Sadhguru on the 2026 Assembly Election Results | NDTV Interview

追加: 2026-05-14

[00:00:00]Sguru Namaskarum thank you very much for taking out time.

[00:00:05]>> I want to start by asking you these are just elections. Why is there so much talk about how this is a generational change? People of India have spoken very very decisively. The kind of numbers we are seeing in West Bengal past 200.

[00:00:23]Assam past 100 clear majority in Tamil Nadu not a clear majority but again for a first timer to go past the 100 mark what do you make of the voice of the people heard in this election >> this is something that uh everybody should take note of uh not only within the country outside the country also because uh there have been disparaging comments about what India is this is the level of maturity people hold as uneducated they may seem for others from outside as uh not so modern they may seem but there we are a very evolved democracy a very mature democracy we don't make too much noise we go to the ballot and do what we have to do 92% people don't get that kind of marks in mathematics all Right. It's a fantastic display of the commitment that we have for democracy and the maturity that Indian democracy has and everything is over 80% in most of the states. It's spectacular.

[00:01:36]It's a spectacular dance of democracy which you don't see anywhere in the world. For example, in United States only 43 44% go to vote 92 plus percentage is shows that how people value democracy and when they have to bring about a change how they do it. So having said that I wouldn't like to conclude that this is in this favor or that favor. The important thing is people have made a clear statement the value they attach to the ballot to the democratic process and how they hold it in their hearts and minds. I think this is a spectacular statement about that.

[00:02:19]Let's start by talking about West Bengal because that I think quite safely is one of the biggest surprises. uh threetime chief minister just swept out of power and how to be reduced to only double digits when she was past 200 last time around. What do you take?

[00:02:38]>> I don't see why anybody should be surprised because uh this is one thing we should understand about Indian public that they are not very reactive. They won't stand up on the street and fight on a daily basis. A little bit Bengalis have the spirit but generally most people do not do that but at the same time they are not the people who will be terrorized they will not be ruled by tyranny for good they will respond in their own way and that's what you see I'm not surprised definitely I'm surprised with the numbers that uh thanks to all the people who have worked for it particularly I think people are truly insp inspired by seeing the level of inspiration and commitment that our prime minister brings to the table that in everything that level of commitment and inspiration that he's constantly trying to infuse into the nation I think that's worked magic in one way another thing is uh our home minister his grit and gumption the way he conducted the whole thing I think is uh truly truly you know admirable And every political party should learn to do this that that you don't use you wield your power just like that blatantly but really learn to leverage the democratic process to achieve your goals whichever party you are. This is most important and I think they've demonstrated this and you can't help mentioning uh Mr. Subendu Adakari. I have never met him nor do I know him personally but I watched a few of these things. The way he's going about on the streets is a very very uh you know it reminds us of Mamita Banerjee 10 years ago or 12 years ago. Well, she did the same thing but I think the problem was I believe she everybody comes with good intentions and then slip into other things. So I think her problem was lack of or her inability to have an administrative capacity but to depend on loyaltities of certain people. Slowly the people that you are loyal to you, they will draw you down in so many ways. And I think she went down that way faster than you could imagine.

[00:05:05]And uh took the state where it was where the only in the end thing will be only to use the stick on everybody that opposes you which happened. And uh once you give into certain leniencies in your own personal agendas, everybody else will take that leniency and take it to another level of corruption and exploitation. This has happened. But above all, I feel one strong thing which made this difference, the kind of numbers that happened in Bengal has uh a lot to do with what happened in Bangladesh in the last 12 months. I think uh the Bengalies woke up to the reality if we go down this lane this is what going to happen here also and we don't want that to happen and that's not new if you have little more uh if you're not so affected by your amnesia if you look back in 1948 this has happened in Kolkata and all over large parts of Bengal and they have faced the famine uh in the World War II times so their suffering is not entirely forgotten I've spoken to various Bengali families and their grandmothers all their childhood they've been talking about what happened in the famine what happened in 1948 but somehow it did not really get into their minds but I think this uh what happened in Bangladesh really woke them up in a certain way can't take away the credit from the party machinery that worked on the ground definitely they have done their job but I think that that was a significant factor and >> in what way? How how does Bangladesh affect the psyche of somebody staying in West Bengal? People will argue that this is an effort to try and compare apples and oranges.

[00:06:54]>> Well, we must understand it's the same land where we have drawn an artificial line, the same people speak the same language, same culture. It is just that they took on a different religious identity and they went down a different lane largely because of Mujibur Rahman and later on his daughter they maintained a certain balance of that didn't go to extremes but in recent times I think in the last 12 months they had a free run and they know what happens this from my my understanding by knowing the people across the border lots of Bangladeshies is they were left with a bad taste in their mouth. It's not something that they wish to do. But certain groups of people do it but they don't have the courage to go and stop it. Nor did the government machinery had the necessary gumption or maybe willingly they allowed it whichever way it was but everybody understood if you go down this lane this is what will happen.

[00:07:55]>> So on either side of the border large number of people majority of the people don't want such things to happen.

[00:08:02]And that became very clear if you go down this lane this is what will happen.

[00:08:07]So I think it has had a significant impact on people's psyche.

[00:08:12]>> Are you talking about are you talking about the radicalization of Bangladesh in recent times?

[00:08:16]>> The same apple is the same apple that we cut. One fell that way and one fell this way. It's not apples and oranges. It's the same apple.

[00:08:24]But how can the kind of radicalization or the radicalism that we saw in Bangladesh especially after the removal of Shik Hassina how does that threaten India? India at its very core including West Bengal is a secular state.

[00:08:42]>> You can call any state whatever you want but people experience only what happens on the street.

[00:08:50]One thing is if you go back to the history of Bengal even during the times of Mahabharat where they called it the Wangadeshan even at that time people talk about how these Wanga people who are so accomplished in their art, music, literature such evolved and civilized people. people are talking about this even then and uh you know even during British era everything everybody recognized that Bengal was a very culturally rich uh it was a nation Wanga was a nation by itself.

[00:09:29]So somewhere along the way I think uh this uh left rule where chief minister spent half the time in London and uh ruled you know with a certain this thing and they thought the only way to control things was with uh violence. Once you bring violence into the picture the intelligent in the population will all recede or will migrate. M >> I think this has happened to Bengal in a serious way. The most intelligent people, talented people have moved out in a big number. Not everybody but a large number has moved out. Once you lose that population, you have lost something very vital in any civilization. So if you want to see Bengal or Wanga or Bangla as a civilization, they have lost massively in the last 40 45 years time.

[00:10:22]So I think uh in that sense there is this loss has been felt by people and everything is coming down to the street level action and openly politicians people in power are talking about we will fight on the street.

[00:10:39]See this language should go from the nation. Your fight is in the ballot never on the street.

[00:10:47]Street fighters should be eliminated from the nation. If we don't do this, we don't have a nation. This is very important.

[00:10:55]>> And once the administration itself doesn't respect law and order, then uh people lose that sense of comfort and being there in that state. So a huge number of people both the elite and the lowest classes from certain districts have left. You just look at the labor working in Tamil Nadu in Karnataka.

[00:11:18]Most of the construction laborer Bengalies they're not there simply out of their choice. They did not migrate. They migrated because there's no livelihood and there is no protection and safety particularly for women. So this is a serious thing that must be addressed. I hope the new administration that comes up will take up these challenges. It's not going to be easy because the rot has set in at a certain level.

[00:11:46]It takes lots of nurturing, not just fixing, not just violently putting down something. You need to nurture people out of the situations that they've gotten into because many people get into various situations not necessarily by choice but because that will be the only choice available. So everybody gets into that one way or the other when especially such situations last for long enough which it has happened in Bengal.

[00:12:12]>> You know you spoke of Shuvindu Adikari.

[00:12:14]reminded me Sagu that he said all through this election and even at its conclusion that this was a fight to save Sanatan. Do you think this is a legitimate argument or is it politicization of sanatan that doesn't belong to anyone party or anyone person?

[00:12:35]definitely does not belong to any party but someone can take it up as an agenda because we cannot forget the country was partitioned on the basis of religion though most of us did not believe that or most of us do not identify with that kind of division but that's how the country was divided we lost onethird of the geography in one shot on both sides east and west and uh well thanks to Mrs. Gandhi that uh at least she made only one Pakistan otherwise we would have east Pakistan and west Pakistan in today's world that would have been a biggest disaster at least that one thing was done so you cannot just wipe out see you're in the new cycle if it's out of the new cycle it's over for you you're in the next story but people who got killed their homes burnt and whatever terrible things happened to them that memory carries across generations.

[00:13:35]>> So in that context, what he's saying is uh has relevance.

[00:13:40]>> But when you refer to the partition, how is that relevant to West Bengal?

[00:13:46]>> Bangladesh is sitting right next to you.

[00:13:48]It was all one Bengal and they put a line there. On what basis? On a religious basis, isn't it?

[00:13:58]So you think we were in that danger again when we're talking about saving Sanatan through an election? See >> whether that danger happens or not when the demographics start changing beyond the natural change that happens in a society. Natural change happens because some people may have more children, somebody else has less children. That is a natural process will take hundreds of years. But when demographics start changing because artificially being created >> then insecurities will rise naturally.

[00:14:30]>> I want to now uh ask about a state that you yourself spend a lot of time in Tamil Nadu. Nobody saw this coming.

[00:14:38]Where did Vijay come from? What do you what do you make of this phenomenon?

[00:14:42]>> I don't know. You guys are sitting in Delhi and not seeing it. Everybody saw it in Tamil Nadu because you must understand Tamil people are very patient people.

[00:14:57]Patience comes not out of being dosile.

[00:15:01]Patience comes out of intelligence.

[00:15:04]When you're very intelligent, you will be naturally patient.

[00:15:08]So they are very patient people. They wait. They give opportunities. They wait, wait, and wait. I think they wait more than they should, but they do wait.

[00:15:21]So the thing is this pingpong game that's been going on between two Dravidian parties fundamentally same but playing a different game and essentially talking about as if we are a separate nation by ourselves.

[00:15:37]uh for some time it excites you that we have a separate identity but then you see how it doesn't really work for you over a period of time >> and above all everybody was looking for some fresh breath because the same thing is going on whether this party comes or that party comes the same stuff >> nothing different fundamentally the corruption is almost like a relay game okay that what these people are doing the same system is exploited by the next government and the next government.

[00:16:11]>> So we have seen this pingpong game going on for too long. I think people were tired. They were looking for some savior and always in Tamil Nadu savior has come from the screen.

[00:16:22]You have seen MJR who became a massive leader and of course Jalita who became a very able administrator also in many ways. But all of them again the same problem run on loyaltity.

[00:16:37]not unstructural administrative capability >> uh because they don't come from those backgrounds. They suddenly pop up. So the only thing they can trust is a few people around them and those people whatever they do they do. So once again we have put up a film star but this is a new era where there's different level of information different level of understanding and uh generally people see him as a smart person >> and hope he doesn't make the same past mistakes but I feel the federal government or the central government has a huge responsibility because I don't see the central government of India as BJP government or or as news channels mention that it's Modi government. I don't see it that way. I see this is the government of Barat. This is the government of 1.4 billion people. This doesn't belong to any party. I think the central government should exhibit this quality and nurture this new leader >> into becoming a capable administrator >> because this is very important for the state. This is very important for the country. Tamil Nadu is not just one more state. It's a significant uh contributor in terms of economy, in terms of technology, in terms of intellect to the nation. In many ways, Tamil Nadu is very very important.

[00:18:06]But >> what kind of administrator do you think Vijay would be even after nurturing?

[00:18:11]Because one always thinks about what is his vision, what is his ideology, what is his background. Here is a first timer. Sure, he's been a superstar. But what does he actually believe in? Do we even know?

[00:18:24]>> See, that is the best thing. I like people who don't believe anything that if they believe strongly in something, they will be against somebody who believes something else. So in a way that's an advantage. There's no ideology. There is no belief system. He is just a film star who popular with the people and he thought he should take this responsibility. You must understand he's dumped his uh film career when he's still at his peak. He's not over the hill. He's still at his peak and he dumped that carrier and got in. I kind of trust that instinct that uh you know someone is willing to drop what is precious to them what they built up their all their life and willing to jump into this not knowing what the results are now the results are in his favor that's a different matter but when you went into the election everybody try to write him off he won't make more than 12% vote this that all this so through all that he went through and his people have voted for him >> people voting for him is mainly for fresh breath. I believe and above all uh you know like simple people in the rural villages and also the youth and everybody believes their in Tamil Nadu their ideals their values their ethics everything is ruled by the cinema >> in the cinema he's a good man means they believe he's a good man so I don't believe anybody's a good man or a bad man it's just that they have to rise to the occasion But he's showing the signs that he wants to rise rise to the occasion. Is he a competent administrator right now? I don't think so.

[00:20:06]>> But I'm saying we have a whole bureaucratic system which we say is uh what is that? Ironclad system. I think that's the word they use. So this system he must depend on learn his process.

[00:20:21]There is time for him. He's still young.

[00:20:23]There is time for him without disrupting too many things he must do. One thing I would advise him is he must identify seven to eight categories of people industry, business in that if you want to categorize technology, construction, this one, that one and then farmers and like this different groups which contribute to the Tamil prosperity and Tamil wellbeing. He must meet listen to them. Don't talk to them. listen to them what they want and see what are the things which are achievable in the next 5 years. If he goes like this all of us are with him 100%.

[00:21:02]>> Because right now he has no encumbrances.

[00:21:07]>> Normally when a political leader comes up he has too many encumbrances. He has to satisfy so many obligations for which he will become corrupt. He has no obligations with anybody. On sheer personal power he's come. I think it's a great opportunity. I hope he doesn't fail us. I think he will try to do his best. Hope the right advisers come and every one of us are available if it is for the wellbeing of the people and I feel above all the government of India should handhold Tamil Nadu government to ensure that their leadership gets the right balance and uh we should not think in terms of party because he's won a popular vote.

[00:21:50]He's won the popular vote. We don't have electoral colleges in our country. This is a popular vote. It must be respected by everybody including the central government and see how to handhold him to see that he doesn't make serious mistakes in administration and economic decisions that he makes which I don't think he will make because there is a good system in Tamil Nadu even without there is a there is a statistic which shows generally when the chief ministers don't meddle with too many things that administration goes very well. I think he will be that kind of chief minister till he finds his balance and finds his own way of envisioning something. See we are not a new country. We have been there for over 80 years now nearly 8 years.

[00:22:37]>> So there is nothing to envision in a big way for an individual state. It's the vision of the nation which is the vision of the state. It's only in application in how we make it happen. That also is reasonably established. All he has to do is eliminate corruption, put the right people in right places which I think he's competent to do. He he shows an intelligent way of approaching things >> because Sguru there are a lot of things that people have been quite scathed with the Dvidian ideology. Do you think first of all that that ideology now could be on its last legs that this is a message of the people against?

[00:23:16]>> There is no such thing. This is only in the television cameras that people are talking. Maybe 2% of the people believe in that. Rest of the people are not thinking on those lines. Yes, Tamil language, Tamil culture, Tamil literature is important for people. But this doesn't mean we are thinking Dravidian in every state their language, their literature, their culture is important. But in Tamil Nadu in the last 40 45 years I think in the you know since uh Anaduray's time they started talking about it as if it's a separate culture it is not so in the ancient past Dradian existed right up till Gujarat so even during the British era why they called this me medas presidency is because this entire thing they saw it as the same culture languages we spoke differently But we were the same culture always. So trying to separate Tamil Nadu as a independent drop from another world is a wrong thing. I don't think that exists in Tamil people's minds. It's only in a small percentage of people who've been trying to rev it up and using it for political purposes. I think that will and he will talk a different language which is a good thing. But could could Vijay completely take a you know make a clean break from that because he hasn't been vocal at all on issues like tiruparan kundam for example he said nothing about it he didn't agree with it but he didn't criticize it either so the traditional tropes associated with the dravidian ideology about north versus south anti-hindi anti I won't say anti-hindu but well we saw what happened in tuparan kundam is vijay the opposite of that >> uh not really but I think uh he was trying to protect uh his uh dedicated constituency which uh not a good thing but politically I appreciate that some things maybe you have to do like that to be stay relevant but now that he sees his vote has come not just from a certain religious group or whatever it's come from wide across from Tamil people I think he will change his approach approach to that.

[00:25:30]Would you advise or do you think he will at some point free temples from state control?

[00:25:37]>> That the center has to do not the state.

[00:25:41]We need a legislation. Recently I think central government has said in the Supreme Court we don't want to manage any temples.

[00:25:48]>> Why are they just saying it? They must pass a legislation. Let the temples be freed. What is the methodology to do it?

[00:25:55]It's a complex process. It may take 5 10 15 years but the process should start from the parliament.

[00:26:03]>> Why are we putting the onus on Tamil Nadu?

[00:26:06]>> I want to circle back now to the east of India. Uh we spoke of West Bengal but there is also a very interesting parallel in what >> cannot ignous job. See probably he is the only one BJP leader who's gotten a massive amount of support from the Muslim community. Uh he's managed to build those bridges and this is what is needed everywhere because it's very very important for the future of Barat that Muslims don't hold a separate identity of their own. They see themselves as Indians. It's most important. I think he's doing this better than anyone. Of course the prime minister has continuously tried to say that but there's another group trying to bracket him as something else all the time though he keeps talking about subkasat subkas everybody's trying to at least a certain groups of people are trying to put him in a bracket but I think this Assam is a demonstration of how these bridges can be built >> and the identity should be of the nationality and the nationhood not of religion. Religion is your personal practice. you can practice whatever religion you want. So I think Bishwas G has done a fabulous job and I've been with him and I know how strongly he believes in what he's doing and uh I've seen him engaging with people he came to one of our events the way people respond to him like he's their dear friend you know not like a political leader which is fantastic I think that connect is needed. Sguru you talk about connect but actually I was reading some of the commentary and vizam it said that this is one of the most vicious poisonous communally charged election that has ever taken place and that is the only reason that himant bisarma has won and that Bengal also saw echoes of it in the way soinduadikari spoke that's why I spoke of the parallels >> see the thing is uh he's talking about the illegal immigrants which unfortunately happens to be almost 99% Muslim.

[00:28:17]So people are saying he's talking against Muslims. No, he's talking about illegal migrants.

[00:28:23]When we say illegal, anything illegal in the country, whether illegal liquor, illegal population, illegal anything should not exist in any nation if you're interested in the well-being of the nation.

[00:28:38]So when he talks about illegal immigrants, people are saying he's talking against the Muslims which is not a good thing to do. This is because people have thrived on division.

[00:28:51]It is time we build bridges. It's time we integrate Indian society as one nationalistic force rather than dividing on the basis of what you believe or I believe or what you worship and what somebody else worships. So I think it's a very significant time in that sense that Assam has voted the way it is voted. This shows the confidence that people have in him. Commentaries anybody can write most of the people are paid commentaries they're right for their livelihood they write whatever that >> finally I'll ask you Sguru uh the two states but especially Bengal a lot of the people who reacted it reacted very emotionally. Are you not going to Kerala at all?

[00:29:36]>> Of course, Kerala. Uh you know there was there was a joke that people had that there are only three places where the left is in power. One is in the media, the second is JNU and the third is Kerala. Now apparently we're down to two.

[00:29:51]>> Uh well that will also erode which is I think already happening. But Kerala is important.

[00:29:58]See, because left in its essence what it is unfortunately has been lost long time ago and uh thanks to our home minister that this whole red corridor has been almost practically been wiped out for practical purposes or been surrendered or whichever way is been neutralized which is most important for the development of the nation and nationhood as a sovereign entity.

[00:30:26]That's the that being said in Kerala people moving uh is from this to Congress is a good thing and also for me above all having a credible national party as an opposition is equally important.

[00:30:43]>> Regional hedgemony is not a good thing over a period of time it'll threaten the sovereignity of the nation. So the only party in the country which you can call a national party because congress party still holds 20% of the country's uh electorate in their uh this thing. So it's very very important that Congress rises as a credible opposition a responsible and constructive opposition.

[00:31:09]Unfortunately, it slipped into a place where it's looking like it's not that.

[00:31:15]But it's very important it's built back because in the democratic process, it's important to have a credible opposition throughout the country.

[00:31:24]>> Regional regimeny should go I'll go further to get myself into scandal scandalous situation. That is I I would say at some point India within the constitution should pass a law just about anybody and everybody can't float a party.

[00:31:40]Okay, right now anybody if I have five people or if I don't even have five people I can start a party just because I one symbol and some silly thing I will do. This must go. This is mockery of democracy.

[00:31:53]>> No, but then they'll argue Vijay won't have happened if this rule was there two years ago. Vijay was that person with five people in a >> come through another system. He would have come through another system. He would have come through a party and see that is vijay is not everyday happening. Okay.

[00:32:11]>> Happened. He won't happen everywhere in all the states. That's a rare thing.

[00:32:16]Once in a way these things happen it's fine. But I'm saying for long-term well-being of the nation. All sorts of parties coming up and talking in divisive ways. Many of them have no clue what is India, what is India's constitution, what stand we have taken, what it means to be secular. None of those things are there in these people because I've met many of these political leaders. Just it's like a local enterprise.

[00:32:45]>> It's like a local enterprise. just about anybody starts one party and if he has one MLA he has negotiating capabilities and money transactions all this it's very important long-term Congress party builds itself as a credible opposition I know a lot of people are not going to like it me saying this but this is very important for the nation >> that there must be a credible constructive opposition party and the only party which has the fundamentals to do this is Congress party. I hope they listen to this and build themselves up into that thing. I'm glad they have replaced the left government in uh this thing. But they have slipped into appeasement a little too much. They must extricate themselves out of that and show their nationalistic quality. It is very important. There are good leaders there like Shashi is there and you know that Satishan is a very good leader. All these people should come into the picture and build that party into a place where it looks like a credible party. I know they've lost many states.

[00:33:54]That's not the point. But in terms of nation, they must have even if they don't win the government, they must have significant enough number in the parliament where they're in opposition.

[00:34:06]Today we are at a certain level of development. So we think okay let BJP rule somehow let the country develop but over a period of time as development happens it's very important there is a significant opposition right now it's a rag tag number of people they are trying to put all of them together and get them to one thing you can't because some are family parties some are just commercial parties all kinds of things >> it's very important somebody who has the necessary foundations like a Congress party builds itself into a credible opposition. I hope that happens. Right now if you see somehow there is a string there's Kerala, Karnataka and Telangana in their hand and of course Himachal Pradesh. So I'm not only thinking in terms of state governments but in the nation we need a credible opposition party.

[00:34:58]>> You think Rahul Gandhi is capable of doing that? You spoke of Shashit Tarur Vidi Satish. I don't want to get into political this thing about it because as far as officially it is concerned he's one of the MPs of that party and he's a loop let's respect that position who is capable who is not capable why should a party depend on only one person with Vijay it is true because it's a one person party it is a party only because of him but that's not the case with Congress party Congress party has a history of over 100 years plus even before independence they have a history.

[00:35:32]So we should not gauge such a party with just the capabilities or whatever of just one person. Why should it depend on one person? I'm saying easily they can come up with 25 leaders who are capable of building that party. I'm sure there is that kind of depth to that party.

[00:35:50]>> Uh unfortunately they might not have made use of it in the last few years but it's time to do that before it gets too late. If they fall below 20% of elector rate in their kitty then it becomes difficult to come back then what happens is in every state regional hedgemony will come >> you have seen what happened in Bengal those kind of things should not happen nothing that threatens the sovereignity of the nation should ever happen for this a credible opposition which has nationalistic roots are important >> all right it's always the people and the people's wisdom, the wisdom of the voter that is supreme and every now and then through elections they tell us that they aren't and they can't be taken for a ride. Sguru, >> is that a good thing?

[00:36:38]>> That's a wonderful thing. Thank you very much, Saggu, for speaking to us. Thank you.