing legacy employee welfare issues alongside implementing revised human resource policies to guide operations. A pertinent example includes the restructuring and reassignment of catering personnel deemed redundant due to adjustment in student allowance structures.

[00:31:01]As an example, 300 to 1.9 The ministry deeply values its ongoing collaboration with public sector unions and remains committed to fostering constructive engagement on matters affecting the workforce and the broader education sector. Other issues such as career stagnation and the lack of capacity building are being addressed with the agency and care required to ensure seamless transition for a very long time for 18 years.

[00:32:09]I hope is a genuine concern.

[00:32:18]We are busy trying to address those and see how we can uh get people uh moving uh within the established structures. So in conclusion uh chair the ministry remains committed to strengthening governance, improving financial discipline and ensuring value for money. Ongoing reforms are expected to improve sustainability, accountability and service delivery. And just to mention these ongoing reforms, thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

[00:33:03]Honorable lack of parity.

[00:33:36]foristent retrospective application.

[00:34:01]Some senior lecturers years.

[00:34:11]compress university.

[00:34:36]Thank you honorable allowance.

[00:35:07]For instance, we are sitting at 2.2 Maybe 2.5 mismatch of skills contributed to unemployment.

[00:35:37]And I tend to differ with you.

[00:35:40]Don't you think the main issue is not a a mismatch form you unable to employ teachers rather on a temporary basis.

[00:36:24]Thank you.

[00:36:36]Thank you.

[00:36:40]>> [clears throat] >> um UB salaries and all that.

[00:37:03][clears throat] And I would like Just go a little bit background just to demonstrate why the salaries uh you would appreciate or these institutions are creatures of statute.

[00:37:26]uh each one of them has its own act.

[00:37:30]And uh so the governing body in other words as it is right now we can not claim we have a system of high education because each one of these institutions is a separate disparate entity.

[00:37:53]So standardized in the system. So the salaries are bound to differ. So what we are working on now to address that problem is to come up with a higher education act which should lead to the repealing of all existing external universities or operate act one and that act will then enable us to standardize certain practices including salaries promot promotions even appointments standardize you and I think that's the time when we'll be able to um h try to to standardize salaries because there's no reason why a professor should be different from a professor and a professor abuse even in terms of the promotions there's no reason why you should have a professor professor professor professor when we are such a small system we must have a single definition of what a professor is and you can only attain mean that by making sure we have standard practice or standardized practices across institutions and only a unitary act education can help us deliver that uh on the rituals. Yes, we are aware H when uh UB was restructuring uh they uh decided uh or they will apply new criteria or the new criteria promotion and appointment of staff uh through this exercise. In other words, uh in 2020, basically in 2019, the university approved a new criteria for promotion and appointment of staff and those criteria were implemented in 20 January 2020.

[00:40:10]So most of the people who were or many of the people who were promoted holding position st professor and so forth were promoted Babi were promoted before the implementation of this uh this new criteria in 2020.

[00:40:29]So when the university restructured they decided hi uh through the invocation of uh I think the section 25 of the employment act they are going to rehire on the academic side and that rehiring meant you have to satisfied to satisfy the extent uh uh criteria for appointment and and promotion in other words the latest criteria. So what they decided was to subject m to uh to that at only on the academic side to those criteria and you could imagine those criteria are more stringent than the ones before 2020. So some of them don't satisfy the the criteria and that led to the demotion in rank even though the salaries remained protected.

[00:41:40]So that is the background.

[00:41:44]Now at the moment uh only professor Sabub SQ I think the question honorable is do we believe now that UB has enough professors to qualify as a university?

[00:41:58]Yes. H I think well there are no at the moment there are no standards and I'm not aware of any prescriber so many professors I know at some point they were working on that but I know that processes was halted at some point but at the moment there is there is none what now exists recently what we call norms and standards for the registration of universities and so forth.

[00:42:45]PhD and so forth but no prescription only number of uh senior lecturers professors and so forth uh that must be in place for it to be recognized as a university.

[00:42:58]Now [clears throat] honorable furniture student allowances I do agree entirely with you and I think that is the approach we have adopted the faced in approach given the financial constraints that we all aware of once because these kids needs to be assisted until we reach that 2.5 we have adopted that phase in approach.

[00:43:37]So are going to be facing in this if Madana can nothing miraculously we would just give them to 2.5 W but the realistic situation we have is that you know we don't have that that money so we'll keep seeing 100 until we reach the 2.5 uh this mismatch uh I entirely agree with you uh youth unemployment ment is not just a function of one factor. It's not just a function of the supply side, the education system. It is also a function of uh the demand side which is industry uh and so forth. In other words, industry must create uh jobs to absorb these graduates.

[00:44:31]uh and as we are aware uh to that globally uh the industry I can't say it's not performing industry is not per it's performing well it's only that there have been structural changes industry is use of technology and so forth which has led to uh youth unemployment but it's a way two-way uh process skills also lead to employment through entrepreneurship programs where you know you people create jobs for themselves and for others.

[00:45:12]Uh but we should appreciate uh the mismatch in the context.

[00:45:21]Um particularly we have you know areas like climbing carpentry so many these are dominated by people from outside the country.

[00:45:42]Why is because we don't have enough or what we have is not good enough. So that's a unemployment along is is is created by the supply side not necessarily by lack of jobs. the jobs are there and people can create their own jobs but if they don't have the skills or the skills that they have are not relevant then you will have youth unemployment so it's really a two-way process the two are in relationally interdependent you can't just look at one and ignore the other >> thank you thank you PS honorable 4,000 stuff.

[00:46:43]>> Yes.

[00:46:51]For many, many years.

[00:47:01]Creation of new higher positions.

[00:47:26]stagnation.

[00:47:46]They will gradually um provide subs and and The final one, the graduates from private universities.

[00:48:42]Thank you, honorable Mr. Chairman.

[00:48:52]Minister against God.

[00:49:35]by the guy for three.

[00:49:52]Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

[00:50:28]Thank you.

[00:50:33]Honorable 4,118, you know, leads to stagnation.

[00:51:01]particular gra [clears throat] I'm not a human resource personally that I know the structure is pyramid uh which means and this is a structure across the public sector.

[00:51:33]uh it's inevitable that people will crowd that and um that crowding obviously will be compounded uh by the fact you can't create new positions even though you can't create new positions and if upward mobility is limited because of the nature of the structure uh of the of the system. Um that crowd in Kotasi is inevitable. The stagnation is inevitable somehow. Uh obviously it's not a desirable situation but it's what it is. And I think we must also understand even this lack of expansion they can come in and help. But you must als we must also appreciate.

[00:52:37]I think the country is also under pressure not only internally but also externally uh to limit the size of the public sector and I think we are all aware of the annual visits that are made by YMF World Bank and so forth and their prescriptions are very standard they will tell you down don't increase the number of in the public sector and so forth. So these are some of the dynamics that lead into this situation that we we find ourselves that is allowed it is allowed in the next 10 minutes. Thank you very much. I think defense structure.

[00:53:43]It will allow that one will address.

[00:53:59]Thank you.

[00:54:03]The second one that is talking about generation of third stream income which will lead to universities lessening their dependence uh on uh the subention from from the state.

[00:54:28]Honorable universities have utiliz whatever resources or facilities they have at their disposal to generate income to be honest to generate income but we want them to intensify uh those efforts.

[00:54:56]research is also one area you know generate that income through the overheads that um that are that acrew from from the research grants and so forth. So we're encouraging our institutions to h to develop the habit of uh of uh of attracting research grants uh internationally so that balcony will generate their income and so forth eventually they must lessen their dependence on government because it's not sustainable the situation as it is even though that is desirable that the state must provide h you know for for for these institutions But they must also make an attempt to to lessen their dependence on government and efforts are being made by the ministry uh in that direction.

[00:55:48]um graduates at private universities.

[00:55:52]Ah, this one is very difficult because the market determines and the signals from the market might be a signal from the market.

[00:56:15]There's something that for those universities are not doing or what they are providing is not what the market needs and uh we cannot there's no way we can intervene uh in that market except by edging these institutions to make sure that what they produce is relevant to the needs of the market through what tracer studies and so forth and and all that.

[00:56:42]Um [clears throat] uh regarding uh honorable Morong's um uh questions.

[00:56:52]Yes, we are aware to across the country our brigades or institutions have plenty of land and uh is land that should be utilized.

[00:57:06]uh but I'm happy to say that under the BP we have earmarked 49% of our budget uh to the revitalization of TET and that means uh expansion that means maintenance of existing uh facilities in the brigades curriculum modernization um staff capacitation uh and all that. So uh we are also uh busy enticing uh the private sector to participate in that space. It it means them coming to set up uh structures within our existing institutions. We have cases at the moment that we are handling where we are working with industry some structures within these institutions you know and so forth. So that is what we're encouraging uh hopefully uh through those efforts uh the available land mo uh brigade uh will be utilized along those lines but yes we are aware the land is there and uh it needs to be utilized but things as things stand now to be honest with you I'm not sure we are in a position to put up new structures because we don't have the money but we can invite those who want to participate in the TV that space to come and do that and the response I should say is very encouraging from industry.

[00:58:57]uh courses removed uh again here I'm not aware uh and my colleagues are here they will help uh and what happens to staff when courses are no longer offered and you gave the example of blaming >> and carpentry >> it's carpentry not blaming oh okay I think I can uh I can defer to my to my colleagues for for a response on this Right. Uh thank you chair and uh the house. Um let me touch on the one um uh the the the land and then I'll get to the one on the lecturers.

[00:59:48]Uh we are aware honorable that uh there is plenty of land especially in your constituency and um there have also been a lot of proposals from the business fraternity and others uh to the effect that they want to move for instance the cadmium brigade from where it is right now to a bigger space.

[01:00:16]So those considerations some of them they have been there for the longest time but now where we are we are looking at those proposals and in due course uh the honorable minister will visit those brigades for the purposes of also getting to appreciate uh the land and then we we make a decision as to how we can utilize the land lecturer Um that that is quite true.

[01:00:50]You know they have been moved around when certain programs were moved and I think an example at hand and I must indicate lectur but also like the PS said earlier on.

[01:01:14]So when we talk revitalization that what it means You might realize now demand is high. So we have to make sure we reconfigure our map and make sure we give constituencies that which they think is a necessary you know skill under our clustering model. Thank you chair.

[01:02:13]Oh y hello chair the question that you you post let me say uh I don't have a response to that it's a quite a technical one and uh I'm not sure where my colleagues may come in but I'm not sure if I was prepared for it.

[01:02:37]>> Yes. Thank you Pierce and thank you chair. Um I think the board set one I think the the biggest gain now we have our satellite which is a a good thing uh it's rotating around you know you know I think they said six times a day or something like that but where we are now in terms of the B said one kore they are now trying to uh Procure a system.

[01:03:11]Now we can harvest pictures.

[01:03:15]They are coming from the satellite.

[01:03:17]Which pictures then the scientist will utilize planning. What exactly can we do in terms of the pictures we are looking at delta and what are some of the things with those pictures in place we can do.

[01:03:35]So where we are the the the p the data is there is being captured but the harvesting of pictures is where we are not yet and that is what they are working on. So that will be my submission.

[01:03:49]Thank you.

[01:04:12]information.

[01:04:18]Correct. Thank you.

[01:04:26]Government assurance.

[01:05:02]Parliament.

[01:05:54]firstand information. So, 2014 to 2019 to 2024.

[01:06:24]and take question number 56.

[01:06:27]I thank you.

[01:06:30]>> Uh thank you.

[01:06:36][clears throat] What we have as a ministry today 2014 to 2019 only.

[01:07:03]Uh we just discovered yesterday.

[01:07:08]We were also supposed to attend to something something like six other questions from 2019 I think to 2024.

[01:07:18]>> From 20 yes 2019 to 2024.

[01:07:21]>> Yeah that's true.

[01:07:22]>> And uh we discovered made that discovery by default.

[01:07:27]Uh in other words we were not finished with the 20209 2024 report.

[01:07:37]What we did yesterday was as we working on our document, we were just curious to know our sister ministry child welfare and basic education because some questions differently. So we ask for a copy of their uh their submission only for them to give us 2020 19 204 only yesterday and that's when we discovered already know there are those questions that we should have asked and we identified about six of them. So uh we didn't have time to to prepare for those. So what we're going to be uh presenting to yourselves 24th 2019 I don't know what happened we didn't get the the Thank you.

[01:08:49]General Assembly.

[01:09:01]Thank you, sir. Thank you. Thank you.

[01:09:04][clears throat] Number 56. Dilapidated facilities and obsolute machinery at CH Brigade and update the s.

[01:09:34]Okay. They number 56 which is the answer. Yes.

[01:09:53]>> Yeah. No minister the brigade was planned in the NDP10 but was unfortunately not undertaken to find due to financial constraints.

[01:10:11]The ministry was however undertaking an audit of the status of infrastructure including equipment across brigades in the country.

[01:10:22]the latest update I think in the interim I think a decision to relocate the institution as a result of the development corridor I think that's what they call it these institutions and others facilities were going to be relocated including on this brigade minor maintenance to make sure uh to replace your car, you know, the rhino boards at a cost of five half a million and We don't know uh Ghana a new site for the brigade was identified h and then designs of the new site may and the the the brigade was going to be constructed under the development manager model uh which model we know hi has been suspended and uh for as long as it is suspended everything is halted even the renovations facilities brigade cannot continue and only when we will be in a position to to brigate Thank you.

[01:12:36]Honorables, honorable.

[01:12:46]Thank you, the honorable chair.

[01:13:05]in general.

[01:13:10]Uh, your equipment or most of them obsolete.

[01:13:34]on that situation.

[01:13:43]Uh the other And the approximate cost removal it was around according to your report uh 500,000 method were you express that could have been cheaper. Lastly, what was the main main reason we wanted to remove the asbesto?

[01:14:32]If it's for health purposes, then why are you still putting the people there?

[01:14:36]Thank you very much.

[01:14:39]Thank you honorable honorable uh thank you chair infrastructure including equipment across the uh brigades in the whole country that study.

[01:15:20]>> Thank you.

[01:15:22]Thank you.

[01:15:24]Thank you. Thank you, chair.

[01:15:27][clears throat] Honorable obsolute equipment what is being done it's true our brigades are in a very serious state of disrepair uh it's not only the the facilities even equipment uh has shown uh and I can I think even say that uh even what we what we use it's not what is should be using now injection.

[01:16:25]So that is really across the system and you would appreciate for a very long time it was a neglected area totally neglected but like I said earlier on when I I I presented the summary government has taken a deliberate position on TVET to say we're going to revitalize TVET that is the way to go and uh through the BP the NDP2 resources have been allocated to the revitalization of Tibet and that this revitalization includes everything uh equipment, facilities and so forth.

[01:17:07]Whether the money will be enough or not is another issue but the commitment is there and has been demonstrated by parliament approving uh you know those allocations uh for the ministry and and for in particular. So we hope for through that we will be able to to address some of these issues. Clearly there's no way we can uh get Chet to play the pivotal role that we're expecting to play when uh we don't attend to all these issues. Uh I think that will be we'll be deceiving ourselves if we thought along those lines.

[01:17:48]Um on the procurement method I I think I'll request my colleagues have an idea how the uh the the procurement for this maintenance was done and but before you come in I think the third one I think >> oh yeah I think Yes, thank you chair.

[01:18:19]The the the [clears throat] information I have is that obviously the asbestous was removed for you know on health on health reasons. We replace your cut on any rhino boards. So my assumption is that that was done and there is no longer any ceiling h as best as ceiling was col but I stand corrected by my colleagues who know the situation far much better than I. Thank you.

[01:19:15]Mastermind Ghana.

[01:19:45]Okay.

[01:19:59]I >> do hereby swear that >> do hereby swear that >> the evidence I shall give before this committee >> the evidence I shall give before the committee >> shall be the truth >> shall be the truth >> the whole truth >> the whole truth >> and nothing else but the truth >> and nothing else but the truth >> so help me God >> so help me God >> thank Thank you chair brigade as bestas minister of employment and labor productivity and skills development by then the facility management ministry specialized.

[01:21:11]Thank you.

[01:21:18]Yeah. Audit Ministry, Minister of Employment, Equipment and Machinery.

[01:21:56]Thank you. Thank you.

[01:22:11]Especially the relocation forward.

[01:22:34]Thank you.

[01:22:41]Now question 60 is the next one.

[01:22:44]Conducting tracer studies for vocational training institutes.

[01:22:49]uh the minister at that time they will work with qualifications authority HRTC 2017 2018 at that time uh what turned out to be the case was that uh uh to be able to carry out those studies and the ministry involved the development partner German development partner GIZ to capacitate those lecturers to do so. So to be able to to carry out those tracer studies. So those tracer studies were carried out uh through uh a consultant uh which was an institution in this case 2023 uh to assess graduate employability in the skills relevance progression pathways and industry responsiveness of Tibet programs. Now I think this was a very important study I should say but I would want to inform this committee that uh we have not been able to lay our hands on the study itself. We are still looking for a copy of the study so that we can look at it and see what the findings were.

[01:24:42]um uh we hope we'll get a copy of it and look at the findings where because those findings would really be very helpful moing how do we for example make our TV curriculum relevant uh with their view to improving the employability of our our graduates >> where's the study PS >> the study we are told university I think on behalf of the the ministry and uh it doesn't seem like a copy of the final study was deposited with the ministry at the time. So we are following that up uh to see that what uh was contained in the study. But I'm quite hopeful we will get a copyable.

[01:25:46]Thank you.

[01:25:53]>> The study was done. And let's look at when was the study done and was done and completed.

[01:25:59]>> Yeah.

[01:25:59]>> The period after being after completion it was to me and to this committee. I think we supposed to copy. Yeah. After 3 years, you don't have a copy.

[01:26:20]Thank you.

[01:26:21]>> Yeah. I think uh I think it would only be fair uh to take responsibility as a as the accounting officer for uh for that and I just promise only promise the the committee everything will be done. uh to make sure that we have a committee of that sorry a copy of that and we study it and we are able to report next time to the committee the contents uh of the report thank you submit to confirm or indeed the study was conducted before.

[01:27:17]Yes, I think we can we can say will attempt to do that.

[01:27:45]report.

[01:27:48]Has it been paid?

[01:27:49]>> I think I can ask my colleagues.

[01:27:55]>> Uh, thank you, chair. Um, And I'm reliably informed by the director. A copy was availed at some point ministry which copy has since been misplaced. So we're trying to reach out and the indications and the department at that time receive a copy to that effect. Thank you.

[01:28:43]>> Thank you. PS [snorts] in peace.

[01:29:20]through our secret by next week before Friday.

[01:29:39]Thank you.

[01:29:41]Thank you chair.

[01:29:45]Uh the next question key number 18. Let me just point out this was supposed to be a closed letter.

[01:30:01]Question 80, page page 11.

[01:30:14]>> It indicated it was closed.

[01:30:26]from the report here.

[01:30:29]I think we are bringing it here uh because I think there has been a change I thought that the idea was to close like we said was to close the >> the center. Okay.

[01:30:48]>> Thank you. Now I think a decision has has been taken or the center uh will be basically it will not be closed. It uh it development year 2026 2027.

[01:31:06]So we thought we could even though it closed we could just update the committee on that development.

[01:31:15]Thank you honorables.

[01:31:19]Thank you. Thank you. The next one.

[01:31:26]>> Okay. Thank you. Um then there's question number 376 of 28th February 2018.

[01:31:35]Electricity supply and maintenance of Tutum Brigade.

[01:31:41]uh the minister at that time had indicated they were engaging the then ministry of basic education on the restoration of electricity at the institution.

[01:31:53]uh the period of cyclic maintenance of the facilities was to be determined after determination of the current contract by the ministry of u uh of of of of basic education.

[01:32:09]A contractor was engaged 2018.

[01:32:56]He disappeared.

[01:33:02]legal issues and so forth. May these issues were eventually resolved in 2025 through the support of the department of facility management and power issues still remain and so forth. And the reason why it's difficult to resolve and this is not only it really is a cross to resolve some of these issues the basic infrastructure is really to overhaul the infrastructure planning to overhaul it and replace it with new uh with the new infrastructure or developments.

[01:34:05]We again hope uh through the revitalization project we will be able to uh to achieve uh that. But for as long as we still have that foundational infrastructure, some of these issues are going to be easy to to resolve.

[01:34:30]But eventually things fall apart because the foundation is is aged.

[01:34:37]Thank you.

[01:34:39]Thank you. Yes, thank you honorable.

[01:34:47]Thank you.

[01:35:08]deal with the the public finances and that's it. Thank you very much sir.

[01:35:26]Thank you honorable we we really tried to get to the bottom of the issue.

[01:35:39]What was the nature of the legal dispute?

[01:35:44]Let's recall these are legacy issues like we did indicate we are dealing with legacy issues.

[01:35:52]So now we've really been trying to understand what exactly was the were the issues but my colleagues here I think can help.

[01:36:07]Thank you chair.

[01:36:19]around 209.

[01:36:21]So the ministry of education, Minister of Employment from Minister of Employment Minister of Basic Education, Minister of Higher Education, between the facility managers, Facility Management, those documents.

[01:37:26]Thank you.

[01:37:29]>> Thank you.

[01:37:36]Uh thank you chair.

[01:37:39]Thank you.

[01:37:56]We have a problem.

[01:38:07]You have clear everything up.

[01:38:20]at the moment it doesn't matter. Yes, of course the history helps history also destroy information because you fail to do to get the information when you reach the next time when you come here make sure that we clear everything so that thank you very much Mr. Thank you honorable honorable Thank you.

[01:39:40]Um [clears throat] the the infrastructure is old and needs overhauling to get you Perhaps we could explore that part of their education.

[01:40:22]There have been efforts uh in some institutions to do exactly that. and I'll defer to my my colleague here to elaborate on that.

[01:40:34]Uh thank you chair. Thank you P honorable Murong. I think you are on point on that.

[01:40:46]We have very classic examples for instance.

[01:41:02]Um the institution we have KDA for the longest time as a service to the government for free. Now with this TV revitalization we are taking exactly under the training with production model and we have under the BP three projects.

[01:41:41]We are going to be you know taking that route.

[01:41:53]Then the other one is on infrastructure and construction that will also generate the third stream income. And then the last one you know for free for the minor services. So you are on point given the hardships of our economy right now under the opaces of education with production under the third stream income generation.

[01:42:37]Thank you.

[01:42:56]or brigade to be totally revamped.

[01:43:01]Bits and pieces.

[01:43:07]Thank you.

[01:43:20]Langi food number 588.

[01:43:24]update on the status of Lala Brigade.

[01:43:29]Uh I'll just request to take us through.

[01:43:39]Yeah, that one. [snorts] >> Thank you chair. Thank you.

[01:44:09]equipment.

[01:44:18]Supplier for Minister.

[01:44:57]forun.

[01:45:28]Uh revitalization.

[01:45:53]Revitalization.

[01:46:00]equipment.

[01:46:17]No, I think Um because we want a yes or no question so that we can close up the matter.

[01:46:43]Say it so that we close it.

[01:46:48]Foreward Because 10 hour way of doing things or teachings to prepare ready for the job.

[01:48:01]PS because chairman um [clears throat] project memoranda on a number of projects.

[01:48:44]They will they on the revitalization and others to transform the the economy and activity is has been identified as central. So we have started let me put it that way.

[01:49:25]South 2020.

[01:50:02]specific honorable thank you Mr. Okay.

[01:50:14]his last statement.

[01:50:16][clears throat] They are now at the moment where they are saying that they revision the their system.

[01:50:43]and then something I don't think there's anything much now we can say and then they can come and report next year this is the achievement we've made and everything because not to going through them. They're just similar. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[01:51:17]Thank you very much.

[01:51:34]Secretary.

[01:52:06]Because they're the heart of your your mandate to transform this country.

[01:52:24]the brigade PS.

[01:52:28]>> Sorry, sorry, honorable governor brigade south and therefore the reporting should be specifically on south.

[01:52:50]>> No sir, it will be on all the brigades.

[01:52:56]are all brigad.

[01:52:58]>> [laughter] >> Southland.

[01:53:27]How do we finish?

[01:53:31]>> No, I think you are right. He is right next so that we don't spend much time technical, the administrative.

[01:53:55]So the assurance.

[01:54:01]So I think Thank you honorable.

[01:54:19]Thank you sir.

[01:54:38]May it will be also good so that thank you. Yes sir.

[01:54:54]something.

[01:54:57]Another comprehensive review in terms of their implementation strategy.

[01:55:14]Thank you. Thank you.

[01:55:20]>> Thank you, sir. Yes, please.

[01:55:23]Thank you. Thank you chair.

[01:55:26]In that case then I suggest we move to question 479 on page 28.

[01:55:39]>> Page 28.

[01:55:40]>> Page 28. That's fine.

[01:55:43]>> Registration of job seekers in towns and villages.

[01:55:58]page 23 host at joining technical college.

[01:56:15]Yeah.

[01:56:33]And more page 28.

[01:56:36]The registration. Oh, sorry.

[01:56:49]>> [snorts] >> for purpose of recording brigades and technical colleges because they are joining a technical college. So our expectation is to get a reporting the technical colleges. I thank you P Mr. to be sure.

[01:57:21]Yes, I think I would say yes.

[01:57:28]I say >> thank you PS.

[01:57:32]>> Okay.

[01:57:34]Okay. Thank you, chair. Page 28, question 479.

[01:57:40]on registration of job seekers in towns and major villages and the minister had informed parliament they were in the process of automating the registration of job seekers function uh with a view to increasing its availability and accessibility to job seekers and employers as well as improve data integrity the I'm pleased uh chair to inform you through the HRDC See uh we have been able to complete the labor market information system uh which is developing which has been developed and some of it modules and uh it will um we don't have a date yet but it will be launched by the minister hopefully this quality assurance test what they are doing is that as it is being implemented uh obviously they identifying some gaps here and there and trying to close those gaps but otherwise the HRDC the ministry through the HRDC has been able to complete this uh LM LMS MS uh system and uh we hope it is going to address the issue raised.

[01:59:19]Thank you.

[01:59:24]It looks like a cut across.

[01:59:28]Yeah.

[01:59:42]They reported on the same matter.

[01:59:54]your honor. Yes.

[01:59:59]No, thank you. As they say, Uh page 30 question number 710. This one Page 31, question 483.

[02:00:40]Um, National Health Institute houses in block block six. Go Parliament was informed the NHI houses in block six were not yet occupied as they were incomplete.

[02:00:54]So, National Health Institute houses in block six. The parliament was informed the National Health Institute houses in block six were not yet occupied as they were incomplete.

[02:01:15]So a tender was awarded yamada to ensure the project is completed and uh uh the committee asked for a progress report and the report is that uh we we had to contact the ministry of transport and infrastructure on this uh which indicated to us for a 16 units in Block D of those houses were handed over to the then minister of special education in December 2020 and to date all 48 houses block A to D are occupied.

[02:02:00]So >> thank you PS.

[02:02:06]>> Thank you. And uh then there is on page 32 spilling over to page 33 we have got question 245 engagement of specialists through assistance of the ministry of infrastructure and housing development to exterminate termites in college buildings and to remove antills in the college compound and here the college he's not specified died here.

[02:02:37]But Gord and uh the they had minister had undertaken to have a project uh in address issue termites but the update currently we have not been able to get the records pertaining to the matter. I think we made our attempts to get the records but however it is noted that most of the technical colleges have an infestation of termites and antio will include treatment of the same under the facilities maintenance project under the bub so colleges and techn sorry brigades and technical colleges thank you thank Yes.

[02:03:36]Um then the next one I think it was in page 33 number question number 551 airing introduction of online and one-stop application centers for technical colleges.

[02:03:53]Um uh here the minister had informed the committee the upgrading of the local area network land had been completed at five of the institutions and these were as listed there.

[02:04:15]This land has been completed at Okat Bet GTC now and so forth. In actual fact in all of these uh the the the the upgrading has been done.

[02:04:33]H now the internet connectivity through the MOU between former well between TT and TE institutions is only colleges uh 30 and technical college in total 38 and the BTC was achieved and it is nearing its ending period. However, the online platforms and provision of IT gadgets were never achieved due to the delay in the connectivity project and subsequently financial uh constraints. And here again I think I'll defer to my colleagues here uh to explain how uh why there was this delay and uh finally really uh this was not not achieved because he has to do with diversion of resources to say to the covid uh pandemic over to you.

[02:05:28]>> Thank you chair.

[02:05:30]Um with regards to the online one-stop shop for the technical colleges as the PS has indicated um the internet connectivity uh through the MOU I would say the MOU was the one that took a long time such that by the time um the one-stop shop could be developed the time had already spilled over. So in terms of the one-stop shop application process it has not been done. The internet connectivity that is the infrastructure was put up. The Wi-Fi infrastructure was eventually put up.

[02:06:04]However, the process or the system your one-stop shop was not done has not been done.

[02:06:16]We'll wait for Are you still hoping that you will do it?

[02:06:21]>> We have plans to do it. However, maybe in a a different approach um with our sister ministry, they do have they're looking at developing an education management information system of which we would want to see how we can tap into instead of having our own project um within our ministry.

[02:06:39]>> Thank you. So you'll update.

[02:06:44]Thank you.

[02:06:57]Definitely. Let's have a tangible time approximate tangible time. Thank you very much. Thank you.

[02:07:10]deliver.

[02:07:14]>> Thank you once again. Within this year, we will have a system up >> within the financial year. Yeah. 2026.

[02:07:22]>> Financial year 26 27.

[02:07:24]>> Thank you.

[02:07:25]>> Thank you, sir.

[02:07:30]And we'll wait for the next report.

[02:07:35]>> Thank you, chair, if I may. Um on page 36 we have got question number 32 on the transformation of colleges of education uh to be part of the University of Bjana and to start offering uh degree uh programs.

[02:07:55]Uh this the minister informed the committee already uh consultations were underway uh with the colleges lecturers support staff 2027 2017 sorry there's no need to continue training teachers at diploma level and if anything these institutions should be transformed into degree offering institutions.

[02:08:29]Uh the update the transformation is not yet has not been yet implemented.

[02:08:36]However, the necessary spread work has been done to a point of circulating cabinet memorandum and incorporating the comments from the ministry. But when there was this rationalization in ministries 2024, this issue somehow uh inadvertently was not carried forward and therefore remains outstanding. So what we can we can say gory we are resurrecting it as we speak because luna to we don't see the need for continue offering uh diplomas when we should actually be aiming at the minimum having our schools degree. Uh but let me just add to say that uh they we are in consultations our sister ministry or child welfare and basic education on this matter should they continue offering even degrees can't we have one institution you be offering or I mean training teachers for the country given the fact they even you be degree holders mama roaming streets. What will be the point of extending degrees uh programs to degree programs to uh to these colleges when already we are saturated. So we have other thoughts about these colleges. Uh it's just to uh enlighten the the committee. We are thinking very hard because if we are moving uh go we are revitalizing uh uh TV it may be that we need more technical colleges. So what would be wrong with us now turning these institutions into technical colleges and widen participation in Tibet?

[02:10:39]We are aiming at a ratio of 60 to 40 in other ways 60% of our our students motary should be more motivated than 40%. So if we are to do that we will need infrastructure we need all this this uh equipment and so forth so we can repurpose uh uh some of these institutions or all of them des interested. So that is but in short to answer your question we are resurrecting the project.

[02:11:35]Um, [clears throat] thank you chair.

[02:11:39]like has the emphasis has I mean the emphasis has been on uh training uh people for what industry needs or what uh employers need uh such that uh we cannot uh continue producing uh even teachers just for the sake of producing them.

[02:12:05]We are guided by the need of the needs of the education system.

[02:12:15]We targeted that. Uh the others in the past they could go to these college presently they go to these colleges but may not be able to now have that access. the option is available is there and that's really we want to be very deliberate in driving students uh in that uh in that space.

[02:12:41]Thank you.

[02:12:49]Um comprehensive coming years the the world transition.

[02:13:30]30 years and all these things the world global levelvel in terms of technology foreign.

[02:13:53]Okay.

[02:14:12]2.7 million 2.7 million Lack of fun.

[02:14:52]Lack of interest.

[02:15:02]We don't have so much Thank you.

[02:15:26]Doing everything holders. It seems there's a difference.

[02:15:54]Thank you very much.

[02:16:07]as government for the country including private schools. So the study should also incorporate that thought.

[02:16:37]Thank you. Pers on board and um number [clears throat] page 38 number 122. Development of a tertiary education sponsorship pro policy and cost sharing of one form or the other accompanied by some form of means testing and the minister had uh uh informed the committee that the ministry had developed a draft policy. The proposed policy will replace the current grant loan scheme whose provisions uh had been overtaken by by time. the proposed policy sought to seeks to introduce new dimensions such as cost sharing and misting. I think the truth of the matter is that uh this has not been developed.

[02:17:41]Uh the policy has not been developed.

[02:17:44]Uh but again we uh are before next week the end of next week we'll be submitting a project memorandum to the ministry of finance on this to begin the development of the policy.

[02:18:07]>> Okay. Thank you. So hopefully by the next meeting, >> yes, >> you will have a proper update.

[02:18:14]>> Definitely.

[02:18:16]>> Thank you, sir.

[02:18:16]>> Yeah. Because we need to accomplish this through I mean in this financial year.

[02:18:22]>> Thank you.

[02:18:22]>> Okay. Thank you.

[02:18:35]No problem.

[02:18:38]You want for example I've But I'm here every day.

[02:19:34]Thank you.

[02:19:36]>> Yeah, thank you for that honorable. We will we will put in the list. Yeah, >> but don't just bring it to parliament.

[02:19:46]Put it for example.

[02:20:01]Thank you.

[02:20:02]>> Let me ask my colleague to just enlighten or to shed some light on the on the on the matter but is a very critical issue definitely because if we cannot collect thank you chair um I believe as the PS has indicated collection. I'm sure it's it's an issue that has been going on for quite some time.

[02:20:33]Our records also have been manual over the years. But um in terms of collection for government officers that has been going on um however we have not been able to have access to local government system and I believe that is why we could not get access to you sir.

[02:20:53]However, How can we improve uh our recovery? It is a a sore issue for us looking at the amount of money that has been spent on our our education system. Um one of the other challenges currently g access to those who are in private sector due to the data protection act.

[02:21:29]But these are conversations that are going on.

[02:21:33]Can we come up with a system? Can you digitize such that we have the records of all those who have benefited from the system? It is also under BP this year in terms of recovery. Thank you sir.

[02:21:49]Just to say h we are we have a system on we intend automating nearly four modules and one of the modules on the recoveries.

[02:22:02]So we have we have automated one student placement at the moment but this financial year we want to ensure we we we automate uh the other three and that will improve recoveries because automated recoveries will be able to to know who who are sponsored and who needs to pay back but at the moment it's a little bit difficult I should admit thank you may >> [clears throat] >> transport.

[02:23:15]Honorable.

[02:23:22]Thank you, Chairman.

[02:23:48]I think more than 20 Yes.

[02:24:18]What?

[02:24:19]Okay.

[02:24:29]for >> [clears throat] >> Thank you honorable Moro. Yeah, we have that responsibility to have that mandate collections but like [clears throat] has just said look at our records.

[02:25:25]They have for some time been trying to digitize uh those records.

[02:25:35]Uh me in the process of doing so face they face challenges reload equipment computer to capture that that information.

[02:25:49]It delays the whole thing. And you can imagine already now you are digitalizing information. Yeah. In the 70s, 80s, 90s.

[02:25:58]Some of the people are gone, some are retired, some you know it's really something and we are following them up.

[02:26:24]We know them. Private sector.

[02:26:29]I need information on this person.

[02:26:34]Data protection act does not allow me to do that.

[02:26:39]Uh who I am. You can't move.

[02:26:43]I think to be honest they were never really captured for some reason or the other possible and this is what we are saying what we are trying to to rectify and we believe digitalization is the way to go if we are able to automate our systems we have them on record. But at the moment, I think I should admit that is not that is not the case at all.

[02:27:30]Fore protection.

[02:27:49]Honorable discussions by next.

[02:28:31]Thank you.

[02:28:36]Thank you.

[02:28:42]Um, human resource development council to develop labor market observatory. Yeah.

[02:28:59]42 on uh learning programs offered by DDT College of Medicine. In order the issuers uh the okay the minister informed the committee that engagement with Bhutana health professional council for recognition of learning programs had started. The recognition process was not yet concluded. The ministry would facilitate closure of any gaps identified by BHPC for students who had already graduated from these programs.

[02:29:31]And I suspect chair that this question was about was on whether the programs this college were accredited or not.

[02:29:41]>> Yes.

[02:29:42]>> Uh that's what I I I want to believe was the question. Now [clears throat] the truth of the matter is this and there's been a lot of misunderstanding and others.

[02:29:57]uh we don't sponsor students into programs they know or they are not accredited at least we don't do so knowingly we we sponsor students in programs that only programs that are accredited and the programs at DDT college these are programs that are accredited and I use the word accredited here very very um advisedly We have got two types of programs that are offered by institutions. All of them including legacy programs.

[02:30:40]These are programs that existed way way before originally the NCQFA which requires accreditation of programs and then we have programs in order NCQF compliant. In other words, these were developed NCQF.

[02:31:01]So, we've got two types of programs and programs legacy programs and we sponsor students into them because they are legitimate programs. H So, it's not like they are not accredited. They are but they are legacy programs and many programs are legacy programs. from zero over them. So I think the issue really is that we should now move and we have already started doing so with speed through the BQA to make sure that all legacy programs are transformed into NCQF compliant programs so that the all of them then we can use the word accredited uh el standard. So the issue is that these programs are just legitimate programs quality pro quality delivery and so forth but not they are not accredited or they are not legitimate programs for students to be sponsored into.

[02:32:08]Thank you PSA.

[02:32:13]Uh thank you uh chair regarding this.

[02:32:28]I think one of your colleagues was interface between professional bodies.

[02:32:40]So that when you talk about accreditation, it should also professional bodies in a hand of those courses rather than going forward.

[02:33:22]The affected bodies on top of that professional Thank you very much. Thank you.

[02:33:41]>> Thank you. No, >> thank you. Thank you. Just again to shed light on that one. Um [clears throat] what we have established the issue. Yeah. The professional bodies in terms of the accreditation.

[02:34:02]No professional program up to professional bodies. But legacies were not. But if if we to be specific to these ones, We don't recognize this. Now the problem there programs doctor's assistant that program that program doctor's assistance and therefore so it's not really about the quality of the the program itself is is because it's not recognized. So the solution is to make sure to include that programs and that's only when we can judge the quality of the program.

[02:35:58]>> Thank you.

[02:36:20]Do we have the number of of I think we can confirm that didn't we something it Um I'm gladly informed by the director that it's around 35 but we will confirm with the information.

[02:36:47]>> Yes.

[02:36:48]And we've had not just one cohort, we've had several cohorts of whom some have gone on to pass um the the the the assessment their law society.

[02:37:05]Thank you sir.

[02:37:08][laughter] >> Thank you.

[02:37:13]>> Thank you. Thank you chair. Um the next one the okay conversion of all TI town primary school into a a brigade and the minister we had a bit of a challenge because there is no update minister Kim Moshi this house request government to turn the alter.

[02:38:01]I'm not sure we were able to get uh but November anyway 2020 the committee was informed that the Titan primary schools were under the ministry of government and what we have since established this school it was it was not usable anymore but in the future.

[02:38:43]It was not under our jurisdiction. But how? because that would mean spending.

[02:39:06]So what you are saying?

[02:39:18]Yes. Thank you.

[02:39:20]Um and 40 page 44 uh motion made is on the relocation of the department of mining and geological engineering of the college of engineering and technology at boost from palap to uh civ piqu uh here the look mind this department was supposed to be relocated to to to slway.

[02:39:55]Uh me the update ch is that this has not been been done. This has not been concluded.

[02:40:04]Um um we were were pains to appreciate what was behind uh this but we assumed because uh the BCL mine the idea was why don't you locate this department next to a big mine like the BCR so that students can learn experientially mine on but uh unfortunately uh the mine closed and we suspect that then made the entire project redundant.

[02:40:46]Thank you honorable finisher.

[02:41:01]But historically 1220 24, [clears throat] Mr. Chair, [clears throat] Minister Parliament vote.

[02:42:36]for honorable members.

[02:43:10]20 minutes.

[02:43:26]Speaker Ministry, Transport and Infrastructure.

[03:16:10]for Thomas.

[03:16:49]Dr. East with your name.

[03:17:35]Parliament Parliament.

[03:18:01]Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and good morning.

[03:18:04]from Parliamentary Council.

[03:18:14]Thank you.

[03:18:50]I'm the acting deputy permanent secretary building infrastructure. Ministry of Transport and Infrastructure Development Planning and Development. Thank you Director Rose Maintenance.

[03:19:29]acting manager management.

[03:19:38]Thank you.

[03:20:10]Thank you.

[03:20:18]Governance assurance the permanent secretary.

[03:20:56]and PS or the permanent secretary, the accounting officer, Min, Transport and Infrastructure, Accounting Officer our secretary by the end of today.