The brain constructs reality through predictive processing, meaning we don't passively receive information but actively build our experience of the world based on past memories, beliefs, and conditioning. This understanding reveals that our identity acts as a 'set point' that determines our behavior, habits, and what we perceive as possible. Through neuroplasticity, we can rewire our brain's predictive models by shifting our identity, training our perception, and changing our self-concept, which allows us to transform our reality from the inside out.
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You don't see the world with your eyes.
You see the world with your brain. Your thoughts, emotions, memories, beliefs, your past. It's all a construction that's happening inside of a black box.
And that black box is our skull. I didn't used to believe in the power of the mind. I didn't used to believe in any of this. I grew up with so many different health issues and doctors were never really able to help the people that I loved or me.
Everything that I talk about is everything that I needed to hear and that I've personally used to change my life. They raise newborn kittens in complete darkness except for a few hours each day in cylinders painted with only horizontal or only vertical black and white stripes. After that critical period, the kittens that were raised to only ever see these horizontal stripes, they did not respond to vertically oriented objects. It could be right in front of my face and I wouldn't even notice it. Where am I the kitten in my own life? We're fed by this society that your worth really is and how much output you have, how much performance you have.
>> When it becomes your entire identity and it's entangled in your work, it becomes very painful. Your sense of worthiness completely resides on performance. But when you realize that your brain is constructing your entire experience of reality, it's actually quite empowering because Hey everyone, welcome back to the self podcast. Our guest today holds two degrees in neuroscience. She has one of the fastest growing science accounts on social media and she really leverages neuroscience tips and tools to increase well-being in everyday life. Emily McDonald, thanks for being here.
>> Thank you for having me. I'm so excited for this.
>> Yeah, it's a pleasure to meet you.
>> Nice to meet you, too.
>> I want to start actually kind of at the deep end. I think that for people that listen to podcasts like mine and work like yours, they're pursuing betterment of their lives to some degree. And I think one doorway into that is to first examine how malleable your reality is and how much you construct it internally. And so I want to start with how your brain constructs reality to kind of open in the door of uh who we are and and the life that we create. So when I say the term your brain constructs your reality, what comes to mind?
I love that you say diving straight into the deep end. This was actually kind of the thing that opened the doorway for me into knowing myself, knowing life, building the life that I want. And it was because that's one of the first things you learn about when I was getting my first degree in neuroscience is sort of how your brain constructs reality. And the first thing that comes to mind for me was I remember when I first heard the phrase you don't see the world with your eyes, you see the world with your brain. All your eyes do is take in light signals and then those light signals travel through the brain where your thoughts, emotions, memories, beliefs, your past is all incorporated before the image is even put together that you see. Right? So you're not experiencing a lot of times we feel like we are kind of experiencing this outside world, but really what we are experiencing is a construction that's happening inside of a black box. And that black box is our skull. And so we don't actually have like a an experience of what's really out there. We have an experience of what our brain is constructing. And it uses information through our five senses, but also through our past, our memories, our programming, our identity. And I remember I when I was getting my first degree, I was working in a vision lab where I specifically was just doing data analysis. That was my job. But it was about color vision. And we I my job was to kind of run all this code and then map on a color plot how different individuals in in this in this case it was monkeys in the rainforest. Like this lab actually had people go out. These were real monkeys in the rainforest. Um and we we knew the genotypes of these monkeys and we could map on a color plot how these different monkeys would perceive different colored fruits in the rainforest. It would be the same fruit.
You'd take the illuminance, the reflectance of the color of the fruit and you could put it through what they actually call a quantum catch, which is funny because you were mentioning the word quantum earlier. Um, but yeah, it was called a quantum catch and it's just a way to kind of do these measurements and you could then see on a color plot how this same colored fruit is perceived differently, like different shades of color. And I remember that really kind of opening the doorway for me and being like, whoa. you know, you look out here and you think to yourself, I'm seeing, you know, the ground or seeing you the same way somebody else might see you, but that's not actually the case at all.
And I remember I've been in discussions before with, you know, even my fiance where it's like, this shirt is pink.
It's like, I don't know. I don't really see it as that color. Um, but now I know it's like, no, actually his brain's just constructing it wrong and and it's it's it's mine that's constructing it right.
But we all perceive it different differently, right? And I think it's so interesting to kind of explore that and explore, you know, I don't think that we're meant to see reality the same because we're all kind of meant to have these different perspectives and and make the world a more interesting place that way. And so, yeah, I mean, it's a deep rabbit hole that we can go down when thinking about that. But, I mean, that's just vision that I explained, but I remember there was another study that we kind of dove into. This was actually in my PhD because we had different kind of specialists come in and teach us about different, you know, sensory systems. And specifically, the taste one kind of sticks with me cuz there was this study or this experiment where it's called like the bitter tea experiment where they would have these mice kind of drink this tea that was very bitter and they wouldn't drink it.
>> Kind of like us from this podcast.
>> I like this tea actually. I love green tea. Um but yeah, exactly. And so they would they wouldn't drink it, right? Cuz it was bitter. So they they wouldn't drink it. But what they would do then is they actually kind of made this genetic switch where they didn't change the taste buds in these mice tongues. What they changed was the wiring, the path from the taste bud to kind of the area in the brain where we decipher taste.
And what they found was that all of a sudden now these mice are drinking it like it's sweet. And so what they've found is that it's not the the you know tea binding to the the taste bud on your tongue that creates the perception of taste. It's actually the receptor to the brain pathway. And we know this, right?
Like some people love cilantro and some people think it tastes like soap. It's the same cilantro. We have the same, you know, taste buds, maybe a different combination, but it's really the pathways in our brain that's different.
And so depending on our brain and our programming, on our conditioning, on our genetics, on our past, we're actually perceiving things like taste or vision or color differently. And I love color specifically because I remember when I started looking into that and really like looking into color and knowing once you look into the science of it, you kind of start to real like color actually doesn't even exist as a physical property of reality. It's actually not even like quote unquote real. And that I remember I was at South by Southwest speaking and I was this girl was just asking me about what I do and she had to take a moment to like step back actually like I don't think I can ask you another question for a second. Um because yeah when you realize like well something that we perceive as so inherently real like color like we just assume it's real that it exists. It seems just like such a normal property of reality that we never question like it actually does not even exist as color out there. It exists as different wavelengths of light. And then our brain kind of made up this color experience so that we could decipher between these different wavelengths of light. So yeah, I mean the brain constructing reality is so interesting and so cool. Um, and it really is the first thing that kind of made me realize, wo, if the brain is constructing something as simple as color, like what how else is my sort of experience being, you know, determined by my brain? And there's I mean, the one last study I can share with you that I think that you maybe were thinking about when you asked this question was the kitten experiment. Um, and I remember when like learning about the kitten experiment for the first time and basically what they did was they took newborn kittens and they raised them in complete darkness except for a few hours each day where they would put them in cylinders. And these cylinders were either painted with only vertical black and white stripes or only horizontal black and white stripes. And they did this throughout the critical period of development of their visual system. And after that critical period, they put them into a normal environment.
And what they found was that the kittens that were raised to only ever see these horizontal stripes, they did not respond normally to vertically oriented objects.
So like table legs, chair legs, they did not respond like they even had the experimenters take a vertical rod and wave it in front of their face and they didn't respond to it. And it was the exact opposite for the kittens that had only ever seen the vertical stripes.
they, you know, they could perceive the vertical objects like the table legs, but they wouldn't get up and perch on horizontal ledges and they wouldn't respond normally to horizontal oriented objects. And so I remember learning about that experiment and again it's just kind of, you know, all the vision system and the taste and all of our senses, that's kind of the micro level, but then when you think about the kitten experiment, this is sort of the macro level of how our programming is actually shaping our reality. And and when I learned about that, I was like, whoa, like where am I the kitten in my own life? And I ask myself this all the time, like every time I want to level up or I have a new goal, like, okay, like where am I the kitten right now? Because maybe this new thing that I'm wanting is a stripe that I've never seen. And if I've never seen it and it's not familiar to my brain, it could be right in front of my face and I wouldn't be able to capitalize on that opportunity or I wouldn't even be able to maybe even necessarily notice it. I might not even notice it. And so, yeah, I think that all of this together kind of just really had me start to really think about, okay, wow, my brain is really constructing my entire experience of reality. And if that's true, I remember when I first told my grandma about this, and she was terrified. She was like, well, that's scary, Emily. Why are you saying this to me? Like, she was actually scared. And, you know, I don't blame her. It's kind of, you know, shifting. But, um, I said, "No, mammy.
Like it's not it's not terrifying. It's actually quite empowering because when you realize that your brain is constructing your entire experience of reality then and through and you understand the power of neuroplasticity, right? You can actually rewire your brain and adapt and learn new things and familiarize yourself with new things, then you can actually change your experience of reality and that's where it gets super empowering.
>> Yeah, well said. I I think is a great entry point which for many people is like the red pill in the matrix. you know, you start to take, okay, I want to see what reality actually is or start to understand the difference between what I experience and what is what it is. And the Truman show also when you start to wake up to how everything is constructed and it's kind of the status quo and everyone's walking around with these prior assumptions and beliefs that >> just become pervasive. But >> starting even just with the visual systems across the animal kingdom, right? Not even just within humans are we different, but what is it like within the conscious experience of an octopus, right, or a dolphin or bats that use echolocation and snakes and the mantis shrimp, which has way more cones of color than we that we ever have had. And it's fascinating because it's like, okay, we're all and we've had Donald Hoffman on who's a consciousness researcher on the show and he kind of has spent a lot like many years exploring the different ways in which our visual systems are created for survival adaptation and not to actually see reality as it is. And it's actually the percentage chance that we would is precisely 0%.
And so that is like sometimes a bit destabilizing but also kind of freeing.
It's like like the red pill into this doorway of seeing life as it actually can be. A few other thinkers in the space, you know, Anneil Seth who talks about how um we kind of hallucinate reality.
>> Yeah. He calls it a controlled hallucination.
>> Yeah. Controlled hallucination. Andy Clark who is the experience machine um serving uncertainty talks about how we don't just filter and perceive reality, we literally predict it. Mhm.
>> And and so like these start to crack away at this like previously held belief that reality is as it seems. And I think once we start to crack in that door, then we can crack also into our own sense of self. And like you said when your own story where where am I the kitten? That's a it's a funny way to phrase it, you know, but where am I seeing the vert vertical lines only in my life, right? And that starts to be the doorway into deconstructing our sense of self which is completely tied to what we create in our life. And so uh when you when you think about how we are a predictive our brains are a predictive machine neurologically speaking um and you now bring this into okay I'm looking how to create more peace prosperity in my life um build more abundance in my life and ultimately just get into reality and become more intimate with how it actually is. How has that so for like give me one example where you were that kitten you know where where an example in your life personally did you presume life was a certain way and then you came to see oh I can see it in a deeper in a different way.
>> Yeah. I was the kitten in so many different areas. I really I mean just to kind of provide some context here everything that I talk about is everything that I needed to hear and that I've personally used to change my life. And so I kind of was the kitten everywhere. And I was like, "Okay, I need to, you know, um, show myself a lot of new things, but one specific sort of example is around abundance and money. I mean, I grew up hearing, you know, money doesn't grow on trees and different phrases like that.
>> Money is the root of all evil."
>> Right. Right. And I I feel like that one especially, it kind of brought up this like guilt in me for even wanting to charge my worth or even wanting to make more money. And it's like when you feel guilty for even having a goal, then you're I mean that's just going against your own identity there and your brain's not going to want to help you go and do that. Um but specifically with um this money example kind of money doesn't grow on trees. I actually I mean there were a number of experiences where I kind of shifted right I mean just showing myself ex I always call it looking for evidence of the opposite. So looking for examples in reality where my belief isn't true. Um whether it be in other people in society just different examples where it might not be true or even from my own past where it might not be true. And then, you know, yes, maybe starting through affirmations or visualization, maybe training my perception. Um, and perception training is something that I found to be so useful for just so many different things. But specifically for this example, kind of just training my perception like, hey, if you want to see more money, then you need to train your brain for that. And you don't just ask, you don't just say, I want to see more money. you actually look for it and train your brain to see it more and kind of prime your brain for that through, you know, affirmations or things like that. Um, but kind of through shadow work, I was able to go back into my past and, you know, be like, okay, you know, I I've never been in a position where I was living in a box on the side of the road. So maybe, you know, my beliefs aren't necessarily accurate about this.
And then also when I was in my PhD, I actually ran into a monk on campus who was just handing out books and I remember this was kind of in the beginning of my spiritual journey and I went up to this monk and we had a conversation. He was like, "You have this aura." And I was like, "Thanks."
And he's like, "Have you ever met a spiritual master before?" I was like, "No." And he's like, "Do you want to meet one?" Absolutely. I want to meet a spiritual master. And so I went to the temple. And after that, I went to the temple probably every day that for like months and I became friends with all these monks. But I remember being at the temple once and this one woman asked a question to the spiritual teacher and she said you know is it bad or you know not spiritual to want to be abundant and what the spiritual master said completely changed my life and the way that I look at it because he said no actually it is one of the most spiritual things that you can do is to be abundant like it is it like if you look out at nature like nature is abundant um and specific temple was a Krishna temple and so they talked about Krishna and and how Krishna was abundant you know in the Bhagavad Gita and um I just after that I was like no it's like that's really true that it is you know just in nature to be abundant when a like you have a lemon bush out there like when that bush blossoms with fruit like there's so many lemons on there it's not just one lemon it's abundant with lemons and we actually used to have a lemon tree in our backyard as well and they'd be all on the ground and our dog would be running and getting them and eating them um but Yeah. And so after that I started to realize no actually it is in our true nature to be abundant. And so that's kind of where your phrase that you just brought up um like it's the root of all evil. It kind of shifted for me and I now look at it as it really is a tool, right? It really is a tool and what you do with that tool very much is up to the person and it's sort of like testosterone. I'm just thinking like from scientific standpoint where they've actually shown that more testosterone at least in in animals doesn't necessarily make animals more aggressive. it just amplifies their nature.
>> Um, and so it didn't make them more aggressive, right? It just like some of them became more loving. And so money kind of works that way too where you give someone more money, it doesn't necessarily make them evil. It can make the right people a better able to help others. And so yeah, just kind of reprogramming my mind. And then after that, after realizing, I remember I heard on a podcast once like it's abundant. It's everywhere. Go to the grocery store and look around. every single person, you know, has money coming from a different place. Like go around and just go out into the public and look at all these different people.
Everybody's making money a different way. And that's one way to kind of expand your perception and be like, "Wow, yeah, there are an infinite different number of ways for money to come to you." And then I remember I had it was from this hypnosis track and it was like money comes to me in expected and unexpected ways. And I started to open my mind to maybe you don't have to always work so hard for it. Maybe it can come to you in unexpected ways and maybe you know my energy has a lot to do with it. And I remember um one morning wake after waking up to one of those tracks going outside and finding like a $20 bill on the railroad tracks outside of my apartment and being like, whoa, maybe this is actually the way that it is. And then over time kind of building that belief muscle to where now these are new stripes that are familiar to my brain and this is what I see. And then kind of on that predictive processing note that you were kind of getting at there is is yeah so your brain isn't just constructing based on the information.
It actually holds a model of the world, right, based on your past. And then it uses that model to predict your present and your future, right? And so it's not necessarily using your senses to construct reality right now. It's using your senses to kind of update the model and the prediction that it's already made about your experience right now.
And so yeah, I mean I I do kind of refer to the brain as a prediction machine and that it's always predicting what's going to happen through predictive processing.
And so when you start to update these predictions, then you kind of start through, you know, training your perception, everything that I was just talking about, then you actually start to experience reality differently.
>> Yeah, well said. Yeah, our perception at that point really fills in the gaps of what we're already expecting from our life. And I think starting to take that into the personal lens is like what are the assumptions and beliefs I have about life, about love, about prosperity, about all these different things that aren't like aren't necessarily true. They're not one way or the other. It's like we can adopt and through neuroplasticity, which I'd love to get your perspective on, change our sense of self, change the beliefs that we hold. And another great book on this topic or at least in the um the user illusion is this book talking about where I think I've heard you mention like the 11 million bits or so of information that are around us and the very narrow actual like we're looking through life through the straw hole. It's like we're getting a very small amount of sensory input based on what's necessary for us to survive and navigate our experience. Um, but it's actually not useful for life to show us objective reality. Just like it's not useful for a laptop to show you all the electrical switches that are happening on the motherboard or the different parts of the the computer, it gives you a user interface that's workable, you know, and a desktop screen that you can actually do stuff on. And that's similarly like how our life is kind of constructed uh neurologically speaking.
Now when you mentioned you back like this one example that you gave and through your journey with your PhDs starting to rewire what you start to perceive and what you expect uh the default mode network and the neurocoralates of our structure and sense of self I think is important to examine here because that is largely where and I'd love for you to continue to elaborate and speak to where our sense of self self is constructed stored And um the show is called know thyself, you know, and so we we like to examine this previously held notion of a solid separate individualistic self and all the things that are attached to it.
So what is the DMN and what are some like uh fun facts that you've loved to explore in regards to all that? Yeah.
And I think on the topic of know thyself, I mean, the way that I navigate identity is really on two levels. Um, and so, you know, in the beginning of my journey, I kind of woke up right to the fact that, you know, maybe I'm not my thoughts, maybe I'm not my brain, maybe I'm not this body, I maybe I'm, you know, the consciousness, the energy, whatever word you want to use. Maybe I'm the divine life force energy in a human body expressing itself through the human experience. Maybe that's what I am. And so I think, you know, getting to know thyself from my in my like personal opinion before going into the science is really more about actually stepping beside all of the physical. So I mean for me like meditation was just absolutely like paramount in my journey and in my life and in my transformation.
I would not be here. I would not be where I am today without meditation. And truly, that's where I feel that I've gotten to know my deeper inner self that is beyond all of the labels and the language that we use to describe it. One of my favorite phrases is like the Dow that can be named is not the Dao. And I always say like as soon as you start to kind of put labels and language onto it, you sort of take its power away. And actually from the neuroscience perspective, it is true. It's why when you're feeling anxious or emotional um and you start to label the emotions that you're feeling, you activate the prefrontal cortex which turns down activity in the lyic system which are the emotional centers of the brain. So you actually and it's the same reason why when you look at a sunset, as soon as you start to describe the sunset, you stop feeling it as deeply. Um and so it's like as soon as you try to start describing yourself with words and you put language on it, you kind of take its power away. And so that's kind of my first part about knowing thyself and identity.
>> So that's great. I feel like that's the gift and the curse of the scientific endeavor, right? It's like you learn so much by dissecting the world into its parts and you can understand what it's made up of. But the more you reduce something to its form, the more you're like disconnected from its essence. And so I'm I'm you know that why I try to strive on this balance with my with my show and the conversations I have. And similarly I feel like with you in your work when you explore spirituality and the themes thereof and then also the scientific understanding and try to merge the two it's a it can be tricky terrain to not reduce um all emotional and spiritual components to the neural cororalates and to brain activity um and to go into this deterministic route. And then likewise it can be you can conflate you can go too far on the spiritual front without understanding uh and really just having a grounded and uh integrated approach to understand both sides of it. So um I uh I love that you try to walk that line and and try to honor both without you know >> u bastardizing the other. I had a moment actually before we go into the DMN, I had a moment >> um not that long ago where I was thinking about the neuroscience of intuition, right? And I think from the deterministic kind of reductionist standpoint, you can think of intuition, you know, a lot of scientists will say, you know, it's, you know, the nervous system in your gut. It's the entic nervous system or maybe it's your programming. And they've shown that when your nervous system is disregulated or you're stressed, you have low heart rate variability, your intuition is less accurate, right? Um, and so I know from personal experience, right, and I've developed this. I remember when I first learned about this while I was in my PhD, actually, it's like, "Oh, wait. You can go into meditation and just ask a question and the answer can come. That's so cool." And I was like, "I don't think that's something I can do." I was like, "Oh, that's something that you're born with. That's not a power that I could develop. That's a power." And then through practice, I actually have been able to develop that. And while yes, you can say that there is like you can scan someone's brain while they have a moment like that and say this certain neural activity is the representation of that intuition and and say that the neural activity drove it. You can't say what drove that neural activity. You can't say like whether it was the universe or God or whatever terminology you want to use. Like you can't necessarily say what drove it. And so that's where for me I think yeah I think it's really cool to walk that line of science. I mean in my personal opinion I I view science as a tool and a lens through which you can look at life but it's not the only lens that you can look at life through. And I think the more lenses you look at life through the better view that you can have and the more holistic perspective that you can have. And that's where you actually can start to gain that better understanding.
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co/ know thyself. They're going to ask you how you found them and let them know we sent you. I appreciate it. Until next time, be well. Yeah, there I mean when you examine consciousness itself, that's why the term coined by Chalmer of the hard problem of consciousness is specifically hard because it makes no sense from the materialist perspective why at some point matter would gain an experience of itself. And even though when you see the color red and there's a neurolet that lights up in your brain, I'm not going to cut you open and find red there, right? Just like the taste of garlic or the taste of mint. Like it's the the experience of of life itself is uh is yet to be explained by turning up the dial of unconscious complexity in our neurological brain, you know, grain gray matter. We don't understand that. Um and maybe we will one day. maybe consciousness is something that is just more fundamental and the mystics maybe have it right. So, it's it's cool and and I do I'm glad that you like to honor and and respect both because I think again you go too far in the mystical woowoo side um it can quickly get unggrounded and then also you go too far in the materialist realm and you start to really experience life devoid of meaning.
>> Yeah. Life loses its magic. Yeah. And I think I think it's okay to just say we don't know. Like it it's okay to just like I have no idea because then you just get to decide for yourself what you want it to be. And I think that's really fun. And that's a power that we've been given as human beings that we have we have this amazing superpower where we get to choose meaning. And not all species have that. Like we have that and so we get to choose that. And so if we don't know like why not choose a meaning that serves you and that serves your life and that serves your mental health and your physical health like why not do that? Um in my opinion that's that's what I find more fun to do.
>> So let's go deeper into identity the sense of self.
>> Okay. So on the other hand when I'm looking at identity I mean the default mode network it's been shown to kind of hold it's it's it's a complicated network. It doesn't do one thing, nor does any area in the brain do one thing.
The brain is so complicated. Um, but the default mode network, it's kind of known as holding this self-concept, this identity or ego, like the story of who you are. And what I've seen, I mean, in my own life, in my people that I coach, in, you know, in studies is that, I mean, especially in studies with psychedelics, right, where they take people that struggle with addictions or like mental illnesses or disorders and they have them go through these psychedelic experiences and which involve a huge turning down in the default mode network. Now, all of a sudden, they come out the other side, this new version of themselves, right?
So we've seen this kind of all right altering our activity in the default mode network all of a sudden changes you and it we we it's happening long term and we don't I mean we don't necessarily know exactly you know what's going on but we do see a huge downshift in default mode network activity um and we also see that downshift in meditation and hypnosis different things like that like deep relaxation states but default mode network activity is also involved in mind wandering and imagination right and I think it's super cool actually when you start to think about just all of the different ways the default mode network kind of does play into our lives because it's also sort of that default mode of behavior that unconscious sort of like when we're not consciously like we have a task positive network that turns on when we are positively doing a task when we are focusing on something like I gotta drink this tea I'm gonna do that task or I'm gonna write this book or whatever it is and then we have you know and that kind of is the seessaw with the default mode network which is really the network that's active when we're not working on anything specific and we're just allowing ourselves to imagine a future or our mind is wandering. And it's really interesting when you start to think about how your default mode network holds this concept of who you are and it also is active when you are imagining. And so now we start to put all these pieces together and you start to realize, okay, so this maybe future that I'm imagining for myself, this default behavior that I'm doing when I'm not actively focused on consciously changing, right? Um because creating a new life requires responding and not reacting. But if we're reacting as an old version of ourselves, then we are acting as that story of who we are.
And so it really is that default mode network activity, that self-concept, that story of who we are, that identity that we hold, um, whatever the labels that we use to describe ourselves, that's really driving this default behavior, way of thinking, way of feeling. And one of the things that I always say is your identity is your destiny in this life. And um I I really look at this from the neuroscience standpoint specifically in that whoever you see yourself as who whatever the labels are that you identify with that's going to determine your behavior, your thoughts, your emotions, it's going to determine the underlying kind of motivations that you feel and those they determine our habits. And I get asked questions. I mean there's a specific question I get in my comments all the time. It's like I'm trying to go to the gym. I'm trying to be more active, more fit, but I keep falling off. I'll do it for two weeks, then I keep falling off.
Like, why do I keep falling off? And there are, you know, of course, many reasons for why that could be. But what I found that most people don't kind of look into is their identity. And a lot of the time when we're trying to start a new habit or work toward a new goal, we don't see ourselves as the type of person who does that habit or this goal.
And that's detrimental to our ability to do that habit or that goal because yes, you can force and push yourself to do it. But as soon as maybe you're a little stressed, a little tired, a little unmotivated, don't have the energy and you fall back into that default mode, well, the default mode network's going to continue to propel you based on whoever however you see yourself and your identity. And so something that I'll always tell people is just like, well, have you shifted your identity?
Have you decided to literally as simply put as this identify as the version of you who does that? Have you rewritten the story of who you are to fit this new thing that you're trying to work toward?
And this is another thing that I do every single time I have a new goal or a new kind of level I want to go to is like, okay, for example, writing my book in the beginning, I was just procrastinating on starting to write this book. And every single time I would sit down like I'm going to write today and I would sit down and then all of a sudden I'm like oh I got an idea for a video. I'm going to go film that and oh wait but those dishes or I should go clean that or go put that and it's like everything maybe a podcast episode you know everything other than write the book and you know when I I I'm a student of my own work when I go into I'm like okay like what's going on here I'm like oh you know my identity is not author it is not write a book like that's not familiar to me at all. I've never written a book before. And so my brain isn't necessarily going to motivate me to when there are multiple options and multiple choices, my brain is going to motivate me to make the choice that aligns with who I am. It's not necessarily going to make me motivate me to make the choice that aligns with what I want.
>> And even though I want the book, that doesn't align with who I current how I currently see myself. And now I'm being motivated to do things that don't align with this goal. But as soon as I shifted, I'm like, you know what? I'm an author. I see myself as an author. Maybe I can do a little mini visualization like yes, here I am. I see myself writing the book. Like best-selling book, it's great. Um, and literally just as simply as that. Okay, I'm I'm an author. What does an author do? Well, they make it a habit of writing whether small or big. And there are many ways I had to break down the habit of writing and um, you know, overcoming effort, discounting and dope and all the different things. But really what helped me get started was sort of just deciding I'm an author. What does an author do?
How does how does an author version of me move? And when I realized that, I'm like, okay, well, I'm going to go to a coffee shop with the specific goal of this and I'm going to specifically just do this and nothing else. And when I started doing that, making a habit of it through repetition, it became easy, right? And just strengthening those neural pathways in my brain. And then, you know, before I knew it, I was done writing after a long journey of writing.
Not to say it was easy, but that it was a huge um kind of helping hand. And it's helped me. And I I will say just clients that I've worked with. I mean, students that I've coached, I've had people come to me with lifelong bad habits and things that they really struggle. I had one person that I coached that he he really struggled with always reverting back to old junk food eating habits and he came to me and he he had to learn about you know neuroscience like in my course includes the neuroscience of habit formation how to make and break habits because I studied drug addiction when I was in my PhD so I I know a lot about habit formation and he's like I know how it works and all that but I just he's like I got stressed and I always whenever I'm stressed I always revert back to that and I was Well, there you go. That's the story that you're telling about yourself. You know, you get stressed and you always fall back to that pattern. I said, tell yourself a new story. You know, you don't do that anymore. That's not what you do when you're stressed. And then come up with the plan. Like, what do you do when you're stressed? You know, like replace the habit. Like, replacement is so important. And tell that story instead. And two weeks later, he came back and he's like, "Yeah, I told my friend that I'm just not that person anymore." And he's like, "My friend laughed at me, but I'm really not. I don't do that anymore." And now I mean he's done with the program and he's just thriving and he's like getting married and all that and he's doing great. But I mean that's just one example of habits but I've also had you know clients where we go through I have this specific identity shifting visualization where um I have people you know get really clear on who the version of themselves is that has it all. And you know I have people come back and say like this one specific client come back and say he had the best week of the year in his business after identity shifting. Um, and I always say, there's something that I always say, it's like the reason that you don't have what it is that you want is because you're not the version of you who has what it is that you want. And as soon as you can close that gap between where you are now, like the version of you who you are now, and that version of you who has what you want, you would have it. Um, and I've really seen it so many times where as soon as you shift your identity into that. And identity isn't just labels, right? Because your brain doesn't just listen to your thoughts, it also listens to who you're being. Um, and so action is really important here and paying attention to different identity anchors like your environment.
We're talking about the importance of environment and your habits and your thoughts and the people around you. Just so many different things. But that's why, you know, getting super clear on who the version of you who has has it all. Like who is that version of you when you close your eyes and you see yourself achieving the thing? Like what are their habits like? What's their energy like? What's their mindset like?
Their beliefs all of that. When you can get really clear on that and actually move like that person, things just start unfolding in a completely different way and you know I can you know talk about the neuroscience behind that because yes your brain activity shifts the the reality that your brain is predicting for you shifts right the predictive processing shifts um your energy shifts right you feel better because usually when I ask people who's the version of you who has it all majority of the percentage of people say they're more confident like so many people will say that version of me is more confident. And okay, if you step into that confidence, you start to have this different energy. You start to feel better. And there is plenty of research that shows like broaden and build theory, different research fields that have shown that when your energy shifts, yes, you are more open to opportunities.
You actually can perceive more blessings around you. I mean, there's research that's actually shown that um when you're in positive emotional states, you experience more synchronicities in your life. And so yes, of course, like your your identity shifting and we can see like the neuroscience of that, but also there's this other hand just on this note of like playing with both fields is that, you know, I've experienced times in my life where I shift my energy and, you know, identity shifting is one way to do that. And I I'll be I'll I'll have a couple of days where I'm stressed and I'm overthinking something. And I have this best friend, she's still in her PhD. And I got in the car and I was driving to go see her that weekend. And I'm like, I can't wait to. And as soon as I get in the car, every the weight just falls off. Everything is like, I'm just so happy to go and see my best friend. And as soon as that shifted, this thing that I had been stressed about that I've been waiting on, I go on my phone at like a red light or something, and this person had messaged me the exact thing that I had been stressed about and waiting on, and it was like the exact opportunity or answer I was waiting on receiving. And it's like, yeah, sure, we can we can say I mean, we can say that your brain is more open to that stuff, but also, I mean, I don't think that there's necessarily science quite yet to explain like, yes, my energy shifting, I was able to experience the thing that I wanted. I don't necessarily know that there's a study that explains why that happened.
But what I do know is that every time I really go from that stressed, anxious, you know, attached state to letting go and just feeling good, something good happens.
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Yeah, there's I remember I mean way back studying different books like psychocybernetics and understanding the set point we have identity-wise like we all have a thermostat in our house that's set to 72 and let's say it the the air kicks on at 75 and the heat kicks on at 68 or something right and so it'll keep you within the boundary of what the set point is and we all have that set point identity wise which is what you're speaking to and that set point of identity is a complete match to a certain level of every area of life, relationships, fitness, abundance, service, contribution. Uh we're going to see the the correspondence there. I love how you provided a few different ends to be able to change behavior because I think that anytime somebody is desiring change in their life, there is resistance that they're going to meet. And something that you shared was the importance of replacement. Like it's so much easier to uh replace a bad habit with something that is life-giving rather than just get rid of a bad habit full stop. Like there's that void then that we try to figure out and fill with some other way which might not be serving, right? We might give up a vape and then it's to, you know, a porn addiction or to social media or something that's filling that dopamineergic impulse. Um I had a uh Daniel Seagull who's an incredible um individual. I had him on like the first 10 or 20 episodes of this podcast. He had an incident riding a horse where he like fell off and like hit his head uh quite severely and it really damaged his default mode network more specifically.
And he had like a spontaneous like awakening after after that moment for the months that ensued. And it was like this lucidity to his experience where he just didn't have like a sense of self like we all do. And it was really fascinating because he he studies this for a living and then he had this experience and this injury where it damaged a part of his brain and then he had this completely different sense of joy in life. What he describes is like a much more bottom up processing rather than top down processing in life.
Meaning you're meeting life as it is not as you you know think it ought to be in in every given moment. And like that's a that's a place of freedom. Like when you move from life from that place and you get to meet things with not just your priors but but paying attention to what it is. And in my personal life that's come through meditation practice finding more still stillness and silence. I can be less judgmental. I can be less assumptuous. Um, and and it's just like a more free way to live life that I that I um I think we all crave cuz that I feel like is also our inner like that's that's our truest state. Um, now you gave the example a couple times of like habit formation and habit change. And anytime somebody does want to go through that state of transformation from a certain level of behavior that is corresponding to a life, right, and the energetic components of that, um, rewriting these stories and like in your case, you said shadow work. many people that have different ways to get insight into how we can start to crack at the foundations of who we have been and who we essentially perceive ourel to be. Um, one great example which I feel like connects to your your monk story earlier about abundance is uh in the Bhagad Gita they say that detachment is not in having nothing, it's in nothing having you. So you can have things as long as the things don't have you. You can have possessions as long as you're not possessed by the possessions. And so I think when sometimes people hear spiritual folks like building uh a business, making more money, it one can trigger a lot of insecurities personally and your own beliefs that they might have around what it means to make money as somebody who's helping people, right?
Um which is revealing in its own sense for that person. But it's also just an insight into how you can have it all.
You can have a life of prosperity and abundance and meaningful relationships.
And the main thing that's stopping you from doing so is that set point that we were speaking to earlier of what we're expecting from life as just like the status quo. Like I expect to make a certain amount of money. I expect to be a certain level of health and vitality and um and so yeah, I think this is this is all really supportive for people. And I love how concise you make it in your short reels. like you're really you're really good at delivering with the hooks and getting people into um these these powerful insights which if applied can lead to a completely radically transformed life. Um any other thoughts you have there on habit formation specifically? So when somebody is desiring change let's say somebody is desiring something in their life full stop. I find that there can be kind of a few different fundamental energies in which is that's coming from. One is like there's this calling I I feel like I I'm being pulled towards more more giving more service and that calling is different than being driven and dragged by like fear at a at a fundamental level. Like for me it kind of breaks down into love and fear. I'm curious for you like somebody could desire something from a place of desperation and that is actually reinforcing a feeling of lack in your life. Saying you want something so strongly being desperate for it is in many ways reinforcing the energy that you don't already have it versus being in the energy through your v visualizations through your your meditations through going to see your friend and going on a road trip or meeting her you know where she lives.
that gets you into a state where you're in the feeling vibration of what you want. And so there's a couple things here I'd just love for you to to to go off of. One is like >> we fundamentally want the feelings behind the things we say we want >> and then the differences of where our kind of come froms are energetically, you know. So I'd love for you to spin off whatever feels true.
>> Yeah. So I mean there's kind of three different things. Um absolutely on the feeling states and the habits we can get to. I kind of want to go into the middle where you were saying about kind of what drives us because this is actually some research that I was looking into I think yesterday. I I was just, you know, like what what is the number one predictor of success? Like what is the number one predictor of success? And it's grit.
They've shown in studies that it's grit.
What is grit? It's perseverance times passion. And I'm like, what is passion?
Like what what is passion scientifically? because you know um it's kind of a loaded term and what I've found through you know my research is that there's actually two different forms of passion which is this harmonious passion which is driven by love and it's driven by you know the want to do it rather than the have to do it and it's it's a part of who you are but it's not the whole picture of who you are like when you're and I experienced this actually when I was in my PhD and I was you know toying with the idea of graduating early and going off um and onto my own thing to pursue starting my own business and helping people more in a hands-on way. Um, I had this, you know, I'm a PhD student. I am, you know, all these things. And that identity was keeping me from moving forward on a journey and on a kind of path that was actually way more aligned.
And so that was something that I ran into where it was kind of like my entire identity was wrapped up in what I was doing. And that is actually sort of leaning more into the other side of passion which is like obsessive passion which is driven by fear or anxiety or pressure to perform pressure from whatever outside force and it's your entire sense of who you are. Your your entire identity is wrapped up in it. And so it is exactly that. It's kind of like okay like what makes like what is the number one predictor of success and it's perseverance right? So consistency like just keep going no matter what and that's multiplied by how passionate you are whether it is from this place of love or this place of fear and what I like what I know to be true scientifically is that we are you know we are less likely to get what we want from this state of desperation and just from kind of the neuroscience fact that when we are stressed when we are anxious we sort of get this tunnel vision where we are less open to opportunities or alternate paths, alternate choices.
Maybe this one path that you have like we have this goal and I've had this happen to me in my own life where I have this goal and I think I know the way. I think I know the way and I it's not working on that way and this one specific thing is just not working on that way and I actually it was in yoga whenever I was in my meditation and it came to me that you know maybe the way that you think that you know it's going to work isn't the way and maybe you know it's it's actually a different way and it can still happen and still work for you the way that you want but it's a different it's not necessarily in this way and it allowed me to just drop into that state of kind of surrender and trust and actually when I first went to my PhD, I had trust and surrender written on sticky notes everywhere because it was just such this state of I have no idea what's going to happen. I don't I know anyone there. Um I I was just going into this brand new experience completely blind. And um yeah, and that really helped me through.
And so yeah, I think whenever we think about, you know, perseverance as well and just on this like what makes what helps somebody persevere like what what allows you to persevere and continue and it is, you know, one your identity and how how you see yourself um and and kind of the self-concept that you hold about yourself. And they've shown in studies that um the the self-concept that you have, kind of the story you have about yourself, determines whether a challenge either confirms your belief that this challenge is the reason why you shouldn't be doing it or this challenge is an opportunity to grow, to level up in the game and it's actually going to help you. And it's just another example of we get to decide the meaning, but your identity and your self-concept and your belief in yourself and how you see yourself, maybe even your self-worth a little bit actually determines your perception of this challenge. And so a lot of different things kind of play into this equation. But um that's kind of the first point that I wanted to kind of sit on there because absolutely I have experienced so many times. I mean my own kind of personal philosophy on even content creation. I have never posted consistently ever from the very beginning. I've never had a consistent posting schedule. I don't even have a posting schedule. Never. With long form content I do. I'm stepping more into the structuredness of it. But I've never Yes. I post a lot, but that's because I allow I I do it because I love it. Like I never my plan was never to create content ever. I had when I was in undergrad, my senior year, I maybe my junior year, I took a class on the neurobiology of drug addiction. Learned about why the current treatments to prevent relapse don't work. They don't have a high efficacy rate. And it was because they were putting band-aids on symptoms rather than actually treating the root. And that was something that I resonated with in my own life because I grew up with so many different health issues and people very close to me growing up also had so many health issues and doctors were never really able to help the people that I loved or me. And so it immediately kind of a light bulb moment went off where I was like this is it. This is what I'm going to do. I'm going to go to my PhD and I'm going to study. I'm going to cure drug addiction. Uh that's what I'm going to do. And I and after that I kind of this was what triggered kind of my whole self-development journey because I realized that if I have this big goal then I'm going to need to be the version of me like I'm going have to be a better version of myself like I'm not going to achieve it like this. And so I kind of went on this path to sort of becoming a better version of myself, believing in myself. And on that journey just discovered, you know, learning neuroscience and my degrees and all of that. um started treating myself like my own guinea pig and I completely changed my mindset because I didn't used to believe in the power of the mind. I didn't used to believe in any of this.
Like I used to actually have a friend in high school that would be like you could do anything you set your mind to and I would get mad at him when he would say that. So I didn't used to have this mindset or these beliefs at all. Um, and through that journey on my own, I fig I was like, "Whoa, this stuff is really helpful." And I just started literally posting it on like my Snapchat stories for my friends like, "Hey guys, go outside in the morning, get your sunlight, uh, just like different little things." And my friends were like, "M, this is really helpful. Can you keep posting this stuff?" And then eventually one of my friends was like, "M, you got to be posting this on like Instagram or Tik Tok. Like, this is so helpful. You got to be posting videos about this." So that's how I started creating content.
And even then when I was doing it, I was in my PhD fully still on that journey of I was studying drug addiction. And so I just didn't like it was never trying to be a content creator. And so with that being said though, the reason I was creating content was because I genuinely wanted to share the things that helped me that were I was excited to share and say. And I found that on this journey of creating content, I remember when I first started out, someone asked me, "How are you going to monetize that?"
And I had to take a break because it shifted me into a different state where I was doing it for some outside pressure or reason and it took all the joy out of it. And I've noticed when the joy is removed from my work, my work doesn't perform nearly the same. And so for me, when it comes to creating content, I I create content when I'm excited about an idea. when I'm excited about sharing things and as long as I keep my energy right and I'm filling up my own cup and taking care of myself, regulating my nervous system, the ideas will continue flowing and I'll keep having content to specifically consistently put out there.
>> But that's sort of, you know, on this kind of idea of, you know, harmonious passion versus obsessive passion and being driven by love or by fear. I have found that every single time I shift into being driven by fear, like something goes wrong. And I don't know that could be a limiting belief that I have that I'm you know confirming that over and over again but it just doesn't really hit the same and people do feel that people feel the state of your nervous system right like our when you are in communication with someone your brain waves synchronize and people can I mean in person we can feel people's nervous systems a lot more but I mean when you even my like my fiance's sister laughs at me because when I am editing my videos I'm like like and if people are only listening and not watching the camera. I'm I literally am making these facial expressions like I'm mirroring my own facial expressions in my video and she always laughs at me for it, but it's like yeah, I don't know. My brain mirrors myself. And I know that happens for other people and I see comments too.
People like, oh, like your eyebrows are like making me feel something. But >> I get that, too. So, it's fair.
>> Someone actually commented on my video recently and added you and said that we had similar eyebrow expressions.
>> You're part Lebanese, right? So that's where it comes from. Yeah. Lebanese also.
>> So funny because I was like, well, little did they know, we're going to be in the same room like next week.
>> Eyebrows to the powerup, too.
>> But yeah, and so just to that point, I wanted to make that I've absolutely shared that experience and there is kind of research to back that up that 100% when you're being driven by love, you perform better, right? When your energy is different, better things happen.
You're more open to opportunity. And when you are on this path of desperation or you're desperately wanting something and you're gripping and holding it untight, like something that I say is you can't receive from in a you can't receive in a hand that's clenched shut.
>> And so, you know, obviously we discussed the neuroscience of that and you get that tunnel vision, the desperate um the cortisol increase, your nervous system's disregulated. And when your nervous system is disregulated, your amydala starts being overactive and the amydala is the fear center of the brain. And now your amydala is now scanning your reality for potential threats to keep you safe. So you can say that you're walking into this room, right? And let's say you're walking into a room to network with people and meet people or whatever it is, but you're super anxious and stressed. Well, now your brain might be scanning for potential threats like, "Oh, that person might, you know, say something to harm me or whatever the case may be." And so your brain literally constructs reality differently when you're in that state as well. And so that's kind of one of the things that you touched on. I mean, from the habit formation sort of perspective, which was the first thing that you kind of asked about, um, in my book, actually, it's currently going through editing right now, so who knows how this will hold up, but I tell the story of for me, um, I actually used to be addicted to nicotine. So, I very much started vaping when I was, I don't know, 16 or something, very young. And everyone was doing it. Like, it was just being handed out. Like, literally, my friend gave it to me for free. So, it was just one of those things. But on this journey, like I never cared to quit. Like I never cared to. There was all this, you know, it's bad for your lungs, it's bad for you, whatever. Never cared to quit vaping nicotine. It just wasn't like something that I cared about. I was like, I'm fine. I'm young. Um, but actually when I started to dive into this, you know, work of becoming the version of you that has it and understanding that manifestation isn't necessarily about changing what's outside of you. It's changing what's inside of you so that you can become a match for it and actually create a brain and an internal state that can perceive it. And so now I was like, "Okay, well the version of me and I I kind of always knew this like the version of me who is at the level that I want to be at, she just didn't have that attachment to nicotine." Like she just wasn't addicted to vaping. Like I just knew that the best version of me, the version of me who had it all at live my dream come true. She didn't have that. And I knew as long as I had this bad habit that, you know, the version of me who has it all doesn't have, then there's a gap between me and the version of me who has it all. And as long as there's a gap, then there's going to be a gap between that life that I want to live. And so that was the reason actually that I decided, okay, like I actually do want to quit now. That was the motivation because I didn't have motivation before. And so the first thing and this was something that sort of really sat with I sat with when I was in my PhD studying it as well because I was investigating drug treatments to prevent relapse and kind of stopped resonating with that so much because I realized and know intuitively that you have to want to stop. If you don't want to then why would you? Like there has to be some sort of reason for why you want to. Otherwise, you know, everyone around you can be telling you it's not good.
But if you don't have some sort of internal desire to then I mean it's you're you're just not go you're not going to.
And so that was my desire right I was like okay like I need to become the version of me who has it and that version of me doesn't do this. After that I did a number of different things just understanding how the brain works.
I mean, so identifying like that identity shifting really was that core thing that really drove me. But then it got to exactly what you were saying like replacement and actually something specific that I did early on was a sort of form of aversive therapy which they do in studies and things like that with animals like pairing a shock with you know a behavior to get them to not do it. So I I kind of unknowingly was doing this sort of intuitively but I was training my brain to find vaping absolutely disgusting. Yeah. And so every time well I would create space right so when we have a habit like any any habit not just vaping but any sort of habit that we have it's a habit is a stimulus response relationship. So what that means is the stimulus could be a cue. It's a cue in our environment.
Maybe something that we see something that we feel within us. Maybe it's stress or you know we're around certain people in a certain environment. There can be all sorts of different cues but like a a habit be a habit habitual behavior is driven by first a Q right and then your brain learns to tie that Q with a response and then over time the response becomes very automatic to that Q. And so for me it was you know stress or even like doing work and focusing like studying locking in caffeine um and different things like that. And so the first thing that you really have to do is create space between, you know, the cue or the stimulus and the response.
And the way that I would do that is I would actually just I would keep the vape on me, but just out of reach so to kind of create space between the craving or the queue and the initial response.
And yeah, you could have done it cold turkey, but that wouldn't have allowed me to train my brain to think it was disgusting. Um, and also just from, you know, my own personal experience was that I would be anxious without it. Like I would be anxious like I was addicted.
So I would be anxious if I didn't have it on me and that drove craving even further and that's not good. So um that's what I did. And then every time I would give into the craving, right? So I created space and that helped. Sometimes I would have a craving and I could just take a deep breath because there was space and I could, you know, just take a deep breath, take a sip of water maybe and just move on. Um, but then there were some times where I would give into that craving. And but when I did that, I would really sit with how disgusting I felt after I would do it. And over time, every time I would have a craving, it would be like, "No, it makes you feel disgusting." That became my automatic um response. And not the, "Oh, yeah, I want that." And that was really helpful because when I finally did throw it away, I still did experience those cravings in in maybe rarer moments further separated by space but and time.
But when I would have those moments, I could remember, oh no, that thing makes you feel disgusting and that and that would kind of allow me to sit back. Um, but also, right, like like aversive therapy, right? But but then replacing as well, like what behavior am I going to do, right? Like I replace it with a deep breath. And so replacing the behavior with something else because um a habit is also a neural representation, right? It's a pathway in the brain and you can't at least we're not like Men in Black where we can't just zap the pathway and all of a sudden we just it deletes from our brain. Um it's still there. And so if you can replace the behavior with something else, um then you can your brain can sort of learn, okay, this is our new immediate response. Um and then yeah, and making it harder to do, right? So that was the first thing that I did was I would create space between me and the vape.
I'd put it under the car seat is why I keep referring to like down here. I'd be like driving and I'd put it under the passenger seat. Um but yeah, and so making it harder to do, right? And that's for bad habits. But then there's also like you can use all this information to create new habits as well. Like you can make new habits easier to do. How can you put it right in front of your face so that you don't forget and that it becomes new, right?
You can also habit stack. So rather than like replacing a bad habit, like how can you attach this new thing? Like I remember when I wanted to start um meditating for me, I started doing it just right after exercise in the morning. And I always found that it's way easier to meditate after I've moved my body. Like I've always just found that that's how it feels for me. And then, you know, that's how they do it in yoga. So that's that's that's how that's how it works best for me. And I find every every time I have a client that comes to me like, "Oh, I can't meditate." I'm like, "Try it after you exercise. It's way easier." And then they're like, "Whoa, it was a whole different whole different world." Um, and so yeah, I find it way easier to do that. And so it just happens to be that that's the way that I stacked my habits as well. And now it's to the point that when I exercise in the morning, if I don't meditate after, it feels wrong.
Like it feels like something's missing here. So stacking your habits, kind of making them super easy, make them smack smack you in the face. And then also reward yourself, right? So for the bad habit, I literally punished myself by sitting with how disgusting I felt. Um, but for the good habits, um, like how can you reward yourself for doing those things? How can you? Like I always say, your dog doesn't learn to sit for free, you got to give him a treat. So if you want your brain to learn to do new behaviors, give yourself a treat. And treats boost dopamine. Dopamine drives neuroplasticity. It drives learning. We learn better when we are happy and enjoy and rewarding ourselves. So rewarding yourself for doing the things that you say that you're going to do, that you want to do, for doing the habit. Um that's a great way to kind of drive habit formation as well.
>> Yeah, that's No, that's all great. I think when it comes to habit change or when we were speaking about the things that we desire in life, a lot of us have this like mindbody separation when ina in in essence like our neurology is not just located in our skull, right? And so when you're speaking about the place we want things from in life, uh whether it's the the changing of of the different habits where we want to create something that is a bit more of a generative drive and in what we want to create in life.
I think about how often our uh our plan to get what we want is always informed by past history and information and stimulus we've accumulated in our life in our surroundings program through culture and the education system and that is going to inform us to how and when we think something is going to happen and I love when you flip it on its head and you focus more on the why you want what you want that harmonious drive and passion And uh come coming from that place of regulation. Not only is it I find more of an effective way to actually get what you want, it's also just how you would want to live your life. If you're always in this the sympathetic state of fight and flight or freeze, >> uh it's just not an enjoyable way to be existing.
>> Yeah, there's actually that reminded me of the other thing that you had asked which you had mentioned. We don't really want the things that we want. We actually want the feeling that we believe the things that we want are going to bring us. And this is something that I live by. And I also h all of my students that I coach, and this actually happened to me maybe a couple weeks ago when I was in Dallas for Easter, I was sitting there doing my thing where I was stressed that the goal wasn't happening fast enough. I was like, why isn't it happening on my timeline? And it made me, you know, stressed and anxious because that's what it does. And then I was doing my morning pages as I do. I had gone and did my workout and I was sitting on a park bench next to a tree just journaling my morning pages and I was like, "Okay, well, if what like this thing that I want, this goal that I have, what what is the feeling that I believe that this goal is going to bring me?" Because that's like what I'm really after is the feeling. And I identified that feeling is, you know, I want to feel like I'm growing. I want to feel like I'm expanding. I want to feel confident. And I want to feel successful. like that's how I want to feel. And I was like, okay. And I have a sort of process for this because yes, I mean, living in the feeling state of your desires or living in the feeling state that you desire is really what it is. Um, it it absolutely makes your life more enjoyable and that's the whole point because if life were about the destination, it' be called death. So, we're supposed to be enjoying the process. Uh, but also I've found that it absolutely brings re more reasons to feel that way. And so, I was like, okay.
And I have kind of a twopart process for this. Like the first step is okay, what do you want? I was very clear on that.
And then the second step was like, okay, what are the feelings that I actually believe the things that I want are going to bring me? And I wrote down those feelings. And then >> what were some of those?
>> That's what I just mentioned. So like feeling like I'm growing.
>> To me, like I have like some top wants, needs, values in life. And one of them is joy, right? That I mentioned. And the other one is feeling like growth. Like to me like feeling like I'm growing is a huge kind of value that I have in in any way, shape or form. Not just, you know, in a like in a physical sense, but also in like a spiritual sense or a mental or, you know, whatever physical sense.
And so, um, yeah, I wanted to feel like I was growing in some way, you know, like bettering myself, bettering my life, the world, whatever, making an impact. Um, I wanted to feel like how is this thing that how is the goal going to make me feel? It's going to make me feel more successful. it's going to make me feel uh more confident in myself and it's going to make me feel like I'm growing, like I'm like I'm on the right path. And I was like, well, okay, I've identified that. Okay, the last step here is a kind of a two-parter. So, part step three is a two-part. The first part is what are all the reasons you already have to feel that way? And most of the time, we have so many reasons to feel that way right now. And I literally just went on this list of all the reasons why I already had to feel like I'm growing.
Like I'm like m you're going on know thyself podcast in like two weeks. Like what do you mean? Like you are growing.
Like what do you mean you're going doing these new opportunities? Um you're you're starting a YouTube channel. Like you're doing YouTube. You just finished writing a book. Like what are you talking about? Like you have all these reasons to feel like you are growing and to feel confident and just literally I had a someone that I coached once who printed out her resume and put it on her bathroom mirror to do this to activate confidence to activate the feelings that she desired. And so there's no right or wrong way to do this, but go on I just went on a tangent list of all the reasons I already had to feel that way, right? Um and and then you know that's kind of the first part and that's literally all I did that day a couple weeks ago. But there is a second part to this which you know some people will be like well I don't have any reasons to feel that way right now. Um and the sec and that's where where the second part of step three comes in where it's like okay well what are some things that you can do right now that you have complete control over that will bring you that feeling. And so for me completing a workout brings me that feeling.
Meditating like doing a meditation brings me that feeling. It always tunes me back into myself and reminds me of like the spirit angel dolphin alien that I am and it always, you know, it always reminds me of that and then I'm always just like, oh yeah, like this is fine.
And so, um, this different thing, right?
So, like I have a repertoire of things that I know bring me those feelings that I'm after. And maybe that they might not come straight off top of your head.
Maybe sitting with that question will, you know, eventually bring up things.
But literally within 2 hours, I get a call from someone on my team who's like, "This amazing opportunity just came in."
Like it and it was something that I had been kind of just super in a detached way. I'm like, "Oh, that's on its way."
Just like every once in like, "Oh, that that's on its way. It's coming. I don't know when, but it's coming." And I just trusted it fully. And I just would honestly say it as a joke. Like I wasn't even really like trying to manifest it.
I would just say it as a joke. And literally I get a call right after doing this exercise of activating the feeling states of my desires. And maybe that wasn't the specific goal, right, that I was sitting there being like, why isn't this happening? Um, but it wasn't the specific goal that I had in my head, but it was something that made me feel all of those feelings that I was after. And I feel like that's another really great example of and it just proves like we don't necessarily want the things we want. like we really do just want things to make us feel the way that we want to feel. Um, and so being open to that, like being open to alternate paths, alternate opportunities, different ways that something can help you feel that way. And immediately after that happened, I was just like, "Wow, I just did that activity and it already came."
One aspect that's interesting here is how when you start to examine the things that you say you want and the feelings behind them, you you examine how much your sense of worth is tied up into all the stories around it. I know especially for people that are building the world and achieve and are, you know, want a successful life, there can be a different place when it's coming from like this. There's a diff there's a completely different energy when you are building for the love of something and because it's contributing to a greater whole versus you're so solopyistically naval gazily like focused on what just you want for you for your own betterment.
And so I'm curious what your thoughts are on how our like our worthiness is tied to all these stories we have and how we can go from shifting our desires to just serve self to serve a greater whole and how actually in my experience when you find that thing that both you love and are your gifts and the world needs like life puts fuel on the fire for that. And I'm sure you've experienced that with your own social media journey and your business. Like when you find when you find that intersection, uh it's a big amplifier.
>> Absolutely. I you know I made a joke wasn't really a joke about being like a dolphin alien spirit.
Yeah.
>> Spirit dolphin alien.
>> Yeah. Angel.
But um I actually it's it's I when I was s sort of beginning on my journey and you know learning about star seeds and all of that is where I kind of I actually just a little context there I have always my entire life like even when I was a little kid and we would see dolphins at like SeaWorld I like I want to be a dolphin like I've always said that and I um I I've always just like said I wanted to be one and then got a little older and then I was just like wow I love them. like I've been obsessed with them and and then you know my one friend that she was that way with whales came to me one time after a dream that she had had and she was like I think we're from the star seed planet Mntaka and it's a water planet and there's dolphin and and whale like species. So ever since then I'm like yeah I'm a dolphin angel alien and that's just like something that I say. Uh, but it just resonates with me and actually it's really funny cuz when I first like the first night I had ever hung out with my fiance, I was telling him this and how I'm a dolphin and right after that like we were standing in Tampa Bay overlooking the water and right as I was telling him I'm a dolphin, a dolphin like came out and that's how I knew that it was just like okay yeah like it's meant to be him because like the universe wanted to show him that I was real.
So that was for me and it's been there's actually been a lot of actor.
>> Yeah, there's been a lot of situations like that too. Like I remember when I first moved to Miami, I was walking down it was another time in my life where I was just in such a huge period of uncertainty and I was walking down a sidewalk literally just talking to my angels like like hey guys like uh just you know talking to them and I was and actually something that I had said in the beginning was I don't need any sign or proof that you're there like I know that you're there and like right after I said that dolphin started jumping and so for me it's just such a a huge thing in my life but um the reason I bring that up is because after that and after having these sort of realizations I I remember very soon after that like kind of understanding my quote unquote purpose and something that I always say is your purpose in life is you like your purpose isn't something that you find that's outside of you like because we came to this planet to be the unique expression of life that we are and so kind of like what you were just mentioning where if you can find that kind of groove or that spot where you are able to express your genius and your gifts and what really lights you up that you love and also it kind of is what people need, right? And and for me, I kind of had this moment where I realized that I really had this power to impact people in a positive way. And this dream was born within me that I wanted to elevate the vibration of the planet. And you know, through whatever way, shape or form that is like just help others and make a positive impact on the world and make the world a better place. And and you know, it's sort of like that temperature thing that you were describing earlier where we can only go as low and as high as our identity will hold us. we as we as a society have this societal identity that it's kind of like a team where a team is only as strong as its weakest link. And so I was like I want to help turn up the temperature on the entire world so that as a collective we can all you know be on an even I think there's one day where maybe you know we have these access to different powers we didn't even know was possible because everybody's on a higher level.
And so anyway, that's just a personal thing, but um but yeah, and so that really was the driver for me and it always has been the driver for me. And that's why when certain times, like even when I first started my business with my business partner, I would make it a point to be like, yes, like I love like like money's cool, like money's fun, like you can do great things, but I don't want that to be the driver because as soon as that becomes the driving force of what we're doing, it takes the joy out of it for me because that's not what this is about.
like it's about positively impacting people and so uh but so yeah I have definitely experienced that personally where if I am if I'm remembering my why which is the reason why I'm doing this on that greater level in the greater scheme of things it absolutely makes the kind of path more enjoyable but but it also boosts resilience as well right it's kind of going back to like we're all we all face setbacks like we all face challenges in life but when you're doing it for a of greater reason like that's outside of you. It's it like for me the give up is never an option. Like it's never oh should I stop should I never like I faced so many things and never once through my mind does it go maybe I should just stop doing this like never because it's what I love and I know that it's making a positive impact on people and so why would I ever stop doing that even though selfishly it doesn't feel good right now. Um, I know that there is a greater reason for this, but I think it also kind of circles back to what I was mentioning earlier about the different types of passion. Um, because there is that difference between harmonious passion and obsessive passion. It's not just about love and fear. It's also about your identity. Um, whenever you are being driven by love, by joy, by impact, whatever it is, that harmonious passion is actually kind of described by it being a part of who you are, but it's not the entire kind of whole of who you are. And that obsessive nature is when it becomes the entire sense of who you are, like your whole identity. And I think that when you're driven by a goal that's bigger than you, then it's not all of who you are, right?
And like I always hold this inner kind of knowing of I'm something a lot greater than, you know, just even this human body. And now I'm able to be driven by, you know, and know that these goals that I have and and this, you know, even this mission that I'm doing is just only a fraction of who I really am and not the whole sense of who I am.
And as soon as it becomes this is my entire identity and it's entangled in my work, right? That's when it becomes very painful. Like honestly this becomes very painful and there be there starts to be a lot of pressure and then like you said your self-worth starts to come into play where your sense of worthiness completely resides on performance. Um whereas if you have this you know innate kind of you know drive and but also this innate sense of you know that you're something else you're something bigger than just your goals or your work then you can retain this sense of worthiness like I know that if my content is completely flopping like I'm still great because I have all these other things that I'm doing. Um maybe not even just that I'm doing but because I am that divine life force energy in a human body right like even if I did absolutely nothing like I still am that. And so it's kind of it's kind of like that when when you have this sort of, you know, when you're driven by something that's bigger than you, you're able to hold that bigger than you picture as you move versus if it's all about what you're doing, then it can become a lot more painful than when because it's who you are when what you're doing isn't working.
>> Yeah, that's I think uh that's so great. There's like a lot of compassion that needs to be brought in I think for people that go on this journey and especially I mean I know where I grew up. I'm sure where you grew up starting to like explore these ideas and empower yourself to go against the grain from what everyone else is kind of assuming and is has been living by is not always the easiest thing. Like you're going to have a lot of friend groups and peers and family members who know you as your old self.
And if you're going to stretch into a new version of you, that is going to also correspond to the death of an older version of you. And that is can be a painful process.
>> And uh it's I think it just breathes in some space to like like this is the journey. this is what we're here to be doing, you know, and it's a lifelong uh process. And when you grow, there's like when you get further, you see further. There's always more ways to expand and grow and contribute. And uh and so I think that reminder of purpose not being what you do but who you are is is uh something we all need to hear more and more now because we're fed by this like consumerist capitalist society that your worth really is and how much output you have, how much performance you have, the amount of money you make, the views you have. And I think there's so much impact that comes from changing one person's life deeply. you know, there's a it's noble to be able to like we want to turn up the heat on the planet. You know, we both wanna want to build and scale and support a lot of people. Um, and it is no small feat to be the mother of one children who attends and attunes to that child fully. And um, I uh, and so it's it's uh, yeah, it's I enjoyed the reflections you gave there. I feel like that's all those are all really important reminders. And um, yeah. Yeah.
Is there any else anything else that comes up in regards to the nervous system? When you're studying the nervous system, the entic nervous system. I think in this day and age, the greatest flex is like a well- reggulated nervous system. Like that's real success in this day and age when there's so many opportunities to become disregulated.
Uh, and then maybe you could share some like practical tools and tips that you found that uh allow your biology to operate how it's meant to and not just how it's been hijacked by a hyper stimulated culture.
>> Yeah. I think just on like from the entic nervous system standpoint, but also nervous system regulation in general, I think maybe one thing that I hadn't said yet was is is the power of intuition, which maybe we have kind of talked about a little bit, but um like studies have actually shown that your intuition is less accurate, right? When you're disregulated, which maybe I mentioned before, but we haven't necessarily talked about like okay, like how how do we regulate our nervous systems? like how do we and just kind of to tap into also the point that you made about your environment and how it isn't the easiest thing and to give yourself grace and just to really mirror that one more time because I have to say that so often to the people that I work with is just like give yourself some grace like be kind to yourself treat yourself like you would your own best friend and on the note of nervous system regulation I think that can be one of the most regulating things imagine you were walking around with someone next to you 24/7 always telling you that you weren't doing well enough or you weren't doing enough or you know you should be doing this or you should have gotten up earlier or you should it's like you would feel constantly braced. You would feel constantly like stressed and a lot of people walk around with that person inside of them talking to themselves that way and that is so disregulating. I think we we you know our own thoughts can be just like our own the way we're treating ourselves can be just making it that much worse and it makes it so much more important that we do need to be our own sort of best friend and in the beginning of my journey like and even now at times like okay like if my best friend were to call me up and tell me about this right now what would I say to her like what would I say to her and you would usually give them grace show them understanding and validation maybe be like hey no maybe you should have done it this way but there's no point in beating yourself up now, like just go do it different next time. Like that's that's the that's the journey. Um and just that's the way we talk to our friends, right? Like we don't beat them up and tell them, "Oh no, I can't believe you did that." Like that's just not how we treat our friends. And so that isn't how we should treat ourselves either. And so just on that note of kind of regulating our nervous systems, like it really is so important. Like that's one of the most important things that we can do is to treat ourselves like our own best friends. And it might be kind of a I don't know a cliche at this point, but just really truly love ourselves. And um I didn't used to, you know, love myself in that sense, but just literally the other day I was driving in my car and I looked at my arm and I was like, "Wow, I love my arm hairs." And it was so random, but it was just one of those moments of like, "Wow, like the work is so real because I'm finding the tiniest little thing that maybe I would have hated or criticized about myself and I'm just like, "Wow, like that's so cool."
Um, and so that's kind of on one note. I think maybe one other thing that we hadn't quite touched on, especially in the kind of realm of nervous system regulation, is is discipline and how discipline really is a form of nervous system regulation. And I know a lot of people in maybe the spiritual side of things don't necessarily want to hear that. Um, but discipline is a is showing is creating a sense of safety inside of yourself.
discipline creates a sense of safety inside of yourself where you know let's say you had a friend that was always coming up to you and telling you they were going to do something and they never did it right what would you like you wouldn't really be able to trust their word what like what would you trust their actions or their words like you you would trust their actions and so they're they're always telling you one thing and maybe you don't now you don't trust them and now you're around a group of people like that where your head is going to be kind of on a swivel like making sure you know you're good and so what happens is when you're always telling yourself you're going to do something and then you never do it or you set your you set these goals and you never work work on them or you say you're going to be consistent and you're not. Well, now your brain is on a swivel with you. Like your brain doesn't trust you. And so and that that lack of selfrust that's disregulating, right?
And and you know, life like you said in this over stimulated world is by nature disregulating. There is so much going on. But if you can have a super strong sense of selfrust and trusting and knowing that you got you in any moment, like I got me, like we're good. Like I'm not trying to say that nothing bad is ever going to happen, but I trust that if something does happen, I will be okay. Like I can make it through. And that's really regulating to be able to trust yourself in that way. So, and trust and selfrust is built through, you know, showing up for yourself and following through on your word and doing the things that you say that you're going to do and consistency, right?
Because, um, again, bringing kind of making the relationship analogy, if somebody wasn't consistent, if you're trying to develop a relationship with someone and they text you every once in a while and they're not consistent, they don't show up consistently for you, you're not really going to feel like, I don't know about like safe with that person, but you're not going to feel like they're reliable, right? Um and and that kind of happens, right? Like the brain the predictive processing like the brain loves predictability. The brain loves predictability. That feels safe to us. That's why we a lot of times we'd we'd rather stay in the kind of like uncomfortable, you know, predictable pain rather than move out into the unknown even when the unknown could allow us to grow into a better version of ourselves. A lot of people will stay stuck where they are because the predictable feels better even if it isn't necessarily what we want. And so the brain loves predictability. And so creating that predictability for ourselves and our brains like in our own nervous systems that's regulating as well. And so and a lot of people hear discipline and they think rigidity and structure and look I I have ADHD like I I I like immediately I'm like I don't know about that. I'm not like a super structured person but I also know that if I have zero structure I'm a cookie crumbled on the floor. like I am all over the place and I am falling apart. I know for a fact that when I am on my morning routine and I do my three morning M's, which are my three M's, which I think routine is so important.
It's important for identity stabilization, right? So, we say we want to be someone. The brain doesn't just listen to our thoughts or our affirmations. It listens to who we're being, right? Listens to our actions.
And so, if you're wanting to level up your identity, regulate your nervous system, having systems in place is so important. And especially in this day and age, right, with over stimulation and like lack of focus and the inability to focus, like we're we're losing our ability to focus on one thing for a prolonged period of time.
>> And this is actually something that I had heard you briefly mention on a podcast episode and you didn't discuss it at all. And you said something and immediately in my head I was like, oh, like there's there's neuroscience behind that. I know. And you guys didn't talk about it, but um you had said something like like the feeling of having that singleointed focus is inherently enjoyable. And in my mind, I'm like, yeah, it is like it feels so good, right? And it's sort of kind of flow as well. When we get into flow and our sense of self kind of dissolves and we become one with the task we're doing, we we truly reach that state of being fully immersed and focused on one thing, whether through, you know, an activity or work or in meditation. Like that inherently feels good. And I was like, okay, like from an evolutionary standpoint, like looking into the science, like we evolved for that to feel good because it benefits us to be able to focus on something for a prolonged period of time. Like it benefits our survival. It benefits our ability to grow and evolve as a species to be able to focus. And so with with social media and all of these things kind of training our brains for distraction is really what's happening.
We are losing the ability to have the single pointed focus. Not only are we losing our ability to, you know, focus and be productive and do what we want to do, but we're also losing something that is inherently pleasurable to us. And now we're seeing this rise in people with anxiety and depression and, you know, mental like poorer mental health. And I can't help but think that these two things would also be connected that we're losing something that is inherently pleasurable to us and we're not tapping into that.
Um, and now we're feeling worse, right?
And there are of course other reasons for why people are feeling worse, but that could also be a factor at play, which is why I'm like, you know, when we're talking about focus, these systems are so important. And so systems are important for identity stabilization.
They're important for nervous system regulation. They're also important for getting your nervous system into a state where you can focus because your prefrontal cortex, which is the boss, the CEO of your brain, it's really important for focus and being able to, you know, be the CEO of your life. But the thing is is that when your nervous system is disregulated or you're anxious or you're stressed, activity in the prefrontal cortex turns down. Like we lose our capacity to be the CEO of our lives. And so this is where being, you know, having systems in place, having structure, regulating our nervous system is not only regulating but puts our nervous system into a state where we are actually better able to focus. So this why I always say like focus is not just a productivity skill. It is a state. It is a nervous system state. And systems are the way you do that. And so I'll just describe my three M's because I think it'll kind of summarize everything we've talked about into one.
>> M's three M's.
>> Yeah. With that. Yeah. Um okay. So the first is um the first thing and you don't have to do it in any particular order by the way for anyone listening.
This is not like there's no right or wrong way to do this. But the first is mindfulness.
Um and I I'll do it in the order that I do it. So the first is movement. So movement is the first M. Getting up every morning and moving your body in some way, shape or form. I like to call it movement because it doesn't have to be a workout or exercise. It can be as simple as stretching. I remember when I was in my PhD and I had to be in lab super early. was three morning sun salutations. Like that's what I could get in. So that's what I would do. And it's really important not only for waking up your body, right? Getting the blood flowing, oxygenating your brain.
But also every single night as you sleep, your brain dumps a whole bunch of waste down into your neck through the lymphatic system. And if you don't move your body, it just sits there. And they've actually shown like longterm that can lead to cognitive decline with age. So, um, so yeah, and they've actually shown in in this one research, I think it's a pre-clinical trial, where if they drained that people actually were able to get back a lot of their memories and ability to think flexibly and all that, but anyway, >> in Alzheimer's, dementia patients, right?
>> Yes. Yeah. So, um, so anyway, it's really important for lots of different reasons to move your body. So, that's the first M. And then, you know, especially I again as someone with ADHD, but even not, you kind of just movement, you know, boosts dopamine, it boosts endorphins, gets you feeling good on the endockinabonoid system, right? Like these indogenous canabonoids that we got flowing through us. Um, and so it's really good for setting your mood, setting your energy, getting the motivation, all that. And then after that, I kind of already mentioned I go into mindfulness. And for me, that looks like meditation. It doesn't have to be that. I mean, there are plenty of different ways to do it. Um, and then the third M is mindset. And I've been asked before, what's the difference between mindfulness and mindset? Um, I kind of make this analogy of like mindfulness is like raking the soil and mindset is like planting the seeds. So mindfulness is more like quieting the mind, going within, kind of just being mindful. can be breath work, meditation, but then mindset is okay. That's a beautiful opportunity to do maybe a gratitude practice or like we were mentioning in the beginning of this conversation, training your perception and taking that moment to, you know, like what do I want to see? I remember there was one time in my life where I was getting really annoyed with my one friend and I was like, you know what, no, I want to see more of the good in them. Like I know they're a great person. I was just going through one of those phases where I was just getting annoyed with what they were doing and I was like, but I I know I love them so I want to see more of the good. like it'll be beneficial to our relationship. And um I was like, okay, but I can't just say I want to see more of the good. Like I need to look for more of the good in them. And so I took a moment to write down a list of all the amazing things about them. And so and so expecting, you know, we can say we want certain things like we want to be more grateful. We want to experience more blessings. We want to experience more good in life.
But you got to train your brain to see that, right? Like through neuroplasticity, you can activate those pathways in your brain. And now when you're moving through the rest of your day, your brain can actively be filtering for those things. And so mindset is a beautiful place to do that.
It's a beautiful place to do affirmations or, you know, set intentions for the day. I'm a big fan of intention setting. It's something that I have always done. Even before I really knew what I was doing, I remember when I was in my PhD and I was struggling to focus in my two-hour neuroscience lectures, I kind of unlocked this like, let me see if I can use the doorway effect, which I don't know if you've heard of the doorway effect before, but um the doorway effect, and it's actually connects something that I studied when I was in undergrad. I studied learning, memory, and the perception of time, which was very interesting. Um but kind of you know one of the foundational things in that lab was just that you know when you shift environments your brain shifts modes and that shifts like like that's why if you are you know basically kind of the research project I like we actually won awards for this when I presented it. It was cool but um for example if you are walking down a street and you see like a dog you know at point A and then like a person at point B. If you're walking down a street and nothing happens and then I ask you like, "How far apart in time did you see those things?" You might tell me, "Uh, maybe about five minutes." But if I if you walk down a street and I put a whole bunch of different landmarks in between point A and point B, you're now going to tell me that maybe it was like an hour in between and nothing changed. Like the actual amount of time between point A and B doesn't change. It's the different contexts and environments between that changed. That's why if you're traveling all day, the day feels longer because you changed environments so many different times. So anyway, um I what I kind of took from that was like, all right, when I change environments, my brain shifts mode. So what I would do when I would walk through the door to class is I'd be like, okay, my brain is shifting into focus mode. Like I'm I'm actually going to be able to focus and learn and remember what I am walking into this class to do. And and that would actually make a difference. And so that's kind of where I unlocked sort of priming or intention setting the first time. Um, and so I just wanted to kind of say that because yeah, you can set intentions in the morning, but it's something that I also like to do kind of throughout the day before I go into something. And um, >> yeah, so I think I think you know systems and that's a good place to wrap it wrap it all up.
>> What do you think about those feeling states that get left in a room? Cuz I agree when you walk through a doorway and like for example, I feel like this room because I've done so many of these conversations, it starts to build a certain atmosphere and energy. Same thing with my meditation room or my workout area or my office or my living room. Like they all have different energies to them. And I've heard you speak to is it I don't know just like the neurochemical states that are left over in a room that you can feel.
>> Yeah. Uh chemo signals.
>> Che signals.
>> So there are many reasons for what you're saying. Um because you walk into a room like again associative learning is a huge way that we learn things. We make the brain is not only a prediction machine. And it's also an association machine. So it loves to make connections between things. It we're able to learn something that we can connect to something we already know way better than something that we've never heard before or have no context. So you know your brain has a ton of prior associations with, for example, your meditation room. And I have a playlist and this isn't just rooms, right? Like I have a music playlist that I think my chemistry TA's sophomore year of college like was sending out everybody. And now I've added like hours of music to it.
But I've been listening to it for years and years and years now. And I only ever listen to it when I am doing deep work.
And now when I do deep work and and I not not only when I do deep work, but now when I put that playlist on, my brain immediately just goes into super focus mode because my brain has just so many prior associations of that. Like that is what that playlist is, right?
And so for you like for example your meditation room, your brain has learned this is where we drop in. And so now it's be it probably is just way easier now over time because that's the energy of it, right? And that's what it feels like. Um but then for something like this room for example where you're having other people come in and out.
Yeah. So they've actually shown they did a study where they had people in a room watch like a scary or stressful movie and then they had them leave and they had a new group of people walk in and report how they felt. And they also did this with like a happy movie too. Um, and what they found was that after walking into a room of where they had just previously watched this scary movie, um, people reported feeling like stressed or anxious. Um, and that's because people, we actually sort of leak chemical signals into the air through our sweat, our breath. Um, and these don't just affect the way that we feel, they actually affect our performance as well. Um there was a study with dentists and this wasn't like operating on real people but they had them do sort of you know simulated dental tasks and what they found was and they had them I think I can't remember exactly what it was it might have been like a t-shirt or something I don't remember exactly what they did um how they gave them these chemo signals but they essentially had these dentists they exposed them to stress chemo signals or not and then they went and did these tasks and the dentists that were exposed to the stress chemo signals performed performed worse on the task and they were not even consciously aware that they had even you know smelled any chemo signals. So yes, they can make us feel differently but also they can be entirely subconscious and be affecting how we move our perception, our behavior, our performance without us even realizing it.
>> Yeah, I know. It's fascinating. There's so there's so much exciting and interesting studies out there that we don't know and there's still so much yet to be discovered about human potential that I'm sure we'll dive into more in later conversations. And yeah, it's it's fun. I I uh I loved all of those M and the practical, you know, practices of we live in one of the most individualistic times and cultures that I've ever lived that corresponds to levels of anxiety and loneliness that we've never seen before at unprecedented levels. And it's largely because we're living in a way that is against anthropologically how we evolved to, right? And so we used to have movement as such a foundational aspect of the way we move through life.
And now we live in the most sedentary culture ever. And so it's no wonder that the all of the chemical cascades that would come from going on walks in nature that were natural to us no longer happening.
We're not getting those benefits. Um and there's that mental stagnation.
Likewise, especially with mindfulness, we would have so much time in silence to process emotionally that we no longer have anymore. uh because we're always hit with dopamine and quick uh stimulus that doesn't allow us to process what just happened in a recent conversation or things that we learned and studied.
It just kind of comes in one year and not the other. And I believe certainly with the mindset aspect as well. Like we have an incredible opportunity in our lives and within culture to plant seeds that we want to see blossom. And uh I think those practices that you shared help cultivate the environment for that seed to to come to fruition. So >> yeah, exactly. I actually on that note of processing time, I actually I've discovered this sort of meditation center 10 minutes from my house. It's beautiful. It's won awards. They're doing a whole TV show about it. I'm like, of course, >> but I I went there and I was talking to these women, this this like 85year-old woman who I would never have guessed she was over 60. It was it was incredible.
But anyway, I was talking to her about the exactly what you just said, the processing time and how we are as a culture and as also individuals just like losing that. And back in the the old days, we used to, you know, something happened, we would have all this silence and all this time to process the event. And now it's like something bad happens, you're immediately just picking up your phone and scrolling social media or whatever, and we're never processing it. And just kind of really to go into the neuroscience of that just for a second, like that becomes our programming. Then if we never allow if we never take the time to process the thing that occurred, it just becomes a part of us. If we never let it like pass through us, it just becomes a part of us. And if that's becoming a part of you, then that becomes the part of the reality that your brain is predicting and it becomes just normal. If you're never taking a moment to process and make peace with it, maybe tell a new story, then it just becomes a part of, you know, the reality that your brain is predicting. And literally, I think it was two weeks ago, I got on a coaching call. I was like, "You need more processing time." And I, this is another reason why every single morning I've been doing my morning pages, which is from The Artist Way, that book. Um, great book. Um, but yeah, the morning pages. And it's just really just a time where I sit and I just stream of consciousness dump everything out of my brain onto paper. and the amount of not only ideas that will flow through me. I mean, I'm so much more creative when I do it for sure, but also just the patterns that I can then see from a third person perspective when I am taking that time and I'm like, "Oh, this is something like I'll get into maybe not even processing mode, but I'm dumping something out of my brain and I'm just like, "Oh, hey, this is something that's sitting in me that I didn't realize was sitting inside of me and now I can take the time to process it." And I have noticed, I mean, I used to live alone, now I don't, but back when I lived alone, like I I never really was a scroll on social media type of person. So, I would just lay on the couch and listen to music and just stare up at the ceiling and just think. And I like I love that time. It's so amazing.
And I found now that I don't live alone, like it's more important to intentionally schedule that. And I think for people listening, if they're if they're, you know, they're realizing, oh, I don't really take the time to process and like take the time to process, whether it just be a walk without your phone or, you know, taking scheduling time to be bored and just stare up at the ceiling. Like yesterday, I was, you know, in Malibu and I literally just sat on this chair and just stared at these plants and just the amount of like ideas that started flowing through me and the amount of thinking and that's when I literally was like, "Huh, I wonder what the greatest predictor of success is." is now looking into like the equation for grit and all this. It's just like the things that come through when you allow yourself to just to have the time and space to process and expand. It's really incredible.
>> Yeah.
>> Well said and great notes I think wrap up on. Uh this was such a fun conversation.
>> I had a lot of fun and that was the intention, right?
>> Yeah. Yeah. Let's just have fun going into it. And I know it's interesting, I'm sure, from your end to like switch up formats. Like speaking to camera with your iPhone and having to go out to millions of people is different than a podcast, different than writing a book.
I know there's many different hats you get to wear. Uh but I love the way you showed up today and it felt like a very lively conversation. So thanks for coming and yeah, it was so good to meet you.
>> Yeah, thanks for having me on and for your kind of presence and curiosity as well. I think it's incredible what you're doing.
>> Thanks. I'm just so curious.
All right, everybody. Thanks for tuning to this episode of the Noyself podcast.
We'll leave links down below as always where you can find more of M's work.
Until next time, be well. High five. Did it
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