(EN) The stories we carry, shape the way we connect with Rozalina Angelova

Added: 2026-05-14

[00:00:00]In this episode, we explore something [music] many people experience but do not always name. [music] How trauma, attachment, and our inner worlds [music] can influence the way we relate to others. Very happy to welcome Rosalina Angelovva.

[00:00:19]Rosalina is a psychotherapist based in Zurich. [music] Applaud you for this great book uh the monkey fish and other truths. I've read it. I found it very very interesting and very uh good read that I think people can really read again [music] and again. It's the >> but when I tell a fairy tale and I put it in a symbolic metaphorical [music] way, it really touches.

[00:00:46]>> A warm [music] welcome to Brebmond, the podcast about real human connections across generations, [music] cultures, and everyday life. I'm Patrick Doyo and here we share real conversations that leaves you with practical ideas to create more connection.

[00:01:05]Today's episode is the stories we carry shape the way we connect.

[00:01:12]In this episode, we explore something many people experience but do not always name. How trauma, attachment, and our inner worlds can influence the way we relate to others.

[00:01:27]Why do some people deeply long for connection yet struggle to trust it? Why do some relationships feel safe while others awaken fear, distance or confusion? And how can stories help us better understand ourself and reconnect with other and to speak about this great topic today I'm very happy to welcome Rosalina Angelovva Rosalina is a psychotherapist based in Zurich originally from Bulgaria she studied psychology in Berlin Germany spent one year in London on a scholarship after completing her masters in psychology and later completed a psychotherapy Y training in Zurich.

[00:02:14]Having lived between cultures over 25 years, her work is deeply shaped by questions of identity and connection to oneself and to others. She specializes in HDHD, trauma and relationships.

[00:02:32]She recently published her first book in German aphen fish wound under var heighten which is translated into English as monkey fish and other truths.

[00:02:46]The book presents fairy tales from the therapy room for ordinary people using metaphorical storytelling so that readers can discover their own story within them. Through her work, Rosalina helps people explore the hidden emotional patterns that shape their relationship, their sense of self, and their ability to feel seen, safe, and truly connected. Rosalina, it's a great great great pleasure to have you here on Breideband. Welcome to Brightitebond.

[00:03:17]>> Thank you. Thank you for the introduction.

[00:03:20]>> Really well.

[00:03:22]>> You're most welcome.

[00:03:23]>> Summarized.

[00:03:24]>> You're most welcome Rosalina. Um, as always, I'd just like to ask you Rosalina at the beginning, how old are you today and what's gives you energy at the moment?

[00:03:36]>> I am 44 still.

[00:03:40]June in June I will be 45 and energy yeah at the moment it's actually my book that I published it's like uh something that inspires me that I get get a lot of feedback for from people that are not my patients for the first time this thing that started as something very intimate in the therapy room got out in the world and um yeah and this gives me this project that I see it happening going out there gives me a lot of energy and inspiration.

[00:04:24]>> Okay, that's great. Great to hear. And first of all, I'd like to uh applaud you for this great book uh the monkey fish and other truths. I've read it. I found it very very interesting and very uh good read that I think people can really read again and again. It's the type of book for our listeners where you can really go back to the stories and interpret it in different ways. But my first question for you about the book uh is why therapeutic fairy tales for adult.

[00:04:55]>> Yes, it's [laughter] simple and then more complex than we think.

[00:05:02]Sometimes when it's just set to to your face something it's it's too difficult when when I tell to to a patient to a client uh you are do you realize how you are masking or doing this and that in your life they will be nodding somehow understanding but when I tell a fairy tale and I put it in a symbolic metaphorical way. It really touches more emotions and then it's easier to understand it with the heart and with the whole body, not only like cognitive, yeah, I know, but what can I do about it? [clears throat] >> Yeah, we will speak a bit more about that. I think the techniques or tools you use are very interesting. Um and again some of the stories I could really relate to and also I could see other people around me who could be very much uh mirrored in some of the tales and some of the stories you mentioned in your book. So it's very very interesting >> real stories real people.

[00:06:14]>> Exactly. That's really authentic real people. That's very interesting.

[00:06:18]>> Um I also wanted to ask you um how we spoke sometimes about trauma or about uh attachment. Uh so how does trauma or how do trauma and attachment shape the way we connect with other later in life? We hear sometimes >> and I coach people as well. Sometimes people have difficulty to connect with other people and I wanted to ask you as a therapist as a professional how do trauma and attachment shape the way we connect with other later in life.

[00:06:50]Yeah, it's very important the the relationships and the attachments and the trauma that we experience as children. This is the blueprint how we relate afterwards to others and we don't remember everything but it is it is crucial and um yeah I for example I can think of the one of the fairy tales that is there the invisible uh band for a boy that learns that when he's quiet and his mouth is shut He receives love and then later on in life he finds uh he he starts his own family and he is not able to communicate his emotions, his needs and this makes it very difficult to really when you have forgotten and you haven't been allowed to talk because in this moment when the little boy founds that there is this bandage to put on his mouth, the parents start loving and giving more attention. So this is one way to look at it.

[00:08:10]>> Mhm. That's a very interest thing and you spoke about attention which is also as you say important for child also important for adults and uh >> I I wanted to also to um to link that with uh being close to people. I hear again and again from people around me that people want to be closer to other people or they want some sort of closeness >> and yet most of the time they feel sometimes uncomfortable when it actually happened when they are ready to be closer to someone and they happens they kind of step back sometimes. So is that also linked with that story you just told us with the child who need to be silent?

[00:08:50]>> It is linked with this story. It is linked funnly with another as well about this a girl this time with uh with the blindfold. This girl receives a blindfold at the age of five. This is just uh it could be any age but it's a little girl and then she doesn't realize when people are coming too close when people are hurting and it's not allowed even because this blindfold is given by her mother out of love and from love she carries it and then the closeness gets painful. So this is this is as well one type of um attachment trauma that that we realize and the boundaries that we don't learn to see and to practice saying no and then being is not possible but then it's u painful.

[00:09:59]>> Mhm.

[00:10:01]>> And closeness gets gets painful. Mhm.

[00:10:05]Yeah, that's a very interesting again because it comes from your therapeutic room, so you really see people sharing that with you. Um, and that's really interesting to see how you manage to actually give them tools and tips to try to overcome uh there's maybe some sort of defensive mechanism I assume uh when people come too close to them. And I wanted to to ask you because of course you see a lot of people every day. You have a lot of patients uh in society. I wanted to have your your point of view.

[00:10:39]I hear things around me as well. But I wanted to have your point of view as a therapist who see a lot of people. Um a lot of people again might work totally fine. They might totally be functional in their day-to-day activity and their jobs but they feel disconnected inside.

[00:10:57]And I hear that story again and again. I wanted to ask you as a therapist, as someone who sees so many people, why do you think that is so common nowadays?

[00:11:07]>> Mhm.

[00:11:08]>> Yeah, there are many reasons. Uh and we can come back to the to the child child experiences, but we are as well not connected to ourselves.

[00:11:21]This is this is kind of the main reason we learn to perform to look good and to uh to look outside and in this way of looking what is good, what is accepted and all these things we are losing the connection with ourselves.

[00:11:48]And I I always say to my patients, the inner world is shown then into the outer world. If you have a good connection to yourself, the connections and the relationship with the others will improve. So I'm working a lot on this um self love, self care which we hear all the time. But it's not about uh buying some clothes or uh doing some spa. It's more putting the boundaries, keeping the word to yourself. When you say I'm going to exercise and then you don't, you are abandoning yourself and you are betraying yourself, lying to yourself. And we are doing it all the time when we are people pleasing as well. when you ask me, hey, do you want to come uh to to this party with me tonight? And I'm actually tired. And then I like, yes, I will come because I think, okay, if I say no, maybe you will not invite me again and I will look boring. And at the same time what I really want and if I respect and love myself I will say no because I need to take care of myself.

[00:13:26]This is this is how we disconnect from us from ourself and then that it goes on and expresses in the outside connections.

[00:13:40]>> It's very interesting what you say. He spoke about giving a promise and uh you're right we often time give a promise to other people we commit to as you say a party or an event and even though we are maybe very tired from the week we still go because we give that promise but it's very interesting what you said we give our promise to ourself as well and we need probably also to from time to time listen to the promise we do and we give to ourself like going to the gym as you say I promise that I will go on the gym on a Friday or Saturday and then sometimes we're too tired when we don't go and we kind of break the promise to ourel if I understood you well right.

[00:14:19]>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. This is this is the thing because yeah we learn it somehow to uh to please our parents, our teachers and uh then [sighs] forget what we actually need, feel and say to ourselves, then it's not important. And this is going again back to this childhood experiences. It's so deep and so important and I work a lot with with this uh with these things.

[00:14:56]>> Yeah, it's interesting because it takes so as you said if I take the example of the child who was asked to be silent it probably takes a long time to rewire the brain of the person because all the childhood that person has heard be silent. So I wanted to speak about the tools that you explain and you use in your book and that I know you use also in your therapy which is very very interesting and very powerful. Um it's uh really the tool of to some extent storytelling or using your tails which helps people understand their own emotion when they struggle sometimes to explain that as you say directly or to hear it directly. So can can you tell us a bit more on how that works with those storytelling and those tales? How do they help you patients to uh actually sometimes understand what's going on with them?

[00:15:49]>> Mhm. Yeah. It's just it helps because it gives you the opportunity to detach to see something from like not from I it's me. We are talking about me, my problems and it's very emotional.

[00:16:10]People feel very stuck in in their thing and then it's like okay just imagine this story. There is uh this prince with the hole in the heart and and then they're like they get away from the critical mind from the mind that is protecting them in a way. And we usually develop this protective coping mechanisms in the childhood and they were useful then but they're not so useful now. And in this way I'm switching it off or putting it on silent. So now we are not criticizing.

[00:16:59]Now we are not evaluating myself, my story. How do I look like? I just listen to a fairy tale. I just listen about about uh a fish with a with a monkey costume. This is the the title of the book. And uh so and then it clicks then it can because then the subconscious is working then the emotions are are switched on it's like watching a movie because this is what I really like it as well u with these fairy tales and that's why I put it in the book we are not reading enough now and our brain stops producing images because we see images all the time. We are bombarded by YouTube, uh, Netflix and everything and books are and stories. Even when we listen, it's just your imagination, your creative, your subconscious, it's different layers, they start working and you start connecting to yourself in a different way and getting there.

[00:18:13]I wanted to also ask you uh how do you compose or you write those tails? Are they coming live whilst you are seeing patient or do you write them after or how how did they come about actually the creation of those tails? It's very interesting.

[00:18:28]>> They all of them they came in the session >> because this is how my brain works.

[00:18:36]>> [laughter] >> It's it's a little bit I do it for myself too because when I listen to u to the struggles and I I get this picture I try to simplify it as well for them because recently I I'm I produce new stories every time or or at least a small metaphor. There was this person who who was giving everything for his family and and now the kids are grown up. The wife is uh is capable of working but is not.

[00:19:13]And then he's like, I'm tired. I need to take care of myself. And I'm like, yeah, just do it. But it doesn't it doesn't arrive. And then I'm like, yeah, imagine there is there is a beggar and he gives all that he has to someone and at the end it's like he gets very very little because he all the time is taking stuff uh working for it and if he decides to stop giving is he a bad person? No, he isn't.

[00:19:53]uh and then it makes the click okay I'm not the bad person because people always even though it's like uh detaching they know it's about themselves they can all the time they can make the the link >> and this [clears throat] is this is the beauty of this >> I think it's fascinating if I may say that you're able to uh create stories at the same times that you listen to a patient So it's require a very creative mind and a very good listening skills to do both at the same time. So I found that fascinating I have to say compliment on that that you managed to do that at the same time.

[00:20:33]>> Thank you >> during your session. It's great. And uh it remind me as well I've seen you spoke about film and I've seen a Netflix series called Stutz um that was produced by an actor that I really like Jonah Hill and Jonah Hill was I think brave to speak about his own session with his psychotherapist Phil Schutz. Uh I found that very um again interesting because he exposed the tools that Phil Tootsz is using and Phil Tut is also using drawing. So he's writing and drawing little cards that he give to the patients and that really helped them.

[00:21:11]And when I read your book and when you told me how you use your stories, I could really remember that story of Phil Stutz and Jenna Hill. So those tools I think are a great great way to help people and uh I'm sure that you have great success with your patient because again as you said they can detach listening to your story. So >> I really um you're the first person actually I've uh I've heard using a tool like this one apart from the the apart from fish. So again congratulation on that.

[00:21:46]But I'm using as well cards, you know. I have as well like uh pictures and a lot of a lot of symbols. I have a box that is full of like small items, coin, a balloon, uh like a little uh dog or a lot a lot of things. And then people are creating as well their their story with this and their problem. And then we are looking for solutions. And this is again one way to detach and to switch off this critical mind that has no solution.

[00:22:31]There is no solution. Sometimes when you think in the logic and put a lot of stops for in front of yourself this is not possible. This is not and then when you take like a like a monkey and the stone and then uh a sign of stop and then you like this is my problem and and then I say okay take some more symbols to show me the solutions. then you take a sun or uh something else and then it's like this is the solution and I'm like okay now detach from everything and think how is this monkey that is representing you going to reach there and then and I'm working for example with this many many sessions >> okay with the same story you mean or >> with the same story with the same symbols >> yeah that's really a great That's also what I really like about your book is that you can read the same story and discover another angle about yourself or another part that you didn't uh maybe click with in the first time you read it. So that's why I was saying I think it's a book you can really read again and again and again.

[00:23:43]>> Yeah.

[00:23:43]>> And the format is great I have to say because uh personally if I'm tired and I see a book of 500 pages it usually fall on my nose before I finished reading page one. I think yours is great because uh it's not too short, not too long and it's well written. It's it's really >> I have it here like you >> Yeah, it's Yeah, it's between 60 70 pages. It's really >> Yeah, it's 13 fairy tales.

[00:24:10]>> Yeah, small in number of pages but very powerful on the content and it really picks the brain. I've read already a few stories few times and I discovered again different things. I also wanted >> what is your favorite story?

[00:24:26]>> Well, I don't have really one favorite, but I took some notes on your books and uh I think uh there's four stories that I could either directly relate to or hear people around me. I like the monkey fish, of course, the the first um the first story, which is great. The lion couple, it was also an interesting one with the couples. I hear a lot of stories about couples who are sometimes struggling around them.

[00:24:53]>> Um I related to the knee that went too much because I played basketball a lot and did a lot of sports and I know a lot of sportive around me as well have sometimes maybe pushed too much on their bodies >> and I like the end when you you say the person ask or say sorry to the body actually and that's was very I think powerful and I could relate to that one as well. And the last story I think was really beautiful as well with the tree that grew on water. Um I think there's different uh again way to read it and to understand it. But uh with the root and the way the the tree grows and the there's the part where there's a lot of wind and you know it's also the environment. Is it the environment who's shaking you or is it the roots are not well ingrained in in the the ground and that can really relate in different levels to many people and uh and leaders as well. leadership uh is also a part of of growing and helping others to grow.

[00:25:50]So I could relate also professionally in in those stories as well. I cannot say one because again I would probably read again your book some stories and maybe another one would be my favorite one but those four really resonated with me I have to say.

[00:26:05]>> Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. especially uh like how how you and this I really like when people are telling me what they see in the in the stories because it's not uh always what I what the the story was initially meant for >> and that that makes it like to me like wow it's it's much more than that it's uh people are seeing themselves really in in so many different ways because especially the the monkey fish. Uh I heard now maybe four different versions of >> what is it about >> and uh yeah and I'm not going to tell what is it about but because um everybody uh can discover for themselves something and actually you discover your own truth and yourself inside of those >> exactly I think that's the power of using imagination tells as you just said everyone can >> interpret the story with their own knowledge their own stories so it's really beautiful >> great I also wanted to uh we spoke a lot about the the patient or the people come to see you and we spoke of the tool which are very important powerful also wanted to think a bit about you know the people around the people who are coming to see you the friends the family of the people who are coming to see you um sometimes I also hear some people want to help but they don't know how to help.

[00:27:46]So if we think about you know partners, friends, family members, um when someone they love finds uh connection difficult, how how can we or what would you say to them? How can they help the the loved ones?

[00:28:01]>> Mhm. Yeah. always is uh interesting about this helping uh people because first of all to help someone this person needs to as well be open and want the help. We cannot push ourselves and help. It's uh it's actually not not the productive way. Uh, and in this one, I'm thinking it's it is you can you can look in one of one of the the fairy tales again.

[00:28:38]It's u it's the prince with the hole in the heart.

[00:28:42]>> Mhm. And it's seeing this hole and not trying to push and fill it and make everything, but just sit next to this hole, next to this emptiness, next to the to the pain and hold the hand and just be there.

[00:29:04]>> Mhm. [clears throat] >> And just be open. And this is this is more than enough. and showing if someone is struggling with connection just just being sitting next to the person sitting next to this black hole it all it takes as a start and can be very very healing. This is what sometimes I am as well in the position of being the helper. I'm not the family and and this is uh this is a good thing because I can be more detached but it's helpful just to to have witness and to have more understanding rather than just do this just do that this is a tip uh go out meet someone did you do this and this is um causing more resistance and bigger pain than actually helping.

[00:30:11]>> Mhm. Okay, that's a very good tip. It sounds not too difficult to apply, but I guess it is again important to be present for people and as you say, be uh next to them and sometimes it's not so easy. We think it's easy, but it's not always easy.

[00:30:27]>> It's not easy. It's not easy when you see something. This is a lot. I have a lot of patients as well telling me about some family members and I want to help and I want and they don't listen and it's like it's just yeah just being there and observing somebody struggling >> and being there and waiting for them to with the stretched hand I'm here if you want take it but not pushing. Yeah, >> it's very difficult.

[00:31:03]>> Mhm. Okay. Also, um yeah, thanks for that. I think it's really important to remind people that it's not always easy and also when we see people suffering or struggling. Uh sometimes it's not of course is easy or it's not easy to witness that of course as simple as that. And sometimes it's difficult to try because you want to try to help and maybe you don't know how.

[00:31:25]>> You don't have the tool. And uh yeah, but that's as you said, be present is a already a gift and already very important to stay next to the person.

[00:31:34]>> Yeah, >> very [clears throat] interesting.

[00:31:36]>> Yeah, >> thanks for that tip. I think it will resonate with a lot of our listeners today.

[00:31:41]>> I also wanted to I read recently an an information which was interesting, a bit um yeah striking I would say. I wanted to have view as a professional on that. As you know, I'm uh uh I've been researching and also studying um crossgenerational connection or connection between generations. And I've read an article from Lara Austinine from the journal of family research.

[00:32:09]She did a research about can people who are disconnected or lonely adult can that be passed on to their children and can their children when they become adults or young adults being also feeling lonely because of that influence. So her studies shows that to some extent uh the social activity and the social inter relationship they have with their family and their parents can actually influence also uh being lonely.

[00:32:40]I wanted to have your point of view on that uh passing on um so is there a new view and new experience is there sometimes possibility that uh you can actually pass on this connection without realizing it to to other people was an example but could be anyone else right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. This is uh we we are connected.

[00:33:05]Even if we feel disconnected, we are connected. There is the generational trauma we uh talk a lot about and I have seen it and I see it still all the time. And uh passing things to children. This is this is the the beginning of our conversation. and the trauma and the attachment and the little boy and the little girl with the with the blindfold with the bandage. Uh talking about the the niece that run too much as well. It's like there is this girl who learns that uh being successful means to run and from where she learns it from her parents from from the people around from the grown-ups. So we learn a lot as children how the world functions from our environment and from the older generation because they are the first source of information of love of life of everything. So and this is learning by observation and uh still there is something kind of on a on a deeper deeper level and this is this is this generational bond and connection with people that we don't even know and uh and I would and this is the the trauma that is passed on generation and it can be really this attachment. Somebody for example has difficulties to to build a lasting relationship and they're like struggling and they don't know and it's uh they have no explanation. And then we look back in in their um generational stories and and it turns out it it comes a lot from these uh family constellations that there was a person with within the family who as well never got married and never was accepted by by the family by society and was very lonely. And these people they feel lonely long time most of their lives until they start looking into where this could be coming from. And it can be coming from feeling deeply connected and loyal to somebody that that we don't even know. So these things can be passed on of course in in different layers, different levels.

[00:36:01]>> Yeah. [clears throat] Very interesting and very powerful. And as you said, it can touch a lot of people >> without realizing it. That's the thing, right? As you say, come comes from >> parents, grandparents, from generations actually. Quite interesting. Yeah. Okay, that's great. Thanks for the insight, Roselina.

[00:36:18]>> Um, I wanted [clears throat] to ask you the last question of the podcast uh to finish on a positive note, the bridebone tip. I always ask my guests if they can give a little tip to our listeners. So if you could uh maybe give a little tip uh small step that people can maybe take this week or next week to build safer more honest connection in their lives.

[00:36:38]What would you tell them >> to connect first with themselves?

[00:36:46]Make a break. Breathe in and out. Check in how do I feel? Do I feel tired?

[00:36:55]Do I want to do this or just I say yes to something that I actually don't want to check in what did I promise today to myself and just do it for themselves.

[00:37:10]just this there are little little steps like the the drop in my plant that uh that I have here in my room of water that it can grow the the rose of Jero you know this is a very very nice thing if you're listeners and I think especially because it's a generational podcast with many different generations and some People are like, "Yeah, it's too late for me to do whatever. I'm too old or I'm too broken or anything like it just takes little steps and it it can grow again everything."

[00:37:54]>> Great. Thank you. Very positive message.

[00:37:56]I agree with you. It can touch everyone in any generation specifically when you use imagination and tales are about imagination and everyone can imagine. So you can really touch everyone at any point in time in their life. So I really want to uh thank you so much Rosalina for your uh very much interesting insight and uh it was really deeply human I think this conversation very important as well on the topic we touched today and it was great to have you as a professional as a therapist. Um I'd like to maybe summarize a little bit this uh episode. What I take I think from today is that connection is not only about meeting the right people.

[00:38:38]It's also about understanding as Rosalina say ourself, understanding our stories, maybe our wounds, maybe our attachment patterns uh we carry with us.

[00:38:49]Sometimes it's difficult um to connect with people. As we said, it's not always easy. Um so it can be something learn sometimes it's protective. Sometimes it's self mechanism or defensive mechanism. So sometimes this part which is important to address before trying to connect. I really like this episode. I have to say the story we carry shape the way we connect because uh again by understanding the stories that Rosin explained with her book understanding ourself we begin to create the possibility of new connection with more safety more honesty more compassion. Uh for those who are listening again, listen to Rosalina tips today. Try this out this week, next week as she said to do a little step. How do I connect better with others? And uh maybe before doing that question, maybe ask yourself, what story am I carrying into that relationship? That could be also a good question for yourself. I'd like to also thanks Rosalina and her book.

[00:39:53]Congratulation again on your book. It's a great great book. The monkey fish.

[00:39:57]>> The next one is coming soon.

[00:39:59]>> Okay. Very good. So we can do another episodes on the next book very soon. The monkey fish and other truth. Uh for our listeners if you want to read this great book which I really uh advise you to do.

[00:40:12]It can really help. You can read it again and again and again. Uh I will put the reference of the book uh in the comments. Uh it is on Amazon but I will put the link into the comments if you want to read that great book. Thank you for listening to Britebond. If this episode spoke to you, share it with someone who need it. Uh please don't hesitate to follow us and subscribe to our YouTube channel, Breitebond Official, by clicking the little bell.

[00:40:38]It's free and it will really help us.

[00:40:41]Please take good care of yourself and uh see you next time on Brightitebond. And thank you Rosalina and bye for >> Thank you Patrick. Thank you for having me. Bye.