Lost Highway - S15 E118

[00:00:00]Hello and welcome to Shoot the Hostage with me, Sarah, and my partner Dan.

[00:00:04]We're a movie podcast and we cover eight films per season on a specific theme.

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[00:00:53]>> Sarah, it's time for a pinch of lynch because today we're talking about Lost Highway.

[00:01:00]>> Yep. Uh, continuing your liinal spaces theme, we've got some help today.

[00:01:06]Joining us for the second time on the podcast, it's world's leading expert on David Lynch, Jamie from Final Transmission. Thanks for being here, Jamie. And I'm looking forward to you solving everything David Lynch, given your expertise.

[00:01:20]>> Oh, yeah. We're not leaving till this we we figure this movie out. We're here.

[00:01:23]We're here for the long haul, right?

[00:01:25]>> Locked in for days.

[00:01:26]>> Yeah. I need to >> I'm glad we're all on the same page. I need to obviously preface that I am not an expert in David. [laughter] >> He's just saying that he's just being he's just being modest.

[00:01:37]>> Yeah, we need we need your help this time. So, no pressure.

[00:01:42]>> Okay. Well, I'll do I'll do my best.

[00:01:45]>> Um Jamie, first question. Sarah sent you the lineup ahead of time.

[00:01:50]>> Yes.

[00:01:51]>> So, you know, you know all the movies we covered.

[00:01:53]>> Yeah.

[00:01:54]>> Um didn't fancy Messiah of Evil. Didn't fancy Picnic at Hanging Rock.

[00:01:59]So, [snorts] Lost Highway is my favorite David Lynch movie.

[00:02:03]>> Interesting.

[00:02:05]>> So, I saw it on the list and was like, I'm locked in. There was a couple that I was like, yeah, I could I could go for that. But Lost Highway was the one where I was like, yes, absolutely.

[00:02:17]>> Okay, so you're sort of on the list.

[00:02:19]You're like, yep, that's my favorite Lynch movie. And we'll get into the questions about why that is, I'm sure.

[00:02:24]Um, Sarah Mhm.

[00:02:29]Were there any other David Lynch movies in contention?

[00:02:32]>> Um, I did kind of go back and forth between this one and Mull Holland and Drive. I'll be honest, like I'm not super well knowledgeable about David Lynch and his movies. Um, I I like the ones that I've seen, >> but there's there's quite a lot of his um back catalog that I haven't seen. But ultimately, I I have fond memories of watching this um probably early 2000s.

[00:02:57]It's funny because I have this film inextricably linked to you in my brain.

[00:03:03]>> Do you?

[00:03:04]>> Only because I I could hear you in my head saying rising star Basaretta. [laughter] Like I I feel like we we maybe had or you had the DVD like at some point and was just laughing at the the the back of the DVD box saying rising star Ba Zaretti and yeah, ever since then I can't think of this film or BA Zetti without hearing you [laughter] say that in my brain.

[00:03:34]>> That's fair. Do you know what that's from?

[00:03:37]>> Do you remember that movie Feast?

[00:03:39]>> Oh, is it is it was it Feast? Yeah.

[00:03:42]>> Yeah. and he was described as rising star Belfaretti. But bear in mind this is in like I don't know 2006 or something.

[00:03:49]>> So bizarre phrasing. Yeah.

[00:03:53]>> He [snorts] to me he's um the kid from Young Guns 2 which was in 1989 1990.

[00:03:59]>> Yeah. He was a kid actor. He was in like the Lord of the Flies adaptation.

[00:04:04]>> Yeah.

[00:04:04]>> He was in a bunch of stuff as a kid. So that's I think that's why it stuck in my head because it was really bizarre phrasing like how long has his star been rising at this point?

[00:04:15]>> He's still rising now.

[00:04:16]>> Yeah.

[00:04:17]>> 68 years old. [laughter] >> I don't understand how Basaretti isn't like leading a CSI franchise or >> Oh yeah.

[00:04:26]>> or or a law and order like he's built for it.

[00:04:29]>> Yeah.

[00:04:30]>> Is is he not? I just assumed that he would be >> like a Miami Vice or something. Is that still on that show?

[00:04:36]>> They brought it back, didn't they? I didn't see the the the Miami Vice reboot.

[00:04:40]>> No, pass me by. I guess I just assumed that the original show was still on.

[00:04:44]Thanks, Michael Man.

[00:04:47]>> Is that why you picked the shirt?

[00:04:50]>> I guess it was. Yeah, I had Miami Vice on the on the brain already, I guess.

[00:04:55]Um, Jamie, if Sarah had picked Mole Holland Drive, do you think that you would have still gone for Lynch or would others have stood out to you?

[00:05:06]>> Um, I mean, I do like Triangle a lot and obviously Prince of Darkness is on the list and um, John Carpenter is one of my favorite directors and that's one of his sort of most weird but but great movies.

[00:05:22]Sort of a bit underappreciated. So, I may have I may have over that way a little bit.

[00:05:27]>> Okay. But does you saw Lost Highway?

[00:05:29]You're like, "Yeah, no, that's the one."

[00:05:30]>> Absolutely. That's the one. Yeah.

[00:05:33]>> So, we expect answers from you >> is what we're saying.

[00:05:36]>> Well, I've got answers. You might not like them. [laughter] >> The answer is strobe jazz.

[00:05:44]>> Oh, no. No. That's one of my first notes. Saxopones and strobe lights are two of my least favorite things in the world.

[00:05:51]>> Is it because it's what's playing in your brain at all times?

[00:05:54]Um, no. I try I try not to go near it.

[00:05:59]Um, but Bill Pullman, it's such a such a dilemma.

[00:06:04]>> I like >> one of three of the things in that scene.

[00:06:09]>> One of them is And it's Bill Pullman.

[00:06:11]>> Yeah.

[00:06:11]>> Bill Pullman blowing on a massive instrument.

[00:06:14]>> Yeah. I like him less [laughter] >> after having seen that.

[00:06:18]>> Well, what is it about saxophone players in this show? We keep covering movies with BS that played the saxophone and we're not. We haven't even done the Lost Boys yet.

[00:06:26]>> I know. I know. We should have done a saxophone season. Really?

[00:06:30]>> We should have done a saxophone. We're still We can do it still. Jamie, don't forget to join us for that one.

[00:06:34][laughter] >> Absolutely. Have to change the name to uh like Honk the Instrument or something, but >> just for that one season.

[00:06:42]>> Yeah.

[00:06:43]>> Yeah, why not? I well I mean it was pretty early when Bill Pullman started blowing into that uh saxophone and I must admit like after last week with the ethereal pan pipes in picnic and hanging rock between that and immed almost immediately seeing jazz saxophone I was like this is not a good start for this movie.

[00:07:04]>> Well in fairness the first music we hear is David Bowie so >> true. Yeah >> way better. Sarah picks another movie with David Bowie music in it.

[00:07:14]>> It's It's hard not to. Do you know how many films have Bowie music in them?

[00:07:20]>> Do you five?

[00:07:23]>> Do you also find yourselves picking movies that have um I Put a Spell on You, the Marilyn Manson cover on it.

[00:07:31]>> You try not to as a rule, but I'd forgotten about that.

[00:07:34]>> It It comes up quite a lot.

[00:07:36]>> Does it? Oh, what else is it in?

[00:07:40]>> Uh, that's a a question that I wasn't prepared to answer. [laughter] Um, >> it's in Earnest Goes to Prison, I think.

[00:07:48]>> I feel like it's in it's in more than one movie, right?

[00:07:51]>> I don't know. I can name other movies with Marilyn Manson songs in, but not that one specifically.

[00:07:58]>> I can only name one.

[00:08:01]>> Is it this one?

[00:08:03]>> I can name two of the same movie. Is it House on Haunted Hill?

[00:08:08]>> Yeah. [laughter] >> My favorite Jeffrey Rush movie.

[00:08:12]My second favorite Tay Digs movie.

[00:08:15]>> Ah, after Go, Of course.

[00:08:18]>> My third favorite Tay Digs movie.

[00:08:20][laughter] >> Oh, what else then?

[00:08:22]>> Equilibrium.

[00:08:23]>> Oh, right.

[00:08:24]>> Gun Carter. Cuz it's a great movie. It's a classic.

[00:08:27]>> It's Yeah, it's all right.

[00:08:29]>> Equilibrium, right? Not not a good movie. Sorry. But um [laughter] there's like a trifecta of movies that this movie Lost Highway reminds me of and they're a bit weird because it's the Matrix, Dark City, and Equilibrium. And it is that just that sort of weird late ' 90s flavor.

[00:08:52]>> I guess it must be.

[00:08:54]I don't know. I can definitely see a bit of crossover with Dark City because of like the neon noir feel of them both.

[00:09:02]>> Yeah. um less so the other two.

[00:09:06]>> Well, I think The Matrix and Dark City are the same movie in my brain. They use a lot of the same sets and um >> I guess the sort of duality of personhood. I guess also Lost Highway could have been one that you picked in your last season.

[00:09:23]>> Yeah, we have we have covered Dark City.

[00:09:26]>> Yeah. And there's Yeah, there's a lot in common. That part where Rufus Saul turns into Balth Saretti, obviously.

[00:09:33]>> Yeah, [laughter] exactly.

[00:09:35]>> That happens more than you care to admit, really.

[00:09:38]>> What happened to Rufus S? Where did he go?

[00:09:41]>> Um, he played Prince Andrew a few years ago in a Netflix movie. [laughter] >> No, he didn't. No, he didn't. He was in that Pizza Express, remember?

[00:09:51]>> Oh, yeah. That was it. Not sweating.

[00:09:53]>> Yeah.

[00:09:54]>> Yeah.

[00:09:54]>> Yeah.

[00:09:54]>> Yeah.

[00:09:55]>> Do you know what? I didn't even realize that Marilyn Manson was in this movie. I had no idea. He's in it for like a frame, right?

[00:10:02]>> Yeah. A frame too much.

[00:10:04]>> Yeah.

[00:10:05]>> Yeah. We don't like him, do we?

[00:10:07]>> No. My second favorite Marilyn Manson movie >> after >> Party Monster.

[00:10:13]>> Oh, yeah. You didn't like that, did you, Dan?

[00:10:17]>> Uh, I don't remember it.

[00:10:19]>> Oh, >> it was very memorable.

[00:10:22]>> I think so. I know. I made you watch it about a year ago.

[00:10:26]>> No, I'm terrible with titles. If you described it to me, I'd probably remember it.

[00:10:31]>> Heyo.

[00:10:32]>> That's um that's a different tangent.

[00:10:34]>> Yeah.

[00:10:35]>> Did you know that Balfaretti was in um Megalopoulos?

[00:10:39]>> Um I didn't until I looked it up today.

[00:10:42]>> I don't remember him in that film.

[00:10:45]>> I haven't seen that, Jamie.

[00:10:46]>> I haven't seen Megalopouloolis.

[00:10:48]>> Oh my god. We had the displeasure of seeing that at the cinema.

[00:10:54]I think there were about 12 people at the start of the screening. By the end of it, there were about five of us left [laughter] >> and we were very drunk.

[00:11:03]>> I love like an overblown failure. So, I think that maybe I'm the target audience for Megalopolis.

[00:11:10]>> Maybe you'll get a lot out of it. Yeah.

[00:11:12]>> Yeah. It's ambitious but uh ridiculous.

[00:11:18]>> Yeah. It's not good by any metric.

[00:11:22]>> It's awful. It's awful.

[00:11:24]>> I I I've got a question actually. The first question I want to ask is do you think they ever found the highway and I'll open that up to the floor?

[00:11:33]>> No, I think it's I think it remains lost to this day.

[00:11:37]>> They happened upon it a couple of times, didn't they? But then they they lost it again.

[00:11:41]>> Yeah, >> I remember seeing it a few times.

[00:11:45]>> It's always in the last place you look.

[00:11:48]>> Yeah.

[00:11:51]What? Interestingly, I didn't know until doing research for this show, but Lynch apparently said a few years after this came out that he was subconsciously influenced by the OJ Simpson trial, >> which >> Yeah, I we saw that. So, I I heard that today somewhere, but um that's interesting, isn't it?

[00:12:10]>> Yeah, I mean, it makes sense. four years after that.

[00:12:13]>> Yeah, it must have been pretty close.

[00:12:16]But it makes sense in terms of the themes of the film, but also the the Highway Chase stuff, but he didn't realize it at the time. It was years after that it occurred to him.

[00:12:25]>> Yeah. I think that like David Lynch maybe doesn't experience time in the same way that the rest of us do anyway.

[00:12:32]>> Certainly not now.

[00:12:33]>> Well, yeah.

[00:12:36]>> I don't think meditation.

[00:12:38]>> Yeah, true. I don't think he experiences much in the same way that the rest of us do. I think he was sort of in a league of his own.

[00:12:45]>> Yeah. There's a really good story from Henry Rollins from the set of this where he would have all of his conversations through a megaphone.

[00:12:53]>> Okay.

[00:12:53]>> Because he because he thought it sounded cool. [laughter] And he also wore a cap with like a really really long peak [laughter] so like no one could get within a foot of him.

[00:13:04]>> Oh, I like that.

[00:13:06]I'm surprised people didn't market that during the pandemic.

[00:13:09]>> Yeah, why not? That sounds like the best tool for that.

[00:13:13]>> I spent I spent hundreds of thousands putting in plastic screens that they took out 3 months later.

[00:13:19]>> Could have just big hats.

[00:13:21]>> Yeah. And you can retrofit that as well.

[00:13:23]It's not like you need to manufacture new hats. You can just manufacture new peaks and clip them onto the front of the peaks. This is genius.

[00:13:30]>> Yeah. If you did two twin peaks.

[00:13:33]>> Yeah. [laughter] I like it.

[00:13:36]>> Bringing it back. Jamie, are you a Twin Peaks fan?

[00:13:39]>> I am a Twin Peaks fan, but and this is a big bone of contention uh between me and Sam on Final Transmission is that I've not watched The Return.

[00:13:48]>> Oh, I haven't either. I really like the original series, but I've never watched the third season.

[00:13:54]>> Yeah, I I I'll get to it eventually. I just sort of am worried it's going to be crap. And I'm sure it's not going to be crap, but like the those first two series, the first series especially, are some of the best things that have ever existed.

[00:14:11]>> It's pretty special.

[00:14:13]>> Yeah.

[00:14:13]>> So, if the if the subsequent stuff is not to your taste, will it affect your viewing? Will like if you go back to series one or two?

[00:14:23]>> I mean, it depends on what happens if if >> Okay.

[00:14:26]>> I guess if like I don't know. It's sort of already kind of ruined. Series two kind of undercuts series one. So if series 3 undercuts both of them, then it would be it would be really really bad.

[00:14:41]>> Yeah. How do you feel about the movie?

[00:14:44]>> I like the movie because I saw it first, I think.

[00:14:47]>> Oh, okay.

[00:14:49]>> Because they they I remember they released it in the UK before the show as like a standalone. Remember they used to do that when it was like they would they would cobble together like two episodes of a TV show and release it as a movie.

[00:15:02]>> Yeah. like a bunch of like >> the Flash with John Wesley ship where they would just like bung two episodes together >> and release it as like a featurelength movie and it's like okay yeah I guess this is a movie but like the characters all change halfway through >> right yeah I I know exactly what you're talking about because I remember the first XFiles episodes I watched were um the two Eugene Victor Tombs ones that were packaged together >> was very strange >> yeah I'm a go on >> do you think Americans thought that we couldn't handle like long form narrative seasons of shows and we could only the the the British attention span is famously only 90 minutes or something >> maybe. I don't think that's one of our stereotypes though, is it?

[00:15:47]>> No. Bad teeth and bad uh attention >> food. They don't like our food.

[00:15:54]>> Well, I think they're coming around to it based on >> Okay.

[00:15:57]>> all of the stuff that I see on Tik Tok.

[00:15:59][laughter] Okay. Yeah. No, I'm a big fan of um Twin Peaks Firewalk with me. I would go as far as to say I enjoy the film more than the show >> and I like the show a lot.

[00:16:12]>> But yeah, the it's um it's pretty divisive, isn't it?

[00:16:17]>> I think like one of the things in the show that is massively underused is is um the girl that plays Laura Palmer.

[00:16:26]>> Okay.

[00:16:27]>> So like there's a lot more of her in Firewalk with me. So, I really rate that.

[00:16:33]>> Yeah. Yeah, she's great. Um, I'm struggling to remember her name now. My brain my brain's just saying Cherylyn Fen, but I know.

[00:16:40]>> Literally, mine, too.

[00:16:41]>> Yeah, I know that's not right.

[00:16:43]>> Cheryl Lee.

[00:16:44]>> Ah, there we go. And you don't even like it.

[00:16:47]>> That's >> cuz I like John Carpenters's vampires.

[00:16:50]>> Oh, [laughter] >> how do you feel about John Carpenters's?

[00:16:54]No. Well, not John Carpenters vampires.

[00:16:57]Delos Muertos or whatever it's called.

[00:16:58]The second one with Bonjovi.

[00:17:01]>> Oh, the one with Bonjovi.

[00:17:03]Oh, Lord. Um, I think I rented it cuz I liked the first one, but it wasn't very good if I remember correctly.

[00:17:10]>> It's a shame. Bonjovi could have been could have been a real a real guy.

[00:17:15]>> He was a rising star then. Rising star Bonjovi.

[00:17:19]>> Just living on a >> him [snorts] and Balfa Zaretti.

[00:17:22][laughter] >> He was halfway there. I mean, if he'd have just carried on, he could have uh he could have got there. Please stop.

[00:17:30][laughter] >> No. No more Bonjovi puns.

[00:17:33]>> Yeah, this is it's weird that they didn't put him in a western because he is a cowboy. [snorts] [laughter] >> It's bad enough when there's only one of you.

[00:17:45]>> Yeah, he was he was a he was quite in demand. I heard he was wanted dead or alive.

[00:17:53]>> I don't know an awful lot more joy songs. No, that's that's it for me, I'm afraid.

[00:17:58]>> Probably for the best. Um >> Oh, no. Do you know what though? I think I can't remember what his last role was, but I heard he went down in a blaze of glory [snorts] >> something something.

[00:18:07]>> Yeah.

[00:18:09][laughter] >> Does um does David Lynch always write his movies? Does he write does he like co-write everything? Because I know this had um this was co-written by who was it? Barry, I was going to say Barry Gibb.

[00:18:21]>> Gford. Yeah, >> definitely not Barry Gibb. [laughter] Um but but Lynch is credited as a co-writer. So what's does anyone know the situation there of Jamie as the world's leading expert in David Lynch?

[00:18:32]Does he write his stuff? Does he tell someone else his ideas? Is it a more collaborative approach? Any >> This is a a really good question for the for the leading expert in David Lynch.

[00:18:43]>> Well, I'm glad you're here then.

[00:18:45][laughter] >> Um he is credited as a writer on all of his movies. I don't know like what his writing process actually looks like, but he does tend to have a co-writer or a or a collaborator on on most things.

[00:19:04]And I think that it's everything that he makes has a sort of similar flavor, but also a very different flavor. And I have to attribute that to to him working with different different writers.

[00:19:23]>> I I've actually I thought I'd seen more Lynch, but doing research for the show, he's only made 10 movies, 10 narrative features, and I've only seen two of them, including Lost Highway.

[00:19:34]>> So, um I've seen Moholland Drive. I've seen Lost Highway. And for me, they're very similar movies. They're both LA movies. I know his last >> his last movie Inland Empire was also an LA based movie, >> but for so for me out of the the David Lynch um stuff that I've seen, it's very similar um or it feels that way anyway.

[00:19:54]But it you could always I think I feel like I could tell a Lynch thing a mile um really. But then there's a lot of copycats as well. There's a lot of people particularly recently a lot of films I've seen and it feels sort of David Lynch. It's just his sort of flavor. So I I would have been very surprised if he didn't have a hand in writing all of his movies and it feels like sort of control that he would be unwilling to relinquish I guess cuz he's a he is a he's an he was an artist wasn't he like of many sort of >> areas and I know that the Barry Barry Gibb the the writer on on um Lost Highway before he had his music career he uh he was also a poet and an author um or he is I'm not not sure if he's alive or not, but he was a poet and an author, like very literary type person. And I guess that's where a lot of the more intellectual stuff comes in. Um, and then that's when I sort of get lost and I'm like, I don't get this.

[00:20:51]>> This is a bit much for me.

[00:20:53]>> Um, but I can tell he's style of milof and yeah, I'm I would have been surprised if he didn't write all of his stuff or at least have a a major major influence in it. There was what wasn't there one film that was kind of off the beaten track for him that's a bit out of left field? What was that called? The straight story. Was it that one?

[00:21:13]>> Oh yeah. Is that the Harry Dean Stanton driving drives a tractor thing?

[00:21:18]>> Is it?

[00:21:18]>> It sounds great.

[00:21:19]>> I don't think it's Harry Dean Stanton, is it?

[00:21:21]>> Is it not?

[00:21:22]>> I think he's in it, but I don't think he's the he's the guy.

[00:21:25]>> Oh, okay. I've never seen it. I remember it came out in the late 90s. I want to say like 99 maybe. Yeah, >> that's um probably his most linear movie.

[00:21:38]>> It's a straight story, you must say.

[00:21:40]>> Yeah. Although I think I think that um The Lost Highway is is for Lynch for for Lynch in this period as well.

[00:21:51]Maybe like maybe one of his more linear films. I out of the two that I've seen, Moholland Drive and this one, I I I think I know roughly what happens in this one.

[00:22:03]>> Yeah.

[00:22:03]>> Um and Moholland Drive, it seems to me that uh it I don't know. Some some small blue people ran out of a box or something. [laughter] >> And I'm not sure why.

[00:22:17]>> No, I No, I think like I in terms of story of this one, like there's loads that I don't understand. it just goes way over my head. But I think I've got the basics down.

[00:22:27]>> Um, and I'm happy with that.

[00:22:29]>> I've got a question for you, for both of you really.

[00:22:34]Is Fred Madison the alpha or is Pete Dayton the alpha?

[00:22:42]Like does does does Fred Madison imagine that he's Pete Dayton or does Pete Dayton imagine that he's Fred Madison?

[00:22:53]>> Personally, I think it's the first one.

[00:22:55]I think Fred is our protagonist.

[00:23:00]>> Um, but there are there are so many different theories out there. I don't know. There are there are theories that both of them are valid, both of them are real, and that the stories are happening concurrently, and I can't say I can really wrap my head around that, but um but no, I think Fred's our guy.

[00:23:19]>> Okay.

[00:23:21]>> I agree.

[00:23:23]>> Anything to add? [laughter] >> I agree. Well, firstly, you just want Bill Pullman to be real, and he is, so it's fine. Um secondly, um I think for me, yeah, Bill Pullman is the real one.

[00:23:37]He imagines Balthazar Getty, uh as a sort of disassociative, um thing. When he's in prison, oh, I've done this terrible thing. I want to become [snorts] not consciously someone else.

[00:23:49]There's I mean, it doesn't mean that everything else fits into that cuz a lot of things I think might seem contradictory to that, >> but I think for me, that's what it's doing. And I've struggled to see it any other way. I think because at that point to me it's starting to over complicate things and I'm like nope that's too much for me.

[00:24:07]>> I know what you mean. That's like the most straightforward way to interpret it, isn't it?

[00:24:11]>> Yeah. I think I think that's right as well. I think that's >> what what David Lynch is getting at is the idea of like like I think the key to the movie like the key that unlocks the movie for me is the scene where um Fred is talking to the cops and he's talking behind us.

[00:24:27]>> Oh yeah, the video came. cameras because he wants to he wants to remember things in his own way.

[00:24:34]>> And I think that like >> he's remember I think the Bazar Getty stuff is him remembering his life up until the point that he murdered Renee.

[00:24:43]>> Right. Okay.

[00:24:45]>> And him interpreting it differently to make her the villain when really he's the villain.

[00:24:52]>> Yeah, I like that.

[00:24:55]Yeah. I ultimately I think it's about sort of like guilt and shame and the ways that we can kind of distort things in our mind to run away from that maybe.

[00:25:04]>> Yeah. And like the the scene that you touched on just there then Jamie with um how he wants to remember he wants to remember things the way he wants to remember them not the way that they actually happened. That was a huge line for me as well. Gave clued me into I knew that was important at the time.

[00:25:21]>> Um but it clued me into it for sure. And it's a very interesting um subject as well. It's something I thought a lot about about memory and what's true and what's not. Um so it is interesting that they choose to go down that road. I guess it's the perfect kind of theme for Lynch, isn't it? As well because it's so subjective in your mind. That's what he's all about. Let's confuse things.

[00:25:44]Let's muddy the waters.

[00:25:46]>> You do all the work. I'm not explaining anything.

[00:25:49]>> Yeah. I'm going to make you more confused.

[00:25:52]>> Yeah. And I really respect David Lynch for that. I think >> I mean I've talked about this quite a lot um more generally, but like I think that we have too much access to the people behind movies these days.

[00:26:06]>> Yeah. Like um I don't know when this is coming out, but like really recently Zack Kger has been talking about his new Resident Evil movie and basically has alienated all of the Resident Evil fans before the trailer even came out because he's talking about it like sort of existing separately from all of the Umbrella stuff.

[00:26:29]>> And it's just like if you hadn't said that and you just dropped a trailer, people would be like, "Well, that looks [ __ ] cool."

[00:26:35]>> Yeah.

[00:26:35]>> Yeah. No, I know exactly what you mean.

[00:26:37]Like we've talked about similar things on the show quite a bit in the past. I am not a fan of like people that you would term movie stars cuz I know too much about them. I don't like watching Tom Cruz in something cuz I know who Tom Cruz is.

[00:26:51]>> Yeah.

[00:26:52]>> I know way too much about him.

[00:26:54]>> So I think that's one of the reasons I sort of gravitate towards independent movies cuz who the [ __ ] is this guy? I know nothing about him. It's not going to cloud my judgment.

[00:27:02]>> Yeah. If their star never rises, you can spend your [laughter] entire life watching Basetti movies and never.

[00:27:09]>> This is true. I know nothing about that guy.

[00:27:12]>> Yeah, he was in Young Guns 2. Sarah, >> that's true. Yeah, sorry. I know two things about that guy.

[00:27:19]>> It's the greatest Young Guns movie ever made. [laughter] >> I heard that they're making another Young Guns.

[00:27:26]>> How can they? It's called Young Guns.

[00:27:29]>> Old Guns, [laughter] >> obviously. [gasps] Yeah. Um, >> geriatric guns.

[00:27:36]>> Lou Diamond Phillips keeps promoting it, but it's like, guy, you didn't survive Young Guns 2.

[00:27:43]>> Spoilers.

[00:27:45]>> Come on. [laughter] >> Everyone's seen Young Guns 2.

[00:27:49]>> But Young Guns 2 also is based on like >> real life >> lies. Real the lies of a real life person, right? who sort of turned up in the in the 40s and was like, I'm I'm Billy the kid.

[00:28:05]>> I'm uh Amelio West and therefore you have to believe this story. So maybe old guns will be like, do you know what?

[00:28:18]Actually, Lou Diamond Phillips survived and he's telling the story.

[00:28:23]>> I'm going to pull the old unreliable narrator.

[00:28:26]>> Yeah. Gotcha.

[00:28:28]>> They won't do that, Jamie, because that idea is way too smart.

[00:28:31]>> I really like it.

[00:28:33]>> Well, when it comes out, you'll have to come back on the show when we um do our Estz's best season.

[00:28:39]>> Yeah. I mean, if we're doing that, then that would be Repo Man. That would be my pick for that season.

[00:28:43]>> Agreed. But Dan hates it.

[00:28:45]>> You hate Repo Man?

[00:28:47]>> I I do. I do. I hate Repo Man.

[00:28:49]>> No, didn't like it. Let's say that.

[00:28:52]>> Did we watch it together?

[00:28:53]>> No.

[00:28:54]>> Right. Well, your letter box tells me that you didn't like it.

[00:28:58]>> Okay. There's a bunch of movies that I've seen that I don't remember seeing.

[00:29:02]Um, but uh, Estz is best of is genuinely a lineup that I want to get to soon.

[00:29:09]And, um, I know that you love it, Jamie.

[00:29:11]So, we would be honored if you would come on for Repo, man.

[00:29:15]>> Yeah, you could just hear me gush for >> as long as you as long as you'll let me.

[00:29:20]>> Well, it's that it'll be that or freejack. They're the two. They're the options.

[00:29:25]It's a very short season. Is that what we're doing? [laughter] >> Yeah, we're doing both of his movies, though.

[00:29:30]>> Not even Mighty Docks.

[00:29:33]>> Uh, yeah, we got to do Mighty Ducks.

[00:29:35]Yeah, we got to do Young Guns. I've got a season. I've got it I've got it locked in. I know what we're doing. Um, we I do you know what I would find really exhausting is to do an entire David Lynch season.

[00:29:47]Oh, I mean, you could have done it. You could have just done all 10 movies. We could have done a 10 episode season and done all of them, but >> it would have been a head scratcher >> outside of like the three movies that you've mentioned really like um this Holland Drive and Inland Empire. I think his other movies are fairly straightforward.

[00:30:12]Like, okay, >> Wild at Heart is, you know, Badlands on acid and like obviously a razor head is weird, but like it doesn't it doesn't matter. You're not scratching your head being like, well, that it's just like a bunch of weird visuals. It's just like being punched in the face by a custard pie or something. Like, it doesn't you don't have to think about it. It's just like, "Oh, this is vibes."

[00:30:40]And like, yeah, they're all fairly Blue Velvet again, also fairly straightforward.

[00:30:47]>> I've never seen Blue Velvet.

[00:30:49]>> Oh, it's If you want to watch King Cooper huffing on some gas, then that's uh that's the perfect movie for you >> any day.

[00:30:58]>> Yes.

[00:30:58]>> Yeah.

[00:30:59]>> And ranting.

[00:31:00]>> Perhaps Blue Ribbon.

[00:31:03]I definitely saw um I did actually see the elephant man when I was a kid, >> but it was so long ago that >> as well or not. I've seen it.

[00:31:12]>> Yes.

[00:31:12]>> Yes. The actual >> You grew up right? [laughter] >> Yeah. We're neighbors actually.

[00:31:19]>> Yeah.

[00:31:20]>> Yeah. Lived in Colchester for a bit.

[00:31:24]>> Do you think that Michael Jackson really bought his bones?

[00:31:28]>> Sorry. [laughter] There was a rumor that Michael Jackson bought John Merrick's remains.

[00:31:35]I mean, I say a rumor, there's a line in a Benic Ladies song that [laughter] refers to Michael Jackson buying um or it refers to somebody buying John Merrick's remains. And I believe it was Michael Jackson.

[00:31:52]>> I mean, it probably wouldn't have been the weirdest thing he'd ever done.

[00:31:55]>> No. Has he done other weird things, Sarah? What's he done? Let's not get into that. [laughter] >> I'm going to swerve that entirely.

[00:32:06]>> Like like we did with the Michael biopic. We swerved that one entirely, didn't we?

[00:32:11]>> Yeah. I don't I don't want to get into that.

[00:32:13]>> Didn't fancy that.

[00:32:14]>> No.

[00:32:15]>> Look how great Michael Jackson is. Is he though?

[00:32:18]>> Yeah.

[00:32:19]>> I'm not sure. Was Sorry. Do >> you remember that movie where he turned into a car?

[00:32:25]>> Sorry. What? Wasn't that Moon Raker?

[00:32:29]>> Moon Walker?

[00:32:32]>> Moon Raker's James Bond. [laughter] >> Yeah.

[00:32:34]>> He doesn't turn into a car. He's He's got a special pen or something, right?

[00:32:39]>> A magic watch.

[00:32:41]>> Yeah. Shoots out banana skins or something. [laughter] >> Yeah.

[00:32:48]So, [laughter] moving on. Um, David Lynch has kind of been, well, I've seen rumblings of like accusations of misogyny over the years.

[00:32:59]Um, from what I've seen, I don't agree.

[00:33:02]I'll say that up front, >> but what do you think of his um, like representations of women because he's quite clearly obsessed with the idea of like the fem fatal?

[00:33:12]>> Well, he's more he he's a movie guy, right? He's like an old school style Hollywood director even though he's working kind of outside the Hollywood system but but sort of >> amongst it but not really in it. And I think that like of all of those people he probably has the some of the best sort of attitudes to women.

[00:33:38]>> I think so. Yeah. I think like, you know, the fem fatal thing isn't necessarily a misogynistic thing in Lynch's eyes. It's much more of like a these are these are tropes and touchstones that I can use as like touch points in order for you to understand what's happening. So you've got something to grab hold of in a sort of freef falling weird insane narrative.

[00:34:11]>> Okay. So just like a familiar >> Yeah.

[00:34:13]>> visual. Okay. Yeah.

[00:34:16]>> What about you, Dan?

[00:34:18]>> I I think the the fem fatal um made me think of uh noir which you mentioned.

[00:34:26]And so for me it feels like more of a style than than a choice to put um women in those situations. And also I think um Patricia the Patricia Arquette in in this movie. Has she been in other Lynch films or was it just this for Patricia?

[00:34:42]>> I don't know actually.

[00:34:44]>> Was she in >> I call her Pat?

[00:34:47]>> Yeah. Was she in Wild at Heart for a bit maybe?

[00:34:52]>> I don't know.

[00:34:53]>> She feels like a Lynch person.

[00:34:55]>> Yeah, I know what you mean.

[00:34:57]>> Yeah, she does. But I see her character in this as having it's it's trick it's hard to say because I feel like the the other version of her, the blonde version of her is in the mind of Bill. But I also feel like that it could be like a fair representation of perhaps more aligned with what she wanted to be. I but I don't know if there's like um an element of suppression within the relationship if there if he was like abusive or like trying to be controlling with her. Like that's the vibe that I got >> and that she wanted to be more liberated. I don't know.

[00:35:34]>> Um but I feel like the I feel like she sort of gets her she gets the last word in a way in his dream that when he was dreaming of being >> Oh. when she says like you'll never have me or something.

[00:35:48]>> Yeah.

[00:35:49]>> Yeah.

[00:35:50]>> So, I I I quite liked that that I even though I'm not sure what's kind of real and and that's subjective, but like it feels like a complete arc to me for that character.

[00:36:01]>> I just checked and she was in another Lynch film. She was in she was in Little Nikki.

[00:36:06]>> Oh, of course. Of [laughter] course. How could I forget? Yeah.

[00:36:11][gasps] >> Did she play Little Nikki? I think she was Was she Big Nikki? [laughter] >> She might have been Big Nikki.

[00:36:19]>> It's been too long since I've seen it.

[00:36:20]Couldn't possibly say.

[00:36:22]>> She morphed into Tiny Listister Junior.

[00:36:24][laughter] [snorts] >> I I mean I love the noir stuff in this.

[00:36:29]I think like when he's sort of channeling that very like nailed on noir style, particularly on those those phone call uh shots, >> it's it's incredible. It's like almost like some of the most quintessential like noir imagery. Maybe like what I picture in my head when I think about like noir and I don't think he's doing anything particularly original or novel with it, but like it's so nailed on that it's like it's really specially good.

[00:37:00]>> Yeah. I mean visually this film is incredible.

[00:37:03]>> Yeah. I mean, that see that seems like a really easy thing to say about a Lynch movie, but >> he does have like >> I don't know, just just a perfect sort of control. Like, he knows exactly what he wants and he I don't know. He seems he seems like he would have been a perfectionist for sure.

[00:37:21]>> Yeah, this this movie was shot by Peter Deming, who obviously has worked on loads of things. The three movies that I wrote down that he worked on before this was Drop Deadad Fred's son-in-law and My Cousin Vinnie. [laughter] Um, >> okay.

[00:37:36]>> Which is, you know, I'm being in Congress, but like I think those films look really good.

[00:37:42]>> Yeah.

[00:37:43]>> Certainly. Um, they they have like, um, a distinct look. Let's say that.

[00:37:50]>> Drop Dead Fred's great. It is very colorful.

[00:37:53]>> Yeah. A thing that I noticed in the shooting of this um which is uh something is that the camera is always moving like it's I think it's shot handheld so it feels like and even if there's like these really small imperceptible movements it still sort of feels like it's very handheld and I think that is maybe to sort of tie it back into the the video camera stuff.

[00:38:22]>> Yeah. Yeah. So like and the the sort of shakiness of memory and the sort of Yeah. All of that is something that I that I I after I noticed it, I was like, well, I can't I can't unsee that now. [clears throat] >> I like that. And I think like the handheld stuff as well sort of gives it See, I'm thinking of specific scenes like when Bill Pullman's kind of walking down that corridor into the darkness.

[00:38:48]like it gives it sort of um like a more intimate almost claustrophobic kind of a feel which I guess is what he was going for in some parts at least.

[00:38:59]>> Yeah.

[00:39:00]Who is Robert Blake?

[00:39:04]Not the actor, the character. [laughter] [gasps] Um, I don't know cuz I I read a thing where he said that he suspected his character was the devil, but I don't necessarily buy into that, but I also don't have a better answer.

[00:39:24]>> I I didn't think about him being the devil. Um, I I guess I just sort of disregard him really was [laughter] mean to say. No, I I don't I feel like I'm never going to make any sense of it. So, I I sort of don't want to think about it, if that makes sense. I don't know why he's there. I don't know why he's trying to orchestrate things. Maybe he's imagined or maybe he is the devil.

[00:39:50]>> I >> Maybe he's a gingerbread man. Who knows?

[00:39:52]It's a David Hinch film. [gasps] >> I think about him as the third part of the holy trinity of these characters.

[00:40:02]He's also BA Zaretti and >> Oh, okay.

[00:40:06]>> and Bill Pullman. And it's like if you sort of think about it in religious terms like the father, the son, and the holy ghost. Like that kind of makes sense to me. I've seen people talk about him as sort of representing the actual truth and that's why he's often pictured with a with a video camera. So like >> the not >> the unreliabeness of memory but like the empirical truth of what actually happened.

[00:40:36]>> Um I've also seen people talk talk about him as like the conscience of Fred.

[00:40:45]I don't know about that. But like I also wrote down that is is is he a sort of vampire? like he he obviously is is done he's sort of dressed and made up to kind of look like Bella Losce in in that sort of in the well in the original Dracula movie. So like a sort of a Lynchian interpretation of of Dracula I think.

[00:41:09]>> Yeah, cuz he's got like the dark lips as well like that actors back then I guess would have had for the purposes of contrast in black and white films.

[00:41:18]>> Yeah, >> that's really interesting.

[00:41:20]So, and also like is there a scene where someone's where he's like you invited me and like am I misremembering that? Am I >> I'm struggling to think that weighing that?

[00:41:36]>> That's that does that does sound familiar? They have a few conversations.

[00:41:40]Well, the one that where they were talking about um I met your home was it there essentially?

[00:41:45]>> That's that's the first sort of meeting, isn't it? Cuz there's the scene before that where he sort of imagines Robert Blake's face on Renee, I think.

[00:41:55]>> Yeah.

[00:41:56]>> Near the start and then the first meeting is at the party.

[00:42:01][laughter] >> Yeah. Nothing but the best.

[00:42:03]>> Yeah.

[00:42:04]>> Seamlessly done.

[00:42:06]>> He was uh he was always dressed in black. Robert Robert Blake. Um, just as you were talking there, uh, could it be could you look at it in Yian terms with shadow, shadow self?

[00:42:17]>> Maybe. Yeah.

[00:42:19]>> Do the do bad things because humans have the capacity for that, too. And Robert Blake may have done allegedly.

[00:42:27]>> Well, yeah, I kind of I went down a bit of a rabbit hole about that earlier.

[00:42:31]>> Yeah, >> you did. I found you in the hole. I opened [laughter] up the I opened up the the trap door and I saw you in there. I was like, Sarah, what are you doing in this hole? This is for rabbits. Get out.

[00:42:40]>> You put me there. [snorts] >> I did. [laughter] >> No. And it suddenly occurred to me that years ago I'd listened to a true crime podcast about it cuz I recognized the name of his um wife who he may or may not have shot in a car. Who knows?

[00:42:56]>> Yeah, >> that does add a vibe, doesn't it? Like I didn't know that at the time. I found it out after when I was researching, but now when I look back at it, I'm like, "Oh, that's adds like a like who knows what really happened there." Like We've got no idea, but it does definitely adds to the eeriness of the thing and the character.

[00:43:14]>> I saw something on Reddit where someone was like, "Did he get the idea for killing his wife from this movie?"

[00:43:18][laughter] I was like, "You don't need to have been in a movie where someone kills their wife to be like, you know what? I'd never considered this before, but maybe I'll kill my wife."

[00:43:29]>> Maybe he entered some sort of um, as David Lynch would put it, psychoggenic fugue state >> and thought that Lynch was telling him to kill his wife. Who knows? Maybe that was his defense. I haven't looked into it that deeply.

[00:43:42]>> Yeah.

[00:43:42]>> Imagine if David Lynch was on the stand and he would be forced by law to explain his movies. [laughter] >> I think that's probably the only way you'd have gotten it out of him. Yeah.

[00:43:51]>> Yeah. [gasps] >> I love the soundtrack to this movie. I think Ramstein is really well used >> and unexpected.

[00:44:00]>> I mean, I I love like [snorts] ' 90s industrial David Lynch. I think that like it's so inongruous but also so perfect.

[00:44:12]>> Yeah.

[00:44:12]>> Yeah. It just like it just it's so firmly placed in 1997 and I love it.

[00:44:17]It's like yeah I was playing Wipeout listening to Chemical Brothers and all of that good stuff back then and it just Event Horizon sort of remind me a little bit of that as well.

[00:44:26]>> Yeah, I can see that.

[00:44:27]>> Um the the opening techno track that Paul WS Anderson put on that movie. Um yeah, I like I liked that part of it. I liked the soundtrack in this movie. I thought it was fun.

[00:44:39]>> Yeah, Manson.

[00:44:42]>> Yeah.

[00:44:42]>> Well, that goes without saying, doesn't it?

[00:44:46]>> I said it.

[00:44:47]>> I'll be honest, the the soundtrack doesn't do a lot for me, but I do think it's weird cuz you're right. It is really in congruous, but also at the same time kind of perfect.

[00:44:56]>> Yeah.

[00:44:57]>> Like I I can't really imagine it being replaced with anything else.

[00:45:01]Um, in that podcast I listened to from Henry Rollins, he talks about how he had these um, David Lynch has these huge speakers on set and he would like play really really loud music to um, like get people all chied up for the next scene. And he would constantly be playing Ramstein and being [laughter] like just screaming at um at Henry Rollins to like the how Rammstein was his favorite his favorite band >> through a megaphone with a giant hat on presumably.

[00:45:35]>> Yeah. [laughter] >> I think Ramstein are one of those bands that like in congruous people like he they're also Jonathan Ross's favorite band.

[00:45:47]>> No way.

[00:45:48]>> Yeah. Yeah, I definitely wouldn't have guessed that. How weird. You don't hear them crop up on soundtracks very often.

[00:45:55]Like the only other movie I can think of with a Ramstein song in it is um Lilia Forever.

[00:46:01]>> I haven't seen >> maybe maybe the most most depressing movie I've ever seen, which is saying something.

[00:46:09]>> But it worked in that as well.

[00:46:11]>> Yeah, they're um what's the word?

[00:46:16]Problematic, aren't they? Oh, are they baddies as well?

[00:46:19]>> I think so.

[00:46:20]>> Oh god. Just got to start assuming everybody is, haven't you?

[00:46:24]>> I mean, I don't know. I I I just am a vague receptacle for things that I've read on the internet. So, >> okay.

[00:46:31]>> Hash do your own research, guys.

[00:46:33][laughter] >> Always. Always.

[00:46:35]>> That's what we always say.

[00:46:37]>> Yeah. So, >> what um >> as as the premier voice on David Lynch, Jamie?

[00:46:43]>> Uhhuh. Um, what? Like, so I wrote I wrote a a note at one point that was just a very kind of flippant take a shot every time it fades to black. Is that something as somebody who's seen more of his movies than I have, is that something that he does a lot or is that sort of specific to the style he was trying to evoke in this particular film?

[00:47:06]>> I don't think it's something that he does a lot. He does use it a little bit in a razor head and like I think he has used it before in the same way that like Lawrence Kasdan sort of uses those weird wipes.

[00:47:21]>> Yeah. Okay.

[00:47:22]>> But like you only really think of it in Empire Strikes Back. So like or Return of the Jedi. Empire Strikes Back. Uh so like um this is I I think his most fade to blackie movie.

[00:47:38]>> Okay. It sort of fits with the the noir aspect, I think.

[00:47:42]>> Yeah. And like he's he's sort of drawing you into the darkness. It's I feel like >> the way that um that Bill Pullman is lit all the way through this. I think it's the um when I mentioned like the Matrix and Dark City, I think it's the lighting, the way that characters faces are lit more than anything else that really sort of reminds me of those. But like it does have that really sort of almost black and white no contrast approach to lighting specifically Bill Pullman.

[00:48:18]Sort of the way that um who directed the Adams family but you know like how every time you get a Warner of uh Morticia it's like >> oh yeah like the universal monsters lighting.

[00:48:30]>> Yeah.

[00:48:31]>> Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I can see that. So, I watched um in my research, I watched a couple of YouTube videos. One of the creators was called Place Real, I believe, and I can't remember the other one, but I will try and put it in the notes. But there was um there's a theory that this was sort of David Lynch's response to circular plagiarism, I guess, because obviously his early films happened and then um Oliver Stone made I think there's a TV miniseries called Wild Palms that was referenced and Naturalborn Killers and Tarantino uh wrote True Romance and Then Lost Highway apparently is like his response to that to the to the accused plagiarism of those projects like cribbing from his earlier work.

[00:49:27]>> Like I I can see that. But then Wild at Heart is cribed from Badlands and Bonnie and Clyde. So like it's okay >> maybe that's part of that circular plagiarism is like that >> people are iterating generationally. I haven't seen this video, so maybe that's this what they they touch on. But like, yeah, that sort of generational iterative approach. I was thinking when I was watching Lost Highway for this, um, and it might just be because I'm in the middle of a lost rewatch, but I was like the sort of JJ Abrams mystery box approach to like media creation that spawned like you drew Godards and and and many other people. And that feels like a very sort of Hollywood brat interpretation of like the stuff that David Lynch is doing. I feel like there's a a real through line between like this movie specifically and something like Lost.

[00:50:24]>> Yeah, I could see that actually. I wouldn't necessarily have put that together myself, but I can see it. Yeah, I think like someone like a J.J. Abrams is a lot more interested in hearing himself speak and therefore will will will like make his way to an ending even if it's nonsense. I like the loss, whatever. But like >> like they they'll they'll sort of explain too much and it'll become like all right if I didn't what I didn't know this was great.

[00:50:55]>> Yeah. Didn't need to be spoonfed.

[00:50:57]>> Yeah. We don't need to know why the polar bears were there.

[00:51:01]>> No.

[00:51:02]>> Although they do sort of tell you, don't they?

[00:51:05]>> Yeah. But yeah, [sighs and gasps] >> Lost was good. Well, Sarah, you enjoyed that show, didn't you?

[00:51:14]>> I I did. I actually did.

[00:51:16]>> It's a good show.

[00:51:17]>> We Yeah, we binged it last year, was it?

[00:51:20]>> Yeah. Had you not watched it before? I'd watched season one when it first aired and for whatever reason never returned to it, >> but um yeah, I got super into it.

[00:51:31]>> We binged it really quickly.

[00:51:33]>> Yeah, we stormed through it. I found it like a surprisingly easy watch.

[00:51:38]>> Yeah, >> I think like >> Yeah, especially if you are watching it that way. If you are binging it. I remember back in the day like I I think I watched the first two seasons when it aired, I think, and then I dropped off.

[00:51:49]But then when another couple of seasons came out, I went and rented them from Blockbusters. That's how long ago that was. And then uh caught up with them.

[00:51:56]>> I was watching it completely legally and not using anything on the internet. And um because I had to wait a week, sometimes way longer between episodes like or seasons or whatever. I would watch the episode like four or five times.

[00:52:12]>> Wow. in between because I just I loved it so much and I was like I was one of those absolute marks for it where I would just be looking at everything in the in the back and digging into stuff and being on forums and all kinds of [laughter] idiot stuff.

[00:52:31]>> World's uh world's leading expert on lost. [laughter] You have to come on when we do lost.

[00:52:37]>> Yeah.

[00:52:39]do a lost season where it's you do all six seasons of Lost, Lost in Translation, uh, and that's it.

[00:52:48]>> There's a [laughter] movie called Lost Paradise.

[00:52:52]>> Um, >> oh, there's Lost Highway. We could do that. We could do it again.

[00:52:56]>> Let's not do that.

[00:52:57]>> Yeah, [laughter] >> we'll we'll morph into younger versions of ourselves and do it again.

[00:53:01]>> If only that was real. I would love that. I want 25year-old Sarah's joints back, please.

[00:53:09]So do I. I want my 25-year-old joint back, too.

[00:53:12]>> I thought you meant Sarah. [laughter] >> If you were going to morph into a young actor, which young actor would you pick?

[00:53:23]>> Which rising star would you? [laughter] >> Balfa Saretti.

[00:53:27]>> It would not be Balfa Saretti. No, that's that's an interesting question.

[00:53:32]Based on based on what? Based on how they look. based on their acting prowess.

[00:53:39]>> I don't know. I guess they have to be a sort of similar vibe to you. I I think that I don't know the the weird sort of Mike Pattonness of Ba Saretti kind of tracks to Bill Pullman's character in this. So, I think the vibers have to they have to sort of embody some sort of vibe that current you would have.

[00:54:02]>> Oh, I don't know. See, there's a couple, but it would just be pure wish fulfillment on my part [laughter] >> and not based on vibes.

[00:54:10]>> Do you know what my answer would be? My answer would be um I want to turn into Jared Leto and I'll jump off a bridge.

[00:54:16][laughter] >> Simple. Do some good for the world, you know?

[00:54:21]>> I like it.

[00:54:22]>> I don't want to be anyone else, so I might as well may as well become him for 20 seconds.

[00:54:28]>> As long as it takes me to find a bridge.

[00:54:30]Yeah. If there's no bridge nearby, then I'm sure I can find some petrol and a lighter. [laughter] >> Do you have an answer, Jamie?

[00:54:40]>> Uh, Chunk from the Goonies. I don't know.

[00:54:43]Um, [laughter] >> isn't he like now? Yeah.

[00:54:49]>> Yeah. Uh, Sabrina Carpenter. Uh, >> interesting. Okay.

[00:54:56]>> Ryder Strong when he was in Boy World.

[00:54:59]>> He had very good hair. He did. So, I mean, that's I don't have any hair, so that doesn't work. Um, a young actor that's working now, all I can think of is the kids from Stranger Things. Are they the They're the only [laughter] young actor.

[00:55:14]>> They're the only ones. Yeah.

[00:55:15]>> Yeah.

[00:55:16]>> And they're in their 30s now.

[00:55:20]>> Yeah. Finn Wolfhard.

[00:55:23]>> Great name.

[00:55:24]>> I've got a question. Um, who do you think is the horniest David out of Lynch and Croninberg?

[00:55:32][snorts] >> Croninberg, >> do you reckon? I think I I think I'm probably leaning towards Croninberg.

[00:55:38]>> Yeah, >> lots of crash the other day, didn't you?

[00:55:40]>> I [laughter] did. Yeah. With that fresh in my mind, definitely Croninberg.

[00:55:45]>> Have you Have you considered the the Crash Tatan like double bill?

[00:55:51]>> I I like both movies, so it'll probably happen one day.

[00:55:55]>> Yeah.

[00:55:57]I love James Speder and I will watch him in everything including The Blacklist which I'm currently watching. [laughter] >> Robert California.

[00:56:07]>> Yeah. I I I me and my my ex made me watch um The Office cuz I'd never watched it. I like I'd seen bits of it but I never got into it.

[00:56:17]and we watched I don't know however much of it we'd watched and then I was like, "Oh, James Sper showed up. Now it's got good." [laughter] >> Oh, so your your journey was the complete opposite to everybody else.

[00:56:30]>> Literally, I quite I quite like Katherine Tate.

[00:56:34]>> No, can't stand.

[00:56:37]>> I I didn't I didn't care much for Idris Elbow.

[00:56:40]>> Okay.

[00:56:41]>> Controversial opinion.

[00:56:44]>> I mean, in in the office, not generally.

[00:56:46]>> Yeah. I'm not a racist. [laughter] I like the wire.

[00:56:50]>> Look, you said it. I was I didn't throw around a single accusation. That sounds like something a racist [laughter] would say.

[00:56:57]>> I feel like a racist wouldn't say I'm not a racist.

[00:57:00]>> That's true. A covert racist. Yeah.

[00:57:03]>> But they don't tend to be, do they? like when um Nor McDonald went on Larry King and said that he's very deeply closeted and Larry King was like, "So, you're gay?" And he's like, "Well, no, I'm not gay."

[00:57:20][laughter] >> Okay.

[00:57:21]>> If if I if I said that I was gay, then I wouldn't be closeted.

[00:57:26]>> Oh, I see. Clever.

[00:57:28]>> Yeah. [laughter] I'm not racist.

[00:57:33]I knew that he wasn't racist when you joined the call, Jamie, cuz uh you're wearing that black and white minstrels t-shirt.

[00:57:39]>> Yeah.

[00:57:40]>> I mean, the t-shirt is black and white and I just love the chocolate. That's it.

[00:57:46]>> Very good. Swerve it. A confectionary.

[00:57:49]>> Exactly. Do you film the film that we're talking about? [laughter] In fact, not the film. Do you think that Bill Pullman, and I had never noticed this before, do you think that he looks like Kieran Kulkin?

[00:58:06]>> Oh my god.

[00:58:07]>> Never thought about that before either.

[00:58:08]>> There are some shots in this movie where I paused it and I was like, I'm looking at Kieran Kulkin.

[00:58:12]>> Oh, don't ruin him for me.

[00:58:15]>> It's the floppy hair, isn't it?

[00:58:16]>> Yeah, maybe.

[00:58:17]>> Oh, no.

[00:58:18]>> Do you not like Kieran Kolkin?

[00:58:20]>> I I like Kieran Kolkin just fine. I just don't fancy him.

[00:58:24]>> Okay. Or maybe I do apparently. Who knows?

[00:58:28]>> Maybe this has unlocked something.

[00:58:30]>> Yeah, >> Bill Pullman and Bill Paxton were like interchangeable to a lot of people because of their names, I guess.

[00:58:38]>> Yeah.

[00:58:39]>> But I I think for maybe 20 years of my life, I thought Bill Pullman was in Dumb and Dumber. [laughter] >> Oh, Jeff Daniels. Yeah. No, I I get that.

[00:58:50]>> Yeah.

[00:58:50]>> Yeah, I could see that.

[00:58:52]>> Have either of you Sorry. Go on. Yeah, go on.

[00:58:56]>> Um, I was just going to say, have either of you heard the theory that this film is kind of, I guess, a treaty on film itself?

[00:59:06]>> I haven't heard that, but I always hate that as a as an explanation for films.

[00:59:11]>> There is some compelling evidence, though.

[00:59:13]>> Well, lay it lay it on me.

[00:59:15]>> Okay. Well, the video that I watched kind of went through a bunch of stuff.

[00:59:18]There are a couple moments where it looks like Bill Pullman specifically is kind of breaking the fourth wall, like staring straight down the lens.

[00:59:26]>> Um, and there aren't really any other explanations that would make that make sense. Um, there's a lot of stuff in terms of again when he walks down that corridor into the darkness, the the the general thinking in this theory is that he's sort of walking off set because everywhere outside of set is in like shrouded in darkness and only the actors, you know, um, in place are being lit. um the part where they they leave the party and they come home early and they see the lights in the house. The theory is that that's the lighting crew setting up because the characters are back early. The stuff with the video camera cuz it looks more professionally filmed than you would expect from somebody with a a handheld camcorder.

[01:00:16]as the world's foremost um lintologist I think um and this is the thing on the the compelling evidence that you've seen but the way that you've laid it out that that's that's bollocks >> there is a lot more than just that like this was an hourong video that I watched >> okay >> so I there's no way for me to break it down in a in a more succinct way really but um yeah I'm not sure I'm not sure I buy the theory either, but it was definitely interesting. And I just I appreciate a film that spawns so many different theories.

[01:00:54]>> I I like some ambiguity in my movies.

[01:00:58]>> Had a few of those recently, haven't we?

[01:01:00]>> Yeah. I mean, >> an ambiguous one, especially in this season.

[01:01:03]>> I was going to say ambiguity and mindbending stuff tend to like seems to go hand in hand with liinal spaces for whatever reason.

[01:01:11]>> Yeah.

[01:01:11]>> Confusion is a big one, isn't it?

[01:01:14]confusion for you on my part. Yeah.

[01:01:16]>> Yeah.

[01:01:17]>> What do you think is is the liinal space in Lost Highway? Do you think it's the space between Fred and Pete? Like where do you see that limonality?

[01:01:29]>> You could argue it's the highway itself.

[01:01:32]>> Um the Lost Highway Hotel kind of serves as a liinal space. um like a bunch of a bunch of stuff because it's it's not exactly very densely populated wherever they go >> and it all feels pretty dreamike.

[01:01:48]>> Yeah. Yeah, I was thinking about the cabin that they go to where they go to meet the fence and they have that sort of sex scene and we watch it explode and it then it unexplodes and then it explodes again and then >> like that was I had a real Okay, David, what is what's going on here then? [laughter] Yeah, I mean if you if you Google liinal space movies, which I did at the start obviously when I was putting my list together, this is on every listical this is kind of top three >> and I sort of think it has to be cuz it ticks all the boxes really.

[01:02:30]>> Is this season all just prepped to get you ready for the back rooms?

[01:02:34]>> Maybe. I am excited.

[01:02:36]>> When's that coming out?

[01:02:38]>> Soon. Yeah, >> seriously.

[01:02:40]>> Yeah, I'm looking forward to that one.

[01:02:42]>> Obviously, the the highway as a liinal space is interesting because I think what the highway in this is representing is that like highways are super linear. If you get on the road, you're going from point A to point B. If you're if you're meeting Renee and you're Fred and you're falling in love and then she's, you know, existing with her own agency and doing her own things that maybe piss you off, the end of that road is you murdering her. And it's the same whether you're Fred or whether you're Ba Saretti. Like you're you're fixed on a track and you're going from point A to point B.

[01:03:22]>> Yeah. I mean, liinal spaces can literally just be like a transitory >> space, and that's literally what roads are. So, >> yeah.

[01:03:31]>> Yeah, definitely. Do you know who we've not even talked about?

[01:03:35]>> Richard Prior.

[01:03:36]>> We haven't talked about Richard Prior.

[01:03:38]There's quite a few cast members we haven't touched on. Um, this was Richard Prior's final role, wasn't it?

[01:03:44]>> Do you think that he >> So, yeah.

[01:03:46]>> That David Lynch was just like, I think you're cool. So, I know that with Henry Rollins, he called him up or his agent called him up and was like, "David Lynch wants you to be in his next movie." And he's like, "Well, obviously I'm going to be in that movie." And David Lynch rang him and was like, "Uh, do you want to come and be in this movie?" And he was like, "Yes, I'll come wherever you want me to go now and I will sign whatever you need me to sign right now."

[01:04:13]So, I think that David Lynch is just a guy that's like, I've got the power to be like, I I like this person.

[01:04:20]>> Come on down and be in my movie.

[01:04:23]>> And >> yeah, >> that's how I would imagine that Richard Prior ends up in this.

[01:04:27]>> Yeah, probably. Cuz it's it's such a minor almost thankless role really.

[01:04:34]>> Yeah. I mean, he's >> it's his last role and I would say he's 15 seconds from literally dying.

[01:04:42]>> Yeah. He didn't look like a wellman.

[01:04:43]Let's say that.

[01:04:45]>> It was it was bittersweet for me cuz cuz Superman 3, you know, Richard Prior 80s and 90s was all over the place and I I loved him. Really funny, comedic actor.

[01:04:55]>> Yeah.

[01:04:56]>> Uh so it was really I didn't expect him to be in this and I saw him and it was great but also a bit heartbreaking but I take it. I I take it if I if I get another Richard Prior performance. But you're probably right, Jamie. Um, David Lynch is so well respected, even though his films are not, I guess, commercially successful for the most part, I'm guessing. I haven't really dug into that, but they're so critically lorded that people were falling over themselves to to work with him.

[01:05:24]>> Um, not least Giovani Rabisi, who we all love.

[01:05:29]>> Is that all of his religious?

[01:05:32]>> No, we we talk about Scientology way too much on this podcast already, so I'd like to gloss over Javanni. I didn't know that he was a Scientologist.

[01:05:40]>> No way. Did you not?

[01:05:42]>> I didn't know that. No. Oh, that's a shame. I loved Sneaky Pete. [laughter] >> I tried to. I couldn't get on with that show.

[01:05:51]>> I I mean I liked it. Who's the other guy? Who's Pete?

[01:05:57]>> Oh, Ethan Embry.

[01:05:58]>> Yeah. Like I like in So in series one, obviously he's pretending to be Ethan Embry, Gio BC. But then in season two, Ethan Embry comes back and he's like, "Well, okay, now you have to pretend to be me." It becomes a whole absolute shenanigans. It's great. I love it.

[01:06:14]>> Okay. [laughter] Well, now you're sort of selling me on it.

[01:06:17]>> Also, Ethan Embry is great.

[01:06:19]>> Agreed. Agreed. He should be in more stuff.

[01:06:22]>> He should that that scene in the guest where he is the >> gun runner or whatever, like he he's made for that now.

[01:06:31]>> Long way from Nick Papaio from Yuma.

[01:06:34][laughter] Yeah.

[01:06:38]>> Okay. So, who is that?

[01:06:39]>> Who did you want to talk about?

[01:06:41]>> Well, there's Michael Massie with >> John Wat's facial hair for some reason.

[01:06:46]>> Um, >> yeah. I mean, he gets that great that great moment where I mean, his best stuff is when he's dead.

[01:06:53]>> Yeah. [laughter] >> When he's attached to the coffee table.

[01:06:56]>> Yeah.

[01:06:58]So good.

[01:06:59]>> I do enjoy that. when he sort of dives head first into it.

[01:07:05]>> Yeah. He uh Ted Bell is directly into it [laughter] like >> Yeah.

[01:07:12]>> Yeah.

[01:07:12]>> And like it's just a really cuz like he's there in all the close-ups like it's it's just like they've cut the corner off the coffee table and he's just like leaning on it and like trying his best to be as still as possible.

[01:07:24]It's [laughter] just really good.

[01:07:27]Yeah. Who else we got? We got the the voice of Mink Stole.

[01:07:31]>> Oh, [gasps] right. Okay. Cuz I saw her in the credits and I was like, I don't remember her. I don't remember seeing her face in this.

[01:07:38]>> Yeah.

[01:07:38]>> Speaking of John Waters.

[01:07:40]>> Yeah, she's a she's very just a John Waters person forever in my brain.

[01:07:46]>> Yeah, me too.

[01:07:48]>> Um, and like we've obviously talked about Henry Rollins who's really quite bad in this.

[01:07:54]>> I don't think he's a very good actor at all. Well, he's definitely improved.

[01:07:58]Yeah, >> I will say that.

[01:08:00]>> He's a I' He should be in movies where he doesn't talk.

[01:08:05]>> He's got a good presence.

[01:08:07]>> Agreed. Did you um There was a film, God, probably about a decade ago now where he played like a fallen angel or something.

[01:08:14]>> Yeah. He never died.

[01:08:15]>> That's it. Yeah. He was all right in that I seem to remember, >> but kind of Gruff didn't say a great deal. It was sort of perfect for him.

[01:08:25]>> Yeah. I think like I'm I'm a sucker for Henry Rollins. So I'll watch anything that he's in and but I'm always just like mate be quiet. Which obviously he's not very good at doing. That's his whole his whole thing.

[01:08:38]>> He is a talker.

[01:08:40]>> Yeah. Chatty cafe.

[01:08:43]Did you know Patricia is 29 in this? She is such an ageless person. She could be 20, she could be 45. Like you would you would never know. Yeah, less so now because she hasn't done what the rest of Hollywood has done and, >> you know, deaged herself into Uncanny Valley, which I appreciate.

[01:09:06]>> Yeah, she hasn't taken the substance.

[01:09:08]>> She hasn't taken the substance. No. Um, but yeah. No, I I've always thought Patricia was a little bit sort of I I hesitate to use the word underrated cuz she's almost a household name.

[01:09:21]>> Yeah.

[01:09:22]but underappreciated maybe.

[01:09:27]It sounds weird to say that about, you know, Oscar winner, but I don't hear enough people talking about her outside of like severance these days.

[01:09:38]>> I thought she was quite bad in They Will Kill You.

[01:09:41]>> What was that accent? Oh my god. Yeah, I did quite enjoy that film though.

[01:09:49]It was a one and done, but I thought it was all right.

[01:09:53]>> I didn't care for it. [laughter] [gasps] >> But yeah, she's great in this. Um, I know I saw a brief snippet of an interview where she kind of said that she'd crafted two very distinct personalities, but then David Lynch told her to kind of do away with that because it was the same person.

[01:10:12]>> Yeah. One of them had a fringe.

[01:10:14]>> Yes. Yeah. One was blonde. That's how you know they're different.

[01:10:19]>> Yeah.

[01:10:20]I I I don't have that sort of special relationship with Patricia Rocket really. I mean, True Romance was one of the first two DVDs I ever bought.

[01:10:33]>> Okay.

[01:10:35]>> Was Good Fellas and True Romance. I think they were the only DVDs that Hour Price had [laughter] on like I don't know Boxing Day in 1999 or something when I was like I bought I've got a DVD player for Christmas so I'm going to go buy some DVDs.

[01:10:50]>> Gotcha.

[01:10:52]>> Um and like obviously she's in uh Dream Warriors.

[01:10:59]>> Mhm.

[01:11:00]>> But I've never really had that sort of very close relationship with her.

[01:11:05]>> Okay. Yeah. I I have some fond memories of watching Patricia Rette movies growing up I suppose.

[01:11:11]>> I don't know why this is really sad but the one that always springs to mind is um I don't know is it Prayer of the Roller Boys or Prayer for the Roller Boys?

[01:11:20]>> That's um it's Corey Hay and Patricia Rocket and it's written by um the person who wrote Point Break >> and it wasn't until I find I found that out that I was like it's the same film.

[01:11:33]This person's gotten away with writing the same film twice.

[01:11:37]>> Well, so is David Lynch, though, right?

[01:11:38]Like I think you're right, Dan, that like there is a lot of um connective tissue between between Lost Highway and Mull Holland Drive.

[01:11:49]>> Not least because the um the tailgating scene where Mr. Eddie kind of goes insane on that um the driver.

[01:11:58]>> Yeah. Um, apparently that is on Mholland Drive, like roughly the same place where the accident happens in Mholland Drive. So there's there's some crossover. There's some overlap.

[01:12:10]>> Yeah. I I mean, I love Moholland Drive.

[01:12:15]The film that Moholland Drive reminds me of and like in the way that this reminds me of the Matrix, like I think the Wowskis and um David Lynch are quite similar.

[01:12:28]Okay.

[01:12:28]>> Um, and so like if you think about Bound and um, Moholland Drive as like a kind of a a piece I they're super linked in my brain.

[01:12:39]>> Bound >> bound's quite noiri as well, isn't it?

[01:12:42]>> Yeah. I think like the way that I don't know if it was just the the way that we were lighting people in the in the sort of back end of the 90s, but like there's a there's a real similar look across a bunch of the Wowskis movies, a bunch of David Lynch movies, particularly this time at least.

[01:13:01]>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:13:02]>> Do you think um once again as as our resident David Lynch expert, do you think he's deserving of the reputation that he sort of accumulated over the years?

[01:13:14]>> Well, yeah, I do. I think that I think that his enthusiasm really shines through in all of his films, even when the films themselves don't feel remotely optimistic or enthusiastic in any way. Like I think that Lost Highway particularly is quite a almost like a daer film. It's like it's quite >> Yeah. Yeah.

[01:13:39]>> It's also like for a film where someone's head gets um like partly cut off on a coffee table and a bunch of stuff explodes and gangsters are going ham on people at the side of the road.

[01:13:58]Like it doesn't feel exciting. It all feels like it's it's quite low energy.

[01:14:04]>> Yeah, I know what you mean.

[01:14:05]>> But the film making never feels low energy. It feels like I don't know. It's like a Yeah, it's it sort of sweeps you up in it almost like a I don't know a Steven Wright like standup special like that sort of monotone approach but like you're still sort of following it along and laughing and and getting from from A to B or whatever.

[01:14:30]>> Yeah.

[01:14:31]>> I think I don't I think there's something really special about David Lynch in in the way that he can he can do some of that strange stuff and obviously he doesn't think in the same way that a lot of other people thinks but um he does have a sort of singular approach but also I think it's really quite accessible sort of it's not those Crisen Glover directorial movies that >> that I that I like but they're and they are obviously very influenced by David Lynch and there's a really good scene with Chris Glover in Wild at Heart um which is my favorite scene in the movie. It's just him making loads and loads of sandwiches.

[01:15:20]Um, and I think that Chris Mcman Glover was really inspired by David Lynch and that's why there's a sort of flavor in those movies, but like they feel impenetraably insane. Whereas I think even in the twistiest and most mindbending David Lynch movies, there are still like little outcrops that you can grab hold of that will that will keep you morowed for as long as you need to be.

[01:15:53]Yeah, there's there is a real sort of sense of unoring particularly in those in the three that we've sort of mentioned the most which is this Inland Empire and Moholland Drive but like the idea that we have these familiar faces and these like Hollywood actors I guess like Naomi Watts wasn't that when she was in Mholland Drive but like the the fact that these these people are people that we recognize and people that we we understand the context for more generally allows you to be able to to be a bit more loosey goosey with them. And I think that's that's the magic of David Lynch really is knowing when to be weird and when to be mainstream or not mainstream but straightforward.

[01:16:47]>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think the thing I've always sort of got the impression of is that while his films are kind of or can be quite dense and obtuse, I think was a word you used the other day when we were messaging, which is spot on. Um, it never feels sort of performative. It doesn't feel like I don't know. It doesn't feel like he's trying to be an edge lord and just be weird for the sake of it. It just feels like he's being authentic. Yeah, >> no matter how weird it gets, it feels like, oh yeah, this is it's this guy.

[01:17:23]Um, and I quite like that. And I think a lot of people have tried to ape that style. I'm not familiar with the Crisping Glover stuff that you're talking about, so I can't comment on that, but I think a lot of people try to to mimic that style, but without the capability and without the authenticity.

[01:17:38]And it just it does just come across as like, oh, this is just weird for the sake of being weird.

[01:17:45]Whereas with David Lynch, it felt like there was a point at least.

[01:17:49]>> I would really recommend those those Crisen Glover films. [laughter] >> Okay.

[01:17:53]>> If you want to watch, I don't know, a a more impenetrable David Lynch film that is cast entirely uh with people with Down syndrome, then then yeah, those Kristen Glover movies are perfect for you.

[01:18:10]>> That's exactly what I wanted to watch.

[01:18:12]How did you know?

[01:18:14]It's um he he's like um those Chris Glover movies are like David Lynch without the compassion.

[01:18:23]>> Right. Okay. That Yeah, that sounds about right. That's what I would expect from Chris and Glover to be honest.

[01:18:29]>> Yeah, I think they're great, but they're I mean, yeah, the David Lynch to me is sort of like David Burn. You can there there's a there's a way to be eccentric and obtuse in a way that people can just sort of understand and get behind.

[01:18:55]>> Yeah. I think I think it is just because it feels real.

[01:18:58]>> Yeah.

[01:18:59]>> It doesn't feel like they're putting it on. It's not a character. It's just they're just a quirky guy.

[01:19:05]>> Yeah. I wonder if did they ever work together? I wonder if they did.

[01:19:08]>> I don't know if they didn't and that was a missed opportunity. Yeah.

[01:19:13]>> What about you, Dan? Do you think you are more or less inclined to delve into more of Lynch's work now?

[01:19:20]>> Um, less.

[01:19:22]>> Less. Okay. What about Crisp and Glovers?

[01:19:26]>> Uh, I mean, I've seen Back to the Future. That's probably enough for me.

[01:19:30]>> Okay.

[01:19:31]>> Um, no. I Lynch is not my flavor really.

[01:19:34]It's not it's it's too for like I'm not bright enough for it or something like it's I get and I do agree. I think this is really his most simple film that I've seen anyway. Uh but it's still like very confusing to me and I find that so frustrating and I found this movie >> without talking. But I it's I I I also found this movie very depressing as well and it actually put me in a bit of a downer mood >> and I don't I don't like feeling that like the most the main reason I watch movies is for entertainment and also if you get a little bit extra in it then great. I do enjoy unpacking films but usually if a film is depressing to me I'm like I don't want to I don't want to think about that. I don't want to deal with that. And I did find this to be quite depressing in places. Um, but no, I I I think I think for me, I think I've just got to accept that David Lynch is just not someone for that's for me. And I'm sure we'll cover another one. I'm sure we'll watch more. Doesn't mean that I can't appreciate it.

[01:20:39]>> Um, I I I love David Lynch, the man. I He's I think he's an absolute legend.

[01:20:45]His interviews are great. like he's seemed like he's a visionary and I'm so glad that he exist he existed and bought this art which people uh really love into the world and I love it for that.

[01:20:56]It's just not it's not my flavor. It's just it's too weird for me. I like explosions and Scott Atkins movies.

[01:21:02]Sarah, you know this. [laughter] >> I was kicked in the head in this.

[01:21:05]>> I think you should give Wild a Heart a try.

[01:21:10]>> Is that the Nicholas Cage one?

[01:21:12]>> Yeah. Nicholas Cage, Laura D. William Defoe like it's very much in the Natural B One Killers um True Romance.

[01:21:26]I think it's better than both of those films and both those films are great films.

[01:21:30]>> Okay. I think yeah, if I'm going to continue my Lynch journey, I think I'm probably going to go with that one. I've always felt the need to watch a race ahead for some reason because I feel like everybody talks about it. Um, and I the po the poster, the cover image is always something that I always remember for some reason. Tall hair. [snorts] Uh, but I think Wild at Heart might be the next Lynch thing I do, but it'll be a while. I think Inland Empire. Um, 3 hours long and it's more confusing than Lost Highway. No.

[01:22:04]>> Yeah, >> I'm not even going to >> I'm on my own for that one, am I?

[01:22:08]>> If you want to watch it, you you go ahead and watch it. Let's see how long I 5 minutes in. I'll be making a cup of tea. I expect [laughter] >> I think if you're going to watch any bit of Lost of Inland Empire, there's a sitcom that's like partway through it that is just rabbits, like [laughter] a a rabbit sitcom, which was actually a short film that he made that he just sort of put into the middle of this other thing. And also, Inland Empire was the was the pilot of a TV show that never got made.

[01:22:40]>> Oh, right. So, it's basically like a a sort of nebulous string of of TV plots that didn't really get to go anywhere.

[01:22:52]>> Sounds great. [laughter] >> I mean, I the the the rabbits stuff is really good.

[01:22:58]>> Okay. Well, I'll watch it.

[01:23:00]>> You can watch that on YouTube.

[01:23:02]>> There we go. So, I think that about covers Lost Highway. Um, what are we doing next time, Dan?

[01:23:10]Well, I think you're right. I think we have covered Lost Highway. I think we've unpacked all of it and and nailed it. I think you'll agree. Jamie is the world's leading expert in David Lynch.

[01:23:19]>> We haven't solved it. So, we're >> we we we have to carry on. Right.

[01:23:24]>> I think we we've we've solved it. We solved it.

[01:23:27]>> As much as we can.

[01:23:29]>> Do you remember that bit in the middle of the show where we solved it?

[01:23:33]>> Yeah.

[01:23:34]cuz it's there's a hallway and it's dark sometimes and if you walk in it there's a magic >> nailed it.

[01:23:44]>> It's like the mask. Have you seen the mask [laughter] with Jim Kerry? Not the Eric Staltz one.

[01:23:50]>> It's like you you put a mask on and you turn into someone else. It's a bit like that, but it's David Lynch's vision.

[01:23:55]>> Yeah.

[01:23:56]>> But so he found a Balthazar Getty mask.

[01:23:58]Is what you're saying?

[01:24:00]>> Sure. Okay. I'm happy with that.

[01:24:02]>> Yeah. Um but yeah, so thanks for helping us nail that. Jamie, um Liinal spaces continues next week. Sarah, can you remember what we what we're doing next week?

[01:24:12]>> I think so. Is it Is it It follows.

[01:24:16]>> That's right.

[01:24:17]>> Oh, do another take where I say it confidently then. Yes, I know what we're doing. It's It Follows.

[01:24:24]>> Seamless. There we go. Um yeah, I've covered that movie before and I'm quite excited to talk about it again. I like that one.

[01:24:31]>> Very nice.