Answering Cleave to Antiquity’s Accusation

Added: 2026-05-12

[00:00:00]Very briefly I'd like to address an accusation that was made against me by Ben with Cleveland Antiquity. This is in regards to a video I did recently with The Layman Apologist, uh the other Paul, and their friend Gabe. Um but right out the gate I just want to say very clearly once and for all to set the record straight that I do not attack the Orthodox Church in any way, shape, or form. I support the Orthodox Church, and I am here with the mission to remove blockers to the Orthodox Church that are keeping people from joining it. And I hope to lock arms with my brothers who are apologists who are defending the apostolic faith with me. So, let that be uh on the records permanently. I am here to defend the Orthodox Church. I am not here to attack the Orthodox Church. And I just want to make that very, very clear.

[00:00:46]Now, with regards to this video, I want to give a little bit of backstory to kind of clear the air. For one, I did not write the title of this video. The title uh was written by The Layman Apologist. I did not even know the title of the video going into this. And I would like to read to you the email that I received from Layman when he invited me onto his show. He says, "If you are up for it, Gabe, the other Paul, and I are going to do a stream on the recent uproar of guys like Jay Dyer online. I thought I would see if you are interested. No worries if you deem it too controversial, just wanted to ask."

[00:01:21]Now, when I first read this, I interpreted this as a conversation with some recent event involving Jay Dyer. I didn't know what that event might be, but I interpreted this as an opportunity to hopefully clear the air a little bit on Jay Dyer because I have no problems with Jay Dyer. As far as I know, we agree 100% on the Orthodox faith. I've never heard him say something that I disagree with. So, I just want to make that clear that when I received this email, there was no mention of OrthoBros or Orthodoxy being hijacked or anything like that. I had no idea that this was the title of the video. The email that I received was simply an invitation to a conversation about a recent uproar involving Jay Dyer.

[00:02:03]And of course, I would never turn down the opportunity to discuss with people who are genuinely asking questions about the Orthodox faith. And I can tell you in my experience with Layman and Gabe that they are very genuine people. They are not going to attack the Orthodox faith. They're not going to make personal attacks. And my experiences with them have been overall very positive. So, I saw as an opportunity to hopefully clear the air for them and shed some positive light on the situation in the Orthodox Church.

[00:02:33]And that was my attitude going into the discussion. Now, in this conversation with Layman Apologist, Gabe, and the other Paul, my message was very clear. I want people to not judge the Orthodox Church by their interactions online. I want them to go to an Orthodox Church and experience it for themselves. And I assured them that whatever nasty experiences you had online, you will not have those experiences if you actually go to an Orthodox Church. So, I can't speak for their experiences. If they've encountered Orthodox people who left a bad aftertaste in their mouth, that's their own experience. I can't say anything about it. But, I will tell them that okay, if you had a bad experience, don't judge the whole Orthodox Church by that experience. Go to an Orthodox Church and see for yourself.

[00:03:19]So, my message was not to attack OrthoBros or attack the Orthodox Church in any way, shape, or form. I was hoping to curb some of the attacks against the Orthodox Church and encourage people to visit an Orthodox Church. Now, another accusation that came up in this video from Ben was that I said that the apostles didn't venerate icons. This is false. I never said that the apostles didn't venerate icons, and I never taught that in any of my content.

[00:03:49]Uh this is probably in response to a discussion that I had within a recent video of mine where I discussed the differences between the English word venerate and the Greek words proskuneo and aspazomai which the seventh ecumenical council used. Now, these words are notoriously poorly translated into English because of the differences between these two languages. It can get complex, it can get nuanced, and I wanted to shed some light on that in response to people like Gavin Ortlund who are putting words in the mouths of the fathers of the seventh ecumenical council and push back against some of the the incorrect interpretations of Nicaea II. This has obviously been misunderstood by certain viewers, not everybody of course, but certain viewers interpreted me as saying the apostles didn't venerate icons which is absurd because I never said that. I affirm the seventh ecumenical council in all of the teachings that it presents. So, I'd like to wrap up by apologizing to anybody who was scandalized by that video that I did with the Latin Apologist. It was not my intention in any way, shape, or form to attack the Orthodox Church and I don't believe that I ever did. My message was simple to not judge the Orthodox Church by interactions online, but go to an Orthodox Church, speak with a priest, and experience the faith for yourself.

[00:05:08]I would be more than happy to come on Cleaves' channel and discuss this with him in person. I'd be more than happy to start a connection with him that's positive, that's good. We are on the same side and I support my Orthodox brothers who are fighting for the faith and I love you guys and I completely support what you're doing. I hope that you can support me as well as we fight for the same cause to get people to come into the Orthodox Church. If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to reach out or leave a comment below.

[00:05:38]Thank you for watching and I will see you next time.