The Beat With Ari Melber 5/7/2026 | MSNBC Breaking News Today May 7, 2026

Added: 2026-05-14

[00:00:00]Tonight, we're reporting on Americans revoling against Trump over these ongoing high prices as he craters to his lowest approval ever amid the war and the hypers sensitive woes of FBI chief Cash Patel. He's turned out to be really probably the largest snowflake in the whole administration as he takes drastic steps to attack criticism, which actually just tends to be part of the job when you run the FBI. So, we have that story coming up later. and Barack Obama making waves with his star turn on Coar. You're going to see some of that here by the end of the hour. It was of interest to many. You'll hear exactly what he said. But our top story starts right here with that Trump official caught lying about his visit to Epstein Island. You have Epste in the foreground and the gentleman in blue behind him.

[00:00:52]Howard Lutnik back in the hot seat today. Congress grilling the commerce secretary about those Epstein links and his Epstein lies. He has been forced to address a lot of it after what was a very unusual law that no one at the time expected to come out, but it did. We lived through that. And that law forced out evidence, including the photograph on your TV screen or your YouTube or your your phone, however you're watching us, but wherever you're watching us, that evidence is on your screen. That's a photograph that they never thought would come out. They never wanted it to come out. It was only the huge unusual pressure that made it come out and contradicted this Trump officials claims. We now know Lutnik was named over 200 times in the Epstein files.

[00:01:37]Those are the ones we've seen, including the emails arranging the very island visit that we just showed you. His assistant relayed, "It was nice seeing people there." Those long secret emails from Lutnik and his team and other Trump allies like Elon Musk have served to publicly shred those mend past denials.

[00:01:55]And so even by the low standards in DC today, it was too much as we showed you in our beat case timeline which started with the missing video and Dellay Maxwell but ultimately moved on to include over on the right Mr. Musk and Mr. Lutnik and Lutnik's blackmail claims, which I'll mention in a moment. All of that came out only because the new evidence. And while Trump and his cabinet would like those past evidence dumps to be the end of it, some in Congress have pressed on, which leads us to this scene you have today.

[00:02:33]Mr. Lutnick there being escorted in for private testimony before the House Oversight Committee. And we'll tell you what we're learning about that. But before I go any further, some might wonder, well, how is Jeffrey Epstein back in the news tonight, months after the files came out amid this war and the gas crunch and other big news developments? Donald Trump certainly doesn't want this to be the top story again.

[00:02:59]And part of the answer has been something that is not only unusual, but really cuts against the narratives that we hear so much. There's a lot of simple narratives out there. Some of them are true. When you hear the narrative that Wall Street and big business and big money controls too much of your government, no matter which party's in charge, that's kind of a a macro narrative, I would say, that has a lot of evidence of truth behind it. But there are other narratives that simplify and sand things down, like the idea that everyone in Congress is on the take, nobody's doing anything.

[00:03:29]That's actually not the case. It's a little more nuanced. And so I have the men you see up on your screen because they are part of a bipartisan push to follow the leads from those Epstein files that Congress forced out. You can get the docs and everyone can have their day reading about it, but if that's all it was, then that's not really a lot of accountability. It's certainly not a lot of actual investigative information to come out if you just drop it all. And yet, Democrat Roana, Republican James Comr, have pushed to follow up on those documents to use the actual powers of Congress, this co-equal branch, even and perhaps especially when Donald Trump would rather they didn't.

[00:04:11]Now, there are still differences between those men and the parties, including about which interviews are prioritized, taped, and broadcast.

[00:04:18]But let's be clear, some members, including some Republicans, are still staying on this issue, which is why it's back in the news tonight with new testimony, even if the White House wishes it worked. This is coming over Trump's objections and over the objections, frankly, of a lot of DC insiders, including some Democratic figures like the former Treasury Secretary Larry Summers, who's been ousted from his post. He was largely a kind of a centrist Democrat in several administrations.

[00:04:44]those type of elites and of course a lot of the Trump officials would like to just wind this down. Well, it's not winding down tonight on Capitol Hill.

[00:04:53]And pressing Lutnik is actually key given that we also know that Trump's DOJ dropped the ball on things that Lutnik was saying in public. He was sounding off about how Epste, his former neighbor, might use videos or quote blackmail against government officials.

[00:05:10]And if that's true, it would mean against fellow Trump officials and of Trump officials in the first term who of course were dealing with Epstein as a defendant. Now that pitted Lutnik against people like then AG Bondi who had claimed there was never any blackmail and she'll be up for testimony soon. There's also news on that tonight.

[00:05:28]But here's the context of that past Lutnik claim.

[00:05:34]>> This guy was the greatest black mailer ever. I assume way back when >> Mhm. They traded those videos in exchange for him getting that 18month sentence which allowed him to have visits. It must have been a trade.

[00:05:50]>> So my assumption not I have no knowledge.

[00:05:53]>> Mhm.

[00:05:53]>> But my assumption is there was a trade for the videos because there were people on those videos.

[00:06:01]There's a lot going on in there. But at bottom at its core claim, and we're not reporting that is true or fact check tonight. were reporting that a top Trump official said it at one point in time, but what he alleges is a type of government wrongdoing, possible crime, if it includes blackmail or trade in government services. I mean, people could go to jail for that. And he's referencing a deal that was struck by a later Trump official, Alex Aosta.

[00:06:27]So again, the allegations of blackmail and dirty dealing to protect Epstein over alleged videos is coming from inside the Trump cabinet.

[00:06:36]Now, that's just where we started. I told you I'd update you on what's happening. Here are the reports from inside Lutnik session today. There was a suggestion that he now is backpedaling, that he only met with his former neighbor Epste three times total, that he didn't see him with young women, and yet he at the time felt unsettled to be invited to Epstein's island, but he went, as we showed you. Lawmakers noting this is a changing story at best.

[00:07:01]Democrats suggesting Republicans wanted to avoid testimony video of what they would expect to be a tough interview for the Trump cabinet.

[00:07:11]>> Well, now we know why that interview was not videotaped.

[00:07:16]Uh if Donald Trump had seen the video transcript, he would have fired Howard Lutnik. Uh it was really embarrassing.

[00:07:26]It it was just contortions and lies and no acknowledgement that he misled the American public.

[00:07:34]>> The top Republican on the panel, which is the counterpart there of Mr. Connor, added that Lutnik was not 100% truthful about that key point of whether you visit the island. And that's not like a minor thing like I didn't remember whether it was coffee or lunch. If you're not 100% truthful about going to Epstein Island with everything we know now, and you lie about it in public while you're working in the federal government, that is a big deal. Now, like others caught up in the Epstein saga, it stokes the larger question, and I'm not trying to be unfair. It does stoke the question, why did you lie about going to the island? Why continue the problem for years? Was there a reason? Maybe there was no reason and he's just a bad liar. still a problem to lie while you're serving the federal government. But maybe, and this would have to be looked into, maybe there was a reason because that's the whole thing.

[00:08:26]Lick lied about this for so long and didn't face consequences within the Trump administration.

[00:08:33]>> We'll let the American people judge whether the credibility was damaged or not. At at the end of the day, I haven't seen wrongdoing in the email correspondents, but he he wasn't uh 100% truthful with whether he or not he had been on the island.

[00:08:50]>> He was not 100% truthful. That's the Republican side there. And again, as I said, count counter to some of the narratives that were told, whatever you think of how Republicans or Donald Trump has handled the Epstein issue, the voice you just heard is of a top Republican who did push to get this testimony and is saying straight up you got Trump officials still being not 100% truthful, which might be their sort of politically sanitized or PC version of saying he's lying. Now, I also want to be clear. It is true that the authorities have not suggested criminal wrongdoing by Lutnik.

[00:09:23]Done. Cash that out as the current state of play about the authorities.

[00:09:28]But a top official lying about his own personal dealings with this deceased sex trafficker is a type of professional wrongdoing in office. It's exactly what the Senate vets when advising and consenting to nominees under our Constitution. Are they competent? Are they truthful? Will they uphold the Constitution? Will they lie to the public or the government about matters of import? Not lunch or coffee, but important matters as this individual did while you paid his salary with your tax dollars, which might have been better spent on your gas. This is very recent. We're not drudging up just the old thing. If you had just the old thing and you said, "Oh, that was a mistake. Didn't know about it then. Let me be honest. Let me be helpful to everyone looking for the truth, including the survivors. That might be a very different response. That's not what happened. Lutnik was being compensated by tax dollars. He's working for a party which claimed and ran in 2024 on getting to the bottom of the Epstein crime spree, not hiring and then maintaining officials like Mr. Lutnik, who still has Donald Trump's backing, to lie to the public and misrepresent Epstein evidence that was inside the DOJ's possession to obiscate its own supposed probe. Because if the government is trying to get to the bottom of whether there was blackmail or other misconduct in the past sweetheart deal that Epstein got, it's a problem if its current officials are lying about said evidence.

[00:11:01]Here's some of the contradiction of his own personal history. Lutnik going to the island and his dealings with Epstein which both members of the committee on the left and the right, both parties mentioned with regard to his lack of veracity today.

[00:11:19]I was never in the room with him socially, for business, or even philanthropy. If that guy was there, I wasn't going cuz he's gross. I did have lunch with him as I was on a boat going across on a family vacation. My wife was with me as were my four children. We had lunch on the island. That is true.

[00:11:46]That is true. So he was lying. He lied in the interview and told the truth under oath. And for anyone who gets cynical and says they get away with everything, turns out with a lot of these folks, you put them under oath and they tell the truth rather than expose themselves to criminal prosecution, I don't think Mr. Lutnik is worried about this DOJ, which had his evidence and didn't ever publicize it until the law made them. I don't think he's worried about this DOJ charging him for lying about that to Congress. He must be worried that things could change real soon.

[00:12:16]Now, context. In other administrations, in both parties, cabinet officials have been removed for less than the lies about the sex trafficker that I just showed you that Mr. Lutnik lied about.

[00:12:28]Now, there are calls for Lutnik's removal. Others have been ousted from positions based on their ties to Epstein and other alleged misconduct or misleading statements. Again, not everyone here is necessarily facing any allegation of criminal wrongdoing, but we have meticulously shown that they've been ousted from jobs or face civil subpoenas. Testimony demanded a type of accountability that Lutnik has not faced as of tonight. Now, some Trump allies claimed that turning the story away from Epstein over the last few weeks, if you notice, the story's not been front burner the last few weeks, that turning it from Epstein to anything anything would help Trump. remember that? I'm sure you've heard about that. But that hasn't actually been the case if the new thing is this costly flailing war.

[00:13:16]And so for people who inhabit the MAGA media discourse, which has proven to be influential on the right and part of the center, keep in mind there's been a series of Trump criticisms from major MAGA voices who have been supportive of Trump for years. And it really picked up steam late last year around Epstein and has continued up through this week. And it includes the objections to what are seen as both Trump's failures and lies about both Epstein and Iran.

[00:13:46]>> How come you redact some people and you don't redact other people?

[00:13:50]>> Like what is this? This is not good.

[00:13:52]None of this is good for this administration. It looks terrible.

[00:13:56]>> It's the way they've handled the scandal has been so bad.

[00:14:00]>> Completely agree it. This is self-inflicted. The current DOJ under Pam Bondi is covering up crimes, very serious crimes.

[00:14:07]>> It looks terrible. It looks terrible for Trump when he was saying that none of this was real. This is all a hoax. This is not a hoax.

[00:14:15]>> There is something there and it's being covered up and the president blessed it.

[00:14:24]>> There's something there. And this is part of the cratering of Trump. It's not like the no kings movement and the resistance or the immigration uh opponents, the ICE opponents have changed Trump's trajectory over the past couple weeks.

[00:14:40]It is a confilration that started with Epste that continues with Iran and today is back with the lies around Epstein and Trump on Capitol Hill. Our guests tonight are lawyer Nancy Erica Smith and legal writer Emily Baslon. Nancy, your thoughts? My thoughts are again we had a triggering day for the survivors and and the victims. Not everybody survived.

[00:15:01]Epstein uh Virginia Gofrey did not. Um it's really triggering that these very powerful people keep lying and lying and lying and there's no consequences.

[00:15:12]People as close to the president as you can get in his cabinet. And it's important to note that Epstein plead guilty to trafficking a minor for prostitution in 2008. Lutnik met with him at his house in 2011. The the island 2012 went into business with him.

[00:15:33]Co-investors 2013 2015 Lutnik and this is all in the files invited Epstein to a political fundraiser. 2017, Epstein gave $50,000 to a dinner honoring Lutnik. He forgot all that. That's not possible. So, not only is he a liar, he has been hanging out with a convicted pedophile since 2008. He was grossed out in 2005. What a liar.

[00:16:03]>> Is this is this the kind of professional wrongdoing that should lead to his removal from the cabinet?

[00:16:08]>> Absolutely. But this is the Trump Epstein cabinet. You know, RFK was on the flight. Uh Dr. Oz was invited Epstein to a Valentine's party eight years after he plead guilty. Acasta, you know, covered up. He was Trump's labor secretary. Bannon got Christmas presents in 2018 and 19 from Epstein. I mean, this is a a close-knit group of people who hung out with Epstein after he plead guilty. They knew he was con he was going to be convicted, but he plead guilty to soliciting a minor for prostitution. Who hangs out with somebody who's done that?

[00:16:46]>> And it went on for years and years and years and it kept going on. So, and I think it's really interesting that he that Letic brought up uh possible blackmail because one of the uh important emails is and there's a lot of emails where it looks like Epstein is going to blackmail people. He says it directly. I'm going to keep your secrets. But one about Trump is, you know, I've received lots of calls about Donald (arenthesis uh Mildafart, who is a Norwegian exgirlfriend of both Epstein and Trump. Beauty contest, Mara Lago, etc. But my answer is always, I have nothing to say." That sounds like somebody who's got something to say and is keeping it secret.

[00:17:30]>> Right. And with Lutnik, you can say, "Well, maybe he exaggerated for his own ends."

[00:17:35]But then why not clean it up and explain it? And why did you think this was something to say? The fact that he pulled out of the air this blackmail thing and then you're saying years later evidence shows that that's how Epstealked. But if you weren't on those emails, how would you know that? And so again, it's it's a pile of questions.

[00:17:53]Emily, your thoughts tonight um and your view of why this has roared back on Capitol Hill today?

[00:17:59]>> I mean, I'm struck by a similar question to the one you asked. Why not just admit it and apologize given that the pictures exist? The footage of him pretending to distance himself, you know, with lots of kind of glee at sort of remarking on Epstein as gross like Nancy was saying.

[00:18:18]Why not just admit you were wrong and move on? Uh, is that the kind of lesson of Trumpism that you just don't apologize no matter what? Or is there more lurking here that somehow trying to whitewash this particular set of um allegations even with this visual proof just makes it not worth admitting to this part because then people will somehow find out about the rest of it.

[00:18:45]>> And Democratic lawmakers were were hammering this today. Uh take a look.

[00:18:51]>> Howard Lotik should resign. That was absolutely mindboggling what we just heard in the room. He was evasive, nervous, he was dishonest.

[00:19:00]>> Howard Lutnik is a pathological liar who is enabling the most egregious cover up in American history.

[00:19:07]>> He wasn't willing to be in a room with them, but he was perfectly okay with his wife and family being in a room with Epstein.

[00:19:15]>> He's lying.

[00:19:16]>> I think of all of the depositions that we have done so far, I find Howard Lutnik to be the least credible.

[00:19:24]Emily, we are speaking about this now months into it. When we began these type of discussions, very few top officials have been ousted from this cabinet. Uh, and the the mood was, oh, nobody's going. This is sort of the Trump 2.0 thing. Now, the AG's out and she was wounded by this issue among others.

[00:19:43]Although Trump would never publicly admit that as a rationale. Uh, DHS chief is out. other border officials are out partly over what Trump called, however cynically, the bad press of ICE, not the cruelty of ICE perhaps. Does that fit into the equation here where Trump would never admit this reason? Uh but it's not like Mr. Lutnik is so involved in commerce and things that are more vital than uh than those other folks portfolios.

[00:20:10]>> I mean, for sure it's bad politics. That seems clear. I imagine that it will depend whether this is one day of news or it continues. It's also kind of amazing that Lutnik, whose family has made so much money during the second Trump administration, is not also on the hook for that. But we know that he's been uh one of Trump's key negotiators in the Middle East and obviously the war in Iran is a you know giant issue for the administration. So, it's possible that Trump just doesn't feel like he can or wants to lose Lvik right now, even though this kind of um coverage is obviously bad for the administration.

[00:20:50]>> Uh and Nancy, in closing, I have less than a minute, but the the role of pressure here, even when it goes seems to get out of the headlines, as mentioned, some of the pressure continues to work.

[00:21:00]>> Yes. We have to keep the pressure on the victims, the survivors. They deserve it.

[00:21:05]We all deserve it. We deserve not to have people enabling pedophiles in the highest levels of our government.

[00:21:12]>> U Nancy Erica Smith and Emily as this as this issue stays alive in Washington.

[00:21:16]Thanks to both of you for your expertise. Uh coming up we have that FBI story and Obama's warning about an independent turn in new reporting from MS Now. Cash Patel's FBI is investigating what seemed to be fully lawful leaks to an Atlantic reporter who was reporting on Cash Patel, his conduct in office, and allegations regarding his conduct, behavior, and possible drinking. Now, that is standard for any public figure, especially an FBI chief. You are going to face criticism and coverage. Now, Patel, we should report, has denied any such allegations, including regarding the misuse of alcohol, and he's filing suit for defamation.

[00:21:58]The article, though, shows that the issue is not between Patel and the reporter, but rather the many, many sources cited.

[00:22:10]Our sources say that it's troubling on two fronts. One, there was no known disclosure of classified information in this Long Atlantic magazine article.

[00:22:19]They're even more troubled by what they say is a focus on the journalists, which is very unusual. There is a focus now on trying to figure out who Sarah's sources were, including and up to obtaining her phone records, potentially uh running her name through FBI databases, taking very intrusive steps.

[00:22:38]There are times where the government has legal authority to investigate classified leaks or the misuse of government information. and that is a focus on people inside government who might have broken the law.

[00:22:52]Right now, there's no public evidence of that kind of classified information even coming into this topic. And so, it appears to be that Mr. Patel has trouble handling criticism, that he is hyper sensitive. And if that's the case, that may affect how well he can do his job.

[00:23:06]Again, that's part of First Amendment protected discussion of his competence, his emotional baseline. Maybe he is too emotional and erratic to handle the type of scrutiny that comes with this job.

[00:23:15]Maybe he is, as they say in in MAGA land, a snowflake. But the bigger issue is how the FBI is, as the Atlantic puts it, making this attack on press freedom.

[00:23:26]And it's not a one-off. The DOJ, which works with the FBI on investigating and prosecuting cases, has repeatedly been caught abusing these powers to go after Trump's perceived opponents. That's include includes all the people you see on your screen who are from all types of backgrounds, including Republicans. What they have in common is that Trump doesn't like their First Amendment criticism. Pam Bondi was also reportedly ousted partly because she didn't get far enough on these failed installed cases because they usually lack legal merit.

[00:23:57]Now her acting replacement Todd Blanch is trying to show that he will go even farther. And so you have that alongside Patel who's upset about press coverage and criticism and attacks on the Southern Poverty Law Center, misuse of legal powers, a new Comey indictment.

[00:24:16]When you look at Comey, the trend is so pronounced, it actually got this fact check from Obama.

[00:24:24]people's lawyer. It's not the president's consigliary.

[00:24:29]>> Or worse than a consigliary, it's not the president's hatchet person who might be doing things that themselves are more illegal than the targets. We're going to get into all of this next.

[00:24:40]>> The nor the the idea is that the attorney general is the people's lawyer.

[00:24:45]It's not the president's conigiary.

[00:24:49]>> President Obama speaking out. Now we're joined by NYU history professor Ruth Bengad, author of Strong Man Mussolini to the present. Uh how do you view this contrast? None of these revenge cases have succeeded with a conviction. Uh but the new acting AG is going even harder uh than the old one.

[00:25:08]>> Well, yes, they're compelled to do that because um there for wannabe autocrats, there is no concept of judicial independence or impartiality.

[00:25:19]And the very purpose of government institutions such as the DOJ, it changes. It mutates under autocracy. You know, when um the pardon attorney M Ed Martin said, "We go after people, not crimes." That was very instructive because um the that for example, the judiciary uh is not about the rule of law anymore. It's about uh protecting the president and going after his enemies who have to become the enemies of the nation uh because there's no divide between the personal and the public, the public and the private in autocracy. So the very purpose and methods change uh when we have somebody like President Trump in power.

[00:26:06]>> Uh President Trump's been through this once before. He's keenly aware of the midterms. He wanted to abuse these powers to get a different economic outcome from the Fed. Uh again, that failed. He knows that failed. Uh but he's looking at what he sees as a shorter timeline. Um how does that figure it? And that there are practical constraints even if he wishes they they weren't. He seems to be planning around them and a possible loss.

[00:26:36]>> Yeah. But what what happens is the more desperate the more they realize that there's what I call autocratic backfire where uh they've done things that have alienated um the population the out you know the the bad outcomes of their policies start to manifest in daily life so popular discontent um you know rises and then the there's now splintering in MAGA they're upset about Epstein so autocrats never course correct they just barrel ahead even stronger So it's not surprising that they're becoming more um aggressive and the same with you know the FBI with Patel. Um again the purpose of the institution has to change. Now the FBI may still go after domestic threats but the criteria for those threats is changing. Now a journalist is a threat because the press the free press is always the enemy of autocrats and there are journalists sitting in prison in Turkey and in every autocracy around the world. So I'm not surprised that this is happening and they're going after a person, a journalist on what seems to be spirious grounds.

[00:27:45]>> We see also pockets of judicial uh sort of sanction, but that system moves very slowly. Um but there was a report this week of a judge who basically found that a lawyer was obviously withholding information and misleading in court on behalf of DOJ.

[00:28:03]Um, from what you could tell reading the the the court record, it sounded like someone who was in a tough spot. Um, and that Trump has put a lot of those folks in those spots. And so they were, I guess you could say, um, somewhat honest late about prior dishonesty and saying that was the bind they were in based on what DOJ and and the administration wanted them to do.

[00:28:26]Uh, and they've been referred for professional uh, professional punishment. I wonder where you think that fits in because someone listening might say okay Ari some random lawyer we haven't heard of like how about going to the top and yet the people in the middle are actually the ones carrying this out day by day and if judges and others have those sanctions and they are real you will have fewer people who are going to risk the what their whole career uh o over this >> yeah I mean you know there are always three levels to autocracy to make it work there are the grassroots um the people who cheer no matter what the people who are the thugs on the street.

[00:29:05]Then you have the cabinet officials. And by the way, ar often um certainly in fascist Italy, there were uh people who were chosen because they had um personal weaknesses um that were very evident and they became very hated by the population. But it meant that the leader puts people who are um you know challenged in their position or disqual or unqualified because they um they can be you know bought or they can be controlled more easily. But in the middle are all the bureaucrats.

[00:29:36]And now we've seen a lot of resistance, the legal resistance that we've seen with many Trump appointed judges turning back. They're either like slowing down the operation and the processes of this administration or turning them back. But um so that that middle tier, which is easy to forget about in our focus on cabinet officials, is actually really really important and we need to watch carefully even small things. as you say, there are moral dilemmas that people are living every day and we have to pay attention to this.

[00:30:07]>> Yeah. Uh all all fair points and again with some of that historical context.

[00:30:11]Ruth Bengat, thank you. I'll tell folks coming up we have the pressure on the war that is getting as unpopular as Vietnam and far sooner in its life cycle. and Barack Obama. He's back. He's talking economics, conspiracies, a little bit of MAGA, some clear references criticizing Trump that weren't using the T-word. We're going to show it all to you next and a lot more.

[00:30:36]Barack Obama on jobs and workers rights at a time when those are weaknesses for the Trump administration. This is a new coar interview. Americans mad at Trump over high prices. Today, a top Trump adviser said maybe it would be good.

[00:30:50]This is a huge gaff. If people have to rack up credit card debt to buy gas and the basics, just as Secretary Bessant said, uh, credit card spending is through the roof. They're spending more on gasoline, but they're spending more on everything else, too.

[00:31:09]Yes, they are spending more more than they have and more than gas costs because it's up 50% from a few months ago. You don't want an economy that forces people into credit card debt for the basics. Half of Americans say what they're making doesn't keep up with the Trump economy. This is one of his biggest broken vows today. The average gallon of gas is over 450.

[00:31:33]Everybody knows why the war. Trump is now backtracking on a plan that he said would help ships navigate the straight during this blockade blockade, excuse me. He said pause on an idea just a day after announcing it. There's conflicting reports about a memo that is designed to extend what has been a fragile ceasefire. Iran downplays that success, saying this is just a list of American wishes, what they want in the memo. This is a costly war. It grinds on. And against this backdrop, Trump is doing something that is wrong any time, which is why no other president has tried anything like it, but looks especially especially tough for his midterm chances because enriching yourself amidst the economy I just told you about is not good politics. The Air Force updating Trump's $400 million gift, some say bribe from cutter. Lawmakers say retrofitting the jet will cost a billion dollars. Again, this is a Trump personal thing and there's much more that they are grifting in their crypto plots.

[00:32:37]Estimates between a billion to4 billion depending on how you count it. Obama carefully avoids saying the word Trump, but he talks about what I mentioned that no president's ever tried to do this.

[00:32:50]And while technically president has a lot of power, so if you wanted to run a law firm or a consulting company out of the White House, there isn't a law that prevents it. But a side hustle is not exactly presidential has changed. Also a subtle Trump dig. This is interesting, a fun one, important one when you look at some of the comments the president made. And we have Jason Johnson on it next.

[00:33:20]speaking out in that coar appearance.

[00:33:21]Jason Johnson's here. Your your thoughts on uh what the great leader and communicator is conveying to us right now.

[00:33:29]>> Uh three big things I got from Ari. One, uh former President Obama still remains probably one of the best political interviews of a generation. Uh he is good at dropping wisdom. He is still witty. He is still engaging. I thought it was very very fascinating when he talked about uh you know his subtle ways of attacking Trump, right? He's like, "Hey, president shouldn't have side hustles." Which is great, right? We've been thinking for 20 years you can't knock the hustle. Apparently Obama can.

[00:33:54]And especially when it's talking about a president who's been using the White House to enrich himself. I also appreciated him talking >> anniversary reference. Everyone credit continue.

[00:34:05]>> Um, I also really liked what he said about Manny and saying the idea of political about speaking clearly.

[00:34:13]>> You're ahead of us. Can I play and then folks will get your your your thought.

[00:34:18]It was fantastic. It was fantastic. And and Ari, this is a lesson for Ken Martin and Chuck Schumer and Hakee Jeff and everybody else like that. Mandani's politics are way to the left of President Barack Obama. They're way to the left of former President Barack Obama, but he sees talent and he recognizes talent and he's embraced it.

[00:34:38]And that's what you can do if you want to be successful as a party. Everybody doesn't have to be ideologically aligned, but if you recognize someone is resonating with the public and resonating with voters, you got to let him cook. And and that's what he was sort of saying there.

[00:34:50]>> Feels like my big brother was Big's brother.

[00:34:55]>> But yes, you say game recognizes game and mom Donnie has has clash with Wall Street the last few weeks about both policy and style and it's a whole big rich debate and that's fine. But your point is that if Barack Obama, who is the most effective, winningest Democrat of our lives, um, can see some of the tools there, then maybe others can look for that too, even amid what can be good faith, you know, u economic disagreements. Uh, he also, again, and this is something Obama always does, and I remember there were years when people would get really annoyed with Obama's intramural constructive criticism and advice. I think the humility and the setbacks the last several years politically uh have changed that mood and there people are really actually a little more ready to listen. Um which again goes to like if you're talking to Phil Jackson and he's telling you you know here's what you got to do in the fourth quarter you you might want to listen even if you're like but I didn't do it that way and I'm offended and yada yada. So on on the Democratic front um he he was we we mentioned that word gobbledygook came up in the Mandani section and it came up again here. Take a listen.

[00:36:04]And I'm not going to ask you about the meta discourse implications of that blah blah. No, I'm going to say what do you think of what he said there.

[00:36:13]>> It's brilliant. And I love as a college professor, I love hearing a law professor say, "Stop talking like a law professor." If you're running for office, got to walk it like you're talking. That's that's how people connect. That's how people appreciate you. You could actually line up Donald Trump, Barack Obama, and and and Mom Donnie as as clear examples of how you speak to and galvanize the base, and those people could not be further apart from each other with Obama sort of taking up the middle. That's the best advice. I I'll tell you this, Ari, if if it was probably up to former President Obama, the the autopsy of 2024 will probably be released. He he has a level of humility about his own party and what they need to do that I think a lot of the current leadership doesn't have.

[00:36:54]Yeah, it's it's all well put. Politics sometimes is about making friends or Migos as you might as you might put it. Jason, good to see you. We're out of time.

[00:37:05]We'll be right back.