Happy Hour: The Secret Science of Wine

[00:00:00][music] >> Hello and welcome to this episode of Kennedy Saves the World. I want to save your summer by making sure you are appropriately celebrating the 250th anniversary of our nation's founding with some of the finest wines from the Fox News wine shop. So, if you didn't know already, on Fox Nation there's a show Wine Nation uh that takes you into the curation of these incredible USA 250 bottles uh that have been designed and crafted just for our Fox News wine shop viewers. And uh Fox Nation fans, you can go there if if you love wine, you will absolutely adore this process. And one of the winemakers is here with me, Katie Carter. Welcome to Kennedy Saves the World.

[00:00:55]>> Thank you.

[00:00:56]>> Part of the the UC system that produced the both of us in the mid >> aughts. Absolutely. Go California.

[00:01:02]>> So, did you know you wanted to study wine in college?

[00:01:05]>> I grew up in the wine wine area in Russian River Valley, Sonoma County. My dad built a wine cellar under our house.

[00:01:12]He was a vineyard manager. But, I studied biology in college. I was all about the >> How did that lead you to wine? Were you like first dissecting frogs and then you were like, "Ooh, I like grapes better."

[00:01:22]>> Oh man, you know, I went everything from the dissecting of the frogs to microbiology and organic chemistry, all the background of what do yeast and bacteria do. And those are the creatures that are making this wine. We would not have wine or beer without these little microbiological parties that are going on. So.

[00:01:42]>> Who invented wine?

[00:01:43]>> Oh, you know, nature.

[00:01:46]If we just let fruit and you know, natural sugars ferment, you know, nature's going to do its thing. We're just kind of taking notes.

[00:01:54]So, and refining it, putting some boundaries on it. So, um >> Who do you think were the first, um, beings to get drunk?

[00:02:02]>> Mhm. I mean, uh >> [laughter] [gasps] >> Uh, probably some primates back in the day and discovering little puddles of fruit that had fermented and feeling a little happy about it, you know? So >> Feeling a little dizzy.

[00:02:17]>> Yeah, exactly.

[00:02:18]>> the same time. So, you are a winemaker.

[00:02:21]You have been with Drouhin for 20 years now?

[00:02:24]>> It is 20 years.

[00:02:25]>> anniversary with that vineyard. That's incredible.

[00:02:28]>> I know. It's been a an an arc of winemaking for me along with Jean-Charles Boisset, who is the proprietor of Drouhin.

[00:02:38]>> JCB.

[00:02:38]>> JCB. Yeah, you know him.

[00:02:40]>> Yeah. Great guy.

[00:02:42]Great wines. And I want to taste what you yourself have crafted. Like, how did you pour yourself into this? What is the process? And how do you know when a wine is ready?

[00:02:54]Ready to bottle or ready to drink?

[00:02:56]>> Exactly. All of it.

[00:02:57]>> I mean, it's it's a process. It's steps from the winemaking all the way through the aging. Um, you want to taste some wine?

[00:03:04]>> Yeah. Let's try some wine.

[00:03:05]>> Let's skip right to the next one.

[00:03:07]>> Let's do this.

[00:03:08]>> [laughter] >> We're going to skip right to Cabernet Sauvignon.

[00:03:11]>> Beautiful.

[00:03:12]>> Yeah. We're going to go for >> think the best cabs are in California?

[00:03:16]>> So, I mean, Cabernet Sauvignon thrives in many areas of the world from the great chateaus in Bordeaux.

[00:03:23][clears throat] Um, there are wonderful >> But it's different than a Bordeaux, correct?

[00:03:28]>> different and that's where California >> You know, it's it's the wine growing region. It is the climate, the terroir, the soil.

[00:03:36]>> What is terroir?

[00:03:37]>> Terroir is what makes the wine. Terroir is the expression of what the earth is laying out, the soil, the climate, um, and all the interactions of that specific place. And how does that translate into what you're tasting in the glass?

[00:03:54]>> Okay.

[00:03:55]>> Um and so the climate and the soils are different in Bordeaux or in Washington state >> Mhm.

[00:04:00]>> or Oregon >> Oregon >> Mhm.

[00:04:02]>> And certainly in the Napa Valley. So this is Napa Valley Cabernet Sauvignon.

[00:04:08]>> Oh, that is so smooth. That is really that is so good.

[00:04:12]And I've said this before, I will say it again. I am not an oenophile.

[00:04:15]>> Mhm.

[00:04:15]>> I do not have a refined palate. I just know I can tell smooth from pointy. And [laughter] this is very smooth. This would go well with so many different things. And I always like to think, what do I like to cook?

[00:04:27]>> Mhm.

[00:04:27]>> Um because I always make meals within 20 minutes. Like I cannot I do not have 3 hours. I don't have an hour for prep and then execution.

[00:04:36]It's it's all got to be like 20 minutes.

[00:04:38]And I I think, what would something like this go well with? And uh man, a couple weeks ago the Macklemore boys uh made me a 3-lb Tomahawk Ribeye. And uh this would go beautifully with that.

[00:04:53]I'm I'm sad that I can't get in a time machine and pair the two.

[00:04:57]>> Now you're talking.

[00:04:58]>> What else would it go well with?

[00:05:00]>> steak. I mean, definitely grilled meats.

[00:05:02]>> Yes.

[00:05:02]>> Um barbecue. You know, a good lasagna, too. You know, meatballs. Like, you know, >> I made a noodleless chicken lasagna a few weeks ago and it was uh it it was one of those >> Noodleless?

[00:05:13]>> It yes. It was so easy to make that I'm like, I'm making it again.

[00:05:16]>> Yes.

[00:05:17]>> Cuz you don't it was just like chicken breasts that I scored, sauce, chicken breasts, ricotta with lemon uh and fresh garlic and basil, and then mozzarella, parmesan, another layer of sauce, more mozzarella, more parmesan. Bake it with foil at 375 for 40 minutes, take the foil off 15 minutes. It was so good.

[00:05:38]>> I need your recipes. I have a 6-year-old little kid. I need to be able to cook something fast.

[00:05:42]>> Yeah, because I like you, like, I don't have time. But when you make something that is super yummy and hits a bunch of notes, you need the perfect beverage to go with it. And I would say this is perfection.

[00:05:55]>> Absolutely.

[00:05:56]You know, Napa cabs can range from being plush and that velvety texture, >> That is velvety, it tastes almost like cherry like.

[00:06:06]>> Yes. You know, I really want the fruit to sing from this and show how Napa Valley expresses those dark cherries, the cassis, the the beautiful berry fruit out of Napa Valley. But, there's oak supporting that, too. That softens the tannins, it gives it a little bit more earthy structure.

[00:06:24]>> Yeah.

[00:06:24]>> Um, but this isn't a cabin barrels. I use Excuse me?

[00:06:27]>> Do you use bourbon discarded bourbon barrels?

[00:06:29]>> No.

[00:06:29]>> [laughter] >> Okay.

[00:06:30]>> Uh, French oak and a little bit of American oak in this. So, a mixture of new barrels, so oak that is fresh and hasn't touched any alcohol. And then barrels that have been filled a couple times with wine.

[00:06:42]>> Oh, okay.

[00:06:43]>> Not.

[00:06:44]>> And when So, obviously like this tastes complete. It tastes finished. It's it's perfect. Like you would open this and you would never have any worries. If you had company over or if you were presenting it as a gift.

[00:06:56]But, when you taste something and it's not quite there, what do you do? Like is there a panic? Is it like Oh, no. Let's add some sugar.

[00:07:05]>> [laughter] >> This tastes better. Like what do you do?

[00:07:07]>> That that's not my technique, but um >> [laughter] >> You know, it depends on the wine. Um, with Cabernet Sauvignon, these these really nice rich developed ones, especially if they're coming with a lot of tannins from the vineyard, they benefit from a little bit longer time in barrel for those flavors to integrate, for the for everything to soften >> and broaden.

[00:07:29]Um, this will be in barrel for 2 years or more. And some even a little longer.

[00:07:34]>> or >> taste it >> like a souffle where you can't touch it or it will collapse?

[00:07:38]>> Oh, no. We we we taste as we go along.

[00:07:41]We monitor, we test the wine to make sure that things are stable and that things aren't getting spoiled.

[00:07:47]>> But it's not like moonshine where you can add something to it if you're missing part of the profile.

[00:07:52]>> You know what, we can make micro adjustments and it depends on what's going on. So if I'm tasting a barrel, I say, that barrel, I think it has enough oak. I think I need to, you know, take that new oak out and, you know, put it in a neutral barrel. I want to soften that oak impact. That's just one example.

[00:08:09]In this wine I think >> Time and and vessel. Those are the things that you can control post squashing of the grapes.

[00:08:17]>> of the grapes is where the magic happens and that's where all the activity and the aliveness is the most robust. It's like, maybe it's like raising a child a little, you know, from babies into schoolhood, you know, you have a little bit more a little bit more influence. Let's just say >> window of receptivity.

[00:08:35]>> Window of receptivity. I choose, you know, what the menu is, you know, and you know, where they go to school and stuff and, you know, it's like the elevage of a wine, you know. At some point it's on its own path and there's only little micro bumper adjustments in the >> you're when you're making major adjustments in the squishing period, what do you do? What are those what's an example?

[00:08:56]>> The first thing for sure is always in the vineyard. Vineyard is where everything starts. You cannot make good wine if you don't have good terroir and you don't have good fruit. So you are making a pick call. You're walking the vines, tasting the fruit, testing the sugars and the acid and just kind of getting that sense. You're getting tuned into the vintage about what are the possibilities here. You're making a pick call. You say, I want to pick on this day. That tells you what sugar are you starting with, what phenolic profile and from there the race is on.

[00:09:28]>> How narrow is the window?

[00:09:30]>> It depends on the style of wine you want to make and also what is the weather bringing you. mean, >> it is it quick to turn?

[00:09:37]Is it like >> When I make a >> gluten-free cookies where it goes from raw to overcooked within a minute?

[00:09:43]>> I mean, it depends.

[00:09:45]>> like if if you choose Wednesday >> Mhm.

[00:09:49]>> but you have to get your hair curled and set that day. So, and then by Friday morning you're like, "Oh no, I've missed the window." Is it that narrow?

[00:09:57]>> It can be if a big weather event is coming in. For example, if a huge heat wave is about to hit, I don't want that fruit to be fried, sunburned, desiccated. I might want to pick before that. That said, if the fruit's still kind of under ripe, you know, we might we might ride it out and and let it ripen more with a bit of more heat. So, you're kind of making that making that call. But, if you have very steady, even growing season like the 2023 season in Russian River Valley, you know, things were relatively cool and you know, we had a little bit more relaxed time period to make that decision.

[00:10:31]>> What is the most labor-intensive part for you personally? I mean, are you there when they're picking grapes? Are you up for like 2 days straight?

[00:10:37]>> [laughter] >> And like galoshes and a little hat?

[00:10:40]>> some picks you're definitely there and making sure they're picking the right blocks and that you're that things are going smoothly. I mean, scouting the vineyards prior to picking to make maturity assessments of the fruit. I mean, that's a lot of hiking up and down vineyards. Some vineyards are on big slopes and things like that.

[00:11:00]You know, at the end of the squishing period and the end of fermentation, red wine always ferments on the skins and so you have to physically dig out the vats.

[00:11:11]I don't always do that part. We have our our hired interns from all over the world that like to do that, but I always do a couple tanks and and get a get a sweat on.

[00:11:21]>> Thanks for the memories.

[00:11:22]>> Yes, exactly right.

[00:11:24]>> Exactly.

[00:11:24]Um that's that's also a cool process.

[00:11:27]So, how long do they ferment?

[00:11:29]>> Couple weeks. So, it depends on how quickly the fermentation goes. Again, nature is going to do what nature is going to do, and there's only so much control that I can put into that process. Temperature-wise, I could maybe add yeast and kind of >> Is there anything supernatural you do that you feel influences that process?

[00:11:49]Like, do you have monks come in pray over the vats? [laughter] >> I mean, I like >> Do you Do you sit there and and meditate? Like, is there is there something supernatural >> the vineyard. I definitely commune with what the energy is in the vineyard and what that land is speaking to the intention of this fruit and these vines.

[00:12:11]Um the home estate at DeLoch is organic and biodynamic, so there are more connections to the cycles of life and the cycles of the celestial system out there um that really touch into um energy and intention beyond what we can know and fully understand. And um that translates into fermentation and the process itself because all of those yeasts and bacteria and all of the hundreds and hundreds of chemical compounds that go into what makes a great wine can never be fully quantified. You can never know exactly what those are. You are just you're guiding it. You're sensing it. You need to step back half a step from only what the chemistry is telling you and let your intuition guide.

[00:13:00]>> That is my question. So, how much of it is intuition and how much of it is rationality? And, you know, uh a degree and a basis in science, like, at what point does each take the lead?

[00:13:17]>> It is that balancing act, right? So, you know, >> Because it sounds like, just the way you're describing it, the grapes, the yeast, the sugar, the bacteria, they all have their own intelligence. So, how do you How do you let your rationality be your guide as opposed to your intuition and when do you go back and forth?

[00:13:40]>> I I mean, I ultimately, if I am dealing with wonderful fruit from a great site, my job is not to up. Like, I need to let that translate into the wine.

[00:13:53]That said, I look at the different parameters that I'm presented with. Each vintage is going to have its unique impression on that fruit. The acid balance is going to be different, the sugar level, there might be a kind of a strange different microbial balance that's going on again that we can't necessarily quantify, but there are clues. Sensory clues, something smells a little funny, the fermentate the rate of the fermentation, how fast is it fermenting or a little bit slower, and you're flexing with that all the time.

[00:14:21]Again, I'm a mom. Like, it's like, all right, it's not quite going my way.

[00:14:25]Yeah, yeah, and you're you're flexing and making decisions along the way to accommodate that, maybe put some boundaries on, but also just do you have trust in the process, too? You're like, okay, this isn't a red flag. This is just >> Has >> And we're embracing it and we are going to support that.

[00:14:46]>> Has becoming a mom made you a better winemaker and how so?

[00:14:49]>> Oh, I think so. I think I just touched on that.

[00:14:51]>> Yes.

[00:14:52]>> You know, it is It is trusting that your your baby grapes, that they have They have a path, and that path will be optimized with support, with these with certain boundaries, with certain um atmospheric and environmental support.

[00:15:17]So, for me as a winemaker, that's choosing a a vessel, choosing the oak, choosing um the temperature and and things like that. And if there are further little tweaks we kind of need to bolster, blending, um these are ways that I'm making decision. Um but there's also ways where you just need to kind of step back a little and you like let it ride a little. This is you know, I the things are not the wheels aren't coming off.

[00:15:43]>> Yeah.

[00:15:43]>> I know. Things are things are going to be okay. We'll check in in a month. And I think that creates more complexity in wine, too. And so as a parent, too, my kid's only six, you know, I haven't dealt with like preteen and everything that comes after that, but you know, you you have to have some faith and trust in that that individual, you know, you know, is part of you and you are responsible for that, but you are also there to see it on its way.

[00:16:13]>> Yeah. It's bittersweet. It is the bittersweet journey of motherhood, and it has to be the same for a winemaker.

[00:16:19]>> It is. I even I I talked about the elevage of wines and and nurturing even before I had kids, so >> Yeah.

[00:16:26]>> but >> It was preparing you.

[00:16:28]>> Yeah.

[00:16:29]It definitely was. And you know what?

[00:16:31]Having a glass of red wine after a long day with your >> Yeah.

[00:16:35]It's really nice.

[00:16:36]>> You know what I'm talking about.

[00:16:37]>> Yeah, that mommy [laughter] juice.

[00:16:38]>> Have a little glass of wine, it's going to smooth it all over.

[00:16:41]>> Do you have wine with dinner when you go to restaurants that is not your own?

[00:16:46]>> Oh, definitely. Oh.

[00:16:48]>> Are there ever wines where you almost get mad and say to yourself like man, I wish I had bottled that.

[00:16:54]>> [laughter] >> I am continually impressed and inspired by other wines, other wine styles, especially from different regions with fruit that I've never worked with. You know, I I could I could never grow that style of fruit in my particular region cuz the terroir influence is different.

[00:17:12]You know, I I am fascinated by how winemakers are capturing um, really delicate intense delicate and intense dichotomy.

[00:17:24]Very unique aromatics in particular for like say certain white styles that are, um, beyond what I've ever been able to coax out of the ground.

[00:17:34]>> where is somewhere unique that you would either like to travel just to consume their white wines or that people should investigate where the terroir is so unique that you you have not found it replicated anywhere else.

[00:17:48]>> Oh, I mean every region is so unique. I mean whether it's Pinot Grigio, Oregon, um, I just returned from France and I'd love to explore more Pinot Blanc. I'd love to go to Spain and explore Albarino. I mean there it's it's it's endless.

[00:18:01]>> Yeah.

[00:18:01]>> Um, but let's let's go to Germany and South Africa.

[00:18:04]>> Oh, yes.

[00:18:05]>> Mhm.

[00:18:06]>> I've been on Santorini where they >> I know. I've never been there but I'd love to.

[00:18:10]>> white wine in like little liter bottles.

[00:18:12]Like they recycle their bottles in little lady selling. It's pretty cute.

[00:18:16]>> That is one of the most old school I haven't been to Santorini. I have been to some Greek Islands. Um, but my understanding is that Assyrtiko on that island is one of the only vines that's still own rooted. That means that it is like one of the most durable, um, vine varietals in the world. Like it's just it's own it's own energy. Anyway.

[00:18:40]>> It's staying there. It's studied the ancient Greeks and it's sticking with it.

[00:18:43]>> Absolutely.

[00:18:44]>> Yeah.

[00:18:44]>> [laughter] >> I like that. All right. So, can we, uh, I'm I'm trying to Can we try the Pinot Noir?

[00:18:49]>> Yes, we can. I love Pinot Noir.

[00:18:51]>> That's my favorite.

[00:18:52]>> Mhm.

[00:18:53]>> Okay, just slam it.

[00:18:53]>> I'm going to slam it.

[00:18:54]>> go.

[00:18:55]>> Mhm.

[00:18:57]Mhm.

[00:18:59]>> It's afternoon.

[00:18:59]>> That's right.

[00:19:00]>> Although, you know, I taste wine at all hours of the day.

[00:19:04]>> Well, it's it's your job through 50 >> Zinfandel barrels.

[00:19:08]>> be it would be a professional malpractice if you weren't.

[00:19:10]>> We are going to do it. We're going to make it work. So look at that color difference.

[00:19:14]>> Wow, and it's so much lighter.

[00:19:15]>> So Pinot Noir is always going to be lighter than varieties like Cabernet Sauvignon. The the phenolic content, the tannins and the color is less.

[00:19:29]Um but Pinot Noir is going to have more earthy, delicate, kind of brighter strawberry, red fruit driven style.

[00:19:37]>> And you can you can have this with a lot of the things that naturally sprout out of Oregon, like salmon and Dungeness crab.

[00:19:45]>> And mushrooms. So anything that has a mushroom base is also a very very good pair for Pinot Noir.

[00:19:52]>> Oh, that's lovely.

[00:19:54]Totally different.

[00:19:55]>> Mhm.

[00:19:56]>> It's not as berrylicious.

[00:19:58]>> [laughter] >> But I love it. It is it is smooth and gentle.

[00:20:01]>> Mhm.

[00:20:02]>> And it it wants to hold your hand and be with you.

[00:20:04]>> It's caressing. It just caresses your little collarbone. So it feels nice.

[00:20:08]It's like a gentle hug.

[00:20:09]>> Yeah.

[00:20:10]>> Um Pinot Noir tends to have a bit more acid presence, too.

[00:20:14]Which is an elevated pairing with food.

[00:20:17]You know, it makes your mouth water a little bit more.

[00:20:19]>> Yeah. And it that's it makes everything so much more appetizing. That's why wine pairings are critical. That's why you have to go to the Fox News wine shop and you have to watch Wine Nation. You have to enjoy all of these things, order a few bottles, pick a few things out, and then, you know, if if you want to try some more, have at it. They These are so incredible. Like the design on these bottles, you got your friend Abe Lincoln. He's just waiting for you to have a little Pinot. You've got your Heritage Red with General Washington.

[00:20:50]And of course is that Patrick Henry?

[00:20:52]>> Uh Paul Revere?

[00:20:54]>> That's exactly who that is.

[00:20:56]>> This is the Revolution Cab from Napa Valley.

[00:20:58]>> It is a revolutionary cab and Katie Carter made that herself with her own hands. She she walked the vineyard, she she travest the hills, that's not a word, and with her her mind and her heart and her intuition, that bottle was made for you.

[00:21:17]Cheers to you, Katie. Your expertise and the incredible joy and knowledge that you put into making all the wines that you do.

[00:21:25]>> Thank you.

[00:21:25]>> It's awesome.

[00:21:26]>> Yes, it's awesome to share.

[00:21:28]>> That's right. So, go uncork a bottle on us. This has been Kennedy Saves the World along with Katie Carter. I'm Kennedy.

[00:21:34]>> [music] [music] >> Listen ad-free with a Fox News Podcast Plus subscription on Apple Podcast and Amazon Prime members can listen to this show ad-free on the Amazon Music app.

[00:21:49]Oh, go ahead and leave me a review while you're there. I'd love to hear what you have to say. [music] You've been listening to Kennedy Saves the World on the Fox News Podcast Network.