SERIES RECAP: Chicago Cubs WIN series in San Diego, enter May with one of the best records in MLB

Added: 2026-05-01

[00:00:03]Off the Ivy, a Chicago Cubs podcast with Dan Bernstein, [music] Mattabatakola, and Cody Delo on 312 Sports Off the Ivy on 312 brought to you by Chicago Window Guys and Russ Armstrong, the owner who's actually going to come to your home to give you the estimate and make sure that you are happy with your windows, which you will be when you call 84730. 3029171 and check out his fivestar reviews at chicago window.com.

[00:00:36]The Cubs get a 5-4 win yesterday in San Diego. They take the series uh from the Padres's. They go three and three on that West Coast road trip. They've won two games in a row. They have uh won five series on the season. They've lost five series on the season. They're 19 and 12 and a half a game behind the Cincinnati Reds with an off day today.

[00:00:58]But once again, the Cubs do take the series from the Padres's. They win yesterday five to four in San Diego.

[00:01:05]>> Yeah, it was a really fun, exciting one yesterday. A little back and forth action. Some drama, some [clears throat] sorry, some drama late and uh I would say Ben Brown saved the day like we all thought he would at some point in a uh in in spring training. And when I say we, I probably just mean me and my delusion, but actually happened. Um, [clears throat] PCA two two-run homer, back-to-back days with a homer. Matt Shaw homer off a right-handed reliever, one of the best relievers in the uh Padres's bullpen, Jason Adam, former Cubam.

[00:01:41]And uh he had a great game with Swanson sitting yesterday. I think those are the three guys who stood out to me outside of Jameson Tyion who who who really stepped up on a in a day where the Cubs needed their starter to go deep. Like those those four are the guys who stood out for me in this game.

[00:01:57]>> You know what I liked about Yeah. Go ahead.

[00:01:59]>> about Ben Brown specifically and this is just the eye test. I I haven't, you know, put this up against numbers and looked at spin rates and stuff. I like the way he uses the curveball underneath the zone where he can get that as a chase pitch rather than trying to loop that thing into the zone. If he's if he keeps spinning that thing up there like that, he the swings and misses he was getting on that were good against some good hitters. And the the key with Ben Brown then is getting ahead in the count. You've got to set that pitch up and that is going to be by by not these, you know, get me over fast balls and not, you know, 96 right there. But if if he can come up with some sequencing and match the sequencing to the execution, that curveball that ends up low is nasty. But you got to earn the right to use it that way. And you can't just get out there hoping. And you don't want to keep that thing you from from top to bottom into the zone. I want that thing starting out looking like a strike and falling like it did cuz that's nasty.

[00:03:09]>> Yeah.

[00:03:10]>> Certainly the uh hero of the game uh yesterday. I mean Corbin Martin comes in and he walks three and loads the bases and it's like well this is not the way that this was supposed to go. And then Brown Yeah, Brown was spectacular. I mean he he really was um you know you mentioned Jameson Tyion who goes seven which I just love seeing that from the starter. Another quality start for Jameson Tyion. Gives up a couple home runs which accounted for those three earned runs he did give up but he was spectacular in 95 pitches yesterday.

[00:03:36]Matt Shaw with the three hits on the on the day a double and that home run opposite field home run wasn't or no no he was was it wasn't opposite field was it?

[00:03:45]>> No field pulled it out. Um but yeah after a really rough day on uh on Wednesday uh or no today is Thursday. On Tuesday he went 0 for four. Had a tough day out in the field. He was spectacular yesterday. Really bounced back nicely.

[00:03:58]So that was that was great to see. And then of course, as you mentioned, PCA.

[00:04:02]Uh we'll see if this can get a little bit of a a slugging thing going for for PCA here moving forward.

[00:04:07]>> Yeah. You to Dan's point about Ben Brown, they pointed out on the Marquee post game yesterday, his usage with his new pitch, the sinker. He's throwing it around 42% of the time, which is actually more than his four seamer. And I think he's using that to set up the knuckle curve as you as you were alluding to, Dan. And he's even throwing the change up a little bit, but it's still less than 5% of the time. So, it's not a pitch that he loves to throw. It's not a pitch that he has a lot of confidence in. That is why last season for anyone who had any hope for him, it was always about he about him adding another pitch that he was confident in so he could set up the knuckle curve.

[00:04:50]So, uh, to to for him to for this development, uh, for him is huge. And I still think deep down the Cubs believe he can be a starter, but right now they need him in the bullpen and he has been spectacular in the month of April. And he saved the day. Of course, he induced the ground ball and it was in the perfect spot right to Matt Shaw with his foot already on second base. Hit by Machado, a guy who I think pro I think he could be a Hall of Famer one day.

[00:05:19]like we're talking about a great hitter uh over the course of time and he gets that big double play, comes out in the ninth inning, gets the first two outs and and then council brings Milner in to get the final the final out and uh yeah, that was that was a really impressive performance by Ben Brown. And yeah, I that to me is what kind of highlights the game the most. But obviously he's not in that position without PCA hitting the two-run homer, without Matt Shaw getting the insurance run. And Jameson Tyion, I mean, he was he went four point uh four and a third innings perfect before giving up the homer >> to to get to allow the first hit. Of course, it went over the fence. But what impressed me the most about Tyion is that he gave up the two homers and this isn't like the fifth inning and then he still came back out there and gave you two more clean innings. So he just kind of locked back in and you don't see that all the time especially in this era of baseball with starting pitching.

[00:06:20]>> Guys are really good early. Maybe they figure you out in the middle the late back end of your start and and then you're done. I it's very to me at least in this Cubs rotation it's rare to see guys give up runs in the fourth fifth inning time and then able to give you two more after that. So he he really was a big part in yesterday's win and just good to see like it was a a real team win. you got enough offense, your bullpen outside of Corbin Martin showed up and and and closed it down and Tyion, you know, again, for a four, five starter, like he's he's just been so valuable for this team since he got here. I mean, outside of the first three months of his Cubs tenure, like he's been spectacular really for for what they're paying him and for what his role is.

[00:07:08]>> Yeah. I almost feel like the idea of numbering the starters already at this point in the season is kind of out the window.

[00:07:15]>> You know, who whoever's got the whoever has the ball the next game is number one. Yeah. Every day you got you've got a new number one guy for that day. It seems it almost seems sort of quaint to start thinking about, well, look what you're getting out of your three or your four, man. You're going to be out of pitchers by October anyway. So for every out you can get, for every inning you can get, for every, you know, if you have a giant pile of outs that you're going to need between now and a parade, just keep getting as many as you can.

[00:07:47]>> Yeah.

[00:07:47]>> Yeah. And I think with uh looking at some positives of where the situation is with this pitching and with the bullpen in particular, that could be something where if the bullpen is healthy right now and you don't have all these injuries you're dealing with, maybe Tyion doesn't go back out there and give you two more. That's [clears throat] what we're saying about Cabrera two days ago about is right is a tiring starter like who's who is the best option to get the next couple hitters out, >> right? And so maybe this is going to influence the way Craig Counsel looks at his starters right now and says, "Hey, you know what? Maybe last year I would have pulled that guy an inning or two earlier. Now let's let's see what this and and this is going to boost their confidence and their ability to say, "Yeah, I can go a little deeper." I'm not saying it's going to it's going to buck the trend of what baseball is right now or what the Cubs are going to be, but he might be forced right now to let guys go two, three, four, five, or maybe even six more outs than he normally would have, which I I don't think is a terrible thing.

[00:08:42]>> Yeah.

[00:08:43]>> You know, I like if if a guy knows I can go seven, it's not like they're creeping into the fourth inning, going to the fifth going, "All right, I'm getting done here. Let's see how they they change the way they throw or what they throw, knowing they're coming out soon."

[00:08:55]If a guy says, "I might have two or three more innings left in me to go," I might it might look different how they approach their batters.

[00:09:02]>> Yeah. Well, and uh what's interesting about Jameson Tyion is that his he he's gotten better. He's improved as a pitcher since adding that kick change up to his arsenal last year. And uh not saying that he's >> an acer or anything like that. I'm just saying that he he has generated more swing and miss since adding that change up.

[00:09:28]>> And I I think at his at this stage in his career where he you know he's he throws 94 sometimes 95 but mainly 93 94 since since adding that change up. It's kind of I don't it it's it's been able to help extend his career as what we have grown to know him as.

[00:09:50]And it's uh it's a it's a testament to him and and and the Cubs uh pitching coaches who have helped him develop this. And it it's he's just he just doesn't get enough credit from a lot of fans in my opinion. And he he just he finds a way to keep you in the game. And yeah, he's going to give up the long ball cuz he throws 93 94 instead of 97.

[00:10:13]But man, he he limits base runners pretty well and he he just he eats innings for you even on days where he doesn't necessarily have it. I think about that start against the Pirates where he gave up the six runs, but the win conditions were terrible that day.

[00:10:27]He gave up a bunch of runs early, ends up going six, strikes out 10. Cubs come back to win that game because he was able to lock it in and eat some innings for them. Obviously, the offense was able to get going that day, but yeah, it's a it it's it's he's a guy that I just think has been more valuable than I ever thought he would be if you go back three and a half years ago.

[00:10:49]>> One other guy to mention from yesterday's game is Alex Bregman, who had a hit and walked twice. So, he was on base three times. That go back that goes back to coming in into Tuesday's game to pinch hit twice and get two hit.

[00:11:01]Pinch hit and then get two at bats. So that's five consecutive at bats he's been on base. Uh so let's you know let's see if that streak continues for him as he you know maybe that that toe is feeling better and he's getting back to it and you know another day off today he can maybe start adding adding some more slugging as well too.

[00:11:16]>> I believe Hap is on a 21 game on base streak.

[00:11:20]>> Correct. Yes.

[00:11:21]>> Yeah.

[00:11:23]>> And he went one for four yesterday with a walk two strikeouts but um >> yeah that's like third or fourth best right now in active streaks in baseball or top top five at least. Yeah. You know, you mentioned Bregman and and Bregman is the the fact that he >> has been noticeable in his lack of swinging >> because it's just sort of it's what he does is that he takes a ton of pitches inside the zone, outside the zone. He just sees a lot of pitches and we read the the Joeian analysis of just sort of putting a little warning on there and saying, "Well, wait a second. Is this a sign of trying to walk more? Is this a sign of imminent collapse of an aging player? And that's an open item right now. We don't know. It was just sort of, hey, this is incomplete data, but let's look at what he's doing. And it turns out all the Cubs are doing it. The Cubs, according to Ken Rosenthal, are last in swing rate inside the zone and third from last in overall swing percentage. Now, Ken Rosenthal says it's not simply the Alex Bregman effect, but it this remains something to watch. You know, Craig Council was a little defensive about it. He said, "We haven't had a meeting and said swing less." And if there's one guy that trumpets swing less, it's Bregman. Are guys hearing it?

[00:12:45]I don't know if I have a good answer.

[00:12:47]So, that's Greg Counsel. And then there's all kinds of data here about everybody's swing rate within the zone being down. Nico her said it's a skill set. It's a bonus, but it can limit me if it's weak contact in good outs to hit. I've known this for a long time. I know hitting the ball hard off the ground is better. He said, I don't have that down yet, but I have a better idea of pitches I hit well. And it's really interesting to think about, as we discussed yesterday with PCA, [clears throat] >> but when and where and how. And what it does is it raises the stakes when they do swing. If you're gonna swing less, you got to make it matter more when you do. However we want to say it, don't miss your pitch.

[00:13:38]>> Don't don't find that pitch and work to get that pitch and then hit it on the ground. I believe it's I believe it's mentioned in that article that the the the swing rates would actually be lower if Mo's by Steros wasn't like there because he's been swinging at the first pitch and and producing, you know. Yes.

[00:13:59]>> Uh so it is it is interesting and and there's stuff about Nicoer.

[00:14:04]>> I think it's all it mentions that his ground ball rate is down 10% to start the year and I'm not surprised by that.

[00:14:10]He's hit a lot more fly balls, a lot more line drives. obviously. Uh and yeah, it be curious to see where we're at a month from now. I don't really know how much to take away from it, but it's uh yeah, you you're right. It does raise the stakes. You got to you when you do swing, you got to make it count.

[00:14:31]>> Well, also add PCA into that Moes Bister's category of swinging early. So, yeah, th those two guys probably influence that just a little bit. Uh, one real quick thing I I want to I want to point out, Dan, we did this on a DVU show. I didn't do it with uh with Cody.

[00:14:46]I think the Cubs were in a bad spot, which I didn't want to share this with him. Uh, look at baseball reference.

[00:14:51]>> I think he can handle it. It's It's okay. I >> I don't know. We'll see. We'll see. He was He was in a delicate spot when the season >> was when they were seven and I see. Yes, [laughter] it was right around there.

[00:15:00]Uh, yeah. A matter of fact, it was when they were seven and nine. It was 16 games in. So, now that they're 31 games in, uh, we're going to take a look at this because that's approximately 20% of the season is in. Uh, Cody, when the when the Cubs were were 10% into the season, 16 games in, uh, they were the last team to make the playoffs in the National League according to baseball reference. They do a simulation of 25,000 seasons. Okay.

[00:15:24]>> They had the Dodgers, the Brewers, the Phillies, all as division winners with the Padres's, the Pirates, and the Cubs as wild card teams. the Cubs being the last team in. Uh Rangers, Yankees, Guardians, Mariners, Red Sox, Blue Jays were the American League teams. Now we jump up and we're at 31 games in. Uh they also had the Cubs after 16 games winning 83 games. That was the average.

[00:15:48]Now after 31 games, the Cubs average their win uh for the season is 89 wins.

[00:15:54]So they jumped up six games.

[00:15:57]They have the playoff teams for the National League as the Dodgers, the Brewers, the Braves, the Padres's, the Cubs as the second wildard team in the Reds being the final team in [clears throat] >> American League Yankees, Rangers, Guardians, A's, Mariners, Blue Jays. The uh Cubs uh have the second or the third the third most significant change over these last 16 games. Uh an increase of 28.4% 4% chance of making the postseason. The Braves with the greatest increase at 54.7 because of the Phillies downfall.

[00:16:31]Uh the Phillies with the most significant change of a 73.5% chance to not make the playoffs. So the the biggest drop of any team in Major League Baseball uh are the are the Phillies. So they have the Cubs move up a spot. Uh they h they still have the Brewers winning the division and the Brewers chance of making the postseason has gone from 96 to 92%. But still the favorite to win the division.

[00:16:59]>> That's so annoying. [laughter] Like there's just like the Brewers are in last right now. I believe >> I think I think they're I think they're one ahead of the somebody's.

[00:17:12]>> They're [snorts] 15 and 14. And if it makes you feel any better.

[00:17:17]>> Are they ahead of the Pirates, Dan? I think >> Well, the Pirates are Yeah, Pirates are 16 and 15. So, it's just percentage points there. But if you want to look at third order record, which is a way of interpreting runs scored versus runs allowed based on the quality of your competition.

[00:17:36]>> I'm going to say the Reds are definitely not in first place.

[00:17:39]>> The Reds are in the bottom of the division in that regard. And because they have given up more runs than they have scored >> or are they negative now cuz they were plus one yesterday.

[00:17:48]>> Well, they're they're allowed 132, they've scored 127.

[00:17:53]>> Oh, wow. Okay.

[00:17:54]>> Yeah. Wow. Is right. The Cubs are the fourth best team in baseball according to third order record. At the moment, the Dodgers would have a a record of 22 and N. The Braves would be at 20 and 11.

[00:18:10]The Yankees at 20 and 11 and the Cubs also at 20 and 11 separated by mere percentage points.

[00:18:18]>> Okay. Reds are minus5 and run differential.

[00:18:22]>> Yes, the Reds have a record of 13 and 17 according to third order record which is if not necessarily I this I need to say this over this is Klay Davenport's third order record. It doesn't tell you who's going to win the World Series, but it does a really good job of telling you who's good and who's bad.

[00:18:41]>> Yeah, because you have to look at the Red schedule and see what it is. They're they're 10 and three on the road right now in this season. You >> got the Rockies this weekend, I believe.

[00:18:48]>> Okay.

[00:18:50]>> Yeah. Um, well, anyway, I mean, related to all of this, uh, you know, those playoff odds, as annoying as it is that they still have the Brewers winning the division, I I'm not I'm not surprised by this. Um because they've won the division like last three, four years and you know they do it they do it with a team that you just they they always underrate them beginning of the year and then they go on 14game winning streaks that don't make any sense and they bunt you to death and it it's annoying. But um yeah, no, I'm what I'm what I'm curious about is who in this division is going to fall off first because right now this division is the best in in Major League Baseball.

[00:19:37]Everyone's above 500 and I thought for a while maybe the Cardinals were going to be that first team to fall off a little bit, but they've won three straight.

[00:19:45]They're 17 and 13, third place, you know. Uh we just talk about Milwaukee.

[00:19:51]Pittsburgh got good enough starting pitching and they've improved their offense this year. How long will that last? I don't know.

[00:19:57]>> Oh, it's the Reds. The Reds can't sustain this, right? And and obviously they're exceptionally well-managed.

[00:20:04]>> And I do think that that is a way of looking at some of the imbalances in these numbers that they have one of, if not the best manager in baseball. And but you can only do so much with that.

[00:20:17]That that ultimately those runs scored and runs allowed will define how good you are.

[00:20:23]>> Yeah, I mean that that's fair to say. I I could see them falling off, but the do are we talking about a fall off that, you know, has them near the bottom of the division? I I don't know about that, but >> I do.

[00:20:36]>> The Cardinals then would be your next choice, right?

[00:20:38]>> Yeah, probably. because they're so young and and I still think the best thing for them is to be selling in July.

[00:20:45]>> Yeah. I I think when it comes down to it, it's going to be the the Cubs and Brewers will be the top two and then there's going to be a gap and then it'll be the other three teams. And that's just the way it should be this year. And I think it plays out that way >> with the the Reds eventually bottoming out >> in this division. [clears throat] You know, I was I I caught some White Sox baseball yesterday, Dan. I was inspired to watch because of you. And uh they had a a 10-minute >> Drew Romo. Yeah, you got >> Drew Romo got me inspired to watch and then I wanted to watch the other guy hit home runs. And >> I had no idea how you talk about how good a a division is the NL Central.

[00:21:21]>> The White Sox are a game and a half out of first place at 14 and 17.

[00:21:28]>> Yeah, Cleveland is leads the division at 500 16 and 16. The Pirates would be leading that division. [laughter] >> That's something. And then yeah, with the Tigers in second place right now at 15 and 16, >> the White Socks at 14 and 17. And I don't know if you guys saw what happened to Jav Bayz got carded off the other night.

[00:21:44]>> I did. I did see sliding in the first base and his ankle got caught and it just it didn't did not look good at all.

[00:21:52]>> No, that looked like the Robin Ventura injury, which >> it was bad. Um, but yeah, I was inspired to watch a a little just a tiny bit of that yesterday to see that that 10th inning win. Yeah, I mean right now this division is just they're playing really good baseball. I don't know if it's a matter of the competition you're playing as a as it might appear that way for the Cincinnati Reds 10 and three on the road. Um but you know, it's all going to it's all going to balance out and I think it comes down to the Cubs and the Brewers chasing for this division title once again. Um so hopefully you don't feel too bad about it, but the Cubs actually have improved over the last 30 days in the uh baseball reference playoff odds. Uh they did have them, by the way, finishing their their best possibility of 99 wins >> with the Brewers at their best possibility of 103 wins. Again, these are 25,000 season sim the uh simulation they go through.

[00:22:42]>> Yeah. Well, if we got that, that would be that would be a really fun yet also annoying season to to watch.

[00:22:50]>> What if the Brewers went 103 and the Cubs went 99?

[00:22:53]>> Yeah. I I just I I'm interested. You can we can talk about this a little bit.

[00:22:57]Like I I think that like the the Cubs went and paid Craig Council eight uh $40 million, $8 million a year to to come in here and win the division. And as much as like making the playoffs, getting in it, like that is a >> it's all that matters >> face like you need to do it. You just need to get in.

[00:23:17]I still go back to thinking game five against the Brewers last year would have been at Wrigley if you win the division.

[00:23:24]And so it just to me this year you got to win the division because if you're in that situation again I want to be a beautiful historic Wrigley Field with 40,000 and a night game and like that crowd behind the Cubs instead of having to go up to Milwaukee with their roof that's always leaking that they brag about and and just like deal with the misery of how that goes and and game five was brutal last year. So >> yeah, it was and Cody and you're not wrong about that. And yeah, you know, the whole the whole point is the base is get into the playoffs.

[00:23:58]>> Yes.

[00:23:58]>> Get into the playoffs. That's what you have to do. But with the Cubs payroll and with the expectations and of course with the hiring of Craig Council, the Cubs should be in the conversation of how do we get that that one or two seed?

[00:24:09]>> All right, maybe we're not catching the Dodgers, but how do we get that two seed?

[00:24:13]>> How do we get a buy in that in that in that first round and we're just sitting at home and resting a little bit and getting ready for whatever happens next.

[00:24:21]>> It's not just council. It's not I I I think it's one thing to put it all on counsel. Yeah, obviously that's true.

[00:24:27]But just look at this last off season with the Cabrera move and the Bregman move. Like you didn't you didn't get a third baseman heading into his 30s here who might be on the might be on the precipice of declining.

[00:24:41]>> It's on Jed, too. You're right.

[00:24:42]>> Yeah. don't take that risk and and Jed deserves a lot of credit for putting this team together and and what's going on right now with the pitching depth, however they're finding it that we haven't mentioned Jed's name, but this is if if he has built this resilient a team that that is on him and credit to him, but it's a lot more than just council when it comes to to how how they're pot committed to this particular team. Yes, they should win the division.

[00:25:09]>> I completely agree with what you're saying. I'm just emphasizing that like the expectation here is very high and and and they they just simply to me need to win the division or or else we could find ourselves in another situation last year again.

[00:25:23]>> Well, Cody, I know why you bring it up and it is frustrating as a Cubs fan. You know, you bring in Craig Council, one of the better managers in baseball, and then what happens? You continually lose to the team that he left, which is just really frustrating and just makes it makes it worse.

[00:25:36]>> And I look like Pat Murphy, too. I know he's see that that's that's another wrinkle that adds to the whole situation. If if he was unlikable or you hated him or he was a bad manager that just fell into luck, >> it would be like easier to look at. But it it makes it more difficult. Uh tomorrow when we have a little bit more time since there's an off day today, I want to talk about >> uh the pitching depth and pitching injuries, not just with the Cubs, but overall in baseball. Uh you know, the season starts with 4,374 outs needed in the regular season. The Cubs have gotten 837 outs so far. So, we're 3,537 outs to go.

[00:26:12]>> How are those outs going to come? I mean, we talk about that.

[00:26:15]>> This is my big pile of outs. Yes.

[00:26:17][laughter] >> Think about this. You actually defined it. Thank you.

[00:26:19]>> I defined it for you. Yes. So, that's like So, the Cubs have 3,500 outs to get still. Where are those outs going to come? Because then we're we're going to look at the pitchers that won't be here.

[00:26:28]>> We know that a guy like Porter Hodgej and Kate Horton will not be getting us outs. know that Justin Steel, whatever projection you might have had for him, those outs have now been limited. So, there are extra outs to get now within those 3500. So, I want to break it down a little more, not just the Cubs injuries, but also um uh pitching injuries within Major League Baseball.

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[00:28:36]>> A little breaking news if you want to call it. Uh, I just saw this come across the timeline uh from the MLB Players Association Communications Twitter account.

[00:28:48]>> Uh, Players Trust announced that Matthew Boyd as the first most valuable philanthropist honore of 2026.

[00:28:58]>> Most >> I don't know what any of this means, but I know that >> philanthropist.

[00:29:02]>> Wow. Work in the community like off the field. So, kind of a cool honor to to to get for for for him. So, >> all right. Good for him. Good for Matthew Boyd. Now, we can just, you know, make sure that he is using that pitch count as efficiently as possible and getting all the swing and miss that he needs.

[00:29:22]>> Yeah. Is he going to throw more strikes with this now? Is that is that what happens?

[00:29:27]>> I feel pretty good about a bounce back going his next start. I do because he's pitched pretty well this year outside of his last start. So, and and opening opening day. Yeah.

[00:29:36]>> So, I guess >> outside of those two, it's all good.

[00:29:39]>> Half his starts he's been pretty good.

[00:29:40][laughter] >> Have you looked at all Cody or Matt, have you guys looked at catcher erra yet? Do we have enough to know who's doing the best job receiving? Because >> I have not looked yet.

[00:29:53]>> I'm I'm interested to see just going forward. I wanted to put this out there cuz cuz as ABS is changing framing value, >> I I think the idea of how we value catchers is going forward as there's going to be more challenges and eventually we'll have my I think we should push that button and just have ABS call everything. But I do think the way that we look at catchers and the way we understand catching value is in flux a little bit now. So I want to keep an eye on that. I want to keep an eye to see who's effective with whom behind the plate for the Cubs because that'll be something this season that is going to matter as as we get into the fall.

[00:30:30]>> Yeah, I'm uh I'm not really sure. I am looking at Carson Kelly's baseball savant since you brought it up and his framing is actually like well below league average. He's 11th percentile blocks above average is at 48 percentile.

[00:30:48]Um, but his pop time is at 72, so that's why he's been able to throw out some runners. Interesting. I I don't know. I I view I've always viewed Kelly as the better defensive option compared to Amaya, but Kelly is if you look at his hitting value right now. It's all red in on baseball, which is fun to see, too.

[00:31:09]So, >> yes.

[00:31:10]>> Uh, yeah, I it's something I think >> just keep an eye on it.

[00:31:13]>> Yeah, we can. Yeah, bookmark it. I just in general because I I feel like my understanding of catcher's defensive value is is floating a little bit right now because we don't know the effect of ABS on how a catcher sets up and where they might be cheating and saying look I've I've got to prepare myself to receive this in a way that makes it look like a strike and maybe they're not able to jump across to the other batters box to stop one in the same way or you know absorb absorb a low pitch that a pitcher wants to throw, we're going to need a much larger sample. But for a team like the Cubs that is so rooted in the quality of their defense, I really want to make sure that we've got an accurate assessment of arguably the most important defensive position on the field outside of shortstop and center field.

[00:32:05]>> Yeah, that's fair. Um, >> one quick note too on Danby Swanson. Um, so that that sore ass is just a day-to-day situation and he was he's expected to be back in the lineup tomorrow. So, >> that was good to hear. Good to hear that it wasn't something serious.

[00:32:21]>> I'm happy that like what I said about the luxury the Cubs have and and and Matt Shaw being able to step in because in years past they would just throw in, you know, an aging veteran who, you know, you just didn't know if he was going to give you anything more often than not. They he they were basically a zero in your lineup. Mashaw comes in yesterday, three hits and played a pretty solid second base and and so as long as there's no more injuries on the infield, you'll be good. And also Swanson probably be in the lineup on Friday like you said. So >> yeah.

[00:32:51]>> Yeah.

[00:32:52]>> All right. Well, that will do it for today's Off the Ivy here on 312 Sports.

[00:32:58]It has been brought to you by Russ Armstrong and Chicago Window Guys at 8473029171 and Chicago Windowindowguys.com.

[00:33:10]Off the Ivy, a Chicago Cubs podcast with Dan [music] Bernstein, Mattabatakola, and Cody Delo on 312 Sports.