Arrest warrant vs Sen. Bato legally enforceable despite PH withdrawal from ICC – Aquino | Storycon

追加: 2026-05-12

[00:00:00]Also joining us is uh San Beda University Graduate School of Law Dean, Father Anilio Aino. Father Aino, thank you for joining us again. Welcome back to uh uh Sicon.

[00:00:11]>> Good afternoon, Father.

[00:00:12]>> Good afternoon.

[00:00:13]>> Good afternoon and good afternoon.

[00:00:16]Good afternoon.

[00:00:17]>> Yeah.

[00:00:18]>> Uh and of course joining us is Ral Jamas. Uh father uh big big debate among within legal circles arrest warrant ICC is applicable uh or not was an ICC arrest warrant not an interpole uh diffusion notice >> actually the interpol didn't issue warrants it issues it issues only red notices No, you know, you know whether it is an ICC warrant or not, the ICC warrant >> is itself a legal warrant for the arrest of Bau because under the uh relevant provision of the Rome Statute uh article 127, we are obligated to cooperate with the ICC in regard to cases that were already under investigation at the time of or withdrawal.

[00:01:20]>> So po Well, I I raise that, father, because uh in the in the past in the last year or two, uh the administration's been consistently saying that they are they were going to apply uh any uh uh any uh red notice by Interpol and not ICC because uh they do not recognize the ICC anymore. Of course, we're going back to pre-duterte arrest.

[00:01:47]It's not a question of whether we recognize the ICC or not. It's a question of a legal obligation. And when we were state parties to the IC statute, we accepted an obligation that was incumbent upon us even in case of withdrawal.

[00:02:05]So uh in fact, I I would find an interpol red notice less convincing than an ICC warrant.

[00:02:15]>> Mhm.

[00:02:16]compelling father ICC international warrant treaty obligation IC before we left and one year >> exactly >> you know that's a point that that's missed by many no they think that just because we uh have withdrawn from the Rome statute obligation Rome statute. We accepted certain obligations that were in that are incumbent upon us even in case of withdrawal and that is cooperating with the court in respect to arrest warrants for cases under investigation at the time of our withdrawal.

[00:03:07]fatherdurisdiction because of the treaty we signed.

[00:03:20]Exactly.

[00:03:25]It's not a decision. No, >> you know, never mind to because we will will always say what the other side wants him to say.

[00:03:37]Mhm.

[00:03:41]>> Very compelling.

[00:03:44]Father, you were asking.

[00:03:50]Go ahead. Amir.

[00:03:53]I'm here.

[00:04:00]9851 crimes against humanity under that provision for surrender.

[00:04:21]If we're going to invoke that section framework for such a surrender, >> he's referring to section 17.

[00:04:33]>> I I I don't I don't know what planet attorney comes from. No, but um if you read section 17 of 9851, >> it very it very clearly provides that in the interest of justice, >> the Philippine authorities may decide not to investigate and prosecute.

[00:04:52]>> Yeah.

[00:04:52]>> If there is an an international tribunal that is taking cognizance of the case and that's exactly what's happening here.

[00:05:00]Uh but father I think what uh attorney is emphasizing is the last line uh where it says the uh the accused uh may be surrendered uh uh if any to another state pursuant to the applicable exedition laws and treaties. Uh his his argument being there is no exition law or treaty existing anymore with the ICC.

[00:05:26]That that is his argument.

[00:05:28]You should read the whole section again and you will find that the last sentence has a disjunction.

[00:05:34]Surrender to an international tribunal or surrender in ex in accordance with an extradition treaty. In this case, the surrender of P de la Rosa will not be in accordance with >> exition exition treaty but in accordance with an a treaty obligation we assumed >> at the time we were members of the Rome statute.

[00:05:57]>> Okay.

[00:05:57]>> My two options.

[00:05:58]>> So >> yes >> uh I I think that article 17 should be very clearly read. In fact I pointed that out in my last post on Facebook.

[00:06:10]No. Um the last uh sentence has a disjunction.

[00:06:16]Surrender to an international tribunal or to another state in accordance with uh exedition laws.

[00:06:24]>> Uh so the first part surrender to an international tribunal. That's exactly what is asked for by the warrant of arrest. And I think that by virtue of 9851 section 17 which was again used for duterte that would apply to uh through in this case.

[00:06:45]>> Mhm. Actually father you also pointing that out. Uh there was a slew of uh petitions filed by the Duterte family with the Supreme Court uh in March last year after the arrest and surrender of uh the former president. But the Supreme Court has not acted uh in favor actually has not made any decision uh on the TRO and habius corpus petition for more than a year already. Uh >> which only means that what we did was >> I I want to comment on that. No, because if you file a petition for a temporary restraining order uh that is in the nature of an urgent petition.

[00:07:22]>> Yes, father. Mhm. And when the Supreme Court does not act on it, it sends you a signal that the Supreme Court does not see any merit in the petition. Okay?

[00:07:31]>> Otherwise, it would have intervened.

[00:07:33]>> Had the Supreme Court discerned that uh constitutional rights were imperiled by the surrender of Duterte, it would have acted and issued a TRO. It did not.

[00:07:45]>> It did not.

[00:07:46]>> So, father in a way for more than a year is is an answer.

[00:07:53]Yeah. In in fact uh that constitutes a refusal to grant the TTRO. Yeah.

[00:08:00]>> A TTRO is urgent in nature >> and uh if the court does not grant it, that means it does not see urgency, it does not see a right that needs to be urgently protected.

[00:08:13]Fatherro, the government can go ahead and arrest him.

[00:08:24]>> Of course, it should. In fact, I find the actuations of the Senate highly offensive.

[00:08:31]Yeah.

[00:08:41]father.

[00:08:43]Exactly. In fact, you know this whole concept of protective custody is a new is a fiction that they invented yesterday. You know >> actually the only immunity allowed under the constitution is immunity of the members of Congress from arrest while Congress is in session if the penalty of the crime of which they are charged does not exceed six years >> the the crime of crimes against humanity is punishable by 40 years.

[00:09:14]>> So there's no immunity there.

[00:09:17]>> Mhm. M >> but you know what what what what offends me more is that uh in doing this the Senate sends the people a signal that you can seek refuge in the Senate against the processes of law >> if you are one of them and that's never good for the rule of law >> father illegal yan harboring a fugitive that's on the level of harboring a fugitive Yes, that's correct. That's correct. And obstructing justice.

[00:09:51]>> Yes.

[00:09:52]>> Obstruction of justice. Yeah.

[00:09:56]Father, senators immune from shooting.

[00:10:01]That's correct. That's correct. Yeah.

[00:10:06]Punishment.

[00:10:09]There's a six year rule.

[00:10:13]Obstruction of justice.

[00:10:16]What are some you know for for me it's a matter of being statesmen >> acting like like statesmen and setting an example of statesmanship for the entire country senators father >> which is very sad which is very sad father what what how do you see do you see any way out of this ampass uh um court anytime soon and does not want to come out until Supreme Court.

[00:11:02]>> There is there is actually nothing to prevent law enforcers >> from entering the Senate premises, the Senate building to physically arrest him. the there is the the Senate does not enjoy uh immunity of premises like diplomatic premises. It's not a diplomatic premise. The only reason now NBI withdrew yesterday was out of courtesy to Cayano.

[00:11:29]>> Uh but if they continue acting in a manner that Samler knows that the law I think that the law enforcers should make clear that there is still a rule of law.

[00:11:40]>> Mhm. Because rule of lawy it's just courtesy. Correct.

[00:11:54]>> Courtesy has no legal backing. It may end up looking like camaraderie.

[00:11:58]>> Yes. like Edu.

[00:12:02]In fact, that's how it looks now to many people.

[00:12:18]Exactly. Exactly my point. Exactly my point. So you know in fact the senators themselves should convince Bau to s surrender peasably and allow the process of law to take their course.

[00:12:34]>> Mhm. I think in the past uh the past arrests made on senators while in session in the case of Lima and they were arrested in premises uh but they surrendered actually they surrendered I think after discussion with know with the uh with the senate leadership so in other words with no fanfare we'll give it we'll give up institution >> in fact was it was it more embarrassing instead of facing uh the NBI persons like a gentleman and a statesman uh engaged in a race with them rushing up the stairs and later later on claiming that he was wrestled to the ground when it was very obvious that he tripped and fell while trying to evade them.

[00:13:27]>> That was really shameful.

[00:13:29]Yes, natural din.

[00:13:39]>> It's so natural.

[00:13:45]But you know, Ronald, for me that's very sad. Oh, by the way, I I often follow your commentary.

[00:14:02]No, no, you you make very good points.

[00:14:04]You you know there's that that's a very important point for our people. This is a this is a test for the entire nation whether we are really committed to abiding by the rule of law.

[00:14:17]>> Yeah.

[00:14:23]Yes, that they are destroying the very institution they are supposed to represent.

[00:14:32]Ex.

[00:14:33]>> Exactly. And uh you know uh it's so embarrassing that you try to protect one of your members who is charged with a crime. That that's very embarrassing.

[00:14:44]>> No less than a crime against humanity.

[00:14:47]I'm against humanity.

[00:14:49]>> Uh the argument that they've been putting forward father is uh due process in the rule of law.

[00:14:58]But uh ironically the the charge against uh Senator Bau is uh a failure of >> involves ignoring due processing due process >> over the deaths of 6,000 people.

[00:15:12]>> There is no issue that he is entitled to due process. So let him surrender >> because surrender is essential to the acquisition of jurisdiction.

[00:15:24]The court acquires jurisdiction over the person of the accused by surrender or arrest. The moment he is arrested then he will be accorded due process like Tigong is now receiving due process by being tried. But you know uh ano I'd like to share this with the three of you. Why is he appealing even to the very same president whom he has lambasted several times? Why is he appealing that he should not be handed over to the ICC? Because he knows that he cannot have his way with the ICC like he can even have his way here in the Philippines.

[00:16:05]>> Correct.

[00:16:07]Per option bayon uh father option bon for the Philippines to to investigate and try him in the Philippines for 9851 it will not affect the ICC case. Yes, >> we can do that. We can try we can try it. We can investigate and try it ourselves and under the complimentarity doctrine of the uh international criminal court.

[00:16:37]If we have taken cognizance of it, investigate it and file cases, then the ICC will yield to our jurisdiction.

[00:16:47]>> Ah >> yeah.

[00:16:49]>> Ah so they will stop. Huh?

[00:16:51]>> Yes. Because the uh role of the ICC is complimentary only. In other words, it comes in when the state concerned is unwilling or unable >> unable >> to investigate and to try. And you know many times it is easier for the state to surrender the person to the ICC because uh when a person like Bau or Dong have so many rabid supporters and uh they can stand in the way of the efficient dispensation of justice it is easier to surrender them to the ICC.

[00:17:28]>> Yes.

[00:17:28]>> That's why it's the court of last resort.

[00:17:32]>> Wow.

[00:17:33]>> Yeah.

[00:17:35]>> Okay.

[00:17:38]investigation.

[00:17:41]Even if we try some of the co-perpetrators, it will not stop the ICC belated prosecution on our part.

[00:17:58]However, you cannot uh try them both.

[00:18:02]you cannot try them for the same offense once before the uh uh Philippine authorities, Philippine courts and once before the ICC. Well, it's possible that you tried them uh in the ICC for some crimes and in the Philippines for other crimes, but the the more efficient thing is to let the ICC do it.

[00:18:23]>> Yes.

[00:18:25]>> Okay.

[00:18:26]>> Okay.

[00:18:26]>> Okay. We'd like to say thank you to uh San Ba Graduate School of Law Dean, Father Anilio Aino. Father, thank you for joining us this afternoon and thank you for your insights.

[00:18:36]Thank you everybody. Thank you all.

[00:18:37]Thank you. I mean, thank you.